Does God really exist?



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Bill"
Date: 02 Jan 2005 07:12:52 PM
Object: Does God really exist?
Do any real Gods exist and if so are they all good, all powerful, benevolent
and caring?
Millions of men, women and totally innocent children have been
indiscriminately killed and maimed by Hurricanes, Typhoons, Tsunamis, Tidal
Waves, Cyclones, Earthquakes,
Volcanic eruptions, Airplane crashes, Train wrecks and other natural
disasters.
Why did God permit people ( and innocent children ) of all, and no,
religious beliefs, and of all degrees of goodness and wickedness, to be
indiscriminately killed and injured? Why are not just the wicked punished?
If God is all-merciful why do perfectly innocent children die in the womb or
be born with serious handicaps like blindness, deafness, paralysis,
imbeciles,
joined at the head or body with their twin etc??
Why has God created hundreds of diseases and handicaps that afflict the
innocent along
with the evil?
Why does God put humans on earth with many afflictions, diseases, handicaps,
suffering etc. for a limited period of time and then let them go to a joyous
eternal
life in heaven? Why not skip the brutal part?
There is no objective evidence that people of any particular religious
belief, or no religious belief, live any healthier or longer lives.
There is no objective evidence that people of any particular religious
belief, or no religious belief, are wealthier or poorer.
There is no objective proven evidence of any dead person communicating with
friends, relatives or anyone else - only unsubstantiated claims and
opinions. Have your dead friends or relatives communicated with you? Dreams
are not objective evidence - there just dreams.
There is no objective proven evidence of God directly communicating with any
person - only unsubstantiated claims and opinions.
The Bible (old and new testaments), the Koran, Bhagavad-Gita and other man
created documents are not OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE. They are merely, unproven
and frequently contradictory, opinions created and expressed by errant men.
Over the centuries people have believed in and adored hundreds of different
Gods. Were any of them really God? If so, which one?
If any of these gods were a real God and creator of the universe and
everything in it, why doesn't he inform us clearly that he or it is the
"real" god and that all the others are fakes?
The Bible was not dictated by god to mortal scribes; it was
written and embellished by some 40 authors - claimed prophets, kings,
politicians
and clergymen in a variety of styles over a 2500 year period. Non of the
present books of the Bible are the original documents. The printing press
was not invented till 600 years ago. Prior to that time all copies of the
bible were hand copied by scribes; copied, interpreted and distorted as they
wished.
They were written in Hebrew, Greek (vernacular), Aramaic, Syriac, Coptic
and Latin. On stone, wood, clay, goatskin and papyrus.
It is an amalgam of history, tales, folklore, mythology and fiction. They
are so abstruse that almost any interpretation that one likes can be
claimed.
It is a strange mixture of diverse human documents, metaphors, allegories,
history and fables and irreconcilable notions. Inspired? The Bible is not
even intelligent. It is not even good craftsmanship, and is full of
absurdities and contradictions.
Why doesn't the supposed "real God" communicate directly with all of mankind
in a clear and easily understood manner?
If man, who was supposedly created by god, can efficiently and clearly
communicate with the almost the whole world via phone, radio and satellite
TV why can't god communicate in at least an effective manner? Why doesn't he
tell us clearly, directly and effectively what he expects of us and what
rewards we will receive if we obey his demands?
Why does God not let those that have died, and gone to a so-called heaven,
communicate with the living and authenticate this castle in the sky after
death?
Why has God created diseases and handicaps that afflict the innocent equally
with the evil?
Why does God put humans on earth with many afflictions, diseases, handicaps,
suffering etc. for a limited period of time and then let them go to a joyous
eternal
life in heaven? Why not skip the brutal part?
Why do God's worshippers and followers suffer with and die of the same
diseases
and afflictions as the non-believers?
If man can create Satellite TV, Radio and Telephones to communicate with the
whole world, why does God not communicate directly with his WHOLE flock?
Why permit billions to be given false beliefs and Gods by errant men??
Why does he use hundreds of errant humans to pass on his word in vague,
abstruse and contradictory manor? Why does he not at least tell us clearly
and
directly which, of all the thousands of preachers, are the ones that truly
represent him?
Why does God not permit the dead parents, relatives and friends to
accurately
communicate his word to the living? What is the purpose of preventing
communication
between the living and those in heaven?
Why do people believe in hundreds of different Gods and religious systems?
How do we know which if any is the right one?
The evidence is rather strong that no Gods created man but that man created
Gods.
--
Bill
.

User: "Jim07D5"

Title: Re: Does God really exist? 03 Jan 2005 12:54:58 AM
"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> said:

Do any real Gods exist and if so are they all good, all powerful, benevolent
and caring?

Come now. We have "Does God exist" and Is God real" and now "Does God
really exist." Can't all these questions be bundled??
Jim07D5
.

User: "CDumont"

Title: Re: Does God really exist? 09 Jan 2005 01:11:17 AM
"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:o_0Cd.1212795$Gx4.1035840@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

Do any real Gods exist and if so are they all good, all powerful,
benevolent
and caring?

I have answered your questions at least three times and here you are
asking them again, i have asked you a couple of questions and you have'nt
been able to answer them.
Since you know how scientificly all life on earth begun, please explain.
How did every plant, every animal, every insect, every fish, both fresh
water and salt water, as far as that goes where did the water come from??
I'm due for a good laugh so please explaine and don't forget your
evidence. this is for bill. God bless
.
User: "Christopher A. Lee"

Title: Re: Does God really exist? 09 Jan 2005 01:23:53 AM
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 07:11:17 GMT, "CDumont" <cdumont@telusplanet.net>
wrote:


"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:o_0Cd.1212795$Gx4.1035840@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

Do any real Gods exist and if so are they all good, all powerful,
benevolent
and caring?


I have answered your questions at least three times and here you are
asking them again, i have asked you a couple of questions and you have'nt
been able to answer them.

No, you haven't.

Since you know how scientificly all life on earth begun, please explain.
How did every plant, every animal, every insect, every fish, both fresh
water and salt water, as far as that goes where did the water come from??
I'm due for a good laugh so please explaine and don't forget your
evidence. this is for bill. God bless

*****.
.

User: "thomas p"

Title: Re: Does God really exist? 09 Jan 2005 06:14:31 AM
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 07:11:17 GMT, "CDumont" <cdumont@telusplanet.net>
wrote:


"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:o_0Cd.1212795$Gx4.1035840@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

Do any real Gods exist and if so are they all good, all powerful,
benevolent
and caring?


