Religions > Atheism > Does the bible predict precisely when jesus started his minstry?
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"quibbler" |
| Date: |
21 Sep 2004 11:59:48 PM |
| Object: |
Does the bible predict precisely when jesus started his minstry? |
I had a fundy today tell me that bible prophecies predicted the exact
year that Jesus would appear and give his ministries. She couldn't tell
me where in the bible she got this and, while I'm pretty familiar with
the bible, I'm not sure which passages she's talking about either.
Since we can't even establish when he was born and have no firm
evidence on the date of crucifixion, I'm not sure this matters. I know
that jesus mentions in the gospels that his time "is not yet come", but
I don't think he backs it by reference to previous scripture. I suspect
that, if she's not just plain crazy, that she's relying upon very vague,
highly-interpreted passages that were selected after the fact, to fit
the alleged historical data.
--
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Does the bible predict precisely when jesus started his minstry? |
22 Sep 2004 12:36:52 AM |
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On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 22:59:48 -0600, quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I had a fundy today tell me that bible prophecies predicted the exact
year that Jesus would appear and give his ministries. She couldn't tell
me where in the bible she got this and, while I'm pretty familiar with
the bible, I'm not sure which passages she's talking about either.
Since we can't even establish when he was born and have no firm
evidence on the date of crucifixion, I'm not sure this matters. I know
that jesus mentions in the gospels that his time "is not yet come", but
I don't think he backs it by reference to previous scripture. I suspect
that, if she's not just plain crazy, that she's relying upon very vague,
highly-interpreted passages that were selected after the fact, to fit
the alleged historical data.
She's staking the claim.
It's entirely up to her to come up with the evidence.
For what it's worth, I think that I know the bible inside out, and it
doesn't occur to me that the old testament "predicts" anything like an
"exact year".
Of course, if the reference is in the New Testament, this would then
be, ipso-facto, a postdiction.
It's up to her to prove both you and me wrong though.
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| User: "Apostate" |
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| Title: Re: Does the bible predict precisely when jesus started his minstry? |
22 Sep 2004 12:29:32 PM |
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On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 22:59:48 -0600, quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:
I had a fundy today tell me that bible prophecies predicted the exact
year that Jesus would appear and give his ministries. She couldn't tell
me where in the bible she got this and, while I'm pretty familiar with
the bible, I'm not sure which passages she's talking about either.
Since we can't even establish when he was born and have no firm
evidence on the date of crucifixion, I'm not sure this matters. I know
that jesus mentions in the gospels that his time "is not yet come", but
I don't think he backs it by reference to previous scripture. I suspect
that, if she's not just plain crazy, that she's relying upon very vague,
highly-interpreted passages that were selected after the fact, to fit
the alleged historical data.
As opposed to what?
--
/Apostate
atheist #1931 I've found it!
BAAWA Knife AND SMASHer
EAC Supernumerary Deputy Director, Department of Redundancy Department
plonked by Lani_girl, first post; Billions Served!
I doubt, therefore I might be.
For e-mail, hold that tiger!
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Does the bible predict precisely when jesus started his minstry? |
23 Sep 2004 04:57:27 AM |
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On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 22:59:48 -0600, quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:
I had a fundy today tell me that bible prophecies predicted the exact
year that Jesus would appear and give his ministries. She couldn't tell
me where in the bible she got this and, while I'm pretty familiar with
the bible, I'm not sure which passages she's talking about either.
Since we can't even establish when he was born and have no firm
evidence on the date of crucifixion, I'm not sure this matters. I know
that jesus mentions in the gospels that his time "is not yet come", but
I don't think he backs it by reference to previous scripture. I suspect
that, if she's not just plain crazy, that she's relying upon very vague,
highly-interpreted passages that were selected after the fact, to fit
the alleged historical data.
The bible deals in prophesy, not prediction.
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
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| User: "wbarwell" |
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| Title: Re: Does the bible predict precisely when jesus started his minstry? |
23 Sep 2004 12:08:40 PM |
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duke wrote:
On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 22:59:48 -0600, quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I had a fundy today tell me that bible prophecies predicted the exact
year that Jesus would appear and give his ministries. She couldn't tell
me where in the bible she got this and, while I'm pretty familiar with
the bible, I'm not sure which passages she's talking about either.
