Religions > Atheism > Ellen Johnson (President of American Atheists) On Her Appearance on the Paula Zahn Show
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Michelle Malkin" |
| Date: |
17 Feb 2007 06:18:32 PM |
| Object: |
Ellen Johnson (President of American Atheists) On Her Appearance on the Paula Zahn Show |
http://www.atheists.org/
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Ellen Johnson (President of American Atheists) On Her Appearance on the Paula Zahn Show |
18 Feb 2007 12:05:45 AM |
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In article <T-udnQz7LrLYBkrYnZ2dnUVZ_oernZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
http://www.atheists.org/
I watched that the other night. When the preacher asked Ellen Johnson
where do atheists get their morals, I wished that she had pointed to her
head and said: "Right here. Human reason."
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
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| User: "Ben Kaufman" |
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| Title: Re: Ellen Johnson (President of American Atheists) On Her Appearance on the Paula Zahn Show |
18 Feb 2007 07:21:13 AM |
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On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 22:05:45 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote:
In article <T-udnQz7LrLYBkrYnZ2dnUVZ_oernZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
http://www.atheists.org/
I watched that the other night. When the preacher asked Ellen Johnson
where do atheists get their morals, I wished that she had pointed to her
head and said: "Right here. Human reason."
Maybe she was holding back on the trigger to point out that Man has created the
morals and the vengeful God enforcer to go along with them.
Ben
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Ellen Johnson (President of American Atheists) On Her Appearance on the Paula Zahn Show |
18 Feb 2007 06:44:47 PM |
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In article <fhkgt29q8vq5vur7j1jlrrosbs834ts5nv@4ax.com>,
Ben Kaufman <spaXm-mXe-anXd-paXy-5000-dollars@pobox.com> wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 22:05:45 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote:
In article <T-udnQz7LrLYBkrYnZ2dnUVZ_oernZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
http://www.atheists.org/
I watched that the other night. When the preacher asked Ellen Johnson
where do atheists get their morals, I wished that she had pointed to her
head and said: "Right here. Human reason."
Maybe she was holding back on the trigger to point out that Man has created
the
morals and the vengeful God enforcer to go along with them.
Ben
That's true historically, but I think he meant where do we get them now.
The fundies often claim that since atheists don't have "God-given"
morals we think it's OK to murder, steal, lie, etc. Of course that's a
sack of crap, but they keep on repeating the same lies over and over.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
|
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Ellen Johnson (President of American Atheists) On Her Appearance on the Paula Zahn Show |
18 Feb 2007 10:32:38 PM |
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On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:44:47 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-267F41.16444718022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <fhkgt29q8vq5vur7j1jlrrosbs834ts5nv@4ax.com>,
Ben Kaufman <spaXm-mXe-anXd-paXy-5000-dollars@pobox.com> wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 22:05:45 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote:
In article <T-udnQz7LrLYBkrYnZ2dnUVZ_oernZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
http://www.atheists.org/
I watched that the other night. When the preacher asked Ellen Johnson
where do atheists get their morals, I wished that she had pointed to her
head and said: "Right here. Human reason."
Maybe she was holding back on the trigger to point out that Man has created
the
morals and the vengeful God enforcer to go along with them.
Ben
That's true historically, but I think he meant where do we get them now.
The fundies often claim that since atheists don't have "God-given"
morals we think it's OK to murder, steal, lie, etc. Of course that's a
sack of crap, but they keep on repeating the same lies over and over.
Which Dawkins demolishes with supreme efficiency!
--
.
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| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Ellen Johnson (President of American Atheists) On Her Appearance on the Paula Zahn Show |
18 Feb 2007 11:58:05 PM |
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In article <c2ait2po73anrg20grepbsj9p9g3uva3jk@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:44:47 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-267F41.16444718022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <fhkgt29q8vq5vur7j1jlrrosbs834ts5nv@4ax.com>,
Ben Kaufman <spaXm-mXe-anXd-paXy-5000-dollars@pobox.com> wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 22:05:45 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote:
In article <T-udnQz7LrLYBkrYnZ2dnUVZ_oernZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
http://www.atheists.org/
I watched that the other night. When the preacher asked Ellen Johnson
where do atheists get their morals, I wished that she had pointed to her
head and said: "Right here. Human reason."
Maybe she was holding back on the trigger to point out that Man has
created
the
morals and the vengeful God enforcer to go along with them.
Ben
That's true historically, but I think he meant where do we get them now.
The fundies often claim that since atheists don't have "God-given"
morals we think it's OK to murder, steal, lie, etc. Of course that's a
sack of crap, but they keep on repeating the same lies over and over.
Which Dawkins demolishes with supreme efficiency!
--
He does and so do many others. We don't need gods to figure out how to
behave. Don't hit me and I won't hit you was probably how 'morality'
started.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Ellen Johnson (President of American Atheists) On Her Appearance on the Paula Zahn Show |
19 Feb 2007 09:04:33 PM |
|
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On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 21:58:05 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-B8EA37.21580518022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <c2ait2po73anrg20grepbsj9p9g3uva3jk@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:44:47 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-267F41.16444718022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <fhkgt29q8vq5vur7j1jlrrosbs834ts5nv@4ax.com>,
Ben Kaufman <spaXm-mXe-anXd-paXy-5000-dollars@pobox.com> wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 22:05:45 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote:
In article <T-udnQz7LrLYBkrYnZ2dnUVZ_oernZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
http://www.atheists.org/
I watched that the other night. When the preacher asked Ellen Johnson
where do atheists get their morals, I wished that she had pointed to her
head and said: "Right here. Human reason."
Maybe she was holding back on the trigger to point out that Man has
created
the
morals and the vengeful God enforcer to go along with them.
Ben
That's true historically, but I think he meant where do we get them now.
The fundies often claim that since atheists don't have "God-given"
morals we think it's OK to murder, steal, lie, etc. Of course that's a
sack of crap, but they keep on repeating the same lies over and over.
Which Dawkins demolishes with supreme efficiency!
--
He does and so do many others. We don't need gods to figure out how to
behave. Don't hit me and I won't hit you was probably how 'morality'
started.
More like in close knit tribes: many of my genes are inside you too,
so shared genes that promote altruism will naturally increase in
frequency.
If I kill you, then I prevent you from spreading many of my genes.
Altruism is mathematically inevitable in a group with shared genes,
who are also capable of individual kin recognition.
--
.
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| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Ellen Johnson (President of American Atheists) On Her Appearance on the Paula Zahn Show |
19 Feb 2007 10:21:52 PM |
|
|
In article <44pkt25khumb6kme9lhh0k6cs0o5nuhe3f@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 21:58:05 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-B8EA37.21580518022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <c2ait2po73anrg20grepbsj9p9g3uva3jk@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:44:47 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-267F41.16444718022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <fhkgt29q8vq5vur7j1jlrrosbs834ts5nv@4ax.com>,
Ben Kaufman <spaXm-mXe-anXd-paXy-5000-dollars@pobox.com> wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 22:05:45 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
In article <T-udnQz7LrLYBkrYnZ2dnUVZ_oernZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
http://www.atheists.org/
I watched that the other night. When the preacher asked Ellen Johnson
where do atheists get their morals, I wished that she had pointed to
her
head and said: "Right here. Human reason."