I have answered your questions at least three times and here you are
asking them again, i have asked you a couple of questions and you have'nt
been able to answer them.
Since you know how scientificly all life on earth begun, please explain.
How did every plant, every animal, every insect, every fish, both fresh
water and salt water, as far as that goes where did the water come from??
I'm due for a good laugh so please explaine and don't forget your
evidence. this is for bill. God bless

Let me see if I understand: If all possible questions about the
universe cannot be answered then that must mean that your god exists;
is that it? That is a rather stupid thing to say isn't it?
.
User: "stoney"

Title: Re: Does God really exist? 09 Jan 2005 01:37:25 PM
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 13:14:31 +0100, thomas p
<tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote:

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 07:11:17 GMT, "CDumont" <cdumont@telusplanet.net>
wrote:


"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:o_0Cd.1212795$Gx4.1035840@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

Do any real Gods exist and if so are they all good, all powerful,
benevolent
and caring?


I have answered your questions at least three times and here you are
asking them again, i have asked you a couple of questions and you have'nt
been able to answer them.
Since you know how scientificly all life on earth begun, please explain.
How did every plant, every animal, every insect, every fish, both fresh
water and salt water, as far as that goes where did the water come from??
I'm due for a good laugh so please explaine and don't forget your
evidence. this is for bill. God bless

Let me see if I understand: If all possible questions about the
universe cannot be answered then that must mean that your god exists;
is that it? That is a rather stupid thing to say isn't it?

In the extreme.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
User: "thomas p"

Title: Re: Does God really exist? 10 Jan 2005 12:32:21 AM
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 11:37:25 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 13:14:31 +0100, thomas p
<tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote:

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 07:11:17 GMT, "CDumont" <cdumont@telusplanet.net>
wrote:


"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:o_0Cd.1212795$Gx4.1035840@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

Do any real Gods exist and if so are they all good, all powerful,
benevolent
and caring?


I have answered your questions at least three times and here you are
asking them again, i have asked you a couple of questions and you have'nt
been able to answer them.
Since you know how scientificly all life on earth begun, please explain.
How did every plant, every animal, every insect, every fish, both fresh
water and salt water, as far as that goes where did the water come from??
I'm due for a good laugh so please explaine and don't forget your
evidence. this is for bill. God bless


Let me see if I understand: If all possible questions about the
universe cannot be answered then that must mean that your god exists;
is that it? That is a rather stupid thing to say isn't it?


In the extreme.

Sad aint it?
.
User: "stoney"

Title: Re: Does God really exist? 10 Jan 2005 04:26:37 PM
On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 07:32:21 +0100, thomas p
<tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote:

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 11:37:25 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 13:14:31 +0100, thomas p
<tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote:

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 07:11:17 GMT, "CDumont" <cdumont@telusplanet.net>
wrote:


"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:o_0Cd.1212795$Gx4.1035840@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

Do any real Gods exist and if so are they all good, all powerful,
benevolent
and caring?


I have answered your questions at least three times and here you are
asking them again, i have asked you a couple of questions and you have'nt
been able to answer them.
Since you know how scientificly all life on earth begun, please explain.
How did every plant, every animal, every insect, every fish, both fresh
water and salt water, as far as that goes where did the water come from??
I'm due for a good laugh so please explaine and don't forget your
evidence. this is for bill. God bless


Let me see if I understand: If all possible questions about the
universe cannot be answered then that must mean that your god exists;
is that it? That is a rather stupid thing to say isn't it?


In the extreme.


Sad aint it?

Very. Worse is the legions of Christian brain dead running what was
the US Government. The American Taliban control the nukes.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.



User: "bob young"

Title: Re: Does God really exist? 11 Jan 2005 05:48:34 AM
thomas p wrote:

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 07:11:17 GMT, "CDumont" <cdumont@telusplanet.net>
wrote:


"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:o_0Cd.1212795$Gx4.1035840@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

Do any real Gods exist and if so are they all good, all powerful,
benevolent
and caring?


I have answered your questions at least three times and here you are
asking them again, i have asked you a couple of questions and you have'nt
been able to answer them.
Since you know how scientificly all life on earth begun, please explain.
How did every plant, every animal, every insect, every fish, both fresh
water and salt water, as far as that goes where did the water come from??
I'm due for a good laugh so please explaine and don't forget your
evidence. this is for bill. God bless


Let me see if I understand: If all possible questions about the
universe cannot be answered then that must mean that your god exists;
is that it? That is a rather stupid thing to say isn't it?

well it's all they have to go on, plus a dose of imagination
.
User: "thomas p"

Title: Re: Does God really exist? 11 Jan 2005 02:33:23 PM
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 19:48:34 +0800, bob young
<alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote:



thomas p wrote:

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 07:11:17 GMT, "CDumont" <cdumont@telusplanet.net>
wrote:


"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:o_0Cd.1212795$Gx4.1035840@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

Do any real Gods exist and if so are they all good, all powerful,
benevolent
and caring?


I have answered your questions at least three times and here you are
asking them again, i have asked you a couple of questions and you have'nt
been able to answer them.
Since you know how scientificly all life on earth begun, please explain.
How did every plant, every animal, every insect, every fish, both fresh
water and salt water, as far as that goes where did the water come from??
I'm due for a good laugh so please explaine and don't forget your
evidence. this is for bill. God bless


Let me see if I understand: If all possible questions about the
universe cannot be answered then that must mean that your god exists;
is that it? That is a rather stupid thing to say isn't it?


well it's all they have to go on, plus a dose of imagination

Their biggest asset in an incredible tolerance for cognitive
dissonance. They are able to make arguments like the one above and
really believe that they have made a crushing point. It still amazes
me.
.
User: "bob young"

Title: Re: Does God really exist? 11 Jan 2005 10:23:46 PM
thomas p wrote:

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 19:48:34 +0800, bob young
<alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote:



thomas p wrote:

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 07:11:17 GMT, "CDumont" <cdumont@telusplanet.net>
wrote:


"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:o_0Cd.1212795$Gx4.1035840@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

Do any real Gods exist and if so are they all good, all powerful,
benevolent
and caring?


I have answered your questions at least three times and here you are
asking them again, i have asked you a couple of questions and you have'nt
been able to answer them.
Since you know how scientificly all life on earth begun, please explain.
How did every plant, every animal, every insect, every fish, both fresh
water and salt water, as far as that goes where did the water come from??
I'm due for a good laugh so please explaine and don't forget your
evidence. this is for bill. God bless


Let me see if I understand: If all possible questions about the
universe cannot be answered then that must mean that your god exists;
is that it? That is a rather stupid thing to say isn't it?


well it's all they have to go on, plus a dose of imagination


Their biggest asset in an incredible tolerance for cognitive
dissonance. They are able to make arguments like the one above and
really believe that they have made a crushing point. It still amazes
me.

