Do atheists have weak "mortality salience?"

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"Elf M. Sternberg"
Date:	31 Aug 2007 05:32:20 PM
Object:	Do atheists have weak "mortality salience?"

Faaascinating article:
The experiments showed that the mere thought of one's mortality
can trigger a range of emotions--from disdain for other races,
religions, and nations, to a preference for charismatic over
pragmatic leaders, to a heightened attraction to traditional
mores.
http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20070827&s=judis082707
The article is particularly scary because it concludes that,
as long as reminders of our own mortality remain front and center of
the political debate, the side that is most capable of exploiting "
his image as a protective shield against death, armed with high-tech
weaponry, patriotic rhetoric, and the resolute invocation of doing
God's will to rid the world of evil," will continue to do best in
elections.
Elf
--
Elf M. Sternberg, Immanentizing the Eschaton since 1988
http://www.pendorwright.com/
"You know how some people treat their body like a temple?
I treat mine like issa amusement park!" - Kei
.

User: "ike milligan"
Title: Re: Do atheists have weak "mortality salience?"	31 Aug 2007 09:49:50 PM

"Elf M. Sternberg" <elf@speakeasy.net> wrote in message
news:87hcmftjwr.fsf@speakeasy.net...

Faaascinating article:

The experiments showed that the mere thought of one's mortality
can trigger a range of emotions--from disdain for other races,
religions, and nations, to a preference for charismatic over
pragmatic leaders, to a heightened attraction to traditional
mores.

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20070827&s=judis082707

The article is particularly scary because it concludes that,
as long as reminders of our own mortality remain front and center of
the political debate, the side that is most capable of exploiting "
his image as a protective shield against death, armed with high-tech
weaponry, patriotic rhetoric, and the resolute invocation of doing
God's will to rid the world of evil," will continue to do best in
elections.

Elf

The subject line mentions atheism, but the study seems to have nothing to do
with atheism. And it isn't mortality that is the cause of looking for
charismatic leaders, it is stress of anxiety connected with the idea of
being attacked physically by "the Enemy". Anxiety-stress is also a cause of
sexual aberrations, like excessive sexual apetite. A charismatic leader
brings out the sexual attraction in his/her followers.
Mortality, like the idea of dying, in itself is not stressful. It is the
attitudes coneccted with dying, like th idea of defeat and perhaps a fantasy
of atrocities committed upon one's race. The racial atrocities are then
projected by the charismatic leader upon other peoples, seeking to victimize
them to try and ward off atrocities upon one's own people. Those most
conveniently victimized may be totally different from those actually most
likely to commit the atrocities "defended" against.
.

User: "Meteorite Debris"
Title: Re: Do atheists have weak "mortality salience?"	31 Aug 2007 10:40:32 PM

Last time that great scribe ike milligan <accordiondoc@mindspring.com>
chipped away at his/her stone these gems of wisdom for posterity ...

"Elf M. Sternberg" <elf@speakeasy.net> wrote in message
news:87hcmftjwr.fsf@speakeasy.net...

Faaascinating article:

The experiments showed that the mere thought of one's mortality
can trigger a range of emotions--from disdain for other races,
religions, and nations, to a preference for charismatic over
pragmatic leaders, to a heightened attraction to traditional
mores.

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20070827&s=judis082707

The article is particularly scary because it concludes that,
as long as reminders of our own mortality remain front and center of
the political debate, the side that is most capable of exploiting "
his image as a protective shield against death, armed with high-tech
weaponry, patriotic rhetoric, and the resolute invocation of doing
God's will to rid the world of evil," will continue to do best in
elections.

Elf

IOW death. That is the worse that an enemy can deliver. When you're
fearful you react in a life preserving response in one of 3 possible
ways 1) fight, flight or freeze as frequently observed in animals. In
humans this manifests in 1) wars/xenophobia 2) refugees or 3)
citizen/voter apathy. The last one, freeze, often called cowardice, has
actual obvious survival advantages and is often dramatically manifested
in returned servicemen in PTSD who are numbed in RL after active duty
and can start or finish any projects and have so many difficulties. The
deer caught in the headlights.

Anxiety-stress is also a cause of
sexual aberrations, like excessive sexual apetite.

Why is that an aberration? That is a value judgement. It may be just
another way of being a human.

A charismatic leader
brings out the sexual attraction in his/her followers.
Mortality, like the idea of dying, in itself is not stressful. It is the
attitudes coneccted with dying, like th idea of defeat and perhaps a fantasy
of atrocities committed upon one's race. The racial atrocities are then
projected by the charismatic leader upon other peoples, seeking to victimize
them to try and ward off atrocities upon one's own people. Those most
conveniently victimized may be totally different from those actually most
likely to commit the atrocities "defended" against.

O
--
Remove both YOUR_SHOES before replying
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2009
Apatriotism Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/apatriotism
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make
you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
.

User: "ike milligan"
Title: Re: Do atheists have weak "mortality salience?"	03 Sep 2007 09:09:54 PM

"Meteorite Debris" <epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOESaapt.net.au> wrote in message
news:MPG.21438334260d8a30989846@news.ade.connect.com.au...

Last time that great scribe ike milligan <accordiondoc@mindspring.com>
chipped away at his/her stone these gems of wisdom for posterity ...

"Elf M. Sternberg" <elf@speakeasy.net> wrote in message
news:87hcmftjwr.fsf@speakeasy.net...