Maybe she was holding back on the trigger to point out that Man has
created
the
morals and the vengeful God enforcer to go along with them.
Ben
That's true historically, but I think he meant where do we get them now.
The fundies often claim that since atheists don't have "God-given"
morals we think it's OK to murder, steal, lie, etc. Of course that's a
sack of crap, but they keep on repeating the same lies over and over.
Which Dawkins demolishes with supreme efficiency!
--
He does and so do many others. We don't need gods to figure out how to
behave. Don't hit me and I won't hit you was probably how 'morality'
started.
More like in close knit tribes: many of my genes are inside you too,
so shared genes that promote altruism will naturally increase in
frequency.
If I kill you, then I prevent you from spreading many of my genes.
Altruism is mathematically inevitable in a group with shared genes,
who are also capable of individual kin recognition.
That would be a genetic origin of altruism. If people killed off member
of their own group willy nilly, that would be a poor survivability
trait. I think that in the development of 'morals' or appropriate
behavior, culture might have had something to do with it too.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Ellen Johnson (President of American Atheists) On Her Appearance on the Paula Zahn Show |
20 Feb 2007 12:54:28 AM |
|
|
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 20:21:52 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-6BEBBC.20215219022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <44pkt25khumb6kme9lhh0k6cs0o5nuhe3f@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 21:58:05 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-B8EA37.21580518022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <c2ait2po73anrg20grepbsj9p9g3uva3jk@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:44:47 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-267F41.16444718022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <fhkgt29q8vq5vur7j1jlrrosbs834ts5nv@4ax.com>,
Ben Kaufman <spaXm-mXe-anXd-paXy-5000-dollars@pobox.com> wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 22:05:45 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
In article <T-udnQz7LrLYBkrYnZ2dnUVZ_oernZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
http://www.atheists.org/
I watched that the other night. When the preacher asked Ellen Johnson
where do atheists get their morals, I wished that she had pointed to
her
head and said: "Right here. Human reason."
Maybe she was holding back on the trigger to point out that Man has
created
the
morals and the vengeful God enforcer to go along with them.
Ben
That's true historically, but I think he meant where do we get them now.
The fundies often claim that since atheists don't have "God-given"
morals we think it's OK to murder, steal, lie, etc. Of course that's a
sack of crap, but they keep on repeating the same lies over and over.
Which Dawkins demolishes with supreme efficiency!
--
He does and so do many others. We don't need gods to figure out how to
behave. Don't hit me and I won't hit you was probably how 'morality'
started.
More like in close knit tribes: many of my genes are inside you too,
so shared genes that promote altruism will naturally increase in
frequency.
If I kill you, then I prevent you from spreading many of my genes.
Altruism is mathematically inevitable in a group with shared genes,
who are also capable of individual kin recognition.
That would be a genetic origin of altruism. If people killed off member
of their own group willy nilly, that would be a poor survivability
trait. I think that in the development of 'morals' or appropriate
behavior, culture might have had something to do with it too.
Steven Pinker has some very convincing stuff on the evolution of
morals. (Altruism and Morals are pretty much different views of the
same thing anyway, in my opinion).
Unfortuantely I only have it print, and I ain't about to retype it
today!
--
.
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Ellen Johnson (President of American Atheists) On Her Appearance on the Paula Zahn Show |
20 Feb 2007 04:34:21 PM |
|
|
In article <sk6lt258kcuqtc6q9bv25imnummj7a01o9@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 20:21:52 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-6BEBBC.20215219022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <44pkt25khumb6kme9lhh0k6cs0o5nuhe3f@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 21:58:05 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-B8EA37.21580518022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <c2ait2po73anrg20grepbsj9p9g3uva3jk@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:44:47 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-267F41.16444718022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <fhkgt29q8vq5vur7j1jlrrosbs834ts5nv@4ax.com>,
Ben Kaufman <spaXm-mXe-anXd-paXy-5000-dollars@pobox.com> wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 22:05:45 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
In article <T-udnQz7LrLYBkrYnZ2dnUVZ_oernZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
http://www.atheists.org/
I watched that the other night. When the preacher asked Ellen
Johnson
where do atheists get their morals, I wished that she had pointed
to
her
head and said: "Right here. Human reason."
Maybe she was holding back on the trigger to point out that Man has
created
the
morals and the vengeful God enforcer to go along with them.
Ben
That's true historically, but I think he meant where do we get them
now.
The fundies often claim that since atheists don't have "God-given"
morals we think it's OK to murder, steal, lie, etc. Of course that's a
sack of crap, but they keep on repeating the same lies over and over.
Which Dawkins demolishes with supreme efficiency!
--
He does and so do many others. We don't need gods to figure out how to
behave. Don't hit me and I won't hit you was probably how 'morality'
started.
More like in close knit tribes: many of my genes are inside you too,
so shared genes that promote altruism will naturally increase in
frequency.
If I kill you, then I prevent you from spreading many of my genes.
Altruism is mathematically inevitable in a group with shared genes,
who are also capable of individual kin recognition.
That would be a genetic origin of altruism. If people killed off member
of their own group willy nilly, that would be a poor survivability
trait. I think that in the development of 'morals' or appropriate
behavior, culture might have had something to do with it too.
Steven Pinker has some very convincing stuff on the evolution of
morals. (Altruism and Morals are pretty much different views of the
same thing anyway, in my opinion).
Unfortuantely I only have it print, and I ain't about to retype it
today!
--
I've heard of him. He wrote "The Blank Slate" which may deal with
similar topics. I haven't read the book yet.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Ellen Johnson (President of American Atheists) On Her Appearance on the Paula Zahn Show |
21 Feb 2007 02:40:37 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 14:34:21 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-7966C4.14342120022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <sk6lt258kcuqtc6q9bv25imnummj7a01o9@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 20:21:52 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-6BEBBC.20215219022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <44pkt25khumb6kme9lhh0k6cs0o5nuhe3f@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 21:58:05 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-B8EA37.21580518022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <c2ait2po73anrg20grepbsj9p9g3uva3jk@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:44:47 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-267F41.16444718022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <fhkgt29q8vq5vur7j1jlrrosbs834ts5nv@4ax.com>,
Ben Kaufman <spaXm-mXe-anXd-paXy-5000-dollars@pobox.com> wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 22:05:45 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
In article <T-udnQz7LrLYBkrYnZ2dnUVZ_oernZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
http://www.atheists.org/
I watched that the other night. When the preacher asked Ellen
Johnson
where do atheists get their morals, I wished that she had pointed
to
her
head and said: "Right here. Human reason."
