| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Blairac" |
| Date: |
11 Nov 2004 01:13:54 PM |
| Object: |
Europe: What to do about Bush |
What to do about Bush
Rather than standing by, Europe can influence Washington's evangelical
myopia
Timothy Garton Ash
Thursday November 11, 2004
The Guardian
Houston, we have a problem. The spaceship Bush is up for another four
years, and its commanders think they have the mandate of heaven. God
has spoken through 51% of American voters. He has looked on President
Bush's war on terror and He has found it good. Senior officials assure
me that the administration wants to reach out to European allies in
its second term, but there's every indication that the basic thrust of
Bush's foreign policy will remain unchanged. Colin Powell, whom
Europeans regard as a reality-based moderate, has said Washington will
continue to pursue its foreign policy "aggressively". Even if this is
merely a tactical display of toughness and loyalty, in order to keep
his job, it shows you which way the wind is blowing.
They see the Earth differently from up there on spaceship Bush. This
is a White House team even more than usually sealed off from outside
criticism and realities, except when it comes to winning an American
election. As we saw in his first television debate with John Kerry,
President Bush is not used to being challenged on foreign policy. And
this commander-in-chief has missionary convictions. What chance has
the evidence of reality on the ground against the overwhelming power
of faith?
"I truly believe," said Laura Bush fervently, in a conversation with
CNN's Larry King, "that Iraq is becoming a democracy." And it was as
if, because she truly believes it, it must be true. We pedestrian
Earth-dwellers, still naively believing it's the facts on the ground
that count, ignore at our peril the power of what has wittily been
called "faith-based intelligence" to create its own alternative
reality - and then to project it successfully to the conservative half
of America through Fox News and rightwing talk radio. Some 42% of
those asked in one recent poll thought things were going well in Iraq.
So, Houston we have a problem. The problem is Houston. What should we
do about it? We Europeans, that is, in league with the 48% of American
voters who are even more dismayed than we are at the prospect of four
more years of Bush. Here are three options.
1) Treat America as Big Brother. Not the Orwellian one, but the
reality TV show. This is what most Europeans do at the moment. We
watch fascinated every night, as the inhabitants of the Big Brother
house slug it out. Will Rumsfeld survive, or Powell? What did Laura
say to Condi? We buy millions of copies of Michael Moore, in every
European language. In any bar in Europe, you can hear people trading
factoids about how more Americans believe in the virgin birth than in
evolution, and how ignorant they are about the rest of the world.
Anyone who spends time in America can contribute to this script. For
example: I was driving down Broadway the other day and the cab driver
had his radio tuned to a Christian gospel station called Family Radio.
The announcer was describing a book called The Light and the Glory:
Did God have a Plan for America? The answer is yes. God's plan - the
intelligence dossier on this one, in case you're wondering, is in the
gospel according to St Luke, chapter 2, verse 32 - is that the
Americans should be "a light to lighten the Gentiles". Or, as the
announcer put it, in a slightly sexed-up version of Luke's faith-based
intelligence, Americans have been sent "as a light to the world".
Wuddya believe it?
2) Build Europe as a counterweight. This is the Jacques Chirac
response to Bush's re-election. Robin Cook has urged something similar
in these pages. Faced with another four years of this kind of America,
argue the Euro-Gaullists, we must build a powerful EU as an
alternative pole of world politics. Everyone else in the world, and
especially rising China, should know that there is an alternative
version of the west, which speaks another language (French) and is
peace-loving, law-abiding, socially concerned, humane and seductive -
or, according to taste, weak, cynical, corrupt and hypocritical.
3) Engage to persuade. Tony Blair arrives in Washington today, aiming
to do just that. Continuing what I have called the Jeeves school of
diplomacy, he will be unswervingly loyal in public, while privately
urging moderation, multilateralism and other good things on the
gentleman in the White House. As Arafat leaves the scene, Blair will
encourage the Bush administration to seize the chance for a two-state
peace settlement between Israel and Palestine. With Britain taking
over the chairmanship of the G8, and then the presidency of the EU in
the second half of 2005, he will ask Washington to broaden its
transatlantic agenda, including not just Iraq and Iran but climate
change, the Doha round of trade talks, Africa, Darfur, relations with
China, and so on. If the president starts talking about bombing Iran's
nuclear facilities, Blair will murmur, like the inimitable Jeeves: "Is
that wise, sir?"
