| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"johac" |
| Date: |
07 Oct 2006 08:23:04 AM |
| Object: |
Evangelicals Fear the Loss of Their Teenagers |
Is there hope? I don't know if this is true or not, but it would be
great news for the future if it is.
---
October 6, 2006
Evangelicals Fear the Loss of Their Teenagers
By LAURIE GOODSTEIN
Correction Appended
Despite their packed megachurches, their political clout and their
increasing visibility on the national stage, evangelical Christian
leaders are warning one another that their teenagers are abandoning the
faith in droves.
At an unusual series of leadership meetings in 44 cities this fall, more
than 6,000 pastors are hearing dire forecasts from some of the biggest
names in the conservative evangelical movement.
Their alarm has been stoked by a highly suspect claim that if current
trends continue, only 4 percent of teenagers will be Bible-believing
Christians as adults. That would be a sharp decline compared with 35
percent of the current generation of baby boomers, and before that, 65
percent of the World War II generation.
While some critics say the statistics are greatly exaggerated (one
evangelical magazine for youth ministers dubbed it the 4 percent panic
attack), there is widespread consensus among evangelical leaders that
they risk losing their teenagers.
Im looking at the data, said Ron Luce, who organized the meetings and
founded Teen Mania, a 20-year-old youth ministry, and weve become
post-Christian America, like post-Christian Europe. Weve been working as
hard as we know how to work everyone in youth ministry is working hard
but were losing.
The board of the National Association of Evangelicals, an umbrella group
representing 60 denominations and dozens of ministries, passed a
resolution this year deploring the epidemic of young people leaving the
evangelical church.
Among the leaders speaking at the meetings are Ted Haggard, president of
the evangelical association; the Rev. Jerry Falwell; and nationally
known preachers like Jack Hayford and Tommy Barnett.
Genuine alarm can be heard from Christian teenagers and youth pastors,
who say they cannot compete against a pervasive culture of cynicism
about religion, and the casual hooking up approach to sex so pervasive
on MTV, on Web sites for teenagers and in hip-hop, rap and rock music.
Divorced parents and dysfunctional families also lead some teenagers to
avoid church entirely or to drift away.
Over and over in interviews, evangelical teenagers said they felt like a
tiny, beleaguered minority in their schools and neighborhoods. They said
they often felt alone in their struggles to live by their Biblical
values by avoiding casual sex, risqu music and videos, Internet
pornography, alcohol and drugs.
When Eric Soto, 18, transferred from a small charter school to a large
public high school in Chicago, he said he was disappointed to find that
an extracurricular Bible study attracted only five to eight students.
When we brought food, we thought we could get a better turnout, he said.
They got 12.
Chelsea Dunford, a 17-year old from Canton, Conn., said, At school I
dont have a lot of friends who are Christians.
Ms. Dunford spoke late last month as she and her small church youth
group were about to join more than 3,400 teenagers in a sports arena at
the University of Massachusetts in Amherst for a Christian youth
extravaganza and rock concert called Acquire the Fire.
A lot of my friends are self-proclaimed agnostics or atheists, said Ms.
Dunford, who wears a bracelet with a heart-shaped charm engraved with
tlw, for true love waits, to remind herself of her pledge not to have
premarital sex.
She said her friends were more prone to use profanity and party than she
was, and added: Its scary sometimes. You get made fun of.
To break the isolation and bolster the teenagers commitment to a
conservative lifestyle, Mr. Luce has been organizing these stadium
extravaganzas for 15 years. The event in Amherst was the first of 40
that Teen Mania is putting on between now and May, on a breakneck
schedule that resembles a road trip for a major touring band. The
roadies are 700 teenagers who have interned for a year at Teen Manias
Honor Academy in Garden Valley, Tex.
More than two million teenagers have attended in the last 15 years, said
Mr. Luce, a 45-year-old, mop-headed father of three with a masters
degree from the Graduate School of Business Administration at Harvard
and the star power of an aging rock guitarist.