....sometimes I feel guilty, they try so hard, but in the end this kind of
arguments are all they have.
.




User: "Les Hellawell"

Title: Re: Does God really exist? 09 Jan 2005 05:40:31 AM
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 07:11:17 GMT, "CDumont" <cdumont@telusplanet.net>
wrote:


"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:o_0Cd.1212795$Gx4.1035840@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

Do any real Gods exist and if so are they all good, all powerful,
benevolent
and caring?


I have answered your questions at least three times and here you are
asking them again, i have asked you a couple of questions and you have'nt
been able to answer them.
Since you know how scientificly all life on earth begun, please explain.
How did every plant, every animal, every insect, every fish, both fresh
water and salt water, as far as that goes where did the water come from??
I'm due for a good laugh so please explaine and don't forget your
evidence. this is for bill. God bless

Sorry but we do not know how all life on earth began but that does not
mean we should not try to find out.
--
Les Hellawell
greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
.


User: "CDumont"

Title: Re: Does God really exist? 03 Jan 2005 01:53:34 AM
"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:o_0Cd.1212795$Gx4.1035840@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

Do any real Gods exist and if so are they all good, all powerful,
benevolent
and caring?

Yes


Millions of men, women and totally innocent children have been
indiscriminately killed and maimed by Hurricanes, Typhoons, Tsunamis,
Tidal
Waves, Cyclones, Earthquakes,
Volcanic eruptions, Airplane crashes, Train wrecks and other natural
disasters.

Like you said, natural disasters.


Why did God permit people ( and innocent children ) of all, and no,
religious beliefs, and of all degrees of goodness and wickedness, to be
indiscriminately killed and injured? Why are not just the wicked punished?

Dieing is not a punishment, everybody dies, Jesus did not come to save
flesh.


If God is all-merciful why do perfectly innocent children die in the womb
or
be born with serious handicaps like blindness, deafness, paralysis,
imbeciles,
joined at the head or body with their twin etc??

Because of the filth that man creates and eats drink and smoke and
breaths.


Why has God created hundreds of diseases and handicaps that afflict the
innocent along
with the evil?

Read the above.


Why does God put humans on earth with many afflictions, diseases,
handicaps,
suffering etc. for a limited period of time and then let them go to a
joyous
eternal
life in heaven? Why not skip the brutal part?

Eternel life has to be earned, and eternel death has to be earned, you
have been warned, you are without excuse, so choose well.


There is no objective evidence that people of any particular religious
belief, or no religious belief, live any healthier or longer lives.

Christ did not promise us long life, as a matter of fact he promised we
would be hated, and a lot of hardship.


There is no objective evidence that people of any particular religious
belief, or no religious belief, are wealthier or poorer.

Yes there is, Did you ever read the promise God made to Abraham, and the
blessing that Abraham gave to Jacob [Israel]


There is no objective proven evidence of any dead person communicating
with
friends, relatives or anyone else - only unsubstantiated claims and
opinions. Have your dead friends or relatives communicated with you?
Dreams
are not objective evidence - there just dreams.

20 % of Americans have been visited by dead relative, fact.


There is no objective proven evidence of God directly communicating with
any
person - only unsubstantiated claims and opinions.

God communicates with his believers every time they read the Scriptures,
you should try it.


The Bible (old and new testaments), the Koran, Bhagavad-Gita and other man
created documents are not OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE. They are merely, unproven
and frequently contradictory, opinions created and expressed by errant
men.

Contradictions are only in the mind of Biblical eleterate people. Show me
one contradiction you found in the Scriptures, this is for Bill


Over the centuries people have believed in and adored hundreds of
different
Gods. Were any of them really God? If so, which one?

There is only one God, He goes by different names, The God of Abraham is
my God.


If any of these gods were a real God and creator of the universe and
everything in it, why doesn't he inform us clearly that he or it is the
"real" god and that all the others are fakes?

Since you can write garbage i assume you can read, the number 1 selling
book in the world is the Bible, study it, it's written clearly.


The Bible was not dictated by god to mortal scribes; it was
written and embellished by some 40 authors - claimed prophets, kings,
politicians
and clergymen in a variety of styles over a 2500 year period. Non of the
present books of the Bible are the original documents. The printing press
was not invented till 600 years ago. Prior to that time all copies of the
bible were hand copied by scribes; copied, interpreted and distorted as
they
wished.

This shows how much you know, Ezra and Nehemiah spent a hundred years
locking in the Scriptures in a book called the Masorah, you probably never
even heard of it, the Scriptures can not be changed without the people who
know the Masorah knowing about it, and i assure you the Scriptures have not
changed, there are errors in the Bible however.


They were written in Hebrew, Greek (vernacular), Aramaic, Syriac, Coptic
and Latin. On stone, wood, clay, goatskin and papyrus.

It is an amalgam of history, tales, folklore, mythology and fiction. They
are so abstruse that almost any interpretation that one likes can be
claimed.

Try it with me, you will be corrected.


It is a strange mixture of diverse human documents, metaphors, allegories,
history and fables and irreconcilable notions. Inspired? The Bible is not
even intelligent. It is not even good craftsmanship, and is full of
absurdities and contradictions.

Name me one, you seem to lack the inteligent to even read it, most five
year olds understand pretty well.


Why doesn't the supposed "real God" communicate directly with all of
mankind
in a clear and easily understood manner?

Why do you keep repeating yourself, did you forget what you wrote, the
Scriptures are clear to me,


If man, who was supposedly created by god, can efficiently and clearly
communicate with the almost the whole world via phone, radio and satellite
TV why can't god communicate in at least an effective manner? Why doesn't
he
tell us clearly, directly and effectively what he expects of us and what
rewards we will receive if we obey his demands?

For the third time, he has, it's called the Bible.


Why does God not let those that have died, and gone to a so-called heaven,
communicate with the living and authenticate this castle in the sky after
death?

I don't know of any castle in the sky, who made you believe that? However
for the second time 20% of Americans have been visited by dead relatives.


Why has God created diseases and handicaps that afflict the innocent
equally
with the evil?

Man created filth, not God.


Why does God put humans on earth with many afflictions, diseases,
handicaps,
suffering etc. for a limited period of time and then let them go to a
joyous
eternal
life in heaven? Why not skip the brutal part?

Is there an echo in your letter.


Why do God's worshippers and followers suffer with and die of the same
diseases
and afflictions as the non-believers?

