| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"neo" |
| Date: |
01 Aug 2007 10:46:43 PM |
| Object: |
Dumb People = Evil People. |
Carrie wrote:
"Robin" <miracleweb@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1186013534.477263.212680@e16g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
I'm NEVER going to see things in your way Gene, it just make
absolutely no sense to me, if you were really interested in changing
my mind you wouldn't approach me in such a adversarial way anyway. You
only interest is in being a big shot and making out that you know
something I don't. You are a bullshitter and so am I so stop trying to
***** a bullshitter...
Why would anyone want to change anyone's mind?
Because dumb people are equal to evil or insane people. They are
danger to people around them.
There are 10 employees of your rank who are supposed to have equal
capacity, intelligence, ability. 3 of them are dumb. They can't do
certain work and rest of 7 has to do their work.
There are always 2 options before 7 people.
1. Refuge to do work of 3 people and let them do their work. But that
work is related to job of cashier. These 3 people will surely suffer
financial loss every time which can be more than their salary. They
got wife, childrens, family to feed. Also they are so dumb, slow that
ultimately when rush increases, office will have to arrange second
person to handle the job.
2. Show mercy, humanity and do the work of these 3 people. That puts
rest of 7 employees under extra pressure with no benefit at all.
Why would anyone want to change mind of 3 employees?
Because they are not even aware that their dumbness is fatal for
others.
It is indeed fatal. Few days ago, two of 7 employees suffered heavy
loss and these 3 dumb people are behaving as if nothing happened.
And this situation applies to world outside. These dumb people are not
even aware that their dumb behaviour is fatal for peace of world.
These dumb people include that lee, maz, sheron, sheryl, robin, you
etc. They 'think' that they are spreading peace and love. But in the
eyes of other religions, they are spreading christianity and that
makes other people to hate them. What is wrong with muhammad,
siddharth, krishna etc. These dumb people always forget golden rule.
Step in shoes of others and look at yourself. If you feel hatred, what
you are doing is wrong. Step in shoes of buddhist and look at bible.
Why would you want to read bible if you have already mahayana teaching
same things. But no matter how rationally you talk, dumb atheist will
not understand it.
I do it in my office, rationalized talking does not work before such
dumb people to make it clear that their dumbness is fatal for other of
us. They just look at me strangly. They even say that they are always
ready to do their job, but they are 'new' (even after 20 years
service).
Got that?
.
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| User: "Tera Free Nws" |
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| Title: Re: Dumb People = Evil People. |
01 Aug 2007 11:03:20 PM |
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On Aug 1, 10:46 pm, neo <abhij...@operamail.com> wrote:
I do it in my office, rationalized talking does not work before such
dumb people to make it clear that their dumbness is fatal for other of
us. They just look at me strangly. They even say that they are always
ready to do their job, but they are 'new' (even after 20 years
service).
Got that?
ROTFLMAO.
.
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| User: "smurf" |
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| Title: Re: Dumb People = Evil People. |
02 Aug 2007 03:59:08 PM |
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On Aug 2, 12:03 am, Tera Free Nws <QQJo...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Aug 1, 10:46 pm, neo <abhij...@operamail.com> wrote:
I do it in my office, rationalized talking does not work before such
dumb people to make it clear that their dumbness is fatal for other of
us. They just look at me strangly. They even say that they are always
ready to do their job, but they are 'new' (even after 20 years
service).
Got that?
ROTFLMAO.
It takes a dumb person to recognize one. Congratulations.
.
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| User: "Midwinter" |
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| Title: Re: Dumb People = Evil People. |
03 Aug 2007 03:48:04 AM |
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smurf <scsmurf@gmail.com> wrote :
It takes a dumb person to recognize one. Congratulations.
You didn't just say "takes one to know one", did you?
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| User: "A" |
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| Title: Re: Dumb People = Evil People. |
02 Aug 2007 04:24:52 PM |
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smurf wrote:
On Aug 2, 12:03 am, Tera Free Nws <QQJo...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Aug 1, 10:46 pm, neo <abhij...@operamail.com> wrote:
I do it in my office, rationalized talking does not work before such
dumb people to make it clear that their dumbness is fatal for other of
us. They just look at me strangly. They even say that they are always
ready to do their job, but they are 'new' (even after 20 years
service).
Got that?
ROTFLMAO.
It takes a dumb person to recognize one. Congratulations.
You apparently missed the irony of your own "recognition".
I don't know if congratulations are in order, unless there
is an award for irony, in which case I'd congratulate you.
.
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| User: "JoeC" |
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| Title: Re: Dumb People = Evil People. |
03 Aug 2007 04:03:47 PM |
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Tera Free Nws wrote:
On Aug 1, 10:46 pm, neo <abhij...@operamail.com> wrote:
I do it in my office, rationalized talking does not work before such
dumb people to make it clear that their dumbness is fatal for other of
us. They just look at me strangly. They even say that they are always
ready to do their job, but they are 'new' (even after 20 years
service).
Got that?
ROTFLMAO.
