| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"stoney" |
| Date: |
20 May 2006 10:48:18 AM |
| Object: |
Dinosaur Shocker |
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/issues/2006/may/dinosaur.htm
Dinosaur Shocker
By Helen Fields
Neatly dressed in blue Capri pants and a sleeveless top, long hair
flowing over her bare shoulders, Mary Schweitzer sits at a microscope in
a dim lab, her face lit only by a glowing computer screen showing a
network of thin, branching vessels. That’s right, blood vessels. From a
dinosaur. “Ho-ho-ho, I am excite-e-e-e-d,” she chuckles. “I am, like,
really excited.”
After 68 million years in the ground, a Tyrannosaurus rex found in
Montana was dug up, its leg bone was broken in pieces, and fragments
were dissolved in acid in Schweitzer’s laboratory at North Carolina
State University in Raleigh. “Cool beans,” she says, looking at the
image on the screen.
It was big news indeed last year when Schweitzer announced she had
discovered blood vessels and structures that looked like whole cells
inside that T. rex bone—the first observation of its kind. The finding
amazed colleagues, who had never imagined that even a trace of
still-soft dinosaur tissue could survive. After all, as any textbook
will tell you, when an animal dies, soft tissues such as blood vessels,
muscle and skin decay and disappear over time, while hard tissues like
bone may gradually acquire minerals from the environment and become
fossils. Schweitzer, one of the first scientists to use the tools of
modern cell biology to study dinosaurs, has upended the conventional
wisdom by showing that some rock-hard fossils tens of millions of years
old may have remnants of soft tissues hidden away in their interiors.
“The reason it hasn’t been discovered before is no right-thinking
paleontologist would do what Mary did with her specimens. We don’t go to
all this effort to dig this stuff out of the ground to then destroy it
in acid,” says dinosaur paleontologist Thomas Holtz Jr., of the
University of Maryland. “It’s great science.” The observations could
shed new light on how dinosaurs evolved and how their muscles and blood
vessels worked. And the new findings might help settle a long-running
debate about whether dinosaurs were warmblooded, coldblooded—or both.
Meanwhile, Schweitzer’s research has been hijacked by “young earth”
creationists, who insist that dinosaur soft tissue couldn’t possibly
survive millions of years. They claim her discoveries support their
belief, based on their interpretation of Genesis, that the earth is only
a few thousand years old. Of course, it’s not unusual for a
paleontologist to differ with creationists. But when creationists
misrepresent Schweitzer’s data, she takes it personally: she describes
herself as “a complete and total Christian.” On a shelf in her office is
a plaque bearing an Old Testament verse: “For I know the plans I have
for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you,
plans to give you hope and a future.”
It may be that Schweitzer’s unorthodox approach to paleontology can be
traced to her roundabout career path. Growing up in Helena, Montana, she
went through a phase when, like many kids, she was fascinated by
dinosaurs. In fact, at age 5 she announced she was going to be a
paleontologist. But first she got a college degree in communicative
disorders, married, had three children and briefly taught remedial
biology to high schoolers. In 1989, a dozen years after she graduated
from college, she sat in on a class at Montana State University taught
by paleontologist Jack Horner, of the Museum of the Rockies, now an
affiliate of the Smithsonian Institution. The lectures reignited her
passion for dinosaurs. Soon after, she talked her way into a volunteer
position in Horner’s lab and began to pursue a doctorate in
paleontology.
She initially thought she would study how the microscopic structure of
dinosaur bones differs depending on how much the animal weighs. But then
came the incident with the red spots.
In 1991, Schweitzer was trying to study thin slices of bones from a
65-million-year-old T. rex. She was having a hard time getting the
slices to stick to a glass slide, so she sought help from a molecular
biologist at the university. The biologist, Gayle Callis, happened to
take the slides to a veterinary conference, where she set up the ancient
samples for others to look at. One of the vets went up to Callis and
said, “Do you know you have red blood cells in that bone?” Sure enough,
under a microscope, it appeared that the bone was filled with red disks.
Later, Schweitzer recalls, “I looked at this and I looked at this and I
thought, this can’t be. Red blood cells don’t preserve.”
Schweitzer showed the slide to Horner. “When she first found the
red-blood-cell-looking structures, I said, Yep, that’s what they look
like,” her mentor recalls. He thought it was possible they were red
blood cells, but he gave her some advice: “Now see if you can find some
evidence to show that that’s not what they are.”