Thats more than Paul McCartney has pulled in, Mr. Luce asserted, before
bounding onstage for the opening pyrotechnics and a prayer.
For the next two days, the teenagers in the arena pogoed to Christian
bands, pledged to lead their friends to Christ and sang an anthem with
the chorus, We wont be silent. Hundreds streamed down the aisles for the
altar call and knelt in front of the stage, some weeping openly as they
prayed to give their lives to God.
The next morning, Mr. Luce led the crowd in an exercise in which they
wrote on scraps of paper all the negative cultural influences, brand
names, products and television shows that they planned to excise from
their lives. Again they streamed down the aisles, this time to throw
away the cultural garbage.
Trash cans filled with folded pieces of paper on which the teenagers had
scribbled things like Ryan Seacrest, Louis Vuitton, Gilmore Girls, Days
of Our Lives, Iron Maiden, Harry Potter, need for a boyfriend and my
perfect teeth obsession. One had written in tiny letters: fornication.
Some teenagers threw away cigarette lighters, brand-name sweatshirts,
Mardi Gras beads and CDs one titled Im a Hustla.
Lord Jesus, Mr. Luce prayed into the microphone as the teenagers dropped
their notes into the trash, I strip off the identity of the world, and
this morning I clothe myself with Christ, with his lifestyle. Thats what
I want to be known for.
Evangelical adults, like believers of every faith, fret about losing the
next generation, said the Rev. David W. Key, director of Baptist Studies
at the Candler School of Theology of Emory University, in Atlanta.
The uniqueness of the evangelical situation is the fact that during the
80s and 90s you had the Reagan revolution that was growing the
evangelical churches, Mr. Key said.
Today, he said, the culture trivializes religion and normalizes
secularism and liberal sexual mores.
The phenomenon may not be that young evangelicals are abandoning their
faith, but that they are abandoning the institutional church, said
Lauren Sandler, author of Righteous: Dispatches from the Evangelical
Youth Movement (Viking, 2006). Ms. Sandler, who calls herself a secular
liberal, said she found the movement frighteningly robust.
This generation is not about church, said Ms. Sandler, an editor at
Salon.com. They always say, We take our faith outside the four walls.
For a lot of young evangelicals, church is a rock festival, or a skate
park or hanging out in someones basement.
Contradicting the sense of isolation expressed by some evangelical
teenagers, Ms. Sandler said, I met plenty of kids who told me over and
over that if youre not Christian in your high school, youre not cool
kids with Mohawks, with indie rock bands who feel peer pressure to be
Christian.
The reality is, when it comes to organizing youth, evangelical
Christians are the envy of Roman Catholics, mainline Protestants and
Jews, said Christian Smith, a professor of sociology at the University
of Notre Dame, who specializes in the study of American evangelicals and
surveyed teens for his book Soul Searching: the Religious and Spiritual
lives of American Teenagers (Oxford, 2005).
Mr. Smith said he was skeptical about the 4 percent statistic. He said
the figure was from a footnote in a book and was inconsistent with
research he had conducted and reviewed, which has found that evangelical
teenagers are more likely to remain involved with their faith than are
mainline Protestants, Catholics, Jews and teenagers of almost every
other religion.
A lot of the goals Im very supportive of, Mr. Smith said of the new
evangelical youth campaign, but it just kills me that its framed in such
apocalyptic terms that couldnt possibly hold up under half a second of
scrutiny. Its just self-defeating.
The 4 percent is cited in the book The Bridger Generation by Thom S.
Rainer, a Southern Baptist and a former professor of ministry. Mr.
Rainer said in an interview that it came from a poll he had
commissioned, and that while he thought the methodology was reliable,
the poll was 10 years old.
I would have to, with integrity, say there has been no significant
follow-up to see if the numbers are still valid, Mr. Rainer said.
Mr. Luce seems weary of criticism that his message is overly alarmist.