If man can create Satellite TV, Radio and Telephones to communicate with
the
whole world, why does God not communicate directly with his WHOLE flock?
Why permit billions to be given false beliefs and Gods by errant men??

Why does he use hundreds of errant humans to pass on his word in vague,
abstruse and contradictory manor? Why does he not at least tell us clearly
and
directly which, of all the thousands of preachers, are the ones that truly
represent him?

Why does God not permit the dead parents, relatives and friends to
accurately
communicate his word to the living? What is the purpose of preventing
communication
between the living and those in heaven?

Why do people believe in hundreds of different Gods and religious systems?
How do we know which if any is the right one?

The evidence is rather strong that no Gods created man but that man
created
Gods.

What evidence is that?? Show me one piece of your evidence. Study and you
will know. God bless
.
User: "Solomon \You Dirty Mother\ Kozanski"

Title: Re: Does God really exist? 03 Jan 2005 10:34:40 AM
"IFuckMyCousin" <cdumont@telusplanet.net> wrote in message
news:2S6Cd.41936$Y72.20698@edtnps91...

Dieing is not a punishment, everybody dies, Jesus did not come to save
flesh.

jeebus did not come; learn to spell.

Because of the filth that man creates and eats drink and smoke and
breaths.

when you finish learning to spell, brush up on your grammar.

Eternel life has to be earned, and eternel death has to be earned, you
have been warned, you are without excuse, so choose well.
Christ did not promise us long life, as a matter of fact he promised we
would be hated, and a lot of hardship.

some fucking promise.

Yes there is, Did you ever read the promise God made to Abraham, and the
blessing that Abraham gave to Jacob [Israel]

abraham and jacob arent real. for that matter, neither is god. (psst.. "god"
isnt supposed to be capitalized. learn to spell!)

20 % of Americans have been visited by dead relative, fact.

there you go again with your bushist grammer.

God communicates with his believers every time they read the Scriptures,
you should try it.

"scriptures" isn't capitalized. it isnt even a word (unless you're a whacko
theist).

Contradictions are only in the mind of Biblical eleterate people. Show

me

one contradiction you found in the Scriptures, this is for Bill

eleterate? learn to spell!
"scriptures" is not capitalized! how many times need i say it?!

Over the centuries people have believed in and adored hundreds of
different
Gods. Were any of them really God? If so, which one?

There is only one God, He goes by different names, The God of Abraham

is

my God.

then why dont you pray to your god and ask him to teach you to spell?

Since you can write garbage i assume you can read, the number 1 selling
book in the world is the Bible, study it, it's written clearly.

selling? why would someone buy one when you can get them for free?! hell i
get them by the case and use them for firewood!

This shows how much you know, Ezra and Nehemiah spent a hundred years
locking in the Scriptures in a book called the Masorah, you probably never
even heard of it, the Scriptures can not be changed without the people who
know the Masorah knowing about it, and i assure you the Scriptures have

not

changed, there are errors in the Bible however.

blah blah blah blah, ezra, nehemiah, masorah, snow white, the seven dwarves,
alice and the rabbit; learn to spell.

Try it with me, you will be corrected.

try thinking.

Name me one, you seem to lack the inteligent to even read it, most five
year olds understand pretty well.

"you seem to lack the inteligent" <------hahaha!

Why do you keep repeating yourself, did you forget what you wrote, the
Scriptures are clear to me,

the "scriptures" are not clear to us. btw, "scriptures" is not capitalized,
and it is not a real word.

For the third time, he has, it's called the Bible.

actually, its called The Kindling.

I don't know of any castle in the sky, who made you believe that?

However
the revelation of the apocalypse

for the second time 20% of Americans have been visited by dead relatives.

that would be the same 20% that voted for shrubya, no?

Man created filth, not God.

ah, but god created man, therefore god created filth! so your sentence makes
no sense!
you must either:
1) admit you're wrong (what else are you wrong about?)
2) admit god did not create man (which means admitting you're wrong)

What evidence is that?? Show me one piece of your evidence. Study and

you

will know. God bless

we're not the ones asserting there are goblins in the forest. we're not the
ones asserting anything, other than the fact that we're still not convinced.
--
Brought to you, courtesy of Kozanski's Morgue & Grill, LLC
.

User: "bob young"

Title: Re: Does God really exist? 03 Jan 2005 04:12:44 AM
A set of very weak responses if I ever saw any!
CDumont wrote:

"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:o_0Cd.1212795$Gx4.1035840@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

Do any real Gods exist and if so are they all good, all powerful,
benevolent
and caring?

Yes


Millions of men, women and totally innocent children have been
indiscriminately killed and maimed by Hurricanes, Typhoons, Tsunamis,
Tidal
Waves, Cyclones, Earthquakes,
Volcanic eruptions, Airplane crashes, Train wrecks and other natural
disasters.

Like you said, natural disasters.


Why did God permit people ( and innocent children ) of all, and no,
religious beliefs, and of all degrees of goodness and wickedness, to be
indiscriminately killed and injured? Why are not just the wicked punished?

Dieing is not a punishment, everybody dies, Jesus did not come to save
flesh.


If God is all-merciful why do perfectly innocent children die in the womb
or
be born with serious handicaps like blindness, deafness, paralysis,
imbeciles,
joined at the head or body with their twin etc??

Because of the filth that man creates and eats drink and smoke and
breaths.


Why has God created hundreds of diseases and handicaps that afflict the
innocent along
with the evil?

Read the above.


Why does God put humans on earth with many afflictions, diseases,
handicaps,
suffering etc. for a limited period of time and then let them go to a
joyous
eternal
life in heaven? Why not skip the brutal part?

Eternel life has to be earned, and eternel death has to be earned, you
have been warned, you are without excuse, so choose well.


There is no objective evidence that people of any particular religious
belief, or no religious belief, live any healthier or longer lives.

Christ did not promise us long life, as a matter of fact he promised we
would be hated, and a lot of hardship.


There is no objective evidence that people of any particular religious
belief, or no religious belief, are wealthier or poorer.

Yes there is, Did you ever read the promise God made to Abraham, and the
blessing that Abraham gave to Jacob [Israel]


There is no objective proven evidence of any dead person communicating
with
friends, relatives or anyone else - only unsubstantiated claims and
opinions. Have your dead friends or relatives communicated with you?
Dreams
are not objective evidence - there just dreams.

20 % of Americans have been visited by dead relative, fact.


There is no objective proven evidence of God directly communicating with
any
person - only unsubstantiated claims and opinions.

God communicates with his believers every time they read the Scriptures,
you should try it.


