| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Fredric L. Rice" |
| Date: |
02 Oct 2005 10:17:03 PM |
| Object: |
Demons! Demons among us! |
I've been working on a science fiction book (that's actually about
love, a boy's search for his kidnapped father) that contains a few
selected images extracted from books that have been banned or
oppposed by extremists. It also contains one memorial image
extracted from the first pages of "PS Your Cat is Dead" which is
about a man whose girl friend leaves him, his cat dies, he lost his
job, and he's got a gay thief tied up in his kitchen above the sink.
(The author is the co-author of "A Chorus Line.")
One of the banned books that I read and posted about was "The Goats"
which wasn't about love but _was_ about overthrowing the absurd
expectations of one's peers _and_ one's parents, while retaining a
grip on _legitimate_ expectations from growing youths within a
polite society.
In that book the boy wraps his head in vines and leaves, wraps his
arms and legs, and then walks through town where the girl has been
held against her will. He appears before a woman sitting in her
house, appearing through a full-sized window, pressed up against the
window and grinning, causing her to fall out of her chair and spout
crazily about demons at the window.
It's an image that I've liked since reading it since it boils down
to an expressed fear by the superstitious, ignorant, stupid cultists
who hate and fear nature, bare skin, and a grin on children's faces
when they reject adult's unthinking and unreasoned constraints.
So I'm wondering... Does anyone have any _special_ images that they
really like from obscure books that I might check out and work into
my own science fiction book? I've thought about checking out the
old and fairly obscure, "Manchild in the Promised Land" by nothing
in that could easily be worked into the plot of my book.
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
http://www.rightard.org/ http://www.thedarkwind.org/
Bush is a Christian. Get over it!
"You don't have my permission to take my picture!" - Santa Claus
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| User: "Desertphile" |
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| Title: Re: Demons! Demons among us! |
03 Oct 2005 09:31:38 PM |
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So I'm wondering... Does anyone have any _special_ images that they
really like from obscure books that I might check out and work into
my own science fiction book? I've thought about checking out the
old and fairly obscure, "Manchild in the Promised Land" by nothing
in that could easily be worked into the plot of my book.
"Even Cowgirls get the Blues" has several memorable images. Such as:
1) Young teenage cowgirls in the shower washing their glossy pubic
hairs while giggling.
2) A coup between teenage cowgirls and the owner of the ranch they live
on in which the cowgirls all retreat, drop their pans and panties, and
then advance again upon the enemy.... leading with their crotches.
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: Demons! Demons among us! |
05 Oct 2005 09:34:57 PM |
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"Desertphile" <desertphile@hotmail.com> wrote:
So I'm wondering... Does anyone have any _special_ images that they
really like from obscure books that I might check out and work into
my own science fiction book? I've thought about checking out the
old and fairly obscure, "Manchild in the Promised Land" by nothing
in that could easily be worked into the plot of my book.
"Even Cowgirls get the Blues" has several memorable images. Such as:
1) Young teenage cowgirls in the shower washing their glossy pubic
hairs while giggling.
<ahem> The book has been vetted for language already. I'm not
sure that I can have a bunch of cowboy physics scientists in the
shower in any upcoming chapter.
2) A coup between teenage cowgirls and the owner of the ranch they live
on in which the cowgirls all retreat, drop their pans and panties, and
then advance again upon the enemy.... leading with their crotches.
That one I can use. }:-}
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
http://www.rightard.org/ http://www.thedarkwind.org/
Bush is a Christian. Get over it!
"You don't have my permission to take my picture!" - Santa Claus
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Demons! Demons among us! |
05 Oct 2005 09:42:23 PM |
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I suggest a book called 'The Devil', (Perceptions of Evil from
Antiquity to primitive Christianity ) by Jeffrey Burton Russell.
Hope it helps.
cheers,
Suzana
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| User: "wbarwell" |
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| Title: Re: Demons! Demons among us! |
03 Oct 2005 02:24:02 PM |
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Fredric L. Rice wrote:
I've been working on a science fiction book (that's actually
about love, a boy's search for his kidnapped father) that
contains a few selected images extracted from books that have
been banned or
oppposed by extremists. It also contains one memorial image
extracted from the first pages of "PS Your Cat is Dead" which
is about a man whose girl friend leaves him, his cat dies, he
lost his job, and he's got a gay thief tied up in his kitchen
above the sink. (The author is the co-author of "A Chorus
Line.")
