| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Bill M" |
| Date: |
04 Nov 2007 06:24:13 AM |
| Object: |
DOES ANY GOD EXIST? |
There is NO objective verifiable evidence for the existence of ANY gods.
Lots of opinions but NO evidence! God beliefs are no more sound or realistic
than beliefs in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy
Evidence of gods;
There is NO objective verifiable evidence any gods have ever spoken to any
sane men. There is only the 'subjective opinions' of errant men.
There is NO objective verifiable evidence any gods have ever appeared to any
sane men. There is only the 'subjective opinions' of errant men.
Why does this all powerful god creator never communicate with us? Why does
he never authenticate his very existence?
There is NO objective verifiable evidence that any Heavens, Hells, Gods,
Spirits, Angels or Saints actually exist except in the imaginations of man.
There is a wealth of objective verifiable material evidence that NO gods
actually exist.
Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Floods,
Wars, Earth Quakes, Cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases and
serious body malfunctions? There are 12,000 known diseases that affect and
punish mankind indiscriminately. Why does he permit millions of both young
and old to starve to death or die of miserable diseases? Why punish millions
of INNOCENT CHILDREN in this horrible way?
Why does this all powerful and caring god permit totally "innocent children"
to die at birth? Or worse, be born lacking eyesight, a fully developed
brain, deaf and dumb, missing limbs etc.? Why are some born idiots and
others with super intelligence? Why are some born into wealth and others
pauper poor? Why does he permit over 2,000,000 innocent children to die of
starvation every year? Why are his human creations designed to deteriorate
into a miserable and devastating old age regardless of their religious
affiliation?
God supposedly created the world like it is, to punish man for Adam and Eve's
'original sin'. Why does he also punish supposedly innocent children and
animals with thousands of diseases, birth defects, starvation and to be
eaten by other animals?
Why did this all powerful and loving creator create things like sharks,
jelly fish, octopus, lions, tigers, rhinoceros, wolves, poisonous snakes,
stinging and poisonous insects, poisonous plants etc.? Why did this caring
and benevolent god create animals (including man) that need to painfully
kill and eat other animals to survive?
World War I claimed 9,000,000 lives of people of many religious faiths.
World II indiscriminately claimed over 20,000,000 lives of people of all
ages and religious faiths, plus a vast destruction of property and more
millions maimed for life.
The recent Asian Tsunami has claimed the lives of 200,000 men, women and
children of all religious persuasions. Over 100,000 of these were totally
INNOCENT children!
There were three major epidemics of the Bubonic Plaque - in the 6th, 14th.
and 17th centuries. The death toll was over 137 million men, women and
totally innocent children.
The influenza of 1918-1919 killed at least 25 million men, women and
innocent children indiscriminately.
Diseases like malaria, AIDS, tuberculosis, etc. maim and kill millions
indiscriminately every year. More millions die of starvation and
malnutrition.
These indiscriminately afflicted the young and old, atheists and those of
all religious persuasions.
Meanwhile MAN, not god, has developed defenses and cures for hundreds of
serious diseases. Man has learned to create shelter, heat and cooling,
purify water, world wide electronic communications, power and transportation
systems including flying through the air.
Man has created a wonderful medical and drug system and improved housing and
food production. The result of MAN'S inventiveness has
DOUBLED the average life span. None of this was created by any gods.
Perhaps your loving and caring god is actually a cruel, heartless, mean and
torturing tyrant. If he treats us so cruelly during life, why do you think
he will let us enjoy peace and eternal happiness in his Heaven? And why does
he keep all this a secret by preventing communication with our dead parents,
siblings and friends? (Or this god?)
There are thousands of different religious and god beliefs but NO OBJECTIVE
VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE for the actual existence of ANY of these gods. ALL god
beliefs are based on the unsubstantiated 'opinions and claims' of errant
men.
If there is a god that created the Universe, he is obviously not an
all-caring and benevolent god. Nor is he an "Intelligent Designer". The
objective evidence is if there is a god creator, he has NO concern about the
welfare of the creatures on Earth.
The objective evidence is that no gods created man but quite the opposite;
that man created gods!
I challenge god believers to supply ANY objective verifiable evidence that
their god actually exists except in their over active imaginations.
.
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| User: "les_on_usenet" |
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| Title: Re: YES! |
16 Jan 2008 04:39:29 AM |
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On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:12:24 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
<PF@christfirst.edu> wrote:
Typical atheist to always know what's "not", but being totally clueless
about what something is.
Noted and added to list.
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
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| User: "Budd Cochran" |
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| Title: Re: YES! |
11 Jan 2008 12:43:55 PM |
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"les_on_usenet" <delete-unread@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:8ubeo3t4j1gfi2vve72fci7hoppipkvd2j@4ax.com...
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:33:24 -0700, "Budd Cochran"
<mr.establishment440@bresnan.net> wrote:
I don't understand the atheistic ability to believe in "nothing", as
there
would be "nothing' to place those beliefs upon, "nothing" to give peace,
hope, joy, love, security, confidence, a reason to do good, to live, or to
even think you might be anything.
You inability to understand your own strawman is noted
bumper sticker: "My God can whip your god"
Your desire to denegrate and tear down that you do not understand
is also noted.
And mistaken.
As I like to see the good in people I will assume that you are here
seeking to understand why we are atheist, perhaps because you feel
deep down that your beliefs are unsatisfactory. Perhaps you have
seen what it has done to Frank. Do you pity this poor wretch as I
do>) With this belief of mine (so you see I do have beliefs) I will
try and help you.
Don't bother as you are wrong in your assumption, which assumptions tend to
be by nature.
Theist are people who claim there is a god of their definition. There
are of course thousands of such claims each with a god of a different
definition.
I'm not a theist, I'm a Christian.
Most of us think that it would be foolish and a sign of gullibility
to accept one or more of these claims just on the say so of
the claimants and that anybody with a modicum of common
sense would ask these claimants how they knew there was such
a creature and how they learned what they claim about it.
And yet you accept someone's unsupported claim, while there's centuries of
support for Crhistianity?
Clearly if they claim what they claim they aught to be able
to explain how they know about this god and what they know
about it in a way we can check and verify. I am sure
honest believers would be more than happy to provide
the evidence whilst deceivers would seek to dodge or
ignore the question.
Is your belief in your mind or your heart? How does one show the difference
between a head conversion to a lack of moral guidance over a coversion in
the being to a life guided by one shown by evidence to exist and to love me?
That they never do explain how they know these things
and usually dodge or ignore the question exposes their
false claims and is the reason why we do not believe them
or their claim. To date not one single theist have given
us an explanation how they know. Some show they are
honest but clearly self-deluded whilst most simply expose
their falseness by dodging the question. So you see
we have no reason to be theist as none of their claims
have been shown to be valid and acceptable
If one isn't open to accepting spiritual conversions based on personal
testimony and historical records, then one wouldn't accept God walking up
and saying "Hi!".