He said that a current poll by the well-known evangelical pollster
George Barna found that 5 percent of teenagers were Bible-believing
Christians. Some criticize Mr. Barnas methodology, however, for defining
Bible-believing so narrowly that it excludes most people who consider
themselves Christians.
Mr. Luce responded: If the 4 percent is true, or even the 5 percent, its
an indictment of youth ministry. So certainly theyre going to want
different data.
Outside the arena in Amherst, the teenagers at Mr. Luces Acquire the
Fire extravaganza mobbed the tables hawking T-shirts and CDs stamped:
Branded by God. Mr. Luces strategy is to replace MTVs wares with those
of an alternative Christian culture, so teenagers will link their
identity to Christ and not to the latest flesh-baring pop star.
Apparently, the strategy can show results. In Chicago, Eric Soto said he
returned from a stadium event in Detroit in the spring to find that
other teenagers in the hallways were also wearing Acquire the Fire
T-shirts.
You were there? Youre a Christian? he said the young people would say to
one another. The fire doesnt die once you leave the stadium. But its a
challenge to keep it burning.
Correction: Oct. 7, 2006
A front-page article yesterday about evangelical Christian teenagers
gave an incorrect academic credential for Ron Luce, the founder of Teen
Mania, a youth ministry that organizes Acquire the Fire stadium events.
He is a graduate of the Harvard University Graduate School of Business
Administration, where he received a certificate from the Owner President
Management program. He did not earn a masters degree from the school.
---
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/06/us/06evangelical.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1
&ei=5094&en=4bc2ab121e996b11&hp&ex=1160107200&partner=homepage
or:
http://tinyurl.com/pfdtd
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
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| User: "Doc Smartass" |
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| Title: Re: Evangelicals Fear the Loss of Their Teenagers |
07 Oct 2006 09:25:53 PM |
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johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote in news:jhachmann-
34DEAD.01230307102006@news.giganews.com:
Subject: Evangelicals Fear the Loss of Their Teenagers
The GOP can only corrupt so many at a time.
--
Doc Smartass
The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of
words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people
who must use the words. - Philip K. *****
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Evangelicals Fear the Loss of Their Teenagers |
08 Oct 2006 05:10:58 AM |
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In article <Xns9855A72826966askifyouwantit@216.77.188.18>,
Doc Smartass <gekido@astroskivviesboymail.com> wrote:
johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote in news:jhachmann-
34DEAD.01230307102006@news.giganews.com:
Subject: Evangelicals Fear the Loss of Their Teenagers
The GOP can only corrupt so many at a time.
The priests and preachers are complaining that there aren't enough left
for them.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
|
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| User: "Doc Smartass" |
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| Title: Re: Evangelicals Fear the Loss of Their Teenagers |
08 Oct 2006 04:07:31 PM |
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johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote in news:jhachmann-
051556.22105807102006@news.giganews.com:
In article <Xns9855A72826966askifyouwantit@216.77.188.18>,
Doc Smartass <gekido@astroskivviesboymail.com> wrote:
johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote in news:jhachmann-
34DEAD.01230307102006@news.giganews.com:
Subject: Evangelicals Fear the Loss of Their Teenagers
The GOP can only corrupt so many at a time.
The priests and preachers are complaining that there aren't enough left
for them.
Pope calls Chimp: "Yeah, see? You're muscling in on our turf, you dirty
rats!"
--
Doc Smartass
The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of
words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the
people who must use the words. - Philip K. *****
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Evangelicals Fear the Loss of Their Teenagers |
09 Oct 2006 04:05:16 AM |
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In article <Xns9856713034381askifyouwantit@216.77.188.18>,
Doc Smartass <gekido@astroskivviesboymail.com> wrote:
johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote in news:jhachmann-
051556.22105807102006@news.giganews.com:
In article <Xns9855A72826966askifyouwantit@216.77.188.18>,
Doc Smartass <gekido@astroskivviesboymail.com> wrote:
johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote in news:jhachmann-
34DEAD.01230307102006@news.giganews.com:
Subject: Evangelicals Fear the Loss of Their Teenagers
The GOP can only corrupt so many at a time.
