| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
16 Jun 2005 07:06:16 AM |
| Object: |
Early Presidents Not Religious |
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/adams.htm
[At the bottom]
Wilson: Early Presidents Not Religious
"The founders of our nation were nearly all Infidels, and that of the
presidents who had thus far been elected [Washington; Adams; Jefferson;
Madison; Monroe; Adams; Jackson] not a one had professed a belief in
Christianity....
"Among all our presidents from Washington downward, not one was a
professor of religion, at least not of more than Unitarianism."
-- The Reverend Doctor Bird Wilson, an Episcopal minister in Albany,
New York, in a sermon preached in October, 1831. One might expect a modern
defender of the Evangelical to play with the meaning of "Christianity,"
making it refer only to a specific brand of orthodoxy, first sentence
quoted in John E. Remsberg, "Six Historic Americans," second sentence
quoted in Paul F. Boller, George Washington & Religion, pp. 14-15
**************************************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and the discussion group for the above site listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members]
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
"Dedicated to combatting 'history by sound bite'."
Now including a re-publication of Tom Peters
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE HOME PAGE
and
Audio links to Supreme Court oral arguments and
Speech by civil rights/constitutional lawyer and others.
This site is a member of the following web rings:
Freethought Ring--&--Freethought, Religion & Beliefs Ring
The First Amendment Ring--&--The Church-State Ring
American History WebRing--&--The History Ring
Let Freedom Ring--&--Religious Freedom Ring
Law Issues Ring--&--Legal Research Ring
****************************************************************
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| User: "Dana" |
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| Title: Re: Early Presidents Not Religious |
16 Jun 2005 07:30:12 AM |
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<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:2pq2b1tfillr398l2mi7sqv9cigg3cvbab@4ax.com...
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/adams.htm
[At the bottom]
Wilson: Early Presidents Not Religious
Washington and the other early presidents would say you are lying.
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| User: "RobH" |
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| Title: Re: Early Presidents Not Religious |
16 Jun 2005 08:20:03 AM |
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"Dana" <whoya@whoya.com> wrote in news:11b2s365e64sld8@corp.supernews.com:
<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:2pq2b1tfillr398l2mi7sqv9cigg3cvbab@4ax.com...
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/adams.htm
[At the bottom]
Wilson: Early Presidents Not Religious
Washington and the other early presidents would say you are lying.
Historian Barry Schwartz writes: "George Washington's practice of
Christianity was limited and superficial because he was not himself a
Christian... He repeatedly declined the church's sacraments. Never did he
take communion, and when his wife, Martha, did, he waited for her outside
the sanctuary... Even on his deathbed, Washington asked for no ritual,
uttered no prayer to Christ, and expressed no wish to be attended by His
representative." [New York Press, 1987, pp. 174-175]
Paul F. Boller states in is anthology on Washington: "There is no mention
of Jesus Christ anywhere in his extensive correspondence." [Dallas:
Southern Methodist University Press, 1963, pp. 14-15]
"Gouverneur Morris had often told me that General Washington believed no
more of that system (Christianity) than did he himself."
Thomas Jefferson
-in his private journal, Feb. 1800
"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature."
Thomas Jefferson
"Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the Common Law."
Thomas Jefferson
-letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, 1814
"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature."
Thomas Jefferson
"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion
in it."
John Adams
"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But
how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been
blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the
most bloody religion that ever existed?"
John Adams
-letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816
"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of
Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all
places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the
laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
James Madison
1785
"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on
society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny
on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen
upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been
the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert
the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient
auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it,
needs them not."
James Madison
1785
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| User: "nJb" |
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| Title: Re: Early Presidents Not Religious |
16 Jun 2005 11:37:18 PM |
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Dana wrote:
<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:2pq2b1tfillr398l2mi7sqv9cigg3cvbab@4ax.com...
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/adams.htm
[At the bottom]
Wilson: Early Presidents Not Religious
Washington and the other early presidents would say you are lying.
Washington wouldn't have any comment.
--
Jack
Plonked by Native American
bobo1148atxmissiondotcom
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/xmissionbobo/
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| User: "Marvin" |
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| Title: Re: Early Presidents Not Religious |
16 Jun 2005 07:56:49 AM |
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<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:2pq2b1tfillr398l2mi7sqv9cigg3cvbab@4ax.com...
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/adams.htm
[At the bottom]
Wilson: Early Presidents Not Religious
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and
State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and the discussion group for the above site listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[snipped text, left links]
Another good source is Susan Jacoby's _Freethinkers: A History
of American Secularism_ (2004). It's a calm, well reasoned,
well documented book that would be worth the time to read much
more carefully than I have the energy to do. Since my
retirement I tend to do almost all of my reading for
enjoyment, and while it's enjoyable to read about the wisdom
of the founders of the US, the subsequent pulses of "spiritual
reawakening" and resurgence of what passes for values among
religious folk can be absolutely depressing.
Marvin Doolin
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| User: "Dana" |
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| Title: Re: Early Presidents Not Religious |
16 Jun 2005 09:51:04 AM |
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"Marvin" <marvin2@FOGstarband.net> wrote in message
news:2ddef$42b15594$943fe1b6$5832@STARBAND.NET...
<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:2pq2b1tfillr398l2mi7sqv9cigg3cvbab@4ax.com...
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/adams.htm
[At the bottom]
Wilson: Early Presidents Not Religious
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and
State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and the discussion group for the above site listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[snipped text, left links]
Another good source is Susan Jacoby's _Freethinkers:
Atheists are not free thinkers.
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Early Presidents Not Religious |
16 Jun 2005 10:10:37 AM |
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"Dana" <whoya@whoya.com> wrote in message
news:11b34b7lgacm95a@corp.supernews.com...
"Marvin" <marvin2@FOGstarband.net> wrote in message
news:2ddef$42b15594$943fe1b6$5832@STARBAND.NET...
<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:2pq2b1tfillr398l2mi7sqv9cigg3cvbab@4ax.com...
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/adams.htm
[At the bottom]
Wilson: Early Presidents Not Religious
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and
State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and the discussion group for the above site listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[snipped text, left links]
Another good source is Susan Jacoby's _Freethinkers:
Atheists are not free thinkers.
Granted I try to limit what I believe to what evidence forces me to believe.
My belief is imprisoned by reality.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
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| User: "Rich Travsky " |
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| Title: Re: Early Presidents Not Religious |
18 Jun 2005 11:27:17 PM |
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Dana wrote:
"Marvin" <marvin2@FOGstarband.net> wrote in message
news:2ddef$42b15594$943fe1b6$5832@STARBAND.NET...
<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:2pq2b1tfillr398l2mi7sqv9cigg3cvbab@4ax.com...
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/adams.htm
[At the bottom]
Wilson: Early Presidents Not Religious
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and
State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and the discussion group for the above site listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[snipped text, left links]
Another good source is Susan Jacoby's _Freethinkers:
Atheists are not free thinkers.
They have more more claim to being such than someone hamstrung by
a religion.
That's why religions have defined heresies...
RT
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| User: "nJb" |
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| Title: Re: Early Presidents Not Religious |
16 Jun 2005 11:38:34 PM |
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Dana wrote:
"Marvin" <marvin2@FOGstarband.net> wrote in message
news:2ddef$42b15594$943fe1b6$5832@STARBAND.NET...
<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:2pq2b1tfillr398l2mi7sqv9cigg3cvbab@4ax.com...
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/adams.htm
[At the bottom]
Wilson: Early Presidents Not Religious
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and
State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and the discussion group for the above site listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[snipped text, left links]
Another good source is Susan Jacoby's _Freethinkers:
Atheists are not free thinkers.
Perhaps not. but unlike you, they think.
--
Jack
Plonked by Native American
bobo1148atxmissiondotcom
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/xmissionbobo/
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: Early Presidents Not Religious |
16 Jun 2005 10:13:56 AM |
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In article <11b34b7lgacm95a@corp.supernews.com> "Dana" <whoya@whoya.com> writes:
"Marvin" <marvin2@FOGstarband.net> wrote in message
news:2ddef$42b15594$943fe1b6$5832@STARBAND.NET...
<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:2pq2b1tfillr398l2mi7sqv9cigg3cvbab@4ax.com...
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/adams.htm
[At the bottom]
Wilson: Early Presidents Not Religious
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and
State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and the discussion group for the above site listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[snipped text, left links]
Another good source is Susan Jacoby's _Freethinkers:
Atheists are not free thinkers.
"not free thinkers" is exactly why we'uns get the big bucks --
you know: scientists, engineers, doctors, programmers; the sort
who alway rank low on polls of religious belief and who
incidentally also get paid a lot, just to think.
-- cary
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| User: "Lars Eighner" |
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| Title: Re: Early Presidents Not Religious |
16 Jun 2005 04:05:05 PM |
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In our last episode, <11b34b7lgacm95a@corp.supernews.com>, the
lovely and talented Dana broadcast on alt.atheism:
Atheists are not free thinkers.
This from someone who claimed the blind body of Terri Shaivo was
reacting to visual stimuli. You must wake up every morning
wondering what new lie you will come up with that day.
--
Lars Eighner http://www.larseighner.com/
"We have no opinion on your Arab - Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with
Kuwait." -- Bush's Ambassador April Glaspie, giving Saddam Hussein
the greenlight to invade Kuwait.
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| User: "nJb" |
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| Title: Re: Early Presidents Not Religious |
16 Jun 2005 11:39:57 PM |
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Lars Eighner wrote:
In our last episode, <11b34b7lgacm95a@corp.supernews.com>, the
lovely and talented Dana broadcast on alt.atheism:
Atheists are not free thinkers.
This from someone who claimed the blind body of Terri Shaivo was
reacting to visual stimuli. You must wake up every morning
wondering what new lie you will come up with that day.
I think it wakes up to Rush Limbaugh.
--
Jack
Plonked by Native American
bobo1148atxmissiondotcom
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/xmissionbobo/
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| User: "Socialists are Miserable Thieves" |
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| Title: Re: Early Presidents Not Religious |
16 Jun 2005 06:51:32 PM |
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On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 06:51:04 -0800, "Dana" <whoya@whoya.com> wrote:
"Marvin" <marvin2@FOGstarband.net> wrote in message
news:2ddef$42b15594$943fe1b6$5832@STARBAND.NET...
<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:2pq2b1tfillr398l2mi7sqv9cigg3cvbab@4ax.com...
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/adams.htm
[At the bottom]
Wilson: Early Presidents Not Religious
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and
State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and the discussion group for the above site listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[snipped text, left links]
Another good source is Susan Jacoby's _Freethinkers:
Atheists are not free thinkers.
Exactly, which sacred book do atheists get their wisdom, Miss?
--
"A society that robs an individual of the product of his
effort... is... a mob held together by institutionalized
gang rule." -- Ayn Rand
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Early Presidents Not Religious |
16 Jun 2005 08:10:14 AM |
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"Marvin" <marvin2@FOGstarband.net> wrote:
:|
:|<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
:|news:2pq2b1tfillr398l2mi7sqv9cigg3cvbab@4ax.com...
:|> http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/adams.htm
:|> [At the bottom]
:|>
:|> Wilson: Early Presidents Not Religious
:|> The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and
:|State
:|> http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
:|>
:|> [and the discussion group for the above site listed below]
:|>
:|> HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads SepChurch&State
:|> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
:|>
:|> THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
:|> SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
:|>
:|> http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
:|>
:|[snipped text, left links]
:|
:|Another good source is Susan Jacoby's _Freethinkers: A History
:|of American Secularism_ (2004). It's a calm, well reasoned,
:|well documented book that would be worth the time to read much
:|more carefully than I have the energy to do.
I have the book, read the book
:|Since my
:|retirement I tend to do almost all of my reading for
:|enjoyment, and while it's enjoyable to read about the wisdom
:|of the founders of the US, the subsequent pulses of "spiritual
:|reawakening" and resurgence of what passes for values among
:|religious folk can be absolutely depressing.
:|
:|Marvin Doolin
Kewl, the Dominions/threocrats/theocons thank you.
.
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