What she found instead was evidence of heme in the bones—additional
support for the idea that they were red blood cells. Heme is a part of
hemoglobin, the protein that carries oxygen in the blood and gives red
blood cells their color. “It got me real curious as to exceptional
preservation,” she says. If particles of that one dinosaur were able to
hang around for 65 million years, maybe the textbooks were wrong about
fossilization.
Schweitzer tends to be self-deprecating, claiming to be hopeless at
computers, lab work and talking to strangers. But colleagues admire her,
saying she’s determined and hard-working and has mastered a number of
complex laboratory techniques that are beyond the skills of most
paleontologists. And asking unusual questions took a lot of nerve. “If
you point her in a direction and say, don’t go that way, she’s the kind
of person who’ll say, Why?—and she goes and tests it herself,” says
Gregory Erickson, a paleobiologist at Florida State University.
Schweitzer takes risks, says Karen Chin, a University of Colorado
paleontologist. “It could be a big payoff or it could just be kind of a
ho-hum research project.”
In 2000, Bob Harmon, a field crew chief from the Museum of the Rockies,
was eating his lunch in a remote Montana canyon when he looked up and
saw a bone sticking out of a rock wall. That bone turned out to be part
of what may be the best preserved T. rex in the world. Over the next
three summers, workers chipped away at the dinosaur, gradually removing
it from the cliff face. They called it B. rex in Harmon’s honor and
nicknamed it Bob. In 2001, they encased a section of the dinosaur and
the surrounding dirt in plaster to protect it. The package weighed more
than 2,000 pounds, which turned out to be just above their helicopter’s
capacity, so they split it in half. One of B. rex’s leg bones was broken
into two big pieces and several fragments—just what Schweitzer needed
for her micro-scale explorations.
It turned out Bob had been misnamed. “It’s a girl and she’s pregnant,”
Schweitzer recalls telling her lab technician when she looked at the
fragments. On the hollow inside surface of the femur, Schweitzer had
found scraps of bone that gave a surprising amount of information about
the dinosaur that made them. Bones may seem as steady as stone, but
they’re actually constantly in flux. Pregnant women use calcium from
their bones to build the skeleton of a developing fetus. Before female
birds start to lay eggs, they form a calcium-rich structure called
medullary bone on the inside of their leg and other bones; they draw on
it during the breeding season to make eggshells. Schweitzer had studied
birds, so she knew about medullary bone, and that’s what she figured she
was seeing in that T. rex specimen.
Most paleontologists now agree that birds are the dinosaurs’ closest
living relatives. In fact, they say that birds are dinosaurs—colorful,
incredibly diverse, cute little feathered dinosaurs. The theropod of the
Jurassic forests lives on in the goldfinch visiting the backyard feeder,
the toucans of the tropics and the ostriches loping across the African
savanna.
To understand her dinosaur bone, Schweitzer turned to two of the most
primitive living birds: ostriches and emus. In the summer of 2004, she
asked several ostrich breeders for female bones. A farmer called, months
later. “Y’all still need that lady ostrich?” The dead bird had been in
the farmer’s backhoe bucket for several days in the North Carolina heat.
Schweitzer and two colleagues collected a leg from the fragrant carcass
and drove it back to Raleigh.
As far as anyone can tell, Schweitzer was right: Bob the dinosaur really
did have a store of medullary bone when she died. A paper published in
Science last June presents microscope pictures of medullary bone from
ostrich and emu side by side with dinosaur bone, showing near-identical
features.
In the course of testing a B. rex bone fragment further, Schweitzer
asked her lab technician, Jennifer Wittmeyer, to put it in weak acid,
which slowly dissolves bone, including fossilized bone—but not soft
tissues. One Friday night in January 2004, Wittmeyer was in the lab as
usual. She took out a fossil chip that had been in the acid for three
days and put it under the microscope to take a picture. “[The chip] was
curved so much, I couldn’t get it in focus,” Wittmeyer recalls. She used
forceps to flatten it. “My forceps kind of sunk into it, made a little
indentation and it curled back up. I was like, stop it!” Finally,
through her irritation, she realized what she had: a fragment of
dinosaur soft tissue left behind when the mineral bone around it had
dissolved. Suddenly Schweitzer and Wittmeyer were dealing with something
no one else had ever seen. For a couple of weeks, Wittmeyer said, it was
like Christmas every day.