The Bible (old and new testaments), the Koran, Bhagavad-Gita and other man
created documents are not OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE. They are merely, unproven
and frequently contradictory, opinions created and expressed by errant
men.

Contradictions are only in the mind of Biblical eleterate people. Show me
one contradiction you found in the Scriptures, this is for Bill


Over the centuries people have believed in and adored hundreds of
different
Gods. Were any of them really God? If so, which one?

There is only one God, He goes by different names, The God of Abraham is
my God.


If any of these gods were a real God and creator of the universe and
everything in it, why doesn't he inform us clearly that he or it is the
"real" god and that all the others are fakes?

Since you can write garbage i assume you can read, the number 1 selling
book in the world is the Bible, study it, it's written clearly.


The Bible was not dictated by god to mortal scribes; it was
written and embellished by some 40 authors - claimed prophets, kings,
politicians
and clergymen in a variety of styles over a 2500 year period. Non of the
present books of the Bible are the original documents. The printing press
was not invented till 600 years ago. Prior to that time all copies of the
bible were hand copied by scribes; copied, interpreted and distorted as
they
wished.

This shows how much you know, Ezra and Nehemiah spent a hundred years
locking in the Scriptures in a book called the Masorah, you probably never
even heard of it, the Scriptures can not be changed without the people who
know the Masorah knowing about it, and i assure you the Scriptures have not
changed, there are errors in the Bible however.


They were written in Hebrew, Greek (vernacular), Aramaic, Syriac, Coptic
and Latin. On stone, wood, clay, goatskin and papyrus.

It is an amalgam of history, tales, folklore, mythology and fiction. They
are so abstruse that almost any interpretation that one likes can be
claimed.

Try it with me, you will be corrected.


It is a strange mixture of diverse human documents, metaphors, allegories,
history and fables and irreconcilable notions. Inspired? The Bible is not
even intelligent. It is not even good craftsmanship, and is full of
absurdities and contradictions.

Name me one, you seem to lack the inteligent to even read it, most five
year olds understand pretty well.


Why doesn't the supposed "real God" communicate directly with all of
mankind
in a clear and easily understood manner?

Why do you keep repeating yourself, did you forget what you wrote, the
Scriptures are clear to me,


If man, who was supposedly created by god, can efficiently and clearly
communicate with the almost the whole world via phone, radio and satellite
TV why can't god communicate in at least an effective manner? Why doesn't
he
tell us clearly, directly and effectively what he expects of us and what
rewards we will receive if we obey his demands?

For the third time, he has, it's called the Bible.


Why does God not let those that have died, and gone to a so-called heaven,
communicate with the living and authenticate this castle in the sky after
death?

I don't know of any castle in the sky, who made you believe that? However
for the second time 20% of Americans have been visited by dead relatives.


Why has God created diseases and handicaps that afflict the innocent
equally
with the evil?

Man created filth, not God.


Why does God put humans on earth with many afflictions, diseases,
handicaps,
suffering etc. for a limited period of time and then let them go to a
joyous
eternal
life in heaven? Why not skip the brutal part?

Is there an echo in your letter.


Why do God's worshippers and followers suffer with and die of the same
diseases
and afflictions as the non-believers?

If man can create Satellite TV, Radio and Telephones to communicate with
the
whole world, why does God not communicate directly with his WHOLE flock?
Why permit billions to be given false beliefs and Gods by errant men??

Why does he use hundreds of errant humans to pass on his word in vague,
abstruse and contradictory manor? Why does he not at least tell us clearly
and
directly which, of all the thousands of preachers, are the ones that truly
represent him?

Why does God not permit the dead parents, relatives and friends to
accurately
communicate his word to the living? What is the purpose of preventing
communication
between the living and those in heaven?

Why do people believe in hundreds of different Gods and religious systems?
How do we know which if any is the right one?

The evidence is rather strong that no Gods created man but that man
created
Gods.

What evidence is that?? Show me one piece of your evidence. Study and you
will know. God bless

.

User: "Vic Sagerquist"

Title: Re: Does God really exist? 03 Jan 2005 07:13:56 PM
On 02 Jan 2005, CDumont dropped trou, farted, whirled, then shouted:


There is no objective evidence that people of any particular
religious belief, or no religious belief, are wealthier or poorer.

Yes there is, Did you ever read the promise God made to Abraham, and
the
blessing that Abraham gave to Jacob [Israel]

You do know what *objective* evidence is, don't you?
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
--------
Hebrews 11:1
Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not
seen.
.

User: "William"

Title: Re: Does God really exist? 03 Jan 2005 05:22:01 AM
On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 07:53:34 GMT, "CDumont" <cdumont@telusplanet.net>
wrote:

"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message

Do any real Gods exist and if so are they all good, all powerful,
benevolent and caring?


Yes

Millions of men, women and totally innocent children have been
indiscriminately killed and maimed by Hurricanes, Typhoons, Tsunamis,
Tidal Waves, Cyclones, Earthquakes, Volcanic eruptions,
Airplane crashes, Train wrecks and other natural disasters.


Like you said, natural disasters.

And this all powerful God is wringing his hands saying "If I could
have done something to prevent it I would have done".
But, according to the bible, he is the one who creates disasters so
why should he then try and prevent them?
William
.
User: "CDumont"

Title: Re: Does God really exist? 03 Jan 2005 11:00:41 AM
"William" <tielige@mail.clara.fl.com> wrote in message
news:41d90bf4.1232449@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk...

On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 07:53:34 GMT, "CDumont" <cdumont@telusplanet.net>
wrote:

"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message

Do any real Gods exist and if so are they all good, all powerful,
benevolent and caring?


Yes

Millions of men, women and totally innocent children have been
indiscriminately killed and maimed by Hurricanes, Typhoons, Tsunamis,
Tidal Waves, Cyclones, Earthquakes, Volcanic eruptions,
Airplane crashes, Train wrecks and other natural disasters.


Like you said, natural disasters.


And this all powerful God is wringing his hands saying "If I could
have done something to prevent it I would have done".
But, according to the bible, he is the one who creates disasters so
why should he then try and prevent them?

William

Tell me, where did you read that?? Most athiest write that the Scriptures
say this or that and it's not true. God bless
.
User: "sanguinevikings"

Title: Re: Does God really exist? 03 Jan 2005 11:29:28 AM
CDumont wrote:

"William" <tielige@mail.clara.fl.com> wrote in message
news:41d90bf4.1232449@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk...

On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 07:53:34 GMT, "CDumont" <cdumont@telusplanet.net>
wrote:


"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message

Do any real Gods exist and if so are they all good, all powerful,
benevolent and caring?