Which option is best? Treating America as Big Brother is easy, and
quite fun, but it won't get us anywhere at all. We'll just be jeering
from the sidelines. What we need is a wise combination of 2 and 3.
Chirac's Gaullist dream of a rival superpower is bound to fail because
half of Europe won't follow, leaving the Bush administration with
endless possibilities of "divide and rule". But another lesson of the
Iraq crisis is that the Jeeves school of British diplomacy doesn't
work either. Britain alone no longer has sufficient influence (if it
ever had) to redirect the course of the hyperpower spaceship. The EU,
however, is listened to in those areas where it has real coherence and
clout: trade and competition policy. It even prevented the merger of
two giant American companies, General Electric and Honeywell. If the
EU had anything like the same coherence in foreign or defence policy,
Washington would listen there, too.
So what we need is a European President Blairac. In my view, this
desirable cocktail is ideally mixed three parts Blair to one part
Chirac. Other Europeans will vary the proportions, according to taste.
We need the strong Europe that Paris wants, but a Europe that defines
itself emphatically and genuinely as a strategic partner of the United
States, not a rival to it. Fortunately, in the great cocktail-mixer
that is the EU of 25 member states, especially with its new
Euro-Atlanticist president of the European Commission, Jos=E9 Manuel
Barosso, and its Euro-Atlanticist foreign minister, Javier Solana, we
may have the postmodern possibility of getting a Blairac voice.
One of the few, small encouraging signs from these gloomy
post-election days is a little-noticed announcement from the White
House that President Bush telephoned the Dutch prime minister, who
holds the presidency of the EU, and "expressed his intention to work
with the EU, building on our shared values and interests, to promote
development and progress, defeat terrorists, and encourage freedom and
democracy around the world". You may say I'm clutching at straws, but
this feels like a time for clutching at straws.
"Failure is not an option" was the other great American line from the
movie Apollo 13. History-scarred Europeans know that failure is always
a possibility, even a probability. But our least bad chance of helping
to bring this spaceship safely back to earth is to put a Blairac on
the blower.
-=-
This message was posted via two or more anonymous remailing services.
.
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| User: "The Dixie Clits" |
|
| Title: Re: Europe: What to do about Bush |
11 Nov 2004 05:37:04 PM |
|
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"Blairac" <Anonymous-Remailer@See.Comment.Header> wrote in message
news:ITV4ZMZI38302.5929861111@anonymous...
What to do about Bush
Rather than standing by, Europe can influence Washington's evangelical
myopia
Timothy Garton Ash
Thursday November 11, 2004
The Guardian
Houston, we have a problem. The spaceship Bush is up for another four
years, and its commanders think they have the mandate of heaven. God
has spoken through 51% of American voters. He has looked on President
Bush's war on terror and He has found it good. Senior officials assure
me that the administration wants to reach out to European allies in
its second term, but there's every indication that the basic thrust of
Bush's foreign policy will remain unchanged. Colin Powell, whom
Europeans regard as a reality-based moderate, has said Washington will
continue to pursue its foreign policy "aggressively". Even if this is
merely a tactical display of toughness and loyalty, in order to keep
his job, it shows you which way the wind is blowing.
They see the Earth differently from up there on spaceship Bush. This
is a White House team even more than usually sealed off from outside
criticism and realities, except when it comes to winning an American
election. As we saw in his first television debate with John Kerry,
President Bush is not used to being challenged on foreign policy. And
this commander-in-chief has missionary convictions. What chance has
the evidence of reality on the ground against the overwhelming power
of faith?
"I truly believe," said Laura Bush fervently, in a conversation with
CNN's Larry King, "that Iraq is becoming a democracy." And it was as
if, because she truly believes it, it must be true. We pedestrian
Earth-dwellers, still naively believing it's the facts on the ground
that count, ignore at our peril the power of what has wittily been
called "faith-based intelligence" to create its own alternative
reality - and then to project it successfully to the conservative half
of America through Fox News and rightwing talk radio. Some 42% of
those asked in one recent poll thought things were going well in Iraq.
