| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Fred Stone" |
| Date: |
05 Aug 2007 08:46:23 PM |
| Object: |
Democrats do what Democrats do best, again. |
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/010768.php
Blue Dogs Pass FISA Changes While The YKos Plays On
The big story this week for the blogosphere has been the YearlyKos
convention, a highly visible amplification of the reach of a blog
community into a political force. Presidential and Congressional
candidates have spoken to the attendees, and at least to some extent
ratified the hard-Left political direction of the YKos crowd among
Democratic politicians. Unfortunately, the Democrats in office
apparently don't intend to do much more than pander, as the leadership
in both chambers of Congress essentially surrendered to the White House
on FISA:
The Democratic-controlled House last night approved legislation
President Bush's intelligence advisers wrote to enhance their ability to
intercept the electronic communications of foreigners without a court
order.
The 227 to 183 House vote capped a high-pressure campaign by the
White House to change the nation's wiretap law, in which the
administration capitalized on Democrats' fears of being branded weak on
terrorism and on Congress's desire to act on the issue before its August
recess.
The Senate had passed the legislation Friday night after House
Democrats failed to win enough votes to pass a narrower revision of a
statute known as the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. The original
statute was enacted after the revelation of CIA abuses in the 1970s, and
it required judicial oversight for most federal wiretapping conducted in
the United States.
The new majority has proven a little too difficult to manage, especially
for Nancy Pelosi. The Blue Dogs have actually made the party less
reliably Leftist. The Washington Post notes that this group of mostly
freshman Democrats from conservative districts helped give the White
House its 44-vote margin of victory. Forty-one Democrats crossed the
aisle to support the bill, and nine didn't bother to vote at all.
When push comes to shove, especially on war-related issues, the
Democrats have failed almost every time to fulfill their campaign
promises. The FISA legislation should enrage the Democratic base. The
action by Congress this weekend essentially ratifies the NSA's
warrantless wiretap program. After its exposure in December 2005, the
DKos community and the rest of the Left that propelled the Democrats to
power insisted that the TSP was one of the leading examples of the Bush
administration's attack on freedom and liberty. The Senate promised to
hold investigations into its operation and to even perhaps impeach
George Bush for violating the Constitution.
And what did they do? They endorsed the TSP instead. It serves as a big,
ugly admission that the Democrats never took the hard Left seriously,
but pandered to them instead for political contributions and to buy a
noise machine. Attendees at the YKos conference -- which I do consider a
marvel of organization by Markos Moulitsas and a genuine accomplishment
by their community -- may want to remember this when they assess their
impact on actual policy.
In the meantime, Congress did the right thing, especially in insisting
on six-month reviews of these changes. The NSA can properly monitor
truly international calls that route through American switches. I would
have preferred that the restriction remained on calls with one terminus
in the US for some evidence of suspicion for a particular phone number,
as the TSP operated before, but perhaps Congress can reapply that in six
months.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
“It takes a truly twisted perspective to see a man who commits private
sins while arguing in public for virtue, and choose to take issue with
the latter."
.
|
|
| User: "Geoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Democrats do what Democrats do best, again. |
06 Aug 2007 09:49:19 AM |
|
|
Fred Stone wrote:
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/010768.php
Blue Dogs Pass FISA Changes While The YKos Plays On
Do you object to this? I don't get it.
.
|
|
|
| User: "JTEM" |
|
| Title: Re: Democrats do what Democrats do best, again. |
06 Aug 2007 10:50:14 AM |
|
|
"Geoff" <geb...@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote:
Fred Stone wrote:
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/010768.php
Blue Dogs Pass FISA Changes While The YKos Plays On
Do you object to this? I don't get it.
No kidding, what the ***** is "Fred" going off about now?
"Too many Democrats voted with the people I rubber stamp,
so that makes the Democrats bad!"
Does "Fred" only respect people who oppose his views? Is that
it?
Anyhow, the story got a few things pretty accurate. Bush seems
to have gotten what he's wanted, and he got it with the help of
a lot of "Democrats" who aren't really very Democratic.
Going back to the 2006 election, one man in other group hit
the nail on the head when describing the Virginia Sneate
race when he said:
| (And just so you notice: Webb is definitely a "lesser evil"
| to Allen, and not by a whole lot; if it didn't affect who
| controlled committee chairmanships in the Senate, I
| wouldn't give a damn which of them won.)
Another problem is that the GOP had smeared itself with
plenty of scandals, while insisting on backing the candidates
behind the scandals. So there were a number of Democrats
elected in neo-con districts who will only be placeholders,
holding the seat for a single term, unless they pander to their
lunatic Reich wing districts.
.
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|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Democrats do what Democrats do best, again. |
06 Aug 2007 09:43:16 PM |
|
|
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:nY2dncc2ZJByqSrbnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/010768.php
Blue Dogs Pass FISA Changes While The YKos Plays On
Do you object to this? I don't get it.
I'm not objecting. I'm gloating.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
“It takes a truly twisted perspective to see a man who commits private
sins while arguing in public for virtue, and choose to take issue with
the latter."
.
|
|
|
| User: "Geoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Democrats do what Democrats do best, again. |
07 Aug 2007 12:25:36 PM |
|
|
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:nY2dncc2ZJByqSrbnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/010768.php
Blue Dogs Pass FISA Changes While The YKos Plays On
Do you object to this? I don't get it.
I'm not objecting. I'm gloating.
Good for you. Let's see what happens when it comes up for review in 6
months.
So unlike Republicans, Democrats don't vote like a bloc of delegates at a
Politburo meeting. Bully for you to point that out.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Democrats do what Democrats do best, again. |
07 Aug 2007 04:40:35 PM |
|
|
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:ZsidneUMAYGMNiXbnZ2dnUVZ_jOdnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:nY2dncc2ZJByqSrbnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/010768.php
Blue Dogs Pass FISA Changes While The YKos Plays On
Do you object to this? I don't get it.
