| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"J Young" |
| Date: |
18 Aug 2007 09:52:42 PM |
| Object: |
Evangelist Bill Graham Hospitalized |
I believe I can speak for everyone in wishing the Rev. Graham a full and
speedy recovery
http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=4105669&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.3.1
Evangelist Billy Graham was admitted to a hospital near his home early
Saturday for evaluation and treatment of an intestinal bleed, hospital
officials said.
Graham, 88, was resting comfortably Saturday afternoon, said Merrell
Gregory, a spokesman for Mission Health & Hospitals in Asheville.
Graham's doctors said his condition did not appear to be life-threatening,
said Graham's spokesman, Larry Ross. He estimated the ailing preacher could
be released from the hospital in a couple of days
--
J Young
younginsights@aol.com
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Evangelist Bill Graham Hospitalized |
21 Aug 2007 03:01:33 AM |
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On 21-Aug-2007, "Rick" <pl1_alpha_geek@juNOSPAM.com> wrote:
flaviaR@verizon.net wrote in message ...
On 19-Aug-2007, "Rick" <pl1_alpha_geek@juNOSPAM.com> wrote:
I think my one problem with Rev. Graham was his use of very
sacred Jewish prayers in his evangelical
ITYM "evangelistic."
You'll have to explain the difference - it is obviously too subtle for
me.
Evangelical refers to a theology or it's adherents.
So, IOW, I was correct.
His stuff is *all* evangelical.
Evangelism is an
activity of promoting faith. An evangelist is one whose primary function
is
evangelism.
Which information doesn't seem to cover the word "evangeliCAL", the word I
sued.
It's not subtle, but sometimes the words aren't used
correctly,
and it often shows that the person isn't familiar enough with the suject.
No, it means that the person isn't familiar with the nitpicking on the
subject.
And I was correct: "evangelical" means
# relating to or being a Christian church believing in personal conversion
and the inerrancy of the Bible especially the 4 Gospels; "evangelical
Christianity"; "an ultraconservative evangelical message"
# of or pertaining to or in keeping with the Christian gospel especially as
in the first 4 books of the New Testament
meetings - replacement
theology is as arrogant as it gets.
Please elaborate.
This is one of the better articles I have seen on the subject:
http://www.axt.org.uk/essays/Kessler.htm
Here's an excerpt, with the politest way of putting it:
"But does Christianity teach that it replaces Judaism? If we examine the
traditional writings of the Church there is only one answer - yes! For
example, the church fathers argued that because Jews had rejected Jesus
as
the messiah they were punished by the destruction of the Temple in 70 CE
and
by being driven out from their land. In 135 CE after the disastrous bar
Kochba revolt, they were banned from Jerusalem, which was turned into a
Roman city. Jews only survived through the centuries, according to this
teaching, because their lowly position witnessed to the truth of
Christianity."
I'm sorry, but Christianity has always taught that Jesus was the Messiah.
You're very sorry, because that wasn't the gist of the paragraph.
That's fulfillment, not replacement.
Fulfillment is also replacement - thanks for admitting it anyway.
And how is this relevant to Graham?
If you're not going to read, or at least remember, what I already wrote,
I'm not going to bother continuing with you.
I'd still like to know what it was that you thought were "very sacred
Jewish
prayers" that Graham used.
At this point, I wouldn't cross the street to spit on you,
much less further expose my religion to your arrogance.
Get stuffed.
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| User: "Rick" |
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| Title: Re: Evangelist Bill Graham Hospitalized |
21 Aug 2007 11:10:19 AM |
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wrote in message ...
On 21-Aug-2007, "Rick" <pl1_alpha_geek@juNOSPAM.com> wrote:
wrote in message ...
On 19-Aug-2007, "Rick" <pl1_alpha_geek@juNOSPAM.com> wrote:
I think my one problem with Rev. Graham was his use of very
sacred Jewish prayers in his evangelical
ITYM "evangelistic."
You'll have to explain the difference - it is obviously too subtle for
me.
Evangelical refers to a theology or it's adherents.
So, IOW, I was correct.
No. you were referring to Graham's "meetings."
His stuff is *all* evangelical.
You still aren't getting it.
Evangelism is an
activity of promoting faith.
This is the key part. Would you refer to Catholics as Evangelicals simply
because they do evangelism? From what I've seen here, you would, and with
deep conviction and great fervor.
An evangelist is one whose primary function
is
evangelism.
Which information doesn't seem to cover the word "evangeliCAL", the word I
sued.
It's not subtle, but sometimes the words aren't used
correctly,
and it often shows that the person isn't familiar enough with the suject.
No, it means that the person isn't familiar with the nitpicking on the
subject.
It's not nitpicking to use language properly. I suppose you're the kind of
person who uses words like "orientate," and then argues that it's in the
dictionary. You sound like you would do well bickering with junior high
students.
And I was correct: "evangelical" means
You keep using that word. It does not mean what you think it means.
# relating to or being a Christian church believing in personal conversion
and the inerrancy of the Bible especially the 4 Gospels; "evangelical
Christianity"; "an ultraconservative evangelical message"
# of or pertaining to or in keeping with the Christian gospel especially as
in the first 4 books of the New Testament
You are still not getting the proper use of the term. His "meetings" are
properly described as "evangelistic." Any further pedantry on your part
continues to demonstrate your foolishness.
meetings - replacement
theology is as arrogant as it gets.
Please elaborate.
This is one of the better articles I have seen on the subject:
http://www.axt.org.uk/essays/Kessler.htm
Here's an excerpt, with the politest way of putting it:
"But does Christianity teach that it replaces Judaism? If we examine the
traditional writings of the Church there is only one answer - yes! For
example, the church fathers argued that because Jews had rejected Jesus
as
the messiah they were punished by the destruction of the Temple in 70 CE
and
by being driven out from their land. In 135 CE after the disastrous bar
Kochba revolt, they were banned from Jerusalem, which was turned into a
Roman city. Jews only survived through the centuries, according to this
teaching, because their lowly position witnessed to the truth of
Christianity."