I would like to answer simply NO. They may be dangerous if not properly
monitored. A shark is dangerous but not evil. Evil is intent to harm.
That is intentional harming usually for personal gain. An evil person
will do harm or steal at the first opportunity. If some one is
dangerous and affect productivity they should be let go based on the
fact the risk they present is greater than they produce. Robbing banks
has a great risk and reward if successful.
.
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| User: "JoeC" |
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| Title: Re: Dumb People = Evil People. |
03 Aug 2007 03:56:22 PM |
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Tera Free Nws wrote:
On Aug 1, 10:46 pm, neo <abhij...@operamail.com> wrote:
I do it in my office, rationalized talking does not work before such
dumb people to make it clear that their dumbness is fatal for other of
us. They just look at me strangly. They even say that they are always
ready to do their job, but they are 'new' (even after 20 years
service).
Got that?
ROTFLMAO.
They are smart enough to do what they are paid to do. If they are not
doing what they are supposed to do there is no obligation for the
company to keep paying them. There is no obligation that a company has
to hire specific people. If these people can't get jobs and make a
living they will probably not survive. It all matter to the person who
employs them and they are productive. If who they work for chooses not
top bail them out they can make a mistake and get fired.
Our survival depends on us being able to do the things we need to
survive in our environment. If people can't do that and we choose not
to take care of them they die.
If you have people that are dangerous, protect yourself and don't take
risks for them. How many offices are that dangerous? Unless it is some
other kind of shop that is called an office. If is a shop document the
unsafe acts and report it. The potential loss due to unsafe acts is
greater than their productivity so they should be fired based on their
competence.
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| User: "Nancy" |
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| Title: Re: Dumb People = Evil People. |
03 Aug 2007 11:38:18 PM |
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On 3-Aug-2007, JoeC <ncoic@us.army.mil> wrote:
Tera Free Nws wrote:
On Aug 1, 10:46 pm, neo <abhij...@operamail.com> wrote:
I do it in my office, rationalized talking does not work before such
dumb people to make it clear that their dumbness is fatal for other of
us. They just look at me strangly. They even say that they are always
ready to do their job, but they are 'new' (even after 20 years
service).
Got that?
ROTFLMAO.
They are smart enough to do what they are paid to do. If they are not
doing what they are supposed to do there is no obligation for the
company to keep paying them. There is no obligation that a company has
to hire specific people. If these people can't get jobs and make a
living they will probably not survive. It all matter to the person who
employs them and they are productive. If who they work for chooses not
top bail them out they can make a mistake and get fired.
Our survival depends on us being able to do the things we need to
survive in our environment. If people can't do that and we choose not
to take care of them they die.
If you have people that are dangerous, protect yourself and don't take
risks for them. How many offices are that dangerous? Unless it is some
other kind of shop that is called an office. If is a shop document the
unsafe acts and report it. The potential loss due to unsafe acts is
greater than their productivity so they should be fired based on their
competence.
So many parents forget to teach these
lessons to their children. They forget
that their main task is to prepare the kids
to survive and thrive in the world. Then, they
wonder why their offspring run into trouble.
n.
n.
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| User: "JoeC" |
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| Title: Re: Dumb People = Evil People. |
06 Aug 2007 10:19:51 AM |
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Nancy wrote:
On 3-Aug-2007, JoeC <ncoic@us.army.mil> wrote:
Tera Free Nws wrote:
On Aug 1, 10:46 pm, neo <abhij...@operamail.com> wrote:
I do it in my office, rationalized talking does not work before such
dumb people to make it clear that their dumbness is fatal for other of
us. They just look at me strangly. They even say that they are always
ready to do their job, but they are 'new' (even after 20 years
service).
Got that?
ROTFLMAO.
They are smart enough to do what they are paid to do. If they are not
doing what they are supposed to do there is no obligation for the
company to keep paying them. There is no obligation that a company has
to hire specific people. If these people can't get jobs and make a
living they will probably not survive. It all matter to the person who
employs them and they are productive. If who they work for chooses not
top bail them out they can make a mistake and get fired.
Our survival depends on us being able to do the things we need to
survive in our environment. If people can't do that and we choose not
to take care of them they die.
If you have people that are dangerous, protect yourself and don't take
risks for them. How many offices are that dangerous? Unless it is some
other kind of shop that is called an office. If is a shop document the
unsafe acts and report it. The potential loss due to unsafe acts is
greater than their productivity so they should be fired based on their
competence.
So many parents forget to teach these
lessons to their children. They forget
that their main task is to prepare the kids
to survive and thrive in the world. Then, they
wonder why their offspring run into trouble.
n.
Good point. I can say for experience that my parents did not do a great
job of preparing me. For the most part I had to figure out what was
wrong then what I should do about it. The point is we have intelligence
and can make choices to learn those things even if we are not taught by
our parents. If we live in a bad environment we don't have to
participate, we can opt out.
.
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| User: "V" |
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| Title: Re: Dumb People = Evil People. |
02 Aug 2007 06:14:41 PM |
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On Aug 1, 11:46?pm, neo <abhij...@operamail.com> wrote:
Carrie wrote:
"Robin" <miracle...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1186013534.477263.212680@e16g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
I'm NEVER going to see things in your way Gene, it just make
absolutely no sense to me, if you were really interested in changing
my mind you wouldn't approach me in such a adversarial way anyway. You
only interest is in being a big shot and making out that you know
something I don't. You are a bullshitter and so am I so stop trying to
***** a bullshitter...
Why would anyone want to change anyone's mind?
Because dumb people are equal to evil or insane people. They are
danger to people around them.
There are 10 employees of your rank who are supposed to have equal
capacity, intelligence, ability. 3 of them are dumb. They can't do
certain work and rest of 7 has to do their work.
There are always 2 options before 7 people.
1. Refuge to do work of 3 people and let them do their work. But that
work is related to job of cashier. These 3 people will surely suffer
financial loss every time which can be more than their salary. They
got wife, childrens, family to feed. Also they are so dumb, slow that
ultimately when rush increases, office will have to arrange second
person to handle the job.
2. Show mercy, humanity and do the work of these 3 people. That puts
rest of 7 employees under extra pressure with no benefit at all.
Why would anyone want to change mind of 3 employees?
Because they are not even aware that their dumbness is fatal for
others.
It is indeed fatal. Few days ago, two of 7 employees suffered heavy
loss and these 3 dumb people are behaving as if nothing happened.
And this situation applies to world outside. These dumb people are not
even aware that their dumb behaviour is fatal for peace of world.
These dumb people include that lee, maz, sheron, sheryl, robin, you
etc. They 'think' that they are spreading peace and love. But in the
eyes of other religions, they are spreading christianity and that
makes other people to hate them. What is wrong with muhammad,
siddharth, krishna etc. These dumb people always forget golden rule.
Step in shoes of others and look at yourself. If you feel hatred, what
you are doing is wrong. Step in shoes of buddhist and look at bible.
Why would you want to read bible if you have already mahayana teaching
same things. But no matter how rationally you talk, dumb atheist will
not understand it.
I do it in my office, rationalized talking does not work before such
dumb people to make it clear that their dumbness is fatal for other of
us. They just look at me strangly. They even say that they are always
ready to do their job, but they are 'new' (even after 20 years
service).
Got that?
Dumb People = Evil People???
No, absolutely not.
All you have to do is look at alt.atheism to prove that false.
Plenty of smart people that are evil as can be.
Always remember...academic smarts are not the same as peace smarts
I was discussing 'spiritual aspects of living' on various online
forums. One group was a dedicated atheists discussion list with most
members only offering bitter personal attacks instead of adding
anything substantive to the discussion.
But to be fair to these atheists, I've known many a religious fellow
that are just as bitter, if not more so, than atheists I meet. So just
being 'religious' is not a guarantee of being at peace.
Each man made religion contains perfection's as well as imperfections.
It is up to the practitioner or end user to use the tools in the right
way.
The problem is not the wisdom that is defective.
The problem lies with religious practitioners who are defective in
their practice of this wisdom.
The wisdom works - we don't work the wisdom.
Many times we are too busy for peace. As one atheist list member
wrote, 'It took awhile - far too long, really - but I've finally found
that one can find peace by simply being undisturbed."
Yes, peace is our birthright, if we are not destroying it by our own
actions. In order to slow down enough to be able to use peace as a
tool I needed to apply simplicity and renunciation to my life.
I am not an acetic or total renunciate by any means, but I did have to
let go of many peace destroying habits before making room for inner
peace to enter my life. As we get rid of one thing, it make room for
another thing to enter.
The online discussions based in bitterness brought up the question of
"what guiding light do atheists use to be at peace?"
Not much was offered in reply to my question. I got a few answers here
or there.
It seems whenever the discussion turns to 'inner peace' many of the
people I talk with are silent, this even goes for 'pious' Catholic
priests.
But, one fellow on the forum mentioned 'truth and philosophy,' as his
tools - both of these being good answers for peace generation with
proper application. Philosophy plays a big role in my life as well for
providing tools to live at peace.
I also supplement my spiritual path from many other sources as I will
go into below. I am only interested in practical application of
philosophy though and not bickering and arguing over the unanswerable.
So, I prefer truth based discussions over ego based discussions where
the truth gets overshadowed by rhetoric. As someone once wrote ... "if
you don't know the answer then just say so."
see:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=504.0
I was at a philosophy symposium last year and talked with a professor
about a teaching / mentor relationship he had with Ayn Rand.
He went on to say how after a year they broke up the mentor
relationship on a sour note. After I questioned the professor about
Rand's personal life as well as her state of inner peace and
happiness, I could see that with all her talents of 'smarts' she was
bankrupt when the subject turned to peace smarts, contentment and
happiness.
She was ego based and not practice based when it came to peace
generation.
Furthermore, she not only destroyed her peace, but from the
information that came out of our discussion, the then student's peace
was disturbed at the time and it still sounded disturbed decades later
as a distinguished professor and author. Academic smarts are not the
same as peace smarts.
The branch of philosophy that deals with the study of ethics and
virtue has also helped me along in life.
What is virtue and ethics?
Some authorities define it as 'excellence of the soul' or moral
excellence. (Although the Greeks thought of 'soul and form' in
different terms than say Christians think of soul. For example, the
soul of an eye would be its ability to 'see' and whether this ability
was good or bad would decide whether the soul of an eye had 'virtue'
or excellence.)
The concept for understanding virtue can be told in a story of the
'Ring of Gyges' or 'Myth of Gyges'. This story was taken from Plato's
Republic and recounts how the shepherd Gyges finds a ring on a hand
extending from a crack in the earth and removes the ring from the hand
and puts it on. Gyges discovers the magic ring gives him powers to be
invisible at will and then uses these powers to kill the king, rape
the queen and take over the kingdom. As James Allen tells us in "As A
Man Thinketh" - "Circumstances does not make the man - it reveals him
to himself"
What is virtuous behavior in a flourishing human being?
In readily understandable terms we can help define virtue for us from
this story of Gyges and by asking ourselves the question, "What would
we do if no one was looking or we knew we would not get caught?"
No heaven, no hell, no God, no karma, no police, nothing but us and
our virtue?
Would our actions promote our inner peace as well as the inner peace
of others or would our actions destroy our peace and the peace of
others?
Virtue is not learned from the classroom, other than memorizing
definitions. Remember, a fool can only say what he knows ~ it takes a
wise man to know what he says.
How do we become a success at living a virtuous life and really know
what we say?
As a lecture on Aristotle mentioned: "We are what we repeatedly do.
Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." We develop it by
practice. Practicing 'excellence of the human soul' is how.
Beside the philosophical studies of ethics and virtue, a Buddhist or
Taoist practice is another good peace developer for anyone to adopt
whether atheist, agnostic or believer.
Buddhists are generally not required to believe or not believe in God,
so anyone can make use of this philosophy irrespective of their
religious beliefs or lack thereof.
But be careful with your Buddhist studies if you decide to head in
this direction. For Buddhism is riddled with useless ego based dogma.
If you can sift through the useless as a freethinker and find the gems
you will do well.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=9.0
Personally, I've settled on the essence of Buddhism and that is what I
work on and find much peace with this type of simplified Buddhist
practice.
"The Three Pillars of Buddhism"
1- Practicing mindfulness and meditation to develop peace and self
awareness of our own true nature.
2- Accepting the liberating wisdom of impermanence and practicing non-
clinging and a lessening of craving and desires.
3- The development of compassion for others.
In addition to the three pillars, we can use the eightfold path to
guide us. Within the three pillars and the eightfold path are a
lifetime of practice.
No need to get lost in endless debate and spend your precious time in
idle talk that only serves to massage one's ego. Plenty of work to do
right here, right now, unless we prefer to keep our minds distracted
through our perpetual complexities we are so addicted to.
We do need to give some thought of the 'right' way to live as the
eightfold path tells us, so we should never try and be devoid of
thought in our lives, but instead look for a balance and let thought
serve us for once.
"The Eightfold Path"
1. Right View
2. Right Intention
3. Right Speech
4. Right Action
5. Right Livelihood
6. Right Effort
7. Right Mindfulness
8. Right Concentration
How can you differentiate right from wrong?
By peace.
You learn what destroys your peace and the peace of others as well as
what promotes you inner peace and the inner peace of others. Do you
need a teacher for that? Or the Pope to tell you? Or just listen to
peace as the best teacher?
The Five precepts are the 'commandments' more or less for Buddhists.
Although you are not commanded to do a thing. If you wish to live at
peace, then proceed the best you can - but it is your choice.
"The Five Precepts"
1. Refrain from Killing
2. Refrain from Stealing
3. Refrain from Sexual Misconduct
4. Refrain from False Speech
5. Refrain from the Use of Intoxicants
Once I am at peace, I can share with others about finding peace for
themselves, which is the secondary reason I practice.
I have no interest in practicing Buddhism for extinguishing
reincarnation. These "fear based" reasons for being a Buddhist are
not authentic or natural - the persons actions are based on fear or
negative consequences otherwise they would not do them. My actions are
based on inner peace and if I stray - there goes my peace - it is my
choice.
Remember what I wrote about above with the myth of Gyges?
Take away the fear of pain of karma or hell and you have a different
person?
A truly virtuous life remains the same irrespective of such fears and
is not based on them.
I enjoy life and realize that due to natural law, suffering comes
about as part of the process and I accept it as a fair trade off for
the privilege of living.
Buddhism helps makes this trade off of life and pain more in my favor
by lending me support to live a life at peace. I do not practice
Buddhism to earn merit for the next life - I practice Buddhism for my
own peace generation in THIS LIFE.
You see, once a religion requires faith, this is where I leave off
with it's teaching.
I only use the tools that can be applied in this life that can be
tested to yield peace.
Otherwise, if I succumb to fantasy notions I start heading towards the
road of delusion.
So whether it is heaven, hell, reincarnation or chanting 'Namo
Amitabha Buddha' for the Buddha to carry me off to the pure
land...none of this can be proven as fact and is just based on ego
based man and their fantasies.
Still, I am not shy about benefiting from any religious path that
offers tools for me to live at peace.
I take from ALL spiritual paths without prejudice, my only requirement
is that the religious or spiritual tool be one that offers peace. Any
tool always has to pass the peace test, this way it speaks of a
'higher authority' than just man made dogma - it speaks of universal
truth.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=470.0
But, this all has to be done in balance.
For there are many true things that are good - but done in excess they
become bad.
For, even though air and water give us life, they will also give us
death when in excess.
So always seek balance.
How flexible can you be when it comes to finding tools for living at
peace within the worlds spiritual paths?
Even though I am not a Muslim, I borrowed from the Muslim's prayer
schedule to use myself. The Muslims have a practice of praying five
times a day to Allah. For those that do not know, Allah is the same
God of the Jews and of the Old Testament that the Christians worship.
The Muslims pray at sun up, when the sun is at its zenith at noon,
when the sun is part way down in the afternoon, when the sun sets and
when they go to bed. Even though I am not a Muslim, I borrowed from
the Muslim's prayer schedule to use as a reminder to be mindful of
"gratitude" in my life.
If you do not want to develop a practice of gratitude, then what about
using it as a reminder 5 times a day to relax your breath, practice
mindfulness and bring your thoughts back to the present moment? When
you have come to a point of gratitude for being able to open your eyes
in the morning and being able to take a breath of air everything else
is just gravy so to speak. Gratitude plays an important part with
finding inner peace, just as being mindful of the present moment and
being aware of anything that causes this mindfulness to wander.
If I could define the basis of my spiritual practice it would be that
of peace and practicality. Inner peace is the foundation of it all,
for we cannot have world peace without first being at peace within. I
used to be a Catholic for many years of my life as well as a
freethinking Buddhist before becoming an agnostic freethinker.
See::
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=318.0
A few years ago a lady moderator on a Christian forum banned me for
claiming that God is peace, telling me "you don't know who God is."
Funny thing about the Christians. I was a Christian as well as a
freethinking Buddhist in my earlier life and 100% of the Christian
forums have banned me, and 95% of the Buddhist forums have also banned
me.
This says something about the Christians and Buddhists and whether
they practice what they preach? The Christians chanting the Golden
rule of Reciprocity and Charity and Humility? and the Buddhists
preaching Compassion, Do No Harm and Egoless Non-Self?
Why am I banned so much?
Is it for getting in fights or flame wars?
No...I get banned for writing about truth.
When someone disagrees with you, apply the law of opposites to get at
the truth.
This removes the personalities and focusses on the principles and
helps you see the entire picture.
If God is not peace, then God must be the opposite of peace...turmoil
and unrest.
I prefer to believe God is peace and God is the authority on the
subject of peace.
The difference between an authority and an authoritarian is this. An
authority speaks from a place of truth and such speaks as an
authority. Whereas an authoritarian rules by fear and not by truth.
For the truth stands on it own and the authoritarian stands on their
ego.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=343.0
The Buddhists have a set of rules they use to determine what are
definitive truths and what are not. This can also be applied to such
questions.
1) Do not rely on just the person but rely on the doctrine.
2) With respect to the doctrine, do not rely on just the words, but
rely on the meaning.
3) With respect to the meaning, do not rely on just meaning requiring
interpretation, but rely on meaning that is definitive.
4) With respect to definitive meaning, do not rely on just dualistic
understanding but rely on the wisdom of the direct perception of the
truth.
Bringing this worship business back to the topic of religion, do we
worship a higher power out of fear for if we do not worship this
higher power we will be killed?
Sounds like the aliens in an old "Superman" movies that came to earth
to tell us to bow down to them or else?
If there was a God or a higher power does this entity need us to 'bow
down' to a 'big ego' or does God need us to 'act right' to our
companions as well as to act right to ourselves?
Bowing down produces no peace, whether in the person that demands it
due to an over bloated ego, nor does it foster peace within the person
forced to worship against their will. But this is how man made
religions work - they are run by fear, greed and ego.
I prefer to be truth and peace based. Many think God is like 'Santa
Claus' and must come through with their demands, just as we did as
greedy children making up a long, impossible list for Santa to fill.
This smacks of the ego based practitioner.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=133.0
The ego based person prays thinking they know better than God does.
The truly spiritual based person prays for God's will and not their
own, for if they truly knew better than God...the practitioner would
be the God.
Nothing wrong with asking if one is a believer, but always end such
requests humbly with accepting Gods or a higher powers will with
gratitude.
Can you imagine if everyone's prayers were answered according to our
self centered and conflicting demands? The world would be in real
turmoil then.
No, I prefer to make the God of Peace and the God of Nature two Gods I
serve and as such my actions can be evaluated in simple terms of
bringing me in harmony with these two Gods or not.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=342.0
Many times we violate the three branches of laws that govern us and
constantly ask God or a higher power to give us 'hall passes' to avoid
the consequences of our actions. Such prayer is again ego based,
thinking we should have preference over the rest of the world for
wishing to be exempt from our actions
We are all governed by these three areas of laws.
1 - Natural Law
2 - Divine or spiritual law (if you believe in spiritual matters)
3 - Manmade laws
I find that sometime spiritual practitioners neglect the natural laws
that govern our bodies and suffer in this area from lack of living a
balanced life.
Some of us forget we are spiritual beings residing in physical bodies
living in physical world and governed my both spiritual and physical
or natural laws in addition to man made laws.
We need some effort with spiritual work and some effort in physical
work for a good balance. Some of us think we can defy man made laws as
well as divine or spiritual laws.
But no matter how defiant the person is...we all answer to natural
law. We all bow to nature in the end.
Anyway, you are free to think or not think of God or higher power as
you see fit. I am only a 'minor authority' on peace and do not wish to
be an authoritarian, so I allow freedom for all to think as they wish
and only ask the same courtesy be extended to me - reciprocity.
Psychologist William James once said, "A great many people believe
they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."
This applies to atheists as well as the religious or the pious. To
avoid prejudice, we have to be careful of 'black or white' absolutes
if you claim to truth based and not ego based in your beliefs. I work
to keep an open mind for all religions as well as those persons that
believe nothing.
When I discussed Christian principles one time an Atheist piped up to
say "the Christians have no principles," and "Jesus was a fabled
creation of the Christians."
When we sperate the personalities from the principles it makes looking
at things much easier. When I am referring to Christian principles I
speak of such things as charity, works of mercy and the golden rule,
where the emphasis is on principles and not on the personalities of
the church.
For even if Jesus was just created as a fable, these Christian
principles are universal truths in their own right if one desires to
live a life at peace and promote the inner peace of others in this
world. Is it any different from the Taoists following the legend of
Lao Tzu? Always look at what is said and not at who says what this
divorces the personalties and prejudice from your search for truth.
"The Corporal Works of Mercy"
To feed the hungry
To give drink to the thirsty
To clothe the naked
To harbour the harbourless
To visit the sick
To ransom the captive
To bury the dead
"The Spiritual Works of Mercy"
To instruct the ignorant
To counsel the doubtful
To admonish sinners
To bear wrongs patiently
To forgive offenses willingly
To comfort the afflicted
To pray for the living and the dead
You see, by applying the rule of reciprocity or rule of opposites we
can see if we were in these positions of the needy mentioned above, we
would like such charity bestowed on us for the most part. What about
our children, parents and loved ones? Wouldn't we wish the same for
them? We have no loved ones? What about our neighbors?
The Christian ethic says to treat one another as we would wish to be
treated. As we give ~ so we receive. Even if an atheist, as we give
peace - we receive inner peace as many of the tools I mentioned above
do not require belief in God, they only requirement is a desire to be
at peace and to bring peace to others. This is the Christian doctrine
in a nutshell, when we put principles before personalities.
As you instill seeds of peace within others you plant the same seeds
and water these seeds within you as well. As James Allen wrote in "As
a man Thinketh" ~ To think well of all, to be cheerful with all, to
patiently learn to find the good in all - such unselfish thoughts are
the very portals of heaven; and to dwell day by day in thoughts of
peace toward every creature will bring abounding peace to their
possessor."
This is universal truth that transcends man made religions.
Remember, we do not have to do it perfectly. Just look for direction
and forget perfection - for perfection or range is of the ego and form
is of the soul.
There are many tools for peace within the worlds spiritual paths, no
one said these paths are perfect, in fact, it was once said that
walking the spiritual path is akin to walking on a razors edge. But if
we bother to be honest, non prejudicial and to look, we can find tools
that can help us be at peace whether atheist, agnostic or believer.
In the Gnostic gospel of Thomas, it was reported:
"The disciples asked Jesus, when will the kingdom come? Jesus replied,
'The kingdom will not come by watching for it. It will not be said -
look here or look there. Rather, the kingdom of heaven is spread out
upon the earth and men do not see it."
What does this quote mean for the atheist as well as the religious
minded person?
For the atheist or as a nonbeliever of an afterlife:
THIS LIFE IS IT - This life is either heaven or hell as you make it.
Just grabbing all the gusto you can will not give you peace.
It requires much more than that - for greed is never satisfied by
attainment, it is only satisfied by contentment. We are reminded to be
mindful of each moment given to us and to be grateful for this life.
Being of service to others and charitable actions help lead us to
contentment and peace.
There are 3 components for a happy life: Contentment, love or
compassion and gratitude. When we realize that happiness and
contentment are there for the taking and that they are independent
from our circumstances it sometimes can sink in that there is nothing
stopping us from being content and happy this very instant.
It is your choice alone as to whether you make this life one of peace
for yourself and others or not, but in either case you will reap what
you sow. "Just as a life of virtue yields its own reward, a life of
vice yields its own punishment" - Plutarch
For the religious minded person and believer in an afterlife:
Jesus' saying will foreshadow things to come. For if we make this
earthly life hell for ourselves and others, we have a slim chance of
doing better in an afterlife. Just paying lip service to religious
principles and doing the opposite will not do it.
Again mindfulness of our actions is most important. An old Buddhist
saying sheds some light on our journey "when one eye is kept on the
destination, it only leaves one eye left for the journey." If we keep
fixated on the after life, and can't find peace in the present life,
we can lose sight of the fact that our actions can turn the present
moment in a living hell for us as well as others.
Actions speak louder than words and this especially applies to such
religious beliefs. By applying the rule of reciprocity and Christian
ethics and charity we have better chance at entering any afterlife and
in the interim help make this life a peaceful one for all that dwell
on earth.
So, whether you are on either end of this spectrum of beliefs, the
choices are the same as to the direction we take when it comes to
inner peace.
The seeds of enlightenment are all around us - we only have to seek
the truth and come to peace within to realize this.
A quote on finding peace from Thich Nhat Hanh
"There is no way to peace, peace is the way.
This means that we can realize peace right here in the present moment
with our look, our smile, our words and our actions.
Peace work in not a means, each step we take should be peace.
Every step we take should be joy.
Every step we take should be happiness.
Are you massaging Mother Earth every time your foot touches her?
Are you planting seeds of joy and peace?
Enlightenment, peace and joy will not be granted by someone else.
The well is within us and if we dig deeply in the present moment the
water will spring forth.
If we are determined, we can do it.
We don't need the future.
We can smile, breath fully and relax Everything we want is here in the
present moment.
Peace is every step.
Shall we continue our journey?"
Take care,
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
AA#2
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| User: "Midwinter" |
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| Title: Re: Dumb People = Evil People. |
03 Aug 2007 04:34:41 AM |
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V <vfr44@aol.com> wrote :
Dumb People = Evil People???
No, absolutely not.
All you have to do is look at alt.atheism to prove that false.
Not to mention any other newsgroup, or indeed any other community on
Earth.
I was discussing 'spiritual aspects of living' on various online
forums. One group was a dedicated atheists discussion list with most
members only offering bitter personal attacks instead of adding
anything substantive to the discussion.
Sure - there're many atheists out there who're just out-and-out angry and
will rant - blind - against anyone who doesn't immediately bow down and
do as they're told. We've all met them. We've all met their religious
equivalents, too.
But to be fair to these atheists, I've known many a religious fellow
that are just as bitter, if not more so, than atheists I meet. So just
being 'religious' is not a guarantee of being at peace.
Very true - although I've never known you overly concerned with being
'fair to atheists' before. Maybe you're mellowing?
Each man made religion contains perfection's as well as imperfections.
Tiny point, I know, but I don't think something can 'contain
perfections', can it? An imperfection is something in an item that makes
the item imperfect - but I don't think something that's imperfect in the
first place is usually referred to as containing 'perfections'.
I may be wrong; and even so, your point is clear enough.
It seems whenever the discussion turns to 'inner peace' many of the
people I talk with are silent, this even goes for 'pious' Catholic
priests.
I'd imagine the problem there is that while you frequently - almost
constantly - lecture on 'inner peace', you consistently fail to
demonstrate it. There is an expression in Britain: "all mouth and no
trousers".
This is highlighted by the fact that you feel the need to assert yourself
on Usenet (a meaningless and trivial forum if ever there was one) and get
into arguments with people. Now, I know I do the same - but I don't
claim to have found inner peace, you see.
Oh, and there's also the continuing matter of that fraudulent AA number
you've awarded yourself. Someone who'd found inner peace would have no
use for such frippery, much less cling to it as you do.
see:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=504.0
It's interesting that the forums on jesusneverexisted.org are the source
you cite most often. One might almost imagine that your wisdom, your
positivity and your inner peace are born of a desire to oppose someone
else's belief.
I was at a philosophy symposium last year and talked with a professor
about a teaching / mentor relationship he had with Ayn Rand.
He went on to say how after a year they broke up the mentor
relationship on a sour note.
And what business did this supposed professor have in discussing his
other students with you?
Either this professor was the very definition of unethical, or - and I'm
tending towards this explanation, to be frank - you've made up this
exchange.
What is virtue and ethics?
Well, for a start, it involves respecting other people's confidentiality.
Now, with regard to your exchange with this postulated professor, there
were two unethical people involved: him, for discussing the private lives
of his students with others; and you, for listening and asking questions.
No heaven, no hell, no God, no karma, no police, nothing but us and
our virtue?
It'd be nice, wouldn't it? And wouldn't it be lovely if we didn't need
to have police to keep us in line? I wonder, though, how long it would
be before certain people started thinking how much wiser and more
enlightened they were than the others, and wondering whether they
shouldn't start exerting control over them? Purely for the Greater Good,
of course.
You know, that's funny, because... well, don't *you* imagine yourself a
beacon of wisdom in the darkness, V?
Virtue is not learned from the classroom, other than memorizing
definitions.
Virtue *is* learned, though, because there is no universal morality that
tends us towards certain standards.
For Buddhism is riddled with useless ego based dogma.