Faaascinating article:

The experiments showed that the mere thought of one's mortality
can trigger a range of emotions--from disdain for other races,
religions, and nations, to a preference for charismatic over
pragmatic leaders, to a heightened attraction to traditional
mores.

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20070827&s=judis082707

The article is particularly scary because it concludes that,
as long as reminders of our own mortality remain front and center of
the political debate, the side that is most capable of exploiting "
his image as a protective shield against death, armed with high-tech
weaponry, patriotic rhetoric, and the resolute invocation of doing
God's will to rid the world of evil," will continue to do best in
elections.

Elf

IOW death. That is the worse that an enemy can deliver. When you're

Actually defeat of a people is the worst an enemy can deliver. That's what
xenophobia is all about. the xenophobia is a political tool of the
narcissistic charismatic leader. Racism is a type of perverted self-love.

fearful you react in a life preserving response in one of 3 possible
ways 1) fight, flight or freeze as frequently observed in animals. In
humans this manifests in 1) wars/xenophobia 2) refugees or 3)
citizen/voter apathy. The last one, freeze, often called cowardice, has
actual obvious survival advantages and is often dramatically manifested
in returned servicemen in PTSD who are numbed in RL after active duty
and can start or finish any projects and have so many difficulties. The
deer caught in the headlights.

Anxiety-stress is also a cause of
sexual aberrations, like excessive sexual apetite.

Why is that an aberration? That is a value judgement. It may be just
another way of being a human.

A very interesting question. To decide what an aberration is, one would have
to have a model of normalcy to compare it to, and to get that, you would at
least have to choose a culture and a period of time. For the purpose here,
an aberration would be considered a collection of trends and practices,
before and after the social upheaval that caused the anxiety producing the
rise of charismatic leader. The charismatic leader's power feasts on his
sexual attractiveness, to both sexes. I would call your attention for
example to a statement by the dictator Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe, touting
his beauty as an explanation of his political dominance.

A charismatic leader
brings out the sexual attraction in his/her followers.
Mortality, like the idea of dying, in itself is not stressful. It is the
attitudes coneccted with dying, like th idea of defeat and perhaps a
fantasy
of atrocities committed upon one's race. The racial atrocities are then
projected by the charismatic leader upon other peoples, seeking to
victimize
them to try and ward off atrocities upon one's own people. Those most
conveniently victimized may be totally different from those actually most
likely to commit the atrocities "defended" against.

User: "Elf M. Sternberg"
Title: Re: Do atheists have weak "mortality salience?"	02 Sep 2007 10:47:59 AM

Meteorite Debris <epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOESaapt.net.au> writes:

IOW death. That is the worse that an enemy can deliver.

More specifically death. No other anxiety-causing scenario
caused the strong tribal-identity reaction documented: not facing
authorities, not facing pain. Just pondering one's own mortality.
Ike, ignoring facts you don't like is what theists do.
Elf
--
Elf M. Sternberg, Immanentizing the Eschaton since 1988
http://www.pendorwright.com/
"You know how some people treat their body like a temple?
I treat mine like issa amusement park!" - Kei
.

User: "ike milligan"
Title: Re: Do atheists have weak "mortality salience?"	03 Sep 2007 09:00:09 PM

"Elf M. Sternberg" <elf@speakeasy.net> wrote in message
news:87hcmdf4r4.fsf@speakeasy.net...

Meteorite Debris <epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOESaapt.net.au> writes:

IOW death. That is the worse that an enemy can deliver.

I did't write whatever you are replying to.
.

User: ""
Title: Re: Do atheists have weak "mortality salience?"	31 Aug 2007 05:59:23 PM

On Aug 31, 6:32 pm, Elf M. Sternberg <e...@speakeasy.net> wrote:

You know what has always facinated me about researchers? The
creativity they use to design their experiments. The thing with the
judges was *very* clever.

The article is particularly scary because it concludes that,
as long as reminders of our own mortality remain front and center of
the political debate, the side that is most capable of exploiting "
his image as a protective shield against death, armed with high-tech
weaponry, patriotic rhetoric, and the resolute invocation of doing
God's will to rid the world of evil," will continue to do best in
elections.

Welcome to Oceania. This prole's off to buy a lottey ticket...
-Panama Floyd, Atlanta.
aa32015/KoBAAWA!
.

User: "V"
Title: Re: Do atheists have weak "mortality salience?"	08 Sep 2007 11:16:18 PM

On Aug 31, 6:32 pm, Elf M. Sternberg <e...@speakeasy.net> wrote:

Faaascinating article:

The experiments showed that the mere thought of one's mortality
can trigger a range of emotions--from disdain for other races,
religions, and nations, to a preference for charismatic over
pragmatic leaders, to a heightened attraction to traditional
mores.

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=3D20070827&s=3Djudis082707

The article is particularly scary because it concludes that,
as long as reminders of our own mortality remain front and center of
the political debate, the side that is most capable of exploiting "
his image as a protective shield against death, armed with high-tech
weaponry, patriotic rhetoric, and the resolute invocation of doing
God's will to rid the world of evil," will continue to do best in
elections.