I'm not objecting. I'm gloating.
Good for you. Let's see what happens when it comes up for review in 6
months.
So unlike Republicans, Democrats don't vote like a bloc of delegates
at a Politburo meeting. Bully for you to point that out.
So your "leaders" can't even hold their caucus together on something
that's as "important" as the so-called "spying on Americans by the Bush
administration". Fact is, they haven't been able to hold their caucus
together on *ANYTHING* that they deemed "important".
Gloat. Gloat. Gloat.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
“It takes a truly twisted perspective to see a man who commits private
sins while arguing in public for virtue, and choose to take issue with
the latter."
.
|
|
|
| User: "JTEM" |
|
| Title: Re: Democrats do what Democrats do best, again. |
07 Aug 2007 06:16:14 PM |
|
|
Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com> wrote:
So your "leaders" can't even hold their caucus
together
Wow, "Fred," so you're only about 70 years behind the times....
(Psst. Nimrod: A certain Will Rogers quote should have come
to mind)
Anyways, "Fred," explain to us why you're so upset about
winning?
17 Democrats -- less tha half -- voted with ALL the Republicans,
so you got your way. Why does this upset you, ***** head?
.
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|
|
| User: "Geoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Democrats do what Democrats do best, again. |
08 Aug 2007 06:16:13 AM |
|
|
JTEM wrote:
Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com> wrote:
So your "leaders" can't even hold their caucus
together
Wow, "Fred," so you're only about 70 years behind the times....
(Psst. Nimrod: A certain Will Rogers quote should have come
to mind)
Anyways, "Fred," explain to us why you're so upset about
winning?
17 Democrats -- less tha half -- voted with ALL the Republicans,
so you got your way. Why does this upset you, ***** head?
Fred thinks that voting lockstep like the Soviets is a good thing.
.
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|
| User: "Larry" |
|
| Title: Re: Democrats do what Democrats do best, again. |
15 Aug 2007 11:54:07 AM |
|
|
On Aug 6, 9:43 pm, Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com> wrote:
"Geoff" <geb...@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote innews:nY2dncc2ZJByqSrbnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/010768.php
Blue Dogs PassFISAChanges While The YKos Plays On
Do you object to this? I don't get it.
I'm not objecting. I'm gloating.
You should be laughing too.
Just remember, it might be a Democrat who creates the next plumbers
unit in
the White House, and this time it will be legal.
Larry
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Democrats do what Democrats do best, again. |
15 Aug 2007 12:33:29 PM |
|
|
Larry <lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote in
news:1187196847.587361.259670@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
On Aug 6, 9:43 pm, Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com> wrote:
"Geoff" <geb...@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote
innews:nY2dncc2ZJByqSrbnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/010768.php
Blue Dogs PassFISAChanges While The YKos Plays On
Do you object to this? I don't get it.
I'm not objecting. I'm gloating.
You should be laughing too.
Just remember, it might be a Democrat who creates the next plumbers
unit in the White House, and this time it will be legal.
No it won't. You only prove how little you understand of the law you're
complaining about.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
“It takes a truly twisted perspective to see a man who commits private
sins while arguing in public for virtue, and choose to take issue with
the latter."
.
|
|
|
| User: "Larry" |
|
| Title: Re: Democrats do what Democrats do best, again. |
16 Aug 2007 09:42:59 AM |
|
|
On Aug 15, 12:33 pm, Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com> wrote:
Larry <ls...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote innews:1187196847.587361.259670@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
On Aug 6, 9:43 pm, Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com> wrote:
"Geoff" <geb...@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote
innews:nY2dncc2ZJByqSrbnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/010768.php
Blue Dogs PassFISAChanges While The YKos Plays On
Do you object to this? I don't get it.
I'm not objecting. I'm gloating.
You should be laughing too.
Just remember, it might be a Democrat who creates the next plumbers
unit in the White House, and this time it will be legal.
No it won't. You only prove how little you understand of the law you're
complaining about.
The law allows listening in on any conversation that probably has at
least one person
not in the United States, for the purpose of intelligence gathering,
not just on terrorists anymore.
It puts over sight of the spying in the hands of the administration
instead of a court, just the
same type of oversight Nixon had. You might think a president would
never misuse this power
except we know they already have.
Larry
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Democrats do what Democrats do best, again. |
16 Aug 2007 12:52:26 PM |
|
|
Larry <lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote in
news:1187275379.082488.182020@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
On Aug 15, 12:33 pm, Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com> wrote:
Larry <ls...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote
innews:1187196847.587361.259670@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
On Aug 6, 9:43 pm, Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com> wrote:
"Geoff" <geb...@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote
innews:nY2dncc2ZJByqSrbnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/010768.php
Blue Dogs PassFISAChanges While The YKos Plays On
Do you object to this? I don't get it.
I'm not objecting. I'm gloating.
You should be laughing too.
Just remember, it might be a Democrat who creates the next plumbers
unit in the White House, and this time it will be legal.
No it won't. You only prove how little you understand of the law
you're complaining about.
The law allows listening in on any conversation that probably has at
least one person not in the United States, for the purpose of
intelligence gathering, not just on terrorists anymore. It puts over
sight of the spying in the hands of the administration instead of a
court, just the same type of oversight Nixon had. You might think a
president would never misuse this power except we know they already
have.
Well if you're getting phone calls from a terrorist, I think I'd like
the President to know about it.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
“It takes a truly twisted perspective to see a man who commits private
sins while arguing in public for virtue, and choose to take issue with
the latter."
