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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Randy Jabsco"
Date: 17 Dec 2003 04:12:40 AM
Object: e=mc2 and other fallacies
This one had me rolling....
===
On his website, www.ratbags.com/rsoles, the famed anti-quackery
crusader Peter Bowditch wrote;
Words have only one meaning ... (6/12/2003)
One of the sillier aspects of political correctness is how words take on
magical properties which imbue those words with power derived from the
letters or phonemes making up the words. As a postmodernist would say, there
is a conflation of signifier and signified in the matrix of mental space. A
recent case of this is the ban placed by some Californian authority on the
use of the words "master" and "slave" to describe, for example, the
relationship between multiple hard disk drives in a computer. I can see how
these expressions could cause alarm to the brain-dead, but surely the rest
of us know what the words mean. Similarly, there was a story some time ago
of a woman in a university English class who objected to the use of the word
"niggardly". The correct response from the university should have been to
point out that anyone who thought that this word was somehow racially
offensive had no place studying English in an institute of higher learning
and should instead be enrolled in a remedial language class.
In my experience, political correctness reaches its most amusing level in
feminism. Biologist Richard Dawkins wrote an essay in which he mentioned two
examples of such mindlessness that they would qualify the creators for Nobel
Prizes if such prizes were given for stupidity. One was a feminist critique
of Einstein, where the author rejected the equation "e=mc2" because it
somehow breached principles of equality by placing the speed of light in a
superior position to other physical measurements and therefore symbolising
patriarchy. (I am not making this up.) The other was an explanation of why
the complexity of turbulence is not as well understood as other features of
the universe. This is apparently because physics is male and the different
characteristics of the male and female genitalia determine that only rigid
things can be studied and understood because nothing else is important
enough to bother with. I have been told that women are not allowed to use
computers because "the computer is a penis" (this was in a textbook written
by one of my sociology lecturers!), and one of my fond memories of studying
with these loons was being told that "logic is a patriarchal construct and
has no place in women's experience".
This would be much funnier if these idiots were not in a position to teach
nonsense to our children. It is a real danger when people with no ability to
think at all, let alone think critically, have power over the lives of
others.
.

User: "Dr. DuFonet"

Title: Re: e=mc2 and other fallacies 17 Dec 2003 08:31:52 PM
"Randy Jabsco" <RandyJabsco@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:brpa4d$q11$0@pita.alt.net...

This one had me rolling....
===
On his website, www.ratbags.com/rsoles, the famed anti-quackery
crusader Peter Bowditch wrote;

Words have only one meaning ... (6/12/2003)

One of the sillier aspects of political correctness is how words take on
magical properties which imbue those words with power derived from the
letters or phonemes making up the words. As a postmodernist would say,

there

is a conflation of signifier and signified in the matrix of mental space.

A

recent case of this is the ban placed by some Californian authority on the
use of the words "master" and "slave" to describe, for example, the
relationship between multiple hard disk drives in a computer. I can see

how

these expressions could cause alarm to the brain-dead, but surely the rest
of us know what the words mean. Similarly, there was a story some time ago
of a woman in a university English class who objected to the use of the

word

"niggardly". The correct response from the university should have been to
point out that anyone who thought that this word was somehow racially
offensive had no place studying English in an institute of higher learning
and should instead be enrolled in a remedial language class.

In my experience, political correctness reaches its most amusing level in
feminism. Biologist Richard Dawkins wrote an essay in which he mentioned

two

examples of such mindlessness that they would qualify the creators for

Nobel

Prizes if such prizes were given for stupidity. One was a feminist

critique

of Einstein, where the author rejected the equation "e=mc2" because it
somehow breached principles of equality by placing the speed of light in a
superior position to other physical measurements and therefore symbolising
patriarchy. (I am not making this up.) The other was an explanation of why
the complexity of turbulence is not as well understood as other features

of

the universe. This is apparently because physics is male and the different
characteristics of the male and female genitalia determine that only rigid
things can be studied and understood because nothing else is important
enough to bother with. I have been told that women are not allowed to use
computers because "the computer is a penis" (this was in a textbook

written

by one of my sociology lecturers!), and one of my fond memories of

studying

with these loons was being told that "logic is a patriarchal construct and
has no place in women's experience".

This would be much funnier if these idiots were not in a position to teach
nonsense to our children. It is a real danger when people with no ability

to

think at all, let alone think critically, have power over the lives of
others.

Many of them are there to serve as provocateurs to detect those who might
hold similar views.
--
:"Everythin's better with DoFunny on it."
.

User: ""

Title: Re: e=mc2 and other fallacies 17 Dec 2003 09:58:57 AM
The problem is, those who would remove these people
would replace them with others just as stupid.
The only difference would be the particular stupidity
that is declared politically correct.
Randy Jabsco wrote:


This one had me rolling....
===
On his website, www.ratbags.com/rsoles, the famed anti-quackery
crusader Peter Bowditch wrote;

Words have only one meaning ... (6/12/2003)

One of the sillier aspects of political correctness is how words take on
magical properties which imbue those words with power derived from the
letters or phonemes making up the words. As a postmodernist would say, there
is a conflation of signifier and signified in the matrix of mental space. A
recent case of this is the ban placed by some Californian authority on the
use of the words "master" and "slave" to describe, for example, the
relationship between multiple hard disk drives in a computer. I can see how
these expressions could cause alarm to the brain-dead, but surely the rest
of us know what the words mean. Similarly, there was a story some time ago
of a woman in a university English class who objected to the use of the word
"niggardly". The correct response from the university should have been to
point out that anyone who thought that this word was somehow racially
offensive had no place studying English in an institute of higher learning
and should instead be enrolled in a remedial language class.

In my experience, political correctness reaches its most amusing level in
feminism. Biologist Richard Dawkins wrote an essay in which he mentioned two
examples of such mindlessness that they would qualify the creators for Nobel
Prizes if such prizes were given for stupidity. One was a feminist critique
of Einstein, where the author rejected the equation "e=mc2" because it
somehow breached principles of equality by placing the speed of light in a
superior position to other physical measurements and therefore symbolising
patriarchy. (I am not making this up.) The other was an explanation of why
the complexity of turbulence is not as well understood as other features of
the universe. This is apparently because physics is male and the different
characteristics of the male and female genitalia determine that only rigid
things can be studied and understood because nothing else is important
enough to bother with. I have been told that women are not allowed to use
computers because "the computer is a penis" (this was in a textbook written
by one of my sociology lecturers!), and one of my fond memories of studying
with these loons was being told that "logic is a patriarchal construct and
has no place in women's experience".

This would be much funnier if these idiots were not in a position to teach
nonsense to our children. It is a real danger when people with no ability to
think at all, let alone think critically, have power over the lives of
others.

.
User: "B9"

Title: Howard Dean hosts KKK fund raiser 17 Dec 2003 11:35:18 AM
Media Mum on Dean's 'KKK' Fund Raiser
There's little doubt that if Howard Dean were a Republican, he'd be
announcing his withdrawal from the presidential race this week, as
details from a recent Dean rally - so ripe with racism it would make a
Ku Klux Klansman blush - have begun seeping into print.
Since Dean is a Democrat, however, at least one prominent media
columnist is saying it's no big deal that the entertainment for the
ex-Vermont governor's Dec. 8 event included "N"-word jokes, imitations
of Condoleezza Rice in an Amos 'n Andy accent and references to the
president of the United States as a "piece of living, breathing s--t."
Credit for breaking the media embargo on Howard Dean's KKK-style
Manhattan fund raiser goes to the New York Post's Deborah Orin, who
first noted the "N"-word references last week, then fleshed out the
details in a Post op-ed piece yesterday. [Why an op-ed, when this
story belongs on the front page? But that's another matter.]
The details of what passed for entertainment at the Dean rally are as
ugly as they come. Here are a few of the lowlights, according to Orin:
"Comedian David Cross used the N-word for blacks in a disjointed
'joke' apparently based on the premise that it's fine for a pro-Dean
comic to use racial epithets as long as the goal is to claim
Republicans are racists."
"Sandra Bernhard insulted Condoleezza Rice in racial terms with a 'Yes
Massa' accent at another Dean fundraiser the same night."
"Dean rival Joe Lieberman got ridiculed for being unable to campaign
on Jewish holidays because he's Orthodox."
"[Vice President *****] Cheney's daughter Mary, who is gay, was called
'a big lezzie.'"
"Comic Judy Gold dissed President Bush as 'this piece of living,
breathing s---' and Janeane Garofalo ridiculed the Medicare
prescription-drug bill that Bush had just signed as the 'you can go
f--- yourself, Grandma' bill."
As the New York-style Klan rally continued, the Democratic
front-runner was said to be "fuming" backstage.
But Dean did nothing to interrupt the proceedings, and certainly
hasn't returned any of the campaign cash he collected from the folks
who found the anti-black humor so amusing.
Neither has Dean issued a public apology, or pledged that those
"comedians" who made racially offensive statements will be barred from
all future Dean events.
When asked about the outrageous comments delivered at an event held in
his name, the Vermont Democrat said only that some of the language was
"wrong," then added meekly, "I don't have much tolerance for ethnic
humor."
So, why hasn't the press jumped ugly with Dean? Maybe it's because
they don't find the racist rants delivered in his honor any more
offensive than he does.
Washington Post media critic Howard Kurtz offered a clue into the
media's take on the racist rally, dismissing the episode in his
Wednesday column by joking, "I, for one, am shocked at comedians using
bad language."
GOP Congressman Peter King was less forgiving, telling Orin: "It's
disgraceful. It's like an Upper West Side Manhattan left-wing Ku Klux
Klan mentality. If some Southern redneck talked like this about a
liberal, everyone would denounce it. But because it's Upper West Side
humor, somehow it's supposed to be chic."
.
User: "Jonathan"

Title: Re: Howard Dean hosts KKK fund raiser 31 Dec 2003 11:18:24 AM
B9 <blah@blah.blah> wrote in message news:<9s41uvkvr8ck41pi593mqgju1eka7tc0il@4ax.com>...

Media Mum on Dean's 'KKK' Fund Raiser

There's little doubt that if Howard Dean were a Republican, he'd be
announcing his withdrawal from the presidential race this week, as
details from a recent Dean rally - so ripe with racism it would make a
Ku Klux Klansman blush - have begun seeping into print.