Elf

--
Elf M. Sternberg, Immanentizing the Eschaton since 1988http://www.pendorw=

right.com/

"You know how some people treat their body like a temple?
I treat mine like issa amusement park!" - Kei

Atheists have little or no connection with their inner peace and they
do not operate under a fear of God, so they are left to their own
devices.
As such, atheist have no authenticity in their peace practice, but are
'fear based' practitioners just as many theists are.
The secular humanists talks a good talk...but in the end they have no
incentive to do right other than the fear of pain from breaking man
made laws.
Lets look at a few of these atheists to get at the facts:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=3D509.0
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=3D529.0
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=3D630.0
Until atheists become peace based, they will fail at being 'humane
humans' just as theists fail, since most theists are not authentic in
their practice and run by fear as well.
Fear of the law, fear of God, fear of bad karma, fear of hell...those
fears do not make one 'authentic' in one's peace practice.
Take away fear of the law, fear of God, fear of bad karma, fear of
hell and you have a different person.
Does the thief that does not steal because a policeman is looking a
truly honest person?
A truly virtuous life remains the same irrespective of such fears and
is not based on them.
Really the 'religion of the atheists' AKA secular humanism does not
fail the atheist...it is the atheist that fails to make use of the
wisdom that their religion offers them.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=3D640.0
The atheists failure is rooted in motivational ignorance and lack of
desire.
Until one sees a need to adopt a certain moral direction why would one
adopt it?
And motivation and direction is solely based on inner peace and a
desire to achieve it and not destroy others inner peace.
But, the atheist is ignorant of what inner peace means, how to achieve
inner peace as well as what destroys others inner peace.
A good start to see what does motivate oneself is to ask yourself why
you wish to do something?
Is it for inner peace?
Or to massage your ego?
Or scared to go to hell?
Or because it feels good?
Or to improve ones karmic debt?
Or because others say so?
Or to hurt another?
Or to fit in...as Peter van Velzen had expressed?
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=3D646.0
What is your driving force?
Fear based reasons for doing something are not authentic and natural
actions.
The persons actions are based on negative consequences otherwise they
would not do them.
My actions are based on inner peace and if I stray - there goes my
peace - it is my choice.
Put your inner peace foremost and you will have your answer. When you
align real and authentic actions with those that promote inner peace
you have found enlightenment.
The facts are this: when people are devoid of religion...they
generally stink as humans.
Until atheism can replace theist based religion as a VIABLE and REAL
way to inner peace, with a reverence of humanity, it can never take
over the world and extinguish religion.
When you get rid of one thing, it makes room for another.
Sure atheist can succeed at pointing to the flaws of religious
thought, but they have nothing to replace the flaws with.
So theists choose the lesser of two evils while on earth, with the
hopes of hitting the jackpot in the hereafter.
When atheists become successes at 'the religion of humanity,' you may
become more successful at replacing theist based religion.
Until that time..."a mans mind may be likened to a garden which may be
intelligently cultivated or allowed to run wild; but whether
cultivated or neglected, it must and will bring forth. If no useful
seeds are put into it, then an abundance of useless 'weed seeds' will
fall therein and will continue to produce their kind." ~ James Allen
And religion does a good job at controlling the weeds.
In its history, organized atheism has never succeeded at replacing
religion with real humanity and compassion.
The atheists talk a good story, but atheists fail miserably when it
comes to practical application of the 'peace talk.'
And really the vast majority of atheists don't even have 'the talk' to
spout, since they have no semblance of inner peace themselves in order
to form a basis of 'lip service' to pontificate.
Another reason atheists will never win, is in general it takes hatred
to fuel atheism if one is a dogmatic, militant atheist.
Hatred blinds one to peace.
See:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.philosophy/browse_thread/thread/f4006812=
a06f9ddf
When you lose the hatred and militant foundation, then you do not wish
to destroy others or their religion....you are at peace to let them be
religious.
Sure you do not let others destroy you with religion, you tell them
the facts that they run by faith, so do not get too high and mighty
and start forcing you into the religion against your will.
But you only fight in a measured way of self defense, instead of the
offensive atheists that sets out to destroy 'all faith based beliefs'
just for the sheer joy of hurting another.
Sure tearing others down appeals to one's ego and pride, but so did
torturing insects when we were kids. When we grow up we need a
different way to find self worth.
As you instill seeds of peace within others you plant the same seeds
and water these seeds within you as well.
As you give so you receive.
Is that from the bible or karma?
No, it is just universal law.
Do we like to be beaten down?
Whenever we take it upon ourselves to beat down others, we are headed
in a direction of destroying peace. We destroy our own peace as well
as others peace.
It takes no energy from me to pass something by and leave it alone in
peace. But it takes my energy as well as my peace to pick something up
to destroy it.
When I posted this paragraph earlier, an atheist piped to accuse me of
hypocrisy, telling me that I destroy a potato when I pick it up to eat
it, so I am a liar.
Natural law dictates I must eat, but there is no law that says I must
spew venom from my mouth to destroy others.
If atheists can get over fishing for red herrings and get onto bigger
fish to fry they will see a world of difference in their peace
practice.
The destruction of inner peace by destroying potatoes comes about when
I destroy my neighbors crop field of potatoes by poisoning them to
bankrupt him in order to take over his farmland...it does not come
about by eating a potato.
The God of Nature gives me potatoes to eat, the God of Inner Peace
tells me to not eat potatoes in excess or to destroy others if I wish
to be at peace. I cannot see either God, I know not how these God's
work, I just know they are and I can abide by their guidance or be
defiant to these Gods and end up destroying my life and the lives of
others.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=3D342.0
Yes, there are theists that stink. See: http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/bu=
rning.html
I will be the first to admit that religion has done lots of harm but I
will also say religion done lots of right.
And just as the question of God cannot be answered with any certainty,
so goes the question of whether the world would have been better off
without religion or not.
It is a question that cannot be answered like it was in the movie
"It's a Wonderful life.'
But lets look at the facts and see that the vast, vast majority of
people are theists or believe in hereafter, so the pot is enormous
that we draw from when we pull out examples of evildoing theists that
the atheists like to parade around.
The USA was founded with God in the details. I suggest atheists that
hate a religious based country like the USA move to China or Russia.
Then you can live your dream right now, in your God free country.
In China, it was a common practice to execute political prisoners with