.
|
|
|
| User: "Geoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Democrats do what Democrats do best, again. |
16 Aug 2007 08:46:05 PM |
|
|
Fred Stone wrote:
Larry <lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote in
news:1187275379.082488.182020@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
On Aug 15, 12:33 pm, Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com> wrote:
Larry <ls...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote
innews:1187196847.587361.259670@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
On Aug 6, 9:43 pm, Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com> wrote:
"Geoff" <geb...@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote
innews:nY2dncc2ZJByqSrbnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/010768.php
Blue Dogs PassFISAChanges While The YKos Plays On
Do you object to this? I don't get it.
I'm not objecting. I'm gloating.
You should be laughing too.
Just remember, it might be a Democrat who creates the next plumbers
unit in the White House, and this time it will be legal.
No it won't. You only prove how little you understand of the law
you're complaining about.
The law allows listening in on any conversation that probably has at
least one person not in the United States, for the purpose of
intelligence gathering, not just on terrorists anymore. It puts over
sight of the spying in the hands of the administration instead of a
court, just the same type of oversight Nixon had. You might think a
president would never misuse this power except we know they already
have.
Well if you're getting phone calls from a terrorist, I think I'd like
the President to know about it.
No one's worried if atual terrorist phone calls are monitored, Fred. What we
shoulf be worried about is if the administration misuses the powers granted
here.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Democrats do what Democrats do best, again. |
17 Aug 2007 06:36:43 AM |
|
|
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:pPKdnXXx4ZJCYFnbnZ2dnUVZ_vOlnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
Larry <lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote in
news:1187275379.082488.182020@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
On Aug 15, 12:33 pm, Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com> wrote:
Larry <ls...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote
innews:1187196847.587361.259670@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
On Aug 6, 9:43 pm, Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com> wrote:
"Geoff" <geb...@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote
innews:nY2dncc2ZJByqSrbnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/010768.php
Blue Dogs PassFISAChanges While The YKos Plays On
Do you object to this? I don't get it.
I'm not objecting. I'm gloating.
You should be laughing too.
Just remember, it might be a Democrat who creates the next
plumbers unit in the White House, and this time it will be legal.
No it won't. You only prove how little you understand of the law
you're complaining about.
The law allows listening in on any conversation that probably has at
least one person not in the United States, for the purpose of
intelligence gathering, not just on terrorists anymore. It puts over
sight of the spying in the hands of the administration instead of a
court, just the same type of oversight Nixon had. You might think a
president would never misuse this power except we know they already
have.
Well if you're getting phone calls from a terrorist, I think I'd like
the President to know about it.
No one's worried if atual terrorist phone calls are monitored, Fred.
What we shoulf be worried about is if the administration misuses the
powers granted here.
So you're not actually worried about this law at all. You're worried
about them *breaking the law*.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
“It takes a truly twisted perspective to see a man who commits private
sins while arguing in public for virtue, and choose to take issue with
the latter."
.
|
|
|
| User: "Geoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Democrats do what Democrats do best, again. |
17 Aug 2007 08:32:09 AM |
|
|
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:pPKdnXXx4ZJCYFnbnZ2dnUVZ_vOlnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
Larry <lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote in
news:1187275379.082488.182020@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
On Aug 15, 12:33 pm, Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com> wrote:
Larry <ls...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote
innews:1187196847.587361.259670@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
On Aug 6, 9:43 pm, Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com> wrote:
"Geoff" <geb...@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote
innews:nY2dncc2ZJByqSrbnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/010768.php
Blue Dogs PassFISAChanges While The YKos Plays On
Do you object to this? I don't get it.
I'm not objecting. I'm gloating.
You should be laughing too.
Just remember, it might be a Democrat who creates the next
plumbers unit in the White House, and this time it will be legal.
No it won't. You only prove how little you understand of the law
you're complaining about.
The law allows listening in on any conversation that probably has
at least one person not in the United States, for the purpose of
intelligence gathering, not just on terrorists anymore. It puts
over sight of the spying in the hands of the administration
instead of a court, just the same type of oversight Nixon had.
You might think a president would never misuse this power except
we know they already have.
Well if you're getting phone calls from a terrorist, I think I'd
like the President to know about it.
No one's worried if atual terrorist phone calls are monitored, Fred.
What we shoulf be worried about is if the administration misuses the
powers granted here.
So you're not actually worried about this law at all. You're worried
about them *breaking the law*.
Well the problem with the law is that it weakens oversight. It's like
changing the law for theft and requiring the thief to turn himself in after
the crime.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Democrats do what Democrats do best, again. |
17 Aug 2007 08:38:56 AM |
|
|
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:RO6dnQn9yJTHPljbnZ2dnUVZ_qqgnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:pPKdnXXx4ZJCYFnbnZ2dnUVZ_vOlnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
Larry <lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote in
news:1187275379.082488.182020@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
On Aug 15, 12:33 pm, Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com> wrote:
Larry <ls...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote
innews:1187196847.587361.259670@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
On Aug 6, 9:43 pm, Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com> wrote:
"Geoff" <geb...@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote
innews:nY2dncc2ZJByqSrbnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/010768.php
Blue Dogs PassFISAChanges While The YKos Plays On
Do you object to this? I don't get it.
I'm not objecting. I'm gloating.
You should be laughing too.
Just remember, it might be a Democrat who creates the next
plumbers unit in the White House, and this time it will be
legal.
No it won't. You only prove how little you understand of the law
you're complaining about.
The law allows listening in on any conversation that probably has
at least one person not in the United States, for the purpose of
intelligence gathering, not just on terrorists anymore. It puts
over sight of the spying in the hands of the administration
instead of a court, just the same type of oversight Nixon had.
You might think a president would never misuse this power except
we know they already have.
Well if you're getting phone calls from a terrorist, I think I'd
like the President to know about it.
No one's worried if atual terrorist phone calls are monitored, Fred.
What we shoulf be worried about is if the administration misuses the
powers granted here.
