Religions > Atheism > #Dem Congressman visits Iraq, sees reality, decides US needs to STAY. Sorry, Lefties......
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Kurt Nicklas" |
| Date: |
20 Aug 2007 05:06:59 PM |
| Object: |
#Dem Congressman visits Iraq, sees reality, decides US needs to STAY. Sorry, Lefties...... |
Baird sees need for longer U.S. role in Iraq
Brad Shannon
The Olympian
August 17, 2007
http://www.theolympian.com/news/story/192500.html
U=2ES. Rep. Brian Baird said Thursday that his recent trip to Iraq
convinced him the military needs more time in the region, and that a
hasty pullout would cause chaos that helps Iran and harms U.S.
security.
"I believe that the decision to invade Iraq and the post-invasion
management of that country were among the largest foreign-policy
mistakes in the history of our nation. I voted against them, and I
still think they were the right votes," Baird said in a telephone
interview from Washington, D.C.
"But we're on the ground now. We have a responsibility to the Iraqi
people and a strategic interest in making this work."
Baird, a five-term Democrat, voted against President Bush ordering the
Iraq invasion - at a time when he was in a minority in Congress and at
risk of alienating voters. He returned late Tuesday from a trip that
included stops in Israel, Jordan and Iraq, where he met troops, U.S.
advisers and Iraqis, whose stories have convinced him that U.S. troops
must stay longer.
With Congress poised next month to look at U.S. progress in Iraq and a
vote looming on U.S. funding for the war, Baird said he's inclined to
seek a continued U.S. presence in Iraq beyond what many impatient
Americans want. He also expects Gen. David Petraeus, who oversees U.S.
troops in Iraq, to seek a redeployment of forces. "People may be
upset. I wish I didn't have to say this," Baird said. He added that
the United States needs to continue with its military troops surge "at
least into early next year, then engage in a gradual redeployment. ... I
know it's going to cost hundreds of American lives and hundreds of
billions of dollars."
It was Baird's fifth trip to the Middle East, and he conceded that
what he has learned has put him again in an unpopular position with
some voters. He no longer thinks partitioning Iraq into Sunni, Shiite
and Kurd sections is possible, for instance; no one he spoke to in
Israel, Jordan, Palestinian cities or Iraq liked the idea, he added.
Activists rallied Thursday at the state Capitol, saying they want
Baird, who represents the 3rd Congressional District, which includes
Olympia, to vote for withdrawing U.S. troops. But Baird said he
believes that to the extent Iraqis think the United States would
withdraw before bringing security to a functioning Iraqi government,
"that might contribute to the infighting and instability of the
government."
He also said the United States tore up Iraq with its invasion in 2003,
dismantling civil government and industries and tossing a half-million
people out of work, but that three years of U.S. help is not enough to
let Iraq rebuild.
Baird said he would not say this if he didn't believe two things:
=B7 "One, I think we're making real progress."
=B7 "Secondly, I think the consequences of pulling back precipitously
would be potentially catastrophic for the Iraqi people themselves, to
whom we have a tremendous responsibility ... and in the long run chaotic
for the region as a whole and for our own security."
Cheryl Crist of Olympia, who lost the Democratic primary against Baird
in 2004 running on an anti-war platform, said the military presence in
Iraq is adding to the problem.
"We do owe them something - reparations and help," Crist said of the
U=2ES. obligation to Iraqis. "But we are not good at delivering that
through the military."
.
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| User: "Chico Samooza" |
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| Title: Re: #Dem Congressman visits Iraq, sees reality, decides US needs to STAY. Sorry, Lefties...... |
20 Aug 2007 06:10:39 PM |
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"Kurt Nicklas" <nicklask@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:1187647619.874660.198820@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
LIAR!
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| User: "Spartakus" |
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| Title: Re: #Dem Congressman visits Iraq, sees reality, decides US needs to STAY. Sorry, Lefties...... |
20 Aug 2007 10:37:47 PM |
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Kurt Nicklas <nickl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Baird sees need for longer U.S. role in Iraq
Brad Shannon
The Olympian
August 17, 2007http://www.theolympian.com/news/story/192500.html
U.S. Rep. Brian Baird said Thursday that his recent trip to Iraq
convinced him the military needs more time in the region, and that
a hasty pullout would cause chaos that helps Iran and harms U.S.
security.
Did they let him go anywhere outside the Green Zone?
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: #Dem Congressman visits Iraq, sees reality, decides US needs to STAY. Sorry, Lefties...... |
21 Aug 2007 08:15:58 PM |
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On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 20:37:47 -0700, Spartakus <spartakus@my-deja.com>
wrote:
Did they let him go anywhere outside the Green Zone?
My company had visitors today. We had to dress nicely and make sure
our desks were neat and clean.
Something like a VIP's visit to Iraq. He gets to talk to the "right"
soldiers, he sees the "right" reports and he hears the "right"
evaluations. Then he comes home and, knowingly or not, shills for
Chimpy.
Take the chance of a US Representative getting killed by an IED? (Or
even seeing one go off?) Are you nuts?