Maybe she was holding back on the trigger to point out that Man has
created
the
morals and the vengeful God enforcer to go along with them.
Ben
That's true historically, but I think he meant where do we get them
now.
The fundies often claim that since atheists don't have "God-given"
morals we think it's OK to murder, steal, lie, etc. Of course that's a
sack of crap, but they keep on repeating the same lies over and over.
Which Dawkins demolishes with supreme efficiency!
--
He does and so do many others. We don't need gods to figure out how to
behave. Don't hit me and I won't hit you was probably how 'morality'
started.
More like in close knit tribes: many of my genes are inside you too,
so shared genes that promote altruism will naturally increase in
frequency.
If I kill you, then I prevent you from spreading many of my genes.
Altruism is mathematically inevitable in a group with shared genes,
who are also capable of individual kin recognition.
That would be a genetic origin of altruism. If people killed off member
of their own group willy nilly, that would be a poor survivability
trait. I think that in the development of 'morals' or appropriate
behavior, culture might have had something to do with it too.
Steven Pinker has some very convincing stuff on the evolution of
morals. (Altruism and Morals are pretty much different views of the
same thing anyway, in my opinion).
Unfortuantely I only have it print, and I ain't about to retype it
today!
--
I've heard of him. He wrote "The Blank Slate" which may deal with
similar topics. I haven't read the book yet.
He's both excellent and then infuriating, at times.
I strongly disagree with some of his opinions, but strongly agree with
most others.
Go figure!
A thought provoking writer, at least, and well worth reading, even if
you disagree.
No delicious literary siren like Dawkins of course, (is anyone?), but
highly literate nonetheless (for a bloody yank)
--
.
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Ellen Johnson (President of American Atheists) On Her Appearance on the Paula Zahn Show |
21 Feb 2007 12:41:27 PM |
|
|
In article <r11ot2t8isd83ufflc0hupjgkqockpova5@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 14:34:21 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-7966C4.14342120022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <sk6lt258kcuqtc6q9bv25imnummj7a01o9@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 20:21:52 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-6BEBBC.20215219022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <44pkt25khumb6kme9lhh0k6cs0o5nuhe3f@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 21:58:05 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-B8EA37.21580518022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <c2ait2po73anrg20grepbsj9p9g3uva3jk@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:44:47 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-267F41.16444718022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <fhkgt29q8vq5vur7j1jlrrosbs834ts5nv@4ax.com>,
Ben Kaufman <spaXm-mXe-anXd-paXy-5000-dollars@pobox.com> wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 22:05:45 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
In article <T-udnQz7LrLYBkrYnZ2dnUVZ_oernZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
http://www.atheists.org/
I watched that the other night. When the preacher asked Ellen
Johnson
where do atheists get their morals, I wished that she had
pointed
to
her
head and said: "Right here. Human reason."
Maybe she was holding back on the trigger to point out that Man
has
created
the
morals and the vengeful God enforcer to go along with them.
Ben
That's true historically, but I think he meant where do we get them
now.
The fundies often claim that since atheists don't have "God-given"
morals we think it's OK to murder, steal, lie, etc. Of course
that's a
sack of crap, but they keep on repeating the same lies over and
over.
Which Dawkins demolishes with supreme efficiency!
--
He does and so do many others. We don't need gods to figure out how to
behave. Don't hit me and I won't hit you was probably how 'morality'
started.
More like in close knit tribes: many of my genes are inside you too,
so shared genes that promote altruism will naturally increase in
frequency.
If I kill you, then I prevent you from spreading many of my genes.
Altruism is mathematically inevitable in a group with shared genes,
who are also capable of individual kin recognition.
That would be a genetic origin of altruism. If people killed off member
of their own group willy nilly, that would be a poor survivability
trait. I think that in the development of 'morals' or appropriate
behavior, culture might have had something to do with it too.
Steven Pinker has some very convincing stuff on the evolution of
morals. (Altruism and Morals are pretty much different views of the
same thing anyway, in my opinion).
Unfortuantely I only have it print, and I ain't about to retype it
today!
--
I've heard of him. He wrote "The Blank Slate" which may deal with
similar topics. I haven't read the book yet.
He's both excellent and then infuriating, at times.
I strongly disagree with some of his opinions, but strongly agree with
most others.
Go figure!
A thought provoking writer, at least, and well worth reading, even if
you disagree.
No delicious literary siren like Dawkins of course, (is anyone?), but
highly literate nonetheless (for a bloody yank)
So many books, so little time. I just ordered a book by Victor Stenger:
"God -- the Failed Hypothesis: How Science Shows That God Does Not Exist"
http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/vstenger/
Plus I have a whole pile already waiting to get read.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Thandarr" |
|
| Title: Re: Ellen Johnson (President of American Atheists) On Her Appearance on the Paula Zahn Show |
25 Feb 2007 07:55:55 AM |
|
|
On Feb 21, 12:41 pm, johac <jhachm...@sbcglobal.com> wrote:
In article <r11ot2t8isd83ufflc0hupjgkqockpo...@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikeg...@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 14:34:21 -0800, johac <jhachm...@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-7966C4.14342120022...@news.giganews.com>
In article <sk6lt258kcuqtc6q9bv25imnummj7a0...@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikeg...@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 20:21:52 -0800, johac <jhachm...@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-6BEBBC.20215219022...@news.giganews.com>
In article <44pkt25khumb6kme9lhh0k6cs0o5nuh...@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikeg...@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 21:58:05 -0800, johac <jhachm...@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-B8EA37.21580518022...@news.giganews.com>
In article <c2ait2po73anrg20grepbsj9p9g3uva...@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikeg...@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:44:47 -0800, johac <jhachm...@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-267F41.16444718022...@news.giganews.com>
In article <fhkgt29q8vq5vur7j1jlrrosbs834ts...@4ax.com>,
Ben Kaufman <spaXm-mXe-anXd-paXy-5000-doll...@pobox.com> wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 22:05:45 -0800, johac
<jhachm...@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
In article <T-udnQz7LrLYBkrYnZ2dnUVZ_oern...@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypati...@comcast.net> wrote:
http://www.atheists.org/
I watched that the other night. When the preacher asked Ellen
Johnson
where do atheists get their morals, I wished that she had
pointed
to
her
head and said: "Right here. Human reason."
Maybe she was holding back on the trigger to point out that Man
has
created
the
morals and the vengeful God enforcer to go along with them.
Ben
That's true historically, but I think he meant where do we get them
now.
The fundies often claim that since atheists don't have "God-given"
morals we think it's OK to murder, steal, lie, etc. Of course
that's a
sack of crap, but they keep on repeating the same lies over and
over.
Which Dawkins demolishes with supreme efficiency!
--
He does and so do many others. We don't need gods to figure out how to
behave. Don't hit me and I won't hit you was probably how 'morality'
started.
More like in close knit tribes: many of my genes are inside you too,
so shared genes that promote altruism will naturally increase in
frequency.
If I kill you, then I prevent you from spreading many of my genes.