So you see we don't buy fake cures, Viagra from spam
Emails, fall for Nigerians offering us vast wealth, go
to Tarot card reasdings, attend seances, believe in
the existence of Thor, Zeus, the gods of the Bible
and thousands of other false god claims.
No, the situation is simple: you dare not consider that there anyone greater
than yourself in the universe.
That we do not accept unjustified beliefs does not mean,
of course that we do not have other beliefs it is just
that these beliefs have sufficient evidence to justify
acceptance.
Evolution? Where's the transistional fossils? How come a Creation museum has
a fossil of a fish burried in sediment so quickly it couldn't finish
lunch???
Nor, for that matter does it mean we cannot experience
joy and happiness. Indeed only a few weeks ago
my cousins daughter had her first bably and I was
able to see and experience her love for her clhild and
her great joy and happiness. Seeing that joy makes
me smile even know.
Think for a moment: until birth, that child wasn't a human being according
to your beliefs, just a chunk of growing tissue.
Knowing that I am capable of standing on my own feet
without need of a rod and staff of a fake god to
comfort me gives me great strength and happiness
so am not in need of comfort.
And how many times have you cried out in desperate times, Oh, God, help
me!"???? ;)
Ye though I walk tall through the valley of the shadow
of Christianity I will not fear their evil, their spite
and their constant desire to denegrate and tear me
down to their sad level.
Tell me one time Christianity brought ruin? Btw, Hitler wasn't a Christian
(evolutionist), the Crusades were a misguided attempt to disguise a greed
for wealth as a holy war.
I hope this helps you realise that the one true
path to true happiness is by not believing false
claims. Frank seems to gain pleasure from this
desire to scorn as this quote shows
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:05:54 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
<PF@christfirst.edu> wrote:
Atheists proclaiming "things of value"? You got us all in knots of
apoplectic laughter.
I wonder, is this true happiness?
Still it is nice to see Frank happy for once. Maybe I should
give him more things of value to scorn and denegrate? If tearing
things of value down is what makes him happy then I
pity him. Well I pity him anyway.
Nope, that would be too much work for me.
So you choose the lazy way, yes?
Please I beg you take a lesson from Frank. Religion is
a wihdrawl from reality into a fantasy detachment from this
world. It may look the easier way but it is far from it.
Taken too far it can lead to obsession and madness.
Please do not follow this downward path to despair
and learn to stand on your own two feet as we have.
And you can't see the courage required to stand up for my beliefs against
those, like yourself, that want to tear them down simply because the
historical evidence of the life of Christ is an abomination to you?
Oh, pray tell what would be more courageous? How about being falsly accused
and not defending oneself, illegally tried, nearly beat to death, ridiculed,
spat upon, and then killed in the most painful way know to man and doing all
in somebodyelse's stead.
Ooops, that was Jesus, wasn't it?
And it's all recorded.
I hope this helps you.
The well have no need of healing
Please note that this will likely draw yet more scorn
from Frank but if that makes him happy I will not
begrude him what little happiness he seems to get.
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
Frank scorns only what deserves scorn.
Budd
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| User: "les_on_usenet" |
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| Title: Re: YES! |
11 Jan 2008 02:15:58 PM |
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On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 11:43:55 -0700, "Budd Cochran"
<mr.establishment440@bresnan.net> wrote:
"les_on_usenet" <delete-unread@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:8ubeo3t4j1gfi2vve72fci7hoppipkvd2j@4ax.com...
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:33:24 -0700, "Budd Cochran"
<mr.establishment440@bresnan.net> wrote:
I don't understand the atheistic ability to believe in "nothing", as
there
would be "nothing' to place those beliefs upon, "nothing" to give peace,
hope, joy, love, security, confidence, a reason to do good, to live, or to
even think you might be anything.
You inability to understand your own strawman is noted
bumper sticker: "My God can whip your god"
Your desire to denegrate and tear down that you do not understand
is also noted.
And mistaken.
As I like to see the good in people I will assume that you are here
seeking to understand why we are atheist, perhaps because you feel
deep down that your beliefs are unsatisfactory. Perhaps you have
seen what it has done to Frank. Do you pity this poor wretch as I
do>) With this belief of mine (so you see I do have beliefs) I will
try and help you.
Don't bother as you are wrong in your assumption, which assumptions tend to
be by nature.
So if you are not here consciously to be persuaded by us, and you
are not here to denegrate and tear us down based on strawmen
lies why are you here?
You have certainly not attempted to justify your claim that there is
such a thing as a god.
Theist are people who claim there is a god of their definition. There
are of course thousands of such claims each with a god of a different
definition.
I'm not a theist, I'm a Christian.
one who is not theist is atheist.
Most of us think that it would be foolish and a sign of gullibility
to accept one or more of these claims just on the say so of
the claimants and that anybody with a modicum of common
sense would ask these claimants how they knew there was such
a creature and how they learned what they claim about it.
And yet you accept someone's unsupported claim, while there's centuries of
support for Crhistianity?
Which unsupported claim would that be?
Clearly if they claim what they claim they aught to be able
to explain how they know about this god and what they know
about it in a way we can check and verify. I am sure
honest believers would be more than happy to provide
the evidence whilst deceivers would seek to dodge or
ignore the question.
Is your belief in your mind or your heart?
All my beliefs and thoughts occur in my mind whilst the
heart pumps blood
Next stupid question..
How does one show the difference
between a head conversion to a lack of moral guidance over a coversion in
the being to a life guided by one shown by evidence to exist and to love me?
English translation please
I note your attempt to ignore the above paragraph with
meaningless twaddle.
That they never do explain how they know these things
and usually dodge or ignore the question exposes their
false claims and is the reason why we do not believe them
or their claim. To date not one single theist have given
us an explanation how they know. Some show they are
honest but clearly self-deluded whilst most simply expose
their falseness by dodging the question. So you see
we have no reason to be theist as none of their claims
have been shown to be valid and acceptable
If one isn't open to accepting spiritual conversions based on personal
testimony and historical records, then one wouldn't accept God walking up
and saying "Hi!".
more meaningless twaddle in an attemt to ignore the
above paragraph.
So you see we don't buy fake cures, Viagra from spam
Emails, fall for Nigerians offering us vast wealth, go
to Tarot card reasdings, attend seances, believe in
the existence of Thor, Zeus, the gods of the Bible
and thousands of other false god claims.
No, the situation is simple: you dare not consider that there anyone greater
than yourself in the universe.
From where do you get this assertion?
I know of many people who are or were far greater than I.
As to life on other planets well, we just don't know do we?
That we do not accept unjustified beliefs does not mean,
of course that we do not have other beliefs it is just
that these beliefs have sufficient evidence to justify
acceptance.
Evolution? Where's the transistional fossils? How come a Creation museum has
a fossil of a fish burried in sediment so quickly it couldn't finish
lunch???