The priests and preachers are complaining that there aren't enough left
for them.
Pope calls Chimp: "Yeah, see? You're muscling in on our turf, you dirty
rats!"
So is Shrub going to send Benny a dead sheep's head as a warning?
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
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| User: "Doc Smartass" |
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| Title: Re: Evangelicals Fear the Loss of Their Teenagers |
09 Oct 2006 06:20:30 PM |
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johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote in
news:jhachmann-BF0A3B.21051608102006@news.giganews.com:
In article <Xns9856713034381askifyouwantit@216.77.188.18>,
Doc Smartass <gekido@astroskivviesboymail.com> wrote:
johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote in news:jhachmann-
051556.22105807102006@news.giganews.com:
In article <Xns9855A72826966askifyouwantit@216.77.188.18>,
Doc Smartass <gekido@astroskivviesboymail.com> wrote:
johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote in news:jhachmann-
34DEAD.01230307102006@news.giganews.com:
Subject: Evangelicals Fear the Loss of Their Teenagers
The GOP can only corrupt so many at a time.
The priests and preachers are complaining that there aren't enough
left for them.
Pope calls Chimp: "Yeah, see? You're muscling in on our turf, you
dirty rats!"
So is Shrub going to send Benny a dead sheep's head as a warning?
Only if he can't find an intern.
--
Doc Smartass
The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of
words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the
people who must use the words. - Philip K. *****
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Evangelicals Fear the Loss of Their Teenagers |
10 Oct 2006 05:31:33 AM |
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In article <Xns985787BB2D0E4askifyouwantit@216.77.188.18>,
Doc Smartass <gekido@astroskivviesboymail.com> wrote:
johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote in
news:jhachmann-BF0A3B.21051608102006@news.giganews.com:
In article <Xns9856713034381askifyouwantit@216.77.188.18>,
Doc Smartass <gekido@astroskivviesboymail.com> wrote:
johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote in news:jhachmann-
051556.22105807102006@news.giganews.com:
In article <Xns9855A72826966askifyouwantit@216.77.188.18>,
Doc Smartass <gekido@astroskivviesboymail.com> wrote:
johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote in news:jhachmann-
34DEAD.01230307102006@news.giganews.com:
Subject: Evangelicals Fear the Loss of Their Teenagers
The GOP can only corrupt so many at a time.
The priests and preachers are complaining that there aren't enough
left for them.
Pope calls Chimp: "Yeah, see? You're muscling in on our turf, you
dirty rats!"
So is Shrub going to send Benny a dead sheep's head as a warning?
Only if he can't find an intern.
That would be better.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Evangelicals Fear the Loss of Their Teenagers |
07 Oct 2006 05:20:58 PM |
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johac wrote:
Is there hope? I don't know if this is true or not, but it would be
great news for the future if it is.
---
October 6, 2006
Evangelicals Fear the Loss of Their Teenagers
By LAURIE GOODSTEIN
<snip>
---
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/06/us/06evangelical.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1
&ei=5094&en=4bc2ab121e996b11&hp&ex=1160107200&partner=homepage
or:
http://tinyurl.com/pfdtd
I posted this a couple days ago and later got to thinking about a threaad
here some time ago.
It had to do with driving around town on a Sunday morning and checking out
the cars in the church parking lots. There were not many of them.
Also I have this from a local paper a while back.
Chico - Paradise area Butte County, CA
Group 1990 2000 % change
Evangelical Protestants 19,185 19,616 +2.2
Mainline Prodestants 7,222 6,745 -7.1
Catholic 15,382 19,483 +26.7
Orthodox 0 200 +200.0
Other 7,880 7,993 +2.0
Unclaimed not asked 147,520 - more than 72%
Source: American Religious Data Archive
http://www.thearda.com
My county Glenn shows similar results. Big increase in Catholics and 55.7%
unclaimed.
