Did God Really Create Evil?

Religions > Atheism > Did God Really Create Evil?

LINK TO THIS PAGE

rating : 0 | 0

Page 1 of 2

Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"emsguy"
Date:	16 Oct 2003 05:02:22 PM
Object:	Did God Really Create Evil?

"LET ME EXPLAIN THE problem science has with Jesus Christ." The
atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks
one of his new students to stand. "You're a Christian, aren't you,
son?"
"Yes, sir."
"So you believe in God?"
"Absolutely."
"Is God good?"
"Sure! God's good."
"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"
"Yes."
"Are you good or evil?"
"The Bible says I'm evil."
The professor grins knowingly. "Ahh! THE BIBLE!" He considers for
a moment. "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over
here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help them? Would
you try?"
"Yes sir, I would."
"So you're good...!"
"I wouldn't say that."
"Why not say that? You would help a sick and maimed person if you
could...in fact most of us would if we could....God doesn't."
[No answer]
"He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of
cancer even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus
good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?"
[No answer]
The elderly man is sympathetic. "No, you can't, can you?" He
takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time
to relax. "In philosophy, you have to go easy with the new ones. Let's
start again, young fella. Is God good?"
"Er... Yes."
"Is Satan good?"
"No."
"Where does Satan come from?"
The student falters. "From... God..."
"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he?" The elderly man runs
his bony fingers through his thinning hair and turns to the smirking
student audience. "I think we're going to have a lot of fun this
semester, ladies and gentlemen." He turns back to the Christian. "Tell
me, son. Is there evil in this world?"
"Yes, sir."
"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? Did God make everything?"
"Yes."
"Who created evil?"
[No answer]
"Is there sickness in this world? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness.
All the terrible things - do they exist in this world? "
The student squirms on his feet. "Yes."
"Who created them?"
[No answer]
The professor suddenly shouts at his student, "WHO CREATED THEM?
TELL ME, PLEASE!" The professor closes in for the kill and climbs into
the Christian's face. In a still small voice, he asked, "God created
all evil, didn't He, son?"
[No answer]
The student tries to hold the steady, experienced gaze and fails.
Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace the front of the classroom
like an aging panther. The class is mesmerized. "Tell me," he
continues, "How is it that this God is good if He created all evil
throughout all time?" The professor swishes his arms around to
encompass the wickedness of the world. "All the hatred, the brutality,
all the pain, all the torture, all the death and ugliness and all the
suffering created by this good God is all over the world, isn't it,
young man?"
[No answer]
"Don't you see it all over the place? Huh?" Pause. "Don't you?"
The professor leans into the student's face again and
whispers, "Is God good?"
[No answer]
"Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?"
The student's voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes, professor. I
do."
The old man shakes his head sadly. "Science says you have five
senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you
ever seen Jesus?"
"No, sir. I've never seen Him."
"Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"
"No, sir. I have not."
"Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your
Jesus... in fact, do you have any sensory perception of your God
whatsoever?"
[No answer]
"Answer me, please."
"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."
"You're AFRAID... you haven't?"
"No, sir."
"Yet you still believe in him?"
"...yes..."
"That takes FAITH!" The professor smiles sagely at the underling.
"According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol,
science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?
Where is your God now?"
[The student doesn't answer]
"Sit down, please."
The first Christian sits...defeated.
Another Christian raises his hand. "Professor, may I address the
class?"
The professor turns and smiles. "Ah, yet another Christian in the
vanguard! Come, come, young man. Speak some proper wisdom to the
gathering."
The Christian looks around the room. "Some interesting points you
are making, sir. Now I've got a question for you. Is there such thing
as heat?"
"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."
"Is there such a thing as cold?"
"Yes, son, there's cold too."
"No, sir, there isn't."
The professor's grin freezes. The room suddenly becomes very
quiet. The second Christian continues.
"You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat,
mega-heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have
anything called 'cold'. We can hit 273 degrees below zero, which is no
heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing
as cold, otherwise we would be able to go colder than -273°C. You see,
sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We
cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat
is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of
it."
Silence. A pin drops somewhere in the classroom.
"Is there such a thing as darkness, professor?"
"That's a dumb question, son. What is night if it isn't darkness?
What are you getting at...?"
"So you say there is such a thing as darkness?"
"Yes..."
"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something, it is the
absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright
light, flashing light... but if you have no light constantly you have
nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use
to define the word. In reality, Darkness isn't. If it were, you would
be able to make darkness darker and give me a jar of it. Can you...
give me a jar of darker darkness, professor?"
Despite himself, the professor smiles at the young effrontery
before him. This will indeed be a good semester. "Would you mind
telling us what your point is, young man?"
"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is
flawed to start with and so your conclusion must be in error...."
The professor goes toxic. "Flawed...? How dare you...!"
"Sir, may I explain what I mean?"
The class is all ears.
"Explain... ohhhhh, explain..." The professor makes an admirable
effort to regain control. Suddenly he is affability himself. He waves
his hand to silence the class, for the student to continue.
"You are working on the premise of duality," the Christian
explains. "That for example there is life and then there's death; a
good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as
something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science cannot even
explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism but has never
seen, much less fully understood them. To view death as the opposite
of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a
substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, merely the
absence of it." The young man holds up a newspaper he takes from the
desk of a neighbor who has been reading it. "Here is one of the most
disgusting tabloids this country hosts, professor. Is there such a
thing as immorality?"
"Of course there is, now look..."
"Wrong again, sir. You see, immorality is merely the absence of
morality. Is there such thing as injustice? No. Injustice is the
absence of justice. Is there such a thing as evil?" The Christian
pauses. "Isn't evil the
absence of good?"
The professor's face has turned an alarming color. He is so angry
he is temporarily speechless.
The Christian continues, "If there is evil in the world,
professor, and we all agree there is, then God, if He exists, must be
accomplishing a work through the agency of evil.1 What is that work
God is accomplishing? The Bible tells us it is to see if each one of
us will, of our own free will, choose good over evil."2
The professor bridles. "As a philosophical scientist, I don't
view this matter as having anything to do with any choice; as a
realist, I absolutely do not recognize the concept of God or any other
theological factor as being part of the world equation because God is
not observable."
The Christian replies, "I would have thought that the absence of
God's moral code in this world is probably one of the most observable
phenomena going, Newspapers make billions of dollars reporting it
every week! Tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they
evolved from a monkey?"
"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young
man, yes, of course I do."
"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"
The professor makes a sucking sound with his teeth and gives his
student a silent, stony stare.
"Professor. Since no one has ever observed the process of
evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an
on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now
not a scientist, but a preacher?"
"I'll overlook your impudence in the light of our philosophical
discussion. Now, have you quite finished?" the professor hisses.
"So you don't accept God's moral code to do what is righteous?"
"I believe in what is - that's science!"
"Ahh! SCIENCE!" the student's face splits into a grin. "Sir, you
rightly state that science is the study of observed phenomena. Science
too is a premise which is flawed..."
"SCIENCE IS FLAWED..?" the professor splutters.
The class is in uproar. The Christian remains standing until the
commotion has subsided. "To continue the point you were making earlier
to the other student, may I give you an example of what I mean?"
The professor wisely keeps silent.
The Christian looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the
class who has ever seen the professor's mind?" The class breaks out
into laughter. The Christian points towards his elderly, crumbling
tutor. "Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's
mind... felt the professor's mind, touched or smelt the professor's
mind? No one appears to have done so." The Christian shakes his head
sadly. "It appears no one here has had any sensory perception of the
professor's mind whatsoever. Well, according to the rules of
empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science, I DECLARE that the
professor has no mind."
The class is in chaos.
The Christian sits.
http://www.evidence.info/apologetics/professor.html
.

