| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Sound of Trumpet" |
| Date: |
16 Oct 2006 11:15:00 AM |
| Object: |
Descendants Of King David Plan To Meet In Jerusalem |
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1712721/posts
King David's 'progeny' to meet amid revolution in Jewish genealogy
Jerusalem Post ^ | Oct. 3, 2006 | Adina Greene
Posted on 10/03/2006 6:40:08 AM PDT by Alouette
They are coming from all over the world to claim their royal heritage.
First, on October 19, they will meet in New York City at the inaugural
dinner of the Davidic Dynasty organization. Then, in May, a mass
reunion is planned for Jerusalem.
They say they are descendants of King David. They have the oral family
traditions, rabbinic texts and historical research to back up their
claims. And the way Jewish genealogy is thriving, their ranks may swell
in the coming years.
Davidic Dynasty, a project of the Eshet Chayil Foundation, has compiled
a partial list of David's purported descendants. Their get-together, to
be held at the Museum of Jewish Heritage, will honor Manhattan District
Attorney Robert Morgenthau and Rebbetzin Esther Jungreis - both of whom
are believed to be descended from David.
Other illustrious Jewish figures down the centuries who traced their
ancestry back to David include Hillel, Rabban Gamliel, Rabbi Yehuda
Hanasi, Yochanan Hasandler and Yosef Karo. More contemporary leaders
include the Baal Shem Tov, Rabbi Nachman of Breslov, the Lubavitcher
Rebbe and former president Chaim Herzog.
And nowadays, it's easier than ever to comb back through Jewish family
roots and, who knows, maybe identify your own eminent ancestor.
A generation ago, most people relied on their oldest living relatives
to learn about their family's history. The revolution was fuelled by
the fall of Communism, and the new records that became available,
allied to the proliferation of home computers.
In January, the International Institute for Jewish Genealogy opened at
the Jewish National and University Library at the Hebrew University's
Givat Ram campus. The institute's director, Dr. Neville Y. Lamdan, and
several colleagues had wanted to open such an institute for years, but
it had to wait until he stepped down as ambassador to the Vatican. "We
came back to the idea with a great deal of energy and with a lot of
intensive work," Lamdan said. "The group nominated me to be the
director and that's how I find myself involved and over my head."
Now Lamdan plans to advance Jewish genealogy so it can be taught at the
university level.
"People were groping around feeling that somehow [Jewish genealogy]
should be institutionalized. But what sort of institution? What would
it do? The answer: engage in research and, if possible, teaching at a
university level," Lamdan said.
The institute has three research projects under way, including two in
conjunction with foreign universities.
The Sephardic DNA and Migration project, which the institute is
performing in cooperation with the Universities of Haifa, Arizona and
New York, uses DNA to tracks the male members of a family back to
pre-expulsion Spain.
The institute's second project is called Rebuilding Destroyed
Communities. Researchers are trying to reconstruct what community life
was like in three towns in Poland and Lithuania before the Holocaust.
The Jacobi Indexing project, finally, is being carried out by Dr.
Chanan Rapapport. Paul Jacobi, an eminent genealogist, left the
National and University Library some 400 genealogical studies which he
had done, mainly on rabbinical lineages in Germany. Most of the studies
require additional research.
Rapapport shares Lamdan's desire to raise genealogy to an academic
level. "It's a combination between... developing curricula and teaching
aids for university level and doing research which is beyond the
horizon of the individual hobbyists," Rapapport said in a phone
interview. "Research that interests many, many families, not just one
family."
Lamdan said he was looking ahead to new challenges.
"More and more source material which contains sources for Jewish
genealogy is being uncovered," he said, and can be filmed and
reproduced digitally.
"There are also other archives in certain countries, including in the
Muslim world, where we know there is material. Hopefully we can
negotiate access."
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Descendants Of King David Plan To Meet In Jerusalem |
16 Oct 2006 03:21:16 PM |
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"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@myway.com> wrote in message
news:1161015300.885517.138800@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1712721/posts
King David's 'progeny' to meet amid revolution in Jewish genealogy
Yeah...David...right. The likelihood of his historicity is only slightly
better than Jesus'.
Oh, and I'm a direct descendent of Alexander. Prove me wrong.