In the lab, Wittmeyer now takes out a dish with six compartments, each
holding a little brown dab of tissue in clear liquid, and puts it under
the microscope lens. Inside each specimen is a fine network of
almost-clear branching vessels—the tissue of a female Tyrannosaurus rex
that strode through the forests 68 million years ago, preparing to lay
eggs. Close up, the blood vessels from that T. rex and her ostrich
cousins look remarkably alike. Inside the dinosaur vessels are things
Schweitzer diplomatically calls “round microstructures” in the journal
article, out of an abundance of scientific caution, but they are red and
round, and she and other scientists suspect that they are red blood
cells.
Of course, what everyone wants to know is whether DNA might be lurking
in that tissue. Wittmeyer, from much experience with the press since the
discovery, calls this “the awful question”—whether Schweitzer’s work is
paving the road to a real-life version of science fiction’s Jurassic
Park, where dinosaurs were regenerated from DNA preserved in amber. But
DNA, which carries the genetic script for an animal, is a very fragile
molecule. It’s also ridiculously hard to study because it is so easily
contaminated with modern biological material, such as microbes or skin
cells, while buried or after being dug up. Instead, Schweitzer has been
testing her dinosaur tissue samples for proteins, which are a bit
hardier and more readily distinguished from contaminants. Specifically,
she’s been looking for collagen, elastin and hemoglobin. Collagen makes
up much of the bone scaffolding, elastin is wrapped around blood vessels
and hemoglobin carries oxygen inside red blood cells.
Because the chemical makeup of proteins changes through evolution,
scientists can study protein sequences to learn more about how dinosaurs
evolved. And because proteins do all the work in the body, studying them
could someday help scientists understand dinosaur physiology—how their
muscles and blood vessels worked, for example.
Proteins are much too tiny to pick out with a microscope. To look for
them, Schweitzer uses antibodies, immune system molecules that recognize
and bind to specific sections of proteins. Schweitzer and Wittmeyer have
been using antibodies to chicken collagen, cow elastin and ostrich
hemoglobin to search for similar molecules in the dinosaur tissue. At an
October 2005 paleontology conference, Schweitzer presented preliminary
evidence that she has detected real dinosaur proteins in her specimens.
Further discoveries in the past year have shown that the discovery of
soft tissue in B. rex wasn’t just a fluke. Schweitzer and Wittmeyer have
now found probable blood vessels, bone-building cells and connective
tissue in another T. rex, in a theropod from Argentina and in a
300,000-year-old woolly mammoth fossil. Schweitzer’s work is “showing us
we really don’t understand decay,” Holtz says. “There’s a lot of really
basic stuff in nature that people just make assumptions about.”
Young-earth creationists also see Schweitzer’s work as revolutionary,
but in an entirely different way. They first seized upon Schweitzer’s
work after she wrote an article for the popular science magazine Earth
in 1997 about possible red blood cells in her dinosaur specimens.
Creation magazine claimed that Schweitzer’s research was “powerful
testimony against the whole idea of dinosaurs living millions of years
ago. It speaks volumes for the Bible’s account of a recent creation.”
This drives Schweitzer crazy. Geologists have established that the Hell
Creek Formation, where B. rex was found, is 68 million years old, and so
are the bones buried in it. She’s horrified that some Christians accuse
her of hiding the true meaning of her data. “They treat you really bad,”
she says. “They twist your words and they manipulate your data.” For
her, science and religion represent two different ways of looking at the
world; invoking the hand of God to explain natural phenomena breaks the
rules of science. After all, she says, what God asks is faith, not
evidence. “If you have all this evidence and proof positive that God
exists, you don’t need faith. I think he kind of designed it so that
we’d never be able to prove his existence. And I think that’s really
cool.”
By definition, there is a lot that scientists don’t know, because the
whole point of science is to explore the unknown. By being clear that
scientists haven’t explained everything, Schweitzer leaves room for
other explanations. “I think that we’re always wise to leave certain
doors open,” she says.
But schweitzer’s interest in the long-term preservation of molecules and
cells does have an otherworldly dimension: she’s collaborating with NASA
scientists on the search for evidence of possible past life on Mars,
Saturn’s moon Titan, and other heavenly bodies. (Scientists announced
this spring, for instance, that Saturn’s tiny moon Enceladus appears to
have liquid water, a probable precondition for life.)