I'm sorry, but Christianity has always taught that Jesus was the Messiah.
You're very sorry, because that wasn't the gist of the paragraph.
You're completely missing my point.
That's fulfillment, not replacement.
Fulfillment is also replacement - thanks for admitting it anyway.
No it's not.
And how is this relevant to Graham?
If you're not going to read, or at least remember, what I already wrote,
I'm not going to bother continuing with you.
You failed to answer the question properly. And I truly hope you stick to
your word and don't bother to continue with me.
I'd still like to know what it was that you thought were "very sacred
Jewish
prayers" that Graham used.
At this point, I wouldn't cross the street to spit on you,
But you took the time to post this. I do hope you mean what you say and
don't bother to respond to this.
much less further expose my religion to your arrogance.
I merely have knowledge, of which you display a lack.
Get stuffed.
So your not interested ni intelligent discussion.
- Rick
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| User: "Rick" |
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| Title: Re: Evangelist Bill Graham Hospitalized |
21 Aug 2007 11:25:44 AM |
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Rick wrote in message ...
flaviaR@verizon.net wrote in message ...
On 21-Aug-2007, "Rick" <pl1_alpha_geek@juNOSPAM.com> wrote:
flaviaR@verizon.net wrote in message ...
[snip]
So your not interested ni
I guess I outed myself as a member of that very special knighthood.
intelligent discussion.
- Rick
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| User: "Rick" |
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| Title: Re: Evangelist Bill Graham Hospitalized |
21 Aug 2007 11:23:19 AM |
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wrote in message ...
On 21-Aug-2007, "Rick" <pl1_alpha_geek@juNOSPAM.com> wrote:
[snip]
And I was correct: "evangelical" means
# relating to or being a Christian church believing in personal conversion
and the inerrancy of the Bible especially the 4 Gospels; "evangelical
Christianity"; "an ultraconservative evangelical message"
I'd like to see your source for this. The use of "ultraconservative"
demonstrates that this source is extremely biased.
# of or pertaining to or in keeping with the Christian gospel especially as
in the first 4 books of the New Testament
- Rick
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| User: "Rick" |
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| Title: Re: Evangelist Bill Graham Hospitalized |
22 Aug 2007 11:22:31 AM |
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wrote in message
[snip]
I think my one problem with Rev. Graham was his use of very
sacred Jewish prayers in his evangelical meetings - replacement
theology is as arrogant as it gets.
I'm still interested in exactly what these "very sacred Jewish prayers"
were.
- Rick
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| User: "Rick" |
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| Title: Re: Evangelist Bill Graham Hospitalized |
25 Aug 2007 09:41:13 AM |
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Rick wrote in message ...
flaviaR@verizon.net wrote in message
[snip]
I think my one problem with Rev. Graham was his use of very
sacred Jewish prayers in his evangelical meetings - replacement
theology is as arrogant as it gets.
I'm still interested in exactly what these "very sacred Jewish prayers"
were.
I'm still waiting....
- Rick, thinking Suan doesn't know what she's talking about
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| User: "Rick" |
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| Title: Re: Evangelist Bill Graham Hospitalized |
21 Aug 2007 11:09:16 AM |
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wrote in message
[snip]
I think my one problem with Rev. Graham was his use of very
sacred Jewish prayers in his evangelical meetings - replacement
theology is as arrogant as it gets.
You still didn't explain what those "very sacred prayers" are.
- Rick
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| User: "osprey" |
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| Title: Re: Evangelist Bill Graham Hospitalized |
19 Aug 2007 04:55:00 AM |
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On Aug 19, 4:11 am, wrote:
On 19 Aug., 08:53, osprey <noneedtok...@mail.com> wrote:
On Aug 19, 2:44 am, wrote:
On 19 Aug., 04:52, "J Young" <younginsig...@aol.com> wrote:
I believe I can speak for everyone in wishing the Rev. Graham a full and
speedy recovery
No, you aren't speaking for me.
It's because of people like him that the USA are slowly turning into
one big taliban Bushkistan.
The sooner he dies, the better.
That's a horrible thing to say, about anyone and only shows your
intollerance and hatred. I don't care for evangelist either; however,
Billy Graham is probably one of the very few I respect. He isn't like
the others, he preaches the word and keeps it simple. I have never
seen him use any stage tricks or pray on the weak and/or vunerable. He
is and has been an inspiration for millions of people, actually helped
millions of people.
I have problems with "preachers" who condemns homosexuality, alcohol
and whatnot and yet never say a word about death penalty or wars
declared for no reason.
I'll grant you, Graham is probably one of the mildest, still,
preachers have WAY too much importance in the USA.
AFter all, didn't Jesus advocated praying home, discreetly?
Jesus also preached about congregation and worshipping together.
Sorry, but you're not going to lock christians up in their homes.
My relationship with God is private. Like I said, for the most part I
do not respect evangalist. Most of them, IMO, rip off the vunerable.
I do not believe in their "miracle" healings; although I do believe
that there are some miracle healings.
Billy Grahm is different though. He is respected, even by most
Presidents in his lifetime. I don't recall ever hearing of him being
involved in some sex scandal, or trying to molest children. I don't
recall him trying to rip people off.
I do recall reading many stories of him helping people, giving back to
the poor, ect...
I believe his "acts" speak for his reputation. I believe he "walks
the talk".
Now, if we were talking about someone like Jim Baker, I could
certainly understand your feelings, although I still wouldn't wish
death on him.
In regards to your opinion on the death penalty and war, that's also
understandable.
I have worked death row in corrections, I have changed my opinion on
the death penalty. While I am not pro nor anti, I remain neutral on
the issue and I can certainly understand and sympathize with both
sides.
And here you are, preaching hatred and intollerance.
Shame on you.
I'd like to see the same outrage displayed toward what some fellow
christians J Young and his antisemitic and pro nazi rant and
bobandcover and his homophobic rant send here on a daily basis.
It's simply, I just don't read most of his posts.
Strangely enough, you never find them intolerant.
Because I don't entertain his postings, I don't read them for the most
part.
And yes, I have in the past condemned some of his opinions.
The only reason I even read this post was because I saw the name Bill
Graham, and I was drawn to it because I respect Graham.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Evangelist Bill Graham Hospitalized |
19 Aug 2007 07:06:26 AM |
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On 19 Aug., 11:55, osprey <noneedtok...@mail.com> wrote:
On Aug 19, 4:11 am, wrote:
On 19 Aug., 08:53, osprey <noneedtok...@mail.com> wrote:
On Aug 19, 2:44 am, wrote:
On 19 Aug., 04:52, "J Young" <younginsig...@aol.com> wrote:
I believe I can speak for everyone in wishing the Rev. Graham a full and
speedy recovery
No, you aren't speaking for me.
It's because of people like him that the USA are slowly turning into
one big taliban Bushkistan.
The sooner he dies, the better.
That's a horrible thing to say, about anyone and only shows your
intollerance and hatred. I don't care for evangelist either; however,
Billy Graham is probably one of the very few I respect. He isn't like
the others, he preaches the word and keeps it simple. I have never
seen him use any stage tricks or pray on the weak and/or vunerable. He
is and has been an inspiration for millions of people, actually helped
millions of people.
I have problems with "preachers" who condemns homosexuality, alcohol
and whatnot and yet never say a word about death penalty or wars
declared for no reason.
I'll grant you, Graham is probably one of the mildest, still,
preachers have WAY too much importance in the USA.
AFter all, didn't Jesus advocated praying home, discreetly?
Jesus also preached about congregation and worshipping together.
Sorry, but you're not going to lock christians up in their homes.
My relationship with God is private. Like I said, for the most part I
do not respect evangalist. Most of them, IMO, rip off the vunerable.
I do not believe in their "miracle" healings; although I do believe
that there are some miracle healings.
Billy Grahm is different though. He is respected, even by most
Presidents in his lifetime. I don't recall ever hearing of him being
involved in some sex scandal, or trying to molest children. I don't
recall him trying to rip people off.
I do recall reading many stories of him helping people, giving back to
the poor, ect...
I believe his "acts" speak for his reputation. I believe he "walks
the talk".
Now, if we were talking about someone like Jim Baker, I could
certainly understand your feelings, although I still wouldn't wish
death on him.
In regards to your opinion on the death penalty and war, that's also
understandable.
I have worked death row in corrections, I have changed my opinion on
the death penalty. While I am not pro nor anti, I remain neutral on
the issue and I can certainly understand and sympathize with both
sides.
And here you are, preaching hatred and intollerance.
Shame on you.
I'd like to see the same outrage displayed toward what some fellow
christians J Young and his antisemitic and pro nazi rant and
bobandcover and his homophobic rant send here on a daily basis.
It's simply, I just don't read most of his posts.
Strangely enough, you never find them intolerant.
Because I don't entertain his postings, I don't read them for the most
part.
And yes, I have in the past condemned some of his opinions.
The only reason I even read this post was because I saw the name Bill
Graham, and I was drawn to it because I respect Graham.-
OK. I apologize if I offended you.
Whenever I see the names of J Young or bobandcarol, it brings out the
worse in me.
I admit that Billy Graham seems OK compared to several other
preachers.
However, I'm deeply worried about the radicalisation of religion in
the USA and, as a non-American, I simply don't understand this
multiplication of preachers, their importance and, basically, their
success...
I personally have no opinion on Graham. I just don't "get" it...
And as a principle, I systematically oppose whatever J Young says
because he's the vilest person I've ever encountered. I know he's just
a troll but his stance on national socialism, his racist and
homophobic stances and his "pontificating" (" I believe I can speak
for everyone..." Who the ***** does he think he is, speaking for
me?!?!?!?!) makes me... yes... intolerant... But only toward people of
his own species...
And I'll never stop calling him by whichever terms I feel appropriate.
.
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| User: "Osprey" |
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| Title: Re: Evangelist Bill Graham Hospitalized |
19 Aug 2007 12:44:00 PM |
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<parsifal50@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1187525186.264905.134000@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On 19 Aug., 11:55, osprey <noneedtok...@mail.com> wrote:
On Aug 19, 4:11 am, wrote:
On 19 Aug., 08:53, osprey <noneedtok...@mail.com> wrote:
On Aug 19, 2:44 am, wrote:
On 19 Aug., 04:52, "J Young" <younginsig...@aol.com> wrote:
I believe I can speak for everyone in wishing the Rev. Graham a
full and
speedy recovery
No, you aren't speaking for me.
It's because of people like him that the USA are slowly turning
into
one big taliban Bushkistan.
The sooner he dies, the better.
That's a horrible thing to say, about anyone and only shows your
intollerance and hatred. I don't care for evangelist either;
however,
Billy Graham is probably one of the very few I respect. He isn't
like
the others, he preaches the word and keeps it simple. I have never
seen him use any stage tricks or pray on the weak and/or vunerable.
He
is and has been an inspiration for millions of people, actually
helped
millions of people.
I have problems with "preachers" who condemns homosexuality, alcohol
and whatnot and yet never say a word about death penalty or wars
declared for no reason.
I'll grant you, Graham is probably one of the mildest, still,
preachers have WAY too much importance in the USA.
AFter all, didn't Jesus advocated praying home, discreetly?
Jesus also preached about congregation and worshipping together.
Sorry, but you're not going to lock christians up in their homes.
My relationship with God is private. Like I said, for the most part I
do not respect evangalist. Most of them, IMO, rip off the vunerable.
I do not believe in their "miracle" healings; although I do believe
that there are some miracle healings.
Billy Grahm is different though. He is respected, even by most
Presidents in his lifetime. I don't recall ever hearing of him being
involved in some sex scandal, or trying to molest children. I don't
recall him trying to rip people off.
I do recall reading many stories of him helping people, giving back to
the poor, ect...
I believe his "acts" speak for his reputation. I believe he "walks
the talk".