Please try and keeo on topic. You seem to be drifting off
all over the place. You will be tlking about you last holiday
nect.
Nor, for that matter does it mean we cannot experience
joy and happiness. Indeed only a few weeks ago
my cousins daughter had her first bably and I was
able to see and experience her love for her clhild and
her great joy and happiness. Seeing that joy makes
me smile even know.
Think for a moment: until birth, that child wasn't a human being according
to your beliefs, just a chunk of growing tissue.
Again you wander off topic.
With a false statement about what I supposedly
belief.
Knowing that I am capable of standing on my own feet
without need of a rod and staff of a fake god to
comfort me gives me great strength and happiness
so am not in need of comfort.
And how many times have you cried out in desperate times, Oh, God, help
me!"???? ;)
Never, but then I have never gone through desperate times.
In any case why would I make a futile cry out to something I
see only as somebody elses unsupported claim. You comment
makes no sense
Ye though I walk tall through the valley of the shadow
of Christianity I will not fear their evil, their spite
and their constant desire to denegrate and tear me
down to their sad level.
Tell me one time Christianity brought ruin? Btw, Hitler wasn't a Christian
(evolutionist), the Crusades were a misguided attempt to disguise a greed
for wealth as a holy war.
Hitler was cetainly a believer in gods whether they were Christian
or otherwise is moot but the Austrian people were mostly devout
Catholic as was Bavarianh is main power base. Northern Germany
was mostly Protestan then. Not now. Hitler could have done nothing
without their support. It was they, not him, that jackbooted all over
Europe padres by their side and "Gott mit uns" on their belt buckles
destroying all as they retreated. The nazi thugs who ran
the concentration camps prayed in church on Sunday and
gassed jews on Monday taking the old time traditions of
catholic persecution of jews to new heights of barbarity.
Remember Hitler was brought up as a catholic.
If you wish another example: Protestants in England
proscribed the RCC religion banning the mass. Any
priest found holding the mass or any Jesuit was executed
on sight. This is a direct result of a particular Christian
belief.
Wait, there is more:
The catholics of Paris massacred Hugenots people
whose believes differed from the party line. The
Pope expressed pleasure.
The Armada created by the devout and pious
King of Spain in responce to a call by the Pope
for a Crusade against "hereric England" did not cause
any English casualties but many a poor Spaniard
perished mostly as a result on storms that dashed
their ships on the rocks all round our coastline.
Beware Christian bearing beliefs.
Frank scorns only what deserves scorn.
Except he scorns his straw men atheist as
do you. His idea, and you idea, of what atheism
is bears no relation to what being atheist really
means.
As I say, beware Christians berearing beliefs they
bring only misery scorn and a desire to denegrate
and tear down things of value.
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
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| User: "Kelsey Bjarnason" |
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| Title: Re: YES! |
15 Jan 2008 04:22:29 PM |
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[snips]
On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 11:43:55 -0700, Budd Cochran wrote:
Theist are people who claim there is a god of their definition. There
are of course thousands of such claims each with a god of a different
definition.
I'm not a theist
If you're not a theist, you're an atheist.
I'm a Christian.
But Christians are theists, and you just said you were an atheist.
So you're not just stupid, you're a liar, too. Got it - we shouldn't take
*anything* you say seriously.
As I said... Loki troll. I have trouble believing anyone could be as
stupid - and now dishonest - as you are. I just don't think it's possible.
--
Besides, I was an atheist infidel; what could I
possibly know about ‘God’? -- Marty Leipzig
Show them the one you carved out of wood. . . . -- David Rice
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| User: "SkyEyes" |
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| Title: Re: YES! |
15 Jan 2008 05:52:28 PM |
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On Jan 15, 3:22=A0pm, Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjarna...@gmail.com> wrote:
[snips]
On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 11:43:55 -0700, Budd Cochran wrote:
Theist are people who claim there is a god of their definition. There
are of course thousands of such claims each with a god of a different
definition.
I'm not a theist
If you're not a theist, you're an atheist.
I'm a Christian.
But Christians are theists, and you just said you were an atheist.
So you're not just stupid, you're a liar, too. =A0Got it - we shouldn't ta=
ke
*anything* you say seriously.
As I said... Loki troll. =A0I have trouble believing anyone could be as
stupid - and now dishonest - as you are. =A0I just don't think it's possib=
le.
I wish I could agree with you and believe this guy is a Loki, but he
reminds me of all the fundy born-agains that I grew up with, so I
don't think he is.
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
skyeyes nine at cox dot net
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: YES! |
10 Jan 2008 11:44:02 PM |
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Scott Richter wrote:
les_on_usenet <delete-unread@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 20:30:00 -0500, "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu>
wrote:
I am afraid the opposite is true, for I was an atheist most of my life
and know very well what it's like. It was that pervasive atheist negativity
and resulting cynicism, paranoia and despair, which led me to abandon it.
That was your atheism and nothing that I recognise. By applying your
experience to everybody esle is a further sign of you self-centric
view of life
Without any prompting, Frank simply reaffirmed what I just said. He has
absolutely no recognition of his own personality disorder, despite being
so glaringly apparent to everyone else. He also externalizes his rage,
claiming, as he has done before, that it is atheists who made him that
way.
Frank is a textbook example of religiously influenced narcissistic
behavior, a disorder that churches strongly nurture as a way to maintain
control over their members. For whatever reason, this newsgroup seems to
attract these types by the boatload...
.....and they all seem to have something else in common - thick skin.
.
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| User: "Budd Cochran" |
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| Title: Re: YES! |
11 Jan 2008 12:46:11 PM |
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"bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:47870189.36616094@netvigator.com...
Scott Richter wrote:
les_on_usenet <delete-unread@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 20:30:00 -0500, "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu>
wrote:
I am afraid the opposite is true, for I was an atheist most of my
life
and know very well what it's like. It was that pervasive atheist
negativity
and resulting cynicism, paranoia and despair, which led me to abandon
it.
That was your atheism and nothing that I recognise. By applying your
experience to everybody esle is a further sign of you self-centric
view of life
Without any prompting, Frank simply reaffirmed what I just said. He has
absolutely no recognition of his own personality disorder, despite being
so glaringly apparent to everyone else. He also externalizes his rage,
claiming, as he has done before, that it is atheists who made him that
way.
Frank is a textbook example of religiously influenced narcissistic
behavior, a disorder that churches strongly nurture as a way to maintain
control over their members. For whatever reason, this newsgroup seems to
attract these types by the boatload...
....and they all seem to have something else in common - thick skin.
Isaiah, speaking on strength given by our God: "And they shall mount up on
the wings of Eagles" Their feet will not fail."
Uh, you do know our God is omnipotent, right?
Budd
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| User: "Scott Richter" |
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| Title: Re: YES! |
12 Jan 2008 10:54:16 AM |
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Budd Cochran <mr.establishment440@bresnan.net> wrote:
Uh, you do know our God is omnipotent, right?