one bullet to the head...then they sent the bill for the bullet to the
family of the executed prisoner. That is where separation of state and
religion can lead a country. Once religion is out of politics, then
the only thing left in control is ego.
They say Hitler was a Catholic?
I don't know if he was Catholic or not.
I do know that Hitler did not practice even the most basic tenants of
Christianity.
It takes more than lip service to be a 'practicing' Catholic,
Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu or Hebrew follower.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=3D380.0
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/browse_frm/thread/125b41aa8fd2b8=
7b/cf400bdf88ba1701?lnk=3Dgst&q=3Dconundrum&rnum=3D7&hl=3Den#cf400bdf88ba17=
01
Now, some 'spiritually based atheist's can far surpasses many theists
in kindness and virtue many times...so it just depends on what 'type
of atheist' you are talking about?
But these sort of atheists are very rare to encounter, as spiritual
values and atheism do not generally mix.
"People that practice religion are worried about going to hell -
people that practice spirituality have already been to hell and don't
want to go back."
A lot of atheists I run into make their intellect their God. They do
not know that academic smarts are not the same as peace smarts. Until
they can transcend their ego they will never find the answer (peace)
they seek.
It is the same for those that think money is all that is standing
between them and happiness.
So it goes for the ego and intellect based person that is devoid of
spiritual values.
And if the atheists is honest they will see they do not run their
lives solely by logic and are no better than the theist that runs
their lives by faith.
No, logic only goes so far in life. For what is logical is not always
practical when it comes to humans ... is it?
Always remember...one thing only goes so far with giving a person a
good life. Seek balance.
Spiritual growth as well as humans are not perfect - but we can all do
better at being humans if we try to be more humane.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=3D4.0
There are many flavors of atheists...natural atheists, personal
atheists, explicit atheists, implicit atheists weak atheists, strong
atheists, discovery atheists, reactionary atheists, indoctrinated
atheists and of course the bad ***** atheists with attitude aka BAAWA
varieties.
But the defining characteristic that leads an atheist to peace is
whether they are a 'spiritual based atheist' or 'defiance based
atheist.''
The business of humanism is 'all our business' if we with to live life
at peace. Egocentricity is not good for spiritual work and we need to
be open to others ideas and embrace them as nourishment for your
growth and sustenance for life - as no one person is god.
As a freethinking agnostic I AM FREE to look for truth wherever the
road takes me. I discriminate against no one. As such, I study with
the Christians, the Buddhists, the Jews, the Muslims, the Taoists and
even find truth as I study with the atheists.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=3D470.0
When you practice peace promotion with others you will reap inner
peace promotion. When you practice destroying others peace, you will
reap self destruction of inner peace.
I suggest any atheists wishing to find inner peace within their life
adopt the creed of the atheists (their version of prepackaged morals)
and start actually practicing the wisdom that their religion of
secular humanism offers them.
The 'informal creed' of atheism.
An Atheist loves his fellow man instead of god. An Atheist believes
that heaven is something for which we should work now - here on earth
for all men together to enjoy.
An Atheist believes that he can get no help through prayer but that he
must find in himself the inner conviction, and strength to meet life,
to grapple with it, to subdue it and enjoy it.
An Atheist believes that only in a knowledge of himself and a
knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will
help to a life of fulfillment. He seeks to know himself and his fellow
man rather than to know a god. An Atheist believes that a hospital
should be built instead of a church.
An Atheist believes that a deed must be done instead of a prayer
said.
An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death.
He wants disease conquered, poverty vanquished, war eliminated. He
wants man to understand and love man.
He wants an ethical way of life. He believes that we cannot rely on a
god or channel action into prayer nor hope for an end of troubles in a
hereafter.
He believes that we are our brother's keepers; and are keepers of our
own lives; that we are responsible persons and the job is here and the
time is now."
http://www.atheists.org/Atheism/
"The Affirmations of Humanism: A Statement of Principles"
=B7 We are committed to the application of reason and science to the
understanding of the universe and to the solving of human problems.
=B7 We deplore efforts to denigrate human intelligence, to seek to
explain the world in supernatural terms, and to look outside nature
for salvation.
=B7 We believe that scientific discovery and technology can contribute
to the betterment of human life.
=B7 We believe in an open and pluralistic society and that democracy is
the best guarantee of protecting human rights from authoritarian
elites and repressive majorities.
=B7 We are committed to the principle of the separation of church and
state.
=B7 We cultivate the arts of negotiation and compromise as a means of
resolving differences and achieving mutual understanding.
=B7 We are concerned with securing justice and fairness in society and
with eliminating discrimination and intolerance.
=B7 We believe in supporting the disadvantaged and the handicapped so
that they will be able to help themselves.
=B7 We attempt to transcend divisive parochial loyalties based on race,
religion, gender, nationality, creed, class, sexual orientation, or
ethnicity, and strive to work together for the common good of
humanity.
=B7 We want to protect and enhance the earth, to preserve it for future
generations, and to avoid inflicting needless suffering on other
species.
=B7 We believe in enjoying life here and now and in developing our
creative talents to their fullest.
=B7 We believe in the cultivation of moral excellence.
=B7 We respect the right to privacy. Mature adults should be allowed to
fulfill their aspirations, to express their sexual preferences, to
exercise reproductive freedom, to have access to comprehensive and
informed health-care, and to die with dignity.
=B7 We believe in the common moral decencies: altruism, integrity,
honesty, truthfulness, responsibility. Humanist ethics is amenable to
critical, rational guidance. There are normative standards that we
discover together. Moral principles are tested by their consequences.
=B7 We are deeply concerned with the moral education of our children. We
want to nourish reason and compassion.
=B7 We are engaged by the arts no less than by the sciences.
=B7 We are citizens of the universe and are excited by discoveries still
to be made in the cosmos.
=B7 We are skeptical of untested claims to knowledge, and we are open to
novel ideas and seek new departures in our thinking.
=B7 We affirm humanism as a realistic alternative to theologies of
despair and ideologies of violence and as a source of rich personal
significance and genuine satisfaction in the service to others.
=B7 We believe in optimism rather than pessimism, hope rather than
despair, learning in the place of dogma, truth instead of ignorance,
joy rather than guilt or sin, tolerance in the place of fear, love
instead of hatred, compassion over selfishness, beauty instead of
ugliness, and reason rather than blind faith or irrationality.
=B7 We believe in the fullest realization of the best and noblest that
we are capable of as human beings.
Council for Secular Humanism
Take care,
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
AA#2
.