User: "Mike Painter"
Title: Re: Did God Really Create Evil?	17 Oct 2003 12:46:57 AM

"emsguy" <emsguy@hogsfan.com> wrote in message
news:be3b68f3.0310161402.91f33fe@posting.google.com...
<snip>
What's the word I want?
Oh yeah, "yawn".
I do wish the newbie's would post the shorter version of this inane story.
.

User: "Christopher A. Lee"
Title: Re: Did God Really Create Evil?	17 Oct 2003 12:55:26 AM

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 05:46:57 GMT, "Mike Painter" <mdotpainter@att.net>
wrote:

"emsguy" <emsguy@hogsfan.com> wrote in message
news:be3b68f3.0310161402.91f33fe@posting.google.com...

<snip>

What's the word I want?
Oh yeah, "yawn".

I do wish the newbie's would post the shorter version of this inane story.

Newbie? Emsguy is Sears who has been deliberately spamming his inanity
here for many years now. He's posted this same story several times
already this year.
.

User: "Daniel Kolle"
Title: Re: Did God Really Create Evil?	18 Oct 2003 04:53:05 PM

(emsguy) thought hard and said:

This again?
--
-Daniel "Mr. Brevity" Kolle; 15 A.A. #2035
Koji Kondo, Yo-Yo Ma, and Gustav Mahler are my Gods.
Madly Insane EAC Scientist.
.

User: "Kenneth Doyle"
Title: Re: Did God Really Create Evil?	16 Oct 2003 07:23:13 PM

(emsguy) wrote in
news:be3b68f3.0310161402.91f33fe@posting.google.com:

Cold is a relative term. What's warm to one person is cold to
another. This absolute zero ploy is mere sophistry. If we hold
the student to that analogy, then evil and good are merely
relative. What's evil for one person is good for another.

You see, sir, cold
is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We
cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units
because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat,
sir, just the absence of it."

Or, relatively less of it. So evil, according to this analogy,
is just relitively less good. The things that God created are
not as good as God (are they son?), therefore they are evil and
therefore, God created evil. The professor's main point stands.
Moreover, his more subtle point, according to this analogy, is
that when you heal someone's broken limb by applying a splint
and imobilising the limb, your doing evil, because the good you
are doing is relitively less that the good which God does;
depending of course, on the "climate" that your accostomed to.

Silence. A pin drops somewhere in the classroom.
"Is there such a thing as darkness, professor?"
"That's a dumb question, son. What is night if it
isn't darkness?
What are you getting at...?"

This "professor" is not the brightest bulb in the box, is he?
As a matter of fact, he's looking rather straw like to me.

"So you say there is such a thing as darkness?"
"Yes..."
"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something,
it is the
absence of something. You can have low light, normal light,
bright light, flashing light... but if you have no light
constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't
it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In
reality, Darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to
make darkness darker and give me a jar of it. Can you...
give me a jar of darker darkness, professor?"

Similarly, darkness is relative. For example, it is almost too
dark to read where I am now, but I can see every object in the
room (and in my line of sight) quite clearly. Spooky huh?

Despite himself, the professor smiles at the young
effrontery
before him. This will indeed be a good semester. "Would you
mind telling us what your point is, young man?"
"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical
premise is
flawed to start with and so your conclusion must be in
error...."
The professor goes toxic. "Flawed...? How dare
you...!" "Sir, may I explain what I mean?"
The class is all ears.
"Explain... ohhhhh, explain..." The professor makes an
admirable
effort to regain control. Suddenly he is affability
himself. He waves his hand to silence the class, for the
student to continue.

"You are working on the premise of duality," the
Christian
explains. "That for example there is life and then there's
death; a good God and a bad God.

As is the bible. "God is only good, in him there is no darkness
at all".

You are viewing the
concept of God as something finite, something we can
measure.

That doesn't follow. You have to establish a link between
purity and finiteness and measureability. Good luck.

Sir, science cannot even explain a thought.

This seemingly irrelevent statement is not developed into any
sort of argument. Is the author just hoping that we will
niavely conclude that God must exist since science cannot
explain a thought? Probably not, but it's good rhetoric.

It
uses electricity and magnetism but has never seen, much
less fully understood them.

Are we going somewhere with this?

To view death as the opposite
of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot
exist as a substantive thing.

*****. It's a state not a thing. I view death as the
opposite of life, and yet I fully appreciate that death is not a
substantive thing.

Death is not the opposite of
life, merely the absence of it."

How can we have an abscence of an insubstantive thing. If there
is no substance, how can there be presence or absence? Life and
death are states, not things. The state of life of a thing is
never absent; something is either alive or it isn't, at all
times.

The young man holds up a
newspaper he takes from the desk of a neighbor who has been
reading it. "Here is one of the most disgusting tabloids
this country hosts, professor. Is there such a thing as
immorality?"
"Of course there is, now look..."
"Wrong again, sir. You see, immorality is merely the
absence of
morality.

Looks like more of the same, from here on in. Perhaps the
author is not convinced of his own argument, and hopes to lull
himself into faith with this mantra.
.

User: "Llanzlan Klazmon The 15th"
Title: Re: Did God Really Create Evil?	16 Oct 2003 07:00:53 PM

(emsguy) wrote in
news:be3b68f3.0310161402.91f33fe@posting.google.com:

"LET ME EXPLAIN THE problem science has with Jesus Christ."