Yeah, imaginary friends are great that way, aren't they? You can dress
them up with any magical powers you wish, just like eight year old girls
do to Barbie!
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: YES! |
14 Jan 2008 08:07:37 PM |
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"Scott Richter" <scottrichter422@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1ialfek.11wtvnk13neureN%scottrichter422@yahoo.com...
Budd Cochran <mr.establishment440@bresnan.net> wrote:
Uh, you do know our God is omnipotent, right?
Yeah, imaginary friends are great that way, aren't they? You can dress
them up with any magical powers you wish, just like eight year old girls
do to Barbie!
Wrong analogy. Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) and amor
vincit omnia. Or don't you believe that love conquers all?
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "Dubh Ghall" |
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| Title: Re: YES! |
16 Jan 2008 08:34:14 AM |
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On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:07:37 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
<PF@christfirst.edu> wrote:
"Scott Richter" <scottrichter422@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1ialfek.11wtvnk13neureN%scottrichter422@yahoo.com...
Budd Cochran <mr.establishment440@bresnan.net> wrote:
Uh, you do know our God is omnipotent, right?
Yeah, imaginary friends are great that way, aren't they? You can dress
them up with any magical powers you wish, just like eight year old girls
do to Barbie!
Wrong analogy. Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) and amor
vincit omnia. Or don't you believe that love conquers all?
No Frank, we don't.
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| User: "Rev. Karl E. Taylor" |
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| Title: Re: YES! |
12 Jan 2008 11:20:37 AM |
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Budd Cochran wrote:
"bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:47870189.36616094@netvigator.com...
Scott Richter wrote:
les_on_usenet <delete-unread@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 20:30:00 -0500, "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu>
wrote:
I am afraid the opposite is true, for I was an atheist most of my
life
and know very well what it's like. It was that pervasive atheist
negativity
and resulting cynicism, paranoia and despair, which led me to abandon
it.
That was your atheism and nothing that I recognise. By applying your
experience to everybody esle is a further sign of you self-centric
view of life
Without any prompting, Frank simply reaffirmed what I just said. He has
absolutely no recognition of his own personality disorder, despite being
so glaringly apparent to everyone else. He also externalizes his rage,
claiming, as he has done before, that it is atheists who made him that
way.
Frank is a textbook example of religiously influenced narcissistic
behavior, a disorder that churches strongly nurture as a way to maintain
control over their members. For whatever reason, this newsgroup seems to
attract these types by the boatload...
....and they all seem to have something else in common - thick skin.
Isaiah, speaking on strength given by our God: "And they shall mount up on
the wings of Eagles" Their feet will not fail."
Uh, you do know our God is omnipotent, right?
Except when it comes to amputees, right?
--
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
____________________________________________________________________
Rev. Karl E. Taylor http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/
A.A #1143 http://scienceblogs.com/aardvarchaeology/
Apostle of Dr. Lao EAC: Virgin Conversion Unit Director
____________________________________________________________________
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| User: "thomas p." |
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| Title: Re: YES! |
12 Jan 2008 01:09:22 PM |
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"Rev. Karl E. Taylor" <ktayloraz@getnet.net> skrev i en meddelelse
news:7g9n55-ng32.ln1@dhcpdns2.ddsoho.com...
Budd Cochran wrote:
"bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:47870189.36616094@netvigator.com...
Scott Richter wrote:
les_on_usenet <delete-unread@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 20:30:00 -0500, "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu>
wrote:
I am afraid the opposite is true, for I was an atheist most of my
life
and know very well what it's like. It was that pervasive atheist
negativity
and resulting cynicism, paranoia and despair, which led me to abandon
it.
That was your atheism and nothing that I recognise. By applying your
experience to everybody esle is a further sign of you self-centric
view of life
Without any prompting, Frank simply reaffirmed what I just said. He has
absolutely no recognition of his own personality disorder, despite
being
so glaringly apparent to everyone else. He also externalizes his rage,
claiming, as he has done before, that it is atheists who made him that
way.
Frank is a textbook example of religiously influenced narcissistic
behavior, a disorder that churches strongly nurture as a way to
maintain
control over their members. For whatever reason, this newsgroup seems
to
attract these types by the boatload...
....and they all seem to have something else in common - thick skin.
Isaiah, speaking on strength given by our God: "And they shall mount up
on the wings of Eagles" Their feet will not fail."
Uh, you do know our God is omnipotent, right?
Except when it comes to amputees, right?
And iron chariots.
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| User: "JessHC" |
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| Title: Re: YES! |
11 Jan 2008 02:34:32 PM |
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Budd Cochran wrote:
Isaiah, speaking on strength given by our God: "And they shall mount up on
the wings of Eagles" Their feet will not fail."
Yes, atheists are ALWAYS impressed with bible misquotes.
Uh, you do know our God is omnipotent, right?
Apparently it's so omnipotent it can contradict logic and reality
while being completely undetectable and behaving exactly in the manner
of something nonexistent.
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: YES! |
11 Jan 2008 03:04:18 PM |
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"bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:47870189.36616094@netvigator.com...
Scott Richter wrote:
les_on_usenet <delete-unread@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 20:30:00 -0500, "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu>
wrote:
I am afraid the opposite is true, for I was an atheist most of my
life
and know very well what it's like. It was that pervasive atheist
negativity
and resulting cynicism, paranoia and despair, which led me to abandon
it.
That was your atheism and nothing that I recognise. By applying your
experience to everybody esle is a further sign of you self-centric
view of life
Without any prompting, Frank simply reaffirmed what I just said. He has
absolutely no recognition of his own personality disorder, despite being
so glaringly apparent to everyone else. He also externalizes his rage,
claiming, as he has done before, that it is atheists who made him that
way.
Frank is a textbook example of religiously influenced narcissistic
behavior, a disorder that churches strongly nurture as a way to maintain
control over their members. For whatever reason, this newsgroup seems to
attract these types by the boatload...
....and they all seem to have something else in common - thick skin.
LOL More ad hominem and that "pervasive atheist negativity and resulting
cynicism, paranoia and despair" which led me to abandon atheism altogether?
You never fail to prove my points, Bob!!!
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "Liz" |
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| Title: Re: YES! |
11 Jan 2008 06:15:51 AM |
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On 10 Jan 2008 23:44:02 -0600, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com>
wrote:
Scott Richter wrote:
les_on_usenet <delete-unread@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 20:30:00 -0500, "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu>
wrote:
I am afraid the opposite is true, for I was an atheist most of my life
and know very well what it's like. It was that pervasive atheist negativity
and resulting cynicism, paranoia and despair, which led me to abandon it.
That was your atheism and nothing that I recognise. By applying your
experience to everybody esle is a further sign of you self-centric
view of life
Without any prompting, Frank simply reaffirmed what I just said. He has
absolutely no recognition of his own personality disorder, despite being
so glaringly apparent to everyone else. He also externalizes his rage,
claiming, as he has done before, that it is atheists who made him that
way.