Since we can't even establish when he was born and have no firm
evidence on the date of crucifixion, I'm not sure this matters. I know
that jesus mentions in the gospels that his time "is not yet come", but
I don't think he backs it by reference to previous scripture. I suspect
that, if she's not just plain crazy, that she's relying upon very vague,
highly-interpreted passages that were selected after the fact, to fit
the alleged historical data.
The bible deals in prophesy, not prediction.
Prophecy, bad prediction, often written after the fact.
Jesus predicts he'd preside over judgment day
and the end of the world 1970 years ago and blows
it out his *****.
Christians are so damned stupid they can't even
read their own bibles and notice that.
--
Kerry - two medals a silver and bronze star.
Bush? Well they don't give medals
for going AWOL, missing your medical and
getting grounded or falling off of a bar stool.
Kerry - a hero, Bush - a zero
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Does the bible predict precisely when jesus started his minstry? |
24 Sep 2004 02:23:33 PM |
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The bible deals in prophesy, not prediction.
Prophecy, bad prediction, often written after the fact.
Jesus predicts he'd preside over judgment day
and the end of the world 1970 years ago and blows
it out his *****.
Sorry, he said no such thing. He announced the coming of the kingdom of God before most
men alive that day "fell asleep". Nothing about judgment day and the end of the world.
Christians are so damned stupid they can't even
read their own bibles and notice that.
OR, we are the ones that know what it says, and YOU are the one so damned stupid you don't
know what it says.
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
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| User: "wbarwell" |
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| Title: Re: Does the bible predict precisely when jesus started his minstry? |
25 Sep 2004 06:06:52 AM |
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duke wrote:
The bible deals in prophesy, not prediction.
Prophecy, bad prediction, often written after the fact.
Jesus predicts he'd preside over judgment day
and the end of the world 1970 years ago and blows
it out his *****.
Sorry, he said no such thing. He announced the coming of the kingdom of
God before most
men alive that day "fell asleep". Nothing about judgment day and the end
of the world.
Matthew 16:27-8.
Mathhew 24 - 5. See Matthew 25:31-45.
He shall sit on his "throne of glory"
He will be "the King"
He will "gather the tribes" and "sort" the
"Sheep" and "the goats".
That is "reward all men according to their works"
as per Matthew 16.
End of the world, Matthew 24:3
When?
In "this generation".
(Matthew 24:36)
In the time of "Some standing here".
(Matthew 16;27-8)
In the lifetime of the high priest.
(Matthew 26:64, 24:30)
You might actually try reading the bible some day.
Not just thumping on something you know nothing about.
Heaven and Earth shall pass away,
but my word shall not pass away.
Its all there.
Christians are so damned stupid they can't even
read their own bibles and notice that.
OR, we are the ones that know what it says, and YOU are the one so damned
stupid you don't know what it says.
You have a proven history of knowing nothing
about your own bible.
--
Kerry - two medals a silver and bronze star.
Bush? Well they don't give medals
for going AWOL, missing your medical and
getting grounded or falling off of a bar stool.
Kerry - a hero, Bush - a zero
Cheerful Charlie
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Does the bible predict precisely when jesus started his minstry? |
26 Sep 2004 10:51:03 AM |
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On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 07:06:52 -0400, wbarwell <wbarwell@munnnged.mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
Sorry, he said no such thing. He announced the coming of the kingdom of
God before most
men alive that day "fell asleep". Nothing about judgment day and the end
of the world.
Matthew 16:27-8.
Mathhew 24 - 5. See Matthew 25:31-45.
He shall sit on his "throne of glory"
He will be "the King"
He will "gather the tribes" and "sort" the
"Sheep" and "the goats".
That is "reward all men according to their works"
as per Matthew 16.
Which started with his ascension to the Father 40 days after his resurrection. Or one
might say the day he rose from the dead. It's called the kingdom of God, not the end of
the world. This all Christians understand.
Better luck next time, barwell.
End of the world, Matthew 24:3
When?
In "this generation".
(Matthew 24:36)
In the time of "Some standing here".
(Matthew 16;27-8)
In the lifetime of the high priest.
(Matthew 26:64, 24:30)
And most people were still alive 40 days after his resurrection. That's the key point you
don't understand - the risen and glorified Lord. The new way.
You might actually try reading the bible some day.
Not just thumping on something you know nothing about.
I know what it says.
Heaven and Earth shall pass away,
but my word shall not pass away.
Its all there.
And it has all come true.
Christians are so damned stupid they can't even
read their own bibles and notice that.
OR, we are the ones that know what it says, and YOU are the one so damned
stupid you don't know what it says.
You have a proven history of knowing nothing
about your own bible.
You mean that all the things that you thesis disagree with me.
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
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| User: "james" |
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| Title: Re: Does the bible predict precisely when jesus started his minstry? |
24 Sep 2004 09:11:53 PM |
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wbarwell <wbarwell@munnnged.mylinuxisp.com> wrote in message news:<41531013$0$167$811e409b@news.mylinuxisp.com>...
duke wrote:
On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 22:59:48 -0600, quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I had a fundy today tell me that bible prophecies predicted the exact
year that Jesus would appear and give his ministries. She couldn't tell
me where in the bible she got this and, while I'm pretty familiar with
the bible, I'm not sure which passages she's talking about either.
Since we can't even establish when he was born and have no firm
evidence on the date of crucifixion, I'm not sure this matters. I know
that jesus mentions in the gospels that his time "is not yet come", but
I don't think he backs it by reference to previous scripture. I suspect
that, if she's not just plain crazy, that she's relying upon very vague,
highly-interpreted passages that were selected after the fact, to fit
the alleged historical data.
The bible deals in prophesy, not prediction.
Prophecy, bad prediction, often written after the fact.
Jesus predicts he'd preside over judgment day
and the end of the world 1970 years ago and blows
it out his *****.
Christians are so damned stupid they can't even
read their own bibles and notice that.
Could you explain what it is you are saying?? You seem to have a
greater understanding of the Bible then most Christians have, or is it
that you just think you do. Either way, I for one would like to read
your explanation.
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Does the bible predict precisely when jesus started his minstry? |
26 Sep 2004 10:51:47 AM |
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On 24 Sep 2004 19:11:53 -0700, (james) wrote:
Could you explain what it is you are saying?? You seem to have a
greater understanding of the Bible then most Christians have, or is it
that you just think you do. Either way, I for one would like to read
your explanation.
He doesn't have the slightest idea what he's saying.
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
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| User: "wbarwell" |
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| Title: Re: Does the bible predict precisely when jesus started his minstry? |
25 Sep 2004 05:48:10 AM |
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james wrote:
wbarwell <wbarwell@munnnged.mylinuxisp.com> wrote in message
news:<41531013$0$167$811e409b@news.mylinuxisp.com>...
duke wrote:
On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 22:59:48 -0600, quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I had a fundy today tell me that bible prophecies predicted the exact
year that Jesus would appear and give his ministries. She couldn't
tell me where in the bible she got this and, while I'm pretty familiar
with the bible, I'm not sure which passages she's talking about either.
Since we can't even establish when he was born and have no firm
evidence on the date of crucifixion, I'm not sure this matters. I know
that jesus mentions in the gospels that his time "is not yet come", but
I don't think he backs it by reference to previous scripture. I
suspect that, if she's not just plain crazy, that she's relying upon
very vague, highly-interpreted passages that were selected after the
fact, to fit the alleged historical data.
The bible deals in prophesy, not prediction.
Prophecy, bad prediction, often written after the fact.
Jesus predicts he'd preside over judgment day
and the end of the world 1970 years ago and blows
it out his *****.
Christians are so damned stupid they can't even
read their own bibles and notice that.
Could you explain what it is you are saying?? You seem to have a
greater understanding of the Bible then most Christians have, or is it
that you just think you do. Either way, I for one would like to read
your explanation.
Yes. See Matthew 16:27-8. Jesus tells his listeners
that he will "come in his kingdom" and "reward"
all men for their acts. When? He says some standing
here shall not taste of death" until they see these things.
What does this mean? Matthew 25 reiterates this claim.
Not Matthew 24 - 25 are one narrative speech by Jesus,
one pericope.
Matthew 25:31-45.
He will be "the King", that is come into his kingdom.
He shall sit on his throne of Glory.
He shall gather the tribes before him. And then he will
sort out the sheep and the goats, the sheep on his right
hand, the goats to his left.
That is, the good and evil men will be sorted.
The good shall havve life eternal, 25:46 and the evil
will depart to hell, 25:41.
When, Matthew 24:36 says "this generation" is to witness
these things. See also Mark 13, Luke 21.
See also Mark 8:34 - 9:1.
A parallel to Matthew 16:27-8
Matthew 24-5 moves from Jesus instructing his apostles
of the near term future. The temple will be destroyed,
the world shall end, (24:3). Wars, false Christs, the sun
amd moon shall fail, the stars shall fall.
Jesus will descend from heaven with "clouds of heaven".
and his fathers angels. They shall gather the elect.
Again see Luke 21, Mark 13 for parallel verses.
Matthew 25 has a long parable and then to the
kingship and judgement of all by Jesus.
Not the word's "clouds of heaven" in Matthew 24:30.
You see the same words in Matthew 26:64 as Jesus
tells the high priest of Jerusaelm that he will see Jesus
descend from heabven with great glory and "clouds of
heaven".
Many xians tell us "this generation" means race or other
than what it obviously says, but "clouds of heaven" show
us that is a mere apologism.
Note again Matthew 6, the sermon on the Mount,
his followers are told not to worry about tomorrow,
what they shall eat, drink or wear.
Jesus throughout his speeches repeatedly tells people
to sell all they have and give to the poor. Not to
own riches, to abandon homes, families and businesses.
Seel Luke 12, especially 31-4, sell all you have.
The end is near and anything that may stop one
from having a place in heaven is to be immediately
abandoned. Time is short.
Matthew is the most explicit about the end and
its timing, which is inexact, but near.
Once you read that, many other verses of the gospels
make sense, the sermon on the Mount of Matthew 6,
commands to let the dead bury the dead and follow
Jesus, don't even take time to bury your dead father.
Time is short!
People who abandon land, homes and family in this
time will be recompensed 100 times in the new order
to come shortly.
None of this urgency you see again and again in the gospels
make sense with an end 2000 years away.
Luke 21:32-3 and Mark 16:30 explicitly tell us "this generation"
is to see the return and descent of Jesus.
Matthew is the most explicit and least cryptic
of the gospels on this point and the key to understanding
it.
--
Kerry - two medals a silver and bronze star.
Bush? Well they don't give medals
for going AWOL, missing your medical and
getting grounded or falling off of a bar stool.
Kerry - a hero, Bush - a zero
Cheerful Charlie
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Does the bible predict precisely when jesus started his minstry? |
26 Sep 2004 11:00:07 AM |
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On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 06:48:10 -0400, wbarwell <wbarwell@munnnged.mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
Yes. See Matthew 16:27-8. Jesus tells his listeners
that he will "come in his kingdom" and "reward"
all men for their acts. When? He says some standing
here shall not taste of death" until they see these things.
He came in his glory with his resurrection, rose to the Father 40 days later, and sits at
the right hand of the Father in judgment of men every since.
It's easy that "many standing here will not taste death until these things come true."
You're a sad little man, for pretending to know what you don't.
What does this mean? Matthew 25 reiterates this claim.
Not Matthew 24 - 25 are one narrative speech by Jesus,
one pericope.
Matthew 25:31-45.
He will be "the King", that is come into his kingdom.
He shall sit on his throne of Glory.
He shall gather the tribes before him. And then he will
sort out the sheep and the goats, the sheep on his right
hand, the goats to his left.
That is, the good and evil men will be sorted.
The good shall havve life eternal, 25:46 and the evil
will depart to hell, 25:41.
That last statement is a good one. For we are judged at the moment of our death for the
things we did in the flesh.
When, Matthew 24:36 says "this generation" is to witness
these things. See also Mark 13, Luke 21.
See also Mark 8:34 - 9:1.
A parallel to Matthew 16:27-8
Matthew 24-5 moves from Jesus instructing his apostles
of the near term future. The temple will be destroyed,
The temple was actually destroyed in 70AD. In the following 37 years after his death on
the cross, the temple was destroyed, and many standing here now did witness the beginning
of his glory when he ascended to the Father 40 days after his resurrection.
Good old barwell - still impressive in his own mind.
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
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| User: "james" |
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| Title: Re: Does the bible predict precisely when jesus started his minstry? |
22 Sep 2004 10:34:48 AM |
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quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<MPG.1bba950e52aa2062989990@news.individual.net>...
