Does religion do more harm than good?



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "BLUERHYMER"
Date: 21 Jan 2005 07:34:19 AM
Object: Does religion do more harm than good?
Does religion do more harm than good?

Yes
53%

No
47%
Would the World Be Safer Without Religion?
Faith makes people want to kill each other--but it's the best thing we've got.
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/103/story_10357_1.html
Let us prey
---------------------

.

User: "Edgar A Pearlstein"

Title: Re: Does religion do more harm than good? 21 Jan 2005 08:30:35 AM
RELIGION: GOOD OR EVIL?
Edgar Pearlstein
Is religion a force for good or for evil? There is evidence both ways,
and I don't know how to balance the pluses and minuses.
Certainly religion provides comfort to many people, and perhaps gets some
to behave more ethically than they might otherwise. Religions have
inspired many great works of art, architecture, and music. They have
sponsored charitable, medical, and educational institutions.
On the other hand, religion is divisive and provides impetus for
discrimination, cruelty, family breakup, and persecution toward those of
different religion. Religion is a medium for some people's hypocrisy. Even
murder and child neglect are sometimes ordered by the god.
I am reminded of a quote from Steven Weinberg (Nobel laureate in physics):
"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can
do evil-- but for good people to do evil -- that takes religion."
People fight and die over religious holy places, some of which are claimed
by more than one religion, as in Jerusalem and India.
In some cases religion makes people miserable through arbitrary rules,
such as those about divorce, birth control, shunning, and limitations on
medical care.
There are also some large-scale horrors to which religion contributed:
wars, pogroms, crusades, jihads, persecutions, inquisitions, witch hunts.
We have seen these things in old history and some continue today.
Here are just a few of the many examples we have had in very recent times:
In the countries of former Yugoslavia, there were Catholic Croats,
Orthodox Christian Serbs, and Muslims all at each other. In Lebanon, it
was Christian Arabs (supported by Israel) versus Muslim Arabs in a
terrible civil war. In India, it is Sikhs and Hindus fighting over a holy
place.
Almost every modern religion has at times been the perpetrator and at
other times the victim of such evils.
Religion has served as justification, if not the real reason, for slavery,
colonialism, and even cruelty to animals.
On another level, it can be argued that religions tend to discourage
people from thinking independently and clearly. For religions insist on
the Truth of ancient stories and superstitions regardless of any evidence
or reasoning that appeared since their origin. The religious mindset of
smug rectitude and superiority gets in the way of a mindset toward justice
and reason.
"The simple faith of a child", sometimes glorified by religious people,
can be charming in a young child, but is disgraceful in an intelligent
adult.
There are many "what if" questions one can pose (but not answer). Here
are a few:
What would the world be like now if there had never been the Crusades,
or the Spanish Inquisition?
How different would the United States be today if there had never been
religious persecutions in other countries, which sent so many of our
ancestors here?
What would the UK be like if Henry VIII hadn't broken so bitterly with
the Catholic Church?
What would India-Pakistan be like if there had been no religion-based
partition?
How would the world be different if there had not been the religious
motivations of people like Mother Theresa, Martin Luther King, and
Albert Schweitzer?
Where would scholarship be now if churches hadn't founded such great
universities as Harvard and Oxford?
Would we have the music of Johann Sebastian Bach if he hadn't been
employed by a church?
Most of this article concerned the past, which, of course, we are
powerless to change. A more important question is: Will religion be a
force for good or evil in the future?
.
User: "Ike"

Title: Re: Does religion do more harm than good? 21 Jan 2005 07:11:33 PM
"Edgar A Pearlstein" <epearlst@unlserve.unl.edu> wrote in message
news:csr3mb$rum$1@unlnews.unl.edu...

RELIGION: GOOD OR EVIL?
Edgar Pearlstein

Is religion a force for good or for evil? There is evidence both ways,
and I don't know how to balance the pluses and minuses.

Certainly religion provides comfort to many people, and perhaps gets some
to behave more ethically than they might otherwise. Religions have
inspired many great works of art, architecture, and music. They have
sponsored charitable, medical, and educational institutions.

On the other hand, religion is divisive and provides impetus for
discrimination, cruelty, family breakup, and persecution toward those of
different religion. Religion is a medium for some people's hypocrisy. Even
murder and child neglect are sometimes ordered by the god.

These generalizations provide little room for analysis.
--
The argument that everything had a Creator because it's too complicated, is
about as reasonable as saying that it couldn't have been created since it's
too complicated.
It's about like saying that a super flea created a dog. Then
the good fleas go to a great dog in the sky, while the bad unbelieving fleas
are scratched off into a super rug to be forever hungry. If you think dogs
weren't created by a Great Flea then you are an afleaist.
.

User: "pensul"

Title: Re: Does religion do more harm than good? 21 Jan 2005 03:21:40 PM

.... Religion is a medium for some people's hypocrisy. Even
murder and child neglect are sometimes ordered by the god.

However, it is preferable for some people to be hypocrites than that which
leads to the discomfort of the mayority, and their reverting to unethical
behaviour. For example, if Emperor Constantine had not embraced Christianity,
the dissolution of the Empire might not have occurred as amicably, and humanity
would have reverted to the stone age.