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| User: "Mitchell Holman" |
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| Title: Re: #Dem Congressman visits Iraq, sees reality, decides US needs to STAY. Sorry, Lefties...... |
20 Aug 2007 05:26:54 PM |
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Kurt Nicklas <nicklask@bellsouth.net> wrote in
news:1187647619.874660.198820@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com:
Baird sees need for longer U.S. role in Iraq
Brad Shannon
The Olympian
August 17, 2007
http://www.theolympian.com/news/story/192500.html
U.S. Rep. Brian Baird said Thursday that his recent trip to Iraq
convinced him the military needs more time in the region, and that a
hasty pullout would cause chaos that helps Iran and harms U.S.
security.
"I believe that the decision to invade Iraq and the post-invasion
management of that country were among the largest foreign-policy
mistakes in the history of our nation. I voted against them, and I
still think they were the right votes," Baird said in a telephone
interview from Washington, D.C.
"But we're on the ground now. We have a responsibility to the Iraqi
people and a strategic interest in making this work."
Baird, a five-term Democrat, voted against President Bush ordering the
Iraq invasion - at a time when he was in a minority in Congress and at
risk of alienating voters. He returned late Tuesday from a trip that
included stops in Israel, Jordan and Iraq, where he met troops, U.S.
advisers and Iraqis, whose stories have convinced him that U.S. troops
must stay longer.
With Congress poised next month to look at U.S. progress in Iraq and a
vote looming on U.S. funding for the war, Baird said he's inclined to
seek a continued U.S. presence in Iraq beyond what many impatient
Americans want. He also expects Gen. David Petraeus, who oversees U.S.
troops in Iraq, to seek a redeployment of forces. "People may be
upset. I wish I didn't have to say this," Baird said. He added that
the United States needs to continue with its military troops surge "at
least into early next year, then engage in a gradual redeployment. ... I
know it's going to cost hundreds of American lives and hundreds of
billions of dollars."
It was Baird's fifth trip to the Middle East, and he conceded that
what he has learned has put him again in an unpopular position with
some voters. He no longer thinks partitioning Iraq into Sunni, Shiite
and Kurd sections is possible, for instance; no one he spoke to in
Israel, Jordan, Palestinian cities or Iraq liked the idea, he added.
Activists rallied Thursday at the state Capitol, saying they want
Baird, who represents the 3rd Congressional District, which includes
Olympia, to vote for withdrawing U.S. troops. But Baird said he
believes that to the extent Iraqis think the United States would
withdraw before bringing security to a functioning Iraqi government,
"that might contribute to the infighting and instability of the
government."
He also said the United States tore up Iraq with its invasion in 2003,
dismantling civil government and industries and tossing a half-million
people out of work, but that three years of U.S. help is not enough to
let Iraq rebuild.
Baird said he would not say this if he didn't believe two things:
· "One, I think we're making real progress."
· "Secondly, I think the consequences of pulling back precipitously
would be potentially catastrophic for the Iraqi people themselves, to
whom we have a tremendous responsibility ... and in the long run chaotic
for the region as a whole and for our own security."
Cheryl Crist of Olympia, who lost the Democratic primary against Baird
in 2004 running on an anti-war platform, said the military presence in
Iraq is adding to the problem.
"We do owe them something - reparations and help," Crist said of the
U.S. obligation to Iraqis. "But we are not good at delivering that
through the military."
Sen. Snowe to co-sponsor Iraq withdrawal bill.
According to CNN, Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-ME) has officially
signed on as a co-sponsor to legislation withdrawing troops
from Iraq by April 30, 2008. CNN’s Dana Bash reports:
Now this is significant because it makes it now just Olympia
Snowe, but Sen. Gordon Smith of Oregon, two Republicans who are
now going to vote with the Democrats on this. It is significant
in terms of the symbolism of it, in terms of the fact it is
indicative of what we have been seeing, the growing opposition
to the President and to his war strategy. Prior there have been
many, many votes on Iraq, many votes on the Democrats’ plans to
bring troops home, but Republicans simply haven’t voted that way.
… Olympia Snowe is saying she will.
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/07/11/sen-snowe-to-support-iraq-withdrawal-
bill/
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| User: "David Morgan \MAMS" |
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| Title: Re: #Dem Congressman visits Iraq, sees reality, decides US needs to STAY. Sorry, Lefties...... |
20 Aug 2007 05:41:35 PM |
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Kurt Nicklas <nicklask@bellsouth.net> wrote in
news:1187647619.874660.198820@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com:
U.S. Rep. Brian Baird said Thursday that his recent trip to Iraq
convinced him the military needs more time in the region, and that a
hasty pullout would cause chaos that helps Iran and harms U.S.
security.
I wonder what his initial bribe amount and his promised kickbacks are
from the Oil companies who 'convinced' him to say these things. The
Oil companies have to start lobbying the Democrats... the repugs are
all washed up.
Fix the corruption, people.... use alternative energy and put big Oil out
of the business of trying to run governments.
.
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| User: "Mitchell Holman" |
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| Title: Re: #Dem Congressman visits Iraq, sees reality, decides US needs to STAY. Sorry, Lefties...... |
20 Aug 2007 06:35:29 PM |
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"David Morgan \(MAMS\)" <findme@m-a-m-s.comC/Odm> wrote in news:zMoyi.3627
$iA.315@trnddc05:
Kurt Nicklas <nicklask@bellsouth.net> wrote in
news:1187647619.874660.198820@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com:
U.S. Rep. Brian Baird said Thursday that his recent trip to Iraq
convinced him the military needs more time in the region, and that a
hasty pullout would cause chaos that helps Iran and harms U.S.
security.