Altruism is mathematically inevitable in a group with shared genes,
who are also capable of individual kin recognition.
That would be a genetic origin of altruism. If people killed off member
of their own group willy nilly, that would be a poor survivability
trait. I think that in the development of 'morals' or appropriate
behavior, culture might have had something to do with it too.
Steven Pinker has some very convincing stuff on the evolution of
morals. (Altruism and Morals are pretty much different views of the
same thing anyway, in my opinion).
Unfortuantely I only have it print, and I ain't about to retype it
today!
--
I've heard of him. He wrote "The Blank Slate" which may deal with
similar topics. I haven't read the book yet.
He's both excellent and then infuriating, at times.
I strongly disagree with some of his opinions, but strongly agree with
most others.
Go figure!
A thought provoking writer, at least, and well worth reading, even if
you disagree.
No delicious literary siren like Dawkins of course, (is anyone?), but
highly literate nonetheless (for a bloody yank)
So many books, so little time. I just ordered a book by Victor Stenger:
"God -- the Failed Hypothesis: How Science Shows That God Does Not Exist"
http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/vstenger/
Plus I have a whole pile already waiting to get read.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
RE: Stenger's book. I think you'll like it. I did.
Thandarr
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Ellen Johnson (President of American Atheists) On Her Appearance on the Paula Zahn Show |
21 Feb 2007 07:30:33 PM |
|
|
On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 10:41:27 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-EC7727.10412721022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <r11ot2t8isd83ufflc0hupjgkqockpova5@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 14:34:21 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-7966C4.14342120022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <sk6lt258kcuqtc6q9bv25imnummj7a01o9@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 20:21:52 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-6BEBBC.20215219022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <44pkt25khumb6kme9lhh0k6cs0o5nuhe3f@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 21:58:05 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-B8EA37.21580518022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <c2ait2po73anrg20grepbsj9p9g3uva3jk@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:44:47 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-267F41.16444718022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <fhkgt29q8vq5vur7j1jlrrosbs834ts5nv@4ax.com>,
Ben Kaufman <spaXm-mXe-anXd-paXy-5000-dollars@pobox.com> wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 22:05:45 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
In article <T-udnQz7LrLYBkrYnZ2dnUVZ_oernZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
http://www.atheists.org/
I watched that the other night. When the preacher asked Ellen
Johnson
where do atheists get their morals, I wished that she had
pointed
to
her
head and said: "Right here. Human reason."
Maybe she was holding back on the trigger to point out that Man
has
created
the
morals and the vengeful God enforcer to go along with them.
Ben
That's true historically, but I think he meant where do we get them
now.
The fundies often claim that since atheists don't have "God-given"
morals we think it's OK to murder, steal, lie, etc. Of course
that's a
sack of crap, but they keep on repeating the same lies over and
over.
Which Dawkins demolishes with supreme efficiency!
--
He does and so do many others. We don't need gods to figure out how to
behave. Don't hit me and I won't hit you was probably how 'morality'
started.
More like in close knit tribes: many of my genes are inside you too,
so shared genes that promote altruism will naturally increase in
frequency.
If I kill you, then I prevent you from spreading many of my genes.
Altruism is mathematically inevitable in a group with shared genes,
who are also capable of individual kin recognition.
That would be a genetic origin of altruism. If people killed off member
of their own group willy nilly, that would be a poor survivability
trait. I think that in the development of 'morals' or appropriate
behavior, culture might have had something to do with it too.
Steven Pinker has some very convincing stuff on the evolution of
morals. (Altruism and Morals are pretty much different views of the
same thing anyway, in my opinion).
Unfortuantely I only have it print, and I ain't about to retype it
today!
--
I've heard of him. He wrote "The Blank Slate" which may deal with
similar topics. I haven't read the book yet.
He's both excellent and then infuriating, at times.
I strongly disagree with some of his opinions, but strongly agree with
most others.
Go figure!
A thought provoking writer, at least, and well worth reading, even if
you disagree.
No delicious literary siren like Dawkins of course, (is anyone?), but
highly literate nonetheless (for a bloody yank)
So many books, so little time. I just ordered a book by Victor Stenger:
"God -- the Failed Hypothesis: How Science Shows That God Does Not Exist"
http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/vstenger/
Plus I have a whole pile already waiting to get read.
You can't read entire pier supports, mate.
--
.
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Ellen Johnson (President of American Atheists) On Her Appearance on the Paula Zahn Show |
21 Feb 2007 11:41:35 PM |
|
|
In article <ugspt21ci6ac4v7s1k9supsj0ali9slkh8@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 10:41:27 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-EC7727.10412721022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <r11ot2t8isd83ufflc0hupjgkqockpova5@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 14:34:21 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-7966C4.14342120022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <sk6lt258kcuqtc6q9bv25imnummj7a01o9@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 20:21:52 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-6BEBBC.20215219022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <44pkt25khumb6kme9lhh0k6cs0o5nuhe3f@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 21:58:05 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-B8EA37.21580518022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <c2ait2po73anrg20grepbsj9p9g3uva3jk@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:44:47 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-267F41.16444718022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <fhkgt29q8vq5vur7j1jlrrosbs834ts5nv@4ax.com>,
Ben Kaufman <spaXm-mXe-anXd-paXy-5000-dollars@pobox.com> wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 22:05:45 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
In article <T-udnQz7LrLYBkrYnZ2dnUVZ_oernZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
http://www.atheists.org/
I watched that the other night. When the preacher asked Ellen
Johnson
where do atheists get their morals, I wished that she had
pointed
to
her
head and said: "Right here. Human reason."
Maybe she was holding back on the trigger to point out that
Man
has
created
the
morals and the vengeful God enforcer to go along with them.
Ben
That's true historically, but I think he meant where do we get
them
now.
The fundies often claim that since atheists don't have
"God-given"
morals we think it's OK to murder, steal, lie, etc. Of course
that's a
sack of crap, but they keep on repeating the same lies over and
over.
Which Dawkins demolishes with supreme efficiency!
--
He does and so do many others. We don't need gods to figure out how
to
behave. Don't hit me and I won't hit you was probably how
'morality'
started.
More like in close knit tribes: many of my genes are inside you too,
so shared genes that promote altruism will naturally increase in
frequency.
If I kill you, then I prevent you from spreading many of my genes.
Altruism is mathematically inevitable in a group with shared genes,
who are also capable of individual kin recognition.
That would be a genetic origin of altruism. If people killed off
member
of their own group willy nilly, that would be a poor survivability
trait. I think that in the development of 'morals' or appropriate
behavior, culture might have had something to do with it too.
Steven Pinker has some very convincing stuff on the evolution of
morals. (Altruism and Morals are pretty much different views of the
same thing anyway, in my opinion).
Unfortuantely I only have it print, and I ain't about to retype it
today!
--
I've heard of him. He wrote "The Blank Slate" which may deal with
similar topics. I haven't read the book yet.
He's both excellent and then infuriating, at times.