Frank is a textbook example of religiously influenced narcissistic
behavior, a disorder that churches strongly nurture as a way to maintain
control over their members. For whatever reason, this newsgroup seems to
attract these types by the boatload...
....and they all seem to have something else in common - thick skin.
I don't think it is so much not being affected by what is said to
them, but a failure to understand it.
Liz #658 BAAWA
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| User: "Budd Cochran" |
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| Title: Re: YES! |
11 Jan 2008 12:47:38 PM |
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"Liz" <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message
news:tdneo3p2p03iklrt2kj9t8oghpeu0qs6ci@4ax.com...
On 10 Jan 2008 23:44:02 -0600, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com>
wrote:
Scott Richter wrote:
les_on_usenet <delete-unread@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 20:30:00 -0500, "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu>
wrote:
I am afraid the opposite is true, for I was an atheist most of my
life
and know very well what it's like. It was that pervasive atheist
negativity
and resulting cynicism, paranoia and despair, which led me to abandon
it.
That was your atheism and nothing that I recognise. By applying your
experience to everybody esle is a further sign of you self-centric
view of life
Without any prompting, Frank simply reaffirmed what I just said. He has
absolutely no recognition of his own personality disorder, despite being
so glaringly apparent to everyone else. He also externalizes his rage,
claiming, as he has done before, that it is atheists who made him that
way.
Frank is a textbook example of religiously influenced narcissistic
behavior, a disorder that churches strongly nurture as a way to maintain
control over their members. For whatever reason, this newsgroup seems to
attract these types by the boatload...
....and they all seem to have something else in common - thick skin.
I don't think it is so much not being affected by what is said to
them, but a failure to understand it.
Liz #658 BAAWA
What's to understand?
Contrarily, look deeper into Christianity, before condemning it. Look at the
millions doing good, instead of the false believers doing bad.
Budd
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| User: "les_on_usenet" |
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| Title: Re: YES! |
11 Jan 2008 02:18:58 PM |
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On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 11:47:38 -0700, "Budd Cochran"
<mr.establishment440@bresnan.net> wrote:
"Liz" <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message
news:tdneo3p2p03iklrt2kj9t8oghpeu0qs6ci@4ax.com...
On 10 Jan 2008 23:44:02 -0600, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com>
wrote:
Scott Richter wrote:
les_on_usenet <delete-unread@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 20:30:00 -0500, "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu>
wrote:
I am afraid the opposite is true, for I was an atheist most of my
life
and know very well what it's like. It was that pervasive atheist
negativity
and resulting cynicism, paranoia and despair, which led me to abandon
it.
That was your atheism and nothing that I recognise. By applying your
experience to everybody esle is a further sign of you self-centric
view of life
Without any prompting, Frank simply reaffirmed what I just said. He has
absolutely no recognition of his own personality disorder, despite being
so glaringly apparent to everyone else. He also externalizes his rage,
claiming, as he has done before, that it is atheists who made him that
way.
Frank is a textbook example of religiously influenced narcissistic
behavior, a disorder that churches strongly nurture as a way to maintain
control over their members. For whatever reason, this newsgroup seems to
attract these types by the boatload...
....and they all seem to have something else in common - thick skin.
I don't think it is so much not being affected by what is said to
them, but a failure to understand it.
Liz #658 BAAWA
What's to understand?
I see what you mean Liz
Contrarily, look deeper into Christianity, before condemning it. Look at the
millions doing good, instead of the false believers doing bad.
You would do well to look to the majority non Christian world
to see that too.
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
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| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
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| Title: Re: YES! |
11 Jan 2008 01:13:35 PM |
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On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 11:47:38 -0700, "Budd Cochran"
<mr.establishment440@bresnan.net> wrote:
"Liz" <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message
news:tdneo3p2p03iklrt2kj9t8oghpeu0qs6ci@4ax.com...
On 10 Jan 2008 23:44:02 -0600, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com>
wrote:
Scott Richter wrote:
les_on_usenet <delete-unread@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 20:30:00 -0500, "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu>
wrote:
I am afraid the opposite is true, for I was an atheist most of my
life
and know very well what it's like. It was that pervasive atheist
negativity
and resulting cynicism, paranoia and despair, which led me to abandon
it.
That was your atheism and nothing that I recognise. By applying your
experience to everybody esle is a further sign of you self-centric
view of life
Without any prompting, Frank simply reaffirmed what I just said. He has
absolutely no recognition of his own personality disorder, despite being
so glaringly apparent to everyone else. He also externalizes his rage,
claiming, as he has done before, that it is atheists who made him that
way.
Frank is a textbook example of religiously influenced narcissistic
behavior, a disorder that churches strongly nurture as a way to maintain
control over their members. For whatever reason, this newsgroup seems to
attract these types by the boatload...
....and they all seem to have something else in common - thick skin.
I don't think it is so much not being affected by what is said to
them, but a failure to understand it.
Liz #658 BAAWA
What's to understand?
Your refusal to grasp that there is a real world beyond Christianity
in which there are hundreds if not thousands of different religions -
all believed by their followers with as much justification, sincerity
and certainty as you believe yours.
Where just like all these others, yours is only special to its
believers.
Where you refuse to let anybody be merely "somebody who isn't theist"
and stupidly invent positions for them they don't have based on
presumptions that are only logically valid inside Christianity.
Contrarily, look deeper into Christianity, before condemning it. Look at the
millions doing good, instead of the false believers doing bad.
Standard Christian dishonesty, by somebody who himself is doing bad.
Does that make you a false believer?
Budd
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| User: "Budd Cochran" |
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| Title: Re: YES! |
11 Jan 2008 02:38:49 PM |
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"Christopher A.Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:3mffo35j4aeg0au4cdhh6s528mndu06qsg@4ax.com...
On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 11:47:38 -0700, "Budd Cochran"
<mr.establishment440@bresnan.net> wrote:
"Liz" <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message
news:tdneo3p2p03iklrt2kj9t8oghpeu0qs6ci@4ax.com...
On 10 Jan 2008 23:44:02 -0600, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com>
wrote:
Scott Richter wrote:
les_on_usenet <delete-unread@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 20:30:00 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
<PF@christfirst.edu>
wrote:
I am afraid the opposite is true, for I was an atheist most of
my
life
and know very well what it's like. It was that pervasive atheist
negativity
and resulting cynicism, paranoia and despair, which led me to
abandon
it.
That was your atheism and nothing that I recognise. By applying your
experience to everybody esle is a further sign of you self-centric
view of life
Without any prompting, Frank simply reaffirmed what I just said. He
has
absolutely no recognition of his own personality disorder, despite
being
so glaringly apparent to everyone else. He also externalizes his rage,
claiming, as he has done before, that it is atheists who made him that
way.
