news:1149854458.451709.291480@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

O geniuses out there! Please answer if you have any answer.

ex-ist meaning from-ist. are we from-ists?
i would see us as to-ists at times or do-ists,
but then again, from-ists-isms may lead to to-ist-isms

"ume$h" <fraternitydisposal@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149854458.451709.291480@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

O geniuses out there! Please answer if you have any answer.

"ume$h" <fraternitydisposal@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149854458.451709.291480@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

O geniuses out there! Please answer if you have any answer.

Yes "we" do. There seem to be somewhat over about 6 billion examples,
current estimate, of the "we" I assume you allude to. This being a fairly
large number of examples of the "we" it appears exceedingly likely that "we"
exist.

O geniuses out there! Please answer if you have any answer.

Yes "we" do. There seem to be somewhat over about 6 billion examples,
current estimate, of the "we" I assume you allude to. This being a fairly
large number of examples of the "we" it appears exceedingly likely that "we"
exist.

In article <1149854458.451709.291480@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
"ume$h" <fraternitydisposal@gmail.com> wrote:

O geniuses out there! Please answer if you have any answer.

I know I exist. You on the other hand, I'm not so sure of...

On 9 Jun 2006 05:00:58 -0700, "ume$h" <fraternitydisposal@gmail.com>
wrote:

Please answer if you have any answer.

Rene Descarte attempted to shed some light on this with his famous
"Cogito ergo sum" ("Je pense, donc je suis"), which has been butchered
by pseudo-philosophers like psychobabbleologists who want to read
their sophist ideologies into it.

Cogito means "I am aware of my own existence, therefore I exist." It
is self-awareness that confirms existence, for it would be absurd to
be self-aware and not exist. Even if you adamantly claim that you do
not exist, there is still your self awareness that permits you to make
that claim in the first place, so you do exist after all.

However, this certainty regarding your own existence is subjective and
cannot be rationally proven to anyone else. For all you know, you are
the only being that exists and all the rest is an illusion, like with
Neo inside The Matrix.

From Wikipedia:
+++
In his [Descarte] belief in his own existence he finds it: it is
impossible to doubt that he exists. Even if there were a deceiving
god, his belief in his own existence would be secure, for how could he
be deceived unless he existed in order to be deceived?

"But I have convinced myself that there is absolutely nothing in
the world, no sky, no earth, no minds, no bodies. Does it now follow
that I too do not exist? No: if I convinced myself of something [or
thought anything at all] then I certainly existed. But there is a
deceiver of supreme power and cunning who is deliberately and
constantly deceiving me. In that case I too undoubtedly exist, if he
is deceiving me; and let him deceive me as much as he can, he will
never bring it about that I am nothing so long as I think that I am
something. So, after considering everything very thoroughly, I must
finally conclude that the proposition, I am, I exist, is necessarily
true whenever it is put forward by me or conceived in my mind." (AT
VII 25; CSM II 16-17)

There are two important notes to keep in mind here. First, he only
claims the certainty of his own existence from the first-person point
of view - he has not proved the existence of other minds at this
point. This is something that has to be thought through by each of us
for ourselves, as we follow the course of the meditations. Secondly,
he is not saying that his existence is necessary; he is saying that if
he's thinking, then he necessarily exists (see the instantiation
principle).

Descartes does not use this first certainty, the cogito, as a
foundation upon which to build further knowledge; rather, it is the
firm ground upon which he can stand as he works to restore his
beliefs. As he puts it:

"Archimedes used to demand just one firm and immovable point in
order to shift the entire earth; so I too can hope for great things if
I manage to find just one thing, however slight, that is certain and
unshakeable." (AT VII 24; CSM II 16)

Perhaps what Descartes meant, simply put is "I am vividly aware of my
existence".
+++


--

1. The Hill


WHERE are Elmer, Herman, Bert, Tom and Charley,
The weak of will, the strong of arm, the clown, the boozer, the fighter?
All, all, are sleeping on the hill.

One passed in a fever,
One was burned in a mine,
One was killed in a brawl,
One died in a jail,
One fell from a bridge toiling for children and wife
All, all are sleeping, sleeping, sleeping on the hill.

Where are Ella, Kate, Mag, Lizzie and Edith,
The tender heart, the simple soul, the loud, the proud, the happy one?
All, all, are sleeping on the hill.

One died in shameful child-birth,
One of a thwarted love,
One at the hands of a brute in a brothel,
One of a broken pride, in the search for heart's desire,
One after life in far-away London and Paris
Was brought to her little space by Ella and Kate and Mag
All, all are sleeping, sleeping, sleeping on the hill.

Where are Uncle Isaac and Aunt Emily,
And old Towny Kincaid and Sevigne Houghton,
And Major Walker who had talked
With venerable men of the revolution?
All, all, are sleeping on the hill.

They brought them dead sons from the war,
And daughters whom life had crushed,
And their children fatherless, crying
All, all are sleeping, sleeping, sleeping on the hill.

Where is Old Fiddler Jones
Who played with life all his ninety years,
Braving the sleet with bared breast,
Drinking, rioting, thinking neither of wife nor kin,
Nor gold, nor love, nor heaven?
Lo! he babbles of the fish-frys of long ago,
Of the horse-races of long ago at Clary's Grove,
Of what Abe Lincoln said
One time at Springfield.

Rene Descarte attempted to shed some light on this with his famous
"Cogito ergo sum" ("Je pense, donc je suis"), which has been butchered
by pseudo-philosophers like psychobabbleologists who want to read
their sophist ideologies into it.

Cogito means "I am aware of my own existence, therefore I exist." It
is self-awareness that confirms existence, for it would be absurd to