<snip>

Ok bottom line - In America today, if you have a 'D' in front of your
name, you can do ALMOST no wrong.
You can be an ex Klan leader, but if you say your sorry, and put a
couple blacks on your staff, ALL is forgiven.
That is not the same if you have a 'R' in front of your name.
Howard Dean, political IDIOT, stated that Nixon divided the races and
won in 1968. Howard Dean, you are a fucking idiot! Nixon did more for
black business mean and women than did LBJ! Nixon founded with his
own money, black business groups and foundations. Every year down in
Orange County Ca., they hold a dinner in Nixon's name ... bet CNN
didn't want to cover that one!
Ronald Reagan once sleept outside in his car, because the hotel that
he had pulled into would not accept colored guests. Betcha BET won't
air a story about that one!
America ... you are in trouble. You are letting all the lunitic,
marxist, Socialist, athiest, sub-culturalist, extremists run this
country. The mess-medail is primarily socialist. The news we get
from NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, MSNBC is primarily skewed to the left. Only
FOX-News is to be believed and that is only HALF the time.
Peggy has two mommies ... is the norm. Billy has two daddys in the
norm. God out of the classroom and the condoms and abortions in ...
is the norm ... we are sinking, and most people in this country are
too fucking dumb to understand it.
Well I no longer care about this nation. My only concern is myself
and my family. That it. Why invest in a sinking ship? Why believe
ANY politition whos primary focus is themselves, their re-election,
and their taxation of the citizens which are really designed to keep
people set in controllable economic brackets!
Why do I want to invest in a court sytem that does anything it can to
subvert the bill of rights and the rest of the constitution?
Freedom of speach is great if you NAACP or ACLU ... but your civil
liberties end if you say something "politically incorrect". You lose
your job or you can't get a promotion. Lets see, you are John Rooker
MLB pitcher. You make a statement that you don't want to ride New
York subways because of the crime, and disease. Because of the
criminals on those subways ... then you are subjected to being a
biggot and losing your job!
***** New York. I would never want to ride its subways for the same
reasons that John Rocker pointed out. Why make yourself a target?
I don't want to be around people carrying disease, or dirty needles,
or preying upon me.
Well if you are Democrat, you get a free pass ... if you are a
Republican you better wathc EVERY word you say!
Myself, I don't believe in either party. They are both "dog and pony"
shows. They both wan't to tax tax tax spend spend spend and subjugate
subjugate subjugate its citizens!
.
User: "Mr. N"

Title: Re: Howard Dean hosts KKK fund raiser 31 Dec 2003 01:10:41 PM
"Jonathan" <ghettopoly@juno.com> wrote in message
news:448968e8.0312310918.19d3e38f@posting.google.com...

America ... you are in trouble. You are letting all the lunitic,
marxist, Socialist, athiest, sub-culturalist, extremists run this
country.

Indeed. Those damned Republicans have control over the White House and
Congress both.

The mess-medail is primarily socialist.

Interesting how they swing that with all the capitalism they engage in.
Do you even know what the word "socialist" means?

The news we get from NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, MSNBC is primarily skewed to the

left.
How so? Or is your definition of "skewed to the left" something like "not
blatantly skewed to the right"?

Peggy has two mommies ... is the norm.

Well, no it isn't. It is however *a* norm for those families that
experience same-gender parents.

Billy has two daddys in the norm.

Really? Where the heck do you live?

God out of the classroom

Sorry, you can't take God out of the classroom. God doesn't play that.

and the condoms and abortions in ...

Hmm. I went to public schools, my daughter goes to a public school, and I
know of no condoms nor abortions happening there.

we are sinking

Well certainly YOU are - into a deluded, psychotic depression. Get some
help.

Well I no longer care about this nation.

That's too bad, really. The rest of us continue to think that this is a
great nation.
Why do you hate America?

Why do I want to invest in a court sytem that does anything it can to
subvert the bill of rights and the rest of the constitution?

It isn't the court system that's doing that. Take a look at the Executive
and Legislative branches currently in power for that one.

Freedom of speach is great if you NAACP or ACLU ...

Actually it's great no matter who you are.

but your civil liberties end if you say something "politically incorrect".

Like opposing the war in Iraq you mean?]
Or criticizing the President?
Or saying that the 9/11 hijackers might be a lot of things, but "cowards"
isn't one of them?
Yes, the right-wing sure does care more about political correctness than
civil liberties, I agree.
Good news - the right wing isn't "America".

***** New York.

And New York sez: ***** you, too!

Well if you are Democrat, you get a free pass ...

LOL - responsible Americans (that's most of us) don't give ANYONE a 'free
pass', regardless of what political party they belong to.
--
-My Real Name
.

User: "Douglas Berry"

Title: Re: Howard Dean hosts KKK fund raiser 31 Dec 2003 09:26:41 PM
Lo, many moons past, on 31 Dec 2003 09:18:24 -0800, a stranger called
by some
(Jonathan) came forth and told this tale
in alt.atheism

America ... you are in trouble. You are letting all the lunitic,
marxist, Socialist, athiest, sub-culturalist, extremists run this
country. The mess-medail is primarily socialist. The news we get
from NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, MSNBC is primarily skewed to the left. Only
FOX-News is to be believed and that is only HALF the time.

This explains George W. Bush and the current Republican majority in
both houses. It's the bloody socilists and atheists electing these
reactionary fundamentalists.

Peggy has two mommies ... is the norm. Billy has two daddys in the
norm. God out of the classroom and the condoms and abortions in ...
is the norm ... we are sinking, and most people in this country are
too fucking dumb to understand it.

You have churches, right? You can read the Bible with your families,
yes?
Schools are supposed to teach skills like reading, writing and math.
The US is already abyssamlly low in those categories. But you want to
waste more of the school day with religious instruction?
Oh, and there is no evidence that being raised by two gay parents has
any harmful effect. There have been hundreds of studies on this. One
parent households, like the ones created when straight parents split
up, are harmful.