I strongly disagree with some of his opinions, but strongly agree with
most others.
Go figure!
A thought provoking writer, at least, and well worth reading, even if
you disagree.
No delicious literary siren like Dawkins of course, (is anyone?), but
highly literate nonetheless (for a bloody yank)
So many books, so little time. I just ordered a book by Victor Stenger:
"God -- the Failed Hypothesis: How Science Shows That God Does Not Exist"
http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/vstenger/
Plus I have a whole pile already waiting to get read.
You can't read entire pier supports, mate.
--
I'll have to dock you a day's pay for that, sailor.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Ellen Johnson (President of American Atheists) On Her Appearance on the Paula Zahn Show |
22 Feb 2007 02:10:43 AM |
|
|
On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 21:41:35 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-EF471E.21413521022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <ugspt21ci6ac4v7s1k9supsj0ali9slkh8@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 10:41:27 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-EC7727.10412721022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <r11ot2t8isd83ufflc0hupjgkqockpova5@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 14:34:21 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-7966C4.14342120022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <sk6lt258kcuqtc6q9bv25imnummj7a01o9@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 20:21:52 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-6BEBBC.20215219022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <44pkt25khumb6kme9lhh0k6cs0o5nuhe3f@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 21:58:05 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-B8EA37.21580518022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <c2ait2po73anrg20grepbsj9p9g3uva3jk@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:44:47 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-267F41.16444718022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <fhkgt29q8vq5vur7j1jlrrosbs834ts5nv@4ax.com>,
Ben Kaufman <spaXm-mXe-anXd-paXy-5000-dollars@pobox.com> wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 22:05:45 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
In article <T-udnQz7LrLYBkrYnZ2dnUVZ_oernZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
http://www.atheists.org/
I watched that the other night. When the preacher asked Ellen
Johnson
where do atheists get their morals, I wished that she had
pointed
to
her
head and said: "Right here. Human reason."
Maybe she was holding back on the trigger to point out that
Man
has
created
the
morals and the vengeful God enforcer to go along with them.
Ben
That's true historically, but I think he meant where do we get
them
now.
The fundies often claim that since atheists don't have
"God-given"
morals we think it's OK to murder, steal, lie, etc. Of course
that's a
sack of crap, but they keep on repeating the same lies over and
over.
Which Dawkins demolishes with supreme efficiency!
--
He does and so do many others. We don't need gods to figure out how
to
behave. Don't hit me and I won't hit you was probably how
'morality'
started.
More like in close knit tribes: many of my genes are inside you too,
so shared genes that promote altruism will naturally increase in
frequency.
If I kill you, then I prevent you from spreading many of my genes.
Altruism is mathematically inevitable in a group with shared genes,
who are also capable of individual kin recognition.
That would be a genetic origin of altruism. If people killed off
member
of their own group willy nilly, that would be a poor survivability
trait. I think that in the development of 'morals' or appropriate
behavior, culture might have had something to do with it too.
Steven Pinker has some very convincing stuff on the evolution of
morals. (Altruism and Morals are pretty much different views of the
same thing anyway, in my opinion).
Unfortuantely I only have it print, and I ain't about to retype it
today!
--
I've heard of him. He wrote "The Blank Slate" which may deal with
similar topics. I haven't read the book yet.
He's both excellent and then infuriating, at times.
I strongly disagree with some of his opinions, but strongly agree with
most others.
Go figure!
A thought provoking writer, at least, and well worth reading, even if
you disagree.
No delicious literary siren like Dawkins of course, (is anyone?), but
highly literate nonetheless (for a bloody yank)
So many books, so little time. I just ordered a book by Victor Stenger:
"God -- the Failed Hypothesis: How Science Shows That God Does Not Exist"
http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/vstenger/
Plus I have a whole pile already waiting to get read.
You can't read entire pier supports, mate.
--
I'll have to dock you a day's pay for that, sailor.
Oh bollards! I mast harbour moor resentment for you now.
Sling yer 'ook lad, or I'll deck ye!
--
.
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Ellen Johnson (President of American Atheists) On Her Appearance on the Paula Zahn Show |
22 Feb 2007 05:45:55 PM |
|
|
In article <6sjqt2dmq4t9tts67tbl3rabkr3usk0fpi@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 21:41:35 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-EF471E.21413521022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <ugspt21ci6ac4v7s1k9supsj0ali9slkh8@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 10:41:27 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-EC7727.10412721022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <r11ot2t8isd83ufflc0hupjgkqockpova5@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 14:34:21 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-7966C4.14342120022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <sk6lt258kcuqtc6q9bv25imnummj7a01o9@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 20:21:52 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-6BEBBC.20215219022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <44pkt25khumb6kme9lhh0k6cs0o5nuhe3f@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 21:58:05 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-B8EA37.21580518022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <c2ait2po73anrg20grepbsj9p9g3uva3jk@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:44:47 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-267F41.16444718022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <fhkgt29q8vq5vur7j1jlrrosbs834ts5nv@4ax.com>,
Ben Kaufman <spaXm-mXe-anXd-paXy-5000-dollars@pobox.com>
wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 22:05:45 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
In article <T-udnQz7LrLYBkrYnZ2dnUVZ_oernZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
http://www.atheists.org/
I watched that the other night. When the preacher asked
Ellen
Johnson
where do atheists get their morals, I wished that she had
pointed
to
her
head and said: "Right here. Human reason."
Maybe she was holding back on the trigger to point out that
Man
has
created
the
morals and the vengeful God enforcer to go along with
them.
Ben
That's true historically, but I think he meant where do we
get
them
now.
The fundies often claim that since atheists don't have
"God-given"
morals we think it's OK to murder, steal, lie, etc. Of course
that's a
sack of crap, but they keep on repeating the same lies over
and
over.
Which Dawkins demolishes with supreme efficiency!
--
He does and so do many others. We don't need gods to figure out
how
to
behave. Don't hit me and I won't hit you was probably how
'morality'
started.
More like in close knit tribes: many of my genes are inside you
too,
so shared genes that promote altruism will naturally increase in
frequency.
If I kill you, then I prevent you from spreading many of my
genes.
Altruism is mathematically inevitable in a group with shared
genes,
who are also capable of individual kin recognition.
That would be a genetic origin of altruism. If people killed off
member
of their own group willy nilly, that would be a poor survivability
trait. I think that in the development of 'morals' or appropriate
behavior, culture might have had something to do with it too.
Steven Pinker has some very convincing stuff on the evolution of
morals. (Altruism and Morals are pretty much different views of the
same thing anyway, in my opinion).
Unfortuantely I only have it print, and I ain't about to retype it
today!
--
I've heard of him. He wrote "The Blank Slate" which may deal with
similar topics. I haven't read the book yet.
He's both excellent and then infuriating, at times.
I strongly disagree with some of his opinions, but strongly agree with
most others.
Go figure!
A thought provoking writer, at least, and well worth reading, even if
you disagree.