User: "Kate "
Title: Re: Do atheists have weak "mortality salience?"	31 Aug 2007 08:10:02 PM

On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:32:20 -0700, Elf M. Sternberg
<elf@speakeasy.net> wrote:

Faaascinating article:

The experiments showed that the mere thought of one's mortality
can trigger a range of emotions--from disdain for other races,
religions, and nations, to a preference for charismatic over
pragmatic leaders, to a heightened attraction to traditional
mores.

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20070827&s=judis082707

The article is particularly scary because it concludes that,
as long as reminders of our own mortality remain front and center of
the political debate, the side that is most capable of exploiting "
his image as a protective shield against death, armed with high-tech
weaponry, patriotic rhetoric, and the resolute invocation of doing
God's will to rid the world of evil," will continue to do best in
elections.

Elf

Interesting article. It explains why Fred can't leave alone the
subject that the USA must be the best at health care.
.

User: "Michael Gray"
Title: Re: Do atheists have weak "mortality salience?"	31 Aug 2007 07:26:07 PM

On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:32:20 -0700, Elf M. Sternberg
<elf@speakeasy.net> wrote:

Faaascinating article:

The experiments showed that the mere thought of one's mortality
can trigger a range of emotions--from disdain for other races,
religions, and nations, to a preference for charismatic over
pragmatic leaders, to a heightened attraction to traditional
mores.

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20070827&s=judis082707

The article is particularly scary because it concludes that,
as long as reminders of our own mortality remain front and center of
the political debate, the side that is most capable of exploiting "
his image as a protective shield against death, armed with high-tech
weaponry, patriotic rhetoric, and the resolute invocation of doing
God's will to rid the world of evil," will continue to do best in
elections.

Elf

On the contrary, atheists generally have a very heightened sense of
their own mortality.
We know that we have only one go at life, and make full use of it!
.

User: "Christopher A.Lee"
Title: Re: Do atheists have weak "mortality salience?"	31 Aug 2007 07:28:07 PM

On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 09:56:07 +0930, Michael Gray
<mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:

On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:32:20 -0700, Elf M. Sternberg
<elf@speakeasy.net> wrote:

Faaascinating article:

The experiments showed that the mere thought of one's mortality
can trigger a range of emotions--from disdain for other races,
religions, and nations, to a preference for charismatic over
pragmatic leaders, to a heightened attraction to traditional
mores.

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20070827&s=judis082707

The article is particularly scary because it concludes that,
as long as reminders of our own mortality remain front and center of
the political debate, the side that is most capable of exploiting "
his image as a protective shield against death, armed with high-tech
weaponry, patriotic rhetoric, and the resolute invocation of doing
God's will to rid the world of evil," will continue to do best in
elections.

Elf

On the contrary, atheists generally have a very heightened sense of
their own mortality.
We know that we have only one go at life, and make full use of it!

I've noticed that the terminally ill are more concerned for their
loved ones - whether they are theist or atheist, than for themselves
because they have come to terms with it.
.

User: ""
Title: Re: Do atheists have weak "mortality salience?"	31 Aug 2007 08:13:10 PM

On Aug 31, 8:28 pm, Christopher A.Lee <ca...@optonline.net> wrote:

On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 09:56:07 +0930, Michael Gray

<mikeg...@newsguy.com> wrote:

On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:32:20 -0700, Elf M. Sternberg
<e...@speakeasy.net> wrote:

Faaascinating article:

The experiments showed that the mere thought of one's mortality
can trigger a range of emotions--from disdain for other races,
religions, and nations, to a preference for charismatic over
pragmatic leaders, to a heightened attraction to traditional
mores.

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20070827&s=judis082707

Elf

On the contrary, atheists generally have a very heightened sense of
their own mortality.
We know that we have only one go at life, and make full use of it!