I am reminded of a quote from Steven Weinberg (Nobel laureate in physics):
"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can
do evil-- but for good people to do evil -- that takes religion."

Therefore, the fundamental premise of this assertion, that with or without
religion good people can behave well, is incorrect.


People fight and die over religious holy places, some of which are claimed
by more than one religion, as in Jerusalem and India.

It is politicians, who speak in the name of materialism and atheism, who
incite the ignorant multitutes to war, and use religion as a disguise.
No religion, in its origin, has advocated civil strife.


In some cases religion makes people miserable through arbitrary rules,
such as those about divorce, birth control, shunning, and limitations on
medical care.

Religious teachings were remedies for the ills of the age in which they
appeared, but such remedies are counter productive in subsequent ages.


There are also some large-scale horrors to which religion contributed:
wars, pogroms, crusades, jihads, persecutions, inquisitions, witch hunts.
We have seen these things in old history and some continue today.

Here are just a few of the many examples we have had in very recent times:
In the countries of former Yugoslavia, there were Catholic Croats,
Orthodox Christian Serbs, and Muslims all at each other. In Lebanon, it
was Christian Arabs (supported by Israel) versus Muslim Arabs in a
terrible civil war. In India, it is Sikhs and Hindus fighting over a holy
place.

Almost every modern religion has at times been the perpetrator and at
other times the victim of such evils.

Religion, as the term is commonly understood, is not suited to the
requirements of this age. The good reputation of religion throughout
history is what encourages the ignorant and gullible to believe the lies and
deceits of politicians, many of whom believe themselves to be the founders
of modern religions, and in any case are selfishly motivated to seek power.


Religion has served as justification, if not the real reason, for slavery,
colonialism, and even cruelty to animals.

There is no justification or real reason for slavery, colonialism and even
cruelty to animals. It is politicians who have created arbitrary divisions
among humanity, and who stand to gain by their own continued ignorance.


On another level, it can be argued that religions tend to discourage
people from thinking independently and clearly. For religions insist on
the Truth of ancient stories and superstitions regardless of any evidence
or reasoning that appeared since their origin. The religious mindset of
smug rectitude and superiority gets in the way of a mindset toward justice
and reason.

The Founders of religion have not imposed smug rectitude and superiority on
their followers, on the contrary, all the religious books testify to their
sincerity of purpose and moral rectitude. It is with the spread of science
in the last couple of centuries, that the true contents of the Holy Books is
becoming known, exposing those who have broken the Covenant of God.
--
"The world of existence is an emanation of the merciful attribute of God."
Abdul-Baha
http://www.costarricense.cr/pagina/ernobe
.
User: "Brian E. Clark"

Title: Re: Does religion do more harm than good? 22 Jan 2005 06:01:46 PM
In article <35da33F4k469cU1@individual.net>, pensul said...

It is politicians, who speak in the name of materialism and atheism,

Joshua was an atheist?
Mohammed spoke in the name of materialism and atheism?
Pope Urban was an a-religious opportunist?
-----------
Brian E. Clark
.

User: "Al Klein"

Title: Re: Does religion do more harm than good? 21 Jan 2005 11:03:43 PM
On 21 Jan 2005 21:21:40 GMT, pensul <royspensul@yahoo.com> said in
alt.atheism:

.... Religion is a medium for some people's hypocrisy. Even
murder and child neglect are sometimes ordered by the god.

However, it is preferable for some people to be hypocrites than that which
leads to the discomfort of the mayority, and their reverting to unethical
behaviour. For example, if Emperor Constantine had not embraced Christianity,
the dissolution of the Empire might not have occurred as amicably

It wasn't amicable.

and humanity would have reverted to the stone age.

Simple technology doesn't get lost for very long.

People fight and die over religious holy places, some of which are claimed
by more than one religion, as in Jerusalem and India.

It is politicians, who speak in the name of materialism and atheism, who
incite the ignorant multitutes to war, and use religion as a disguise.

It's not the politicians who cause the multitudes to be religious
fundamentalists, it's the religious leaders.

No religion, in its origin, has advocated civil strife.

No religion, much after its origin, has held true to its originating
principles.

In some cases religion makes people miserable through arbitrary rules,
such as those about divorce, birth control, shunning, and limitations on
medical care.

Religious teachings were remedies for the ills of the age in which they
appeared, but such remedies are counter productive in subsequent ages.

Making religion, which can't change with the changing times, worse
than useless once it outlives its origins.

Almost every modern religion has at times been the perpetrator and at
other times the victim of such evils.

Religion, as the term is commonly understood, is not suited to the
requirements of this age. The good reputation of religion throughout
history

Doesn't exist, except for the winners.

Religion has served as justification, if not the real reason, for slavery,
colonialism, and even cruelty to animals.

There is no justification or real reason for slavery, colonialism and even
cruelty to animals. It is politicians who have created arbitrary divisions
among humanity, and who stand to gain by their own continued ignorance.

To the contrary, Christianity does that quite well without
politicians. Slavery wasn't invented by politicians.

The Founders of religion have not imposed smug rectitude and superiority on
their followers

Read Saul of Tarsus.
--
"The study of geology is ok-But not when it contradicts what is laid
out in the Bible that the earth is more than 10,000 years old."
- Doug Lee, Creationist
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
.

