| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Didi" |
| Date: |
20 Jun 2005 07:37:23 PM |
| Object: |
Disbelief - What is it all about? |
Good evening all,
One month earlier this year, after a strenous argument with my fiance,
in which I argued that while I did not necesarily agree with the
Judeo-Christian concept of a god, I believed that we all must have come
from somewhere.....and that somewhere was some kind of benevelent deity
in the sky, to which he repeatedly replied....bollocks to that - I
realised that I really had no real concrete evidence for ...well you
know, god.
And I started to read, and do a little research, and the more I read
the more I couldn't really justify my own belief in a god, and so I
simply just stopped. No real epiphany, no amazing moment of
realization, nothing...I just stopped. And so.....
Over the course of the past couple of months, I have been comfortably
sitting on the sidelines of alt.atheism, watching the goings on, and I
have very impressed with the logic many of you have employed to
demonstrate that the Judeo-Christian god - or any god for that matter
cannot possibly exist within the realms of their own folklore.
I'm going to come out to my family soon, and I can't very well just
tell them that I don't believe anymore .....I need solid reasons.
So, please tell me your reasons for not believing gods exist, so I can
at least sound like I know what I'm talking about.
Sincerely
Didi
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| User: "G-Ride" |
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| Title: Re: Disbelief - What is it all about? |
20 Jun 2005 09:05:09 PM |
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"Didi" <skullbabe@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119314243.945227.297690@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
<background snipped>
I'm going to come out to my family soon, and I can't very well just
tell them that I don't believe anymore .....I need solid reasons.
So, please tell me your reasons for not believing gods exist, so I can
at least sound like I know what I'm talking about.
For what it's worth, when I "came out" to my family about being an atheist,
it was pretty much a simple "I don't believe anymore". I don't recall
having any great argument at the time to back up my lack of belief, so I
wouldn't be too worried. Speak the truth and that should be good enough.
That aside, I think the simplest reason not to believe is that there is no
evidence (at least none that I've seen) that points to the existence of a
god. Basically, there is no reason to believe because there is no evidence
to believe.
Good luck with your family.
--
Aloha, G-Ride
"Gunga galunga. Gunga, gunga galunga."
- Dalai Llama
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| User: "In The World Before Clayton, Primal Chaos Reigned!" |
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| Title: Re: Disbelief - What is it all about? |
21 Jun 2005 01:30:44 AM |
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"Didi" <skullbabe@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119314243.945227.297690@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Good evening all,
So, please tell me your reasons for not believing gods exist, so I can
at least sound like I know what I'm talking about.
The problem is in your question itself! It's not why we dont believe in
God...although there's plenty when you finally drop the ball and chain of
theism.....but why should anyone actually believe in such and absurd and
childish concept?
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Disbelief - What is it all about? |
23 Jun 2005 09:27:50 AM |
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On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:30:44 +1000, "In The World Before Clayton,
Primal Chaos Reigned!" <cjfat@SPAMBLOCKphonymails.com> wrote:
"Didi" <skullbabe@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119314243.945227.297690@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Good evening all,
So, please tell me your reasons for not believing gods exist, so I can
at least sound like I know what I'm talking about.
The problem is in your question itself! It's not why we dont believe in
God...although there's plenty when you finally drop the ball and chain of
theism.....but why should anyone actually believe in such and absurd and
childish concept?
:D
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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| User: "Michelle Malkin" |
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| Title: Re: Disbelief - What is it all about? |
20 Jun 2005 09:31:51 PM |
|
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"Didi" <skullbabe@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119314243.945227.297690@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Good evening all,
One month earlier this year, after a strenous argument with my fiance,
in which I argued that while I did not necesarily agree with the
Judeo-Christian concept of a god, I believed that we all must have come
from somewhere.....and that somewhere was some kind of benevelent deity
in the sky, to which he repeatedly replied....bollocks to that - I
realised that I really had no real concrete evidence for ...well you
know, god.