Well I no longer care about this nation. My only concern is myself
and my family. That it. Why invest in a sinking ship? Why believe
ANY politition whos primary focus is themselves, their re-election,
and their taxation of the citizens which are really designed to keep
people set in controllable economic brackets!

You can leave. Now. I don't want quitters like you around my nation.

Why do I want to invest in a court sytem that does anything it can to
subvert the bill of rights and the rest of the constitution?

And what rights have you lost?

Freedom of speach is great if you NAACP or ACLU ... but your civil
liberties end if you say something "politically incorrect". You lose
your job or you can't get a promotion. Lets see, you are John Rooker
MLB pitcher. You make a statement that you don't want to ride New
York subways because of the crime, and disease. Because of the
criminals on those subways ... then you are subjected to being a
biggot and losing your job!

Rocker's comments:
"The biggest thing I don't like about New York are the foreigners. I'm
not a very big fan of foreigners. You can walk an entire block in
Times Square and not hear anybody speaking English. Asians and Koreans
and Vietnamese and Indians and Russians and Spanish people and
everything up there. How the hell did they get in this country?"
Nothing about crime there. And he was sent down to the minors because
he suddenly got very wild, and either gave up hits or walked people.

***** New York. I would never want to ride its subways for the same
reasons that John Rocker pointed out. Why make yourself a target?

From what people say, you'd assume that the daily body count on the
subways excede that of D-Day, but it doesn't happen. The bloody
things are pretty safe, as is any mass transit system.

I don't want to be around people carrying disease, or dirty needles,
or preying upon me.

Then leave human civilization.

Well if you are Democrat, you get a free pass ... if you are a
Republican you better wathc EVERY word you say!

Because the GOP is the one on the high moral horse. You calim to be
wearing stainless armor of purity, those rust stains become pretty
glaring. Just ask Henry Hyde.

Myself, I don't believe in either party. They are both "dog and pony"
shows. They both wan't to tax tax tax spend spend spend and subjugate
subjugate subjugate its citizens!

Then why are you still here?
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
.

User: "B9"

Title: Re: Howard Dean hosts KKK fund raiser 31 Dec 2003 02:15:47 PM
On 31 Dec 2003 09:18:24 -0800,
(Jonathan) wrote:

Howard Dean, political IDIOT, stated that Nixon divided the races and
won in 1968. Howard Dean, you are a fucking idiot!

T'was the Republicans 1964 that broke the 54 day filibuster launched
by Dixiecrat Al Gore, Sr. to block a vote on the Civil Rights
Ammendment. LBJ grudgingly signed it into law. Abe Lincoln was a
Republican. Bush has appointed more minorities than Clinton and Carter
put together. But today 90% of blacks vote Democrat. Clearly, the
promise of a handout outweighs gratitude for their freedom.
I heard Dean nonchalantly suggest that it was Bush who broke the
carefully concocted anti-nuke treaty Clinton had with the N. Koreans!
All Bush did was confront the Koreans with evidence that they were
cheating. It was the Koreans who responded by admitting that they had
always been cheating on the treaty and then *they* unilaterally
withdrew.
And by the way, where are all those concerned Nuclear Freeze
protestors now that N. Korea and Iran want a bomb in violation of UN
wishes? Shouldn't they have a 24/7 protest vigil infront of both those
embassies?
These are the same folks who marched in the streets for a mere freeze
on production of additional nuke weapons. But curse Ron Reagan even
though in the end he went them one better and actually made drastic
reductions in our arsenal.
And where are all the concerned human shields who claimed that all
they wanted to do his help the poor Iraqi's. Why haven't they returned
to lend a hand rebuilding?
Oh the hypocracy is so thick these days folks. Leftists have a lot of
explaining to do for all their failures to deliver on their rhetoric
over the decades.
.


User: "Bob"

Title: Re: Howard Dean hosts KKK fund raiser 17 Dec 2003 12:39:03 PM
B9 wrote:

Media Mum on Dean's 'KKK' Fund Raiser

There's little doubt that if Howard Dean were a Republican, he'd be
announcing his withdrawal from the presidential race this week, as
details from a recent Dean rally - so ripe with racism it would make a
Ku Klux Klansman blush - have begun seeping into print.

Is this the same Dean who got into trouble with the Democratic Party a
couple of weeks ago for saying that the "Big Tent" was large enough to
include southern MEN who drive pickup trucks with confederate flag
stickers?

Since Dean is a Democrat, however, at least one prominent media
columnist is saying it's no big deal that the entertainment for the
ex-Vermont governor's Dec. 8 event included "N"-word jokes, imitations
of Condoleezza Rice in an Amos 'n Andy accent and references to the
president of the United States as a "piece of living, breathing s--t."

Credit for breaking the media embargo on Howard Dean's KKK-style
Manhattan fund raiser goes to the New York Post's Deborah Orin, who
first noted the "N"-word references last week, then fleshed out the
details in a Post op-ed piece yesterday. [Why an op-ed, when this
story belongs on the front page? But that's another matter.]

The details of what passed for entertainment at the Dean rally are as
ugly as they come. Here are a few of the lowlights, according to Orin:

"Comedian David Cross used the N-word for blacks in a disjointed
'joke' apparently based on the premise that it's fine for a pro-Dean
comic to use racial epithets as long as the goal is to claim
Republicans are racists."