So you're not actually worried about this law at all. You're worried
about them *breaking the law*.
Well the problem with the law is that it weakens oversight. It's like
changing the law for theft and requiring the thief to turn himself in
after the crime.
"Oversight" is only good for nitpicking technical violations when
they're basically trying to follow the law anyway. It isn't going to
catch outright criminal activity where the perpetrators are deliberately
setting out to subvert the system.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
“It takes a truly twisted perspective to see a man who commits private
sins while arguing in public for virtue, and choose to take issue with
the latter."
.
|
|
|
| User: "Geoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Democrats do what Democrats do best, again. |
17 Aug 2007 09:14:21 AM |
|
|
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:RO6dnQn9yJTHPljbnZ2dnUVZ_qqgnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:pPKdnXXx4ZJCYFnbnZ2dnUVZ_vOlnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
Larry <lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote in
news:1187275379.082488.182020@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
On Aug 15, 12:33 pm, Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com> wrote:
Larry <ls...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote
innews:1187196847.587361.259670@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
On Aug 6, 9:43 pm, Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com> wrote:
"Geoff" <geb...@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote
innews:nY2dncc2ZJByqSrbnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/010768.php
Blue Dogs PassFISAChanges While The YKos Plays On
Do you object to this? I don't get it.
I'm not objecting. I'm gloating.
You should be laughing too.
Just remember, it might be a Democrat who creates the next
plumbers unit in the White House, and this time it will be
legal.
No it won't. You only prove how little you understand of the law
you're complaining about.
The law allows listening in on any conversation that probably has
at least one person not in the United States, for the purpose of
intelligence gathering, not just on terrorists anymore. It puts
over sight of the spying in the hands of the administration
instead of a court, just the same type of oversight Nixon had.
You might think a president would never misuse this power except
we know they already have.
Well if you're getting phone calls from a terrorist, I think I'd
like the President to know about it.
No one's worried if atual terrorist phone calls are monitored,
Fred. What we shoulf be worried about is if the administration
misuses the powers granted here.
So you're not actually worried about this law at all. You're worried
about them *breaking the law*.
Well the problem with the law is that it weakens oversight. It's like
changing the law for theft and requiring the thief to turn himself in
after the crime.
"Oversight" is only good for nitpicking technical violations when
they're basically trying to follow the law anyway. It isn't going to
catch outright criminal activity where the perpetrators are
deliberately setting out to subvert the system.
FISA worked fine for three decades. Mark my words, the system will be
abused.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Democrats do what Democrats do best, again. |
17 Aug 2007 10:47:31 AM |
|
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"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:24WdnSiRlfiiMFjbnZ2dnUVZ_vCknZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:RO6dnQn9yJTHPljbnZ2dnUVZ_qqgnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:pPKdnXXx4ZJCYFnbnZ2dnUVZ_vOlnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
Larry <lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote in
news:1187275379.082488.182020@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
On Aug 15, 12:33 pm, Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com> wrote:
Larry <ls...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote
innews:1187196847.587361.259670@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
On Aug 6, 9:43 pm, Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com> wrote:
"Geoff" <geb...@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote
innews:nY2dncc2ZJByqSrbnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/010768.php
Blue Dogs PassFISAChanges While The YKos Plays On
Do you object to this? I don't get it.
I'm not objecting. I'm gloating.
You should be laughing too.
Just remember, it might be a Democrat who creates the next
plumbers unit in the White House, and this time it will be
legal.
No it won't. You only prove how little you understand of the
law you're complaining about.
The law allows listening in on any conversation that probably
has at least one person not in the United States, for the
purpose of intelligence gathering, not just on terrorists
anymore. It puts over sight of the spying in the hands of the
administration instead of a court, just the same type of
oversight Nixon had. You might think a president would never
misuse this power except we know they already have.
Well if you're getting phone calls from a terrorist, I think I'd
like the President to know about it.
No one's worried if atual terrorist phone calls are monitored,
Fred. What we shoulf be worried about is if the administration
misuses the powers granted here.
So you're not actually worried about this law at all. You're
worried about them *breaking the law*.
Well the problem with the law is that it weakens oversight. It's
like changing the law for theft and requiring the thief to turn
himself in after the crime.
"Oversight" is only good for nitpicking technical violations when
they're basically trying to follow the law anyway. It isn't going to
catch outright criminal activity where the perpetrators are
deliberately setting out to subvert the system.
FISA worked fine for three decades. Mark my words, the system will be
abused.
If they were going to abuse the system, changing the law wouldn't make
the least bit of difference.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
“It takes a truly twisted perspective to see a man who commits private
sins while arguing in public for virtue, and choose to take issue with
the latter."
.
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Democrats do what Democrats do best, again. |
17 Aug 2007 02:25:39 PM |
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Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:24WdnSiRlfiiMFjbnZ2dnUVZ_vCknZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:RO6dnQn9yJTHPljbnZ2dnUVZ_qqgnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:pPKdnXXx4ZJCYFnbnZ2dnUVZ_vOlnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
Larry <lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote in
news:1187275379.082488.182020@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
On Aug 15, 12:33 pm, Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com> wrote:
Larry <ls...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote
innews:1187196847.587361.259670@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
On Aug 6, 9:43 pm, Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com> wrote:
"Geoff" <geb...@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote
innews:nY2dncc2ZJByqSrbnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/010768.php
Blue Dogs PassFISAChanges While The YKos Plays On
Do you object to this? I don't get it.
I'm not objecting. I'm gloating.
You should be laughing too.
Just remember, it might be a Democrat who creates the next
plumbers unit in the White House, and this time it will be
legal.
No it won't. You only prove how little you understand of the
law you're complaining about.
The law allows listening in on any conversation that probably
has at least one person not in the United States, for the
purpose of intelligence gathering, not just on terrorists
anymore. It puts over sight of the spying in the hands of the
administration instead of a court, just the same type of
oversight Nixon had. You might think a president would never
misuse this power except we know they already have.