No delicious literary siren like Dawkins of course, (is anyone?), but
highly literate nonetheless (for a bloody yank)
So many books, so little time. I just ordered a book by Victor Stenger:
"God -- the Failed Hypothesis: How Science Shows That God Does Not Exist"
http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/vstenger/
Plus I have a whole pile already waiting to get read.
You can't read entire pier supports, mate.
--
I'll have to dock you a day's pay for that, sailor.
Oh bollards! I mast harbour moor resentment for you now.
Sling yer 'ook lad, or I'll deck ye!
--
Arrrrrr! Belay that! Hand me that bottle of port or I'll batten ye down
so hard ye'll see starboards!
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Ellen Johnson (President of American Atheists) On Her Appearance on the Paula Zahn Show |
22 Feb 2007 11:53:47 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 15:45:55 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-028700.15455522022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <6sjqt2dmq4t9tts67tbl3rabkr3usk0fpi@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 21:41:35 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-EF471E.21413521022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <ugspt21ci6ac4v7s1k9supsj0ali9slkh8@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 10:41:27 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-EC7727.10412721022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <r11ot2t8isd83ufflc0hupjgkqockpova5@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 14:34:21 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-7966C4.14342120022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <sk6lt258kcuqtc6q9bv25imnummj7a01o9@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 20:21:52 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-6BEBBC.20215219022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <44pkt25khumb6kme9lhh0k6cs0o5nuhe3f@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 21:58:05 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-B8EA37.21580518022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <c2ait2po73anrg20grepbsj9p9g3uva3jk@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:44:47 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-267F41.16444718022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <fhkgt29q8vq5vur7j1jlrrosbs834ts5nv@4ax.com>,
Ben Kaufman <spaXm-mXe-anXd-paXy-5000-dollars@pobox.com>
wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 22:05:45 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
In article <T-udnQz7LrLYBkrYnZ2dnUVZ_oernZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
http://www.atheists.org/
I watched that the other night. When the preacher asked
Ellen
Johnson
where do atheists get their morals, I wished that she had
pointed
to
her
head and said: "Right here. Human reason."
Maybe she was holding back on the trigger to point out that
Man
has
created
the
morals and the vengeful God enforcer to go along with
them.
Ben
That's true historically, but I think he meant where do we
get
them
now.
The fundies often claim that since atheists don't have
"God-given"
morals we think it's OK to murder, steal, lie, etc. Of course
that's a
sack of crap, but they keep on repeating the same lies over
and
over.
Which Dawkins demolishes with supreme efficiency!
--
He does and so do many others. We don't need gods to figure out
how
to
behave. Don't hit me and I won't hit you was probably how
'morality'
started.
More like in close knit tribes: many of my genes are inside you
too,
so shared genes that promote altruism will naturally increase in
frequency.
If I kill you, then I prevent you from spreading many of my
genes.
Altruism is mathematically inevitable in a group with shared
genes,
who are also capable of individual kin recognition.
That would be a genetic origin of altruism. If people killed off
member
of their own group willy nilly, that would be a poor survivability
trait. I think that in the development of 'morals' or appropriate
behavior, culture might have had something to do with it too.
Steven Pinker has some very convincing stuff on the evolution of
morals. (Altruism and Morals are pretty much different views of the
same thing anyway, in my opinion).
Unfortuantely I only have it print, and I ain't about to retype it
today!
--
I've heard of him. He wrote "The Blank Slate" which may deal with
similar topics. I haven't read the book yet.
He's both excellent and then infuriating, at times.
I strongly disagree with some of his opinions, but strongly agree with
most others.
Go figure!
A thought provoking writer, at least, and well worth reading, even if
you disagree.
No delicious literary siren like Dawkins of course, (is anyone?), but
highly literate nonetheless (for a bloody yank)
So many books, so little time. I just ordered a book by Victor Stenger:
"God -- the Failed Hypothesis: How Science Shows That God Does Not Exist"
http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/vstenger/
Plus I have a whole pile already waiting to get read.
You can't read entire pier supports, mate.
--
I'll have to dock you a day's pay for that, sailor.
Oh bollards! I mast harbour moor resentment for you now.
Sling yer 'ook lad, or I'll deck ye!
--
Arrrrrr! Belay that! Hand me that bottle of port or I'll batten ye down
so hard ye'll see starboards!
Bluto!! Is that you?
--
.
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Ellen Johnson (President of American Atheists) On Her Appearance on the Paula Zahn Show |
23 Feb 2007 01:24:57 PM |
|
|
In article <ka0tt2ld45qhvheqvv0bo0021a9idmgh08@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 15:45:55 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-028700.15455522022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <6sjqt2dmq4t9tts67tbl3rabkr3usk0fpi@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 21:41:35 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-EF471E.21413521022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <ugspt21ci6ac4v7s1k9supsj0ali9slkh8@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 10:41:27 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-EC7727.10412721022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <r11ot2t8isd83ufflc0hupjgkqockpova5@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 14:34:21 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-7966C4.14342120022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <sk6lt258kcuqtc6q9bv25imnummj7a01o9@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 20:21:52 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-6BEBBC.20215219022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <44pkt25khumb6kme9lhh0k6cs0o5nuhe3f@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 21:58:05 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-B8EA37.21580518022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <c2ait2po73anrg20grepbsj9p9g3uva3jk@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:44:47 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer:
<jhachmann-267F41.16444718022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <fhkgt29q8vq5vur7j1jlrrosbs834ts5nv@4ax.com>,
Ben Kaufman <spaXm-mXe-anXd-paXy-5000-dollars@pobox.com>
wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 22:05:45 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
In article
<T-udnQz7LrLYBkrYnZ2dnUVZ_oernZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
http://www.atheists.org/
I watched that the other night. When the preacher asked
Ellen
Johnson
where do atheists get their morals, I wished that she
had
pointed
to
her
head and said: "Right here. Human reason."
Maybe she was holding back on the trigger to point out
that
Man
has
created
the
morals and the vengeful God enforcer to go along with
them.
Ben
That's true historically, but I think he meant where do we
get
them
now.
The fundies often claim that since atheists don't have
"God-given"
morals we think it's OK to murder, steal, lie, etc. Of
course
that's a
sack of crap, but they keep on repeating the same lies
over
and
over.
Which Dawkins demolishes with supreme efficiency!
--
He does and so do many others. We don't need gods to figure
out
how
to
behave. Don't hit me and I won't hit you was probably how
'morality'
started.
More like in close knit tribes: many of my genes are inside
you
too,
so shared genes that promote altruism will naturally increase
in
frequency.
If I kill you, then I prevent you from spreading many of my
genes.
Altruism is mathematically inevitable in a group with shared
genes,
who are also capable of individual kin recognition.
That would be a genetic origin of altruism. If people killed off
member
of their own group willy nilly, that would be a poor
survivability
trait. I think that in the development of 'morals' or
appropriate
behavior, culture might have had something to do with it too.
Steven Pinker has some very convincing stuff on the evolution of
morals. (Altruism and Morals are pretty much different views of
the
same thing anyway, in my opinion).
Unfortuantely I only have it print, and I ain't about to retype
it
today!
--
I've heard of him. He wrote "The Blank Slate" which may deal with
similar topics. I haven't read the book yet.
He's both excellent and then infuriating, at times.
I strongly disagree with some of his opinions, but strongly agree
with
most others.
Go figure!
A thought provoking writer, at least, and well worth reading, even
if
you disagree.
No delicious literary siren like Dawkins of course, (is anyone?),
but
highly literate nonetheless (for a bloody yank)
So many books, so little time. I just ordered a book by Victor
Stenger:
"God -- the Failed Hypothesis: How Science Shows That God Does Not
Exist"
http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/vstenger/
Plus I have a whole pile already waiting to get read.
You can't read entire pier supports, mate.
--
I'll have to dock you a day's pay for that, sailor.
Oh bollards! I mast harbour moor resentment for you now.
Sling yer 'ook lad, or I'll deck ye!
--
Arrrrrr! Belay that! Hand me that bottle of port or I'll batten ye down
so hard ye'll see starboards!
Bluto!! Is that you?
--
It sure ain't Olive Oyl!
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Ellen Johnson (President of American Atheists) On Her Appearance on the Paula Zahn Show |
23 Feb 2007 05:34:23 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 11:24:57 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-8E0552.11245723022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <ka0tt2ld45qhvheqvv0bo0021a9idmgh08@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 15:45:55 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-028700.15455522022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <6sjqt2dmq4t9tts67tbl3rabkr3usk0fpi@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 21:41:35 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-EF471E.21413521022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <ugspt21ci6ac4v7s1k9supsj0ali9slkh8@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 10:41:27 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-EC7727.10412721022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <r11ot2t8isd83ufflc0hupjgkqockpova5@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 14:34:21 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-7966C4.14342120022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <sk6lt258kcuqtc6q9bv25imnummj7a01o9@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 20:21:52 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-6BEBBC.20215219022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <44pkt25khumb6kme9lhh0k6cs0o5nuhe3f@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 21:58:05 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-B8EA37.21580518022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <c2ait2po73anrg20grepbsj9p9g3uva3jk@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:44:47 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer:
<jhachmann-267F41.16444718022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <fhkgt29q8vq5vur7j1jlrrosbs834ts5nv@4ax.com>,
Ben Kaufman <spaXm-mXe-anXd-paXy-5000-dollars@pobox.com>
wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 22:05:45 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
In article
<T-udnQz7LrLYBkrYnZ2dnUVZ_oernZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
http://www.atheists.org/
I watched that the other night. When the preacher asked
Ellen
Johnson
where do atheists get their morals, I wished that she
had
pointed
to
her
head and said: "Right here. Human reason."
Maybe she was holding back on the trigger to point out
that
Man
has
created
the
morals and the vengeful God enforcer to go along with
them.
Ben
That's true historically, but I think he meant where do we
get
them
now.
The fundies often claim that since atheists don't have
"God-given"
morals we think it's OK to murder, steal, lie, etc. Of
course
that's a
sack of crap, but they keep on repeating the same lies
over
and
over.
Which Dawkins demolishes with supreme efficiency!
--
He does and so do many others. We don't need gods to figure
out
how
to
behave. Don't hit me and I won't hit you was probably how
'morality'
started.
More like in close knit tribes: many of my genes are inside
you
too,
so shared genes that promote altruism will naturally increase
in
frequency.
If I kill you, then I prevent you from spreading many of my
genes.
Altruism is mathematically inevitable in a group with shared
genes,
who are also capable of individual kin recognition.
That would be a genetic origin of altruism. If people killed off
member
of their own group willy nilly, that would be a poor
survivability
trait. I think that in the development of 'morals' or
appropriate
behavior, culture might have had something to do with it too.
Steven Pinker has some very convincing stuff on the evolution of
morals. (Altruism and Morals are pretty much different views of
the
same thing anyway, in my opinion).
Unfortuantely I only have it print, and I ain't about to retype
it
today!
--
I've heard of him. He wrote "The Blank Slate" which may deal with
similar topics. I haven't read the book yet.
He's both excellent and then infuriating, at times.
I strongly disagree with some of his opinions, but strongly agree
with
most others.
Go figure!
A thought provoking writer, at least, and well worth reading, even
if
you disagree.
No delicious literary siren like Dawkins of course, (is anyone?),
but
highly literate nonetheless (for a bloody yank)
So many books, so little time. I just ordered a book by Victor
Stenger:
"God -- the Failed Hypothesis: How Science Shows That God Does Not
Exist"
http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/vstenger/
Plus I have a whole pile already waiting to get read.
You can't read entire pier supports, mate.
--
I'll have to dock you a day's pay for that, sailor.
Oh bollards! I mast harbour moor resentment for you now.
Sling yer 'ook lad, or I'll deck ye!
--
Arrrrrr! Belay that! Hand me that bottle of port or I'll batten ye down
so hard ye'll see starboards!
Bluto!! Is that you?
--
It sure ain't Olive Oyl!
Do that thing with your eye again.
Pop it out for me.
--
.
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Ellen Johnson (President of American Atheists) On Her Appearance on the Paula Zahn Show |
23 Feb 2007 11:19:26 PM |
|
|
In article <3fuut2137d87ja5j888s5grdgba99gfs0r@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 11:24:57 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-8E0552.11245723022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <ka0tt2ld45qhvheqvv0bo0021a9idmgh08@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 15:45:55 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-028700.15455522022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <6sjqt2dmq4t9tts67tbl3rabkr3usk0fpi@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 21:41:35 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-EF471E.21413521022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <ugspt21ci6ac4v7s1k9supsj0ali9slkh8@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 10:41:27 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-EC7727.10412721022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <r11ot2t8isd83ufflc0hupjgkqockpova5@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 14:34:21 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-7966C4.14342120022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <sk6lt258kcuqtc6q9bv25imnummj7a01o9@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 20:21:52 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-6BEBBC.20215219022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <44pkt25khumb6kme9lhh0k6cs0o5nuhe3f@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 21:58:05 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer:
<jhachmann-B8EA37.21580518022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <c2ait2po73anrg20grepbsj9p9g3uva3jk@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:44:47 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer:
<jhachmann-267F41.16444718022007@news.giganews.com>
In article
<fhkgt29q8vq5vur7j1jlrrosbs834ts5nv@4ax.com>,
Ben Kaufman
<spaXm-mXe-anXd-paXy-5000-dollars@pobox.com>
wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 22:05:45 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
In article
<T-udnQz7LrLYBkrYnZ2dnUVZ_oernZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
http://www.atheists.org/
I watched that the other night. When the preacher
asked
Ellen
Johnson
where do atheists get their morals, I wished that
she
had
pointed
to
her
head and said: "Right here. Human reason."
Maybe she was holding back on the trigger to point
out
that
Man
has
created
the
morals and the vengeful God enforcer to go along
with
them.
