Easter, My White, Hairy Keister.

Religions > Atheism > Easter, My White, Hairy Keister.

LINK TO THIS PAGE

rating : 0 | 0

Page 1 of 1

Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"quibbler"
Date:	16 Apr 2006 05:47:28 PM
Object:	Easter, My White, Hairy Keister.

Does anyone honestly believe that pagan Easter, deriving from the goddess
Ishtar or Astarte has one fucking thing to do with Xianity? Why the *****
did they call it Easter, as opposed to something relevant to the
ridiculous resurrection myth which it's supposed to represent. The
Easter holiday is an even bigger fraud than the balance of the crap
scribbled in the xian gospel.
--
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
.

User: "NoMo"
Title: Re: Easter, My White, Hairy Keister.	17 Apr 2006 12:42:15 AM

"quibbler" <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1eac776ecb4657e4989926@news.readfreenews.net...

Does anyone honestly believe that pagan Easter, deriving from the goddess
Ishtar or Astarte has one fucking thing to do with Xianity? Why the *****
did they call it Easter

<snip>
I think you're referring to Eostre--the Anglo-Saxon goddess.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eostre
And another poster discussed the early-Christian custom of grafting rites
onto known pagan holidays.
Cheers
.

User: "quibbler"
Title: Re: Easter, My White, Hairy Keister.	17 Apr 2006 10:24:16 AM

In article <XUF0g.3894$BS2.273@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
nothere@earthlink.net says...

"quibbler" <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1eac776ecb4657e4989926@news.readfreenews.net...

Does anyone honestly believe that pagan Easter, deriving from the goddess
Ishtar or Astarte has one fucking thing to do with Xianity? Why the *****
did they call it Easter

<snip>

I think you're referring to Eostre--the Anglo-Saxon goddess.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eostre

I'm well aware of this conjecture popularized by Bede, although it
doesn't explain much of the symbolism like the Ishtar/Astarte reference
does. Furthermore, it doesn't explain why xians decided to keep the name
Easter. Yes, another poster mentioned that xians shoplifted the holidays
of other religions. But at least they changed the name of Saturnalia to
Christmas. In this case, they were too lazy to even change the name and
that's what I'm inquiring about. How could they be that lazy and think
that they would get away with it long term? They left way too big a
"paper trail" in this case.

--
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
.

User: "Robibnikoff"
Title: Re: Easter, My White, Hairy Keister.	17 Apr 2006 10:25:07 AM

"quibbler" <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1eac776ecb4657e4989926@news.readfreenews.net...

Hey, it's just an excuse to allow your kid to OD on chocolate bunnies, Peeps
and jelly beans.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
Atheist ***** Extraordinaire
#1557
.

User: "Hugh Gibbons"
Title: Re: Easter, My White, Hairy Keister.	19 Apr 2006 09:23:41 AM

In article <4ahq63Fss1lmU1@individual.net>,
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:

"quibbler" <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1eac776ecb4657e4989926@news.readfreenews.net...

Hey, it's just an excuse to allow your kid to OD on chocolate bunnies, Peeps
and jelly beans.

You're both clueless. Christian Easter (the holiday, practices
and beliefs) are derived from a combination of what happened
to Jesus and the ancient Jewish Passover tradition. The Easter
tradition was well-established before English-speaking Pagans
got ahold of it and added on the eggs-and-bunnies trappings
and slapped their name on it because it aligned to their
holiday on the calendar.
.

User: "Robibnikoff"
Title: Re: Easter, My White, Hairy Keister.	19 Apr 2006 10:14:56 AM

"Hugh Gibbons" <party@myhouse.com> wrote in message
news:party-ADC0D4.09234019042006@news-fe-01.texas.rr.com...

In article <4ahq63Fss1lmU1@individual.net>,
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:

"quibbler" <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1eac776ecb4657e4989926@news.readfreenews.net...

Hey, it's just an excuse to allow your kid to OD on chocolate bunnies,
Peeps
and jelly beans.

Oh *****. Grow up and learn something.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
Atheist ***** Extraordinaire
#1557
.

User: "Hugh Gibbons"
Title: Re: Easter, My White, Hairy Keister.	19 Apr 2006 11:29:38 AM

In article <4an2auFtma93U1@individual.net>,
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:

"Hugh Gibbons" <party@myhouse.com> wrote in message
news:party-ADC0D4.09234019042006@news-fe-01.texas.rr.com...

In article <4ahq63Fss1lmU1@individual.net>,
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:

"quibbler" <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1eac776ecb4657e4989926@news.readfreenews.net...

Hey, it's just an excuse to allow your kid to OD on chocolate bunnies,
Peeps
and jelly beans.

Oh *****. Grow up and learn something.

You appear to be believing in a neo-pagan alternate history which
has only the most tenuous relationship to historical facts. Anybody
who thinks Easter is not derived directly from Passover is ignoring
a lot of very well-established and copiously documented facts.
.

User: "Robibnikoff"
Title: Re: Easter, My White, Hairy Keister.	19 Apr 2006 02:18:02 PM

"Hugh Gibbons" <party@myhouse.com> wrote in message
news:party-1BDA7F.11293719042006@news-fe-01.texas.rr.com...