I've noticed that the terminally ill are more concerned for their
loved ones - whether they are theist or atheist, than for themselves
because they have come to terms with it.

One thing I found oddly soothing about my maternal grandmother's death
was that she acted as if she were actually *ready* to go. She was
tired of being sick, and she just seemed so tremendously bored with
the world (she was in her 90s). She certainly seemed to be out of
patience with it. She was much more worried about all of us than she
was about herself.
-Panama Floyd, Atlanta
aa#2015/KoBAAWA!
.

User: "Liz"
Title: Re: Do atheists have weak "mortality salience?"	01 Sep 2007 09:45:49 AM

On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:32:20 -0700, Elf M. Sternberg
<elf@speakeasy.net> wrote:

Faaascinating article:

The experiments showed that the mere thought of one's mortality
can trigger a range of emotions--from disdain for other races,
religions, and nations, to a preference for charismatic over
pragmatic leaders, to a heightened attraction to traditional
mores.

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20070827&s=judis082707

The article is particularly scary because it concludes that,
as long as reminders of our own mortality remain front and center of
the political debate, the side that is most capable of exploiting "
his image as a protective shield against death, armed with high-tech
weaponry, patriotic rhetoric, and the resolute invocation of doing
God's will to rid the world of evil," will continue to do best in
elections.

Immediately after 9/11 I noticed a heightened expression of wanting
security at any cost. Quite a few people felt willing to give up
almost any right or freedom in exchange for safety, or at the least,
feeling safe. The overt threat made them more comfortable expressing
such thoughts although they have always operated in our political
process even when they aren't so openly acknowledged.
In the risk / reward equation, many people are averse to taking any
kind of risk that might imperil their physical safety or even their
status quo, even if the present situation is not all that good for
fear that things may get worse. When a political leader offers
safety, the citizens who fear will vote for safety no matter what else
they might need to give up to obtain it. They seem willing to play
follow the leader not caring where he is leading, rationalizing their
choice as patriotism.
This attitude fits right in with religious thinking that one must live
one's life in a way that does not imperil promised eternal rewards.
They want to be assured that they will go to heaven. Atheists don't
need such surety, or they would not be atheists.
I don't think it is so much an acknowledgement of one's own mortality
that makes the difference in political choices, but the realization
that life itself is risky no matter what promises of security are made
by others, and that safety, in and of itself, is no guarantee of
either a good or fulfilling life.
Liz #658 BAAWA
.

User: "ike milligan"
Title: Re: Do atheists have weak "mortality salience?"	01 Sep 2007 11:59:39 AM

"Liz" <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message
news:c3tid3pfp22dv7m4mmvejqs1kh619lppso@4ax.com...

On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:32:20 -0700, Elf M. Sternberg
<elf@speakeasy.net> wrote:

Faaascinating article:

The experiments showed that the mere thought of one's mortality
can trigger a range of emotions--from disdain for other races,
religions, and nations, to a preference for charismatic over
pragmatic leaders, to a heightened attraction to traditional
mores.

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20070827&s=judis082707

The article is particularly scary because it concludes that,
as long as reminders of our own mortality remain front and center of
the political debate, the side that is most capable of exploiting "
his image as a protective shield against death, armed with high-tech
weaponry, patriotic rhetoric, and the resolute invocation of doing
God's will to rid the world of evil," will continue to do best in
elections.

And they are even more willing to give up other peoples' freedom. In fact
that's waht they are willing to give up. They don't think their own is at
stake, just others'

In the risk / reward equation, many people are averse to taking any
kind of risk that might imperil their physical safety or even their
status quo, even if the present situation is not all that good for
fear that things may get worse. When a political leader offers
safety, the citizens who fear will vote for safety no matter what else
they might need to give up to obtain it. They seem willing to play
follow the leader not caring where he is leading, rationalizing their
choice as patriotism.

They don't really believe they are giving up anything of their own. They
think the leader is their friend and will only make people give up stuff,
who are not in tune with the leader

This attitude fits right in with religious thinking that one must live
one's life in a way that does not imperil promised eternal rewards.
They want to be assured that they will go to heaven. Atheists don't
need such surety, or they would not be atheists.

Such irrational beliefs of rewards or punishments after death are indicative
of other fears that are not expressed openly. This is the fear that another
"tribe" of people might steal their livelihood and land and make them
outcasts and rape their women. OTOH if they believe in the religion and the
Leader, they will be able to prosper and have their tribe saved from the
other tribe(s).

I don't think it is so much an acknowledgement of one's own mortality
that makes the difference in political choices, but the realization
that life itself is risky no matter what promises of security are made
by others, and that safety, in and of itself, is no guarantee of
either a good or fulfilling life.

Liz #658 BAAWA

Like I mentioned, or tried to hint at in my other reply, death itself is not
really feared, since the human mind can't fear that which it can't conceive
of, that is personal annhiliation. What is familiar is defeat and victory.
~Ike ##
.

User: "Liz"
Title: Re: Do atheists have weak "mortality salience?"	01 Sep 2007 01:50:00 PM

On Sat, 1 Sep 2007 12:59:39 -0400, "ike milligan"
<accordiondoc@mindspring.com> wrote:

"Liz" <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message
news:c3tid3pfp22dv7m4mmvejqs1kh619lppso@4ax.com...