Yes


Millions of men, women and totally innocent children have been
indiscriminately killed and maimed by Hurricanes, Typhoons, Tsunamis,
Tidal Waves, Cyclones, Earthquakes, Volcanic eruptions,
Airplane crashes, Train wrecks and other natural disasters.


Like you said, natural disasters.


And this all powerful God is wringing his hands saying "If I could
have done something to prevent it I would have done".
But, according to the bible, he is the one who creates disasters so
why should he then try and prevent them?

William


Tell me, where did you read that?? Most athiest write that the Scriptures
say this or that and it's not true. God bless


So Noahs flood was a natural disaster beyond God's control, then? Which
version of the Bible is that in? The New Intelligent Design Bible, the
Goddiditandfuckedoff Bible or the Imaginary Bible?
.

User: "Al Klein"

Title: Re: Does God really exist? 03 Jan 2005 01:45:25 PM
On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 17:00:41 GMT, "CDumont" <cdumont@telusplanet.net>
said in alt.atheism:

Tell me, where did you read that?? Most athiest write that the Scriptures
say this or that and it's not true. God bless

Most atheists know your bible a lot better than you do.
.

User: "William"

Title: Re: Does God really exist? 03 Jan 2005 12:26:57 PM
On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 17:00:41 GMT, "CDumont" <cdumont@telusplanet.net>
wrote:

"William" <tielige@mail.clara.fl.com> wrote

"CDumont" <cdumont@telusplanet.net> wrote:

"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message

Do any real Gods exist and if so are they all good, all powerful,
benevolent and caring?


Yes

Millions of men, women and totally innocent children have been
indiscriminately killed and maimed by Hurricanes, Typhoons, Tsunamis,
Tidal Waves, Cyclones, Earthquakes, Volcanic eruptions,
Airplane crashes, Train wrecks and other natural disasters.


Like you said, natural disasters.


And this all powerful God is wringing his hands saying "If I could
have done something to prevent it I would have done".
But, according to the bible, he is the one who creates disasters so
why should he then try and prevent them?


Tell me, where did you read that?? Most athiest write that the Scriptures
say this or that and it's not true. God bless

Isaiah 45:7 (NIV)
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create
disaster; I, the LORD , do all these things.
The KJV says " I make peace, and create evil" which, of course is even
worse.
Most christians don't know what their scriptures say. Probably because
they let their ministers tell them what to read and therefore avoid
the controversial bits
William
.
User: "Solomon \You Dirty Mother\ Kozanski"

Title: Re: Does God really exist? 05 Jan 2005 08:38:22 AM
"William" <tielige@mail.clara.fl.com> wrote in message
news:41d96fdc.993496@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk...

On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 17:00:41 GMT, "CDumont" <cdumont@telusplanet.net>
wrote:
Isaiah 45:7 (NIV)
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create
disaster; I, the LORD , do all these things.

The KJV says " I make peace, and create evil" which, of course is even
worse.

who, besides evangelical protestant trailer scum, uses that mistranslated
QJV heap of *****? its long discredited, almost from it's inception.
either use a catholic [read: real christian] bible, or learn aramaic and
greek.

Most christians don't know what their scriptures say. Probably because
they let their ministers tell them what to read and therefore avoid
the controversial bits

William

My signature /*ALWAYS*/ goes last!
--
Brought to you, courtesy of Kozanski's Morgue & Grill, LLC
.

User: "CDumont"

Title: Re: Does God really exist? 04 Jan 2005 01:33:44 AM
"William" <tielige@mail.clara.fl.com> wrote in message
news:41d96fdc.993496@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk...

On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 17:00:41 GMT, "CDumont" <cdumont@telusplanet.net>
wrote:

"William" <tielige@mail.clara.fl.com> wrote

"CDumont" <cdumont@telusplanet.net> wrote:

"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message

Do any real Gods exist and if so are they all good, all powerful,
benevolent and caring?


Yes

Millions of men, women and totally innocent children have been
indiscriminately killed and maimed by Hurricanes, Typhoons, Tsunamis,
Tidal Waves, Cyclones, Earthquakes, Volcanic eruptions,
Airplane crashes, Train wrecks and other natural disasters.


Like you said, natural disasters.


And this all powerful God is wringing his hands saying "If I could
have done something to prevent it I would have done".
But, according to the bible, he is the one who creates disasters so
why should he then try and prevent them?


Tell me, where did you read that?? Most athiest write that the
Scriptures
say this or that and it's not true. God bless


Isaiah 45:7 (NIV)
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create
disaster; I, the LORD , do all these things.

The KJV says " I make peace, and create evil" which, of course is even
worse.

Most christians don't know what their scriptures say. Probably because
they let their ministers tell them what to read and therefore avoid
the controversial bits

William

It's nice to know you at least read the Bible, but if something don't
sound right you have to go to the Scriptures. In Isaiah 45 God is talking to
Cyrus is anoited, or elect, i will write verse 7 from the Scripture, keep in
mind the Bible is only a translation and is not always right.
I form the light and bring about darkness,i make peace and bring about
calamity as the inevitable consequence of sin, I the Lord do these.
The Scriptures are very interesting, and very deep, they could not have
been written by man without the help of God. I don't listen to ministers, I
study for myself since i'm responsible for me. God bless
.
User: "johnebravo836"

Title: Re: Does God really exist? 04 Jan 2005 03:25:14 PM
CDumont wrote:

"William" <tielige@mail.clara.fl.com> wrote in message
news:41d96fdc.993496@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk...

[snip]

Isaiah 45:7 (NIV)
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create
disaster; I, the LORD , do all these things.

The KJV says " I make peace, and create evil" which, of course is even
worse.

Most christians don't know what their scriptures say. Probably because
they let their ministers tell them what to read and therefore avoid
the controversial bits

William


It's nice to know you at least read the Bible, but if something don't
sound right you have to go to the Scriptures. In Isaiah 45 God is talking to
Cyrus is anoited, or elect, i will write verse 7 from the Scripture,

*You* will translate it? This is priceless. Please tell us about your
qualifications as a translator of ancient texts.

keep in
mind the Bible is only a translation and is not always right.

Whoa! What an admission! And here I was thinking that it was divinely
inspired and infallible . . . ;)

I form the light and bring about darkness,i make peace and bring about
calamity as the inevitable consequence of sin, I the Lord do these.

Boy, you're really giving this a rather different reading than what
appears in the King James Version, aren't you? What justifies
substituting "calamity as the inevitable consequence of sin" for "evil",
other than that it's more convenient for you?

The Scriptures are very interesting, and very deep, they could not have
been written by man without the help of God.