And I started to read, and do a little research, and the more I read
the more I couldn't really justify my own belief in a god, and so I
simply just stopped. No real epiphany, no amazing moment of
realization, nothing...I just stopped. And so.....
Over the course of the past couple of months, I have been comfortably
sitting on the sidelines of alt.atheism, watching the goings on, and I
have very impressed with the logic many of you have employed to
demonstrate that the Judeo-Christian god - or any god for that matter
cannot possibly exist within the realms of their own folklore.
I'm going to come out to my family soon, and I can't very well just
tell them that I don't believe anymore .....I need solid reasons.
So, please tell me your reasons for not believing gods exist, so I can
at least sound like I know what I'm talking about.
Sincerely
Didi
Lack of evidence is the one I go by. If anyone starts pointing
out everything and asking how it could exist without a creator,
I just reply, the Universe is only evidence of itself, not a creator.
And, if the Universe has always existed, who needs a creator.
Some writers for you to check out: Michael Martin, George
H. Smith, Gordon Stein, Madalyn Murray O'Hair (never mind
her reputation; read what she wrote), Paul Kurtz, Gerald A.
Larue, Susan Jacoby, Robert G. Ingersoll, Chapman Cohen,
Bertrand Russell. That's a good start. Once you know what
it's all about, you can make up your own mind. Then, you'll be
able to discuss it with others.
--
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
Michelle Malkin (Mickey) aa list#1
alt.atheism atheist/agnostic list name collector
BAAWA Knight & EAC Bible thumper thumper
http://questioner.www2.50megs.com
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
.
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| User: "Didi" |
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| Title: Re: Disbelief - What is it all about? |
21 Jun 2005 02:18:24 PM |
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Michelle Malkin wrote:
"Didi" <skullbabe@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119314243.945227.297690@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Good evening all,
One month earlier this year, after a strenous argument with my fiance,
in which I argued that while I did not necesarily agree with the
Judeo-Christian concept of a god, I believed that we all must have come
from somewhere.....and that somewhere was some kind of benevelent deity
in the sky, to which he repeatedly replied....bollocks to that - I
realised that I really had no real concrete evidence for ...well you
know, god.
And I started to read, and do a little research, and the more I read
the more I couldn't really justify my own belief in a god, and so I
simply just stopped. No real epiphany, no amazing moment of
realization, nothing...I just stopped. And so.....
Over the course of the past couple of months, I have been comfortably
sitting on the sidelines of alt.atheism, watching the goings on, and I
have very impressed with the logic many of you have employed to
demonstrate that the Judeo-Christian god - or any god for that matter
cannot possibly exist within the realms of their own folklore.
I'm going to come out to my family soon, and I can't very well just
tell them that I don't believe anymore .....I need solid reasons.
So, please tell me your reasons for not believing gods exist, so I can
at least sound like I know what I'm talking about.
Sincerely
Didi
Lack of evidence is the one I go by. If anyone starts pointing
out everything and asking how it could exist without a creator,
I just reply, the Universe is only evidence of itself, not a creator.
And, if the Universe has always existed, who needs a creator.
Some writers for you to check out: Michael Martin, George
H. Smith, Gordon Stein, Madalyn Murray O'Hair (never mind
her reputation; read what she wrote), Paul Kurtz, Gerald A.
Larue, Susan Jacoby, Robert G. Ingersoll, Chapman Cohen,
Bertrand Russell. That's a good start. Once you know what
it's all about, you can make up your own mind. Then, you'll be
able to discuss it with others.
Thanks alot Michelle!!!
--
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
Michelle Malkin (Mickey) aa list#1
alt.atheism atheist/agnostic list name collector
BAAWA Knight & EAC Bible thumper thumper
http://questioner.www2.50megs.com
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Disbelief - What is it all about? |
21 Jun 2005 08:35:45 AM |
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"Didi" <skullbabe@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119314243.945227.297690@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Good evening all,
snip
So, please tell me your reasons for not believing gods exist, so I can
at least sound like I know what I'm talking about.
I don't believe gods exist due to the fact that there's no objective,
verifiable evidence that they do.