[----]

And they are even more willing to give up other peoples' freedom. In fact
that's waht they are willing to give up. They don't think their own is at
stake, just others'

They don't really believe they are giving up anything of their own. They
think the leader is their friend and will only make people give up stuff,
who are not in tune with the leader

I can't disagree with you.
Liz #658 BAAWA
.

User: "stoney"
Title: Re: Do atheists have weak "mortality salience?"	08 Sep 2007 08:28:37 PM

On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 10:45:49 -0400, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:

On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:32:20 -0700, Elf M. Sternberg
<elf@speakeasy.net> wrote:

Faaascinating article:

The experiments showed that the mere thought of one's mortality
can trigger a range of emotions--from disdain for other races,
religions, and nations, to a preference for charismatic over
pragmatic leaders, to a heightened attraction to traditional
mores.

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20070827&s=judis082707

The article is particularly scary because it concludes that,
as long as reminders of our own mortality remain front and center of
the political debate, the side that is most capable of exploiting "
his image as a protective shield against death, armed with high-tech
weaponry, patriotic rhetoric, and the resolute invocation of doing
God's will to rid the world of evil," will continue to do best in
elections.

Immediately after 9/11 I noticed a heightened expression of wanting
security at any cost. Quite a few people felt willing to give up
almost any right or freedom in exchange for safety, or at the least,
feeling safe. The overt threat made them more comfortable expressing
such thoughts although they have always operated in our political
process even when they aren't so openly acknowledged.

In the risk / reward equation, many people are averse to taking any
kind of risk that might imperil their physical safety or even their
status quo, even if the present situation is not all that good for
fear that things may get worse. When a political leader offers
safety, the citizens who fear will vote for safety no matter what else
they might need to give up to obtain it. They seem willing to play
follow the leader not caring where he is leading, rationalizing their
choice as patriotism.

This attitude fits right in with religious thinking that one must live
one's life in a way that does not imperil promised eternal rewards.
They want to be assured that they will go to heaven. Atheists don't
need such surety, or they would not be atheists.

I don't think it is so much an acknowledgement of one's own mortality
that makes the difference in political choices, but the realization
that life itself is risky no matter what promises of security are made
by others, and that safety, in and of itself, is no guarantee of
either a good or fulfilling life.

http://www.keepmyfile.com/image/7f66951864758
Like this fearful and very insecure fundy at a Northern Calif. fair.
I only watched him for a few minutes. He wasn't bothering anyone and
I didn't see anyone approach his, err, haven. Poor sot.

Liz #658 BAAWA

User: "Al Klein"
Title: Re: Do atheists have weak "mortality salience?"	08 Sep 2007 11:38:43 PM

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 18:28:37 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

Like this fearful and very insecure fundy at a Northern Calif. fair.
I only watched him for a few minutes. He wasn't bothering anyone and
I didn't see anyone approach his, err, haven. Poor sot.

You know the questions, right?
1) Do you believe everything you hear?
2) Are you a moron?
.

User: "stoney"
Title: Re: Do atheists have weak "mortality salience?"	13 Sep 2007 12:01:50 AM

On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 00:38:43 -0400, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 18:28:37 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

Like this fearful and very insecure fundy at a Northern Calif. fair.
I only watched him for a few minutes. He wasn't bothering anyone and
I didn't see anyone approach his, err, haven. Poor sot.

You know the questions, right?

1) Do you believe everything you hear?

2) Are you a moron?

LOL!
.

User: "Liz"
Title: Re: Do atheists have weak "mortality salience?"	09 Sep 2007 08:01:26 AM

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 18:28:37 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 10:45:49 -0400, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:

On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:32:20 -0700, Elf M. Sternberg
<elf@speakeasy.net> wrote:

Faaascinating article:

The experiments showed that the mere thought of one's mortality
can trigger a range of emotions--from disdain for other races,
religions, and nations, to a preference for charismatic over
pragmatic leaders, to a heightened attraction to traditional
mores.

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20070827&s=judis082707

The article is particularly scary because it concludes that,
as long as reminders of our own mortality remain front and center of
the political debate, the side that is most capable of exploiting "
his image as a protective shield against death, armed with high-tech
weaponry, patriotic rhetoric, and the resolute invocation of doing
God's will to rid the world of evil," will continue to do best in
elections.

Immediately after 9/11 I noticed a heightened expression of wanting
security at any cost. Quite a few people felt willing to give up
almost any right or freedom in exchange for safety, or at the least,
feeling safe. The overt threat made them more comfortable expressing
such thoughts although they have always operated in our political
process even when they aren't so openly acknowledged.

In the risk / reward equation, many people are averse to taking any
kind of risk that might imperil their physical safety or even their
status quo, even if the present situation is not all that good for
fear that things may get worse. When a political leader offers
safety, the citizens who fear will vote for safety no matter what else
they might need to give up to obtain it. They seem willing to play
follow the leader not caring where he is leading, rationalizing their
choice as patriotism.

This attitude fits right in with religious thinking that one must live
one's life in a way that does not imperil promised eternal rewards.
They want to be assured that they will go to heaven. Atheists don't
need such surety, or they would not be atheists.

I don't think it is so much an acknowledgement of one's own mortality
that makes the difference in political choices, but the realization
that life itself is risky no matter what promises of security are made
by others, and that safety, in and of itself, is no guarantee of
either a good or fulfilling life.

http://www.keepmyfile.com/image/7f66951864758

Like this fearful and very insecure fundy at a Northern Calif. fair.
I only watched him for a few minutes. He wasn't bothering anyone and
I didn't see anyone approach his, err, haven. Poor sot.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the sight of salvation being
served in the same manner as corn dogs. It is, however,
disconcerting.
Liz #658 BAAWA
.