Well if you're getting phone calls from a terrorist, I think I'd
like the President to know about it.
No one's worried if atual terrorist phone calls are monitored,
Fred. What we shoulf be worried about is if the administration
misuses the powers granted here.
So you're not actually worried about this law at all. You're
worried about them *breaking the law*.
Well the problem with the law is that it weakens oversight. It's
like changing the law for theft and requiring the thief to turn
himself in after the crime.
"Oversight" is only good for nitpicking technical violations when
they're basically trying to follow the law anyway. It isn't going to
catch outright criminal activity where the perpetrators are
deliberately setting out to subvert the system.
FISA worked fine for three decades. Mark my words, the system will be
abused.
If they were going to abuse the system, changing the law wouldn't make
the least bit of difference.
Elaborate.
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Democrats do what Democrats do best, again. |
17 Aug 2007 05:29:40 PM |
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"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:ibCdnWfShbepa1jbnZ2dnUVZ_uGknZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:24WdnSiRlfiiMFjbnZ2dnUVZ_vCknZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:RO6dnQn9yJTHPljbnZ2dnUVZ_qqgnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:pPKdnXXx4ZJCYFnbnZ2dnUVZ_vOlnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
Larry <lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote in
news:1187275379.082488.182020@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
On Aug 15, 12:33 pm, Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com>
wrote:
Larry <ls...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote
innews:1187196847.587361.259670@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
On Aug 6, 9:43 pm, Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com>
wrote:
"Geoff" <geb...@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote
innews:nY2dncc2ZJByqSrbnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/010768.php
Blue Dogs PassFISAChanges While The YKos Plays On
Do you object to this? I don't get it.
I'm not objecting. I'm gloating.
You should be laughing too.
Just remember, it might be a Democrat who creates the next
plumbers unit in the White House, and this time it will be
legal.
No it won't. You only prove how little you understand of the
law you're complaining about.
The law allows listening in on any conversation that probably
has at least one person not in the United States, for the
purpose of intelligence gathering, not just on terrorists
anymore. It puts over sight of the spying in the hands of the
administration instead of a court, just the same type of
oversight Nixon had. You might think a president would never
misuse this power except we know they already have.
Well if you're getting phone calls from a terrorist, I think
I'd like the President to know about it.
No one's worried if atual terrorist phone calls are monitored,
Fred. What we shoulf be worried about is if the administration
misuses the powers granted here.
So you're not actually worried about this law at all. You're
worried about them *breaking the law*.
Well the problem with the law is that it weakens oversight. It's
like changing the law for theft and requiring the thief to turn
himself in after the crime.
"Oversight" is only good for nitpicking technical violations when
they're basically trying to follow the law anyway. It isn't going
to catch outright criminal activity where the perpetrators are
deliberately setting out to subvert the system.
FISA worked fine for three decades. Mark my words, the system will
be abused.
If they were going to abuse the system, changing the law wouldn't
make the least bit of difference.
Elaborate.
Somebody who is out to abuse the system doesn't care what the law is,
and will work around any sort of oversight to get what he wants. The
only way to catch that is by a whistleblower giving up the game, like
what happened to Nixon with Watergate. No amount of Congressional
oversight is going to uncover a real conspiracy if everybody involved
actually does cover up what they're doing.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
“You know the difference between cannibals and liberals? Cannibals only
eat their enemies.” - LBJ
.
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Democrats do what Democrats do best, again. |
18 Aug 2007 07:18:04 AM |
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Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:ibCdnWfShbepa1jbnZ2dnUVZ_uGknZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:24WdnSiRlfiiMFjbnZ2dnUVZ_vCknZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:RO6dnQn9yJTHPljbnZ2dnUVZ_qqgnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:pPKdnXXx4ZJCYFnbnZ2dnUVZ_vOlnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
Larry <lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote in
news:1187275379.082488.182020@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
On Aug 15, 12:33 pm, Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com>
wrote:
Larry <ls...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote
innews:1187196847.587361.259670@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
On Aug 6, 9:43 pm, Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com>
wrote:
"Geoff" <geb...@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote
innews:nY2dncc2ZJByqSrbnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/010768.php
Blue Dogs PassFISAChanges While The YKos Plays On
Do you object to this? I don't get it.
I'm not objecting. I'm gloating.
You should be laughing too.
Just remember, it might be a Democrat who creates the next
plumbers unit in the White House, and this time it will be
legal.
No it won't. You only prove how little you understand of the
law you're complaining about.
The law allows listening in on any conversation that probably
has at least one person not in the United States, for the
purpose of intelligence gathering, not just on terrorists
anymore. It puts over sight of the spying in the hands of the
administration instead of a court, just the same type of
oversight Nixon had. You might think a president would never
misuse this power except we know they already have.
Well if you're getting phone calls from a terrorist, I think
I'd like the President to know about it.
No one's worried if atual terrorist phone calls are monitored,
Fred. What we shoulf be worried about is if the administration
misuses the powers granted here.
So you're not actually worried about this law at all. You're
worried about them *breaking the law*.
Well the problem with the law is that it weakens oversight. It's
like changing the law for theft and requiring the thief to turn
himself in after the crime.
"Oversight" is only good for nitpicking technical violations when
they're basically trying to follow the law anyway. It isn't going
to catch outright criminal activity where the perpetrators are
deliberately setting out to subvert the system.
FISA worked fine for three decades. Mark my words, the system will
be abused.
If they were going to abuse the system, changing the law wouldn't
make the least bit of difference.
Elaborate.
Somebody who is out to abuse the system doesn't care what the law is,
and will work around any sort of oversight to get what he wants. The
only way to catch that is by a whistleblower giving up the game, like
what happened to Nixon with Watergate. No amount of Congressional
oversight is going to uncover a real conspiracy if everybody involved
actually does cover up what they're doing.