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Disbelief - What is it all about? |
21 Jun 2005 08:42:55 AM |
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On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 09:35:45 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Didi" <skullbabe@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119314243.945227.297690@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Good evening all,
snip
So, please tell me your reasons for not believing gods exist, so I can
at least sound like I know what I'm talking about.
I don't believe gods exist due to the fact that there's no objective,
verifiable evidence that they do.
Never having been taught to believe as a child, it puzzles me that
anybody expects me to start off from a position of their (possible)
existence.
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Disbelief - What is it all about? |
21 Jun 2005 09:14:11 AM |
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"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:896gb1dol3ju3hkq221hvj9nvle3vg7f1f@4ax.com...
On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 09:35:45 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Didi" <skullbabe@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119314243.945227.297690@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Good evening all,
snip
So, please tell me your reasons for not believing gods exist, so I can
at least sound like I know what I'm talking about.
I don't believe gods exist due to the fact that there's no objective,
verifiable evidence that they do.
Never having been taught to believe as a child, it puzzles me that
anybody expects me to start off from a position of their (possible)
existence.
That's exactly where I'm coming from as well. For someone who wasn't raised
as a theist, the idea of god(s) existing seems rather ridiculous.
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
.
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| User: "J Forbes" |
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| Title: Re: Disbelief - What is it all about? |
21 Jun 2005 11:44:03 AM |
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Robibnikoff wrote:
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:896gb1dol3ju3hkq221hvj9nvle3vg7f1f@4ax.com...
On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 09:35:45 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Didi" <skullbabe@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119314243.945227.297690@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Good evening all,
snip
So, please tell me your reasons for not believing gods exist, so I can
at least sound like I know what I'm talking about.
I don't believe gods exist due to the fact that there's no objective,
verifiable evidence that they do.
Never having been taught to believe as a child, it puzzles me that
anybody expects me to start off from a position of their (possible)
existence.
That's exactly where I'm coming from as well. For someone who wasn't raised
as a theist, the idea of god(s) existing seems rather ridiculous.
most folks aren't that lucky...and a mind virus like religion is
potent stuff.
--
Jim
Visit the Selectric Typewriter Museum!
http://www.selectric.org
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Disbelief - What is it all about? |
21 Jun 2005 12:10:02 PM |
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"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:ntXte.7442$NX4.6324@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Robibnikoff wrote:
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:896gb1dol3ju3hkq221hvj9nvle3vg7f1f@4ax.com...
On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 09:35:45 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Didi" <skullbabe@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119314243.945227.297690@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Good evening all,
snip
So, please tell me your reasons for not believing gods exist, so I can
at least sound like I know what I'm talking about.
I don't believe gods exist due to the fact that there's no objective,
verifiable evidence that they do.
Never having been taught to believe as a child, it puzzles me that
anybody expects me to start off from a position of their (possible)
existence.
That's exactly where I'm coming from as well. For someone who wasn't
raised
as a theist, the idea of god(s) existing seems rather ridiculous.
most folks aren't that lucky...and a mind virus like religion is
potent stuff.
I know; I see that in my sis-in-laws and my husband's parents. Sadly in the
case of my sis-in-laws, I also see it being passed onto their children. Ever
take a look at what a kindergartener brings home from Catholic school? It's
appalling. God this, god that, blah, blah, blah - Not to mention that he
gets graded on "Coming to an awareness of the Lord's presence". WTF?!? :P
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
.
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| User: "Enkidu the Atheist" |
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| Title: Re: Disbelief - What is it all about? |
21 Jun 2005 02:23:42 PM |
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"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in
news:3hr006Fidrs2U1@individual.net:
Not to mention that he gets graded on "Coming to an awareness
of the Lord's presence". WTF?!? :P
How can you tell the difference between "the Lord's presence" and mental
illness? Until I get a good answer, I'll assume it's mental illness. We
all *KNOW* that exists.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplin and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
"An atheist is a man who has no invisible means of support."