In article <4an2auFtma93U1@individual.net>,
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:

"Hugh Gibbons" <party@myhouse.com> wrote in message
news:party-ADC0D4.09234019042006@news-fe-01.texas.rr.com...

In article <4ahq63Fss1lmU1@individual.net>,
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:

"quibbler" <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1eac776ecb4657e4989926@news.readfreenews.net...

Hey, it's just an excuse to allow your kid to OD on chocolate bunnies,
Peeps
and jelly beans.

Oh *****. Grow up and learn something.

Uh huh, right. Whatever you say.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
Atheist ***** Extraordinaire
#1557
.

User: ""
Title: Re: Easter, My White, Hairy Keister.	19 Apr 2006 01:35:28 PM

In <party-1BDA7F.11293719042006@news-fe-01.texas.rr.com>, on 04/19/06
at 04:29 PM, Hugh Gibbons <party@myhouse.com> said:
Followups set to AA only

In article <4an2auFtma93U1@individual.net>,
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:

"Hugh Gibbons" <party@myhouse.com> wrote in message
news:party-ADC0D4.09234019042006@news-fe-01.texas.rr.com...

In article <4ahq63Fss1lmU1@individual.net>,
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:

"quibbler" <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1eac776ecb4657e4989926@news.readfreenews.net...

snip

Oh *****. Grow up and learn something.

You appear to be believing in a neo-pagan alternate history which has
only the most tenuous relationship to historical facts. Anybody who
thinks Easter is not derived directly from Passover is ignoring a lot of
very well-established and copiously documented facts.

So clue me in with credible material written by scholars that work in
academia[1]. Of course, that means no apologetics & that pretty much will
eliminate your claimed sources.
I want you to know that I would be willing to give up a week old chew of
twist tobacco for the information. Being it won't be forthcoming, that
used chew is safe.
walksalone who suspects that Hugh does not know how many atheists here
were xian, or how many have studied the gods, & he could care less. But
without that information, Hugh is just pissing upwind.
--
Nothing so completely baffles one who is full of trick and duplicity
himself, than straightforward and simple integrity in another.
Charles Caleb Colton, author and clergyman (1780-1832)
.

User: "Hugh Gibbons"
Title: Re: Easter, My White, Hairy Keister.	19 Apr 2006 03:27:05 PM

In article <44468429$1$jnyxfnybar$mr2ice@news.individual.net>,

wrote:

In <party-1BDA7F.11293719042006@news-fe-01.texas.rr.com>, on 04/19/06
at 04:29 PM, Hugh Gibbons <party@myhouse.com> said:

Followups set to AA only

In article <4an2auFtma93U1@individual.net>,
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:

"Hugh Gibbons" <party@myhouse.com> wrote in message
news:party-ADC0D4.09234019042006@news-fe-01.texas.rr.com...

In article <4ahq63Fss1lmU1@individual.net>,
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:

"quibbler" <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1eac776ecb4657e4989926@news.readfreenews.net...

snip

Oh *****. Grow up and learn something.

You appear to be believing in a neo-pagan alternate history which has
only the most tenuous relationship to historical facts. Anybody who
thinks Easter is not derived directly from Passover is ignoring a lot of
very well-established and copiously documented facts.

So clue me in with credible material written by scholars that work in
academia[1]. Of course, that means no apologetics & that pretty much will
eliminate your claimed sources.

I want you to know that I would be willing to give up a week old chew of
twist tobacco for the information. Being it won't be forthcoming, that
used chew is safe.

walksalone who suspects that Hugh does not know how many atheists here
were xian, or how many have studied the gods, & he could care less. But
without that information, Hugh is just pissing upwind.

This has nothing to do with whether you're atheist or whatever. It's
about the historical roots of religious practice.
Now I'll grant you, the eggs and many other details didn't come from
Jewish tradition. They are accretions taken from pagan practice. and
are just dressing on Easter. Saying that the practice of an Easter
holiday comes from pagan origins because of the English name or the
bunnies or eggs or lighting of candles comes from a pagan source is
saying the Titanic originated on the bottom of the Atlantic because you
found barnacles on the hull.
The relevant historical materials are manuscripts describing Paschal
practices. These were written by Christian apologists. By explicitly
disallowing them, you are negating the possibility of establishing
an early date for the existence of the Paschal holiday. Yet the earliest
documents recording Christian beliefs and practices (i.e. gospels and
the letters of the evangelists) closely link the events celebrated at
Easter to the Passover. From the very beginning, Christians were
conscious of these links, and in the earliest times, Christians
considered themselves to be following the Jewish religion while being
followers of Jesus. Certainly, it was established as a feast celebrated
by many Christians sometime in the 2nd century. The proper date for
its celebration was the subject of controversy from at latest the third
century until it was settled (for most) at the Council of Nicea in 325.
.

User: ""
Title: Re: Easter, My White, Hairy Keister.	20 Apr 2006 07:16:20 AM

In <party-4BD3ED.15270419042006@news-fe-01.texas.rr.com>, on 04/19/06
at 08:27 PM, Hugh Gibbons <party@myhouse.com> said:
Followup set to AA, the only group in the headers I read.