I wonder what his initial bribe amount and his promised kickbacks are
from the Oil companies who 'convinced' him to say these things. The
Oil companies have to start lobbying the Democrats... the repugs are
all washed up.
Fix the corruption, people.... use alternative energy and put big Oil
out
of the business of trying to run governments.
1) If we raise fuel efficiency standards in American cars by
one mile per gallon, in one year, we would save twice the
amount of oil that could be obtained from the Arctic National
Wildlife Refuge
2) Raising it by 2.7 mpg would save enough to eliminate all
the oil imports from Iraq and Kuwait combined
3)Raising it by 7.6 mpg would save enough to eliminate 100% of
our gulf oil imports into this country (Source: Environmental
Attorney Robert F. Kennedy Jr.)
http://www.hybridcars.com/oil-dependence.html
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: #Dem Congressman visits Iraq, sees reality, decides US needs to STAY. Sorry, Lefties...... |
20 Aug 2007 09:28:40 PM |
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On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 18:35:29 -0500, Mitchell Holman
<Noemailplease@comcast.com> wrote:
1) If we raise fuel efficiency standards in American cars by
one mile per gallon, in one year, we would save twice the
amount of oil that could be obtained from the Arctic National
Wildlife Refuge
2) Raising it by 2.7 mpg would save enough to eliminate all
the oil imports from Iraq and Kuwait combined
3)Raising it by 7.6 mpg would save enough to eliminate 100% of
our gulf oil imports into this country (Source: Environmental
Attorney Robert F. Kennedy Jr.)
In the past 12 months I've gotten rid of two cars that got 30mpg, and
now have 2 cars that get 40mpg. I've done my part.
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| User: "David Morgan \MAMS" |
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| Title: Re: #Dem Congressman visits Iraq, sees reality, decides US needs to STAY. Sorry, Lefties...... |
20 Aug 2007 10:12:46 PM |
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"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message news:tcjkc3l9ki5k0vvqlj9hf63ginvdn6s3tb@4ax.com...
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 18:35:29 -0500, Mitchell Holman
<Noemailplease@comcast.com> wrote:
1) If we raise fuel efficiency standards in American cars by
one mile per gallon, in one year, we would save twice the
amount of oil that could be obtained from the Arctic National
Wildlife Refuge
2) Raising it by 2.7 mpg would save enough to eliminate all
the oil imports from Iraq and Kuwait combined
3)Raising it by 7.6 mpg would save enough to eliminate 100% of
our gulf oil imports into this country (Source: Environmental
Attorney Robert F. Kennedy Jr.)
In the past 12 months I've gotten rid of two cars that got 30mpg, and
now have 2 cars that get 40mpg. I've done my part.
I don't think you done your part until you stop the oil companies from
price gouging, and the auto manufacturers from selling Hummers,
and the government from giving the buyers of 6000 pound vehicles
a $100,000.00 tax break for doing so and thus agreeing to continue
buying gasoline.
Although it's a step in the right direction, apparently consumers aren't
the biggest source of the problem. I hope the vehicles are safe.
Cheers,
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: #Dem Congressman visits Iraq, sees reality, decides US needs to STAY. Sorry, Lefties...... |
21 Aug 2007 07:39:40 AM |
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On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 03:12:46 GMT, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)"
<findme@m-a-m-s.comC/Odm> wrote:
I don't think you done your part until you stop the oil companies from
price gouging, and the auto manufacturers from selling Hummers,
and the government from giving the buyers of 6000 pound vehicles
a $100,000.00 tax break for doing so and thus agreeing to continue
buying gasoline.
All by myself? Okay, I'll get right on it.
Although it's a step in the right direction, apparently consumers aren't
the biggest source of the problem. I hope the vehicles are safe.
Motor vehicles are inherently unsafe, but the nut holding the wheel is
the most unsafe part.
.
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| User: "David Morgan \MAMS" |
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| Title: Re: #Dem Congressman visits Iraq, sees reality, decides US needs to STAY. Sorry, Lefties...... |
21 Aug 2007 11:27:28 AM |
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"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message news:e6nlc3lptngo587rm8fp5ntspuqpn09kgp@4ax.com...
On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 03:12:46 GMT, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)"
<findme@m-a-m-s.comC/Odm> wrote:
I don't think you've done your part until you stop the oil companies from
price gouging, and the auto manufacturers from selling Hummers,
and the government from giving the buyers of 6000 pound vehicles
a $100,000.00 tax break for doing so and thus agreeing to continue
buying gasoline.
All by myself? Okay, I'll get right on it.
;-)
Just wanted to make certain that you were aware that although you may
have compromised your safety and feel satisfied that you are helping
reduce consumption, there is still a lot left to do to end this addiction...
and ask that you not give up with just your car purchase, for that's the
easy part.
2005 documentary, "Who killed the electric car?" Available at Blockbuster
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: #Dem Congressman visits Iraq, sees reality, decides US needs to STAY. Sorry, Lefties...... |
21 Aug 2007 04:45:05 PM |
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On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 16:27:28 GMT, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)"
<findme@m-a-m-s.comC/Odm> wrote:
Just wanted to make certain that you were aware that although you may
have compromised your safety and feel satisfied that you are helping
reduce consumption, there is still a lot left to do to end this addiction...
and ask that you not give up with just your car purchase, for that's the
easy part.