Utter rubbish from the start. Science is a method of studying the natural
world. It has no interest in Jesus Christ unless some testable claim is
made about him.
<SNIP adolescent trash - anyone who wrote this has plainly not been
anywhere near any philosophy class>

The first Christian sits...defeated.
Another Christian raises his hand. "Professor, may I address the
class?"
The professor turns and smiles. "Ah, yet another Christian in the
vanguard! Come, come, young man. Speak some proper wisdom to the
gathering."
The Christian looks around the room. "Some interesting points you
are making, sir. Now I've got a question for you. Is there such thing
as heat?"
"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."
"Is there such a thing as cold?"
"Yes, son, there's cold too."
"No, sir, there isn't."

Yes there is. The above statement shows the writer is an ignoramous. Heat
is a reference to energy whereas cold is a reference to temperature. The
two are distinct concepts as any high school physics student knows. You
compare cold against hot (not heat). Hot and cold are relative terms used
regarding temperature. Heat generally refers to the thermal energy of a
body.

The professor's grin freezes. The room suddenly becomes very
quiet. The second Christian continues.
"You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat,
mega-heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have
anything called 'cold'. We can hit 273 degrees below zero, which is no
heat, but we can't go any further after that.

More stupidity, temperature is not heat. Learn some basic physics.
<Snip babble>

"Is there such a thing as darkness, professor?"
"That's a dumb question, son. What is night if it isn't darkness?
What are you getting at...?"
"So you say there is such a thing as darkness?"
"Yes..."
"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something,

Any professor of any subject, hell even a grade school child grasps that
dark is a relative concept. Your professor is the epitome of a strawman.
<SNIP more trash>

"Explain... ohhhhh, explain..." The professor makes an admirable
effort to regain control. Suddenly he is affability himself. He waves
his hand to silence the class, for the student to continue.
"You are working on the premise of duality," the Christian
explains. "That for example there is life and then there's death; a
good God and a bad God.

The Christian buybull describes its' god performing all manner of evil
activities both itself and inciting others to do them.

You are viewing the concept of God as
something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science cannot even
explain a thought.

Neither can the christian obviously.
<SNIP>

The Christian
pauses. "Isn't evil the
absence of good?"

No. Evil is judged as an act causing harm. The difficulty and difference
of opinion comes from the harm side of the equation. The Taliban say it
is good to murder those percieved as their enemies by flying planes into
buildings. The christian church at one time thought it was good thing to
execute Giordano Bruno by setting him on fire. The christian book also
says it is a good thing that their god murdered nearly everyone alive for
no justifiable reason.

The professor's face has turned an alarming color. He is so angry
he is temporarily speechless.

In your dreams.

The Christian continues, "If there is evil in the world,
professor, and we all agree there is, then God, if He exists, must be
accomplishing a work through the agency of evil.1 What is that work
God is accomplishing?

A benevolent and omnipotent god would not need to inflict harm to achieve
any end.

The Bible tells us it is to see if each one of
us will, of our own free will, choose good over evil.

The buybull also claims that the god already knows the answer. This
demonstates that the whole thing is a charade. If the god existed it
would be a total injustice for it to inflict infinite punishment on a
mortal being for simply not believing through lack of evidence. That
pretty much proves that the christian god as described by many christians
does not exist.
"2

The professor bridles. "As a philosophical scientist, I don't
view this matter as having anything to do with any choice; as a
realist,

Philosophical scientist? LOL - you have definitely not been near any real
philosophy class.

I absolutely do not recognize the concept of God or any other
theological factor as being part of the world equation because God is
not observable."
The Christian replies, "I would have thought that the absence of
God's moral code in this world is probably one of the most observable
phenomena going,

What is god's moral code? The murder and mayhem it performs in the
buybull?.
<SNIP trash>

Tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they
evolved from a monkey?"
"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young
man, yes, of course I do."

Why would a professor of philosophy be teaching evolution? It gets more
stupid by the second. BTW humans and modern apes evolved from a common
ancestor. That is a fact. The theory of evolution explains how it
happenned.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

As he is a philosophy professor, then maybe not. However evolution is
observed in the lab and the wild all the time.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html
Has the christian ever observed god creating anything? No. Do you you
have any evidence for god existing and/or doing anything at all? No.

The professor makes a sucking sound with his teeth and gives his
student a silent, stony stare.
"Professor. Since no one has ever observed the process of
evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an
on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir?