In article <44468429$1$jnyxfnybar$mr2ice@news.individual.net>,
walksalone@dastardly.dirty.deeds.done.dirt.cheap wrote:

In <party-1BDA7F.11293719042006@news-fe-01.texas.rr.com>, on 04/19/06
at 04:29 PM, Hugh Gibbons <party@myhouse.com> said:

Followups set to AA only

snip including prior headers.

Oh *****. Grow up and learn something.

You appear to be believing in a neo-pagan alternate history which has
only the most tenuous relationship to historical facts. Anybody who
thinks Easter is not derived directly from Passover is ignoring a lot of
very well-established and copiously documented facts.

walksalone who suspects that Hugh does not know how many atheists here
were xian, or how many have studied the gods, & he could care less. But
without that information, Hugh is just pissing upwind.

This has nothing to do with whether you're atheist or whatever. It's
about the historical roots of religious practice.

Which, in the case of Easter, is ancient indeed. From the religious
tolerance web site.
The Spring Equinox is also known as: Alban Eilir, Eostar, Eostre, Feast of
Annunciation of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Festival of Trees, Lady Day,
NawRuz, No Ruz, Ostara, Ostra, Rites of Spring, and the Vernal Equinox.
Overview:
Religious followers from around the world observe many seasonal days of
celebration during March and April. Most are religious holy days, and are
linked in some way to the spring or vernal equinox. On that day, the
daytime and nighttime hours are approximately equal -- each being 12 hours
long.
Christianity and other religions associate three themes with the vernal
equinox:
Conception and pregnancy leading to birth on the winter solstice.
Victory of a god of light (or life, rebirth, resurrection) over the
powers of darkness (death).
The descent of the goddess or god into the underworld for a period of
three days. This is such a popular theme among religions that mythologists
refer to it as "the harrowing of Hell." 13
People view other religions in various ways, and thus treat the
celebrations of other faiths differently:
Some people value the worldwide variety of March and April celebrations,
because they demonstrate the diversity of religious belief within our
common humanity. They respect both their own religious traditions and
those of other faiths for their ability to inspire people to lead more
ethical and fulfilled lives. Religious diversity is, to them, a positive
influence.
Others reject the importance of all celebrations other than the holy days
recognized by their own religion. Some go so far as rejecting some of
their religion's holy days when they are discovered to have Pagan origins
(e.g. Easter and Christmas).
Some consider religions other than their own as being inspired by Satan.
Thus the equinox celebrations of other religions are viewed as Satanic in
origin, and intrinsically evil.
When and why the vernal equinox happens:
The seasons of the year are caused by the 23.5� tilt of the earth's axis.
Because the earth is rotating like a top or gyroscope, it points in a
fixed direction continuously -- towards a point in space near the North
Star. But the earth is also revolving around the sun. During half of the
year, the southern hemisphere is more exposed to the sun than is the
northern hemisphere. During the rest of the year, the reverse is true. At
noontime in the Northern Hemisphere the sun appears high in the sky during
summertime and low in the sky during winter. The time of the year when the
sun reaches its maximum elevation occurs on the day with the greatest
number of daylight hours. This is called the summer solstice, and is
typically JUN-21 -- the first day of summer. The lowest elevation occurs
about DEC-21 and is the winter solstice -- the first day of winter, when
the night time hours are maximum. Almost exactly half-way between the
winter and summer solstice is the time of the vernal or spring equinox. It
is one of two times during the year when the daytime and nighttime are
almost exactly 12 hours long, and very close to being equal to each other.
History of the spring equinox:
The early Romans used a lunar calendar in which months alternated between
29 and 30 days. It was not a precise measure; it gradually fell out of
step with the seasons. Julius Caesar reformed the calendar by switching
its base from lunar to solar. The day on which the vernal equinox occurred
was defined as MAR-25. The length of the year was fixed at 365 days, with
an additional leap-year day added every fourth year. This made the average
length of a year equal to 365.25 days, which was fairly close to the
actual value of 365.2422 days.
The annual error of 0.0078 days accumulated over time until it became
unmanageable. A second reform of the calendar was ordered by Pope Gregory
XIII. Under the new system, 1582-MAR-21 CE became the date of the vernal
equinox, the year 1582 was shortened by ten days, and future centennial
years (1600, 1700...2000) were not considered leap years unless they were
divisible by 400. 1 The Gregorian Calendar continues in general usage
today. Eventually, its 0.0003 day annual error will accumulate and
necessitate an elimination of a leap-year day circa 4915 CE.
The linkage between the equinox, Pagan celebrations & Easter:
Many, perhaps most, Pagan religions in the ancient Mediterranean region
had a major seasonal day of religious celebration at, or following, the
spring equinox. In one religion, Cybele, the Phrygian fertility goddess,
had a consort who was believed to have been born via a virgin birth. He
was Attis, who was said to have died and been resurrected each year during
the period MAR-22 to MAR-25; i.e. at the time of the vernal equinox in the
Julian calendar.
Wherever Christian worship of Jesus and Pagan worship of Attis were active
in the same geographical area in ancient times, Christians "used to
celebrate the death and resurrection of Jesus on the same date; and pagans
and Christians used to quarrel bitterly about which of their gods was the
true prototype and which the imitation." Since the worship of Cybele was
brought to Rome in 204 BCE, about 250 years before Christianity, it is
obvious that if any copying occurred, it was the Christians that copied
the traditions of the Pagans.
Today, no consensus exists on the linkage between the Attis legend (and
the stories associated with many other god-men) and Jesus Christ:
Some religious historians believe that the god-man's death and
resurrection legends were first associated with Pagan deities many
centuries before the birth of Jesus. They were simply grafted onto stories
of Jesus' life in order to make Christian theology more acceptable to
Pagans in the Roman Empire.
Ancient Christians had an alternative explanation; they claimed that
Satan had created counterfeit Pagan deities with many of the same life
experiences as Jesus had. Satan and his demons had done this, in advance
of the coming of Christ, in order to confuse humanity.
Most modern-day Christians regard the Attis legend as being a Pagan myth