User: "stoney"
Title: Re: Do atheists have weak "mortality salience?"	13 Sep 2007 12:06:23 AM

On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 09:01:26 -0400, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 18:28:37 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 10:45:49 -0400, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:

[]

http://www.keepmyfile.com/image/7f66951864758

Like this fearful and very insecure fundy at a Northern Calif. fair.
I only watched him for a few minutes. He wasn't bothering anyone and
I didn't see anyone approach his, err, haven. Poor sot.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the sight of salvation being
served in the same manner as corn dogs. It is, however,
disconcerting.

But what if the salvation is being served on a sesame seed bun?
There's a couple of 'fundy mobiles' around here. One I've seen a few
times is a cobalt blue van and I don't recall the other one. I didn't
check the rig this guy had.
.

User: "Liz"
Title: Re: Do atheists have weak "mortality salience?"	13 Sep 2007 05:33:27 AM

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 22:06:23 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 09:01:26 -0400, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 18:28:37 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 10:45:49 -0400, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:

[]

http://www.keepmyfile.com/image/7f66951864758

Like this fearful and very insecure fundy at a Northern Calif. fair.
I only watched him for a few minutes. He wasn't bothering anyone and
I didn't see anyone approach his, err, haven. Poor sot.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the sight of salvation being
served in the same manner as corn dogs. It is, however,
disconcerting.

But what if the salvation is being served on a sesame seed bun?

It's the special sauce that I question.

There's a couple of 'fundy mobiles' around here. One I've seen a few
times is a cobalt blue van and I don't recall the other one. I didn't
check the rig this guy had.

Liz #658 BAAWA
.

User: "stoney"
Title: Re: Do atheists have weak "mortality salience?"	18 Sep 2007 07:25:25 PM

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 06:33:27 -0400, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 22:06:23 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 09:01:26 -0400, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 18:28:37 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 10:45:49 -0400, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:

[]

http://www.keepmyfile.com/image/7f66951864758

Like this fearful and very insecure fundy at a Northern Calif. fair.
I only watched him for a few minutes. He wasn't bothering anyone and
I didn't see anyone approach his, err, haven. Poor sot.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the sight of salvation being
served in the same manner as corn dogs. It is, however,
disconcerting.

But what if the salvation is being served on a sesame seed bun?

It's the special sauce that I question.

It is produced in semenaries.....
.

User: "Liz"
Title: Re: Do atheists have weak "mortality salience?"	18 Sep 2007 07:46:32 PM

On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:25:25 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 06:33:27 -0400, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 22:06:23 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 09:01:26 -0400, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 18:28:37 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 10:45:49 -0400, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:

[]

http://www.keepmyfile.com/image/7f66951864758

Like this fearful and very insecure fundy at a Northern Calif. fair.
I only watched him for a few minutes. He wasn't bothering anyone and
I didn't see anyone approach his, err, haven. Poor sot.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the sight of salvation being
served in the same manner as corn dogs. It is, however,
disconcerting.

But what if the salvation is being served on a sesame seed bun?

It's the special sauce that I question.

It is produced in semenaries.....

I knew I should have worn the HazMat suit.
Liz #658 BAAWA
.

User: "stoney"
Title: Re: Do atheists have weak "mortality salience?"	26 Sep 2007 08:05:22 PM

On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 20:46:32 -0400, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:25:25 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 06:33:27 -0400, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 22:06:23 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 09:01:26 -0400, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 18:28:37 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 10:45:49 -0400, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:

[]

http://www.keepmyfile.com/image/7f66951864758

Like this fearful and very insecure fundy at a Northern Calif. fair.
I only watched him for a few minutes. He wasn't bothering anyone and
I didn't see anyone approach his, err, haven. Poor sot.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the sight of salvation being
served in the same manner as corn dogs. It is, however,
disconcerting.

But what if the salvation is being served on a sesame seed bun?

It's the special sauce that I question.

It is produced in semenaries.....

I knew I should have worn the HazMat suit.

I heard they homo-gen-ize it. Don't know if that helps, or not....

Liz #658 BAAWA

User: "Liz"
Title: Re: Do atheists have weak "mortality salience?"	26 Sep 2007 08:24:49 PM

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:05:22 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 20:46:32 -0400, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:25:25 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 06:33:27 -0400, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 22:06:23 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 09:01:26 -0400, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 18:28:37 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 10:45:49 -0400, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:

[]

http://www.keepmyfile.com/image/7f66951864758

Like this fearful and very insecure fundy at a Northern Calif. fair.
I only watched him for a few minutes. He wasn't bothering anyone and
I didn't see anyone approach his, err, haven. Poor sot.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the sight of salvation being
served in the same manner as corn dogs. It is, however,
disconcerting.

But what if the salvation is being served on a sesame seed bun?

It's the special sauce that I question.

It is produced in semenaries.....

I knew I should have worn the HazMat suit.

I heard they homo-gen-ize it. Don't know if that helps, or not....

No.
It doesn't.
Liz #658 BAAWA
.

User: "stoney"
Title: Re: Do atheists have weak "mortality salience?"	08 Oct 2007 08:13:56 PM

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 21:24:49 -0400, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote: