On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:51:29 -0500, wbarwell <wbarwell@munnnged.mylinuxisp.com> wrote:

Like I said, God is letting you declare your eternal destination.

There is no god, we end all the same. No matter how you bawl and whimper,
your make belive god can't help you here.

Me: win (hopefully)/no win. Atheist: lose/no win. No win comes into play if there is
no almighty God.

duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<mdnjq0t0sahno4lmf8ujl008485n9p3mr8@4ax.com>...

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:51:29 -0500, wbarwell <wbarwell@munnnged.mylinuxisp.com> wrote:

Like I said, God is letting you declare your eternal destination.

There is no god, we end all the same. No matter how you bawl and whimper,
your make belive god can't help you here.

Me: win (hopefully)/no win. Atheist: lose/no win.
No win comes into play if there is
no almighty God.

Oh you can lose alright.

If your daughter or son marries a Jehovah Witness,
Moonie, or some other cult and they shun you.

If someone who could cure disease is fooled into
believing creationism and thus does not follow
the right career path

If your grand children are gay and your relgion
teaches you to hate them.

If you devote 20 hrs a week raising money
for a non-existent God.

Me: win (hopefully)/no win. Atheist: lose/no win.
No win comes into play if there is
no almighty God.

Oh you can lose alright.
If your daughter or son marries a Jehovah Witness,
Moonie, or some other cult and they shun you.

If someone who could cure disease is fooled into
believing creationism and thus does not follow
the right career path

If your grand children are gay and your relgion
teaches you to hate them.

If you devote 20 hrs a week raising money
for a non-existent God.

etc. etc. etc.
Larry

duke wrote:

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:51:29 -0500, wbarwell
<wbarwell@munnnged.mylinuxisp.com> wrote:

Like I said, God is letting you declare your eternal destination.

There is no god, we end all the same. No matter how you bawl and
whimper,
your make belive god can't help you here.

Me: win (hopefully)/no win. Atheist: lose/no win. No win comes into
play if there is
no almighty God.

You may already be a wiener.

Jack

duke wrote:

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:51:29 -0500, wbarwell <wbarwell@munnnged.mylinuxisp.com> wrote:

Like I said, God is letting you declare your eternal destination.

There is no god, we end all the same. No matter how you bawl and whimper,
your make belive god can't help you here.

Me: win (hopefully)/no win. Atheist: lose/no win. No win comes into play if there is
no almighty God.

You may already be a wiener.

Me: win (hopefully)/no win. Atheist: lose/no win. No win comes into
play if there is no almighty God.

You lose. God no more exists than the Tooth Fairy.

**************************************************

God Disproven - Part 2

There are several concepts of god that are meant
when that word is used. One is the philosophers'
god derived from ancient Greek concepts, the god
that is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent.
But we also have the biblical god, the god of
the old testament, Yahweh, El, the god of Genesis
Exodus and the other books of the bible. This god
is a historical god, not a philosphical god.
His nature and existance are said to be found in
the Torah, the old testament.

At the turn of the 19th century archeology saw
the establishment of so called biblical archaeology,
archaeology mostly of an American origin dedicated
optimistically to showing that the bible was true.
Instead, over a century, it showed the opposite.
Biblical archaeology never really existed as a
seperate 'discipline', it was an aspect of Near
Eastern Archaeology.

It is now established that much of the bible is in
no way history nor true. There was no Egyptian
captivity, no exodus, no 40 years wandering, no bloody
invasion of Canaan lead by Moses and Joshua. With
that faux history debunked, so goes the theological
concepts embedded in this this faux history.

God here is understood to have been an entity that
at certain specific times did certain specific things
at certain specific places involving certain specific
persons. But if these places and persons did not exist,
this god likewise does not exist, they are all just
characters in a novel masquerding as history.

Archaeology has found and excavated the cities
supposedly destroyed by Joshua and the Israelites
and found they were ruins long before any Israelite
could have been in the area.
Several excavations have looked for the 36 year
long encampments of the Israelites at Kadesh Barnea
and failed.
Egyptologists find names of numerous foreigners
and their gods attested to in Egyptian literture,
tombs and other sources, but no Israelite names,
no mention of Yahweh can be found. Odd for a people
that supposedly were in Egypt for 430 years starting
70 persons.
Despite that, Israel show little Egyptianisms,
not in language, architecture, pottery, writing systems,
literary traditions, clothing or other things you'd
expect from a people who starting with 70 people
spent 430 years in Egypt, growing to a massive presence
there from biblical accounts.
And these bible tall tales are replete with errors,
anachronisms and other signs it is not history.
Thus archaeology and historians and bible scholars
have concluded that from Genesis to Judges, the bible
is most certainly not history.

Rather in recent decades, archaeologists have discovered
the true facts about Israel. They were typical Canaanites
who peacefully spread throught the hill country as peaceful
farmers in unfortified hilltop farms. This population of
farmers later developed into Israel, Judah, Moab, Ammon,
Edom andother similar states in that area of the world.

There was no invasion as per Joshua. No Moses on the mount,
no god leading the Israelites as a pillar of smoke or fire,
no plagues of Egypt, no genocides ordered by god.
This god and all these happenings are fantasies. The god
attached to these tall tales did not and does not exist
anymore than did Winnie the Pooh in his Hundred Acre Woods.
Both are mere characters in novels, the only difference is
most people don't realize the bible is just a bad novel
pieced together from ancient myths long ago. They have
no idea archaeologists and historians have abandoned
all of this as being in any way history or being true.

But this god, that did certain things in certain places
at certain times with certain people is in fact, dead
and gone. Disproven, debunked and gone.
Because these places and times and people have been
disproven as having never existed and god disappears with
these now debunked tales.

A few quotes from the experts:

"The Rise of Ancient Israel"
A Symposium at the Smithsonian Institute
October 26, 1991
Biblical Archaeology Society 1992

Herschel Schanks
"Well archaeology is no longer a crutch in
this classic sense of a conquest model. We
simply can no longer posit a series of destructions
in Canann that can be rationally identified as the
result of the Israelite conquest. Recently our
archaeological methodology has improved, we can date
levels more securely, and more sites have been excavated.
As a result we can no longer say that archeology
supports what we call the conquest model of Israel's
emergence in Canaan."

William G. Dever
"The conquest model is not subsribed to by most
biblical scholars today - certainly no one in the
mainstream of scholarship - and that's been true
for some time. Moreover, there isn't a single
reputable professional archaeologist in the world
whoespouses the conquest model in Israel, Europe,
or America. We don't need to say anymore about
the conquest model. That's that. (Laughter)
Not to be dogmatic about it or anything, but..
(Laughter)"

"From Nomadism to Monarchy
- Archaeological and Historical Aspects
of Early Israel"
Edited by Israel Finkelstein and Nadav Na'aman.
Biblical Archaeology Society 1994

Israel Finkelstein and Nadav Na'aman
Introduction Page 13
"Combination of archeological and historical
research demonstrates that the biblical account
of the conquest and occupation of Canaan is
entirely divorced from historical reality.
Instead, it proves the correctness of the
literary-critical approach to the biblical text.
The biblical descriptions of the origin and early
history of the people of Israel are not disimilar
from narratives on the origins of other peoples,
which likewise do not withstand the test of
historical criticism."

Nadav Na'aman Page 249
"It is commonly accepted today that the majority
of conquest stories in the book of Joshua are devoid
of historical reality."

"What Did The Biblical Writers Know & When
Did They Know It?"
- William G. Dever
William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company
2001

Page 121
"Now let us turn to the biblical data. If we look
at the biblical texts describing the the origins
of Israel, we see at once that the traditional
account contained from Genesis to Joshua cannot be
reconciled with the picture derived from
archaeological investigation.The whole
"Exodus-Conquest" cycle of stories must now be set
aside as largely mythical, but in the proper sense
of the word myth: perhaps "historical fiction"
but tales told primarily to validate religous
beliefs."

Page 282
"Here we must confront squarely the essential
dilemma of the modern reader of the Hebrew Bible.
a dilemma that nearly all writers of today acknowledge.
Does critical study of the bible undermine religous
faith, perhaps more importantly diminish the value
of the Bible as a basis for cultural and moral
values? For the fundamentalists, or for many
conservative Christians, Jews an others, the answer
is: Yes. These folk must then reject modern literary
other critical methods, although I have assumed here
that such methods are to be taken for granted by any
well-informed reader in the modern world. There is
irony here. In North America and in places in Europe
archaeology is accepted, even enthusiastically embraced,
because it is mistakenly thought it will after all,
"prove the Bible is true".


**************************************************