The mega churches seem to be an exception but I suspect most offer the
"lite" version of religion.
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Evangelicals Fear the Loss of Their Teenagers |
08 Oct 2006 05:20:29 AM |
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In article <_lRVg.20339$Ij.2486@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>,
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
johac wrote:
Is there hope? I don't know if this is true or not, but it would be
great news for the future if it is.
---
October 6, 2006
Evangelicals Fear the Loss of Their Teenagers
By LAURIE GOODSTEIN
<snip>
---
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/06/us/06evangelical.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1
&ei=5094&en=4bc2ab121e996b11&hp&ex=1160107200&partner=homepage
or:
http://tinyurl.com/pfdtd
I posted this a couple days ago and later got to thinking about a threaad
here some time ago.
It had to do with driving around town on a Sunday morning and checking out
the cars in the church parking lots. There were not many of them.
Also I have this from a local paper a while back.
Chico - Paradise area Butte County, CA
Group 1990 2000 % change
Evangelical Protestants 19,185 19,616 +2.2
Mainline Prodestants 7,222 6,745 -7.1
Catholic 15,382 19,483 +26.7
Orthodox 0 200 +200.0
Other 7,880 7,993 +2.0
Unclaimed not asked 147,520 - more than 72%
Source: American Religious Data Archive
http://www.thearda.com
My county Glenn shows similar results. Big increase in Catholics and 55.7%
unclaimed.
The mega churches seem to be an exception but I suspect most offer the
"lite" version of religion.
From what I've read, the mega churches seem to be about 10% religion and
90% about socializing, fund raising, and politicking which of course
they really aren't doing (nudge, nudge, wink, wink).
I wonder how much of the increase in RCC membership is due to
immigration from predominantly Catholic Mexico and Central America?
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Evangelicals Fear the Loss of Their Teenagers |
08 Oct 2006 06:47:33 AM |
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johac wrote:
In article <_lRVg.20339$Ij.2486@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>,
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
<snip>
I wonder how much of the increase in RCC membership is due to
immigration from predominantly Catholic Mexico and Central America?
This small town is over 70% Mexican and the RCC church has a fair following
but there is a small store front church that is drawing people and one of
the people who belong to another fundy church says they are gaining Mexican
membership. (That's polite, the Mexicans are taking over is what he actually
said.)
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Evangelicals Fear the Loss of Their Teenagers |
09 Oct 2006 04:01:28 AM |
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In article <9a1Wg.14190$7I1.18@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>,
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <_lRVg.20339$Ij.2486@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>,
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
<snip>
I wonder how much of the increase in RCC membership is due to
immigration from predominantly Catholic Mexico and Central America?
This small town is over 70% Mexican and the RCC church has a fair following
but there is a small store front church that is drawing people and one of
the people who belong to another fundy church says they are gaining Mexican
membership. (That's polite, the Mexicans are taking over is what he actually
said.)
I've also heard that the evangelicals are stating to make progress in
Central and South America. Apparently people there see the RCC as the
church of the oppressors, first the religion of the colonial Spaniards
and later as often in support of some of the repressive regimes in those
regions.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
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| User: "L. Raymond" |
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| Title: Re: Evangelicals Fear the Loss of Their Teenagers |
07 Oct 2006 05:45:13 PM |
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Mike Painter wrote:
I posted this a couple days ago and later got to thinking about a threaad
here some time ago.
It had to do with driving around town on a Sunday morning and checking out
the cars in the church parking lots. There were not many of them.
In my area it's just the opposite. There is a Baptist church and
another one whose denomination I haven't seen, each of which have to
hire off-duty cops to regulate traffic so all their sheep can get into
the parking lot.
--
L. Raymond
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