So, Houston we have a problem. The problem is Houston. What should we
do about it? We Europeans, that is, in league with the 48% of American
voters who are even more dismayed than we are at the prospect of four
more years of Bush. Here are three options.
1) Treat America as Big Brother. Not the Orwellian one, but the
reality TV show. This is what most Europeans do at the moment. We
watch fascinated every night, as the inhabitants of the Big Brother
house slug it out. Will Rumsfeld survive, or Powell? What did Laura
say to Condi? We buy millions of copies of Michael Moore, in every
European language. In any bar in Europe, you can hear people trading
factoids about how more Americans believe in the virgin birth than in
evolution, and how ignorant they are about the rest of the world.
Anyone who spends time in America can contribute to this script. For
example: I was driving down Broadway the other day and the cab driver
had his radio tuned to a Christian gospel station called Family Radio.
The announcer was describing a book called The Light and the Glory:
Did God have a Plan for America? The answer is yes. God's plan - the
intelligence dossier on this one, in case you're wondering, is in the
gospel according to St Luke, chapter 2, verse 32 - is that the
Americans should be "a light to lighten the Gentiles". Or, as the
announcer put it, in a slightly sexed-up version of Luke's faith-based
intelligence, Americans have been sent "as a light to the world".
Wuddya believe it?
2) Build Europe as a counterweight. This is the Jacques Chirac
response to Bush's re-election. Robin Cook has urged something similar
in these pages. Faced with another four years of this kind of America,
argue the Euro-Gaullists, we must build a powerful EU as an
alternative pole of world politics. Everyone else in the world, and
especially rising China, should know that there is an alternative
version of the west, which speaks another language (French) and is
peace-loving, law-abiding, socially concerned, humane and seductive -
or, according to taste, weak, cynical, corrupt and hypocritical.
3) Engage to persuade. Tony Blair arrives in Washington today, aiming
to do just that. Continuing what I have called the Jeeves school of
diplomacy, he will be unswervingly loyal in public, while privately
urging moderation, multilateralism and other good things on the
gentleman in the White House. As Arafat leaves the scene, Blair will
encourage the Bush administration to seize the chance for a two-state
peace settlement between Israel and Palestine. With Britain taking
over the chairmanship of the G8, and then the presidency of the EU in
the second half of 2005, he will ask Washington to broaden its
transatlantic agenda, including not just Iraq and Iran but climate
change, the Doha round of trade talks, Africa, Darfur, relations with
China, and so on. If the president starts talking about bombing Iran's
nuclear facilities, Blair will murmur, like the inimitable Jeeves: "Is
that wise, sir?"
Which option is best? Treating America as Big Brother is easy, and
quite fun, but it won't get us anywhere at all. We'll just be jeering
from the sidelines. What we need is a wise combination of 2 and 3.
Chirac's Gaullist dream of a rival superpower is bound to fail because
half of Europe won't follow, leaving the Bush administration with
endless possibilities of "divide and rule". But another lesson of the
Iraq crisis is that the Jeeves school of British diplomacy doesn't
work either. Britain alone no longer has sufficient influence (if it
ever had) to redirect the course of the hyperpower spaceship. The EU,
however, is listened to in those areas where it has real coherence and
clout: trade and competition policy. It even prevented the merger of
two giant American companies, General Electric and Honeywell. If the
EU had anything like the same coherence in foreign or defence policy,
Washington would listen there, too.
So what we need is a European President Blairac. In my view, this
desirable cocktail is ideally mixed three parts Blair to one part
Chirac. Other Europeans will vary the proportions, according to taste.
We need the strong Europe that Paris wants, but a Europe that defines
itself emphatically and genuinely as a strategic partner of the United
States, not a rival to it. Fortunately, in the great cocktail-mixer
that is the EU of 25 member states, especially with its new
Euro-Atlanticist president of the European Commission, Jos=E9 Manuel
Barosso, and its Euro-Atlanticist foreign minister, Javier Solana, we
may have the postmodern possibility of getting a Blairac voice.
One of the few, small encouraging signs from these gloomy
post-election days is a little-noticed announcement from the White
House that President Bush telephoned the Dutch prime minister, who
holds the presidency of the EU, and "expressed his intention to work
with the EU, building on our shared values and interests, to promote
development and progress, defeat terrorists, and encourage freedom and
democracy around the world". You may say I'm clutching at straws, but
this feels like a time for clutching at straws.