of little value. They regard Jesus' death and resurrection account as
being an exact description of real events, and unrelated to the earlier
Pagan traditions.
Among the Roman Catholic church and Protestant denominations, Easter
Sunday falls on the first Sunday after the first full moon after MAR-20,
the nominal date of the Spring Equinox. Its ancient linkages to sun and
moon worship are obvious. Many sources incorrectly state that the starting
date of the calculation is the actual day of the Equinox rather than the
nominal date of MAR-20. Other sources use an incorrect reference date of
MAR-21.
Easter Sunday can fall on any date from March 22 to April 25th. The
year-to-year sequence is so complicated that it takes 5.7 million years to
repeat. Eastern Orthodox churches sometimes celebrate Easter on the same
day as the rest of Christendom. However if that date does not follow
Passover, then the Orthodox churches delay their Easter - sometimes by
over a month.
ANCIENT BRITAIN: Both the solstices and equinoxes "were the highly
sophisticated preoccupation of the mysterious Megalithic peoples who
pre-dated Celt, Roman and Saxon on Europe's Atlantic fringe by thousands
of years." The equinoxes were not otherwise celebrated in ancient Britain,
until recent years.
ANCIENT IRELAND: The spring and fall equinox were celebrated in ancient
times. A cluster of megalithic cairns are scattered through the hills at
Loughcrew, about 55 miles North West of Dublin in Ireland. Longhcrew Carin
T is a passage tomb which is designed so that the light from the rising
sun on the spring and summer equinoxes penetrates a long corridor and
illuminates a backstone, which is decorated with astronomical symbols.
19,20
ANCIENT GERMANS: Ostara, the Germanic fertility Goddess was associated
with human and crop fertility. On the spring equinox, she mated with the
solar god and conceived a child that would be born 9 months later on
DEC-21: Yule, the winter solstice.
ANCIENT MAYANS: The indigenous Mayan people in Central American have
celebrated a spring equinox festival for ten centuries. As the sun sets on
the day of the equinox on the great ceremonial pyramid, El Castillo,
Mexico, its "western face...is bathed in the late afternoon sunlight. The
lengthening shadows appear to run from the top of the pyramid's northern
staircase to the bottom, giving the illusion of a diamond-backed snake in
descent." This has been called "The Return of the Sun Serpent" since
ancient times. 14
ANCIENT GREEKS: The god-man Dionysos was a major deity among the ancient
Greeks. "As a god of the spring rites, of the flowering plants and
fruitful vines, Dionysos was said to be in terrible pain during winter,
when most living things sicken and die, or hibernate." Persephone, a
daughter of Demeter, descended into the Otherworld and returned near the
time of the spring equinox. This story has close parallels to various
Goddess legends, stories of the life of King Arthur, and of Jesus Christ.
10
ANCIENT PERSIA; ZOROASTRIANISM: Various ancient civilizations
(Mesopotamia, Sumeria, Babylonia, Elam) circa 3000 to 2000 BCE celebrated
new years at the time of the spring equinox. "No Ruz," the new day or New
Year has been celebrated in the area of modern-day Iran since the
Achaemenian (Hakhamaneshi) period over 2500 years ago. It survived because
of Zoroastrianism which was the religion of Ancient Persia before the
advent of Islam 1400 years ago. Many religious historians trace the
Judeo-Christian concepts of Hell, Heaven, Resurrection, the arrival of the
Messiah, and the last judgment to Zoroastrianism. In that faith, the Lord
of Wisdom "created all that was good and became God. The Hostile Spirit,
Angra Mainyu (Ahriman), residing in the eternal darkness created all that
was bad and became the Hostile Spirit." 16 This dualistic God/Satan
concept is surprisingly close to the views of conservative Christianity
today.
ANCIENT ROMANS: In "about 200 B.C., mystery cults began to appear in Rome
just as they had earlier in Greece. Most notable was the Cybele cult
centered on Vatican hill ...Associated with the Cybele cult was that of
her lover, Attis (the older Tammuz, Osiris, Dionysus, or Orpheus under a
new name)...The festival began as a day of blood on Black Friday and
culminated after three days in a day of rejoicing over the resurrection."
Attis was born of a human woman, a virgin named Nana. He "grew up to
become a sacrificial victim and Savior, slain to bring salvation to
mankind. His body was eaten by his worshipers in the form of bread...[He
was] crucified on a pine tree, whence his holy blood poured down to redeem
the earth." 2 The celebration was held on MAR-25, 9 months before his
birth on DEC-25. In Rome, the rituals took place where St. Peter's now
stands in Vatican City. 8 The similarities between the stories of Attis
and Jesus are obvious.
ANCIENT SAXONS: Eostre was the Saxon version of the Germanic lunar
goddess Ostara. She gave her name to the Christian Easter and to the
female hormone estrogen. Her feast day was held on the full moon following
the vernal equinox -- almost the identical calculation as for the
Christian Easter in the west. One delightful legend associated with Eostre
was that she found an injured bird on the ground one winter. To save its
life, she transformed it into a hare. But "the transformation was not a
complete one. The bird took the appearance of a hare but retained the
ability to lay eggs. ..the hare would decorate these eggs and leave them
as gifts to Eostre." 10
BAH�'� WORLD FAITH: Naw-R�z is an ancient Iranian New Years day festival
which occurs near the Spring Equinox. It is now a world holiday of the
Bah�'� faith. If the equinox occurs before sunset, then New Year's Day is
celebrated on that day in the Middle East; otherwise it is delayed until
the following day. In the rest of the world, it is always on MAR-21. It is
celebrated with many symbols indicating regrowth and renewal - much like
the Christian Easter. Some members follow the ancient Iranian "haft-sin"
custom on this day involves arranging seven objects whose name begin with
the letter "S" in Persian; e.g. hyacinths, apples, lilies, silver coins,
garlic, vinegar and rue.
CHRISTIANITY: The record of the Roman Army's execution date of Yeshua of
Nazareth (later known as Jesus Christ) has been lost. Dates linked to the
Jewish Passover celebration in the years 30 to 33 have been suggested.
Easter commemorates Jesus' execution, visit to Hell, and resurrection.
Easter Sunday is a moveable holy day, being celebrated from late MAR to
late APR. It is named after the "Teutonic goddess Eostre, whose name is
probably yet another variant of Ishtar, Astare and Aset..." 8
The Feast of Annunciation of the Blessed Virgin Mary is held on MAR-25, on
the nominal date of the spring equinox, according to the old Julian
calendar. This is the time when the angel Gabriel told Mary that she was
pregnant. (Luke 1:26-38) Nine months later, at Christmas/Yule, Mary is
traditionally believed to have given birth to Jesus, while still a virgin.