One of the banned books that I read and posted about was "The
Goats" which wasn't about love but _was_ about overthrowing the
absurd expectations of one's peers _and_ one's parents, while
retaining a
grip on _legitimate_ expectations from growing youths within a
polite society.
In that book the boy wraps his head in vines and leaves, wraps
his arms and legs, and then walks through town where the girl
has been
held against her will. He appears before a woman sitting in
her house, appearing through a full-sized window, pressed up
against the window and grinning, causing her to fall out of her
chair and spout crazily about demons at the window.
It's an image that I've liked since reading it since it boils
down to an expressed fear by the superstitious, ignorant,
stupid cultists who hate and fear nature, bare skin, and a grin
on children's faces when they reject adult's unthinking and
unreasoned constraints.
So I'm wondering... Does anyone have any _special_ images that
they really like from obscure books that I might check out and
work into
my own science fiction book? I've thought about checking out
the old and fairly obscure, "Manchild in the Promised Land" by
nothing in that could easily be worked into the plot of my
book.
Long ago, I read some silly Sci Fi short story where a grinning
religous madman in a mental hospital would sit outsdie of a
bench and smile beautifically while a halo of flies would swarm
around his head. I don't remember the book or story.
I always liked that.
There was a book called the Three Christs of Ypsilanti.
In Ypsilanti Wisconsin, psychologist tried to deal with three
schizophrenics who claimed to be Christ by putting them together
in one hospital in one ward. Hopefully they'd soon see they own
delusions miroed by their fellow Christs and realize that they
too were delusional. It didn't work, they had fine theological
discussions together.
Stanley Milgram's Obedience To Authority is the scariest book in
the world. Wse make our own demons. Its easy.
William S. Burroughs had some wooly nonsense.
naked Lunch and Wild Boys
--
The official spokesman of the Foxes said
today that investigation into what happened
to the henhouse may be needed.
Cheerful Charlie
.
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: Demons! Demons among us! |
03 Oct 2005 09:22:45 PM |
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wbarwell <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
Fredric L. Rice wrote:
Long ago, I read some silly Sci Fi short story where a grinning
religous madman in a mental hospital would sit outsdie of a
bench and smile beautifically while a halo of flies would swarm
around his head. I don't remember the book or story.
I always liked that.
Yike! That's kind of a disturbing image.
Stanley Milgram's Obedience To Authority is the scariest book in
the world. Wse make our own demons. Its easy.
William S. Burroughs had some wooly nonsense.
naked Lunch and Wild Boys
Interesting. I'll see if I can find "Obedience" in the local library.
Thanks!
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
http://www.rightard.org/ http://www.thedarkwind.org/
Bush is a Christian. Get over it!
"You don't have my permission to take my picture!" - Santa Claus
.
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| User: "Michelle Malkin" |
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| Title: Re: Demons! Demons among us! |
03 Oct 2005 11:24:57 PM |
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"Fredric L. Rice" <FRice@SkepticTank.ORG> wrote in message
news:11k3pt0rbkbq4c0@corp.supernews.com...
wbarwell <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
Fredric L. Rice wrote:
Long ago, I read some silly Sci Fi short story where a grinning
religous madman in a mental hospital would sit outsdie of a
bench and smile beautifically while a halo of flies would swarm
around his head. I don't remember the book or story.
I always liked that.
Yike! That's kind of a disturbing image.
And, that reminds me of Norman Bates at the end of "Psycho"
sitting in his chair wrapped in a blanket, thinking in his mother's
voice, with a big grin on his face, that he wouldn't hurt a fly.
Stanley Milgram's Obedience To Authority is the scariest book in
the world. Wse make our own demons. Its easy.
William S. Burroughs had some wooly nonsense.
naked Lunch and Wild Boys
Interesting. I'll see if I can find "Obedience" in the local library.
Thanks!