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| User: "Martin" |
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| Title: Re: Descendants Of King David Plan To Meet In Jerusalem |
16 Oct 2006 04:45:57 PM |
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"Geoff" <geoff@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:uL-dnejyKL8jdK7YnZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@myway.com> wrote in message
news:1161015300.885517.138800@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1712721/posts
King David's 'progeny' to meet amid revolution in Jewish genealogy
Yeah...David...right. The likelihood of his historicity is only slightly
better than Jesus'.
Oh, and I'm a direct descendent of Alexander. Prove me wrong.
I trust David Spencer Hines will attend? The name alone must be enough to get
him in?
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Descendants Of King David Plan To Meet In Jerusalem |
16 Oct 2006 05:24:34 PM |
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On 16-Oct-2006, "Martin" <martin.reboul@spamfuktiscali.co.uk> wrote:
"Geoff" <geoff@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:uL-dnejyKL8jdK7YnZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@myway.com> wrote in message
news:1161015300.885517.138800@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1712721/posts
King David's 'progeny' to meet amid revolution in Jewish genealogy
Yeah...David...right. The likelihood of his historicity is only slightly
better than Jesus'.
Oh, and I'm a direct descendent of Alexander. Prove me wrong.
I trust David Spencer Hines will attend? The name alone must be enough to
get
him in?
Yeah, this isn't like the Kohanim or Leiim, where there are DNA tests that
can go a long way to determining lineage. How CAN they tell??? (Yes, this is
a rhetorical question, tho' I am interested in the fairy tale they obviously
tell).
Susan
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| User: "Niels L Ellegaard" |
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| Title: Re: Descendants Of King David Plan To Meet In Jerusalem |
17 Oct 2006 08:49:44 AM |
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wrote:
Yeah, this isn't like the Kohanim or Leiim, where there are DNA tests that
can go a long way to determining lineage. How CAN they tell??? (Yes, this is
a rhetorical question, tho' I am interested in the fairy tale they obviously
tell).
Assume that Davis lived 3000 years ago (citing from wikipedia rather
than the holy texts.... sorry). Assume that each generation lasts for
30 years and leaves two offsprings. This leads to a number of 2^100 (or
10^30) offsprings which is probably a bit too high, but I still think
we can conclude that a very large percentage of the jews must somehow
be genetically related to David.
In comparison you can have a look at the percentage of Icelanders
people that are related to Egil Skatlagrimson. (As far as I understand
the genetics of all the icelanders is indexed and used for genetic
research)
I must congratulate the original poster on a well-done troll.
Crossposting the soc.history.medieval and soc.culture.jewish on this
topic was a glimpse of genius, but now I will destroy the fun by
setting follow-up to soc.history.ancient
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Descendants Of King David Plan To Meet In Jerusalem |
17 Oct 2006 01:44:58 PM |
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On 17-Oct-2006, "Niels L Ellegaard" <niels.ellegaard@gmail.com> wrote:
flaviaR@verizon.net wrote:
Yeah, this isn't like the Kohanim or Leiim, where there are DNA tests
that
can go a long way to determining lineage. How CAN they tell??? (Yes,
this is
a rhetorical question, tho' I am interested in the fairy tale they
obviously
tell).
Assume that Davis lived 3000 years ago (citing from wikipedia rather
than the holy texts.... sorry). Assume that each generation lasts for
30 years and leaves two offsprings. This leads to a number of 2^100 (or
10^30) offsprings which is probably a bit too high, but I still think
we can conclude that a very large percentage of the jews must somehow
be genetically related to David.
TYhis makes sense, but I remember having this same discussion vis a vis
Moses, and'the person on your side of the disucssion got very upset when
I mentioned the DNA evidence that I quoted above.
Why he didn't turn around and say that lots of people might also be found
with this DNA in them, I don't know :-)
In comparison you can have a look at the percentage of Icelanders
people that are related to Egil Skatlagrimson. (As far as I understand
the genetics of all the icelanders is indexed and used for genetic
research)
Which sounds fascinating - I didn't know that.
I must congratulate the original poster on a well-done troll.
Crossposting the soc.history.medieval and soc.culture.jewish on this
topic was a glimpse of genius, but now I will destroy the fun by
setting follow-up to soc.history.ancient
Oh, now I have to apologize: my newsreader down;t recognize follow-ups.
And, worse still, I can't set them myself.
The nerds who make the software don't even know what I mean when I
explsin to them what one is, so they can include it in their upgrade!!