JUDAISM: "In its origin, the Passover dinner itself was a spring
fertility festival the unleavened bread coming from the agricultural past
of the people and the paschal lamb from its more distant pastoral years."
6 The Bible passages of Leviticus 23:5-8 and Numbers 28:16-18 state that
Passover is to be celebrated in the springtime, on the 14th day of the
Jewish month of Nissan. The Feast of Unleavened Bread to the Lord is held
on the 15th. It evolved into a celebration of God's liberation of the
ancient Hebrews from slavery in Egypt.
NATIVE AMERICAN SPIRITUALITY: There are countless stone structures
created by Natives in the past and still standing in North America. One
was called Calendar One by its modern-day finder. It is in a natural
amphitheatre of about 20 acres in size in Vermont. From a stone enclosure
in the center of the bowl, one can see a number of vertical rocks and
other markers around the edge of the bowl "At the winter solstice, the sun
rose at the southern peak of the east ridge and set at a notch at the
southern end of the west ridge." The summer solstice and both equinoxes
were similarly marked. 4
"America's Stonehenge" is a 4,000 year old megalithic site located on
Mystery Hill in Salem NH. Carbon dating has estimated the age of some
charcoal remnants at 3,000 and 4,000 years ago. Researchers have concluded
that the site was erected either by Native Americans or an unknown migrant
European population. 15 The site contains five standing stones and one
fallen stone in a linear alignment which point to both the sunrise and
sunset at the spring and fall equinoxes.
NEOPAGANISM: This is a group of religions which are attempted
re-creations of ancient Pagan religions. Of these, Wicca is the most
common; it is loosely based on ancient Celtic beliefs, symbols and
practices, with the addition of some more recent Masonic and ceremonial
magic rituals.
Monotheistic religions, like Judaism, Christianity and Islam, tend to view
time as linear. It started with creation; the world as we know it will end
at some time in the future. Aboriginal and Neopagan religions see time as
circular and repetitive, with lunar (monthly) and solar (yearly) cycles.
Their "...rituals guarantee the continuity of nature's cycles, which
traditional human societies depend on for their sustenance." 3
Wiccans recognize eight seasonal days of celebration. Four are minor
sabbats and occur at the two solstices and the two equinoxes. The other
are major sabbats which happen approximately halfway between an equinox
and solstice. Wiccans may celebrate Lady Day on the evening before, or at
sunrise on the morning of the solstice/equinox, or at the exact time of
vernal equinox.
Near the Mediterranean, this is a time of sprouting of the summer's crop;
farther north, it is the time for seeding. 8 Their rituals at the Spring
Equinox are related primarily to the fertility of the crops and to the
balance of the day and night times. Where Wiccans can safely celebrate the
Sabbat out of doors without threat of religious persecution, they often
incorporate a bonfire into their rituals, jumping over the dying embers to
assure fertility of people and crops. It is experienced as a time of
balance.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/spring_equinox.htm
for starters
The numbers are active at the web site.