Frank is a textbook example of religiously influenced narcissistic
behavior, a disorder that churches strongly nurture as a way to
maintain
control over their members. For whatever reason, this newsgroup seems
to
attract these types by the boatload...
....and they all seem to have something else in common - thick skin.
I don't think it is so much not being affected by what is said to
them, but a failure to understand it.
Liz #658 BAAWA
What's to understand?
Your refusal to grasp that there is a real world beyond Christianity
in which there are hundreds if not thousands of different religions -
all believed by their followers with as much justification, sincerity
and certainty as you believe yours.
And that makes them right? IN YOUR OPINION.
Not mine. Now, can you accept that?
Where just like all these others, yours is only special to its
believers.
As is theirs.
Where you refuse to let anybody be merely "somebody who isn't theist"
and stupidly invent positions for them they don't have based on
presumptions that are only logically valid inside Christianity.
And since you don't understand true Christianity, you have misconceptions
that you refuse to allow to be corrected. Where does that make you different
from me?
Contrarily, look deeper into Christianity, before condemning it. Look at
the
millions doing good, instead of the false believers doing bad.
Standard Christian dishonesty, by somebody who himself is doing bad.
Does that make you a false believer?
Is following the teachings of Buddha wrong in your eyes? Confucious? So why
is following the teachings of Jesus wrong?
Budd
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| User: "L. Raymond" |
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| Title: Re: YES! |
11 Jan 2008 03:55:09 PM |
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Budd Cochran wrote:
"Christopher A.Lee" wrote
Your refusal to grasp that there is a real world beyond Christianity
in which there are hundreds if not thousands of different religions -
all believed by their followers with as much justification, sincerity
and certainty as you believe yours.
And that makes them right? IN YOUR OPINION.
Not mine. Now, can you accept that?
He didn't say that. He said they all have the exact same amount of
evidence for the their gods as Christians do, i.e., none at all.
Where just like all these others, yours is only special to its
believers.
As is theirs.
That's exactly what he said. Do you think you are being deep by making
this distressingly ungrammatical comment?
Where you refuse to let anybody be merely "somebody who isn't theist"
and stupidly invent positions for them they don't have based on
presumptions that are only logically valid inside Christianity.
And since you don't understand true Christianity, you have misconceptions
that you refuse to allow to be corrected. Where does that make you different
from me?
There is no misconception on his part. You claim there is at least one
god. That is inherent in Christianity, yet there is no evidence for
this god. He's pointing out this lack of evidence, which your religion
shares with all the other religions that include gods.
Standard Christian dishonesty, by somebody who himself is doing bad.
Does that make you a false believer?
Is following the teachings of Buddha wrong in your eyes? Confucious? So why
is following the teachings of Jesus wrong?
Because most Christians don't follow the teachings of Jesus, they
attempt to force their god on *everyone* by including it in public,
secular events, adding it into laws, putting it on coins (depending on
the nation), causing countries to discriminate against atheists or those
who worship a different god etc.
--
L. Raymond
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| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
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| Title: Re: YES! |
11 Jan 2008 04:48:31 PM |
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On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:38:49 -0700, "Budd Cochran"
<mr.establishment440@bresnan.net> wrote:
"Christopher A.Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:3mffo35j4aeg0au4cdhh6s528mndu06qsg@4ax.com...
On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 11:47:38 -0700, "Budd Cochran"
<mr.establishment440@bresnan.net> wrote:
"Liz" <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message
news:tdneo3p2p03iklrt2kj9t8oghpeu0qs6ci@4ax.com...
On 10 Jan 2008 23:44:02 -0600, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com>
wrote:
Scott Richter wrote:
les_on_usenet <delete-unread@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 20:30:00 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
<PF@christfirst.edu>
wrote:
I am afraid the opposite is true, for I was an atheist most of
my
life
and know very well what it's like. It was that pervasive atheist
negativity
and resulting cynicism, paranoia and despair, which led me to
abandon
it.
That was your atheism and nothing that I recognise. By applying your
experience to everybody esle is a further sign of you self-centric
view of life
Without any prompting, Frank simply reaffirmed what I just said. He
has
absolutely no recognition of his own personality disorder, despite
being
so glaringly apparent to everyone else. He also externalizes his rage,
claiming, as he has done before, that it is atheists who made him that
way.
Frank is a textbook example of religiously influenced narcissistic
behavior, a disorder that churches strongly nurture as a way to
maintain
control over their members. For whatever reason, this newsgroup seems
to
attract these types by the boatload...
....and they all seem to have something else in common - thick skin.
I don't think it is so much not being affected by what is said to
them, but a failure to understand it.
Liz #658 BAAWA
What's to understand?
Your refusal to grasp that there is a real world beyond Christianity
in which there are hundreds if not thousands of different religions -
all believed by their followers with as much justification, sincerity
and certainty as you believe yours.
And that makes them right? IN YOUR OPINION.
Where did I say that, moron?
Not mine. Now, can you accept that?
Where just like all these others, yours is only special to its
believers.
As is theirs.
That's what I just said, moron.
Where you refuse to let anybody be merely "somebody who isn't theist"
and stupidly invent positions for them they don't have based on
presumptions that are only logically valid inside Christianity.
And since you don't understand true Christianity, you have misconceptions
that you refuse to allow to be corrected. Where does that make you different
from me?
There is no such thing as "true Christianity", moron. Each
denomination thinks theirs is. But that doesn't make ot so.
And why do you keep doing these personal lies?
Contrarily, look deeper into Christianity, before condemning it. Look at
the
millions doing good, instead of the false believers doing bad.
Standard Christian dishonesty, by somebody who himself is doing bad.
Does that make you a false believer?
Is following the teachings of Buddha wrong in your eyes? Confucious? So why
is following the teachings of Jesus wrong?
Idiot.
Budd
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| User: "Apostate" |
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| Title: Re: YES! |
11 Jan 2008 04:31:54 PM |
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On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:38:49 -0700, "Budd Cochran" <mr.establishment440@bresnan.net> wrote:
"Christopher A.Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:3mffo35j4aeg0au4cdhh6s528mndu06qsg@4ax.com...
On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 11:47:38 -0700, "Budd Cochran"
<mr.establishment440@bresnan.net> wrote:
"Liz" <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message
news:tdneo3p2p03iklrt2kj9t8oghpeu0qs6ci@4ax.com...
On 10 Jan 2008 23:44:02 -0600, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com>
wrote:
Scott Richter wrote:
les_on_usenet <delete-unread@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 20:30:00 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
<PF@christfirst.edu>
wrote:
I am afraid the opposite is true, for I was an atheist most of
my
life
and know very well what it's like. It was that pervasive atheist
negativity
and resulting cynicism, paranoia and despair, which led me to
abandon
it.
