Jason Gastrich wrote:

Dear agnostics and atheists,

This message is for all of you that know that your position is very weak.
All of you that know deep down there is a Creator because the evidence is
just too compelling for intelligent design.

Just walk away. Do what hundreds have done before you and leave this group
of scoffers. Do you ever wonder why some people you used to know have
suddenly disappeared? Are you tired of being associated with fools?

When you leave the hostile environment of alt.atheism, you can have the
chance to really consider what you believe. Face it. The feelings you've
been having about a Creator won't be confirmed here. They won't be
respected here. Heck, you won't be respected here.

Leaving alt.atheism to research your beliefs, search your heart, and even
consult some real and honest friends is wise. My prayers are with you.

This is addressed to the same people on alt.atheism (and
free.christians) that Gastrich was addressing: those who are atheists
or agnostics, and who may be having doubts about it.

Yes, doubts happen. No, you most certainly are not stupid or
weak-minded because of it -- to doubt is to human, and that's why
there are so many atheists. And yes, alt.atheism can, at times, be a
hostile environment. But consider this: it is also one of the only
places on the Internet where people will tell you the truth rather
than spare your feelings. It's a place you come, not to feel better
(although many do feel better in this community of intelligent,
like-minded people), but to be free of *****. You might get a lot
of things from us -- insults, compliments, love, hatred, apathy,
disgust, excitement -- but never *****. And that's why Gastrich
wants you to leave.

Gastrich would have you believe that "hundreds" of people have left
the group due to their doubting atheism. In fact, hundreds of people
probably leave the group every DAY and never return. That's because
alt.atheism is a very big group -- it accounts for just under one
percent of all the traffic on the ENTIRE USENET. People, even
regulars, leave all the time -- I myself was absent for several years
until I returned recently, for reasons that had nothing at all to do
with my atheism. I was a confident atheist then, I am a confident
atheist now.

Gastrich would have you believe that you are not respected here. If
you're an *****, or if you're out to ***** people, then Gastrich
is right -- you aren't. Gastrich isn't, for both of those reasons. But
if you're a fairly decent person, then you don't need me to tell you
that you ARE respected here. You should already know it -- and if you
don't, then please accept my apology on alt.atheism's behalf.

Gastrich wants you to leave because when one attempts to convert a
person to religion, it makes sense to first remove that person from an
atheist environment and immerse them in a Christian environment. That
is a point of assymetry in the Christian/atheism relationship: Many
people have become atheists because of factors within their Christian
environment, but rarely the reverse. For all the talk of people being
atheists during their sex/drugs/crime years, before being "born
again," the fact is that Christianity is caused by a Christian
environment. That's why Gastrich wants you out of this one.

Don't just walk away. If you have doubts about your atheism or
agnosticism, stay in alt.atheism and ask questions. I can't guarantee
you'll like the answers, but I can guarantee that we won't *****
you. The same cannot be said of Gastrich and his ilk.

Gastrich says that you "know deep down" that theism is true, because
"the evidence is just too compelling." I am here to tell you that all
of this "evidence" has already been heard by atheists. We have
examined it, scrutinized it, and found it wanting to say the least.
Furthermore, these examinations and rejections have been widely
published on the internet. For any piece of "too-compelling evidence
that Gastrich can present, an atheist rebuttal to it, or a minor
variation of it, already exists. So when I say that there is no
evidence, compelling or otherwise, for intelligent design, it is not
necessary for me to ask you to take my word for it. The information is
out there.

Ultimately, of course, only you can decide what it is you believe. If
in the end you end up a theist, that's fine with me -- I ask only that
you not become an ***** and a bullshitter like Gastrich while you're
at it. But know this: that little voice "deep down" that Gastrich is
talking about is not a voice that's telling you that there really is
evidence for a creator deity. Rather, it's the little voice that every
one of us has, and so many of us ignore: the voice that tells us that
we are honest seekers of truth, and always will be. Accept that little
voice. Embrace it. It's the reason you're an atheist to begin with.


Dave

Jason Gastrich wrote:

Dear agnostics and atheists,

This message is for all of you that know that your position is very weak.

All of you that know deep down there is a Creator because the evidence is
just too compelling for intelligent design.

Just walk away.

Do what hundreds have done before you and leave this group

of scoffers. Do you ever wonder why some people you used to know have

suddenly disappeared? Are you tired of being associated with fools?

When you leave the hostile environment of alt.atheism, you can have the

chance to really consider what you believe. Face it. The feelings you've

been having about a Creator won't be confirmed here. They won't be

respected here. Heck, you won't be respected here.

Leaving alt.atheism to research your beliefs, search your heart, and even

consult some real and honest friends is wise. My prayers are with you.