-- John Buchan
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Disbelief - What is it all about? |
21 Jun 2005 03:23:01 PM |
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"Enkidu the Atheist" <Enkidu.the.Atheist@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns967C7E176D0AA255229@130.133.1.4...
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in
news:3hr006Fidrs2U1@individual.net:
Not to mention that he gets graded on "Coming to an awareness
of the Lord's presence". WTF?!? :P
How can you tell the difference between "the Lord's presence" and mental
illness? Until I get a good answer, I'll assume it's mental illness. We
all *KNOW* that exists.
And my nephew got a high grade too - Oh dear :P
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
.
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| User: "Llanzlan Klazmon" |
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| Title: Re: Disbelief - What is it all about? |
23 Jun 2005 10:43:05 PM |
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"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in
news:3hrba1Fi97c3U1@individual.net:
"Enkidu the Atheist" <Enkidu.the.Atheist@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns967C7E176D0AA255229@130.133.1.4...
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in
news:3hr006Fidrs2U1@individual.net:
Not to mention that he gets graded on "Coming to an awareness
of the Lord's presence". WTF?!? :P
How can you tell the difference between "the Lord's presence" and
mental illness? Until I get a good answer, I'll assume it's mental
illness. We all *KNOW* that exists.
And my nephew got a high grade too - Oh dear :P
Hey. I was top of the class in religious studies at the school I went to
which was run by a religious order. Even then I realised it was all BS. I
guess the problem was that I understood it too well.
Klazmon.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Disbelief - What is it all about? |
24 Jun 2005 07:34:29 AM |
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"Llanzlan Klazmon" <Klazmon@llurdiaxorb.govt> wrote in message
news:Xns967F9FD818042Klazmonllurdiaxorbgo@203.97.37.6...
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in
news:3hrba1Fi97c3U1@individual.net:
"Enkidu the Atheist" <Enkidu.the.Atheist@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns967C7E176D0AA255229@130.133.1.4...
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in
news:3hr006Fidrs2U1@individual.net:
Not to mention that he gets graded on "Coming to an awareness
of the Lord's presence". WTF?!? :P
How can you tell the difference between "the Lord's presence" and
mental illness? Until I get a good answer, I'll assume it's mental
illness. We all *KNOW* that exists.
And my nephew got a high grade too - Oh dear :P
Hey. I was top of the class in religious studies at the school I went to
which was run by a religious order. Even then I realised it was all BS. I
guess the problem was that I understood it too well.
Yes, but you realized it was all BS. My nephew's only 6 and will believe
anything you tell him, so he's ripe for the picking at Catholic school.
He's not too swift.
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
.
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| User: "Niels van der Linden" |
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| Title: Re: Disbelief - What is it all about? |
21 Jun 2005 09:12:23 PM |
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This just in: school encourages children in creating invisible friends.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Disbelief - What is it all about? |
21 Jun 2005 09:34:21 PM |
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"Niels van der Linden" <n.f.l.vanderlinden@student.utwente.nl> wrote in
message news:d9ahhv$8lt$1@netlx020.civ.utwente.nl...
This just in: school encourages children in creating invisible friends.
Indeed - And there's nothing like hearing a 6-year-old preach
Nephew: Who maaay me? (he has a terrible speech impediment)
Me: What are you talking about? Your parents "made" you.
Nephew: Naw
Me: What do you mean, then?
Nephew: Gaaaawd maaaaay me.
Me: Oh really? Did god also make the dinosaurs?
Nephew: Whaaaaaaaa?
Oy :P
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
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| User: "Niels van der Linden" |
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| Title: Re: Disbelief - What is it all about? |
21 Jun 2005 01:32:44 PM |
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I know; I see that in my sis-in-laws and my husband's parents. Sadly in
the
case of my sis-in-laws, I also see it being passed onto their children.
Ever
take a look at what a kindergartener brings home from Catholic school?
It's
appalling. God this, god that, blah, blah, blah - Not to mention that he
gets graded on "Coming to an awareness of the Lord's presence". WTF?!? :P
I can't think of any funny comebacks to come close to the horror that is.