Susan
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Descendants Of King David Plan To Meet In Jerusalem |
17 Oct 2006 02:38:39 PM |
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In <Kw9Zg.4893$IW6.2996@trndny01>, on 10/17/06
at 06:44 PM, said:
On 17-Oct-2006, "Niels L Ellegaard" <niels.ellegaard@gmail.com> wrote:
wrote:
snip
I must congratulate the original poster on a well-done troll.
Crossposting the soc.history.medieval and soc.culture.jewish on this
topic was a glimpse of genius, but now I will destroy the fun by
setting follow-up to soc.history.ancient
Oh, now I have to apologize: my newsreader down;t recognize follow-ups.
And, worse still, I can't set them myself.
http://www.nonags.com/nonags/newsr.html
A rather good selection of newsreaders/mail cliuents that do follow usenet
conventions, such as followups.
HTH
snip
Susan
walksalone who started with newsreader for OS/2, which is not fun at
all.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Descendants Of King David Plan To Meet In Jerusalem |
17 Oct 2006 10:36:20 PM |
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On 17-Oct-2006, wrote:
Oh, now I have to apologize: my newsreader down;t recognize follow-ups.
And, worse still, I can't set them myself.
http://www.nonags.com/nonags/newsr.html
A rather good selection of newsreaders/mail cliuents that do follow usenet
conventions, such as followups.
Thank you so much!!
Susan
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Descendants Of King David Plan To Meet In Jerusalem |
16 Oct 2006 10:20:47 PM |
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On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 22:24:34 GMT, wrote:
Yeah, this isn't like the Kohanim or Leiim, where there are DNA tests that
can go a long way to determining lineage. How CAN they tell??? (Yes, this is
a rhetorical question, tho' I am interested in the fairy tale they obviously
tell).
Their claim is a fairy tale but your claim is 'gospel'.
Sugar on your oatmeal or no?
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is
a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the
crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due
to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious
indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility
corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of
nature and of our own being."
- Albert Einstein to Guy H. Raner Jr., Sept. 28, 1949, from article by
Michael R. Gilmore in Skeptic magazine, Vol. 5, No. 2, 1997
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Descendants Of King David Plan To Meet In Jerusalem |
17 Oct 2006 08:56:30 AM |
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Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in alt.atheism
flaviaR@verizon.net wrote:
Yeah, this isn't like the Kohanim or Leiim, where there are DNA tests that
can go a long way to determining lineage. How CAN they tell??? (Yes, this is
a rhetorical question, tho' I am interested in the fairy tale they obviously
tell).
Their claim is a fairy tale but your claim is 'gospel'.
Sugar on your oatmeal or no?
Has someone found the bones of King David to do a DNA test on
that I missed?
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Descendants Of King David Plan To Meet In Jerusalem |
17 Oct 2006 09:53:32 AM |
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On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 13:56:30 GMT, Elroy Willis
<elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in alt.atheism
flaviaR@verizon.net wrote:
Yeah, this isn't like the Kohanim or Leiim, where there are DNA tests that
can go a long way to determining lineage. How CAN they tell??? (Yes, this is
a rhetorical question, tho' I am interested in the fairy tale they obviously
tell).
Their claim is a fairy tale but your claim is 'gospel'.
Sugar on your oatmeal or no?
Has someone found the bones of King David to do a DNA test on
that I missed?
The ones in the Jesus ossuary would do - he was a direct descendent of
David. Or we could do a DNA test on his prepuce. Or any of the other
tons of body parts known to exist. (Jesus was larger than life.)
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
The most curious social convention of the great age in which we live is the
one to the effect that religious opinions should be respected.
-- H. L. Mencken
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Descendants Of King David Plan To Meet In Jerusalem |
17 Oct 2006 10:17:41 AM |
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Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in alt.atheism
flaviaR@verizon.net wrote:
Yeah, this isn't like the Kohanim or Leiim, where there are DNA tests
that can go a long way to determining lineage. How CAN they tell???
(Yes, this is a rhetorical question, tho' I am interested in the fairy tale
they obviously tell).
Their claim is a fairy tale but your claim is 'gospel'.
Sugar on your oatmeal or no?
Has someone found the bones of King David to do a DNA test on
that I missed?
The ones in the Jesus ossuary would do - he was a direct descendent
of David. Or we could do a DNA test on his prepuce. Or any of the other
tons of body parts known to exist. (Jesus was larger than life.)
Aren't there some bones of Mary buried somewhere?