Now, if we were talking about someone like Jim Baker, I could
certainly understand your feelings, although I still wouldn't wish
death on him.
In regards to your opinion on the death penalty and war, that's also
understandable.
I have worked death row in corrections, I have changed my opinion on
the death penalty. While I am not pro nor anti, I remain neutral on
the issue and I can certainly understand and sympathize with both
sides.
And here you are, preaching hatred and intollerance.
Shame on you.
I'd like to see the same outrage displayed toward what some fellow
christians J Young and his antisemitic and pro nazi rant and
bobandcover and his homophobic rant send here on a daily basis.
It's simply, I just don't read most of his posts.
Strangely enough, you never find them intolerant.
Because I don't entertain his postings, I don't read them for the most
part.
And yes, I have in the past condemned some of his opinions.
The only reason I even read this post was because I saw the name Bill
Graham, and I was drawn to it because I respect Graham.-
OK. I apologize if I offended you.
Naa, you didn't "offend" me. It would take a lot for someone to offend me.
It's just a newsgroup after all.
Whenever I see the names of J Young or bobandcarol, it brings out the
worse in me.
I admit that Billy Graham seems OK compared to several other
preachers.
However, I'm deeply worried about the radicalisation of religion in
the USA and, as a non-American, I simply don't understand this
multiplication of preachers, their importance and, basically, their
success...
I personally have no opinion on Graham. I just don't "get" it...
And as a principle, I systematically oppose whatever J Young says
because he's the vilest person I've ever encountered. I know he's just
a troll but his stance on national socialism, his racist and
homophobic stances and his "pontificating" (" I believe I can speak
for everyone..." Who the ***** does he think he is, speaking for
me?!?!?!?!) makes me... yes... intolerant... But only toward people of
his own species...
And I'll never stop calling him by whichever terms I feel appropriate.
I can understand. I don't like a lot of his postings either, that's why I
just simply ignore them...for the most part.
.
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| User: "bobandcarole" |
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| Title: Re: Evangelist Bill Graham Hospitalized |
19 Aug 2007 07:53:19 AM |
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On Aug 19, 8:06?am, wrote:
On 19 Aug., 11:55, osprey <noneedtok...@mail.com> wrote:
On Aug 19, 4:11 am, wrote:
On 19 Aug., 08:53, osprey <noneedtok...@mail.com> wrote:
On Aug 19, 2:44 am, wrote:
On 19 Aug., 04:52, "J Young" <younginsig...@aol.com> wrote:
I believe I can speak for everyone in wishing the Rev. Graham a full and
speedy recovery
No, you aren't speaking for me.
It's because of people like him that the USA are slowly turning into
one big taliban Bushkistan.
The sooner he dies, the better.
That's a horrible thing to say, about anyone and only shows your
intollerance and hatred. I don't care for evangelist either; however,
Billy Graham is probably one of the very few I respect. He isn't like
the others, he preaches the word and keeps it simple. I have never
seen him use any stage tricks or pray on the weak and/or vunerable. He
is and has been an inspiration for millions of people, actually helped
millions of people.
I have problems with "preachers" who condemns homosexuality, alcohol
and whatnot and yet never say a word about death penalty or wars
declared for no reason.
I'll grant you, Graham is probably one of the mildest, still,
preachers have WAY too much importance in the USA.
AFter all, didn't Jesus advocated praying home, discreetly?
Jesus also preached about congregation and worshipping together.
Sorry, but you're not going to lock christians up in their homes.
My relationship with God is private. Like I said, for the most part I
do not respect evangalist. Most of them, IMO, rip off the vunerable.
I do not believe in their "miracle" healings; although I do believe
that there are some miracle healings.
Billy Grahm is different though. He is respected, even by most
Presidents in his lifetime. I don't recall ever hearing of him being
involved in some sex scandal, or trying to molest children. I don't
recall him trying to rip people off.
I do recall reading many stories of him helping people, giving back to
the poor, ect...
I believe his "acts" speak for his reputation. I believe he "walks
the talk".
Now, if we were talking about someone like Jim Baker, I could
certainly understand your feelings, although I still wouldn't wish
death on him.
In regards to your opinion on the death penalty and war, that's also
understandable.
I have worked death row in corrections, I have changed my opinion on
the death penalty. While I am not pro nor anti, I remain neutral on
the issue and I can certainly understand and sympathize with both
sides.
And here you are, preaching hatred and intollerance.
Shame on you.
I'd like to see the same outrage displayed toward what some fellow
christians J Young and his antisemitic and pro nazi rant and
bobandcover and his homophobic rant send here on a daily basis.
It's simply, I just don't read most of his posts.
Strangely enough, you never find them intolerant.
Because I don't entertain his postings, I don't read them for the most
part.
And yes, I have in the past condemned some of his opinions.
The only reason I even read this post was because I saw the name Bill
Graham, and I was drawn to it because I respect Graham.-
OK. I apologize if I offended you.
Whenever I see the names of J Young or bobandcarol, it brings out the
worse in me.
I admit that Billy Graham seems OK compared to several other
preachers.
However, I'm deeply worried about the radicalisation of religion in
the USA and, as a non-American, I simply don't understand this
multiplication of preachers, their importance and, basically, their
success...
I personally have no opinion on Graham. I just don't "get" it...
Ignorant fucks like you never do..........
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Evangelist Bill Graham Hospitalized |
19 Aug 2007 08:10:04 AM |
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On 19 Aug., 14:53, bobandcarole <bobandcarole...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Aug 19, 8:06?am, wrote:
On 19 Aug., 11:55, osprey <noneedtok...@mail.com> wrote:
On Aug 19, 4:11 am, wrote:
On 19 Aug., 08:53, osprey <noneedtok...@mail.com> wrote:
On Aug 19, 2:44 am, wrote:
On 19 Aug., 04:52, "J Young" <younginsig...@aol.com> wrote:
I believe I can speak for everyone in wishing the Rev. Graham a full and
speedy recovery
No, you aren't speaking for me.
It's because of people like him that the USA are slowly turning into
one big taliban Bushkistan.