If we all improved our gas mileage, switched to fluorescent lighting,
installed fans, etc., we'd be almost independent on foreign oil. If
the airlines stopped flying empty planes we'd save a lot more. If the
railroads stopped keeping diesel locos running all night in the
winter, we'd save still more.
But one person can only do so much. Those running around, driver
only, in vehicles that get under 20mpg, aren't helping.
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| User: "Backyard Astronomer" |
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| Title: Re: #Dem Congressman visits Iraq, sees reality, decides US needs to STAY. Sorry, Lefties...... |
21 Aug 2007 05:25:32 PM |
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On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 17:45:05 -0400, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 16:27:28 GMT, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)"
<findme@m-a-m-s.comC/Odm> wrote:
Just wanted to make certain that you were aware that although you may
have compromised your safety and feel satisfied that you are helping
reduce consumption, there is still a lot left to do to end this addiction...
and ask that you not give up with just your car purchase, for that's the
easy part.
If we all improved our gas mileage, switched to fluorescent lighting,
installed fans, etc., we'd be almost independent on foreign oil.
Haven't you heard? Rush Limbaugh says that hybrids don't work and that
fluorescent lights pollute our environment with mercury. Of course the
fact that hybrids do work and that most of the mercury pollution in
our environment come from coal fired power plants is besides the
point.
If
the airlines stopped flying empty planes we'd save a lot more. If the
railroads stopped keeping diesel locos running all night in the
winter, we'd save still more.
But one person can only do so much. Those running around, driver
only, in vehicles that get under 20mpg, aren't helping.
.
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| User: "Kurt Nicklas" |
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| Title: Re: #Dem Congressman visits Iraq, sees reality, decides US needs to STAY. Sorry, Lefties...... |
21 Aug 2007 05:38:18 PM |
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On Aug 20, 10:28 pm, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 18:35:29 -0500, Mitchell Holman
<Noemailple...@comcast.com> wrote:
1) If we raise fuel efficiency standards in American cars by
one mile per gallon, in one year, we would save twice the
amount of oil that could be obtained from the Arctic National
Wildlife Refuge
2) Raising it by 2.7 mpg would save enough to eliminate all
the oil imports from Iraq and Kuwait combined
3)Raising it by 7.6 mpg would save enough to eliminate 100% of
our gulf oil imports into this country (Source: Environmental
Attorney Robert F. Kennedy Jr.)
In the past 12 months I've gotten rid of two cars that got 30mpg, and
now have 2 cars that get 40mpg. I've done my part.
Wow.
Cut down the number of exhalations you make everyday by 1/3 and I'll
be impressed.
{snickers}
.
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| User: "Kurt Nicklas" |
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| Title: Re: #Dem Congressman visits Iraq, sees reality, decides US needs to STAY. Sorry, Lefties...... |
21 Aug 2007 05:34:49 AM |
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On Aug 20, 6:41 pm, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)" <fin...@m-a-m-s.comC/Odm>
wrote:
Kurt Nicklas <nickl...@bellsouth.net> wrote in
news:1187647619.874660.198820@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com:
U.S. Rep. Brian Baird said Thursday that his recent trip to Iraq
convinced him the military needs more time in the region, and that a
hasty pullout would cause chaos that helps Iran and harms U.S.
security.
I wonder what his initial bribe amount and his promised kickbacks are
from the Oil companies who 'convinced' him to say these things.
Provide just ONE PIECE of evidence to back up your pathological
allegation, Mamsy.
Put it right here -------------->>>>
Watch, folks. He'll run AWAY AGAIN.
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| User: "Kurt Nicklas" |
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| Title: Re: #Dem Congressman visits Iraq, sees reality, decides US needs to STAY. Sorry, Lefties...... |
20 Aug 2007 05:33:31 PM |
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On Aug 20, 6:26 pm, Mitchell Holman <Noemailple...@comcast.com> wrote:
Kurt Nicklas <nickl...@bellsouth.net> wrote innews:1187647619.874660.1988=
20@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com:
Baird sees need for longer U.S. role in Iraq
Brad Shannon
The Olympian
August 17, 2007
http://www.theolympian.com/news/story/192500.html
U.S. Rep. Brian Baird said Thursday that his recent trip to Iraq
convinced him the military needs more time in the region, and that a
hasty pullout would cause chaos that helps Iran and harms U.S.
security.
"I believe that the decision to invade Iraq and the post-invasion
management of that country were among the largest foreign-policy
mistakes in the history of our nation. I voted against them, and I
still think they were the right votes," Baird said in a telephone
interview from Washington, D.C.
"But we're on the ground now. We have a responsibility to the Iraqi
people and a strategic interest in making this work."
Baird, a five-term Democrat, voted against President Bush ordering the
Iraq invasion - at a time when he was in a minority in Congress and at
risk of alienating voters. He returned late Tuesday from a trip that
included stops in Israel, Jordan and Iraq, where he met troops, U.S.
advisers and Iraqis, whose stories have convinced him that U.S. troops
must stay longer.