"Failure is not an option" was the other great American line from the
movie Apollo 13. History-scarred Europeans know that failure is always
a possibility, even a probability. But our least bad chance of helping
to bring this spaceship safely back to earth is to put a Blairac on
the blower.
======================================
May France or Germany can do what the US does to Cuba and start beaming tv
and radio propaganda into the US urging citizens to overthrow the
government.
.
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| User: "Mike Engelhardt" |
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| Title: Re: Europe: What to do about Bush |
11 Nov 2004 05:40:53 PM |
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May France or Germany can do what the US does to Cuba and start
beaming tv and radio propaganda into the US urging citizens to
overthrow the government.
That did any good there?
--Mike
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| User: "The Dixie Clits" |
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| Title: Re: Europe: What to do about Bush |
15 Nov 2004 04:00:35 PM |
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"Mike Engelhardt" <nospam@spam.org> wrote in message
news:9MSkd.40849$QJ3.11042@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
May France or Germany can do what the US does to Cuba and start
beaming tv and radio propaganda into the US urging citizens to
overthrow the government.
That did any good there?
--Mike
Yep.....it got the cubans leaving in inner tubes by the thousands!
.
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| User: "Richard Smol" |
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| Title: Re: Europe: What to do about Bush |
15 Nov 2004 06:57:28 AM |
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(Blairac) wrote in message news:<ITV4ZMZI38302.5929861111@anonymous>...
What to do about Bush
Simple... withdraw at least 50% of all investments. The USA is in deep
financial troubles already.
RS
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| User: "jamesw" |
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| Title: Re: Europe: What to do about Bush |
15 Nov 2004 04:06:05 PM |
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(Richard Smol) wrote in message news:<2767b33a.0411150457.6c32cefe@posting.google.com>...
Anonymous-Remailer@See.Comment.Header (Blairac) wrote in message news:<ITV4ZMZI38302.5929861111@anonymous>...
What to do about Bush
Simple... withdraw at least 50% of all investments. The USA is in deep
financial troubles already.
RS
I see that international finance is not your strongest suit.
Jim
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Europe: What to do about Bush |
16 Nov 2004 05:57:32 AM |
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On 15 Nov 2004 04:57:28 -0800, (Richard Smol) wrote:
Anonymous-Remailer@See.Comment.Header (Blairac) wrote in message news:<ITV4ZMZI38302.5929861111@anonymous>...
What to do about Bush
Simple... withdraw at least 50% of all investments. The USA is in deep
financial troubles already.
And as the US is the richest nation in the world, what happens to European investments
when the US pulls out of them?
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
.
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| User: "OrionCA" |
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| Title: Re: Europe: What to do about Bush |
22 Nov 2004 08:25:11 AM |
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On 15 Nov 2004 04:57:28 -0800, (Richard Smol) wrote:
Xref: alt.politics.bush:1008425 talk.politics.guns:241092 alt.atheism:444623 rec.travel.air:42661
"rec.travel.air"? Crossposting trolls are weird.
--
Some factoids:
2000 2004 % Increase
Bush 50,456,169 59,459,765 17.8%
Democrat 50,996,116 55,949,407 9.7%
Population 281,421,906 294,719,604 4.7%
Much of the Democrat gain is explained by simple
population growth. Bush's gain isn't.
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| User: "devil" |
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| Title: Re: Europe: What to do about Bush |
22 Nov 2004 09:28:11 AM |
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On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 06:25:11 -0800, OrionCA wrote:
On 15 Nov 2004 04:57:28 -0800, (Richard Smol) wrote:
Xref: alt.politics.bush:1008425 talk.politics.guns:241092 alt.atheism:444623 rec.travel.air:42661
"rec.travel.air"? Crossposting trolls are weird.
--
Some factoids:
2000 2004 % Increase
Bush 50,456,169 59,459,765 17.8%
Democrat 50,996,116 55,949,407 9.7%
Population 281,421,906 294,719,604 4.7%
Much of the Democrat gain is explained by simple
population growth. Bush's gain isn't.
The Ukraine scenario?
.
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| User: "Paul Middlestat" |
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| Title: Re: Europe: What to do about Bush |
13 Nov 2004 12:17:31 PM |
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What to do about Bush
Rather than standing by, Europe can influence Washington's
evangelical myopia
Rather than have this ultra-liberal newspaper spout it's distress over the
re-election of W, they need to consider why their beloved political left has
been unsuccessful in the past three elections, 2000, 2002, and 2004, in the
United States. Particulalry since much of the European press seems to
believe that the election of any candidate of the political left is suppose
to be something of a guarantee.
And address the question of why voters in the US have refused to follow
their demands.
.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Europe: What to do about Bush |
11 Nov 2004 05:06:54 PM |
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Blairac wrote:
What to do about Bush
Rather than standing by, Europe can influence Washington's evangelical
myopia
Timothy Garton Ash
Thursday November 11, 2004
The Guardian
Houston, we have a problem. The spaceship Bush is up for another four
years, and its commanders think they have the mandate of heaven. God
has spoken through 51% of American voters. He has looked on President
Bush's war on terror and He has found it good. Senior officials assure
me that the administration wants to reach out to European allies in
its second term, but there's every indication that the basic thrust of
Bush's foreign policy will remain unchanged. Colin Powell, whom
Europeans regard as a reality-based moderate,
What ! The guy who helped cover-up the Mai li massacre.......who also
burnt villagers hut with his zippo lighter, a 'reality
based-moderate'........no fucking way !!!!
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
Skype callto://hellward
NFS Porsche Unleashed, Hot Pursuit 2, Underground.
Yeowww
.
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| User: "America is #1" |
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| Title: Re: Europe: What to do about Bush |
11 Nov 2004 10:30:19 PM |
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In article <ITV4ZMZI38302.5929861111@anonymous>,
(Blairac) wrote:
One of the few, small encouraging signs from these gloomy
post-election days is a little-noticed announcement from the White
House that President Bush telephoned the Dutch prime minister, who
holds the presidency of the EU, and "expressed his intention to work
with the EU, building on our shared values and interests, to promote
development and progress, defeat terrorists, and encourage freedom and
democracy around the world". You may say I'm clutching at straws, but
this feels like a time for clutching at straws.
It means we want to help the Dutch kill their Arabs.
As for the rest, what Eurowhine.
.
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| User: "Jos Flachs" |
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| Title: Re: Europe: What to do about Bush |
12 Nov 2004 06:20:34 AM |
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On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:30:19 -0500, America is #1 <nobody@nospam.com>
wrote:
In article <ITV4ZMZI38302.5929861111@anonymous>,
Anonymous-Remailer@See.Comment.Header (Blairac) wrote:
One of the few, small encouraging signs from these gloomy
post-election days is a little-noticed announcement from the White
House that President Bush telephoned the Dutch prime minister, who
holds the presidency of the EU, and "expressed his intention to work
with the EU, building on our shared values and interests, to promote
development and progress, defeat terrorists, and encourage freedom and
democracy around the world". You may say I'm clutching at straws, but
this feels like a time for clutching at straws.
It means we want to help the Dutch kill their Arabs.
Well... it certainly will boost the image of the USA in Holland right
now!
As for the Dutch PM support: this guy has a hair style most boys over
the age of 11 would dread. His nickname is Harry Potter. And he sure
looks like it.
He's a bit like Bush: able to destroy a rather good economy. Before he
took over the Dutch economy was amongst the top 3 in Europe. Now they
rank about 12th place and going down.
I think the two have a lot in common.
.
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| User: "Roedy Green" |
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| Title: Re: Europe: What to do about Bush |
11 Nov 2004 03:57:22 PM |
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On 11 Nov 2004 19:13:54 -0000,
(Blairac) wrote or quoted :
Which option is best?
America has to be taken out. She is too crazy to be left with
superpower status. The safest and most humane way to do that is
financially. Withdraw investment from the USA. Switch to the Euro for
Petrodollars. Dump US currency. Dump US treasury bonds. Avoid buying
American goods.
see http://mindprod.com/election.html for how Bush stole the 2004
election and ended the great American experiment in democracy.
--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
See http://mindprod.com/iraq.html photos of Bush's war crimes
.