Huh? Why would anyone think that?

I don't listen to ministers, I
study for myself since i'm responsible for me. God bless

.

User: "Al Klein"

Title: Re: Does God really exist? 04 Jan 2005 02:46:41 PM
On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 07:33:44 GMT, "CDumont" <cdumont@telusplanet.net>
said in alt.atheism:

i will write verse 7 from the Scripture, keep in
mind the Bible is only a translation and is not always right.
I form the light and bring about darkness,i make peace and bring about
calamity

Talk about not being right. The word is 'evil'.

The Scriptures are very interesting, and very deep, they could not have
been written by man without the help of God.

Why not? They're wrong in many places, immoral, self-serving - many
of the traits of man.

I don't listen to ministers, I
study for myself since i'm responsible for me.

You're the exception to the rule - you should listen to people who at
least have some education.
--
"I see only with deep regret that God punishes so many of His children for their
numerous stupidities, for which only He Himself can be held responsible; in my opinion,
only His nonexistence could excuse Him."
-A. Einstein (Letter to Edgar Meyer, Jan. 2, 1915)
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
.

User: "thomas p"

Title: Re: Does God really exist? 04 Jan 2005 02:02:39 PM
On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 07:33:44 GMT, "CDumont" <cdumont@telusplanet.net>
wrote:


"William" <tielige@mail.clara.fl.com> wrote in message
news:41d96fdc.993496@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk...

On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 17:00:41 GMT, "CDumont" <cdumont@telusplanet.net>
wrote:

"William" <tielige@mail.clara.fl.com> wrote

"CDumont" <cdumont@telusplanet.net> wrote:

"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message

Do any real Gods exist and if so are they all good, all powerful,
benevolent and caring?


Yes

Millions of men, women and totally innocent children have been
indiscriminately killed and maimed by Hurricanes, Typhoons, Tsunamis,
Tidal Waves, Cyclones, Earthquakes, Volcanic eruptions,
Airplane crashes, Train wrecks and other natural disasters.


Like you said, natural disasters.


And this all powerful God is wringing his hands saying "If I could
have done something to prevent it I would have done".
But, according to the bible, he is the one who creates disasters so
why should he then try and prevent them?


Tell me, where did you read that?? Most athiest write that the
Scriptures
say this or that and it's not true. God bless


Isaiah 45:7 (NIV)
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create
disaster; I, the LORD , do all these things.

The KJV says " I make peace, and create evil" which, of course is even
worse.

Most christians don't know what their scriptures say. Probably because
they let their ministers tell them what to read and therefore avoid
the controversial bits

William

It's nice to know you at least read the Bible, but if something don't
sound right you have to go to the Scriptures. In Isaiah 45 God is talking to
Cyrus is anoited, or elect, i will write verse 7 from the Scripture, keep in
mind the Bible is only a translation and is not always right.
I form the light and bring about darkness,i make peace and bring about
calamity as the inevitable consequence of sin, I the Lord do these.
The Scriptures are very interesting, and very deep, they could not have
been written by man without the help of God. I don't listen to ministers, I
study for myself since i'm responsible for me. God bless

And you apparently think you have the authority to add words to the
Bible, as you have above.
.
User: "Solomon \You Dirty Mother\ Kozanski"

Title: Re: Does God really exist? 05 Jan 2005 08:36:01 AM
"thomas p" <tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote in message
news:pgslt05q318npk584piruamap4skkba72e@4ax.com...

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 07:33:44 GMT, "CDumont" <cdumont@telusplanet.net>
wrote:


"William" <tielige@mail.clara.fl.com> wrote in message
news:41d96fdc.993496@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk...

On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 17:00:41 GMT, "CDumont" <cdumont@telusplanet.net>
wrote:

"William" <tielige@mail.clara.fl.com> wrote

"CDumont" <cdumont@telusplanet.net> wrote:

"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message

Do any real Gods exist and if so are they all good, all powerful,
benevolent and caring?


Yes

Millions of men, women and totally innocent children have been
indiscriminately killed and maimed by Hurricanes, Typhoons,

Tsunamis,

Tidal Waves, Cyclones, Earthquakes, Volcanic eruptions,
Airplane crashes, Train wrecks and other natural disasters.


Like you said, natural disasters.


And this all powerful God is wringing his hands saying "If I could
have done something to prevent it I would have done".
But, according to the bible, he is the one who creates disasters so
why should he then try and prevent them?


Tell me, where did you read that?? Most athiest write that the
Scriptures
say this or that and it's not true. God bless


Isaiah 45:7 (NIV)
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create
disaster; I, the LORD , do all these things.

The KJV says " I make peace, and create evil" which, of course is even
worse.

Most christians don't know what their scriptures say. Probably because
they let their ministers tell them what to read and therefore avoid
the controversial bits

William

It's nice to know you at least read the Bible, but if something don't
sound right you have to go to the Scriptures. In Isaiah 45 God is talking

to

Cyrus is anoited, or elect, i will write verse 7 from the Scripture, keep

in

mind the Bible is only a translation and is not always right.
I form the light and bring about darkness,i make peace and bring about
calamity as the inevitable consequence of sin, I the Lord do these.
The Scriptures are very interesting, and very deep, they could not have
been written by man without the help of God. I don't listen to ministers,

I

study for myself since i'm responsible for me. God bless


And you apparently think you have the authority to add words to the
Bible, as you have above.

he may not, but i do; and nobody's gonna stop me!
"Genesis 1:1 - In the beginning, there wasn't *****, except for Kozanski and
his footlong penis..."
--
Brought to you, courtesy of Kozanski's Morgue & Grill, LLC
.


User: "William"

Title: Re: Does God really exist? 04 Jan 2005 05:36:27 AM
On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 07:33:44 GMT, "CDumont" <cdumont@telusplanet.net>
wrote:

"William" <tielige@mail.clara.fl.com> wrote

"CDumont" <cdumont@telusplanet.net>wrote:

Tell me, where did you read that?? Most athiest write that the
Scriptures say this or that and it's not true. God bless


Isaiah 45:7 (NIV)
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create
disaster; I, the LORD , do all these things.

The KJV says " I make peace, and create evil" which, of course
is even worse.

Most christians don't know what their scriptures say. Probably
because they let their ministers tell them what to read and
therefore avoid the controversial bits


It's nice to know you at least read the Bible, but if something don't
sound right you have to go to the Scriptures. In Isaiah 45 God is talking to
Cyrus is anoited, or elect, i will write verse 7 from the Scripture, keep in
mind the Bible is only a translation and is not always right.

The main translations have been made by teams of scholars who know the
language far better than you or I do.