The sooner he dies, the better.
That's a horrible thing to say, about anyone and only shows your
intollerance and hatred. I don't care for evangelist either; however,
Billy Graham is probably one of the very few I respect. He isn't like
the others, he preaches the word and keeps it simple. I have never
seen him use any stage tricks or pray on the weak and/or vunerable. He
is and has been an inspiration for millions of people, actually helped
millions of people.
I have problems with "preachers" who condemns homosexuality, alcohol
and whatnot and yet never say a word about death penalty or wars
declared for no reason.
I'll grant you, Graham is probably one of the mildest, still,
preachers have WAY too much importance in the USA.
AFter all, didn't Jesus advocated praying home, discreetly?
Jesus also preached about congregation and worshipping together.
Sorry, but you're not going to lock christians up in their homes.
My relationship with God is private. Like I said, for the most part I
do not respect evangalist. Most of them, IMO, rip off the vunerable.
I do not believe in their "miracle" healings; although I do believe
that there are some miracle healings.
Billy Grahm is different though. He is respected, even by most
Presidents in his lifetime. I don't recall ever hearing of him being
involved in some sex scandal, or trying to molest children. I don't
recall him trying to rip people off.
I do recall reading many stories of him helping people, giving back to
the poor, ect...
I believe his "acts" speak for his reputation. I believe he "walks
the talk".
Now, if we were talking about someone like Jim Baker, I could
certainly understand your feelings, although I still wouldn't wish
death on him.
In regards to your opinion on the death penalty and war, that's also
understandable.
I have worked death row in corrections, I have changed my opinion on
the death penalty. While I am not pro nor anti, I remain neutral on
the issue and I can certainly understand and sympathize with both
sides.
And here you are, preaching hatred and intollerance.
Shame on you.
I'd like to see the same outrage displayed toward what some fellow
christians J Young and his antisemitic and pro nazi rant and
bobandcover and his homophobic rant send here on a daily basis.
It's simply, I just don't read most of his posts.
Strangely enough, you never find them intolerant.
Because I don't entertain his postings, I don't read them for the most
part.
And yes, I have in the past condemned some of his opinions.
The only reason I even read this post was because I saw the name Bill
Graham, and I was drawn to it because I respect Graham.-
OK. I apologize if I offended you.
Whenever I see the names of J Young or bobandcarol, it brings out the
worse in me.
I admit that Billy Graham seems OK compared to several other
preachers.
However, I'm deeply worried about the radicalisation of religion in
the USA and, as a non-American, I simply don't understand this
multiplication of preachers, their importance and, basically, their
success...
I personally have no opinion on Graham. I just don't "get" it...
Ignorant fucks like you never do..........-
Go troll on discussion groups about homosexuality, gaybob... and stop
fantasizing about me... You're embarassing yourself...
.
|
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|
| User: "bobandcarole" |
|
| Title: Re: Evangelist Bill Graham Hospitalized |
19 Aug 2007 08:13:27 AM |
|
|
On Aug 19, 9:10?am, wrote:
On 19 Aug., 14:53, bobandcarole <bobandcarole...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Aug 19, 8:06?am, wrote:
On 19 Aug., 11:55, osprey <noneedtok...@mail.com> wrote:
On Aug 19, 4:11 am, wrote:
On 19 Aug., 08:53, osprey <noneedtok...@mail.com> wrote:
On Aug 19, 2:44 am, wrote:
On 19 Aug., 04:52, "J Young" <younginsig...@aol.com> wrote:
I believe I can speak for everyone in wishing the Rev. Graham a full and
speedy recovery
No, you aren't speaking for me.
It's because of people like him that the USA are slowly turning into
one big taliban Bushkistan.
The sooner he dies, the better.
That's a horrible thing to say, about anyone and only shows your
intollerance and hatred. I don't care for evangelist either; however,
Billy Graham is probably one of the very few I respect. He isn't like
the others, he preaches the word and keeps it simple. I have never
seen him use any stage tricks or pray on the weak and/or vunerable. He
is and has been an inspiration for millions of people, actually helped
millions of people.
I have problems with "preachers" who condemns homosexuality, alcohol
and whatnot and yet never say a word about death penalty or wars
declared for no reason.
I'll grant you, Graham is probably one of the mildest, still,
preachers have WAY too much importance in the USA.
AFter all, didn't Jesus advocated praying home, discreetly?
Jesus also preached about congregation and worshipping together.
Sorry, but you're not going to lock christians up in their homes.
My relationship with God is private. Like I said, for the most part I
do not respect evangalist. Most of them, IMO, rip off the vunerable.
I do not believe in their "miracle" healings; although I do believe
that there are some miracle healings.
Billy Grahm is different though. He is respected, even by most
Presidents in his lifetime. I don't recall ever hearing of him being
involved in some sex scandal, or trying to molest children. I don't
recall him trying to rip people off.
I do recall reading many stories of him helping people, giving back to
the poor, ect...
I believe his "acts" speak for his reputation. I believe he "walks
the talk".
Now, if we were talking about someone like Jim Baker, I could
certainly understand your feelings, although I still wouldn't wish
death on him.
In regards to your opinion on the death penalty and war, that's also
understandable.
I have worked death row in corrections, I have changed my opinion on
the death penalty. While I am not pro nor anti, I remain neutral on
the issue and I can certainly understand and sympathize with both
sides.
And here you are, preaching hatred and intollerance.
Shame on you.
I'd like to see the same outrage displayed toward what some fellow
christians J Young and his antisemitic and pro nazi rant and
bobandcover and his homophobic rant send here on a daily basis.
It's simply, I just don't read most of his posts.
Strangely enough, you never find them intolerant.
Because I don't entertain his postings, I don't read them for the most
part.
And yes, I have in the past condemned some of his opinions.
The only reason I even read this post was because I saw the name Bill
Graham, and I was drawn to it because I respect Graham.-
OK. I apologize if I offended you.
Whenever I see the names of J Young or bobandcarol, it brings out the
worse in me.