Astrobiology is one of the wackier branches of biology, dealing in life
that might or might not exist and might or might not take any
recognizable form. “For almost everybody who works on NASA stuff, they
are just in hog heaven, working on astrobiology questions,” Schweitzer
says. Her NASA research involves using antibodies to probe for signs of
life in unexpected places. “For me, it’s the means to an end. I really
want to know about my dinosaurs.”
To that purpose, Schweitzer, with Wittmeyer, spends hours in front of
microscopes in dark rooms. To a fourth-generation Montanan, even the
relatively laid-back Raleigh area is a big city. She reminisces
wistfully about scouting for field sites on horseback in Montana.
“Paleontology by microscope is not that fun,” she says. “I’d much rather
be out tromping around.”
“My eyeballs are just absolutely fried,” Schweitzer says after hours of
gazing through the microscope’s eyepieces at glowing vessels and blobs.
You could call it the price she pays for not being typical.
/end
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Dinosaur Shocker |
21 May 2006 02:45:45 AM |
|
|
In article <gfeu62th57sfnrhmtp9sj26r3t7aq1n0au@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/issues/2006/may/dinosaur.htm
Dinosaur Shocker
By Helen Fields
Neatly dressed in blue Capri pants and a sleeveless top, long hair
flowing over her bare shoulders, Mary Schweitzer sits at a microscope in
a dim lab, her face lit only by a glowing computer screen showing a
network of thin, branching vessels. That’s right, blood vessels. From a
dinosaur. “Ho-ho-ho, I am excite-e-e-e-d,” she chuckles. “I am, like,
really excited.”
After 68 million years in the ground, a Tyrannosaurus rex found in
Montana was dug up, its leg bone was broken in pieces, and fragments
were dissolved in acid in Schweitzer’s laboratory at North Carolina
State University in Raleigh. “Cool beans,” she says, looking at the
image on the screen.
Cool beans indeed! Great piece of work. It's probably too much to hope
for, but it would be even greater is someone could isolate some dino
DNA. It could settle the dinosaur -> bird question once and for all.
Nice find, Stoney!
Meanwhile, Schweitzer’s research has been hijacked by “young earth”
creationists, who insist that dinosaur soft tissue couldn’t possibly
survive millions of years. They claim her discoveries support their
belief, based on their interpretation of Genesis, that the earth is only
a few thousand years old. Of course, it’s not unusual for a
paleontologist to differ with creationists. But when creationists
misrepresent Schweitzer’s data, she takes it personally: she describes
herself as “a complete and total Christian.” On a shelf in her office is
a plaque bearing an Old Testament verse: “For I know the plans I have
for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you,
plans to give you hope and a future.”
The creationistas are grasping at straws because that's all they can do.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Dinosaur Shocker |
22 May 2006 11:13:18 AM |
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|
On Sun, 21 May 2006 00:45:45 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <gfeu62th57sfnrhmtp9sj26r3t7aq1n0au@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/issues/2006/may/dinosaur.htm
Dinosaur Shocker
By Helen Fields
Neatly dressed in blue Capri pants and a sleeveless top, long hair
flowing over her bare shoulders, Mary Schweitzer sits at a microscope in
a dim lab, her face lit only by a glowing computer screen showing a
network of thin, branching vessels. That’s right, blood vessels. From a
dinosaur. “Ho-ho-ho, I am excite-e-e-e-d,” she chuckles. “I am, like,
really excited.”
After 68 million years in the ground, a Tyrannosaurus rex found in
Montana was dug up, its leg bone was broken in pieces, and fragments
were dissolved in acid in Schweitzer’s laboratory at North Carolina
State University in Raleigh. “Cool beans,” she says, looking at the
image on the screen.
Cool beans indeed! Great piece of work. It's probably too much to hope
for, but it would be even greater is someone could isolate some dino
DNA. It could settle the dinosaur -> bird question once and for all.
Nice find, Stoney!
Ta. I find stuff like this fascinating.
Meanwhile, Schweitzer’s research has been hijacked by “young earth”
creationists, who insist that dinosaur soft tissue couldn’t possibly
survive millions of years. They claim her discoveries support their
belief, based on their interpretation of Genesis, that the earth is only
a few thousand years old. Of course, it’s not unusual for a
paleontologist to differ with creationists. But when creationists
misrepresent Schweitzer’s data, she takes it personally: she describes
herself as “a complete and total Christian.” On a shelf in her office is
a plaque bearing an Old Testament verse: “For I know the plans I have
for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you,
plans to give you hope and a future.”
The creationistas are grasping at straws because that's all they can do.