User: "stoney"

Title: Re: Does religion do more harm than good? 24 Jan 2005 10:03:21 AM
On 21 Jan 2005 21:21:40 GMT, pensul <royspensul@yahoo.com> wrote:

.... Religion is a medium for some people's hypocrisy. Even
murder and child neglect are sometimes ordered by the god.


However, it is preferable for some people to be hypocrites than that which
leads to the discomfort of the mayority, and their reverting to unethical
behaviour. For example, if Emperor Constantine had not embraced Christianity,
the dissolution of the Empire might not have occurred as amicably, and humanity
would have reverted to the stone age.



I am reminded of a quote from Steven Weinberg (Nobel laureate in physics):
"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can
do evil-- but for good people to do evil -- that takes religion."


Therefore, the fundamental premise of this assertion, that with or without
religion good people can behave well, is incorrect.

People fight and die over religious holy places, some of which are claimed
by more than one religion, as in Jerusalem and India.


It is politicians, who speak in the name of materialism and atheism, who
incite the ignorant multitutes to war, and use religion as a disguise.
No religion, in its origin, has advocated civil strife.

*****, brain dead moron. All atheism is is a lack of theism. It
is not a motivator.
[]
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.


User: "bob young"

Title: Re: Does religion do more harm than good? 21 Jan 2005 08:19:43 PM
Edgar A Pearlstein wrote:

RELIGION: GOOD OR EVIL?
Edgar Pearlstein

Is religion a force for good or for evil? There is evidence both ways,
and I don't know how to balance the pluses and minuses.

Certainly religion provides comfort to many people, and perhaps gets some
to behave more ethically than they might otherwise. Religions have
inspired many great works of art, architecture, and music. They have
sponsored charitable, medical, and educational institutions.

Yes it attracts many good people, at one time ran most of the schools,
provides comfort for bereived families, makes weddings a delight.
The worst side of religion are the fanatics who revel in the power and
influence they imagine it provides them over their contemporaries.
Religion is mythological mumbo jumbo from the past.
Those who can live comfortably with religion will simply adopt and use the
good parts from our past and forget the rest, living religion free lives
until someone dies or plans to get married. The Japanese are a good example;
but they do most things right don't they?
Bob
Humanist Brit
Hong kong



On the other hand, religion is divisive and provides impetus for
discrimination, cruelty, family breakup, and persecution toward those of
different religion. Religion is a medium for some people's hypocrisy. Even
murder and child neglect are sometimes ordered by the god.

I am reminded of a quote from Steven Weinberg (Nobel laureate in physics):
"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can
do evil-- but for good people to do evil -- that takes religion."

People fight and die over religious holy places, some of which are claimed
by more than one religion, as in Jerusalem and India.

In some cases religion makes people miserable through arbitrary rules,
such as those about divorce, birth control, shunning, and limitations on
medical care.

There are also some large-scale horrors to which religion contributed:
wars, pogroms, crusades, jihads, persecutions, inquisitions, witch hunts.
We have seen these things in old history and some continue today.

Here are just a few of the many examples we have had in very recent times:
In the countries of former Yugoslavia, there were Catholic Croats,
Orthodox Christian Serbs, and Muslims all at each other. In Lebanon, it
was Christian Arabs (supported by Israel) versus Muslim Arabs in a
terrible civil war. In India, it is Sikhs and Hindus fighting over a holy
place.

Almost every modern religion has at times been the perpetrator and at
other times the victim of such evils.

Religion has served as justification, if not the real reason, for slavery,
colonialism, and even cruelty to animals.

On another level, it can be argued that religions tend to discourage
people from thinking independently and clearly. For religions insist on
the Truth of ancient stories and superstitions regardless of any evidence
or reasoning that appeared since their origin. The religious mindset of
smug rectitude and superiority gets in the way of a mindset toward justice
and reason.

"The simple faith of a child", sometimes glorified by religious people,
can be charming in a young child, but is disgraceful in an intelligent
adult.

There are many "what if" questions one can pose (but not answer). Here
are a few:

What would the world be like now if there had never been the Crusades,
or the Spanish Inquisition?

How different would the United States be today if there had never been
religious persecutions in other countries, which sent so many of our
ancestors here?

What would the UK be like if Henry VIII hadn't broken so bitterly with
the Catholic Church?

What would India-Pakistan be like if there had been no religion-based
partition?

How would the world be different if there had not been the religious
motivations of people like Mother Theresa, Martin Luther King, and
Albert Schweitzer?

Where would scholarship be now if churches hadn't founded such great
universities as Harvard and Oxford?

Would we have the music of Johann Sebastian Bach if he hadn't been
employed by a church?

Most of this article concerned the past, which, of course, we are
powerless to change. A more important question is: Will religion be a
force for good or evil in the future?

.