That was your atheism and nothing that I recognise. By applying your
experience to everybody esle is a further sign of you self-centric
view of life
Without any prompting, Frank simply reaffirmed what I just said. He
has
absolutely no recognition of his own personality disorder, despite
being
so glaringly apparent to everyone else. He also externalizes his rage,
claiming, as he has done before, that it is atheists who made him that
way.
Frank is a textbook example of religiously influenced narcissistic
behavior, a disorder that churches strongly nurture as a way to
maintain
control over their members. For whatever reason, this newsgroup seems
to
attract these types by the boatload...
....and they all seem to have something else in common - thick skin.
I don't think it is so much not being affected by what is said to
them, but a failure to understand it.
Liz #658 BAAWA
What's to understand?
Your refusal to grasp that there is a real world beyond Christianity
in which there are hundreds if not thousands of different religions -
all believed by their followers with as much justification, sincerity
and certainty as you believe yours.
And that makes them right? IN YOUR OPINION.
Not mine. Now, can you accept that?
Where just like all these others, yours is only special to its
believers.
As is theirs.
Where you refuse to let anybody be merely "somebody who isn't theist"
and stupidly invent positions for them they don't have based on
presumptions that are only logically valid inside Christianity.
And since you don't understand true Christianity, you have misconceptions
that you refuse to allow to be corrected. Where does that make you different
from me?
Contrarily, look deeper into Christianity, before condemning it. Look at
the
millions doing good, instead of the false believers doing bad.
Standard Christian dishonesty, by somebody who himself is doing bad.
Does that make you a false believer?
Is following the teachings of Buddha wrong in your eyes? Confucious? So why
is following the teachings of Jesus wrong?
Budd
I have a passing familiarity with the words attributed by the four gospel novelists to
the bible character called Jesus.
Nowhere that I recall did he require that you crosspost senseless arguments into an atheist
newsgroup. I do, however, recall a bit about knocking the dust off one's sandals and hitting
the bricks when not well received.
Need a brush?
--
Apostate a.a. #1931
..sig currently undergoing maintenance
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.
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| User: "Kelsey Bjarnason" |
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| Title: Re: YES! |
15 Jan 2008 05:06:00 PM |
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[snips]
On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 11:47:38 -0700, Budd Cochran wrote:
Contrarily, look deeper into Christianity, before condemning it.
We have... which is why we do. Perhaps you should try it sometime.
Here, I'll give you a start. Who's the big cheese in the religion? Ah,
yes, this God fellow. And what's he noted for doing?
Well, lots of things, according to the story. Creating things. Creating
people. Creating a set of rules we're supposed to live by.
Hmm. Hold on, there's this little bit, near the beginning... ah, yes, the
rigged game, where he put a tree in the garden, right where his newly
created people were. People who presumably _did_ have curiosity, but did
_not_ have an concept of consequences (no knowledge of good and evil,
remember?) And he told them not to eat of the tree.
People with no grasp of consequences - young kids are a good example -
have little reason *not* to poke into whatever interests them. The game
was rigged to guarantee the people would fail.
And fail they did. Ooh, now they know consequences... but God wasn't
happy to punish _them_, now was he? No, no, he punished _all_, including
their descendants. This makes as much sense as hanging you because 100
years ago a relative stole a horse. It's an act of cruel vindictiveness,
sheer sadism, devoid of any concept of justice, mercy, or even simple fair
play.
So what else did God do? Oh, yes, he got in a snit and wiped out
virtually the entire living population of a planet, an act of genocide
which makes the worst human atrocities look like sunday picnics by
comparison.
Ah, well, He loves us, right? Yes, indeed. He loves us so much he had to
condemn us all thanks to the actions of one, then wipe most of us out.
Oh, and let's not forget demanding that Abraham kill his kid - what better
way to show love than demand the death of your loved one's offspring?
Oh, wait... there is a better way, namely, send your *own* offspring down
to get killed. Yeah, that's the ticket. Nothing says "I love you" more
than killing your progeny. Try that with your wife sometime, tell her
"Honey, I love you so much I killed Junior." See how well that goes over.
Meanwhile, of course, he loves us so much he's condemned every last one of
us to eternal torment. Now let's be clear here; punishment has its uses.
It is a means of instruction: you did this, something bad happened, you
learn your lesson and go on.
But that's not the case here, is it? It's not punishment for instruction,
is it? No, it is - according to most, at least - eternal. Forever.
Punishment with no intent of teaching, with no hope of escape. This isn't
instructional, it doesn't give the sufferer the chance to say "I learned
my lesson, I won't do that anymore", it just goes on and on and on.
Hmm, what do you call something that condemns people to torture without
reason, without hope, without end, for no purpose other than to have them
tortured? Oh, right, that would be a sadist.
Of course, there is a way out of this, and that's to have the faith and
ask forgiveness. Hmm, wait, forgiveness for what? Oh, right, for being
exactly who you are, exactly who you were created to be. If you are true
to what you are, you *burn*, so you must beg forgiveness for the
unforgivable crime of simply being human, a sin so evil it rates eternal
torture.
And this, of course, is all done in the name of love, by a God who loves
us.
If a *human* acted as badly as the God of the bible did, we'd kill him,
outright, as a menace to all humankind, and we wouldn't mourn the loss one
bit... but this is God, so we're supposed to pretend that all the evils he
does and commands and requires are all actually ways of showing love and
showing us how he is worthy of our respect.
Sorry, we *have* looked into Christianity, which is *precisely* why we
reject it. It is a religion of unbounded evil, followed by people who,
historically at least, have been just as happy to engage in evil as their
deity was.
Our only solace in this is twofold. First, there's not a shred of a
reason to take any of the story seriously, up to and including the notion
that God actually exists; it is a horror story, like Alien or The Thing,
meant to scare the audience but not to be treated as real. Second, even
if we did have reason to take it seriously, we frankly have too much
self-respect to follow it.
Goddess of some Wiccan beliefs? Fine; show her to be real, we can be
cordial. Buddha? Same deal. Lots of gods from lots of religions, we
don't buy a one of them, but if they were shown to be real, at least
they're basically decent beings.
God of the Bible? No... if he were shown to be real, we'd have little
choice but to spit on him; he's simply not worthy of anything else.
We *do* condemn Christianity... because we *have* looked deeper. We're
simply glad there's no reason to take a bit of it seriously, apart from
the actions of its adherents... though that is, quite frankly, dangerous
enough.
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: YES! |
09 Jan 2008 03:52:01 AM |
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les_on_usenet wrote:
On Fri, 4 Jan 2008 23:09:56 -0500, "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu>
wrote:
"les_on_usenet" <delete-unread@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:nsmsn3t58bbqda2mnq8v3q4icmff14058g@4ax.com...
On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 15:42:55 GMT, Kenneth Doyle <nobody@notmail.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 06:24:54 -0500, Pastor Frank wrote:
"Kenneth Doyle" <nobody@notmail.com> wrote in message
news:Vhjfj.31363$CN4.30240@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 22:48:24 -0500, Pastor Frank wrote:
what you REALLY want to say is
***** you, you arrogant *****.
Thanks for proving my point so succinctly. For what your REALLY want
to say is that you are NOT an "arrogant prig" like just about everyone
else
in this world.