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Descendants Of King David Plan To Meet In Jerusalem |
17 Oct 2006 01:16:15 PM |
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On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 15:17:41 GMT, Elroy Willis
<elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in alt.atheism
flaviaR@verizon.net wrote:
Yeah, this isn't like the Kohanim or Leiim, where there are DNA tests
that can go a long way to determining lineage. How CAN they tell???
(Yes, this is a rhetorical question, tho' I am interested in the fairy tale
they obviously tell).
Their claim is a fairy tale but your claim is 'gospel'.
Sugar on your oatmeal or no?
Has someone found the bones of King David to do a DNA test on
that I missed?
The ones in the Jesus ossuary would do - he was a direct descendent
of David. Or we could do a DNA test on his prepuce. Or any of the other
tons of body parts known to exist. (Jesus was larger than life.)
Aren't there some bones of Mary buried somewhere?
If she ever lived I'm sure there are. Unless God took them up to
Heaven, they'd have to buried somewhere.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"If anyone comes to me, and does not hate his father, mother, wife, brothers, and sisters and even himself, he cannot be my disciple."
Luke 14:26
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Descendants Of King David Plan To Meet In Jerusalem |
18 Oct 2006 01:12:56 PM |
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Geoff wrote:
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@myway.com> wrote in message
news:1161015300.885517.138800@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1712721/posts
King David's 'progeny' to meet amid revolution in Jewish genealogy
Yeah...David...right. The likelihood of his historicity is only slightly
better than Jesus'.
Oh, and I'm a direct descendent of Alexander. Prove me wrong.
Alexander the Great's line died out. David had a large harem, and
many descendants, so I suspect that everyone living who has ancestors
living around the Mediterranean is a descendant of King David. That
would include just about everyone now living in North Africa, Europe,
and the Middle East, and a good portion of the Americas and Australia
as well.
http://tedlab.mit.edu/~dr/Papers/Rohde-MRCA-two.pdf
- A. McIntire
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Descendants Of King David Plan To Meet In Jerusalem |
18 Oct 2006 05:34:34 PM |
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wrote:
David had a large harem, and many descendants,
What's the upward limit of descendants for fictional
characters?
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Descendants Of King David Plan To Meet In Jerusalem |
18 Oct 2006 06:29:18 PM |
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JTEM wrote:
alanmc95210@yahoo.com wrote:
David had a large harem, and many descendants,
What's the upward limit of descendants for fictional
characters?
I doubt that David was fictional. I'm sure the story about
Bathsheeba was true- David was an even bigger sleaze than Clinton- A.
McIntire
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Descendants Of King David Plan To Meet In Jerusalem |
18 Oct 2006 06:57:50 PM |
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wrote:
I doubt that David was fictional.
I don't. Not for one second.
He may have been based on a real king (most likely
one of the Libyan kings of Egypt), but the David of
the bible never existed.
There's plenty of fictional characters based on real
people. That doesn't make them any less fictional.
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| User: "Matt Giwer" |
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| Title: Re: Descendants Of King David Plan To Meet In Jerusalem |
16 Oct 2006 11:49:24 PM |
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Geoff wrote:
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@myway.com> wrote in message
news:1161015300.885517.138800@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1712721/posts
King David's 'progeny' to meet amid revolution in Jewish genealogy
Yeah...David...right. The likelihood of his historicity is only slightly
better than Jesus'.
Oh, and I'm a direct descendent of Alexander. Prove me wrong.
During the middle ages all the nobility of Europe had geneologies created
showing their descent from David. There are many sources from old documents upon
which to base this con game. I am descended from nobility of some sort and there
are some 60 others I know of in my generation alone just from one part of the
country. I know there are others around the US and I presume many in Europe who
never left. I'm certain there are many more than that. I'd be surprised if
there is anyone alive who does not have some sort of nobility in their ancestry.
Given the middle ages geneologies there should be "evidence" that everyone has
David as an ancestor. So the scam is legal if one simply connects a simple
geneology with one of those old ones.
--
Bush's reason for staying in Iraq is the disaster he caused by invading.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3715
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
commentary http://www.giwersworld.org/opinion/running.phtml a5
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Descendants Of King David Plan To Meet In Jerusalem |
17 Oct 2006 09:23:46 AM |
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Matt Giwer <jull43@tampabay.REMover.rr.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Geoff wrote:
Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrumpet@myway.com> wrote in message
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1712721/posts
King David's 'progeny' to meet amid revolution in Jewish genealogy
Yeah...David...right. The likelihood of his historicity is only slightly
better than Jesus'.