User: "TCS"

Title: Re: Does religion do more harm than good? 21 Jan 2005 08:41:55 AM
On 21 Jan 2005 14:30:35 GMT, Edgar A Pearlstein <epearlst@unlserve.unl.edu> wrote:

RELIGION: GOOD OR EVIL?
Edgar Pearlstein
Is religion a force for good or for evil? There is evidence both ways,
and I don't know how to balance the pluses and minuses.
Certainly religion provides comfort to many people, and perhaps gets some
to behave more ethically than they might otherwise. Religions have
inspired many great works of art, architecture, and music. They have
sponsored charitable, medical, and educational institutions.
On the other hand, religion is divisive and provides impetus for
discrimination, cruelty, family breakup, and persecution toward those of
different religion. Religion is a medium for some people's hypocrisy. Even
murder and child neglect are sometimes ordered by the god.
I am reminded of a quote from Steven Weinberg (Nobel laureate in physics):
"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can
do evil-- but for good people to do evil -- that takes religion."
People fight and die over religious holy places, some of which are claimed
by more than one religion, as in Jerusalem and India.
In some cases religion makes people miserable through arbitrary rules,
such as those about divorce, birth control, shunning, and limitations on
medical care.
There are also some large-scale horrors to which religion contributed:
wars, pogroms, crusades, jihads, persecutions, inquisitions, witch hunts.
We have seen these things in old history and some continue today.
Here are just a few of the many examples we have had in very recent times:
In the countries of former Yugoslavia, there were Catholic Croats,
Orthodox Christian Serbs, and Muslims all at each other. In Lebanon, it
was Christian Arabs (supported by Israel) versus Muslim Arabs in a
terrible civil war. In India, it is Sikhs and Hindus fighting over a holy
place.
Almost every modern religion has at times been the perpetrator and at
other times the victim of such evils.
Religion has served as justification, if not the real reason, for slavery,
colonialism, and even cruelty to animals.
On another level, it can be argued that religions tend to discourage
people from thinking independently and clearly. For religions insist on
the Truth of ancient stories and superstitions regardless of any evidence
or reasoning that appeared since their origin. The religious mindset of
smug rectitude and superiority gets in the way of a mindset toward justice
and reason.
"The simple faith of a child", sometimes glorified by religious people,
can be charming in a young child, but is disgraceful in an intelligent
adult.
There are many "what if" questions one can pose (but not answer). Here
are a few:
What would the world be like now if there had never been the Crusades,
or the Spanish Inquisition?
How different would the United States be today if there had never been
religious persecutions in other countries, which sent so many of our
ancestors here?
What would the UK be like if Henry VIII hadn't broken so bitterly with
the Catholic Church?
What would India-Pakistan be like if there had been no religion-based
partition?
How would the world be different if there had not been the religious
motivations of people like Mother Theresa, Martin Luther King, and
Albert Schweitzer?
Where would scholarship be now if churches hadn't founded such great
universities as Harvard and Oxford?
Would we have the music of Johann Sebastian Bach if he hadn't been
employed by a church?
Most of this article concerned the past, which, of course, we are
powerless to change. A more important question is: Will religion be a
force for good or evil in the future?

Two words: christian music.
'nuf said.
.
User: "kathryn"

Title: Re: Does religion do more harm than good? 21 Jan 2005 12:29:58 PM
"TCS" <The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> wrote in message
news:slrncv255j.fmo.The-Central-Scrutinizer@linux.client.comcast.net...

On 21 Jan 2005 14:30:35 GMT, Edgar A Pearlstein
<epearlst@unlserve.unl.edu> wrote:

RELIGION: GOOD OR EVIL?
Edgar Pearlstein


Is religion a force for good or for evil? There is evidence both ways,
and I don't know how to balance the pluses and minuses.


Certainly religion provides comfort to many people, and perhaps gets some
to behave more ethically than they might otherwise. Religions have
inspired many great works of art, architecture, and music. They have
sponsored charitable, medical, and educational institutions.


On the other hand, religion is divisive and provides impetus for
discrimination, cruelty, family breakup, and persecution toward those of
different religion. Religion is a medium for some people's hypocrisy. Even
murder and child neglect are sometimes ordered by the god.


I am reminded of a quote from Steven Weinberg (Nobel laureate in physics):
"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can
do evil-- but for good people to do evil -- that takes religion."


People fight and die over religious holy places, some of which are claimed
by more than one religion, as in Jerusalem and India.


In some cases religion makes people miserable through arbitrary rules,
such as those about divorce, birth control, shunning, and limitations on
medical care.


There are also some large-scale horrors to which religion contributed:
wars, pogroms, crusades, jihads, persecutions, inquisitions, witch hunts.
We have seen these things in old history and some continue today.


Here are just a few of the many examples we have had in very recent times:
In the countries of former Yugoslavia, there were Catholic Croats,
Orthodox Christian Serbs, and Muslims all at each other. In Lebanon, it
was Christian Arabs (supported by Israel) versus Muslim Arabs in a
terrible civil war. In India, it is Sikhs and Hindus fighting over a holy
place.


Almost every modern religion has at times been the perpetrator and at
other times the victim of such evils.


Religion has served as justification, if not the real reason, for slavery,
colonialism, and even cruelty to animals.


On another level, it can be argued that religions tend to discourage
people from thinking independently and clearly. For religions insist on
the Truth of ancient stories and superstitions regardless of any evidence
or reasoning that appeared since their origin. The religious mindset of
smug rectitude and superiority gets in the way of a mindset toward justice
and reason.