I admit that Billy Graham seems OK compared to several other
preachers.
However, I'm deeply worried about the radicalisation of religion in
the USA and, as a non-American, I simply don't understand this
multiplication of preachers, their importance and, basically, their
success...
I personally have no opinion on Graham. I just don't "get" it...
Ignorant fucks like you never do..........-
Go troll on discussion groups about homosexuality, gaybob... and stop
fantasizing about me...
You mean laughing at you.....
.
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| User: "ScottyFLL" |
|
| Title: Re: Evangelist Bill Graham Hospitalized |
19 Aug 2007 08:32:13 AM |
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|
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Message-ID:
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X-Deja-AN: 597971835
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit
Organization: WebTV Subscriber
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII
Mime-Version: 1.0 (WebTV)
X-WebTV-Signature: 1
ETAtAhR2SkL1wrRFHUycTObIdbiDles6xAIVALFK3FZBTgD7zo+rTuS69JTfKwbp
Content-Disposition: Inline
Newsgroups: alt.personals.big-folks
.
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| User: "Father Haskell" |
|
| Title: Re: Evangelist Bill Graham Hospitalized |
19 Aug 2007 01:19:28 PM |
|
|
On Aug 19, 5:55 am, osprey <noneedtok...@mail.com> wrote:
On Aug 19, 4:11 am, wrote:
On 19 Aug., 08:53, osprey <noneedtok...@mail.com> wrote:
On Aug 19, 2:44 am, wrote:
On 19 Aug., 04:52, "J Young" <younginsig...@aol.com> wrote:
I believe I can speak for everyone in wishing the Rev. Graham a full and
speedy recovery
No, you aren't speaking for me.
It's because of people like him that the USA are slowly turning into
one big taliban Bushkistan.
The sooner he dies, the better.
That's a horrible thing to say, about anyone and only shows your
intollerance and hatred. I don't care for evangelist either; however,
Billy Graham is probably one of the very few I respect. He isn't like
the others, he preaches the word and keeps it simple. I have never
seen him use any stage tricks or pray on the weak and/or vunerable. He
is and has been an inspiration for millions of people, actually helped
millions of people.
I have problems with "preachers" who condemns homosexuality, alcohol
and whatnot and yet never say a word about death penalty or wars
declared for no reason.
I'll grant you, Graham is probably one of the mildest, still,
preachers have WAY too much importance in the USA.
AFter all, didn't Jesus advocated praying home, discreetly?
Jesus also preached about congregation and worshipping together.
Sorry, but you're not going to lock christians up in their homes.
That'd be pointless, since end-stage xianity is terminal. Far more
practical to inoculate their children.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Al Klein" |
|
| Title: Re: Evangelist Bill Graham Hospitalized |
19 Aug 2007 06:31:48 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 11:19:28 -0700, Father Haskell
<fatherhaskell@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Aug 19, 5:55 am, osprey <noneedtok...@mail.com> wrote:
On Aug 19, 4:11 am, wrote:
AFter all, didn't Jesus advocated praying home, discreetly?
Jesus also preached about congregation and worshipping together.
Sorry, but you're not going to lock christians up in their homes.
That'd be pointless, since end-stage xianity is terminal. Far more
practical to inoculate their children.
Besides, Matthew 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the
hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and
in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I
say unto you, They have their reward.
Matthew 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and
when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret;
and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
Christians don't even know their own Bible.
.
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| User: "Don Martin" |
|
| Title: Re: Evangelist Bill Graham Hospitalized |
19 Aug 2007 11:11:02 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 02:55:00 -0700, osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com>
wrote:
My relationship with God is private.
Yet with this sentence on a public forum, you make it a public matter.
WOA* #2278
If you can't be a dirty old man, what is the point of being an old man?
Through a jaundiced eye darkly--rheum with a view.
The Squeeky Wheel
http://home.comcast.net/~drdonmartin/
__________
*Wicked Old Atheist
.
|
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| User: "No One" |
|
| Title: Re: Evangelist Bill Graham Hospitalized |
20 Aug 2007 12:09:06 AM |
|
|
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> writes:
On Aug 19, 4:11 am, wrote:
On 19 Aug., 08:53, osprey <noneedtok...@mail.com> wrote:
AFter all, didn't Jesus advocated praying home, discreetly?
Jesus also preached about congregation and worshipping together.
Sorry, but you're not going to lock christians up in their homes.
The account in the Bible claimed that Jesus objected to people making
a show of their piousness in public, praying loudly and publicly to
impress the rest of the populace. You really have to wonder about what
a person with those views would have thought of televangalists.
.
|
|
|
| User: "osprey" |
|
| Title: Re: Evangelist Bill Graham Hospitalized |
20 Aug 2007 01:14:54 AM |
|
|
On Aug 20, 1:09 am, No One <no...@nospam.pacbell.net> wrote:
osprey <noneedtok...@mail.com> writes:
On Aug 19, 4:11 am, wrote:
On 19 Aug., 08:53, osprey <noneedtok...@mail.com> wrote:
AFter all, didn't Jesus advocated praying home, discreetly?
Jesus also preached about congregation and worshipping together.
Sorry, but you're not going to lock christians up in their homes.
The account in the Bible claimed that Jesus objected to people making
a show of their piousness in public, praying loudly and publicly to
impress the rest of the populace. You really have to wonder about what
a person with those views would have thought of televangalists.
That's one main reason I don't respect most of these televangalist.
Billy Graham was different though.
Some of these guys on television really bug me with their loud
preaching.
Example: Benny Hinn
Now, he can preach..I'll give him that.
But that miracle healing stuff.
Here is a guy sitting on a chair made of gold, wearing a suit that
probably cost thousands, and expensive jewlry...making these so called
miracle healings.
Now, if you could perform miracle healings...don't you think you would
be out in the real world helping people?
I believe that is what Jesus was talking about. Go out and do these
things, but you don't need to draw attention to yourself and make big
announcements.
Mother Teresa was a good example of Jesus Christ teachings.
The televangalist remind me of the prophecies in the bible that warn
us about being aware of false preachers and prophets.