Oh, and I'm a direct descendent of Alexander. Prove me wrong.
During the middle ages all the nobility of Europe had geneologies created
showing their descent from David. There are many sources from old documents upon
which to base this con game. I am descended from nobility of some sort and there
are some 60 others I know of in my generation alone just from one part of the
country. I know there are others around the US and I presume many in Europe who
never left. I'm certain there are many more than that. I'd be surprised if
there is anyone alive who does not have some sort of nobility in their ancestry.
Given the middle ages geneologies there should be "evidence" that everyone has
David as an ancestor. So the scam is legal if one simply connects a simple
geneology with one of those old ones.
Is this just a ploy so that just about anybody can become the next
Jewish messiah?
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Descendants Of King David Plan To Meet In Jerusalem |
18 Oct 2006 04:21:44 AM |
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Elroy Willis wrote:
Matt Giwer <jull43@tampabay.REMover.rr.com> wrote
[---snip---]
Is this just a ploy so that just about anybody can become
the next Jewish messiah?
Read his own links in his sig. file. Giwer is a holocaust
denying, anti-semitic psycho.
Don't give the maggot the time of day.
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| User: "Matt Giwer" |
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| Title: Re: Descendants Of King David Plan To Meet In Jerusalem |
18 Oct 2006 08:46:26 PM |
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JTEM wrote:
Elroy Willis wrote:
Matt Giwer <jull43@tampabay.REMover.rr.com> wrote
[---snip---]
Is this just a ploy so that just about anybody can become
the next Jewish messiah?
Read his own links in his sig. file. Giwer is a holocaust
denying, anti-semitic psycho.
Don't give the maggot the time of day.
And you are a stupid ***** who believes without physical evidence. So what is
your point?
--
800,000 Lebanese are refugees from Israeli aggression. That is like
60,000,000 American refugees from Israeli aggression.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3694
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
flying saucers http://www.giwersworld.org/flyingsa.html a2
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Descendants Of King David Plan To Meet In Jerusalem |
18 Oct 2006 10:51:35 PM |
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Matt Giwer wrote:
And you are a stupid ***** who believes without
physical evidence.
You're a fucking piece of worthless *****.
have you ever talked to some of the soldiers who liberated
the camps? I have.
You want to pretend that they're all Jews? They weren't.
I've personally met and spoke to four of them. Not prisoners,
not "Israelis," but U.S. soldiers who personally witnessed
the camps and other atrocities.
You're a sick pig fucker who calls them liars out of your
lust for malice.
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| User: "Mark D J. Mark D" |
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| Title: Re: Descendants Of King David Plan To Meet In Jerusalem |
19 Oct 2006 12:11:37 AM |
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"JTEM" <jtem01@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1161229895.915555.233490@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Matt Giwer wrote:
And you are a stupid ***** who believes without
physical evidence.
You're a fucking piece of worthless *****.
have you ever talked to some of the soldiers who liberated
the camps? I have.
Matt, have you got a link to something that summarises your thoughts on this
topic? I respect you for your thoughts on other topics, and would like to
know why you think you know what you think you know about this one.
Thanks.
M.
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| User: "Matt Giwer" |
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| Title: Re: Descendants Of King David Plan To Meet In Jerusalem |
19 Oct 2006 02:10:46 AM |
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Mark D J. wrote:
"JTEM" <jtem01@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1161229895.915555.233490@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Matt Giwer wrote:
And you are a stupid ***** who believes without
physical evidence.
You're a fucking piece of worthless *****.
have you ever talked to some of the soldiers who liberated
the camps? I have.
Matt, have you got a link to something that summarises your thoughts on this
topic? I respect you for your thoughts on other topics, and would like to
know why you think you know what you think you know about this one.
http://www.giwersworld.org/holo/
http://www.giwersworld.org/holo2/
http://www.giwersworld.org/holo3/
I find believers have no idea what they are required to believe. They really
know next to nothing about the subject. They attack as though they were the
wrath of god defending the truth even they are ignorant of the material.
A link in my sig talks about the nizkooks of kanada constantly trying to spread
their forgeries. They did their forgery exercise simply because I kept showing
ignorant believers they are. A post without headers is a forgery, period.