I was talking only to you.
That's what I thought.
No you're not!!! Or you would at least mention occasionally what, or
who you seek to live up to, as we do Jesus Christ and His saving grace.
Flaming all religious people, calling them "arrogant prigs" is atheist
dogma.
Dear Frank
I think if you carefully check my posts you will find I have never
called you an 'arrogant prig'. when attempting to assist people bady
in need, as you are, directly confronting them with their problems
in such a derogatory way is not helpful.
I regret to admit I need to apologise to you. I assure you I have
done my best to help you overcome your many problems but
as the above paragraph clearly shows I have failed to make
any proigress. The task is beyond me and I have cleared failed you.
I humbly apologise for my shortcomings but fear you may be beyond
even expert help.
What you clearly fail to understand is that as atheists we do
not believe gods as defined and claimed by others exist simply
on the grounds they have failed to justify to us their beliefs. It
naturally follows that if we do not regard these beliefs as
justified they are wrong to hold them. We are quite happy
for them to hold these beliefs if they wish, indeed it is their
right anf not our business. . However when they intrude these
beliefs into our newsgroup and castigate us for not sharing them we
feel it is our duty to explain to them why we think they are
wrong. If you wish to characterise that as
" Flaming all religious people, calling them "arrogant prigs" is
atheist dogma."
then I have to tell you that this doctrine of your definition
is wrong just like all your muddled beliefs
I have tried to help you overcome your tendancy to generalise
in this offensive way always assuming the worst by showing them
to you but sadly have failed. As I indicated above I have
never called you an arrogant prig nor for one moment do
I regard all Christians as arrogant prigs. The comment by
Kenneth was meant for YOU and YOU alone and was made
by just one atheist.
Accusing me and many other atheist of saying things like
that is grossly offensive to me and probably to many other
atheists too. I very much doubt if you have the moral
strength to apologise for this smear and withdraw the
remark.
I have yet to see the slightest sign of regret for
your many other remarks even though I have pointed
them out. Quite the reverse as you seem to enjoy
adding insult to injury
No doubt you will go into denial mode regarding the
above paragraph and scream cite.
Well here are some atheist doctrines of your definition
that do notthing but attempt, without the slightest
justification to denegrate and tear us down
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 14:12:06 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
<PF@christfirst.edu> wrote:
"That's because atheist doctrine
demands one look for and find only what's wrong and sad. There is no
option for atheists. !
This completely unjustified assertion was based in comments
about YOUR faults and NOBODY ELSES
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 14:19:52 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
<PF@christfirst.edu> wrote:
That's only because atheist doctrine demands you ONLY look for things
"stupid"
Same comment. That YOUR beliefs are found to be stupid does
not mean we find everything else to be stupid. Just to
give you one example: we think if VERY SENSIBLE not to
accept other peoples religious beliefs just on their say so.
On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 13:14:11 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
<PF@christfirst.edu> wrote:
"People want to see evidence of love and care in your ACTIONS!!! "
This screamed comment shows you arrogance by presuming
YOU are the PEOPLE and that we have to jusify ourselves to
you. We don't. You have no right to set yourself up as some
kind of judge to whom we must answer and be judged as you do
in all the above quotes.
On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 13:14:11 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
<PF@christfirst.edu> wrote:
That means you would sell out your loved ones if your health, let alone
your life were being threatened.
I very much doubt if you even see how grossy offensive and'
arrogant this remark is and I have yet to see any signs of
remorse by you for so insulting me.
Even my forgiveness brought no remorse jusr further arrogance
On Tue, 1 Jan 2008 21:01:51 -0500, "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu>
wrote:
To find things wrong ...exclusively, is atheist doctrine, Les. That is
why you cannot see, nor recognise "joy and happiness" in others.
To find things wrong with YOU (you tendancy to denegrate and
tear me and other down for example) does not mean we find EVERYTHING
wrong Frank. Just YOU
That we do not noy joy and happiness in YOU frank (quite the reverse
in fact) does not mean we do not find it in EVERYBODY.
Lets summarize all your attempts to denegrate and tear us down
so we can all see the big picture shall I
"That's because atheist doctrine
demands one look for and find only what's wrong and sad. There is no
option for atheists. !
----
That's only because atheist doctrine demands you ONLY look for things
"stupid"
----
That means you would sell out your loved ones if your health, let alone
your life were being threatened.
---
To find things wrong ...exclusively, is atheist doctrine, Les. That is
why you cannot see, nor recognise "joy and happiness" in others.
So you see Frank
To find things wrong ...exclusively, is YOUR doctrine, Frank
I have yet to see a comment from you that has EVER found
anything right
As I said above I have never called you an arrogant prig
I will now correct that oversight:
As the above quotes show you have presumed to set yourself
as a tin pot god to demand we account for our lives to you
and now pronounce judgement upon us without the slightest
justification for anything you say. You show not the slightest
remorse for some of your more offensive remarks and are
probably incapable of understanding how offensive you are
In short:
YOU are an arrogant prig
Not most Christians, not the overwhelming majority of
people many of whom I DO find to be happy. I recently
saw that joy and happiness (that you tell me I cannot
see) in my cousin when she showed me her first baby
and I shared that joy with her.
You insult me when you tell me I am incapable
ofd that. Any sign of remorse for your nasty insult?
It is in YOU and YOU ALONE I find only hatred as the many
quotes above clearly show.
And all because we do not share your beliefs.
A brilliant post Les [I only wish thay I had the patience and skill to have
written it.]
The chance of receiving a kind open and frank [that word again] repsonse
I think is highly unlikely - it will be more of the same [Groan].
I admire the fact you spent this much time on him,
Have a great New Year....... up in White Rose Country
Bob Young
Hong Kong
'The greater the man, the greater the courtesey
[Alfred Lord Tennyson 1809-92]
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: YES! |
03 Jan 2008 11:36:02 PM |
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Kenneth Doyle wrote:
On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 22:48:24 -0500, Pastor Frank wrote:
what you REALLY want to
say is
***** you, you arrogant *****.
Yes indeed , comes pretty close
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| User: "Scott Richter" |
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| Title: Re: YES! |
27 Dec 2007 03:21:52 PM |
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Pastor Frank <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote:
You forgot to evidence your assertion. But tell us: Are you
anti-fiction?
No, I'm anti-stupid. That's why religion and those who mindlessly push
it are so offensive.
Yea. Politics and commercial ads can be that way. But what can you do?
WTF? Politics and commercial ads? Are your self-defense mechanisms wound
so tight that you don't recognize yourself in this discussion?
Sheesh...
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: YES! |
26 Dec 2007 09:11:20 PM |
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Pastor Frank wrote:
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