.
|
|
|
| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
|
| Title: Re: Evangelist Bill Graham Hospitalized |
20 Aug 2007 06:07:01 AM |
|
|
In article <1187590494.775166.172800@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>,
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
That's one main reason I don't respect most of these televangalist.
do they do the same thing you do; repeat lies that they already
admitted were lies?
prison clerk
--
get real. like jesus would ever own a gun or vote republican.
.
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| User: "Don Martin" |
|
| Title: Re: Evangelist Bill Graham Hospitalized |
19 Aug 2007 11:09:48 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 23:53:00 -0700, osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com>
wrote:
Billy Graham is probably one of the very few I respect. He isn't like
the others, he preaches the word and keeps it simple. I have never
seen him use any stage tricks or pray on the weak and/or vunerable.
Back in the 50's, I was amused to note that this worthy got from
revival to revival in a fleet of seven Cadillacs (the number has
doubtless increased since then). I wondered at the time why his holy
arse couldn't be carted about in Fords or Chevvys, but was informed by
older and wiser persons that Graham needed to impress the folks he was
to convert, and Fords or Chevvys simply were not impressive enough to
do that. This ploy to impress is a stage trick, designed to prey upon
the the weak and/or vulnerable folks simple minded enough to attend
one of his seances.
WOA* #2278
If you can't be a dirty old man, what is the point of being an old man?
Through a jaundiced eye darkly--rheum with a view.
The Squeeky Wheel
http://home.comcast.net/~drdonmartin/
__________
*Wicked Old Atheist
.
|
|
|
| User: "Al Klein" |
|
| Title: Re: Evangelist Bill Graham Hospitalized |
19 Aug 2007 06:32:45 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 11:09:48 -0500, Don Martin
<drdonmartin@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 23:53:00 -0700, osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com>
wrote:
Billy Graham is probably one of the very few I respect. He isn't like
the others, he preaches the word and keeps it simple. I have never
seen him use any stage tricks or pray on the weak and/or vunerable.
Back in the 50's, I was amused to note that this worthy got from
revival to revival in a fleet of seven Cadillacs (the number has
doubtless increased since then). I wondered at the time why his holy
arse couldn't be carted about in Fords or Chevvys, but was informed by
older and wiser persons that Graham needed to impress the folks he was
to convert, and Fords or Chevvys simply were not impressive enough to
do that. This ploy to impress is a stage trick, designed to prey upon
the the weak and/or vulnerable folks simple minded enough to attend
one of his seances.
Show me a wealthy preacher and I'll show you a man who doesn't believe
what he preaches.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Father Haskell" |
|
| Title: Re: Evangelist Bill Graham Hospitalized |
19 Aug 2007 08:28:47 PM |
|
|
On Aug 19, 7:32 pm, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 11:09:48 -0500, Don Martin
<drdonmar...@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 23:53:00 -0700, osprey <noneedtok...@mail.com>
wrote:
Billy Graham is probably one of the very few I respect. He isn't like
the others, he preaches the word and keeps it simple. I have never
seen him use any stage tricks or pray on the weak and/or vunerable.
Back in the 50's, I was amused to note that this worthy got from
revival to revival in a fleet of seven Cadillacs (the number has
doubtless increased since then). I wondered at the time why his holy
arse couldn't be carted about in Fords or Chevvys, but was informed by
older and wiser persons that Graham needed to impress the folks he was
to convert, and Fords or Chevvys simply were not impressive enough to
do that. This ploy to impress is a stage trick, designed to prey upon
the the weak and/or vulnerable folks simple minded enough to attend
one of his seances.
Show me a wealthy preacher and I'll show you a man who doesn't believe
what he preaches.
I hope his last words are "IT WAS A SCAM!" or something to
that effect.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Al Klein" |
|
| Title: Re: Evangelist Bill Graham Hospitalized |
19 Aug 2007 10:21:25 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 18:28:47 -0700, Father Haskell
<fatherhaskell@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Aug 19, 7:32 pm, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 11:09:48 -0500, Don Martin
<drdonmar...@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 23:53:00 -0700, osprey <noneedtok...@mail.com>
wrote:
Billy Graham is probably one of the very few I respect. He isn't like
the others, he preaches the word and keeps it simple. I have never
seen him use any stage tricks or pray on the weak and/or vunerable.
Back in the 50's, I was amused to note that this worthy got from
revival to revival in a fleet of seven Cadillacs (the number has
doubtless increased since then). I wondered at the time why his holy
arse couldn't be carted about in Fords or Chevvys, but was informed by
older and wiser persons that Graham needed to impress the folks he was
to convert, and Fords or Chevvys simply were not impressive enough to
do that. This ploy to impress is a stage trick, designed to prey upon
the the weak and/or vulnerable folks simple minded enough to attend
one of his seances.
Show me a wealthy preacher and I'll show you a man who doesn't believe
what he preaches.
I hope his last words are "IT WAS A SCAM!" or something to
that effect.
Unfortunately he'll never get to utter the NEXT words - "THAT'S what
it really is?" It's got to be worse for Christians, if they
understand with their dying thought.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Father Haskell" |
|
| Title: Re: Evangelist Bill Graham Hospitalized |
20 Aug 2007 01:20:34 AM |
|
|
On Aug 19, 11:21 pm, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 18:28:47 -0700, Father Haskell
<fatherhask...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Aug 19, 7:32 pm, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 11:09:48 -0500, Don Martin
<drdonmar...@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 23:53:00 -0700, osprey <noneedtok...@mail.com>
wrote:
Billy Graham is probably one of the very few I respect. He isn't like
the others, he preaches the word and keeps it simple. I have never
seen him use any stage tricks or pray on the weak and/or vunerable.
Back in the 50's, I was amused to note that this worthy got from
revival to revival in a fleet of seven Cadillacs (the number has
doubtless increased since then). I wondered at the time why his holy
arse couldn't be carted about in Fords or Chevvys, but was informed by
older and wiser persons that Graham needed to impress the folks he was
to convert, and Fords or Chevvys simply were not impressive enough to
do that. This ploy to impress is a stage trick, designed to prey upon
the the weak and/or vulnerable folks simple minded enough to attend
one of his seances.