--
No one could ever accuse Judaism of being a religion of peace.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3690
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
book review http://www.giwersworld.org/israel/willing-executioners.phtml a7
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| User: "Mark D J. Mark D" |
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| Title: Re: Descendants Of King David Plan To Meet In Jerusalem |
19 Oct 2006 12:57:51 PM |
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"Matt Giwer" <jull43@tampabay.REMover.rr.com> wrote in message
news:WxFZg.32482$YO.2807@tornado.tampabay.rr.
Matt, have you got a link to something that summarises your thoughts on
this topic? I respect you for your thoughts on other topics, and would
like to know why you think you know what you think you know about this
one.
http://www.giwersworld.org/holo/
http://www.giwersworld.org/holo2/
http://www.giwersworld.org/holo3/
I find believers have no idea what they are required to believe. They
really know next to nothing about the subject. They attack as though they
were the wrath of god defending the truth even they are ignorant of the
material.
Ta for this. Forgive me for not having come to any conclusion yet: it's
obviously a very big topic.
M.
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| User: "Matt Giwer" |
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| Title: Re: Descendants Of King David Plan To Meet In Jerusalem |
19 Oct 2006 08:38:01 PM |
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Mark D J. wrote:
"Matt Giwer" <jull43@tampabay.REMover.rr.com> wrote in message
news:WxFZg.32482$YO.2807@tornado.tampabay.rr.
Matt, have you got a link to something that summarises your thoughts on
this topic? I respect you for your thoughts on other topics, and would
like to know why you think you know what you think you know about this
one.
http://www.giwersworld.org/holo/
http://www.giwersworld.org/holo2/
http://www.giwersworld.org/holo3/
I find believers have no idea what they are required to believe. They
really know next to nothing about the subject. They attack as though they
were the wrath of god defending the truth even they are ignorant of the
material.
Ta for this. Forgive me for not having come to any conclusion yet: it's
obviously a very big topic.
I have no interest in what conclusion you come to or if you do at all. That is
your business. The events are all ancient history. That it is treated as a
secular religion today is the only reason I bothered with it. It brings out very
inhuman emotions as described in the article that we can't understand them.
--
Hodie decimo quarto Kalendas Octobres MMVI est
-- The Ferric Webceasar
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
antisemitism http://www.giwersworld.org/antisem/ a1
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| User: "Matt Giwer" |
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| Title: Re: Descendants Of King David Plan To Meet In Jerusalem |
19 Oct 2006 01:58:32 AM |
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JTEM wrote:
Matt Giwer wrote:
And you are a stupid ***** who believes without
physical evidence.
You're a fucking piece of worthless *****.
have you ever talked to some of the soldiers who liberated
the camps? I have.
The issue is gas chambers only. Only Russian troops liberated camps with gas
chambers. How many Russian troops have you talked to?
You want to pretend that they're all Jews? They weren't.
I've personally met and spoke to four of them. Not prisoners,
not "Israelis," but U.S. soldiers who personally witnessed
the camps and other atrocities.
As you spoke with no one who liberated camps with gas chambers what is your point?
You're a sick pig fucker who calls them liars out of your
lust for malice.
What does that have to do with gas chambers?
--
Is George Bush an idiot? No. He just plays one on TV.
-- The Iron webmaster, 3716
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
flying saucers http://www.giwersworld.org/flyingsa.html a2
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| User: "Matt Giwer" |
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| Title: Re: Descendants Of King David Plan To Meet In Jerusalem |
17 Oct 2006 06:01:29 PM |
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Elroy Willis wrote:
Matt Giwer <jull43@tampabay.REMover.rr.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Geoff wrote:
Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrumpet@myway.com> wrote in message
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1712721/posts
King David's 'progeny' to meet amid revolution in Jewish genealogy
Yeah...David...right. The likelihood of his historicity is only slightly
better than Jesus'.
Oh, and I'm a direct descendent of Alexander. Prove me wrong.
During the middle ages all the nobility of Europe had geneologies created
showing their descent from David. There are many sources from old documents upon
which to base this con game. I am descended from nobility of some sort and there
are some 60 others I know of in my generation alone just from one part of the
country. I know there are others around the US and I presume many in Europe who
never left. I'm certain there are many more than that. I'd be surprised if
there is anyone alive who does not have some sort of nobility in their ancestry.