What the new law does is legalize the end-around they did on the old law.
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Democrats do what Democrats do best, again. |
18 Aug 2007 07:31:49 AM |
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"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:i92dnY_WK4ngflvbnZ2dnUVZ_ommnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:ibCdnWfShbepa1jbnZ2dnUVZ_uGknZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:24WdnSiRlfiiMFjbnZ2dnUVZ_vCknZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:RO6dnQn9yJTHPljbnZ2dnUVZ_qqgnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:pPKdnXXx4ZJCYFnbnZ2dnUVZ_vOlnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
Larry <lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote in
news:1187275379.082488.182020@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
On Aug 15, 12:33 pm, Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com>
wrote:
Larry <ls...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote
innews:1187196847.587361.259670
@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com
:
On Aug 6, 9:43 pm, Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com>
wrote:
"Geoff" <geb...@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote
innews:nY2dncc2ZJByqSrbnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/010768.
php
Blue Dogs PassFISAChanges While The YKos Plays On
Do you object to this? I don't get it.
I'm not objecting. I'm gloating.
You should be laughing too.
Just remember, it might be a Democrat who creates the next
plumbers unit in the White House, and this time it will be
legal.
No it won't. You only prove how little you understand of
the law you're complaining about.
The law allows listening in on any conversation that
probably has at least one person not in the United States,
for the purpose of intelligence gathering, not just on
terrorists anymore. It puts over sight of the spying in the
hands of the administration instead of a court, just the
same type of oversight Nixon had. You might think a
president would never misuse this power except we know they
already have.
Well if you're getting phone calls from a terrorist, I think
I'd like the President to know about it.
No one's worried if atual terrorist phone calls are monitored,
Fred. What we shoulf be worried about is if the administration
misuses the powers granted here.
So you're not actually worried about this law at all. You're
worried about them *breaking the law*.
Well the problem with the law is that it weakens oversight. It's
like changing the law for theft and requiring the thief to turn
himself in after the crime.
"Oversight" is only good for nitpicking technical violations when
they're basically trying to follow the law anyway. It isn't going
to catch outright criminal activity where the perpetrators are
deliberately setting out to subvert the system.
FISA worked fine for three decades. Mark my words, the system will
be abused.
If they were going to abuse the system, changing the law wouldn't
make the least bit of difference.
Elaborate.
Somebody who is out to abuse the system doesn't care what the law is,
and will work around any sort of oversight to get what he wants. The
only way to catch that is by a whistleblower giving up the game, like
what happened to Nixon with Watergate. No amount of Congressional
oversight is going to uncover a real conspiracy if everybody involved
actually does cover up what they're doing.
What the new law does is legalize the end-around they did on the old
law.
Like I said, nitpicking technical violations as a matter of
interpretation of ambiguous language in the statute.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
“You know the difference between cannibals and liberals? Cannibals only
eat their enemies.” - LBJ
.
|
|
|
| User: "Geoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Democrats do what Democrats do best, again. |
18 Aug 2007 03:33:33 PM |
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|
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:i92dnY_WK4ngflvbnZ2dnUVZ_ommnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:ibCdnWfShbepa1jbnZ2dnUVZ_uGknZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:24WdnSiRlfiiMFjbnZ2dnUVZ_vCknZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:RO6dnQn9yJTHPljbnZ2dnUVZ_qqgnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:pPKdnXXx4ZJCYFnbnZ2dnUVZ_vOlnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
Larry <lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote in
news:1187275379.082488.182020@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
On Aug 15, 12:33 pm, Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com>
wrote:
Larry <ls...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote
innews:1187196847.587361.259670
@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com
On Aug 6, 9:43 pm, Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com>
wrote:
"Geoff" <geb...@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote
innews:nY2dncc2ZJByqSrbnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/010768.
php
Blue Dogs PassFISAChanges While The YKos Plays On
Do you object to this? I don't get it.
I'm not objecting. I'm gloating.
You should be laughing too.
Just remember, it might be a Democrat who creates the
next plumbers unit in the White House, and this time it
will be legal.
No it won't. You only prove how little you understand of
the law you're complaining about.
The law allows listening in on any conversation that
probably has at least one person not in the United States,
for the purpose of intelligence gathering, not just on
terrorists anymore. It puts over sight of the spying in the
hands of the administration instead of a court, just the
same type of oversight Nixon had. You might think a
president would never misuse this power except we know they
already have.
Well if you're getting phone calls from a terrorist, I think
I'd like the President to know about it.
No one's worried if atual terrorist phone calls are
monitored, Fred. What we shoulf be worried about is if the
administration misuses the powers granted here.
So you're not actually worried about this law at all. You're
worried about them *breaking the law*.
Well the problem with the law is that it weakens oversight.
It's like changing the law for theft and requiring the thief
to turn himself in after the crime.
"Oversight" is only good for nitpicking technical violations
when they're basically trying to follow the law anyway. It
isn't going to catch outright criminal activity where the
perpetrators are deliberately setting out to subvert the system.
FISA worked fine for three decades. Mark my words, the system
will be abused.
If they were going to abuse the system, changing the law wouldn't
make the least bit of difference.
Elaborate.
Somebody who is out to abuse the system doesn't care what the law
is, and will work around any sort of oversight to get what he
wants. The only way to catch that is by a whistleblower giving up
the game, like what happened to Nixon with Watergate. No amount of
Congressional oversight is going to uncover a real conspiracy if
everybody involved actually does cover up what they're doing.
What the new law does is legalize the end-around they did on the old
law.
Like I said, nitpicking technical violations as a matter of
interpretation of ambiguous language in the statute.