That is an outright lie, see above.
<More trash SNIPPED>
I can't believe how brain dead these fundies are.
Llanzlan.
.

User: "xyz"
Title: Re: Did God Really Create Evil?	16 Oct 2003 10:45:52 PM

"Llanzlan Klazmon The 15th" <Llanzlan@Llurdiaxorb.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9417845B62879LlanzlanLlurdiaxorbn@203.97.37.6...

emsguy@hogsfan.com (emsguy) wrote in
news:be3b68f3.0310161402.91f33fe@posting.google.com:

"LET ME EXPLAIN THE problem science has with Jesus Christ."

Utter rubbish from the start. Science is a method of studying the natural
world. It has no interest in Jesus Christ unless some testable claim is
made about him.

<SNIP adolescent trash - anyone who wrote this has plainly not been
anywhere near any philosophy class>

More stupidity, temperature is not heat. Learn some basic physics.

<Snip babble>

Any professor of any subject, hell even a grade school child grasps that
dark is a relative concept. Your professor is the epitome of a strawman.

<SNIP more trash>

The Christian buybull describes its' god performing all manner of evil
activities both itself and inciting others to do them.

You are viewing the concept of God as
something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science cannot even
explain a thought.

Neither can the christian obviously.

<SNIP>

The Christian
pauses. "Isn't evil the
absence of good?"

The professor's face has turned an alarming color. He is so angry
he is temporarily speechless.

In your dreams.

A benevolent and omnipotent god would not need to inflict harm to achieve
any end.

The Bible tells us it is to see if each one of
us will, of our own free will, choose good over evil.

The professor bridles. "As a philosophical scientist, I don't
view this matter as having anything to do with any choice; as a
realist,

Philosophical scientist? LOL - you have definitely not been near any real
philosophy class.

What is god's moral code? The murder and mayhem it performs in the
buybull?.

<SNIP trash>

Tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they
evolved from a monkey?"
"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young
man, yes, of course I do."

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

As he is a philosophy professor, then maybe not. However evolution is
observed in the lab and the wild all the time.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html

Has the christian ever observed god creating anything? No. Do you you
have any evidence for god existing and/or doing anything at all? No.

That is an outright lie, see above.

<More trash SNIPPED>

I can't believe how brain dead these fundies are.

Llanzlan.

You may have succeeded in bashing the guy, but you did not make an argument.
Certainly, heat is molecular vibration, which is a form of energy, and
temperature is a relative concept that may be used as a measure of heat
content if you take mass into account, but he is using the fact that a
universe without opposites is an impossibility, and he is saying that God
and religion relates to the concepts of good and evil like heat relates to
cold and hot. I haven't seen anybody prove or disprove that scientifically,
may be you have.
.

User: "Kenneth Doyle"
Title: Re: Did God Really Create Evil?	16 Oct 2003 11:08:13 PM

"xyz" <xyz@attglobal.net> wrote in
news:QBJjb.4359$Ec1.380206@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:

"Llanzlan Klazmon The 15th" <Llanzlan@Llurdiaxorb.net>
wrote in message
news:Xns9417845B62879LlanzlanLlurdiaxorbn@203.97.37.6...

emsguy@hogsfan.com (emsguy) wrote in
news:be3b68f3.0310161402.91f33fe@posting.google.com:

"LET ME EXPLAIN THE problem science has with Jesus
Christ."

Utter rubbish from the start. Science is a method of
studying the natural world. It has no interest in Jesus
Christ unless some testable claim is made about him.

<SNIP adolescent trash - anyone who wrote this has plainly
not been anywhere near any philosophy class>

The first Christian sits...defeated.
Another Christian raises his hand. "Professor, may
I address the class?" The professor turns and
smiles. "Ah, yet another Christian in the
vanguard! Come, come, young man. Speak some proper
wisdom to the gathering."
The Christian looks around the room. "Some
interesting points you
are making, sir. Now I've got a question for you. Is
there such thing as heat?"
"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."
"Is there such a thing as cold?"
"Yes, son, there's cold too."
"No, sir, there isn't."

Yes there is. The above statement shows the writer is an
ignoramous. Heat is a reference to energy whereas cold is
a reference to temperature. The two are distinct concepts
as any high school physics student knows. You compare cold
against hot (not heat). Hot and cold are relative terms
used regarding temperature. Heat generally refers to the
thermal energy of a body.

The professor's grin freezes. The room suddenly
becomes very
quiet. The second Christian continues.
"You can have lots of heat, even more heat,
super-heat, mega-heat, white heat, a little heat or
no heat, but we don't have
anything called 'cold'. We can hit 273 degrees below
zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further
after that.

More stupidity, temperature is not heat. Learn some basic
physics.

<Snip babble>

"Is there such a thing as darkness, professor?"
"That's a dumb question, son. What is night if it
isn't darkness?
What are you getting at...?"
"So you say there is such a thing as darkness?"
"Yes..."
"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not
something,

Any professor of any subject, hell even a grade school
child grasps that dark is a relative concept. Your
professor is the epitome of a strawman.

<SNIP more trash>

"Explain... ohhhhh, explain..." The professor makes
an admirable
effort to regain control. Suddenly he is affability
himself. He waves his hand to silence the class, for the
student to continue.
"You are working on the premise of duality," the
Christian
explains. "That for example there is life and then
there's death; a good God and a bad God.

The Christian buybull describes its' god performing all
manner of evil activities both itself and inciting others
to do them.

You are viewing the concept of God as
something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science
cannot even explain a thought.

Neither can the christian obviously.

<SNIP>

The Christian
pauses. "Isn't evil the absence of good?"

No. Evil is judged as an act causing harm. The difficulty
and difference of opinion comes from the harm side of the
equation. The Taliban say it is good to murder those
percieved as their enemies by flying planes into
buildings. The christian church at one time thought it was
good thing to execute Giordano Bruno by setting him on
fire. The christian book also says it is a good thing that
their god murdered nearly everyone alive for no
justifiable reason.

The professor's face has turned an alarming color.
He is so angry he is temporarily speechless.

In your dreams.

The Christian continues, "If there is evil in the
world, professor, and we all agree there is, then
God, if He exists, must be
accomplishing a work through the agency of evil.1 What
is that work God is accomplishing?

A benevolent and omnipotent god would not need to inflict
harm to achieve any end.

The Bible tells us it is to see if each one of us will,
of our own free will, choose good over evil.

The buybull also claims that the god already knows the
answer. This demonstates that the whole thing is a
charade. If the god existed it would be a total injustice
for it to inflict infinite punishment on a mortal being
for simply not believing through lack of evidence. That
pretty much proves that the christian god as described by
many christians does not exist.

"2

The professor bridles. "As a philosophical
scientist, I don't
view this matter as having anything to do with any
choice; as a realist,

Philosophical scientist? LOL - you have definitely not
been near any real philosophy class.

I absolutely do not recognize the concept of God or any
other theological factor as being part of the world
equation because God is not observable."
The Christian replies, "I would have thought that
the absence of
God's moral code in this world is probably one of the
most observable phenomena going,

What is god's moral code? The murder and mayhem it
performs in the buybull?.

<SNIP trash>

Tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they
evolved from a monkey?"
"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary
process, young man, yes, of course I do."

Why would a professor of philosophy be teaching evolution?
It gets more stupid by the second. BTW humans and modern
apes evolved from a common ancestor. That is a fact. The
theory of evolution explains how it happenned.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own
eyes, sir?"

As he is a philosophy professor, then maybe not. However
evolution is observed in the lab and the wild all the
time.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html

Has the christian ever observed god creating anything? No.
Do you you have any evidence for god existing and/or doing
anything at all? No.

The professor makes a sucking sound with his teeth
and gives his
student a silent, stony stare.
"Professor. Since no one has ever observed the
process of
evolution at work and cannot even prove that this
process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching
your opinion, sir?

That is an outright lie, see above.

<More trash SNIPPED>

I can't believe how brain dead these fundies are.

Llanzlan.

You may have succeeded in bashing the guy, but you did not
make an argument. Certainly, heat is molecular vibration,
which is a form of energy, and temperature is a relative
concept that may be used as a measure of heat content if
you take mass into account, but he is using the fact that a
universe without opposites is an impossibility, and he is
saying that God and religion relates to the concepts of
good and evil like heat relates to cold and hot. I haven't
seen anybody prove or disprove that scientifically, may be
you have.

It can't be scientifically proved or disproved. We can
logically prove that the analogy is inappropriate. Thermal
energy is subject to laws, God is not. QED.
.

User: "xyz"
Title: Re: Did God Really Create Evil?	18 Oct 2003 07:39:20 AM

"Kenneth Doyle" <nobody@notmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns941790C2849D5nobodynotmailcom@61.9.191.5...