How easily you dismiss thousands of years of spiritual thought, V. It
must be a good view from up there.
Why am I banned so much?
Is it for getting in fights or flame wars?
No...I get banned for writing about truth.
No, V - you get banned because you rile people. And you rile people
because you strut around pretending you're the pinnacle of sagacity, yet
you can't accept it when people point out your flaws (and when you set
yourself up as flawless, people will be only too happy to show why you're
not).
In short, you're so far up yourself it's amazing you don't pop out of
existence. That tends to get people's goats.
Some of us forget we are spiritual beings residing in physical bodies
Some forget it. Some simply don't believe it.
Anyway, you are free to think or not think of God or higher power as
you see fit. I am only a 'minor authority' on peace
So you do consider yourself an authority on the subject.
The thing is, you do actually quote a lot of sense. 'Quote', that is.
The sources from which your lectures stem - be it Buddhism, Christianity,
Taoism or any number of other religious and non-religious philosophical
schools - all have much to contribute. And even you yourself
occasionally drift alongside good sense from time to time. But then you
go and blow it all. And here's why:
Firstly, Usenet's a pretty limited forum. Yes, sure, there may be
hundreds or thousands of people in any given newsgroup - but there're
billions in the world Out There. If I thought I truly had the answers to
man's problems of 'inner peace', I'd be out in the real world telling
people about it; not skulking around in Usenet.
Second, if I was possessed of inner peace, I can't see it'd matter all
that much to me what anyone else thought of me - so I don't think I'd
spend too much time arguing the toss about it. I'd probably just say my
piece and leave it at that. I certainly don't think I'd have boilerplate
sermons stored ready for repeated use.
And finally, if I had inner peace, I don't think I'd need to do any of
this:
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
AA#2
I might give my name, perhaps. I have no idea why you feel the need to
state your sex - what earthly relevance does it have here? I certainly
wouldn't feel the need to bind myself by applying labels to my
philosophical position - and I wouldn't call myself 'agnostic' if every
post I was going to make was lecturing others on the nature of God and
religion. 'Agnostic' means 'not known' or 'doesn't know' - it's someone
who doesn't commit themselves on religious matters because they admit
they just don't know. It's one of the more rational points of view with
regard to religion - but it's misleading to claim that position when
clearly you think you DO know.
As for 'practical philosopher', well, you might be that - but the
question has to be asked: what do you actually do that's practical? As
opposed to lecturing on Usenet, which is the very antithesis of
'practical'?
And then, of course, we're back to your infamous fake AA number. Awarded
to you by yourself, you claim the right to that number because, I recall,
alt.atheism wouldn't give you one of theirs. And indeed it's utterly
bizarre that you would expect them to do so when clearly you're not an
atheist, and in fact spend much of your time slagging them off. But they
wouldn't give you a number, so you took one. Which action was
irrational, obsessive, petty, and self-absorbed. Hardly characteristics
I'd associate with someone possessed of 'inner peace'.
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| User: "skyeyes" |
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| Title: Re: Dumb People = Evil People. |
03 Aug 2007 01:19:35 PM |
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On Aug 3, 2:34 am, Midwinter <midwinte...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
<Snippage>
I'd imagine the problem there is that while you frequently - almost
constantly - lecture on 'inner peace', you consistently fail to
demonstrate it. There is an expression in Britain: "all mouth and no
trousers".
Or as we say out here in the Wild West, "He's all hat and no
cattle."
;->
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
skyeyes at dakotacom dot net
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| User: "Robin" |
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| Title: Re: Dumb People = Evil People. |
03 Aug 2007 01:29:59 PM |
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On Aug 3, 11:19 am, skyeyes <skye...@dakotacom.net> wrote:
On Aug 3, 2:34 am, Midwinter <midwinte...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
<Snippage>
I'd imagine the problem there is that while you frequently - almost
constantly - lecture on 'inner peace', you consistently fail to
demonstrate it. There is an expression in Britain: "all mouth and no
trousers".
Or as we say out here in the Wild West, "He's all hat and no
cattle."
;->
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
skyeyes at dakotacom dot net
LOLOL :) Sweet... Who the lecturer BTW???
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| User: "ZerkonX" |
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| Title: Re: Dumb People = Evil People. |
05 Aug 2007 09:01:01 AM |
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On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 03:46:43 +0000, neo wrote:
Because dumb people are equal to evil or insane people.
Is this supposed to be smart?
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| User: "buddhapest" |
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| Title: Re: Dumby People = Evil People. |
05 Aug 2007 09:16:32 AM |
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"ZerkonX" <ZERKON@zerkonx.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.08.05.14.00.58.283665@zerkonx.net...
On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 03:46:43 +0000, neo wrote:
Because dumb people are equal to evil or insane people.
Is this supposed to be smart?
depends on your level of smarts to
begin with. an extremely dumb *****
might think that it's smart. in the throes
of basic elemental nature no smarts
wax and wane but mix up these
elements in form and all of a sudden
somewhere somehow those combinations
have effulged ideas like smart and dumb.
how evil is that?
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