With Congress poised next month to look at U.S. progress in Iraq and a
vote looming on U.S. funding for the war, Baird said he's inclined to
seek a continued U.S. presence in Iraq beyond what many impatient
Americans want. He also expects Gen. David Petraeus, who oversees U.S.
troops in Iraq, to seek a redeployment of forces. "People may be
upset. I wish I didn't have to say this," Baird said. He added that
the United States needs to continue with its military troops surge "at
least into early next year, then engage in a gradual redeployment. ... I
know it's going to cost hundreds of American lives and hundreds of
billions of dollars."
It was Baird's fifth trip to the Middle East, and he conceded that
what he has learned has put him again in an unpopular position with
some voters. He no longer thinks partitioning Iraq into Sunni, Shiite
and Kurd sections is possible, for instance; no one he spoke to in
Israel, Jordan, Palestinian cities or Iraq liked the idea, he added.
Activists rallied Thursday at the state Capitol, saying they want
Baird, who represents the 3rd Congressional District, which includes
Olympia, to vote for withdrawing U.S. troops. But Baird said he
believes that to the extent Iraqis think the United States would
withdraw before bringing security to a functioning Iraqi government,
"that might contribute to the infighting and instability of the
government."
He also said the United States tore up Iraq with its invasion in 2003,
dismantling civil government and industries and tossing a half-million
people out of work, but that three years of U.S. help is not enough to
let Iraq rebuild.
Baird said he would not say this if he didn't believe two things:
=B7 "One, I think we're making real progress."
=B7 "Secondly, I think the consequences of pulling back precipitously
would be potentially catastrophic for the Iraqi people themselves, to
whom we have a tremendous responsibility ... and in the long run chaotic
for the region as a whole and for our own security."
Cheryl Crist of Olympia, who lost the Democratic primary against Baird
in 2004 running on an anti-war platform, said the military presence in
Iraq is adding to the problem.
"We do owe them something - reparations and help," Crist said of the
U.S. obligation to Iraqis. "But we are not good at delivering that
through the military."
Sen. Snowe to co-sponsor Iraq withdrawal bill.
Many here are wondering what Sen. Snowe's bill has to do with Rep.
Baird's
enlightening trip to Iraq, Mitchel.
Can you explain your off-topic post to us?
--------------------------------------------------------
Bingo! The FBI is wanted by the FBI for the embassy
bombings in Africa. Period."
---------------- Mitchel Holloman, Jun 13, 2007
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: #Dem Congressman visits Iraq, sees reality, decides US needs to STAY. Sorry, Lefties...... |
20 Aug 2007 08:27:24 PM |
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Kurt Nicklas wrote:
Many here are wondering what Sen. Snowe's bill has to do with Rep.
Baird's enlightening trip to Iraq, Mitchel.
Many? Heck, I didn't think there were three people in the world over the age
of 5 that couldn't figure that out.
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| User: "Mitchell Holman" |
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| Title: Re: #Dem Congressman visits Iraq, sees reality, decides US needs to STAY. Sorry, Lefties...... |
20 Aug 2007 10:00:33 PM |
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"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:WOydnVb5congolfbnZ2dnUVZ_ournZ2d@giganews.com:
Kurt Nicklas wrote:
Many here are wondering what Sen. Snowe's bill has to do with Rep.
Baird's enlightening trip to Iraq, Mitchel.
Many? Heck, I didn't think there were three people in the world over the
age of 5 that couldn't figure that out.
When a volunteer from the Rightwingers Without A Clue
foundation come to your door, think of Nicklass and give
generously.
.
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| User: "Kurt Nicklas" |
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| Title: Re: #Dem Congressman visits Iraq, sees reality, decides US needs to STAY. Sorry, Lefties...... |
21 Aug 2007 05:32:43 AM |
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On Aug 20, 11:00 pm, Mitchell Holman <Noemailple...@comcast.com>
wrote:
Kurt Nicklas wrote:
Many here are wondering what Sen. Snowe's bill has to do with Rep.
Baird's enlightening trip to Iraq, Mitchel.
Many? Heck, I didn't think there were three people in the world over the
age of 5 that couldn't figure that out.
When a volunteer from the Rightwingers Without A Clue
foundation come to your door, think of Nicklass and give
generously.
You're a coward, Mitchel. You can't reply to my question so you run
away.
Apples.
Tree.
Falling.
.
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| User: "Chico Samooza" |
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| Title: Re: #Dem Congressman visits Iraq, sees reality, decides US needs to STAY. Sorry, Lefties...... |
21 Aug 2007 06:45:35 PM |
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"Kurt Nicklas" <nicklask@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:1187692363.718642.314590@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 20, 11:00 pm, Mitchell Holman <Noemailple...@comcast.com>
wrote:
Kurt Nicklas wrote:
Many here are wondering what Sen. Snowe's bill has to do with Rep.
Baird's enlightening trip to Iraq, Mitchel.
Many? Heck, I didn't think there were three people in the world over
the
age of 5 that couldn't figure that out.
When a volunteer from the Rightwingers Without A Clue
foundation come to your door, think of Nicklass and give
generously.