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| User: "Yardpilot" |
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| Title: Re: Europe: What to do about Bush |
12 Nov 2004 12:25:04 AM |
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"Roedy Green" <look-on@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:ftn7p0959g0ljol5pmoc81g59mevmemf4o@4ax.com...
On 11 Nov 2004 19:13:54 -0000,
(Blairac) wrote or quoted :
Which option is best?
America has to be taken out.
Cool. You buy, we'll lead.
.
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| User: "You Know Who" |
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| Title: Re: Europe: What to do about Bush |
11 Nov 2004 04:22:43 PM |
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On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:57:22 GMT, Roedy Green
<look-on@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote:
On 11 Nov 2004 19:13:54 -0000,
(Blairac) wrote or quoted :
Which option is best?
America has to be taken out.
[yawn] Which one of you is gonna bell *that* cat?
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Europe: What to do about Bush |
12 Nov 2004 03:57:20 PM |
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On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:57:22 GMT, Roedy Green <look-on@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote:
America has to be taken out. She is too crazy to be left with
superpower status. The safest and most humane way to do that is
financially. Withdraw investment from the USA. Switch to the Euro for
Petrodollars. Dump US currency. Dump US treasury bonds. Avoid buying
American goods.
We'll just avoid buying froggie goods.
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Europe: What to do about Bush |
12 Nov 2004 11:52:52 PM |
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duke wrote:
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:57:22 GMT, Roedy Green <look-on@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote:
America has to be taken out. She is too crazy to be left with
superpower status. The safest and most humane way to do that is
financially. Withdraw investment from the USA. Switch to the Euro for
Petrodollars. Dump US currency. Dump US treasury bonds. Avoid buying
American goods.
We'll just avoid buying froggie goods.
Ahh such bigotry.
If it wasn't for the French...you'd still be worshiping our dear Queen
idiot.
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
Skype callto://hellward
NFS Porsche Unleashed, Hot Pursuit 2, Underground.
Yeowww
.
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| User: "George Graves" |
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| Title: Re: Europe: What to do about Bush |
13 Nov 2004 12:21:58 AM |
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In article <V9-dnf4b_ZHyPAjcRVnyjA@pipex.net>,
Jez <iced_spear@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
duke wrote:
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:57:22 GMT, Roedy Green
<look-on@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote:
America has to be taken out. She is too crazy to be left with
superpower status. The safest and most humane way to do that is
financially. Withdraw investment from the USA. Switch to the Euro for
Petrodollars. Dump US currency. Dump US treasury bonds. Avoid buying
American goods.
We'll just avoid buying froggie goods.
Ahh such bigotry.
If it wasn't for the French...you'd still be worshiping our dear Queen
idiot.
Yeah, don't make fun of the French. After all, they're always there when
they need us. Seriously, if you Brits are going to bring up our debt to
the French for "helping" us in our 18th century revolution, then you
can't complain when when when we call all of YOU Euros ingrates for the
help we gave you to fight-off Hitler and to rebuild your countries after
the war. I.E., you can't have it both ways.
--
George Graves
------------------
Knowledge is good.
.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Europe: What to do about Bush |
13 Nov 2004 12:22:42 AM |
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George Graves wrote:
In article <V9-dnf4b_ZHyPAjcRVnyjA@pipex.net>,
Jez <iced_spear@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
duke wrote:
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:57:22 GMT, Roedy Green
<look-on@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote:
America has to be taken out. She is too crazy to be left with
superpower status. The safest and most humane way to do that is
financially. Withdraw investment from the USA. Switch to the Euro for
Petrodollars. Dump US currency. Dump US treasury bonds. Avoid buying
American goods.
We'll just avoid buying froggie goods.
Ahh such bigotry.
If it wasn't for the French...you'd still be worshiping our dear Queen
idiot.
Yeah, don't make fun of the French. After all, they're always there when
they need us. Seriously, if you Brits are going to bring up our debt to
the French for "helping" us in our 18th century revolution, then you
can't complain when when when we call all of YOU Euros ingrates for the
help we gave you to fight-off Hitler and to rebuild your countries after
the war. I.E., you can't have it both ways.
Sorry dude, but your current President help finance Hitler....along with
Henry Ford and many others..
so don't talk about 'saving our asses'
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
Skype callto://hellward
NFS Porsche Unleashed, Hot Pursuit 2, Underground.
Yeowww
.
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| User: "Bert Hyman" |
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| Title: Re: Europe: What to do about Bush |
13 Nov 2004 04:08:10 PM |
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In news:gNWdnRD2kcfwNQjcRVnysg@pipex.net Jez
<iced_spear@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
Sorry dude, but your current President help finance Hitler
Our current President was born in 1946.
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@visi.com
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Europe: What to do about Bush |
13 Nov 2004 06:49:22 PM |
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Bert Hyman wrote:
In news:gNWdnRD2kcfwNQjcRVnysg@pipex.net Jez
<iced_spear@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
Sorry dude, but your current President help finance Hitler
Our current President was born in 1946.
If you noticed...I spotted my typo...and posted a correction.
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
Skype callto://hellward
NFS Porsche Unleashed, Hot Pursuit 2, Underground.
Yeowww
.
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| User: "Bert Hyman" |
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| Title: Re: Europe: What to do about Bush |
13 Nov 2004 06:50:33 PM |
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In news:Y7-dnS_Or7kMNgvcRVnyvg@pipex.net Jez
<iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMpipex.com> wrote:
Bert Hyman wrote:
In news:gNWdnRD2kcfwNQjcRVnysg@pipex.net Jez
<iced_spear@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
Sorry dude, but your current President help finance Hitler
Our current President was born in 1946.
If you noticed...I spotted my typo...and posted a correction.
You claim it was just a typo?
Now, ->that's funny!
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@visi.com
.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Europe: What to do about Bush |
14 Nov 2004 01:45:08 PM |
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Bert Hyman wrote:
In news:Y7-dnS_Or7kMNgvcRVnyvg@pipex.net Jez
<iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMpipex.com> wrote:
Bert Hyman wrote:
In news:gNWdnRD2kcfwNQjcRVnysg@pipex.net Jez
<iced_spear@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
Sorry dude, but your current President help finance Hitler
Our current President was born in 1946.
If you noticed...I spotted my typo...and posted a correction.
You claim it was just a typo?
Now, ->that's funny!
It was...I missed out the word 'Grandfather'.
But you can believe what you fucking well like.
The facts stand for themselves. Prescott Bush was a major financier of
Hitlers Nazi party.
Go do a google.
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
Skype callto://hellward
NFS Porsche Unleashed, Hot Pursuit 2, Underground.
Yeowww
.
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| User: "Asmodeus" |
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| Title: Re: Europe: What to do about Bush |
13 Nov 2004 10:33:41 AM |
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Jez <iced_spear@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote in
news:gNWdnRD2kcfwNQjcRVnysg@pipex.net:
Sorry dude, but your current President help finance Hitler
Does the concept of timeline mean anything to you?
--
/"\ ||
\ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN || The Right War
X AGAINST HTML MAIL || The Right Time
/ \ AND POSTINGS || The Right President
.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Europe: What to do about Bush |
13 Nov 2004 02:09:56 PM |
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Asmodeus wrote:
Jez <iced_spear@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote in
news:gNWdnRD2kcfwNQjcRVnysg@pipex.net:
Sorry dude, but your current President help finance Hitler
Does the concept of timeline mean anything to you?
I posted a correction as soon as I noticed my typo.
So ***** u.
--
Jez
Who needs a damned sig file anyway !
.
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| User: "Asmodeus" |
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| Title: Re: Europe: What to do about Bush |
13 Nov 2004 03:26:28 PM |
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Jez <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMpipex.com> wrote in news:N-
6dnWY_T5OJ9wvcRVnyrg@pipex.net:
So ***** u
No thanks.
--
/"\ ||
\ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN || The Right War
X AGAINST HTML MAIL || The Right Time
/ \ AND POSTINGS || The Right President
.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Europe: What to do about Bush |
13 Nov 2004 12:47:45 AM |
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Jez wrote:
George Graves wrote:
In article <V9-dnf4b_ZHyPAjcRVnyjA@pipex.net>,
Jez <iced_spear@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
duke wrote:
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:57:22 GMT, Roedy Green
<look-on@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote:
America has to be taken out. She is too crazy to be left with
superpower status. The safest and most humane way to do that is
financially. Withdraw investment from the USA. Switch to the Euro for
Petrodollars. Dump US currency. Dump US treasury bonds. Avoid buying
American goods.