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Disbelief - What is it all about? |
21 Jun 2005 02:06:33 PM |
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"Niels van der Linden" <n.f.l.vanderlinden@student.utwente.nl> wrote in
message news:d99mir$8j$1@netlx020.civ.utwente.nl...
I know; I see that in my sis-in-laws and my husband's parents. Sadly in
the
case of my sis-in-laws, I also see it being passed onto their children.
Ever
take a look at what a kindergartener brings home from Catholic school?
It's
appalling. God this, god that, blah, blah, blah - Not to mention that
he
gets graded on "Coming to an awareness of the Lord's presence". WTF?!?
:P
I can't think of any funny comebacks to come close to the horror that is.
It is horrifying, isn't it? Do you know how hard it is to keep a straight
face when my SIL is showing off her son's report card. Wooof!
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
.
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| User: "Niels van der Linden" |
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| Title: Re: Disbelief - What is it all about? |
21 Jun 2005 05:39:31 PM |
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"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:3hr6qlFib2teU1@individual.net...
"Niels van der Linden" <n.f.l.vanderlinden@student.utwente.nl> wrote in
message news:d99mir$8j$1@netlx020.civ.utwente.nl...
I know; I see that in my sis-in-laws and my husband's parents. Sadly
in
the
case of my sis-in-laws, I also see it being passed onto their children.
Ever
take a look at what a kindergartener brings home from Catholic school?
It's
appalling. God this, god that, blah, blah, blah - Not to mention that
he
gets graded on "Coming to an awareness of the Lord's presence". WTF?!?
:P
I can't think of any funny comebacks to come close to the horror that is.
It is horrifying, isn't it? Do you know how hard it is to keep a straight
face when my SIL is showing off her son's report card. Wooof!
Why would you need to keep a straight face? This is bloody ridiculous.
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Disbelief - What is it all about? |
21 Jun 2005 08:20:20 PM |
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"Niels van der Linden" <n.f.l.vanderlinden@student.utwente.nl> wrote in
message news:d9a52m$5d2$1@netlx020.civ.utwente.nl...
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:3hr6qlFib2teU1@individual.net...
"Niels van der Linden" <n.f.l.vanderlinden@student.utwente.nl> wrote in
message news:d99mir$8j$1@netlx020.civ.utwente.nl...
I know; I see that in my sis-in-laws and my husband's parents. Sadly
in
the
case of my sis-in-laws, I also see it being passed onto their
children.
Ever
take a look at what a kindergartener brings home from Catholic school?
It's
appalling. God this, god that, blah, blah, blah - Not to mention that
he
gets graded on "Coming to an awareness of the Lord's presence".
WTF?!?
:P
I can't think of any funny comebacks to come close to the horror that
is.
It is horrifying, isn't it? Do you know how hard it is to keep a
straight
face when my SIL is showing off her son's report card. Wooof!
Why would you need to keep a straight face? This is bloody ridiculous.
While I agree it is bloody ridiculous, I also feel that I owe my SILs a
certain amount of respect. They don't bother me about being an atheist and
I don't bother them about buying that Catholic malarkey.
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
.
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| User: "Niels van der Linden" |
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| Title: Re: Disbelief - What is it all about? |
21 Jun 2005 09:10:50 PM |
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While I agree it is bloody ridiculous, I also feel that I owe my SILs a
certain amount of respect. They don't bother me about being an atheist
and I don't bother them about buying that Catholic malarkey.
I don't have respect for brainwashing a child.
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Disbelief - What is it all about? |
21 Jun 2005 09:28:46 PM |
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"Niels van der Linden" <n.f.l.vanderlinden@student.utwente.nl> wrote in
message news:d9ahf1$8lk$1@netlx020.civ.utwente.nl...
While I agree it is bloody ridiculous, I also feel that I owe my SILs a
certain amount of respect. They don't bother me about being an atheist
and I don't bother them about buying that Catholic malarkey.
I don't have respect for brainwashing a child.