Ben
That's true historically, but I think he meant where do
we
get
them
now.
The fundies often claim that since atheists don't have
"God-given"
morals we think it's OK to murder, steal, lie, etc. Of
course
that's a
sack of crap, but they keep on repeating the same lies
over
and
over.
Which Dawkins demolishes with supreme efficiency!
--
He does and so do many others. We don't need gods to
figure
out
how
to
behave. Don't hit me and I won't hit you was probably how
'morality'
started.
More like in close knit tribes: many of my genes are inside
you
too,
so shared genes that promote altruism will naturally
increase
in
frequency.
If I kill you, then I prevent you from spreading many of my
genes.
Altruism is mathematically inevitable in a group with
shared
genes,
who are also capable of individual kin recognition.
That would be a genetic origin of altruism. If people killed
off
member
of their own group willy nilly, that would be a poor
survivability
trait. I think that in the development of 'morals' or
appropriate
behavior, culture might have had something to do with it too.
Steven Pinker has some very convincing stuff on the evolution
of
morals. (Altruism and Morals are pretty much different views
of
the
same thing anyway, in my opinion).
Unfortuantely I only have it print, and I ain't about to
retype
it
today!
--
I've heard of him. He wrote "The Blank Slate" which may deal
with
similar topics. I haven't read the book yet.
He's both excellent and then infuriating, at times.
I strongly disagree with some of his opinions, but strongly agree
with
most others.
Go figure!
A thought provoking writer, at least, and well worth reading,
even
if
you disagree.
No delicious literary siren like Dawkins of course, (is anyone?),
but
highly literate nonetheless (for a bloody yank)
So many books, so little time. I just ordered a book by Victor
Stenger:
"God -- the Failed Hypothesis: How Science Shows That God Does Not
Exist"
http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/vstenger/
Plus I have a whole pile already waiting to get read.
You can't read entire pier supports, mate.
--
I'll have to dock you a day's pay for that, sailor.
Oh bollards! I mast harbour moor resentment for you now.
Sling yer 'ook lad, or I'll deck ye!
--
Arrrrrr! Belay that! Hand me that bottle of port or I'll batten ye down
so hard ye'll see starboards!
Bluto!! Is that you?
--
It sure ain't Olive Oyl!
Do that thing with your eye again.
Pop it out for me.
--
Poit!
Oh no! Quick get it before it rolls down the drain!
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Ellen Johnson (President of American Atheists) On Her Appearance on the Paula Zahn Show |
24 Feb 2007 12:55:56 AM |
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On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 21:19:26 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-9408EA.21192623022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <3fuut2137d87ja5j888s5grdgba99gfs0r@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 11:24:57 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-8E0552.11245723022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <ka0tt2ld45qhvheqvv0bo0021a9idmgh08@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 15:45:55 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-028700.15455522022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <6sjqt2dmq4t9tts67tbl3rabkr3usk0fpi@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 21:41:35 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-EF471E.21413521022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <ugspt21ci6ac4v7s1k9supsj0ali9slkh8@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 10:41:27 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-EC7727.10412721022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <r11ot2t8isd83ufflc0hupjgkqockpova5@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 14:34:21 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-7966C4.14342120022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <sk6lt258kcuqtc6q9bv25imnummj7a01o9@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 20:21:52 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-6BEBBC.20215219022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <44pkt25khumb6kme9lhh0k6cs0o5nuhe3f@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 21:58:05 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer:
<jhachmann-B8EA37.21580518022007@news.giganews.com>
In article <c2ait2po73anrg20grepbsj9p9g3uva3jk@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:44:47 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer:
<jhachmann-267F41.16444718022007@news.giganews.com>
In article
<fhkgt29q8vq5vur7j1jlrrosbs834ts5nv@4ax.com>,
Ben Kaufman
<spaXm-mXe-anXd-paXy-5000-dollars@pobox.com>
wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 22:05:45 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
In article
<T-udnQz7LrLYBkrYnZ2dnUVZ_oernZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
http://www.atheists.org/
I watched that the other night. When the preacher
asked
Ellen
Johnson
where do atheists get their morals, I wished that
she
had
pointed
to
her
head and said: "Right here. Human reason."
Maybe she was holding back on the trigger to point
out
that
Man
has
created
the
morals and the vengeful God enforcer to go along
with
them.
Ben
That's true historically, but I think he meant where do
we
get
them
now.
The fundies often claim that since atheists don't have
"God-given"
morals we think it's OK to murder, steal, lie, etc. Of
course
that's a
sack of crap, but they keep on repeating the same lies
over
and
over.
Which Dawkins demolishes with supreme efficiency!
--
He does and so do many others. We don't need gods to
figure
out
how
to
behave. Don't hit me and I won't hit you was probably how
'morality'
started.
More like in close knit tribes: many of my genes are inside
you
too,
so shared genes that promote altruism will naturally
increase
in
frequency.
If I kill you, then I prevent you from spreading many of my
genes.
Altruism is mathematically inevitable in a group with
shared
genes,
who are also capable of individual kin recognition.
That would be a genetic origin of altruism. If people killed
off
member
of their own group willy nilly, that would be a poor
survivability
trait. I think that in the development of 'morals' or
appropriate
behavior, culture might have had something to do with it too.
Steven Pinker has some very convincing stuff on the evolution
of
morals. (Altruism and Morals are pretty much different views
of
the
same thing anyway, in my opinion).
Unfortuantely I only have it print, and I ain't about to
retype
it
today!
--
I've heard of him. He wrote "The Blank Slate" which may deal
with
similar topics. I haven't read the book yet.
He's both excellent and then infuriating, at times.
I strongly disagree with some of his opinions, but strongly agree
with
most others.
Go figure!
A thought provoking writer, at least, and well worth reading,
even
if
you disagree.
No delicious literary siren like Dawkins of course, (is anyone?),
but
highly literate nonetheless (for a bloody yank)
So many books, so little time. I just ordered a book by Victor
Stenger:
"God -- the Failed Hypothesis: How Science Shows That God Does Not
Exist"
http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/vstenger/
Plus I have a whole pile already waiting to get read.
You can't read entire pier supports, mate.
--
I'll have to dock you a day's pay for that, sailor.
Oh bollards! I mast harbour moor resentment for you now.
Sling yer 'ook lad, or I'll deck ye!
--
Arrrrrr! Belay that! Hand me that bottle of port or I'll batten ye down
so hard ye'll see starboards!
Bluto!! Is that you?
--
It sure ain't Olive Oyl!
Do that thing with your eye again.
Pop it out for me.
--
Poit!
Oh no! Quick get it before it rolls down the drain!
Lucky it wasn't your eye that you popped out!
--
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Ellen Johnson (President of American Atheists) On Her Appearance on the Paula Zahn Show |
24 Feb 2007 05:15:48 PM |
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In article <kaovt210nb36bqhsat6hd3mkak09odhfnm@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 21:19:26 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