"The simple faith of a child", sometimes glorified by religious people,
can be charming in a young child, but is disgraceful in an intelligent
adult.


There are many "what if" questions one can pose (but not answer). Here
are a few:


What would the world be like now if there had never been the Crusades,
or the Spanish Inquisition?


How different would the United States be today if there had never been
religious persecutions in other countries, which sent so many of our
ancestors here?


What would the UK be like if Henry VIII hadn't broken so bitterly with
the Catholic Church?


What would India-Pakistan be like if there had been no religion-based
partition?


How would the world be different if there had not been the religious
motivations of people like Mother Theresa, Martin Luther King, and
Albert Schweitzer?


Where would scholarship be now if churches hadn't founded such great
universities as Harvard and Oxford?


Would we have the music of Johann Sebastian Bach if he hadn't been
employed by a church?


Most of this article concerned the past, which, of course, we are
powerless to change. A more important question is: Will religion be a
force for good or evil in the future?


Two words: christian music.

'nuf said.

Amen!
.

User: "bob young"

Title: Re: Does religion do more harm than good? 21 Jan 2005 08:21:04 PM
TCS wrote:

On 21 Jan 2005 14:30:35 GMT, Edgar A Pearlstein <epearlst@unlserve.unl.edu> wrote:

RELIGION: GOOD OR EVIL?
Edgar Pearlstein


Is religion a force for good or for evil? There is evidence both ways,
and I don't know how to balance the pluses and minuses.


Certainly religion provides comfort to many people, and perhaps gets some
to behave more ethically than they might otherwise. Religions have
inspired many great works of art, architecture, and music. They have
sponsored charitable, medical, and educational institutions.


On the other hand, religion is divisive and provides impetus for
discrimination, cruelty, family breakup, and persecution toward those of
different religion. Religion is a medium for some people's hypocrisy. Even
murder and child neglect are sometimes ordered by the god.


I am reminded of a quote from Steven Weinberg (Nobel laureate in physics):
"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can
do evil-- but for good people to do evil -- that takes religion."


People fight and die over religious holy places, some of which are claimed
by more than one religion, as in Jerusalem and India.


In some cases religion makes people miserable through arbitrary rules,
such as those about divorce, birth control, shunning, and limitations on
medical care.


There are also some large-scale horrors to which religion contributed:
wars, pogroms, crusades, jihads, persecutions, inquisitions, witch hunts.
We have seen these things in old history and some continue today.


Here are just a few of the many examples we have had in very recent times:
In the countries of former Yugoslavia, there were Catholic Croats,
Orthodox Christian Serbs, and Muslims all at each other. In Lebanon, it
was Christian Arabs (supported by Israel) versus Muslim Arabs in a
terrible civil war. In India, it is Sikhs and Hindus fighting over a holy
place.


Almost every modern religion has at times been the perpetrator and at
other times the victim of such evils.


Religion has served as justification, if not the real reason, for slavery,
colonialism, and even cruelty to animals.


On another level, it can be argued that religions tend to discourage
people from thinking independently and clearly. For religions insist on
the Truth of ancient stories and superstitions regardless of any evidence
or reasoning that appeared since their origin. The religious mindset of
smug rectitude and superiority gets in the way of a mindset toward justice
and reason.


"The simple faith of a child", sometimes glorified by religious people,
can be charming in a young child, but is disgraceful in an intelligent
adult.


There are many "what if" questions one can pose (but not answer). Here
are a few:


What would the world be like now if there had never been the Crusades,
or the Spanish Inquisition?


How different would the United States be today if there had never been
religious persecutions in other countries, which sent so many of our
ancestors here?


What would the UK be like if Henry VIII hadn't broken so bitterly with
the Catholic Church?


What would India-Pakistan be like if there had been no religion-based
partition?


How would the world be different if there had not been the religious
motivations of people like Mother Theresa, Martin Luther King, and
Albert Schweitzer?


Where would scholarship be now if churches hadn't founded such great
universities as Harvard and Oxford?


Would we have the music of Johann Sebastian Bach if he hadn't been
employed by a church?


Most of this article concerned the past, which, of course, we are
powerless to change. A more important question is: Will religion be a
force for good or evil in the future?


Two words: christian music.

'nuf said.

I wannay say, ask, something, does he above music come under the good or evil banner?
.
User: "TCS"

Title: Re: Does religion do more harm than good? 21 Jan 2005 10:22:22 PM
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 10:21:04 +0800, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote:

TCS wrote:

On 21 Jan 2005 14:30:35 GMT, Edgar A Pearlstein <epearlst@unlserve.unl.edu> wrote:

RELIGION: GOOD OR EVIL?
Edgar Pearlstein


Is religion a force for good or for evil? There is evidence both ways,
and I don't know how to balance the pluses and minuses.


Certainly religion provides comfort to many people, and perhaps gets some
to behave more ethically than they might otherwise. Religions have
inspired many great works of art, architecture, and music. They have
sponsored charitable, medical, and educational institutions.


On the other hand, religion is divisive and provides impetus for
discrimination, cruelty, family breakup, and persecution toward those of
different religion. Religion is a medium for some people's hypocrisy. Even
murder and child neglect are sometimes ordered by the god.