I don't either. However, I know they disapprove of my raising my daughter
without religion, but they don't mention it either. They KNOW it's none of
their business. So, I'm just giving them the same respect they're giving
me - That doesn't mean they don't catch me rolling my eyes now and again ;)
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Disbelief - What is it all about? |
23 Jun 2005 09:29:01 AM |
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On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:06:33 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Niels van der Linden" <n.f.l.vanderlinden@student.utwente.nl> wrote in
message news:d99mir$8j$1@netlx020.civ.utwente.nl...
I know; I see that in my sis-in-laws and my husband's parents. Sadly in
the
case of my sis-in-laws, I also see it being passed onto their children.
Ever
take a look at what a kindergartener brings home from Catholic school?
It's
appalling. God this, god that, blah, blah, blah - Not to mention that
he
gets graded on "Coming to an awareness of the Lord's presence". WTF?!?
:P
I can't think of any funny comebacks to come close to the horror that is.
It is horrifying, isn't it? Do you know how hard it is to keep a straight
face when my SIL is showing off her son's report card. Wooof!
Why bother?
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Disbelief - What is it all about? |
23 Jun 2005 09:33:28 AM |
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"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message
news:1phlb1hcv4r851u9qrp36cu0tc0tehv9v4@4ax.com...
On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:06:33 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Niels van der Linden" <n.f.l.vanderlinden@student.utwente.nl> wrote in
message news:d99mir$8j$1@netlx020.civ.utwente.nl...
I know; I see that in my sis-in-laws and my husband's parents. Sadly
in
the
case of my sis-in-laws, I also see it being passed onto their
children.
Ever
take a look at what a kindergartener brings home from Catholic
school?
It's
appalling. God this, god that, blah, blah, blah - Not to mention
that
he
gets graded on "Coming to an awareness of the Lord's presence".
WTF?!?
:P
I can't think of any funny comebacks to come close to the horror that
is.
It is horrifying, isn't it? Do you know how hard it is to keep a
straight
face when my SIL is showing off her son's report card. Wooof!
Why bother?
Because I'm close friends with them and I'm stuck with them for life! ;)
It's a mutual respect thing. They don't tell me I'm going to burn in hell
and I don't tell them they're superstitious idiots. Bada boom, bada bing ;)
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Disbelief - What is it all about? |
24 Jun 2005 01:29:18 PM |
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On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:33:28 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message
news:1phlb1hcv4r851u9qrp36cu0tc0tehv9v4@4ax.com...
On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:06:33 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Niels van der Linden" <n.f.l.vanderlinden@student.utwente.nl> wrote in
message news:d99mir$8j$1@netlx020.civ.utwente.nl...
I know; I see that in my sis-in-laws and my husband's parents. Sadly
in
the
case of my sis-in-laws, I also see it being passed onto their
children.
Ever
take a look at what a kindergartener brings home from Catholic
school?
It's
appalling. God this, god that, blah, blah, blah - Not to mention
that
he
gets graded on "Coming to an awareness of the Lord's presence".
WTF?!?
:P
I can't think of any funny comebacks to come close to the horror that
is.
It is horrifying, isn't it? Do you know how hard it is to keep a
straight
face when my SIL is showing off her son's report card. Wooof!
Why bother?
Because I'm close friends with them and I'm stuck with them for life! ;)
It's a mutual respect thing. They don't tell me I'm going to burn in hell
and I don't tell them they're superstitious idiots. Bada boom, bada bing ;)
Ah, armed truce. ;)
With your sense of humour though it's hard to imagine you not
snickering.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Disbelief - What is it all about? |
24 Jun 2005 01:34:22 PM |
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"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message
news:86kob1t7l1496b3vv0hq8ov7gj5naigp4f@4ax.com...
On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:33:28 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message
news:1phlb1hcv4r851u9qrp36cu0tc0tehv9v4@4ax.com...
On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:06:33 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Niels van der Linden" <n.f.l.vanderlinden@student.utwente.nl> wrote
in
message news:d99mir$8j$1@netlx020.civ.utwente.nl...
I know; I see that in my sis-in-laws and my husband's parents.