"Sandra Bernhard insulted Condoleezza Rice in racial terms with a 'Yes
Massa' accent at another Dean fundraiser the same night."

"Dean rival Joe Lieberman got ridiculed for being unable to campaign
on Jewish holidays because he's Orthodox."

"[Vice President *****] Cheney's daughter Mary, who is gay, was called
'a big lezzie.'"

"Comic Judy Gold dissed President Bush as 'this piece of living,
breathing s---' and Janeane Garofalo ridiculed the Medicare
prescription-drug bill that Bush had just signed as the 'you can go
f--- yourself, Grandma' bill."

As the New York-style Klan rally continued, the Democratic
front-runner was said to be "fuming" backstage.

But Dean did nothing to interrupt the proceedings, and certainly
hasn't returned any of the campaign cash he collected from the folks
who found the anti-black humor so amusing.

Neither has Dean issued a public apology, or pledged that those
"comedians" who made racially offensive statements will be barred from
all future Dean events.

When asked about the outrageous comments delivered at an event held in
his name, the Vermont Democrat said only that some of the language was
"wrong," then added meekly, "I don't have much tolerance for ethnic
humor."

So, why hasn't the press jumped ugly with Dean? Maybe it's because
they don't find the racist rants delivered in his honor any more
offensive than he does.

Washington Post media critic Howard Kurtz offered a clue into the
media's take on the racist rally, dismissing the episode in his
Wednesday column by joking, "I, for one, am shocked at comedians using
bad language."

GOP Congressman Peter King was less forgiving, telling Orin: "It's
disgraceful. It's like an Upper West Side Manhattan left-wing Ku Klux
Klan mentality. If some Southern redneck talked like this about a
liberal, everyone would denounce it. But because it's Upper West Side
humor, somehow it's supposed to be chic."

.

User: "Douglas Berry"

Title: Re: Howard Dean hosts KKK fund raiser 17 Dec 2003 02:06:33 PM
Lo, many moons past, on Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:35:18 -0500, a stranger
called by some B9 <blah@blah.blah> came forth and told this tale in
alt.atheism

Media Mum on Dean's 'KKK' Fund Raiser

Just out of curiosity.. was the event sported by the KKK? Were
members of the KKK in attendance? Anybody wear a sheet? Or are you
just stirring up *****.
Did it go over the edge? Oh, yes.
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
.
User: "Al Klein"

Title: Re: Howard Dean hosts KKK fund raiser 30 Dec 2003 11:43:35 PM
On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:06:33 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> posted in alt.atheism:

Lo, many moons past, on Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:35:18 -0500, a stranger
called by some B9 <blah@blah.blah> came forth and told this tale in
alt.atheism

Media Mum on Dean's 'KKK' Fund Raiser

Just out of curiosity.. was the event sported by the KKK? Were
members of the KKK in attendance? Anybody wear a sheet? Or are you
just stirring up *****.

Since there was no attribution, maybe S/stirring/making
--
"So much blood has been shed by the Church because of an omission from the Gospel: "Ye
shall be indifferent as to what your neighbor's religion is." Not merely tolerant of it,
but indifferent to it. Divinity is claimed for many religions; but no religion is great
enough or divine enough to add that new law to its code."
- Mark Twain, a Biography
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
.

User: "B9"

Title: Re: Howard Dean hosts KKK fund raiser 17 Dec 2003 03:16:44 PM
On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:06:33 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:

Just out of curiosity.. was the event sported by the KKK? Were
members of the KKK in attendance? Anybody wear a sheet? Or are you
just stirring up *****.

Just out of curiousity, what *is* the KKK?
I mean, it's not so much an organisation anymore, it's a mindset.
And it seems Dean and his followers have that sort of mindset.
Think: mean, hateful, spiteful, intolerant, uncompromising, prone to
excessive gratuitous brutality.
.
User: "Bob"

Title: Re: Howard Dean hosts KKK fund raiser 17 Dec 2003 03:34:44 PM
B9 wrote:

On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:06:33 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:


Just out of curiosity.. was the event sported by the KKK? Were
members of the KKK in attendance? Anybody wear a sheet? Or are you
just stirring up *****.


Just out of curiousity, what *is* the KKK?
I mean, it's not so much an organisation anymore, it's a mindset.

If you put those initials into your web browser, www.kkk.com, you find
an organization that will disagree with you on that. They do seem to be
an organization.
Were they in attendance at the Dean rally?

And it seems Dean and his followers have that sort of mindset.

Think: mean, hateful, spiteful, intolerant, uncompromising, prone to
excessive gratuitous brutality.

Think "nazi shouting idiot."
Bob
.
User: "B9"

Title: Re: Howard Dean hosts KKK fund raiser 17 Dec 2003 04:21:41 PM
On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 14:34:44 -0700, Bob <boby23456@hotmail.com> wrote:


Were they in attendance at the Dean rally?

Would it change your vote if they were?
.
User: "Douglas Berry"

Title: Re: Howard Dean hosts KKK fund raiser 18 Dec 2003 12:48:17 AM
Lo, many moons past, on Wed, 17 Dec 2003 17:21:41 -0500, a stranger
called by some B9 <blah@blah.blah> came forth and told this tale in
alt.atheism

On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 14:34:44 -0700, Bob <boby23456@hotmail.com> wrote:


Were they in attendance at the Dean rally?

Would it change your vote if they were?