Show me a wealthy preacher and I'll show you a man who doesn't believe
what he preaches.
I hope his last words are "IT WAS A SCAM!" or something to
that effect.
Unfortunately he'll never get to utter the NEXT words - "THAT'S what
it really is?" It's got to be worse for Christians, if they
understand with their dying thought.
You mean it's hell for them?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Al Klein" |
|
| Title: Re: Evangelist Bill Graham Hospitalized |
20 Aug 2007 07:56:32 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 23:20:34 -0700, Father Haskell
<fatherhaskell@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Aug 19, 11:21 pm, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 18:28:47 -0700, Father Haskell
<fatherhask...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Aug 19, 7:32 pm, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 11:09:48 -0500, Don Martin
<drdonmar...@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 23:53:00 -0700, osprey <noneedtok...@mail.com>
wrote:
Billy Graham is probably one of the very few I respect. He isn't like
the others, he preaches the word and keeps it simple. I have never
seen him use any stage tricks or pray on the weak and/or vunerable.
Back in the 50's, I was amused to note that this worthy got from
revival to revival in a fleet of seven Cadillacs (the number has
doubtless increased since then). I wondered at the time why his holy
arse couldn't be carted about in Fords or Chevvys, but was informed by
older and wiser persons that Graham needed to impress the folks he was
to convert, and Fords or Chevvys simply were not impressive enough to
do that. This ploy to impress is a stage trick, designed to prey upon
the the weak and/or vulnerable folks simple minded enough to attend
one of his seances.
Show me a wealthy preacher and I'll show you a man who doesn't believe
what he preaches.
I hope his last words are "IT WAS A SCAM!" or something to
that effect.
Unfortunately he'll never get to utter the NEXT words - "THAT'S what
it really is?" It's got to be worse for Christians, if they
understand with their dying thought.
You mean it's hell for them?
I'm a sadist, so I'm not going to give them even a hint of what's to
come. They can experience the horror first hand. But I think
everyone who has ever died will agree with me that Christians, if
they're aware long enough after death, are in for a rude shock.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Father Haskell" |
|
| Title: Re: Evangelist Bill Graham Hospitalized |
20 Aug 2007 10:41:09 AM |
|
|
On Aug 20, 8:56 am, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 23:20:34 -0700, Father Haskell
<fatherhask...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Aug 19, 11:21 pm, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 18:28:47 -0700, Father Haskell
<fatherhask...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Aug 19, 7:32 pm, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 11:09:48 -0500, Don Martin
<drdonmar...@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 23:53:00 -0700, osprey <noneedtok...@mail.com>
wrote:
Billy Graham is probably one of the very few I respect. He isn't like
the others, he preaches the word and keeps it simple. I have never
seen him use any stage tricks or pray on the weak and/or vunerable.
Back in the 50's, I was amused to note that this worthy got from
revival to revival in a fleet of seven Cadillacs (the number has
doubtless increased since then). I wondered at the time why his holy
arse couldn't be carted about in Fords or Chevvys, but was informed by
older and wiser persons that Graham needed to impress the folks he was
to convert, and Fords or Chevvys simply were not impressive enough to
do that. This ploy to impress is a stage trick, designed to prey upon
the the weak and/or vulnerable folks simple minded enough to attend
one of his seances.
Show me a wealthy preacher and I'll show you a man who doesn't believe
what he preaches.
I hope his last words are "IT WAS A SCAM!" or something to
that effect.
Unfortunately he'll never get to utter the NEXT words - "THAT'S what
it really is?" It's got to be worse for Christians, if they
understand with their dying thought.
You mean it's hell for them?
I'm a sadist, so I'm not going to give them even a hint of what's to
come. They can experience the horror first hand. But I think
everyone who has ever died will agree with me that Christians, if
they're aware long enough after death, are in for a rude shock.
The credits roll, the curtain falls, the lights go out, one by one,
and then nothing.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Al Klein" |
|
| Title: Re: Evangelist Bill Graham Hospitalized |
20 Aug 2007 08:20:48 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 08:41:09 -0700, Father Haskell
<fatherhaskell@yahoo.com> wrote:
The credits roll, the curtain falls, the lights go out, one by one,
and then nothing.
And if a Christian realizes that ...
Hell would probably be better, if a bit longer.
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: Evangelist Bill Graham Hospitalized |
19 Aug 2007 12:18:00 PM |
|
|
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
On Aug 19, 2:44 am, wrote:
On 19 Aug., 04:52, "J Young" <younginsig...@aol.com> wrote:
I believe I can speak for everyone in wishing the Rev. Graham a full and
speedy recovery
No, you aren't speaking for me.
It's because of people like him that the USA are slowly turning into
one big taliban Bushkistan.
The sooner he dies, the better.
That's a horrible thing to say,
But no worse than some of the filth you have written, *****.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
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|
| User: "Andres64" |
|
| Title: Re: Evangelist Bill Graham Hospitalized |
19 Aug 2007 01:53:27 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 02:44:40 -0400, <parsifal50@gmail.com> wrote:
On 19 Aug., 04:52, "J Young" <younginsig...@aol.com> wrote:
I believe I can speak for everyone in wishing the Rev. Graham a full and
speedy recovery
No, you aren't speaking for me.
It's because of people like him that the USA are slowly turning into
one big taliban Bushkistan.
The sooner he dies, the better.
Let us pray.
--
#1624
.
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| User: "Syd M." |
|
| Title: Re: Evangelist Bill Graham Hospitalized |
19 Aug 2007 02:30:00 AM |
|
|
On Aug 18, 10:52 pm, "J Young" <younginsig...@aol.com> wrote:
I believe I can speak for everyone in wishing the Rev. Graham a full and
speedy recovery
http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=4105669...
I believe I can speak for everyone here to tell you to go to hell,
JrkYoung..
PDW
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