We'll just avoid buying froggie goods.
Ahh such bigotry.
If it wasn't for the French...you'd still be worshiping our dear
Queen idiot.
Yeah, don't make fun of the French. After all, they're always there
when they need us. Seriously, if you Brits are going to bring up our
debt to the French for "helping" us in our 18th century revolution,
then you can't complain when when when we call all of YOU Euros
ingrates for the help we gave you to fight-off Hitler and to rebuild
your countries after the war. I.E., you can't have it both ways.
Oops !!!
Missed a few words there...
Should read 'your current Presidents Grandfather'.....
Sorry dude, but your current President help finance Hitler....along with
Henry Ford and many others..
so don't talk about 'saving our asses'
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
Skype callto://hellward
NFS Porsche Unleashed, Hot Pursuit 2, Underground.
Yeowww
.
|
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Europe: What to do about Bush |
13 Nov 2004 02:03:32 AM |
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On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 06:22:42 +0000, Jez
<iced_spear@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
George Graves wrote:
In article <V9-dnf4b_ZHyPAjcRVnyjA@pipex.net>,
Jez <iced_spear@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
duke wrote:
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:57:22 GMT, Roedy Green
<look-on@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote:
America has to be taken out. She is too crazy to be left with
superpower status. The safest and most humane way to do that is
financially. Withdraw investment from the USA. Switch to the Euro for
Petrodollars. Dump US currency. Dump US treasury bonds. Avoid buying
American goods.
We'll just avoid buying froggie goods.
Ahh such bigotry.
If it wasn't for the French...you'd still be worshiping our dear Queen
idiot.
Yeah, don't make fun of the French. After all, they're always there when
they need us. Seriously, if you Brits are going to bring up our debt to
the French for "helping" us in our 18th century revolution, then you
can't complain when when when we call all of YOU Euros ingrates for the
help we gave you to fight-off Hitler and to rebuild your countries after
the war. I.E., you can't have it both ways.
Sorry dude, but your current President help finance Hitler....along with
Henry Ford and many others..
so don't talk about 'saving our asses'
Actually, he was born in 1946 so he couldn't have.
It was Prescott Bush - his grandfather.
.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Europe: What to do about Bush |
13 Nov 2004 02:07:36 PM |
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Christopher A. Lee wrote:
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 06:22:42 +0000, Jez
<iced_spear@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
George Graves wrote:
In article <V9-dnf4b_ZHyPAjcRVnyjA@pipex.net>,
Jez <iced_spear@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
duke wrote:
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:57:22 GMT, Roedy Green
<look-on@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote:
America has to be taken out. She is too crazy to be left with
superpower status. The safest and most humane way to do that is
financially. Withdraw investment from the USA. Switch to the Euro for
Petrodollars. Dump US currency. Dump US treasury bonds. Avoid buying
American goods.
We'll just avoid buying froggie goods.
Ahh such bigotry.
If it wasn't for the French...you'd still be worshiping our dear Queen
idiot.
Yeah, don't make fun of the French. After all, they're always there when
they need us. Seriously, if you Brits are going to bring up our debt to
the French for "helping" us in our 18th century revolution, then you
can't complain when when when we call all of YOU Euros ingrates for the
help we gave you to fight-off Hitler and to rebuild your countries after
the war. I.E., you can't have it both ways.
Sorry dude, but your current President help finance Hitler....along with
Henry Ford and many others..
so don't talk about 'saving our asses'
Actually, he was born in 1946 so he couldn't have.
It was Prescott Bush - his grandfather.
I posted a correction almost instantly....
Learn to use a fucking newsreader.
--
Jez
Some buggers nicked my sig file !
.
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| User: "AH# 49 writes:" |
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| Title: Re: Europe: What to do about Bush |
13 Nov 2004 02:13:43 PM |
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Jez wrote:
Sorry dude, but your current President help finance Hitler....along with
Henry Ford and many others..
so don't talk about 'saving our asses'
Actually, he was born in 1946 so he couldn't have.
I posted a correction almost instantly....
Learn to use a fucking newsreader.
If you stopped lying, one wouldn't have to wait for the propagation
of usenet to thread up.
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