Sadly
in
the
case of my sis-in-laws, I also see it being passed onto their
children.
Ever
take a look at what a kindergartener brings home from Catholic
school?
It's
appalling. God this, god that, blah, blah, blah - Not to mention
that
he
gets graded on "Coming to an awareness of the Lord's presence".
WTF?!?
:P
I can't think of any funny comebacks to come close to the horror
that
is.
It is horrifying, isn't it? Do you know how hard it is to keep a
straight
face when my SIL is showing off her son's report card. Wooof!
Why bother?
Because I'm close friends with them and I'm stuck with them for life! ;)
It's a mutual respect thing. They don't tell me I'm going to burn in
hell
and I don't tell them they're superstitious idiots. Bada boom, bada bing
;)
Ah, armed truce. ;)
Yep, that's exactly what it is ;)
With your sense of humour though it's hard to imagine you not
snickering.
Believe me, I've developed a LOT of self-control since my nephew started
Catholic school.
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Disbelief - What is it all about? |
30 Jun 2005 09:23:49 AM |
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On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:34:22 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message
news:86kob1t7l1496b3vv0hq8ov7gj5naigp4f@4ax.com...
On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:33:28 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message
news:1phlb1hcv4r851u9qrp36cu0tc0tehv9v4@4ax.com...
On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:06:33 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Niels van der Linden" <n.f.l.vanderlinden@student.utwente.nl> wrote
in
message news:d99mir$8j$1@netlx020.civ.utwente.nl...
I know; I see that in my sis-in-laws and my husband's parents.
Sadly
in
the
case of my sis-in-laws, I also see it being passed onto their
children.
Ever
take a look at what a kindergartener brings home from Catholic
school?
It's
appalling. God this, god that, blah, blah, blah - Not to mention
that
he
gets graded on "Coming to an awareness of the Lord's presence".
WTF?!?
:P
I can't think of any funny comebacks to come close to the horror
that
is.
It is horrifying, isn't it? Do you know how hard it is to keep a
straight
face when my SIL is showing off her son's report card. Wooof!
Why bother?
Because I'm close friends with them and I'm stuck with them for life! ;)
It's a mutual respect thing. They don't tell me I'm going to burn in
hell
and I don't tell them they're superstitious idiots. Bada boom, bada bing
;)
Ah, armed truce. ;)
Yep, that's exactly what it is ;)
With your sense of humour though it's hard to imagine you not
snickering.
Believe me, I've developed a LOT of self-control since my nephew started
Catholic school.
I believe you.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
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| User: "Dale" |
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| Title: Re: Disbelief - What is it all about? |
21 Jun 2005 12:34:10 AM |
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"Didi" <skullbabe@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119314243.945227.297690@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
[...]
I'm going to come out to my family soon, and I can't very well just
tell them that I don't believe anymore .....I need solid reasons.
So, please tell me your reasons for not believing gods exist, so I can
at least sound like I know what I'm talking about.
Why are you going to "come out" to them? Just spoiling for a fight? Or does
your family regularly ask you if you have received Jesus into your heart?
One thing I think helps is to understand the difference in theism and
religion. Most people mix those up in their thinking, but they're really
quite separate. Theism isn't a religion anymore than atheism is.
But most people mix god-belief in with hell-belief, and then mix hell-belief
in with afterlife-belief. My thing was I started out in a Southern Baptist
family, and then became a Baha'i. Well, Baha'is don't believe in Hell, so
after a while I began to wonder why you would need a God if you didn't have
a Hell, because the whole purpose of Hell and Heaven is to bring all
accounts to justice in the end, and THAT is why you need God. Eventually, I
figured out that you don't really NEED a God for anything.
If all we are is what we are, if all we have is what we have, then that's
the miracle. People get used to the mundane, and decide there has to be
something else. But if there were something else, then there would have to
be something else beyond that, and so on and so forth so that there really
never CAN be anything else, it ALL has to be here now.
So anyway, that's how I arrived at thinking I'm an atheist, not by
disbelieving, but by incrementally believing in nothing.