Now I'll grant you, the eggs and many other details didn't come from
Jewish tradition. They are accretions taken from pagan practice. and

How generous of you.

are just dressing on Easter. Saying that the practice of an Easter
holiday comes from pagan origins because of the English name or the
bunnies or eggs or lighting of candles comes from a pagan source is
saying the Titanic originated on the bottom of the Atlantic because you
found barnacles on the hull.

That' not thje reason, & the celebration of the Spring Equinox under the
name of Easter, in spite of Bede, is fairly recent. There is no known
festival of Eostra [being the English version of Ostra [Germanic]] in the
ancient past.

The relevant historical materials are manuscripts describing Paschal
practices. These were written by Christian apologists. By explicitly

Yes, & they had, as they still have, the job of patching up the gaps in
the xian myth. As do the apologetics of other myths.

disallowing them, you are negating the possibility of establishing an

I am negating biased & self serving sources of information, don't you?

early date for the existence of the Paschal holiday. Yet the earliest

When I want the dates of the first Paschal, I go to Jewish sources, such
as he Jewish Enclolpedia. I would even ask a Rabbi.

documents recording Christian beliefs and practices (i.e. gospels and the
letters of the evangelists) closely link the events celebrated at Easter

If they did, it was because had to, they were peddling a new myth, one
that until Saul was a failure. But, where do I find this information from
credible sources?

to the Passover. From the very beginning, Christians were conscious of
these links, and in the earliest times, Christians considered themselves
to be following the Jewish religion while being followers of Jesus.

Now there is no new claim, & the credible sourfces for this claim I can
find where?
BTW, I have never encountered that claim, though I do know of god
botherers, as well as the fact that Jews were blamed for offing the xian
pimp on a stick.

Certainly, it was established as a feast celebrated by many Christians
sometime in the 2nd century. The proper date for its celebration was the

& this information is found where, credible cites/sites only please.

subject of controversy from at latest the third century until it was
settled (for most) at the Council of Nicea in 325.

That council gets blamed for a lot that it did not do, so, credible
cites/sits please.
walksalone who does not need to give up that used chew of tobacco, &
suspects he never will.
You believe in a book that has talking animals, wizards, witches, demons,
sticks turning into snakes, food falling from the sky, people walking on
water, and all sorts of magical, absurd and primitive stories, and you say
that we are the ones that need help?

-- Jon Stol
.

User: "Cary Kittrell"
Title: Re: Easter, My White, Hairy Keister.	19 Apr 2006 06:42:58 PM

Hugh Gibbons <party@myhouse.com>

In article <4ahq63Fss1lmU1@individual.net>,
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:

"quibbler" <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1eac776ecb4657e4989926@news.readfreenews.net...

Hey, it's just an excuse to allow your kid to OD on chocolate bunnies, Peeps
and jelly beans.

Really? Well, I for one am quite impressed; you're a
much better researcher than I, because look as I will,
I cannot find who these English-speaking Pagans were
that prepetrated this takeover, and when they did it.
I had always assumed it to be the other way around,
that early Christians had appropriated your standard
generic spring-as-rebirth fertility festival,
complete with symbols of fecundity such as bunnies
and eggs, and slapped their own particular narrative
atop it.
Where may I read about your version?
-- cary
.

User: "Hugh Gibbons"
Title: Re: Easter, My White, Hairy Keister.	19 Apr 2006 11:22:05 PM

In article <e26hu2$hhg$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu>,

(Cary Kittrell) wrote:

Hugh Gibbons <party@myhouse.com>

In article <4ahq63Fss1lmU1@individual.net>,
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:

"quibbler" <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1eac776ecb4657e4989926@news.readfreenews.net...

Hey, it's just an excuse to allow your kid to OD on chocolate bunnies,
Peeps
and jelly beans.

Really? Well, I for one am quite impressed; you're a
much better researcher than I, because look as I will,
I cannot find who these English-speaking Pagans were
that prepetrated this takeover, and when they did it.

I had always assumed it to be the other way around,
that early Christians had appropriated your standard
generic spring-as-rebirth fertility festival,
complete with symbols of fecundity such as bunnies
and eggs, and slapped their own particular narrative
atop it.

Where may I read about your version?

You could start with the Wikipedia entry on Easter.
Pagan origins: name of Easter in English and German, eggs,
bunnies and possibly the lighting of candles.
Jewish origins: earlier name of Pascha, deriving from Hebrew,
sacrifice of lambs, idea of having been preserved from
death, idea of liberation
1st-century Christian origins: allegation that Jesus was killed
unjustly, claim that Jesus rose from the dead, claim that this
has significance for all mankind
Generally accepted facts:
Founders of Christian belief and earliest practices were all
Jewish (12 apostles and Paul).
1st wave of conversions to Christian belief were in Jerusalem
In the latter half of the 1st century, converts were mostly
Gentiles, but there was still debate at that time about whether
they should be required to follow elements of Jewish law.
Inclusion of the whole body of Jewish holy scripture indicates
that they found the Jewish tradition to be of paramount importance
to early Christians
Establishment of various Paschal traditions prior to the Council of
Nicea in 325.
Extant Easter sermon by John Chrysostom (c. 404) mentions lots about
Jesus and Resurrection but notably lacks bunnies and eggs.
Easter sermon by Melito of Sardis (died c. 180) similiarly lacks
identifiable pagan ideas.
.