You're a coward, Mitchel. You can't reply to my question so you run
away.
i'm sure you've put your time in iraq mr young repub?.....lol..stay the
course..i bet you clowns repeat that battle cry in your sleep
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| User: "David Hartung" |
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| Title: Re: #Dem Congressman visits Iraq, sees reality, decides US needsto STAY. Sorry, Lefties...... |
21 Aug 2007 06:07:27 AM |
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Kurt Nicklas wrote:
On Aug 20, 11:00 pm, Mitchell Holman <Noemailple...@comcast.com>
wrote:
Kurt Nicklas wrote:
Many here are wondering what Sen. Snowe's bill has to do with Rep.
Baird's enlightening trip to Iraq, Mitchel.
Many? Heck, I didn't think there were three people in the world over the
age of 5 that couldn't figure that out.
When a volunteer from the Rightwingers Without A Clue
foundation come to your door, think of Nicklass and give
generously.
You're a coward, Mitchel. You can't reply to my question so you run
away.
Which is what he loves to accuse others of doing.
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| User: "Kurt Nicklas" |
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| Title: Re: #Dem Congressman visits Iraq, sees reality, decides US needs to STAY. Sorry, Lefties...... |
21 Aug 2007 06:30:20 AM |
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On Aug 21, 7:07 am, David Hartung <dhart...@quixnet.net> wrote:
Kurt Nicklas wrote:
On Aug 20, 11:00 pm, Mitchell Holman <Noemailple...@comcast.com>
wrote:
Kurt Nicklas wrote:
Many here are wondering what Sen. Snowe's bill has to do with Rep.
Baird's enlightening trip to Iraq, Mitchel.
Many? Heck, I didn't think there were three people in the world over the
age of 5 that couldn't figure that out.
When a volunteer from the Rightwingers Without A Clue
foundation come to your door, think of Nicklass and give
generously.
You're a coward, Mitchel. You can't reply to my question so you run
away.
Which is what he loves to accuse others of doing.
Exactly so.
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| User: "Wexford" |
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| Title: Re: #Dem Congressman visits Iraq, sees reality, decides US needs to STAY. Sorry, Lefties...... |
20 Aug 2007 10:57:50 PM |
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On Aug 20, 6:33 pm, Kurt Nicklas <nickl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
On Aug 20, 6:26 pm, Mitchell Holman <Noemailple...@comcast.com> wrote:
Kurt Nicklas <nickl...@bellsouth.net> wrote innews:1187647619.874660.19=
8820@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com:
Baird sees need for longer U.S. role in Iraq
Brad Shannon
The Olympian
August 17, 2007
http://www.theolympian.com/news/story/192500.html
U.S. Rep. Brian Baird said Thursday that his recent trip to Iraq
convinced him the military needs more time in the region, and that a
hasty pullout would cause chaos that helps Iran and harms U.S.
security.
"I believe that the decision to invade Iraq and the post-invasion
management of that country were among the largest foreign-policy
mistakes in the history of our nation. I voted against them, and I
still think they were the right votes," Baird said in a telephone
interview from Washington, D.C.
"But we're on the ground now. We have a responsibility to the Iraqi
people and a strategic interest in making this work."
Baird, a five-term Democrat, voted against President Bush ordering the
Iraq invasion - at a time when he was in a minority in Congress and at
risk of alienating voters. He returned late Tuesday from a trip that
included stops in Israel, Jordan and Iraq, where he met troops, U.S.
advisers and Iraqis, whose stories have convinced him that U.S. troops
must stay longer.
With Congress poised next month to look at U.S. progress in Iraq and a
vote looming on U.S. funding for the war, Baird said he's inclined to
seek a continued U.S. presence in Iraq beyond what many impatient
Americans want. He also expects Gen. David Petraeus, who oversees U.S.
troops in Iraq, to seek a redeployment of forces. "People may be
upset. I wish I didn't have to say this," Baird said. He added that
the United States needs to continue with its military troops surge "at
least into early next year, then engage in a gradual redeployment. ..=
.. I
know it's going to cost hundreds of American lives and hundreds of
billions of dollars."
It was Baird's fifth trip to the Middle East, and he conceded that
what he has learned has put him again in an unpopular position with
some voters. He no longer thinks partitioning Iraq into Sunni, Shiite
and Kurd sections is possible, for instance; no one he spoke to in
Israel, Jordan, Palestinian cities or Iraq liked the idea, he added.
Activists rallied Thursday at the state Capitol, saying they want
Baird, who represents the 3rd Congressional District, which includes
Olympia, to vote for withdrawing U.S. troops. But Baird said he
believes that to the extent Iraqis think the United States would
withdraw before bringing security to a functioning Iraqi government,
"that might contribute to the infighting and instability of the
government."
He also said the United States tore up Iraq with its invasion in 2003,
dismantling civil government and industries and tossing a half-million
people out of work, but that three years of U.S. help is not enough to
let Iraq rebuild.
Baird said he would not say this if he didn't believe two things:
=B7 "One, I think we're making real progress."
=B7 "Secondly, I think the consequences of pulling back precipitously
would be potentially catastrophic for the Iraqi people themselves, to
whom we have a tremendous responsibility ... and in the long run chao=
tic
for the region as a whole and for our own security."
Cheryl Crist of Olympia, who lost the Democratic primary against Baird
in 2004 running on an anti-war platform, said the military presence in
Iraq is adding to the problem.
"We do owe them something - reparations and help," Crist said of the
U.S. obligation to Iraqis. "But we are not good at delivering that
through the military."