Given the middle ages geneologies there should be "evidence" that everyone has
David as an ancestor. So the scam is legal if one simply connects a simple
geneology with one of those old ones.
Is this just a ploy so that just about anybody can become the next
Jewish messiah?
No connection. Being a king is inherited therefore having a king in one's
ancestry meant a person was a king by birth. And as David was chosen by god then
the king had something extra going for him. It helped newly minted kings obviously.
And with David in the lineage that also included the Jesus lineage as an
offshoot which put them firmly in the Christian camp.
Can you say, divine right of kings?
--
If the gang rape and murder of an entire family had happened in Boulder,
Colorado it would have been prime time news in the US for ten years. But it
happened in Iraq by Americans.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3706
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
Blame Israel http://www.ussliberty.org a10
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Descendants Of King David Plan To Meet In Jerusalem |
18 Oct 2006 08:27:54 AM |
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Matt Giwer <jull43@tampabay.REMover.rr.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis wrote:
Matt Giwer <jull43@tampabay.REMover.rr.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Geoff wrote:
During the middle ages all the nobility of Europe had geneologies created
showing their descent from David. There are many sources from old documents upon
which to base this con game. I am descended from nobility of some sort and there
are some 60 others I know of in my generation alone just from one part of the
country. I know there are others around the US and I presume many in Europe who
never left. I'm certain there are many more than that. I'd be surprised if
there is anyone alive who does not have some sort of nobility in their ancestry.
Given the middle ages geneologies there should be "evidence" that everyone has
David as an ancestor. So the scam is legal if one simply connects a simple
geneology with one of those old ones.
Is this just a ploy so that just about anybody can become the next
Jewish messiah?
No connection. Being a king is inherited therefore having a king in one's
ancestry meant a person was a king by birth. And as David was chosen by
god then the king had something extra going for him. It helped newly minted
kings obviously.
And with David in the lineage that also included the Jesus lineage as an
offshoot which put them firmly in the Christian camp.
Can you say, divine right of kings?
Have modern Jews who still hope for a messiah given up on the idea
that the messiah must be descended from David? If some messiah does
come about, will someone make up some fake lineages like the writers
of the NT did?
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "Matt Giwer" |
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| Title: Re: Descendants Of King David Plan To Meet In Jerusalem |
18 Oct 2006 08:45:32 PM |
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Elroy Willis wrote:
Matt Giwer <jull43@tampabay.REMover.rr.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis wrote:
Matt Giwer <jull43@tampabay.REMover.rr.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Geoff wrote:
During the middle ages all the nobility of Europe had geneologies created
showing their descent from David. There are many sources from old documents upon
which to base this con game. I am descended from nobility of some sort and there
are some 60 others I know of in my generation alone just from one part of the
country. I know there are others around the US and I presume many in Europe who
never left. I'm certain there are many more than that. I'd be surprised if
there is anyone alive who does not have some sort of nobility in their ancestry.
Given the middle ages geneologies there should be "evidence" that everyone has
David as an ancestor. So the scam is legal if one simply connects a simple
geneology with one of those old ones.
Is this just a ploy so that just about anybody can become the next
Jewish messiah?
No connection. Being a king is inherited therefore having a king in one's
ancestry meant a person was a king by birth. And as David was chosen by
god then the king had something extra going for him. It helped newly minted
kings obviously.
And with David in the lineage that also included the Jesus lineage as an
offshoot which put them firmly in the Christian camp.
Can you say, divine right of kings?
Have modern Jews who still hope for a messiah given up on the idea
that the messiah must be descended from David? If some messiah does
come about, will someone make up some fake lineages like the writers
of the NT did?
I charge $200 to predict the future. I will send you my addr if you are interested.
--
Man: I do not accept what I do not see with my own eyes.
God: I made you to see what is contrary to your eyes.
Man: I made myself to see as I wish so I am as powerful as you.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3692
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
http://www.giwersworld.org
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Descendants Of King David Plan To Meet In Jerusalem |
16 Oct 2006 10:47:26 PM |
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Geoff wrote:
Yeah...David...right. The likelihood of his historicity
is only slightly better than Jesus'.
Better? I'd say that it is considerably worse.
It seems to me at this point that the best argument for
his existence is that he was based on the leader of a
neighboring country -- Egypt, for example.
I'd day the difference between David & Jesus is that we
have no real evidence -- either way -- for Jesus, while
we have plenty of evidence for discounting the David
story.
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