I am reminded of a quote from Steven Weinberg (Nobel laureate in physics):
"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can
do evil-- but for good people to do evil -- that takes religion."


People fight and die over religious holy places, some of which are claimed
by more than one religion, as in Jerusalem and India.


In some cases religion makes people miserable through arbitrary rules,
such as those about divorce, birth control, shunning, and limitations on
medical care.


There are also some large-scale horrors to which religion contributed:
wars, pogroms, crusades, jihads, persecutions, inquisitions, witch hunts.
We have seen these things in old history and some continue today.


Here are just a few of the many examples we have had in very recent times:
In the countries of former Yugoslavia, there were Catholic Croats,
Orthodox Christian Serbs, and Muslims all at each other. In Lebanon, it
was Christian Arabs (supported by Israel) versus Muslim Arabs in a
terrible civil war. In India, it is Sikhs and Hindus fighting over a holy
place.


Almost every modern religion has at times been the perpetrator and at
other times the victim of such evils.


Religion has served as justification, if not the real reason, for slavery,
colonialism, and even cruelty to animals.


On another level, it can be argued that religions tend to discourage
people from thinking independently and clearly. For religions insist on
the Truth of ancient stories and superstitions regardless of any evidence
or reasoning that appeared since their origin. The religious mindset of
smug rectitude and superiority gets in the way of a mindset toward justice
and reason.


"The simple faith of a child", sometimes glorified by religious people,
can be charming in a young child, but is disgraceful in an intelligent
adult.


There are many "what if" questions one can pose (but not answer). Here
are a few:


What would the world be like now if there had never been the Crusades,
or the Spanish Inquisition?


How different would the United States be today if there had never been
religious persecutions in other countries, which sent so many of our
ancestors here?


What would the UK be like if Henry VIII hadn't broken so bitterly with
the Catholic Church?


What would India-Pakistan be like if there had been no religion-based
partition?


How would the world be different if there had not been the religious
motivations of people like Mother Theresa, Martin Luther King, and
Albert Schweitzer?


Where would scholarship be now if churches hadn't founded such great
universities as Harvard and Oxford?


Would we have the music of Johann Sebastian Bach if he hadn't been
employed by a church?


Most of this article concerned the past, which, of course, we are
powerless to change. A more important question is: Will religion be a
force for good or evil in the future?


Two words: christian music.

'nuf said.

I wannay say, ask, something, does he above music come under the good or evil
banner?

I take it you've never heard modern christian music.
.

User: "Tukla Ratte"

Title: Re: Does religion do more harm than good? 24 Jan 2005 12:24:18 PM
bob young wrote:


TCS wrote:

< snip >

Most of this article concerned the past, which, of course, we are
powerless to change. A more important question is: Will religion be a
force for good or evil in the future?


Two words: christian music.

'nuf said.



I wannay say, ask, something, does he above music come under the good or evil banner?

It's more evil than Pat Boone in a studded leather vest.
--
Tukla, Eater of Theists, Squeaker of Chew Toys
Official Mascot of Alt.Atheism, aa 1347
.
User: "stoney"

Title: Re: Does religion do more harm than good? 24 Jan 2005 07:34:34 PM
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 12:24:18 -0600, Tukla Ratte
<tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote:

bob young wrote:


TCS wrote:


< snip >

Most of this article concerned the past, which, of course, we are
powerless to change. A more important question is: Will religion be a
force for good or evil in the future?


Two words: christian music.

'nuf said.



I wannay say, ask, something, does he above music come under the good or evil banner?


It's more evil than Pat Boone in a studded leather vest.

Didn't you mean studded leather B&D/S&M gear?
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
User: "Tukla Ratte"

Title: Re: Does religion do more harm than good? 25 Jan 2005 09:58:58 AM
stoney wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 12:24:18 -0600, Tukla Ratte
<tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote:

< snip >

It's more evil than Pat Boone in a studded leather vest.



Didn't you mean studded leather B&D/S&M gear?

Well, sure, but I didn't want to sound like a perv.
--
Tukla, Eater of Theists, Squeaker of Chew Toys
Official Mascot of Alt.Atheism, aa 1347
.
User: "stoney"

Title: Re: Does religion do more harm than good? 25 Jan 2005 06:04:44 PM
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 09:58:58 -0600, Tukla Ratte
<tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote:

stoney wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 12:24:18 -0600, Tukla Ratte
<tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote:


< snip >

It's more evil than Pat Boone in a studded leather vest.



Didn't you mean studded leather B&D/S&M gear?


Well, sure, but I didn't want to sound like a perv.

Understandable then why you didn't say sneakers and a long raincoat.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
User: "Tukla Ratte"

Title: Re: Does religion do more harm than good? 26 Jan 2005 11:39:03 AM
stoney wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 09:58:58 -0600, Tukla Ratte
<tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote:


stoney wrote:


On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 12:24:18 -0600, Tukla Ratte
<tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote:


< snip >

It's more evil than Pat Boone in a studded leather vest.



Didn't you mean studded leather B&D/S&M gear?


Well, sure, but I didn't want to sound like a perv.