There was nitpicking what the administration did. They broke the law and
Congress gave them a pass.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Democrats do what Democrats do best, again. |
18 Aug 2007 05:42:52 PM |
|
|
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:xJ6dnSxULuIDylrbnZ2dnUVZ_qainZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:i92dnY_WK4ngflvbnZ2dnUVZ_ommnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:ibCdnWfShbepa1jbnZ2dnUVZ_uGknZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:24WdnSiRlfiiMFjbnZ2dnUVZ_vCknZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:RO6dnQn9yJTHPljbnZ2dnUVZ_qqgnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:pPKdnXXx4ZJCYFnbnZ2dnUVZ_vOlnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
Larry <lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote in
news:1187275379.082488.182020@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
On Aug 15, 12:33 pm, Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com>
wrote:
Larry <ls...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote
innews:1187196847.587361.259670
@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com
On Aug 6, 9:43 pm, Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com>
wrote:
"Geoff" <geb...@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote
innews:nY2dncc2ZJByqSrbnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/010768.
php
Blue Dogs PassFISAChanges While The YKos Plays On
Do you object to this? I don't get it.
I'm not objecting. I'm gloating.
You should be laughing too.
Just remember, it might be a Democrat who creates the
next plumbers unit in the White House, and this time it
will be legal.
No it won't. You only prove how little you understand of
the law you're complaining about.
The law allows listening in on any conversation that
probably has at least one person not in the United States,
for the purpose of intelligence gathering, not just on
terrorists anymore. It puts over sight of the spying in
the hands of the administration instead of a court, just
the same type of oversight Nixon had. You might think a
president would never misuse this power except we know
they already have.
Well if you're getting phone calls from a terrorist, I
think I'd like the President to know about it.
No one's worried if atual terrorist phone calls are
monitored, Fred. What we shoulf be worried about is if the
administration misuses the powers granted here.
So you're not actually worried about this law at all. You're
worried about them *breaking the law*.
Well the problem with the law is that it weakens oversight.
It's like changing the law for theft and requiring the thief
to turn himself in after the crime.
"Oversight" is only good for nitpicking technical violations
when they're basically trying to follow the law anyway. It
isn't going to catch outright criminal activity where the
perpetrators are deliberately setting out to subvert the
system.
FISA worked fine for three decades. Mark my words, the system
will be abused.
If they were going to abuse the system, changing the law wouldn't
make the least bit of difference.
Elaborate.
Somebody who is out to abuse the system doesn't care what the law
is, and will work around any sort of oversight to get what he
wants. The only way to catch that is by a whistleblower giving up
the game, like what happened to Nixon with Watergate. No amount of
Congressional oversight is going to uncover a real conspiracy if
everybody involved actually does cover up what they're doing.
What the new law does is legalize the end-around they did on the old
law.
Like I said, nitpicking technical violations as a matter of
interpretation of ambiguous language in the statute.
There was nitpicking what the administration did. They broke the law
and Congress gave them a pass.
*YOU* were nitpicking. The administration broke no laws. You cannot
possibly imagine that the Democrats would give Bush a pass.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
“You know the difference between cannibals and liberals? Cannibals only
eat their enemies.” - LBJ
.
|
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| User: "Geoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Democrats do what Democrats do best, again. |
19 Aug 2007 02:18:17 PM |
|
|
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:xJ6dnSxULuIDylrbnZ2dnUVZ_qainZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:i92dnY_WK4ngflvbnZ2dnUVZ_ommnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:ibCdnWfShbepa1jbnZ2dnUVZ_uGknZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:24WdnSiRlfiiMFjbnZ2dnUVZ_vCknZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:RO6dnQn9yJTHPljbnZ2dnUVZ_qqgnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:pPKdnXXx4ZJCYFnbnZ2dnUVZ_vOlnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
Larry <lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote in
news:1187275379.082488.182020@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
On Aug 15, 12:33 pm, Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com>
wrote:
Larry <ls...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote
innews:1187196847.587361.259670
@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com
On Aug 6, 9:43 pm, Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com>
wrote:
"Geoff" <geb...@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote
innews:nY2dncc2ZJByqSrbnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/010768.
php
Blue Dogs PassFISAChanges While The YKos Plays On
Do you object to this? I don't get it.
I'm not objecting. I'm gloating.
You should be laughing too.
Just remember, it might be a Democrat who creates the
next plumbers unit in the White House, and this time it
will be legal.
No it won't. You only prove how little you understand of
the law you're complaining about.
The law allows listening in on any conversation that
probably has at least one person not in the United
States, for the purpose of intelligence gathering, not
just on terrorists anymore. It puts over sight of the
spying in the hands of the administration instead of a
court, just the same type of oversight Nixon had. You
might think a president would never misuse this power
except we know they already have.
Well if you're getting phone calls from a terrorist, I
think I'd like the President to know about it.
No one's worried if atual terrorist phone calls are
monitored, Fred. What we shoulf be worried about is if the
administration misuses the powers granted here.
So you're not actually worried about this law at all. You're
worried about them *breaking the law*.
Well the problem with the law is that it weakens oversight.
It's like changing the law for theft and requiring the thief
to turn himself in after the crime.
"Oversight" is only good for nitpicking technical violations
when they're basically trying to follow the law anyway. It
isn't going to catch outright criminal activity where the
perpetrators are deliberately setting out to subvert the
system.
FISA worked fine for three decades. Mark my words, the system
will be abused.
If they were going to abuse the system, changing the law
wouldn't make the least bit of difference.
Elaborate.
Somebody who is out to abuse the system doesn't care what the law
is, and will work around any sort of oversight to get what he
wants. The only way to catch that is by a whistleblower giving up
the game, like what happened to Nixon with Watergate. No amount of
Congressional oversight is going to uncover a real conspiracy if
everybody involved actually does cover up what they're doing.