Sen. Snowe to co-sponsor Iraq withdrawal bill.
Many here are wondering what Sen. Snowe's bill has to do with Rep.
Baird's
enlightening trip to Iraq, Mitchel.
Can you explain your off-topic post to us?
--------------------------------------------------------
Bingo! The FBI is wanted by the FBI for the embassy
bombings in Africa. Period."
---------------- Mitchel Holloman, Jun 13, 2007- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Kurt, old man, there's nothing here to warm a Rightard's heart. The
Congressman is condemning the stupidity of the Bush admnistration --
the people you love and support. His grudging complaint, that we may
have to stay longer so that the place won't turn to crap, is no
compliment to you and yours. Moron.
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| User: "Tim McGaughy" |
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| Title: Re: #Dem Congressman visits Iraq, sees reality, decides US needsto STAY. Sorry, Lefties...... |
25 Aug 2007 03:31:47 PM |
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in article 1187649211.915911.26460@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com, Kurt Nicklas
at wrote on 8/20/07 5:33 PM:
Sen. Snowe to co-sponsor Iraq withdrawal bill.
Many here are wondering what Sen. Snowe's bill has to do with Rep.
Baird's
enlightening trip to Iraq, Mitchel.
You got mice in your pocket?
Can you explain your off-topic post to us?
I won't claim to speak for him, but I suspect he was pointing out to you
that for every democrat you can come up with that wants to stay, he can find
you two republicans that want us to leave.
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| User: "Dan Clore" |
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| Title: Re: #Dem Congressman visits Iraq, sees reality, decides US needsto STAY. Sorry, Lefties...... |
21 Aug 2007 07:25:49 AM |
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Kurt Nicklas wrote:
Baird sees need for longer U.S. role in Iraq
Brad Shannon
The Olympian
August 17, 2007
http://www.theolympian.com/news/story/192500.html
U.S. Rep. Brian Baird said Thursday that his recent trip to Iraq
convinced him the military needs more time in the region, and that a
hasty pullout would cause chaos that helps Iran and harms U.S.
security.
"I believe that the decision to invade Iraq and the post-invasion
management of that country were among the largest foreign-policy
mistakes in the history of our nation. I voted against them, and I
still think they were the right votes," Baird said in a telephone
interview from Washington, D.C.
"But we're on the ground now. We have a responsibility to the Iraqi
people and a strategic interest in making this work."
Compare this opinion with the opinion of the Iraqi people, for example
the Iraq Freedom Congress:
http://www.ifcongress.com/English/index.htm
Note:
The Iraq Freedom Congress is a libertarian, secularist, non-violent,
democratic, and progressive group that opposes Ba'athism, Islamism, and
nationalism -- as well as the US invasion/occupation.
The IFC has organized a self-defence Safety Force that patrols
neighborhoods in Baghdad with a population of 5,000. They have reduced
sectarian killings in those neighborhoods to zero. However, far from
supporting them in this effort, US forces assassinated the head of this
Safety Force.
--
Dan Clore
My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
http://amazon.com/o/ASIN/1587154838/ref=nosim/thedanclorenecro
Lord Weÿrdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/clorebeast/
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
immarcescible purple of poetry before the color-blind.
-- Clark Ashton Smith, "Epigrams and Apothegms"
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| User: "*Anarcissie*" |
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| Title: Re: #Dem Congressman visits Iraq, sees reality, decides US needs to STAY. Sorry, Lefties...... |
21 Aug 2007 10:56:34 AM |
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On Aug 21, 8:25 am, Dan Clore <cl...@columbia-center.org> wrote:
Kurt Nicklas wrote:
Baird sees need for longer U.S. role in Iraq
Brad Shannon
The Olympian
August 17, 2007
http://www.theolympian.com/news/story/192500.html
U.S. Rep. Brian Baird said Thursday that his recent trip to Iraq
convinced him the military needs more time in the region, and that a
hasty pullout would cause chaos that helps Iran and harms U.S.
security.
"I believe that the decision to invade Iraq and the post-invasion
management of that country were among the largest foreign-policy
mistakes in the history of our nation. I voted against them, and I
still think they were the right votes," Baird said in a telephone
interview from Washington, D.C.
"But we're on the ground now. We have a responsibility to the Iraqi
people and a strategic interest in making this work."
Compare this opinion with the opinion of the Iraqi people, for example
the Iraq Freedom Congress:
http://www.ifcongress.com/English/index.htm
Note:
The Iraq Freedom Congress is a libertarian, secularist, non-violent,
democratic, and progressive group that opposes Ba'athism, Islamism, and
nationalism -- as well as the US invasion/occupation.
The IFC has organized a self-defence Safety Force that patrols
neighborhoods in Baghdad with a population of 5,000. They have reduced
sectarian killings in those neighborhoods to zero. However, far from
supporting them in this effort, US forces assassinated the head of this
Safety Force.
I imagine at this point Iraq is such an unmitigated
disaster (as was predicted by anti-war people
before the war) that many people are just flipping
coins as to whether worse results will follow
staying or leaving. There is no way of telling
what will happen, except that it will almost
certainly be bad.