I form the light and bring about darkness,i make peace and bring about
calamity as the inevitable consequence of sin, I the Lord do these.

You've added the bit "as the inevitable consequence of sin". If God
HAS to do something as an inevitable consequence then he is not fully
in control. It means he has no choice as to whether he does something.
And when that something is to cause disasters and calamity then he
appears pretty weak. - or doesn't care. Or simply doesn't exist.
William
.
User: "CDumont"

Title: Re: Does God really exist? 04 Jan 2005 11:25:32 PM
"William" <tielige@mail.clara.fl.com> wrote in message
news:41da6138.1656357@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk...

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 07:33:44 GMT, "CDumont" <cdumont@telusplanet.net>
wrote:

"William" <tielige@mail.clara.fl.com> wrote

"CDumont" <cdumont@telusplanet.net>wrote:

Tell me, where did you read that?? Most athiest write that the
Scriptures say this or that and it's not true. God bless


Isaiah 45:7 (NIV)
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create
disaster; I, the LORD , do all these things.

The KJV says " I make peace, and create evil" which, of course
is even worse.

Most christians don't know what their scriptures say. Probably
because they let their ministers tell them what to read and
therefore avoid the controversial bits


It's nice to know you at least read the Bible, but if something don't
sound right you have to go to the Scriptures. In Isaiah 45 God is talking
to
Cyrus is anoited, or elect, i will write verse 7 from the Scripture, keep
in
mind the Bible is only a translation and is not always right.


The main translations have been made by teams of scholars who know the
language far better than you or I do.

I form the light and bring about darkness,i make peace and bring about
calamity as the inevitable consequence of sin, I the Lord do these.


You've added the bit "as the inevitable consequence of sin". If God
HAS to do something as an inevitable consequence then he is not fully
in control. It means he has no choice as to whether he does something.
And when that something is to cause disasters and calamity then he
appears pretty weak. - or doesn't care. Or simply doesn't exist.

William

If the translators were scholers we would not find mistakes and
contrdictions, If you would read the 1611 King James you would read in the
index written by the translators a warning that there will be mistakes.
The words you claim that i added came from the Massorah, don't take my
word for it get yourself a Companion Bible, it will help your studies.
If you break the law and get caught in this world you pay, If you Break
God's law you will get caught and you will pay if you don't repent, thats
inevitable, and you are free to make the choice, ignorance of Gods law is
forgiveable, but when you hear it and ignore it, thats very dangerous. God
bless
.
User: "thomas p"

Title: Re: Does God really exist? 05 Jan 2005 09:17:01 AM
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 05:25:32 GMT, "CDumont" <cdumont@telusplanet.net>
wrote:


"William" <tielige@mail.clara.fl.com> wrote in message
news:41da6138.1656357@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk...

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 07:33:44 GMT, "CDumont" <cdumont@telusplanet.net>
wrote:

"William" <tielige@mail.clara.fl.com> wrote

"CDumont" <cdumont@telusplanet.net>wrote:

Tell me, where did you read that?? Most athiest write that the
Scriptures say this or that and it's not true. God bless


Isaiah 45:7 (NIV)
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create
disaster; I, the LORD , do all these things.

The KJV says " I make peace, and create evil" which, of course
is even worse.

Most christians don't know what their scriptures say. Probably
because they let their ministers tell them what to read and
therefore avoid the controversial bits


It's nice to know you at least read the Bible, but if something don't
sound right you have to go to the Scriptures. In Isaiah 45 God is talking
to
Cyrus is anoited, or elect, i will write verse 7 from the Scripture, keep
in
mind the Bible is only a translation and is not always right.


The main translations have been made by teams of scholars who know the
language far better than you or I do.

I form the light and bring about darkness,i make peace and bring about
calamity as the inevitable consequence of sin, I the Lord do these.


You've added the bit "as the inevitable consequence of sin". If God
HAS to do something as an inevitable consequence then he is not fully
in control. It means he has no choice as to whether he does something.
And when that something is to cause disasters and calamity then he
appears pretty weak. - or doesn't care. Or simply doesn't exist.

William

If the translators were scholers we would not find mistakes and
contrdictions, If you would read the 1611 King James you would read in the
index written by the translators a warning that there will be mistakes.
The words you claim that i added came from the Massorah,

And the Masorah is not the Bible but commentaries on the Bible. The
words you added are not part of the Bible.
don't take my

word for it get yourself a Companion Bible, it will help your studies.
If you break the law and get caught in this world you pay, If you Break
God's law you will get caught and you will pay if you don't repent, thats
inevitable, and you are free to make the choice, ignorance of Gods law is
forgiveable, but when you hear it and ignore it, thats very dangerous. God
bless

There is no objective reason to believe that the Bible is the word of
any god. That is a very good reason not to believe that it is.
.

User: "William"

Title: Re: Does God really exist? 05 Jan 2005 03:13:31 PM
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 05:25:32 GMT, "CDumont" <cdumont@telusplanet.net>
wrote:

"William" <tielige@mail.clara.fl.com> wrote

"CDumont" <cdumont@telusplanet.net>wrote:

I form the light and bring about darkness,i make peace and bring about
calamity as the inevitable consequence of sin, I the Lord do these.


You've added the bit "as the inevitable consequence of sin". If God
HAS to do something as an inevitable consequence then he is not fully
in control. It means he has no choice as to whether he does something.
And when that something is to cause disasters and calamity then he
appears pretty weak. - or doesn't care. Or simply doesn't exist.


If the translators were scholers we would not find mistakes and
contrdictions,

That's no excuse for saying that your or I could do better.

If you would read the 1611 King James you would read in the
index written by the translators a warning that there will be mistakes.

That's because they were scholars and know where the ambiguities are
and how to find the best resolution. Neither you nor I could hope to
do that.

The words you claim that i added came from the Massorah, don't take my
word for it get yourself a Companion Bible, it will help your studies.

I thought Christians went by the canon of the bible - not some
non-canonical commentary that didn't appear until the 7th century.
Particularly when it changes the whole sense of the passage.
But, maybe, like so many other passages, Christians are embarrassed by
what their scriptures say and will do anything to wriggle out of it.

If you break the law and get caught in this world you pay, If you Break
God's law you will get caught and you will pay if you don't repent, thats
inevitable, and you are free to make the choice, ignorance of Gods law is
forgiveable, but when you hear it and ignore it, thats very dangerous.

Please explain how creating a disaster (eg, the current one in Asia)
that slaughters tens of thousands of innocent children is "payment"
for anything. Be careful, you may be bordering on the obscene.
William
.









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