Understandable then why you didn't say sneakers and a long raincoat.

Probably because I've seen Pat Boone in a leather-studded vest, with no
shirt underneath. <shudder>
--
Tukla, Eater of Theists, Squeaker of Chew Toys
Official Mascot of Alt.Atheism, aa 1347
.
User: "Mark K. Bilbo"

Title: Re: Does religion do more harm than good? 27 Jan 2005 10:35:54 AM
In our last episode <35q2toF4qoqi4U1@individual.net>, Tukla Ratte lumbered
into the room and mumbled:

stoney wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 09:58:58 -0600, Tukla Ratte <tukla_ratte@tukla.net>
wrote:


stoney wrote:


On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 12:24:18 -0600, Tukla Ratte <tukla_ratte@tukla.net>
wrote:


< snip >

It's more evil than Pat Boone in a studded leather vest.



Didn't you mean studded leather B&D/S&M gear?


Well, sure, but I didn't want to sound like a perv.



Understandable then why you didn't say sneakers and a long raincoat.


Probably because I've seen Pat Boone in a leather-studded vest, with no
shirt underneath. <shudder>

SSSHHHHHHHHRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IT BURNS!!!!!!!!!!!!
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
-- Seneca the Younger
.

User: "stoney"

Title: Re: Does religion do more harm than good? 27 Jan 2005 11:28:31 AM
On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 11:39:03 -0600, Tukla Ratte
<tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote:

stoney wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 09:58:58 -0600, Tukla Ratte
<tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote:


stoney wrote:


On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 12:24:18 -0600, Tukla Ratte
<tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote:


< snip >

It's more evil than Pat Boone in a studded leather vest.



Didn't you mean studded leather B&D/S&M gear?


Well, sure, but I didn't want to sound like a perv.



Understandable then why you didn't say sneakers and a long raincoat.


Probably because I've seen Pat Boone in a leather-studded vest, with no
shirt underneath. <shudder>

My condolances.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.





User: "TCS"

Title: Re: Does religion do more harm than good? 24 Jan 2005 12:47:24 PM
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 12:24:18 -0600, Tukla Ratte <tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote:

bob young wrote:


TCS wrote:

< snip >

Most of this article concerned the past, which, of course, we are
powerless to change. A more important question is: Will religion be a
force for good or evil in the future?


Two words: christian music.

'nuf said.



I wannay say, ask, something, does he above music come under the good or evil banner?

It's more evil than Pat Boone in a studded leather vest.

More evil than Roseanne Barr and Tom Arnold in a porno video.
.
User: "Robibnikoff"

Title: ~!Re: Does religion do more harm than good? 24 Jan 2005 12:50:01 PM
"TCS" <The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> wrote in message
news:slrncvaglr.dpu.The-Central-Scrutinizer@linux.client.comcast.net...

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 12:24:18 -0600, Tukla Ratte <tukla_ratte@tukla.net>
wrote:

bob young wrote:



TCS wrote:


< snip >


Most of this article concerned the past, which, of course, we are
powerless to change. A more important question is: Will religion be a
force for good or evil in the future?


Two words: christian music.

'nuf said.



I wannay say, ask, something, does he above music come under the good or
evil banner?


It's more evil than Pat Boone in a studded leather vest.


More evil than Roseanne Barr and Tom Arnold in a porno video.

Aaaack! Now, that's going over the line! :P
--
---------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.

User: "Harry F. Leopold"

Title: Re: Does religion do more harm than good? 24 Jan 2005 05:00:45 PM
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 12:47:24 -0600, TCS wrote
(in article
<slrncvaglr.dpu.The-Central-Scrutinizer@linux.client.comcast.net>):

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 12:24:18 -0600, Tukla Ratte <tukla_ratte@tukla.net>

wrote:

bob young wrote:



TCS wrote:


< snip >


Most of this article concerned the past, which, of course, we are
powerless to change. A more important question is: Will religion be a
force for good or evil in the future?


Two words: christian music.

'nuf said.



I wannay say, ask, something, does he above music come under the good or
evil banner?


It's more evil than Pat Boone in a studded leather vest.


More evil than Roseanne Barr and Tom Arnold in a porno video.

MY EYES! MY EYES! They are melting, melting.
--
Harry F. Leopold
aa #2076
AA/Vet #4
The Prints of Darkness
(remove gene to email)
America, making tomorrow's terrorists today.
.






User: "Iain"

Title: Re: Does religion do more harm than good? 24 Jan 2005 11:06:04 AM
BLUERHYMER wrote:

Does religion do more harm than good?

Yes
53%

No
47%

Here is the harm:
Religion is a needless antidote to peace and enlightenment, because:
1.Religion propagates misinformation, often un- or anti-scientific
2. It creates arbitrary social constructs and distinctions where none
would otherwise exist, clearing the path for warfare.
~Iain
.

User: "jwk"

Title: Re: Does religion do more harm than good? 21 Jan 2005 11:15:08 AM
BLUERHYMER wrote:

Does religion do more harm than good?

Yes
53%

No
47%

Would the World Be Safer Without Religion?
Faith makes people want to kill each other--but it's the best thing

we've got.
To annoy us with. (Since you're posting exclusively in AA.)
jwk
.