Nothing to change yet. I'm still examining the candidates. I do like
what Dean has to say, and his track record in Vermont.
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
.
User: "B9"

Title: Re: Howard Dean hosts KKK fund raiser 18 Dec 2003 10:10:50 AM
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 06:48:17 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:

I'm still examining the candidates. I do like
what Dean has to say, and his track record in Vermont.

How ignorant are you if, at this point in history, you still haven't
formed an opinion one way or the other?
Do you think that being uncommital makes you seem more sophisticated,
open minded and "above the common fray"?
I have no respect for the undecided or independant voter at this stage
in the war to preserve Western Civilization.
Tough decision huh? Is Western Culture worth saving? Or should America
be dragged down to the level of the lowest third-world nation?
Yup, real hard to fathom. Why bother fighting for the culture that has
given mankind the highest standard of living in all of recorded
history? A culture that has fed and clothed and provided unparalleled
technology to the most number of humanity. Afterall, the Dark Ages
wasn't so bad. At least the environment was safe from Capitalism.
.
User: "Douglas Berry"

Title: Re: Howard Dean hosts KKK fund raiser 18 Dec 2003 11:41:07 AM
Lo, many moons past, on Thu, 18 Dec 2003 11:10:50 -0500, a stranger
called by some B9 <blah@blah.blah> came forth and told this tale in
alt.atheism

On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 06:48:17 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:

I'm still examining the candidates. I do like
what Dean has to say, and his track record in Vermont.


How ignorant are you if, at this point in history, you still haven't
formed an opinion one way or the other?

The California primary isn't for a another few months. I have
opinions, but you asked if I had changed my vote. I haven't decided
who to vote for yet. I rarely do that this early in a campaign. I
wait for the campaign to play out, read about the candidates, see what
their plans are, and how they conduct their campaigns.

Do you think that being uncommital makes you seem more sophisticated,
open minded and "above the common fray"?

No, it's just how I approach elections. It's the way I approach any
big decision.

I have no respect for the undecided or independant voter at this stage
in the war to preserve Western Civilization.

Ah. So we must all march in lock-step? Sorry, but that anathema to
western civilization.

Tough decision huh? Is Western Culture worth saving? Or should America
be dragged down to the level of the lowest third-world nation?

The thing is, I don't trust the current incarnation of the Republican
party at all. They have shown themselves to be the party of hate and
intolerance towards Americans who do not fit their vision of what an
American should be. They will not get my vote until things change.

Yup, real hard to fathom. Why bother fighting for the culture that has
given mankind the highest standard of living in all of recorded
history? A culture that has fed and clothed and provided unparalleled
technology to the most number of humanity. Afterall, the Dark Ages
wasn't so bad. At least the environment was safe from Capitalism.

Now you are simply ranting. I will note that some of the most rapid
changes in our technology happened under Democratic presidents. So
neither party can lay claim to that distinction.
We are not a European state. We are America. I grew up around kids
who spoke Vietnamese as their first language, and I learned from them.
The culture of my home is different from that of yours, and yet we are
all Americans. Your cultural war is not mine. I like the way we are
going. More freedom, for more people, and the free exchange of new
ideas.
That is the ideal I am fighting for.
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
.
User: "B9"

Title: Re: Howard Dean hosts KKK fund raiser 18 Dec 2003 04:10:59 PM

I like the way we are
going. More freedom, for more people, and the free exchange of new
ideas.

That is the ideal I am fighting for.

Great! Me too. So if Lieberman don't win the primary, I expect you'll
vote Republican. Cause that's the only way we'll continue on the path
destiny has set us upon. None of the other democrats have any belly
for prosecuting the war on terrorism. Dean least of all.
.
User: "Douglas Berry"

Title: Re: Howard Dean hosts KKK fund raiser 18 Dec 2003 09:24:06 PM
Lo, many moons past, on Thu, 18 Dec 2003 17:10:59 -0500, a stranger
called by some B9 <blah@blah.blah> came forth and told this tale in
alt.atheism

I like the way we are
going. More freedom, for more people, and the free exchange of new
ideas.

That is the ideal I am fighting for.


Great! Me too. So if Lieberman don't win the primary, I expect you'll
vote Republican. Cause that's the only way we'll continue on the path
destiny has set us upon. None of the other democrats have any belly
for prosecuting the war on terrorism. Dean least of all.

No. I will not vote for Bush. I voted for his father in 1988, but
not in 1992, because he lied about his tax pledge. Dubya has lied
constantly since coming into office.
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
.
User: "B9"

Title: Re: Howard Dean hosts KKK fund raiser 19 Dec 2003 08:07:58 AM
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 03:24:06 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:

I voted for his father in 1988, but
not in 1992, because he lied about his tax pledge. Dubya has lied
constantly since coming into office.

BWAHAHAHA...*****!
Somehow, you just don't sound like the kind of closet conservative
who'd cast a protest vote for Clinton just to punish Bush, Sr. for
raising taxes.
As for the president of liars, it was Clinton who was booted from the
legal bar because he perjured himself under oath while in office.
Democrats have short memories. But *genuine* conservates remember.
(Hint to members of the Donkey Party, Elephants never forget)
Here's a few more trivia points:
Fritz Hollings (Democrat) put the Confederate flag on the SC state
house, not some Republican.
Robert Byrd (Democrat) was a member of the KKK, recently used the
N-word TWICE on nationwide TV.
Al Gore, Sr. was the leading segregationist of the Dixiecrat wing of
the Democrat Party. If racism is "learned" at home, than Al Gore, Jr.
must surely be a racist, eh?
It was the Dixiecrats who stalled the Civil Rights Ammendment for 54
days in 1964 until the Republicans broke the filibuster.
It was JFK and Bobby Kennedy who ordered the FBI to dig up dirt on MLK
for his connection to the Communist Party.
George Wallace was a Democrat. So was Robert E. Lee and Jefferson
Davis.
It was FDR who built concentration camps to hold US citizens of
Japanese, German and Italian decent without trial.
It was Truman (Democrat) who dropped A-bombs on Japanese civilians.
Democrats of today want to rewrite history and hope that nobody
remembers the ugly truth. Fat chance. Most of the social injustices
committed over the last 100 years have been committed by DEMOCRATS,
not Republicans.
But hey, you just keep trying to spread the lie that Republicans are
mean spirited SOB's bent on poisoning the environment and starving
homeless children. There's always some dummy who'll buy into that lie.
.
User: "Douglas Berry"

Title: Re: Howard Dean hosts KKK fund raiser 19 Dec 2003 12:12:06 PM
Lo, many moons past, on Fri, 19 Dec 2003 09:07:58 -0500, a stranger
called by some B9 <blah@blah.blah> came forth and told this tale in
alt.atheism

On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 03:24:06 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:

I voted for his father in 1988, but
not in 1992, because he lied about his tax pledge. Dubya has lied
constantly since coming into office.


BWAHAHAHA...*****!
Somehow, you just don't sound like the kind of closet conservative
who'd cast a protest vote for Clinton just to punish Bush, Sr. for
raising taxes.

I didn't say it was a protest vote. I decided Clinton was a better
choice for President. Simple as that. And I'm a political moderate.

As for the president of liars, it was Clinton who was booted from the
legal bar because he perjured himself under oath while in office.

Yup. All because the GOP could handle a President who got more *****
than they did. That entire fiasco was poorly written comedy. After
all that, they GOP controlled Senate couldn't even muster a simple
majority in the trial.

Democrats have short memories. But *genuine* conservates remember.
(Hint to members of the Donkey Party, Elephants never forget)

That's a myth actually. If you want to remember, shall we go back to
Iran-Contra? The President of the United States sold weapons to Iran
(a violation of law) to fund the Contras (a violation of law) and then
lied about it. Not in a deposition, but to the American people while
sitting in the Oval Office. Several months later, he finally admitted
the truth.

Here's a few more trivia points:

Fritz Hollings (Democrat) put the Confederate flag on the SC state
house, not some Republican.

Yup.

Robert Byrd (Democrat) was a member of the KKK, recently used the
N-word TWICE on nationwide TV.

Yup.

Al Gore, Sr. was the leading segregationist of the Dixiecrat wing of
the Democrat Party. If racism is "learned" at home, than Al Gore, Jr.
must surely be a racist, eh?

Not really. Some people learn better. My late father was a bit of a
bigot. I'm not. Different environment growing up.

It was the Dixiecrats who stalled the Civil Rights Ammendment for 54
days in 1964 until the Republicans broke the filibuster.

Yup. Shocking the the Old Guard southerners would be in support of
segregation.

It was JFK and Bobby Kennedy who ordered the FBI to dig up dirt on MLK
for his connection to the Communist Party.

I've heard this before, but never seen proof. That sounds like J
Edgar Hoover's style.

George Wallace was a Democrat. So was Robert E. Lee and Jefferson
Davis.

George Wallace reniounced racism. And Democrat meant something very
different in the mid-19th century.

It was FDR who built concentration camps to hold US citizens of
Japanese, German and Italian decent without trial.

Yup. That was a mistake. It was Lincoln who illegally suspended
habeus corpus during the Civil War.

It was Truman (Democrat) who dropped A-bombs on Japanese civilians.

As oppossed to launching Operation Olympic, which would have killed
millions of Japanese civilians.. both in combat (they were issuing
spears to school children.. did you know that?) and from the
developing famine in the home islands. The atom bombs ended the war.

Democrats of today want to rewrite history and hope that nobody
remembers the ugly truth. Fat chance. Most of the social injustices
committed over the last 100 years have been committed by DEMOCRATS,
not Republicans.

Three words: Richard Milhouse Nixon.

But hey, you just keep trying to spread the lie that Republicans are
mean spirited SOB's bent on poisoning the environment and starving
homeless children. There's always some dummy who'll buy into that lie.

Considering what Reagan, Bush and Bush have done to environmental
laws, and to school programs, and to aid to families with dependant
children, I'll let the facts speak for themselves.
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
.
User: "B9"

Title: Re: Howard Dean hosts KKK fund raiser 20 Dec 2003 12:50:55 PM
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 18:12:06 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:

I decided Clinton was a better
choice for President. Simple as that. And I'm a political moderate.

Still trying to hide your true stripes? Or do you think pretending to
be "uncommited" to one side or the other makes you appear to be
intellectually superior to someone who has enough self understanding
to choose a side?


As for the president of liars, it was Clinton who was booted from the
legal bar because he perjured himself under oath while in office.


Yup. All because the GOP could handle a President who got more *****
than they did.

Ah, there you go. I knew the real partisan would eventually come out.
Why are leftists so ashamed of their ideology? Always hiding behind
labels. Marxists, Communists, Socialists, Liberals, Proressives, now
you wanna pretend to be "Moderates and Centrists".

shall we go back to
Iran-Contra?