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
http://www.rightard.org/ http://www.thedarkwind.org/
Bush is a Christian. Get over it!
"You don't have my permission to take my picture!" - Santa Claus
.
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| User: "wbarwell" |
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| Title: Re: Demons! Demons among us! |
04 Oct 2005 02:28:30 AM |
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Fredric L. Rice wrote:
wbarwell <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
Fredric L. Rice wrote:
Long ago, I read some silly Sci Fi short story where a grinning
religous madman in a mental hospital would sit outsdie of a
bench and smile beautifically while a halo of flies would swarm
around his head. I don't remember the book or story.
I always liked that.
Yike! That's kind of a disturbing image.
Alice Cooper did a song with that title which was
taken later by a band for their name. I always wondered if
Cooper had read the same story I did, but I doubt it.
Stanley Milgram's Obedience To Authority is the scariest book
in
the world. Wse make our own demons. Its easy.
William S. Burroughs had some wooly nonsense.
naked Lunch and Wild Boys
Interesting. I'll see if I can find "Obedience" in the local
library.
Thanks!
The original experiment, which was also written up in a long
article for Harpers is on the net.
Basically, Milgram ran an psychological experiment ostentiably
to test people's memories. The 'test' was a switch and bait
experiment that put people in a position to torture another human
being at behest of an authority figure. It turned out to be
surprisingly easy.
To get people to do this you needed only two things, people's
express agreement to act on your orders and that you are seen as
an authority.
Even if you perform switch and bait as Milgram did, people still
act on orders.
The 'psychologists' and 'test subjects' were actors.
It involved shocks administered for failure to perform properly
on the memory 'tests'. As the tests went on the shocks
increased until the tests ammounted to obvious torture
and extreme pain, (though that never really happened it was a
well trained act).
Far more people than predicted did it.
If at any point people refused to act, even tentively, the test
run was halted.
The 'psychologists' had a commanding attitude and props. A white
coat and a clip board. They had a set speil they were to use.
When people atarted protesting as things got out of hand they had
a set patter, "You must go on", you agreed to do this" and a few
othee similar phrases. they were forbidden to say anything else.
That is all it took. We think of Nazis with guns and, or
Communist red army members with submachine guns, and its
understandable that people would do things faced with
force like this.
Milgram is far more frightening. He found how to get people to
torture other people with a few white coats and clip boards.
That is an image that has always stuck in my mind.
And all he had to have the actor say was "you agreed to help".
You must go on".
That is very frightening that a few little phrases could cause so
much evil.
"You must go on".
I have always though these white coats and repeated phrases had
to me, a very Orwellian feel to them far more chilling than
threats of torture Orwell used. Milgram did not need even that.
Just a few white coats and clip board, symbols of an authority
the agreed to help.
Later Milgram ran a series of experiments.
This was in the 60's pre-woman's lib, women were not seen as
authorities.
And when women wore the coats many less would torture at their
command. Fumbling, incompetent Laurel and Hardy acts by
the 'psychologists' also lost them their authority in eyes of
many experimentees. So did authorities who argued among
themselves.
Still white lab coats and a clip board is as frightening to me as
anything I can imagine because it represents how weak minded
many people really are and how easily lead into torture with
a few simple repeated phrases.
No threats, no force, no extensive indoctrination.
So there is an image for you.
The whole thing so horrified so many people these sort
of tests were quickly banned as too disturbing and
extreme.
This sort of test before this was banned were repeated more or
less extensively with the same results. Milgram's test was not
a fluke.
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
http://www.rightard.org/ http://www.thedarkwind.org/
Bush is a Christian. Get over it!
"You don't have my permission to take my picture!" - Santa
Claus
--
The official spokesman of the Foxes said
today that investigation into what happened
to the henhouse may be needed.
Cheerful Charlie
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Demons! Demons among us! |
02 Oct 2005 11:27:26 PM |
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The reason I don't want one-world-govt. is that a person has the right
to wear a headscarf if she believes in it and believes it pleases God,
and since France doesn't honor this right, I don't want a France-like
one-world UN Government that outlaws religion like France does, in an
effort to civilize those backwards dark-skinned religions by forbidding
girls from wearing headscarves and the like.
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