User: "bob young"

Title: Re: Does religion do more harm than good? 21 Jan 2005 08:11:42 PM
BLUERHYMER wrote:

Does religion do more harm than good?

Yes
53%

No
47%

Would the World Be Safer Without Religion?
Faith makes people want to kill each other--but it's the best thing we've got.

Religions are akin to nationalities. Most are brought up to believe in both from
the cradle so the chances of getting anyone to change either of them is remote
indeed.
Nationality can be shown and be proven, it exists; their imaginary gods do not.
Bob
Humanist Brit
Hong Kong



http://www.beliefnet.com/story/103/story_10357_1.html

Let us prey
---------------------

.
User: "duke"

Title: Re: Does religion do more harm than good? 22 Jan 2005 07:22:30 AM
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 10:11:42 +0800, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com>
wrote:

Nationality can be shown and be proven, it exists; their imaginary gods do not.

Now there's a biggie to use - if you can see it, it exists, if you can't see it,
then there is no way it exists.

duke
In God We Trust
*****
Matthew 7
21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,'
will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he
who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
*****
.
User: "Iain"

Title: Re: Does religion do more harm than good? 25 Jan 2005 11:39:38 AM
What he meant applies to all five senses.
~Iain
.



User: "Al Klein"

Title: Re: Does religion do more harm than good? 21 Jan 2005 05:17:55 PM
On 21 Jan 2005 13:34:19 GMT,
(BLUERHYMER) said in
alt.atheism:

Does religion do more harm than good?
Yes
53%
No
47%
Would the World Be Safer Without Religion?
Faith makes people want to kill each other--but it's the best thing we've got.

Best thing ... next to no religion.
--
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious
conviction."
- Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
.

User: "Christopher A. Lee"

Title: Re: Does religion do more harm than good? 21 Jan 2005 07:53:37 AM
On 21 Jan 2005 13:34:19 GMT,
(BLUERHYMER) wrote:

Does religion do more harm than good?

Yes
53%

No
47%

Would the World Be Safer Without Religion?
Faith makes people want to kill each other--but it's the best thing we've got.

Up to a certain level it is a societal survival factor. It unites the
group and it is easier to make people obey the rules.
Og: "I'm sick".
Ug: [Hmm... I've noticed that if I don't wash my hands after having a
crap, I get ill. But I can't explain why]: "The Sun-god says you
have to wash up after taking a dump"
If Og is satisfied this inhibits inquiry, because after Ug is no more
the original reason is forgotten.
Above that level and until the next, it is neutral because they don't
have better answers.
But once the society is sufficiently developed it is detrimental.
Ug's descendent: "I've discovered these things I call germs. They're
what causes sickness. They're in your ***** and all
sorts of other places. You can see them through this
microscope, and here's how to kill them"
Og's descendant: "No, you're wrong. It says here that the Sun-god
orders you to wash your hands. Stop teaching your
anti-religious falsehoods"
Like everything else, religion has to adapt to survive.
Sometimes it incorporates new knowledge. Other times it withdraws in
on itself. Sometimes it turns virulent and survives by destroying what
is in its way, especially when it has the force of the majority
behind it.
.
User: "bob young"

Title: Re: Does religion do more harm than good? 21 Jan 2005 08:13:54 PM
"Christopher A. Lee" wrote:

On 21 Jan 2005 13:34:19 GMT,

(BLUERHYMER) wrote:

Does religion do more harm than good?

Yes
53%

No
47%

Would the World Be Safer Without Religion?
Faith makes people want to kill each other--but it's the best thing we've got.


Up to a certain level it is a societal survival factor. It unites the
group and it is easier to make people obey the rules.

Og: "I'm sick".

Ug: [Hmm... I've noticed that if I don't wash my hands after having a
crap, I get ill. But I can't explain why]: "The Sun-god says you
have to wash up after taking a dump"

If Og is satisfied this inhibits inquiry, because after Ug is no more
the original reason is forgotten.

Above that level and until the next, it is neutral because they don't
have better answers.

But once the society is sufficiently developed it is detrimental.

Ug's descendent: "I've discovered these things I call germs. They're
what causes sickness. They're in your ***** and all
sorts of other places. You can see them through this
microscope, and here's how to kill them"

Og's descendant: "No, you're wrong. It says here that the Sun-god
orders you to wash your hands. Stop teaching your
anti-religious falsehoods"

Like everything else, religion has to adapt to survive.

Sometimes it incorporates new knowledge. Other times it withdraws in
on itself. Sometimes it turns virulent and survives by destroying what
is in its way, especially when it has the force of the majority
behind it.

We are the only animals with this problem.
Evolution gave giraffes a freakish long neck. They wre lucky, evolution gave man a
freakish brain.
.


User: "duke"

Title: Re: Does religion do more harm than good? 21 Jan 2005 05:24:10 PM
On 21 Jan 2005 13:34:19 GMT,
(BLUERHYMER) wrote:

Does religion do more harm than good?
Yes
53%
No
47%

Of course not. Religion is what gives us moral fiber.
duke
In God We Trust
*****
Matthew 7
21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,'
will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he
who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
*****
.


  Page 1 of 2

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