User: "quibbler"
Title: Re: Easter, My White, Hairy Keister.	19 Apr 2006 11:37:20 AM

In article <party-ADC0D4.09234019042006@news-fe-01.texas.rr.com>,
party@myhouse.com says...

Yeah, I'm so sure that the much earlier pagan tradition didn't have their
own holiday and really needed to steal pathetic crap from loser xians.

and slapped their name on it because it aligned to their
holiday on the calendar.

And how did they convince dumbass christians to adopt the egg and bunny
thing?

--
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
.

User: "Onanite"
Title: Re: Easter, My White, Hairy Keister.	16 Apr 2006 08:43:06 PM

Well happy bunny day to you too!
.

User: "Christopher Helms"
Title: Re: Easter, My White, Hairy Keister.	16 Apr 2006 10:22:52 PM

They grafted the major events of Christs life onto already existing
pagan festivals. They also built many of their churches and basilicas
on the sites of pagan holy sites and temples. Eggs and rabbits were
pagan symbols of fertility and spring that have snuck into our modern
traditions. The early church took over the Roman Pantheon and converted
it to its own use. Saturnailia became "Christmas" because it was
*politically* convenient, not because Christ was actually born that
day. They took control of Trajans column in Rome, yanked the statue of
Trajan off the top of it, stuck one of either St. Peter or St. Paul up
there and declared it a christian monument. So now a column that still
features the exploits of a pagan roman emperor is a physical part of
the catholic church. I suspect the early church was simply following in
the footsteps of Rome (which is its real father whether they admit it
or not) and allowing already existing "barbarian" things (holy and
secular) to continue to exist within limits. If I remember correctly,
the Romans were in the habit of allowing native people in areas they
conquered to retain many of their customs and traditions, too, as long
as they also paid their taxes and acknowledged the Roman emperor as a
diety. That would explain the early churches willingness to let pagan
festivals continue on, as long as they adopted a christian "spin."
Later on they got powerful and crazy and declared all manner of things
heretical, but early on they had a fairly roman approach to things like
pagan festivals.
.

User: "quibbler"
Title: Re: Easter, My White, Hairy Keister.	16 Apr 2006 09:35:38 PM

In article <1145238186.199948.197360@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
onanite@gay.com says...

Well happy bunny day to you too!

I'm just saying that it has nothing to do with ChristInsanity, dude. It
was much cooler in pagan form when it was just a spring fertility
ceremony.
--
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
.

User: "Kate "
Title: Re: Easter, My White, Hairy Keister.	16 Apr 2006 11:31:04 PM

On Sun, 16 Apr 2006 20:35:38 -0600, quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com>
wrote:

In article <1145238186.199948.197360@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
onanite@gay.com says...

Well happy bunny day to you too!

I'm just saying that it has nothing to do with ChristInsanity, dude. It
was much cooler in pagan form when it was just a spring fertility
ceremony.

I dunno about you, but our family just celebrates the candy.
But then again, it's getting so that's what most holidays are really
about.
.

User: "Pedophile Christian Association of America PCAA"
Title: Re: Easter, My White, Hairy Keister.	17 Apr 2006 08:29:43 PM

quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:

Does anyone honestly believe that pagan Easter, deriving from the goddess
Ishtar or Astarte has one fucking thing to do with Xianity?

And yet another God hating atheist pile of ***** yarks off with
another anti-God Satanic lie.
.

User: "Robibnikoff"
Title: Re: Easter, My White, Hairy Keister.	18 Apr 2006 04:04:31 AM

"Pedophile Christian Association of America (PCAA)"
<PedoWorkGroup@Catholic.ORG> wrote in message
news:1248g9l5jbvol86@corp.supernews.com...

quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:

Does anyone honestly believe that pagan Easter, deriving from the goddess
Ishtar or Astarte has one fucking thing to do with Xianity?

And yet another God hating atheist pile of ***** yarks off with
another anti-God Satanic lie.

Truth hurts, doesn't it, pigfucker?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
Atheist ***** Extraordinaire
#1557
.

User: "Mark K. Bilbo"
Title: Re: Easter, My White, Hairy Keister.	18 Apr 2006 07:54:48 AM

Previously, on alt.atheism, Robibnikoff in episode
<4ajod1Ft816lU1@individual.net>...

"Pedophile Christian Association of America (PCAA)"
<PedoWorkGroup@Catholic.ORG> wrote in message
news:1248g9l5jbvol86@corp.supernews.com...

quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:

Does anyone honestly believe that pagan Easter, deriving from the
goddess Ishtar or Astarte has one fucking thing to do with Xianity?