I had a fundy today tell me that bible prophecies predicted the exact
year that Jesus would appear and give his ministries. She couldn't tell
me where in the bible she got this and, while I'm pretty familiar with
the bible, I'm not sure which passages she's talking about either.
Since we can't even establish when he was born and have no firm
evidence on the date of crucifixion, I'm not sure this matters. I know
that jesus mentions in the gospels that his time "is not yet come", but
I don't think he backs it by reference to previous scripture. I suspect
that, if she's not just plain crazy, that she's relying upon very vague,
highly-interpreted passages that were selected after the fact, to fit
the alleged historical data.
The Bible states he will come like a thief in the night. Does anyone
know when he or she will be robbed? He will come like he left. Do you
know how he left? Who say him leave, those that knew who he was or
those that did not know him?
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Does the bible predict precisely when jesus started his minstry? |
22 Sep 2004 12:52:34 PM |
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"james" <wrightxy@netins.net> wrote in message
news:7add221a.0409220734.63dc10c0@posting.google.com...
quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<MPG.1bba950e52aa2062989990@news.individual.net>...
I had a fundy today tell me that bible prophecies predicted the exact
year that Jesus would appear and give his ministries. She couldn't tell
me where in the bible she got this and, while I'm pretty familiar with
the bible, I'm not sure which passages she's talking about either.
Since we can't even establish when he was born and have no firm
evidence on the date of crucifixion, I'm not sure this matters. I know
that jesus mentions in the gospels that his time "is not yet come", but
I don't think he backs it by reference to previous scripture. I suspect
that, if she's not just plain crazy, that she's relying upon very vague,
highly-interpreted passages that were selected after the fact, to fit
the alleged historical data.
The Bible states he will come like a thief in the night. Does anyone
know when he or she will be robbed? He will come like he left. Do you
know how he left? Who say him leave, those that knew who he was or
those that did not know him?
"Look, Jesus must have been here!"
"How can you tell?"
"There's obvious signs of forced entry!"
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
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| User: "AnotherObserver®" |
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| Title: Re: Does the bible predict precisely when jesus started his minstry? |
22 Sep 2004 11:30:27 AM |
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quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:
I had a fundy today tell me that bible prophecies predicted the exact
year that Jesus would appear and give his ministries. She couldn't tell
me where in the bible she got this and, while I'm pretty familiar with
the bible, I'm not sure which passages she's talking about either.
Since we can't even establish when he was born and have no firm
evidence on the date of crucifixion, I'm not sure this matters. I know
that jesus mentions in the gospels that his time "is not yet come", but
I don't think he backs it by reference to previous scripture. I suspect
that, if she's not just plain crazy, that she's relying upon very vague,
highly-interpreted passages that were selected after the fact, to fit
the alleged historical data.
Her conclusion probably was directed by supplementary church study
materials that were pages long and based on a verse or two.
The entertainment value never dulls. "I STUDY MY BIBLE!! This week
we studied Acts 22:6-7 for an hour, along with our study materials
that explain it all to us." <shudder>
--
Davidwd
~~~~~~~~~
irreligionist
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| User: "dgillesp" |
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| Title: Re: Does the bible predict precisely when jesus started his minstry? |
22 Sep 2004 07:24:27 AM |
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quibbler wrote:
I had a fundy today tell me that bible prophecies predicted the exact
year that Jesus would appear and give his ministries. She couldn't tell
me where in the bible she got this and, while I'm pretty familiar with
the bible, I'm not sure which passages she's talking about either.
Since we can't even establish when he was born and have no firm
evidence on the date of crucifixion, I'm not sure this matters. I know
that jesus mentions in the gospels that his time "is not yet come", but
I don't think he backs it by reference to previous scripture. I suspect
that, if she's not just plain crazy, that she's relying upon very vague,
highly-interpreted passages that were selected after the fact, to fit
the alleged historical data.
I agree with your take on the matter. The modern concern for calendar
accuracy and precise dates is not often to be found in the Bible. Thus
numbers in the Bible are seldom to be taken literally. Noah in the ark "40
days", Moses was on the mountain "40 days", Israel was in the wilderness
"40 years", Jesus was tempted in the wilderness "40 days" and was seen by
His disciples for "40 days" after His resurrection. This was a semitic way
of showing the relationship of certain events to one another, as well as
using the number 40 to indicate a significant number of days (or years as
the case may be).
Denny
--
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
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