From the point of view of the Democratic Party,
however, it is clear that the best course of events
will be for the war to be kept going as it is now until
the 2008 election, but in such a way as to keep the
Republicans nominally responsible for it. And so
as Republicans defect from Bush's suicide mission
I expect some Democrats from "safe" districts to be
detailed to extend grudging support for the war
until the fall of 2008.
War fans shouldn't be disappointed at this
half-hearted approach: Clinton and Obama
have more or less promised wider wars, with
Pakistan and Iran as the most likely targets.
Nevertheless, the left in the U.S. seem fairly
well suckered into the belief that electing
Democrats will somehow deflect America
from its date with imperial catastrophe.
.
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| User: "raven1" |
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| Title: Re: #Dem Congressman visits Iraq, sees reality, decides US needs to STAY. Sorry, Lefties...... |
20 Aug 2007 08:46:12 PM |
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On Aug 20, 6:06 pm, Kurt Nicklas <nickl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Baird sees need for longer U.S. role in Iraq
I'll take "You Broke It, You Bought It" for $600, Alex...
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| User: "David Morgan \MAMS" |
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| Title: Re: #Dem Congressman visits Iraq, sees reality, decides US needs to STAY. Sorry, Lefties...... |
20 Aug 2007 08:51:09 PM |
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"raven1" <psychedelephant1@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1187660772.558397.228760@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 20, 6:06 pm, Kurt Nicklas <nickl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Baird sees need for longer U.S. role in Iraq
I'll take "You Broke It, You Bought It" for $600, Alex...
ROTFLMFAO.....
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: #Dem Congressman visits Iraq, sees KNICLAS reality is phoney as ever. |
20 Aug 2007 07:50:10 PM |
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On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 15:06:59 -0700, Kurt Nicklas
<nicklask@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Baird sees need for longer U.S. role in Iraq
Yeah, you stupid fuckwit----
Because of the mess your lying sack of ***** got us in
BTW, still making late night crank calls, KNICKKKERS?
(SNICKER)
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| User: "OCVaughn" |
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| Title: Re: #Dem Congressman visits Iraq, sees reality, decides US needs to STAY. Sorry, Lefties...... |
20 Aug 2007 07:00:20 PM |
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Reality sinks in. Bush grabbed the tar baby and we're stuck while he
waltzes across Texas. What a debacle. God help the next administration.
OCV
"Kurt Nicklas" <nicklask@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:1187647619.874660.198820@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
Baird sees need for longer U.S. role in Iraq
Brad Shannon
The Olympian
August 17, 2007
http://www.theolympian.com/news/story/192500.html
U.S. Rep. Brian Baird said Thursday that his recent trip to Iraq
convinced him the military needs more time in the region, and that a
hasty pullout would cause chaos that helps Iran and harms U.S.
security.
"I believe that the decision to invade Iraq and the post-invasion
management of that country were among the largest foreign-policy
mistakes in the history of our nation. I voted against them, and I
still think they were the right votes," Baird said in a telephone
interview from Washington, D.C.
"But we're on the ground now. We have a responsibility to the Iraqi
people and a strategic interest in making this work."
Baird, a five-term Democrat, voted against President Bush ordering the
Iraq invasion - at a time when he was in a minority in Congress and at
risk of alienating voters. He returned late Tuesday from a trip that
included stops in Israel, Jordan and Iraq, where he met troops, U.S.
advisers and Iraqis, whose stories have convinced him that U.S. troops
must stay longer.
With Congress poised next month to look at U.S. progress in Iraq and a
vote looming on U.S. funding for the war, Baird said he's inclined to
seek a continued U.S. presence in Iraq beyond what many impatient
Americans want. He also expects Gen. David Petraeus, who oversees U.S.
troops in Iraq, to seek a redeployment of forces. "People may be
upset. I wish I didn't have to say this," Baird said. He added that
the United States needs to continue with its military troops surge "at
least into early next year, then engage in a gradual redeployment. ... I
know it's going to cost hundreds of American lives and hundreds of
billions of dollars."
It was Baird's fifth trip to the Middle East, and he conceded that
what he has learned has put him again in an unpopular position with
some voters. He no longer thinks partitioning Iraq into Sunni, Shiite
and Kurd sections is possible, for instance; no one he spoke to in
Israel, Jordan, Palestinian cities or Iraq liked the idea, he added.
Activists rallied Thursday at the state Capitol, saying they want
Baird, who represents the 3rd Congressional District, which includes
Olympia, to vote for withdrawing U.S. troops. But Baird said he
believes that to the extent Iraqis think the United States would
withdraw before bringing security to a functioning Iraqi government,
"that might contribute to the infighting and instability of the
government."
He also said the United States tore up Iraq with its invasion in 2003,
dismantling civil government and industries and tossing a half-million
people out of work, but that three years of U.S. help is not enough to
let Iraq rebuild.
Baird said he would not say this if he didn't believe two things:
· "One, I think we're making real progress."
· "Secondly, I think the consequences of pulling back precipitously
would be potentially catastrophic for the Iraqi people themselves, to
whom we have a tremendous responsibility ... and in the long run chaotic
for the region as a whole and for our own security."
Cheryl Crist of Olympia, who lost the Democratic primary against Baird
in 2004 running on an anti-war platform, said the military presence in
Iraq is adding to the problem.
"We do owe them something - reparations and help," Crist said of the
U.S. obligation to Iraqis. "But we are not good at delivering that
through the military."
.
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