You mean the American victory over Communism in Nicaraugua AND the
Soviet invasion of Afghanistan? The left is angry because Reagan
sidestepped their efforts to stymie US foreign policy. Boo hoo.

Reagan lied. Not in a deposition, but to the American people while
sitting in the Oval Office.

Lying under oath is no big deal, but lying to "the people" from the
oval office is unpardonable? OK, remember this "I did not have sex
with that woman...Monica Lewinsky".


Most of the social injustices
committed over the last 100 years have been committed by DEMOCRATS,
not Republicans.


Three words: Richard Milhouse Nixon.

Huh? You claiming that Nixon alone committed "most of the social
injustices of the past 100 years"?


But hey, you just keep trying to spread the lie that Republicans are
mean spirited SOB's bent on poisoning the environment and starving
homeless children.


Considering what Reagan, Bush and Bush have done to environmental
laws, and to school programs, and to aid to families with dependant
children, I'll let the facts speak for themselves.

OK....
Fact, the quality of the air and water have been IMPROVING over the
last 20 years. I don't know one person who's died as a result of
unclean air or water. Maybe you do? Maybe you could post the death
certificate showing "pollution" as the cause of death.
Fact, the most recent federal education bill, the one in effect right
now, today. Was crafted by TED KENNEDY at the invitation of George W.
Bush. If, as you claim, there are insufficient funding of programs,
blame Teddy.
Fact, I haven't heard of any mother or child who has starved for lack
of federal aid, have you? In fact hunger, homelessness and poverty
have existed all the way back to FDR and beyond. For all the bleeding
heart, do-gooder Democrat presidents we've had, why pray tell are
there still poor folks left in America? What exactly did Clinton do to
help that Bush isn't? And why didn't Clinton solve the problem?
Your empty sloganeering are demonstrating the bankrupcy of Socialist
ideology. Keep talking "comrade".
.
User: "Douglas Berry"

Title: Re: Howard Dean hosts KKK fund raiser 21 Dec 2003 09:29:47 AM
Lo, many moons past, on Sat, 20 Dec 2003 13:50:55 -0500, a stranger
called by some B9 <blah@blah.blah> came forth and told this tale in
alt.atheism

On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 18:12:06 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:

I decided Clinton was a better
choice for President. Simple as that. And I'm a political moderate.

Still trying to hide your true stripes? Or do you think pretending to
be "uncommited" to one side or the other makes you appear to be
intellectually superior to someone who has enough self understanding
to choose a side?

So I should choose a side even if the candidate put forward by that
side is, in my opinion, wholly unsuited for the office? (Dukakis in
1988 comes to mind.)
I do not give my vote to a slate of candidates. I read up on them,
listen to what they have to say, and make my own decisions.
If this is to difficult a concept for you to handle, I'm sorry. But
since it seems you won't be happy unless i admit to something that
isn't true, let me stop this here:
I am a slightly left of center moderate. I have voted for candidates
from both major parties, and for a handful from minor parties. My
votes on state/local propositions are not guided by what any one party
or newspaper slate. Again, I'
m sorry if this concept scares or confuses you, but it is how I was
taught to examine choices.
If you won't be able to sleep until you know what "side" I am on; you
can rest easy knowing I am a firm, orange and black bleeding San
Francisco Giants fanatic.
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
.
User: "B9"

Title: Re: Howard Dean hosts KKK fund raiser 21 Dec 2003 12:38:33 PM
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 15:29:47 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:

So I should choose a side even if the candidate put forward by that
side is, in my opinion, wholly unsuited for the office?

No, even choosing not to vote is making a choice. I can respect that.

I am a slightly left of center moderate.

Well that isn't saying much. I never met a rabid liberal who didn't
describe himself as a "slightly left of center moderate". Still, it
was like pulling teeth to get you to admit that you are indeed
politically biased. GOOD! All intelligent people should know what they
are and where they stand. I resent the stealth partisan and even less
respect for the uncommitted (cowards waiting to see who is the likely
winner before they hop on board the train).

If you won't be able to sleep until you know what "side" I am on; you
can rest easy knowing I am a firm, orange and black bleeding San
Francisco Giants fanatic.

Geez! Now you've gone beyond the pale. Oh the humanity.
.




User: "Matthew Alexander"

Title: Re: Howard Dean hosts KKK fund raiser 19 Dec 2003 10:20:35 AM
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 09:07:58 -0500, B9 <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 03:24:06 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:

I voted for his father in 1988, but
not in 1992, because he lied about his tax pledge. Dubya has lied
constantly since coming into office.


BWAHAHAHA...*****!

Well, that concludes the civilized, adult portion of this
conversation... We now return you to your regularly scheduled zealotry
and preconceived dogmatism. Thank you for tuning in.
.



User: "Matthew Alexander"

Title: Re: Howard Dean hosts KKK fund raiser 18 Dec 2003 05:51:03 PM
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 17:10:59 -0500, B9 <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

I like the way we are
going. More freedom, for more people, and the free exchange of new
ideas.

That is the ideal I am fighting for.


Great! Me too. So if Lieberman don't win the primary, I expect you'll
vote Republican.

Why, do you think that McCain is going to be the nominee?
Because all those things Douglas is talking about sure aren't going to
survive another 4 years of Bush, Ashcroft, and the Project for a New
American Century...
.












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