Straws that aren't there.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Dinosaur Shocker |
22 May 2006 11:53:09 PM |
|
|
In article <kno3725u7ercealf8s5h0f4aeodgihcbjv@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sun, 21 May 2006 00:45:45 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <gfeu62th57sfnrhmtp9sj26r3t7aq1n0au@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/issues/2006/may/dinosaur.htm
Dinosaur Shocker
By Helen Fields
Neatly dressed in blue Capri pants and a sleeveless top, long hair
flowing over her bare shoulders, Mary Schweitzer sits at a microscope in
a dim lab, her face lit only by a glowing computer screen showing a
network of thin, branching vessels. That’s right, blood vessels. From a
dinosaur. “Ho-ho-ho, I am excite-e-e-e-d,” she chuckles. “I am, like,
really excited.”
After 68 million years in the ground, a Tyrannosaurus rex found in
Montana was dug up, its leg bone was broken in pieces, and fragments
were dissolved in acid in Schweitzer’s laboratory at North Carolina
State University in Raleigh. “Cool beans,” she says, looking at the
image on the screen.
Cool beans indeed! Great piece of work. It's probably too much to hope
for, but it would be even greater is someone could isolate some dino
DNA. It could settle the dinosaur -> bird question once and for all.
Nice find, Stoney!
Ta. I find stuff like this fascinating.
Meanwhile, Schweitzer’s research has been hijacked by “young earth”
creationists, who insist that dinosaur soft tissue couldn’t possibly
survive millions of years. They claim her discoveries support their
belief, based on their interpretation of Genesis, that the earth is only
a few thousand years old. Of course, it’s not unusual for a
paleontologist to differ with creationists. But when creationists
misrepresent Schweitzer’s data, she takes it personally: she describes
herself as “a complete and total Christian.” On a shelf in her office is
a plaque bearing an Old Testament verse: “For I know the plans I have
for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you,
plans to give you hope and a future.”
The creationistas are grasping at straws because that's all they can do.
Straws that aren't there.
Like everything else about their superstition, they pretend.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Dinosaur Shocker |
23 May 2006 08:29:34 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 22 May 2006 21:53:09 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <kno3725u7ercealf8s5h0f4aeodgihcbjv@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sun, 21 May 2006 00:45:45 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <gfeu62th57sfnrhmtp9sj26r3t7aq1n0au@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/issues/2006/may/dinosaur.htm
Dinosaur Shocker
By Helen Fields
Neatly dressed in blue Capri pants and a sleeveless top, long hair
flowing over her bare shoulders, Mary Schweitzer sits at a microscope in
a dim lab, her face lit only by a glowing computer screen showing a
network of thin, branching vessels. That’s right, blood vessels. From a
dinosaur. “Ho-ho-ho, I am excite-e-e-e-d,” she chuckles. “I am, like,
really excited.”
After 68 million years in the ground, a Tyrannosaurus rex found in
Montana was dug up, its leg bone was broken in pieces, and fragments
were dissolved in acid in Schweitzer’s laboratory at North Carolina
State University in Raleigh. “Cool beans,” she says, looking at the
image on the screen.
Cool beans indeed! Great piece of work. It's probably too much to hope
for, but it would be even greater is someone could isolate some dino
DNA. It could settle the dinosaur -> bird question once and for all.
Nice find, Stoney!
Ta. I find stuff like this fascinating.
Meanwhile, Schweitzer’s research has been hijacked by “young earth”
creationists, who insist that dinosaur soft tissue couldn’t possibly
survive millions of years. They claim her discoveries support their
belief, based on their interpretation of Genesis, that the earth is only
a few thousand years old. Of course, it’s not unusual for a
paleontologist to differ with creationists. But when creationists
misrepresent Schweitzer’s data, she takes it personally: she describes
herself as “a complete and total Christian.” On a shelf in her office is
a plaque bearing an Old Testament verse: “For I know the plans I have
for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you,
plans to give you hope and a future.”
The creationistas are grasping at straws because that's all they can do.
Straws that aren't there.
Like everything else about their superstition, they pretend.
Weaklings. <snort>
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Dinosaur Shocker |
24 May 2006 12:02:18 AM |
|
|
In article <dnd77212e9iffn9k5ks6v3dg0evrvsn0sm@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Mon, 22 May 2006 21:53:09 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <kno3725u7ercealf8s5h0f4aeodgihcbjv@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sun, 21 May 2006 00:45:45 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <gfeu62th57sfnrhmtp9sj26r3t7aq1n0au@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/issues/2006/may/dinosaur.htm
Dinosaur Shocker
By Helen Fields
Neatly dressed in blue Capri pants and a sleeveless top, long hair
flowing over her bare shoulders, Mary Schweitzer sits at a microscope in
a dim lab, her face lit only by a glowing computer screen showing a
network of thin, branching vessels. That’s right, blood vessels. From a
dinosaur. “Ho-ho-ho, I am excite-e-e-e-d,” she chuckles. “I am, like,
really excited.”
After 68 million years in the ground, a Tyrannosaurus rex found in
Montana was dug up, its leg bone was broken in pieces, and fragments
were dissolved in acid in Schweitzer’s laboratory at North Carolina
State University in Raleigh. “Cool beans,” she says, looking at the
image on the screen.
Cool beans indeed! Great piece of work. It's probably too much to hope
for, but it would be even greater is someone could isolate some dino
DNA. It could settle the dinosaur -> bird question once and for all.
Nice find, Stoney!
Ta. I find stuff like this fascinating.
Meanwhile, Schweitzer’s research has been hijacked by “young earth”
creationists, who insist that dinosaur soft tissue couldn’t possibly
survive millions of years. They claim her discoveries support their
belief, based on their interpretation of Genesis, that the earth is only
a few thousand years old. Of course, it’s not unusual for a
paleontologist to differ with creationists. But when creationists
misrepresent Schweitzer’s data, she takes it personally: she describes
herself as “a complete and total Christian.” On a shelf in her office is
a plaque bearing an Old Testament verse: “For I know the plans I have
for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you,
plans to give you hope and a future.”
The creationistas are grasping at straws because that's all they can do.
Straws that aren't there.
Like everything else about their superstition, they pretend.
Weaklings. <snort>
And stubborn. Even as they are sinking in the swamp of their
superstition, it you threw them the rope of reason they would refuse it
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
|
|
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Dinosaur Shocker |
24 May 2006 10:14:05 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 23 May 2006 22:02:18 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <dnd77212e9iffn9k5ks6v3dg0evrvsn0sm@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Mon, 22 May 2006 21:53:09 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <kno3725u7ercealf8s5h0f4aeodgihcbjv@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sun, 21 May 2006 00:45:45 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <gfeu62th57sfnrhmtp9sj26r3t7aq1n0au@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/issues/2006/may/dinosaur.htm
Dinosaur Shocker
By Helen Fields
Neatly dressed in blue Capri pants and a sleeveless top, long hair
flowing over her bare shoulders, Mary Schweitzer sits at a microscope in
a dim lab, her face lit only by a glowing computer screen showing a
network of thin, branching vessels. That’s right, blood vessels. From a
dinosaur. “Ho-ho-ho, I am excite-e-e-e-d,” she chuckles. “I am, like,
really excited.”
After 68 million years in the ground, a Tyrannosaurus rex found in
Montana was dug up, its leg bone was broken in pieces, and fragments
were dissolved in acid in Schweitzer’s laboratory at North Carolina
State University in Raleigh. “Cool beans,” she says, looking at the
image on the screen.
Cool beans indeed! Great piece of work. It's probably too much to hope
for, but it would be even greater is someone could isolate some dino
DNA. It could settle the dinosaur -> bird question once and for all.
Nice find, Stoney!
Ta. I find stuff like this fascinating.
Meanwhile, Schweitzer’s research has been hijacked by “young earth”
creationists, who insist that dinosaur soft tissue couldn’t possibly
survive millions of years. They claim her discoveries support their
belief, based on their interpretation of Genesis, that the earth is only
a few thousand years old. Of course, it’s not unusual for a
paleontologist to differ with creationists. But when creationists
misrepresent Schweitzer’s data, she takes it personally: she describes
herself as “a complete and total Christian.” On a shelf in her office is
a plaque bearing an Old Testament verse: “For I know the plans I have
for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you,
plans to give you hope and a future.”
The creationistas are grasping at straws because that's all they can do.
Straws that aren't there.
Like everything else about their superstition, they pretend.
Weaklings. <snort>
And stubborn. Even as they are sinking in the swamp of their
superstition, it you threw them the rope of reason they would refuse it
Don't forget stupid.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Dinosaur Shocker |
25 May 2006 12:43:32 AM |
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In article <01u872t9rn6du21pbigr3gnbc0dlnr8n54@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Tue, 23 May 2006 22:02:18 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <dnd77212e9iffn9k5ks6v3dg0evrvsn0sm@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Mon, 22 May 2006 21:53:09 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <kno3725u7ercealf8s5h0f4aeodgihcbjv@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sun, 21 May 2006 00:45:45 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <gfeu62th57sfnrhmtp9sj26r3t7aq1n0au@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/issues/2006/may/dinosaur.htm
Dinosaur Shocker
By Helen Fields
Neatly dressed in blue Capri pants and a sleeveless top, long hair
flowing over her bare shoulders, Mary Schweitzer sits at a
microscope in
a dim lab, her face lit only by a glowing computer screen showing a
network of thin, branching vessels. That’s right, blood vessels.
From a
dinosaur. “Ho-ho-ho, I am excite-e-e-e-d,” she chuckles. “I am,
like,
really excited.”
After 68 million years in the ground, a Tyrannosaurus rex found in
Montana was dug up, its leg bone was broken in pieces, and fragments
were dissolved in acid in Schweitzer’s laboratory at North Carolina
State University in Raleigh. “Cool beans,” she says, looking at the
image on the screen.
Cool beans indeed! Great piece of work. It's probably too much to hope
for, but it would be even greater is someone could isolate some dino
DNA. It could settle the dinosaur -> bird question once and for all.
Nice find, Stoney!
Ta. I find stuff like this fascinating.
Meanwhile, Schweitzer’s research has been hijacked by “young earth”
creationists, who insist that dinosaur soft tissue couldn’t possibly
survive millions of years. They claim her discoveries support their
belief, based on their interpretation of Genesis, that the earth is
only
a few thousand years old. Of course, it’s not unusual for a
paleontologist to differ with creationists. But when creationists
misrepresent Schweitzer’s data, she takes it personally: she
describes
herself as “a complete and total Christian.” On a shelf in her
office is
a plaque bearing an Old Testament verse: “For I know the plans I
have
for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm
you,
plans to give you hope and a future.”
The creationistas are grasping at straws because that's all they can
do.
Straws that aren't there.
Like everything else about their superstition, they pretend.
Weaklings. <snort>
And stubborn. Even as they are sinking in the swamp of their
superstition, it you threw them the rope of reason they would refuse it
Don't forget stupid.
And ignorant.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Dinosaur Shocker |
20 May 2006 07:25:38 PM |
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On Sat, 20 May 2006 08:48:18 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
- Refer: <gfeu62th57sfnrhmtp9sj26r3t7aq1n0au@4ax.com>
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/issues/2006/may/dinosaur.htm
Dinosaur Shocker
By Helen Fields
Neatly dressed in blue Capri pants and a sleeveless top, long hair
flowing over her bare shoulders, Mary Schweitzer sits at a microscope in
a dim lab, her face lit only by a glowing computer screen showing a
network of thin, branching vessels. That’s right, blood vessels. From a
dinosaur. “Ho-ho-ho, I am excite-e-e-e-d,” she chuckles. “I am, like,
really excited.”
After 68 million years in the ground, a Tyrannosaurus rex found in
Montana was dug up, its leg bone was broken in pieces, and fragments
were dissolved in acid in Schweitzer’s laboratory at North Carolina
State University in Raleigh. “Cool beans,” she says, looking at the
image on the screen.
:
Meanwhile, Schweitzer’s research has been hijacked by “young earth”
creationists, who insist that dinosaur soft tissue couldn’t possibly
survive millions of years. They claim her discoveries support their
Ignorant fuckheads.
belief, based on their interpretation of Genesis, that the earth is only
a few thousand years old. Of course, it’s not unusual for a
paleontologist to differ with creationists. But when creationists
misrepresent Schweitzer’s data, she takes it personally: she describes
herself as “a complete and total Christian.” On a shelf in her office is
a plaque bearing an Old Testament verse: “For I know the plans I have
for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you,
plans to give you hope and a future.”
:
Very cool!
She sounds like she has Asperger's.
--
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| User: "Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Dinosaur Shocker |
24 May 2006 10:48:00 AM |
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stoney wrote:
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/issues/2006/may/dinosaur.htm
Dinosaur Shocker
By Helen Fields
Neatly dressed in blue Capri pants and a sleeveless top, long hair
flowing over her bare shoulders, Mary Schweitzer sits at a microscope in
a dim lab, her face lit only by a glowing computer screen showing a
network of thin, branching vessels. That's right, blood vessels. From a
dinosaur. "Ho-ho-ho, I am excite-e-e-e-d," she chuckles. "I am, like,
really excited." [...]
Very interesting. Nice to finally read a followup on this topic.
"Schweitzer's work is "showing us we really don't understand
decay," Holtz says. "There's a lot of really basic stuff in
nature that people just make assumptions about."
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| User: "rich hammett" |
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| Title: Re: Dinosaur Shocker |
24 May 2006 12:58:11 PM |
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In talk.origins Dave <galt_57@hotmail.com> sanoi, hitaasti kuin hämähäkki:
stoney wrote:
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/issues/2006/may/dinosaur.htm
Dinosaur Shocker
By Helen Fields
Neatly dressed in blue Capri pants and a sleeveless top, long hair
flowing over her bare shoulders,
I'm feeling a bit warm. I need to go for a lie down...
rich
Mary Schweitzer sits at a microscope in
a dim lab, her face lit only by a glowing computer screen showing a
network of thin, branching vessels. That's right, blood vessels. From a
dinosaur. "Ho-ho-ho, I am excite-e-e-e-d," she chuckles. "I am, like,
really excited." [...]
Very interesting. Nice to finally read a followup on this topic.
"Schweitzer's work is "showing us we really don't understand
decay," Holtz says. "There's a lot of really basic stuff in
nature that people just make assumptions about."
--
-to reply, it's hot not warm
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
\ Rich Hammett http://home.hiwaay.net/~rhammett
/ The Bill Clinton of RSFC
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| User: "Kermit" |
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| Title: Re: Dinosaur Shocker |
24 May 2006 02:19:30 PM |
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rich hammett wrote:
In talk.origins Dave <galt_57@hotmail.com> sanoi, hitaasti kuin hämähäkki:
stoney wrote:
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/issues/2006/may/dinosaur.htm
Dinosaur Shocker
By Helen Fields
Neatly dressed in blue Capri pants and a sleeveless top, long hair
flowing over her bare shoulders,
I'm feeling a bit warm. I need to go for a lie down...
Here she is.
http://www.meas.ncsu.edu/faculty/schweitzer/schweitzer.htm
She's apparently a theist:
'Creation magazine claimed that Schweitzer's research "...speaks
volumes for the Bible's account of a recent creation."
This drives Schweitzer crazy. Geologists have established that the Hell
Creek Formation, where B. rex was found, is 68 million years old, and
so are the bones buried in it. She's horrified that some Christians
accuse her of hiding the true meaning of her data. "They treat you
really bad," she says. "They twist your words and they manipulate
your data." For her, science and religion represent two different
ways of looking at the world; invoking the hand of God to explain
natural phenomena breaks the rules of science. After all, she says,
what God asks is faith, not evidence. "If you have all this evidence
and proof positive that God exists, you don't need faith. I think he
kind of designed it so that we'd never be able to prove his
existence. And I think that's really cool."'
rich
Mary Schweitzer sits at a microscope in
a dim lab, her face lit only by a glowing computer screen showing a
network of thin, branching vessels. That's right, blood vessels. From a
dinosaur. "Ho-ho-ho, I am excite-e-e-e-d," she chuckles. "I am, like,
really excited." [...]
Very interesting. Nice to finally read a followup on this topic.
"Schweitzer's work is "showing us we really don't understand
decay," Holtz says. "There's a lot of really basic stuff in
nature that people just make assumptions about."
--
-to reply, it's hot not warm
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
\ Rich Hammett http://home.hiwaay.net/~rhammett
/ The Bill Clinton of RSFC
Kermit
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| User: "Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Dinosaur Shocker |
24 May 2006 05:45:48 PM |
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Kermit wrote:
rich hammett wrote:
In talk.origins Dave <galt_57@hotmail.com> sanoi, hitaasti kuin hämähäkki:
stoney wrote:
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/issues/2006/may/dinosaur.htm
Dinosaur Shocker
By Helen Fields
Neatly dressed in blue Capri pants and a sleeveless top, long hair
flowing over her bare shoulders,
I'm feeling a bit warm. I need to go for a lie down...
Here she is.
http://www.meas.ncsu.edu/faculty/schweitzer/schweitzer.htm
Well, she has established a new method of examination and has
identified the source of her bone fragments. Someone else can go and
get another sample from that bone and do a similar analysis.
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