Still, if I were visting a family of indigenes in the Amazon forest, I would
respect their customs and do as they do, for the most part. If they prayed
over food, I would pray with them. If they asked how I believe, I would
explain it, but I wouldn't feel obliged to convince them, anymore than they
should feel obliged to convince me of their beliefs.
And likewise, I think of religious folk in the US in the same light.
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| User: "Niels van der Linden" |
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| Title: Re: Disbelief - What is it all about? |
21 Jun 2005 10:51:15 AM |
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Religion is causing endless suffering in the world. I feel more and more
obliged to standing up to it. If my close ones are engaged in it too, it
feels even worse.
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| User: "R. Pierce Butler" |
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| Title: Re: Disbelief - What is it all about? |
20 Jun 2005 10:28:13 PM |
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"Didi" <skullbabe@hotmail.com> wrote in news:1119314243.945227.297690
@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Good evening all,
One month earlier this year, after a strenous argument with my fiance,
in which I argued that while I did not necesarily agree with the
Judeo-Christian concept of a god, I believed that we all must have come
from somewhere.....and that somewhere was some kind of benevelent deity
in the sky, to which he repeatedly replied....bollocks to that - I
realised that I really had no real concrete evidence for ...well you
know, god.
And I started to read, and do a little research, and the more I read
the more I couldn't really justify my own belief in a god, and so I
simply just stopped. No real epiphany, no amazing moment of
realization, nothing...I just stopped. And so.....
Over the course of the past couple of months, I have been comfortably
sitting on the sidelines of alt.atheism, watching the goings on, and I
have very impressed with the logic many of you have employed to
demonstrate that the Judeo-Christian god - or any god for that matter
cannot possibly exist within the realms of their own folklore.
I'm going to come out to my family soon, and I can't very well just
tell them that I don't believe anymore .....I need solid reasons.
So, please tell me your reasons for not believing gods exist, so I can
at least sound like I know what I'm talking about.
Sincerely
Didi
Why bring it up at all? Does your family have to know everything going in
your life? I have not mentioned that I am an atheist to anyone in my
family except for my youngest son and he is sworn to secrecy. If someone
brings up some religous topic that you disagree with, approach it with
logic and common sense. Keep them guessing. It gives them something to
talk about and gives you the upper hand in the conversation as they cannot
say "What do you expect from an atheist", etc.
If you are determined to thwart supersition with facts be prepared for a
battle.
If you are still determined to come out of the closet, then some of my
favorite arguments against the existence of god hinge around the
ridiculousness of the xtian god. Let's see. God made me and if I do
something bad like steal, burn, and maybe gamble my whole life, then he is
gong to condemn me to an eternity of pain, sufferning, torture, burning and
fire and anguish. But he loves me? *****! No being, supreme or
otherwise could do that to anything that it loves unless he was a sick
twisted demeneted *****.
Noah and the Ark is another good one. He promises to not destroy the
planet in a flood ever again. Why? Because he felt remorse for what he
did. Some supreme being. He gets *****, kills everyine save for One
guy, his family and his floating zoo. *****! It never happened. In
addition consider this: If he isn't going to flood the world again, I
wonder what new and imaginitive way he is going come up with the next time
he gets ***** and decides to destroy the world...but he loves us?
*****! He hates our guts.
Look around. God likes to kill children. He kills then by the truckload,
actually by the tidal wave full. Look at the death count from the tsunami.
He hates kids more than people hate cockroaches. He is probably laughing
his ***** off at all the dead chldren saying something like "Well they
deserved it anyway." God loves dead children.
God loves death. 1 million people die each year from malaria. How do they
get malaria? From one of god's creatures, the mosquito. Actually the
mosquito is just a carrier of the malaria parasite, but let not confuse the
issue with facts. The point is that one of gods creatures that he made for
us is killing us by the millions. Men, women, children, it doesn't matter,
god kills 1 million+ a year. If he cared at all he wouldn't be killing
people or even permitting them to die. Yup, God loves death.
I am sure you can find many more examples.
Good luck
rj
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