And yet another God hating atheist pile of ***** yarks off with another
anti-God Satanic lie.

Truth hurts, doesn't it, pigfucker?

Now, now, that's "pig lover."
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"Corps chief admits to 'design failure'"
(Took them long enough)
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J3EF62DEC
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.

User: "Robibnikoff"
Title: Re: Easter, My White, Hairy Keister.	18 Apr 2006 09:50:00 AM

"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:nIOdnVAfXYcFfNnZRVn-iw@megapath.net...

Previously, on alt.atheism, Robibnikoff in episode
<4ajod1Ft816lU1@individual.net>...

"Pedophile Christian Association of America (PCAA)"
<PedoWorkGroup@Catholic.ORG> wrote in message
news:1248g9l5jbvol86@corp.supernews.com...

quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:

Does anyone honestly believe that pagan Easter, deriving from the
goddess Ishtar or Astarte has one fucking thing to do with Xianity?

And yet another God hating atheist pile of ***** yarks off with another
anti-God Satanic lie.

Truth hurts, doesn't it, pigfucker?

Now, now, that's "pig lover."

Sorry, I hadn't had my second cup of coffee yet ;)
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
Atheist ***** Extraordinaire
#1557
.

User: "DanielSan"
Title: Re: Easter, My White, Hairy Keister.	18 Apr 2006 08:36:50 AM

Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

Previously, on alt.atheism, Robibnikoff in episode
<4ajod1Ft816lU1@individual.net>...

"Pedophile Christian Association of America (PCAA)"
<PedoWorkGroup@Catholic.ORG> wrote in message
news:1248g9l5jbvol86@corp.supernews.com...

quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:

Does anyone honestly believe that pagan Easter, deriving from the
goddess Ishtar or Astarte has one fucking thing to do with Xianity?

And yet another God hating atheist pile of ***** yarks off with another
anti-God Satanic lie.

Truth hurts, doesn't it, pigfucker?

Now, now, that's "pig lover."

That's still too dirty. Try suidaeophile. :-)
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "Torture has never been a reliable means of *
* extracting information.... One wonders why it *
* is still practiced." --Jean-Luc Picard *
****************************************************
--
.

User: "JohnN"
Title: Re: Easter, My White, Hairy Keister.	18 Apr 2006 08:18:08 AM

Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

Previously, on alt.atheism, Robibnikoff in episode
<4ajod1Ft816lU1@individual.net>...

"Pedophile Christian Association of America (PCAA)"
<PedoWorkGroup@Catholic.ORG> wrote in message
news:1248g9l5jbvol86@corp.supernews.com...

quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:

Does anyone honestly believe that pagan Easter, deriving from the
goddess Ishtar or Astarte has one fucking thing to do with Xianity?

And yet another God hating atheist pile of ***** yarks off with another
anti-God Satanic lie.

Truth hurts, doesn't it, pigfucker?

Now, now, that's "pig lover."

He's a real sausage stuffer.
JohnN
.

User: "quibbler"
Title: Re: Easter, My White, Hairy Keister.	18 Apr 2006 10:53:32 AM

In article <1248g9l5jbvol86@corp.supernews.com>,
PedoWorkGroup@Catholic.ORG says...

quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:

Does anyone honestly believe that pagan Easter, deriving from the goddess
Ishtar or Astarte has one fucking thing to do with Xianity?

And yet another God hating

Actually, dumbass, it would be goddess-hating, in the case of
Astarte. Not that I consider her to be any more real than the
fictional Yahweh nonsense.

atheist pile of *****

Even my piles of ***** are worth more than your moronic, nonsensical
god concept. In fact, since you worship a pile of ***** like Yahweh,
you should have no trouble worshipping my turds either.

yarks off with
another anti-God Satanic lie.

You haven't shown, nor are you capable of showing that my claim was
a "lie". Why would the "Easter" holiday have anything to do with
the false, mythical, ridiculous resurrection claim?
--
"Faith, indeed, has up to the present not been
able to move real mountains ... But it can put
mountains where there are none." -- Nietzsche
.

Page 1 of 1

Post reply

OT: "The Rose-Hairy"
Was it an Apple or the Hairy Banana?
Pope = dirty hairy monkey in a dress
Re: Lizzie, fat Hairy German
Re: hairy Psalms 107
Does "Sound of Trumpet" Have Hairy Palms?
John Kerry Stalinist Campaign Slogan! LIBERALS HAVE HAIRY PALMS!!!
Hairy Palm Sunday?

Why Muslim women cover themselves - they are lepers & hairy, lice-infested apes!
Hairy Krishnas also Creationist morons
Easter Can Kiss My Keister
Homosexual Easter at the White House?
OT: White House takes direct role in the running of Iraqi affairs
Is the White House Misusing Science?
TIME Reveals Cheney's Secret Bunker - White House Angered

NEWER

pg.3585 pg.2749 pg.2106 pg.1612 pg.1232 pg.940 pg.716 pg.544 pg.412 pg.311 pg.234 pg.175 pg.130 pg.96 pg.70 pg.50 pg.35 pg.24 pg.16 pg.10 pg.6 pg.3 pg.1

OLDER