What the new law does is legalize the end-around they did on the
old law.
Like I said, nitpicking technical violations as a matter of
interpretation of ambiguous language in the statute.
There was nitpicking what the administration did. They broke the law
and Congress gave them a pass.
*YOU* were nitpicking. The administration broke no laws. You cannot
possibly imagine that the Democrats would give Bush a pass.
The pass was given by the last Congress, Fredo.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Democrats do what Democrats do best, again. |
19 Aug 2007 02:54:57 PM |
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"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:Ia2dnWBkHcXkClXbnZ2dnUVZ_hynnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:xJ6dnSxULuIDylrbnZ2dnUVZ_qainZ2d@giganews.com:
<...>
There was nitpicking what the administration did. They broke the law
and Congress gave them a pass.
*YOU* were nitpicking. The administration broke no laws. You cannot
possibly imagine that the Democrats would give Bush a pass.
The pass was given by the last Congress, Fredo.
THIS Congress passed the new surveillance law, Geoffie. You know, the
one with the Democrat majority in both houses?
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
“You know the difference between cannibals and liberals? Cannibals only
eat their enemies.” - LBJ
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Democrats do what Democrats do best, again. |
19 Aug 2007 07:10:55 PM |
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Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:Ia2dnWBkHcXkClXbnZ2dnUVZ_hynnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:xJ6dnSxULuIDylrbnZ2dnUVZ_qainZ2d@giganews.com:
<...>
There was nitpicking what the administration did. They broke the
law and Congress gave them a pass.
*YOU* were nitpicking. The administration broke no laws. You cannot
possibly imagine that the Democrats would give Bush a pass.
The pass was given by the last Congress, Fredo.
THIS Congress passed the new surveillance law, Geoffie. You know, the
one with the Democrat majority in both houses?
Yes, I know that Fred. The last Congress is the one that gave Bush the pass.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Democrats do what Democrats do best, again. |
20 Aug 2007 08:12:47 AM |
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"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:o8SdnWJjQMiSQVXbnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:Ia2dnWBkHcXkClXbnZ2dnUVZ_hynnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:xJ6dnSxULuIDylrbnZ2dnUVZ_qainZ2d@giganews.com:
<...>
There was nitpicking what the administration did. They broke the
law and Congress gave them a pass.
*YOU* were nitpicking. The administration broke no laws. You cannot
possibly imagine that the Democrats would give Bush a pass.
The pass was given by the last Congress, Fredo.
THIS Congress passed the new surveillance law, Geoffie. You know, the
one with the Democrat majority in both houses?
Yes, I know that Fred. The last Congress is the one that gave Bush the
pass.
What pass? He didn't break any laws.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
“You know the difference between cannibals and liberals? Cannibals only
eat their enemies.” - LBJ
.
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Democrats do what Democrats do best, again. |
20 Aug 2007 09:57:28 AM |
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Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:o8SdnWJjQMiSQVXbnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:Ia2dnWBkHcXkClXbnZ2dnUVZ_hynnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:xJ6dnSxULuIDylrbnZ2dnUVZ_qainZ2d@giganews.com:
<...>
There was nitpicking what the administration did. They broke the
law and Congress gave them a pass.
*YOU* were nitpicking. The administration broke no laws. You
cannot possibly imagine that the Democrats would give Bush a pass.
The pass was given by the last Congress, Fredo.
THIS Congress passed the new surveillance law, Geoffie. You know,
the one with the Democrat majority in both houses?
Yes, I know that Fred. The last Congress is the one that gave Bush
the pass.
What pass? He didn't break any laws.
Did he go through FISA to get authorizations? If not, why is this not
illegal?
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Democrats do what Democrats do best, again. |
20 Aug 2007 12:46:33 PM |
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"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:ja2dnaVWHpFHNlTbnZ2dnUVZ_hKdnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:o8SdnWJjQMiSQVXbnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:Ia2dnWBkHcXkClXbnZ2dnUVZ_hynnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:xJ6dnSxULuIDylrbnZ2dnUVZ_qainZ2d@giganews.com:
<...>
There was nitpicking what the administration did. They broke the
law and Congress gave them a pass.
*YOU* were nitpicking. The administration broke no laws. You
cannot possibly imagine that the Democrats would give Bush a
pass.
The pass was given by the last Congress, Fredo.
THIS Congress passed the new surveillance law, Geoffie. You know,
the one with the Democrat majority in both houses?
Yes, I know that Fred. The last Congress is the one that gave Bush
the pass.
What pass? He didn't break any laws.
Did he go through FISA to get authorizations? If not, why is this not
illegal?
Because the FISA court didn't have jurisdiction. They said so
themselves.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
“You know the difference between cannibals and liberals? Cannibals only
eat their enemies.” - LBJ
.
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Democrats do what Democrats do best, again. |
20 Aug 2007 01:27:19 PM |
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Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:ja2dnaVWHpFHNlTbnZ2dnUVZ_hKdnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:o8SdnWJjQMiSQVXbnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:Ia2dnWBkHcXkClXbnZ2dnUVZ_hynnZ2d@giganews.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:xJ6dnSxULuIDylrbnZ2dnUVZ_qainZ2d@giganews.com:
<...>
There was nitpicking what the administration did. They broke
the law and Congress gave them a pass.
*YOU* were nitpicking. The administration broke no laws. You
cannot possibly imagine that the Democrats would give Bush a
pass.
The pass was given by the last Congress, Fredo.
THIS Congress passed the new surveillance law, Geoffie. You know,
the one with the Democrat majority in both houses?
Yes, I know that Fred. The last Congress is the one that gave Bush
the pass.
What pass? He didn't break any laws.
Did he go through FISA to get authorizations? If not, why is this not
illegal?
Because the FISA court didn't have jurisdiction. They said so
themselves.
Can you point me to a cite?
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