Religions > Atheism > Every U.S. Citizen required to acknowledge evolution is true?
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"LP" |
| Date: |
15 Jun 2004 05:49:17 PM |
| Object: |
Every U.S. Citizen required to acknowledge evolution is true? |
When discussing the "Under God" case with Christians (and even some
atheists) I repeatedly hear the comment "so what" and "what does it
matter". I wonder though, how would they feel if they were required to
sign a statement saying they acknowledge that evolution is true? What
if this acknowledgment was part of the Pledge of Allegiance? I would
never support such a thing, Something that is unrelated to a pledge of
allegiance should not be in the pledge.
As for me, I will never again utter the pledge until the pledge is
changed to be more representative of ALL U.S. citizens.
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| User: "Thomas P." |
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| Title: Re: Every U.S. Citizen required to acknowledge evolution is true? |
16 Jun 2004 02:28:00 AM |
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On 15 Jun 2004 17:49:17 -0500, LP <whirl_pool@nospam.hotmail.com>
wrote:
When discussing the "Under God" case with Christians (and even some
atheists) I repeatedly hear the comment "so what" and "what does it
matter". I wonder though, how would they feel if they were required to
sign a statement saying they acknowledge that evolution is true? What
if this acknowledgment was part of the Pledge of Allegiance? I would
never support such a thing, Something that is unrelated to a pledge of
allegiance should not be in the pledge.
As for me, I will never again utter the pledge until the pledge is
changed to be more representative of ALL U.S. citizens.
I agree that including "under God" in the pledge is offensive, but
having any kind of state supported pledge ceremony is a violation of
freedom of speech.
Thomas P.
None of the Emperor's clothes had been so successful before.
"But he has got nothing on," said a little child.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Every U.S. Citizen required to acknowledge evolution is true? |
17 Jun 2004 05:57:51 PM |
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On 15 Jun 2004 17:49:17 -0500, LP <whirl_pool@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
When discussing the "Under God" case with Christians (and even some
atheists) I repeatedly hear the comment "so what" and "what does it
matter". I wonder though, how would they feel if they were required to
sign a statement saying they acknowledge that evolution is true?
Evolution is true. It addresses the physical development of the human being.
Creationism is true. It's addresses the spiritual development of the human being.
Time to get off that rock, dude.
duke
*****
I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear
it now. When he comes, the Holy Spirit will declare
to you the things that are coming. John 16:12-15.
*****
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| User: "LP" |
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| Title: Re: Every U.S. Citizen required to acknowledge evolution is true? |
18 Jun 2004 10:39:17 AM |
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On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 17:57:51 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 15 Jun 2004 17:49:17 -0500, LP <whirl_pool@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
When discussing the "Under God" case with Christians (and even some
atheists) I repeatedly hear the comment "so what" and "what does it
matter". I wonder though, how would they feel if they were required to
sign a statement saying they acknowledge that evolution is true?
Evolution is true. It addresses the physical development of the human being.
Creationism is true. It's addresses the spiritual development of the human being.
Time to get off that rock, dude.
The point of the post is not whether or not evolution is true.
The point is that well over 30 million people in the US do not believe
the nation is under any gods. To have an oath of allegiance that
contains something that prevents 10% of the population from saying it
meaningfully, is ludicrous.
Including in an oath of allegiance something that the people saying
the oath fundamentally do not believe is ridiculous, especially when
the thing that is included is unrelated and unnecessary to the oath.
Having "under god" in the oath is unacceptable to atheists.
Having an oath stating their "belief in evolution" would be
unacceptable to a creationist.
Creationists would not consider saying that this inclusion, "isn't a
big deal", or that "it doesn't matter", not if they take an oath of
allegiance with the seriousness it was intended to have.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Every U.S. Citizen required to acknowledge evolution is true? |
19 Jun 2004 07:38:35 AM |
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On 18 Jun 2004 10:39:17 -0500, LP <whirl_pool@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
Evolution is true. It addresses the physical development of the human being.
Creationism is true. It's addresses the spiritual development of the human being.
Time to get off that rock, dude.
The point of the post is not whether or not evolution is true.
Well, yes it is.
The point is that well over 30 million people in the US do not believe
the nation is under any gods. To have an oath of allegiance that
contains something that prevents 10% of the population from saying it
meaningfully, is ludicrous.
Well, noooooooo, I never heard that reasoning before.
Including in an oath of allegiance something that the people saying
the oath fundamentally do not believe is ridiculous, especially when
the thing that is included is unrelated and unnecessary to the oath.
Do you say the pledge of allegiance? Do you refuse to carry money because it has "In God
we trust" on it. Do you reject virtually 100% of all politicians because the took their
oath of office on a bible? Do you reject our Congress because they open their sessions
with a convocation to God?
Having "under god" in the oath is unacceptable to atheists.
Having an oath stating their "belief in evolution" would be
unacceptable to a creationist.
I think you got your subjects mixed up.
Creationists would not consider saying that this inclusion, "isn't a
big deal", or that "it doesn't matter", not if they take an oath of
allegiance with the seriousness it was intended to have.
I *wouldn't* say such a stupid thing.
duke
*****
I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear
it now. When he comes, the Holy Spirit will declare
to you the things that are coming. John 16:12-15.
*****
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| User: "LP" |
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| Title: Re: Every U.S. Citizen required to acknowledge evolution is true? |
19 Jun 2004 03:44:31 PM |
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On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 07:38:35 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 18 Jun 2004 10:39:17 -0500, LP <whirl_pool@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
Evolution is true. It addresses the physical development of the human being.
Creationism is true. It's addresses the spiritual development of the human being.
Time to get off that rock, dude.
The point of the post is not whether or not evolution is true.
Well, yes it is.
The point is that well over 30 million people in the US do not believe
the nation is under any gods. To have an oath of allegiance that
contains something that prevents 10% of the population from saying it
meaningfully, is ludicrous.
Well, noooooooo, I never heard that reasoning before.
Including in an oath of allegiance something that the people saying
the oath fundamentally do not believe is ridiculous, especially when
the thing that is included is unrelated and unnecessary to the oath.
Do you say the pledge of allegiance?
I do not say the pledge.
I used to, but I would just leave off the religious part.
I no longer say it at all.
Until I see evidence that the government is no longer promoting
religion, I will refrain from saying the pledge.
Do you refuse to carry money because it has "In God
we trust" on it.
Once it passes through my hands,
my money no longer says "In God We Trust" on it.
I have a self inking rubber stamp that says,
"Gods are just superstition."
It cost me only $15 at an office supply store.
Do you reject virtually 100% of all politicians because the took their
oath of office on a bible?
They are not required to say an oath on the Bible.
Article. VI.
Clause 3: The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the
Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and
judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several
States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this
Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a
Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Constitution.html
Do you reject our Congress because they open their sessions
with a convocation to God?
Having "under god" in the oath is unacceptable to atheists.
Having an oath stating their "belief in evolution" would be
unacceptable to a creationist.
I think you got your subjects mixed up.
No, I did not.
Creationists would not consider saying that this inclusion, "isn't a
big deal", or that "it doesn't matter", not if they take an oath of
allegiance with the seriousness it was intended to have.
I *wouldn't* say such a stupid thing.
Why the sudden change?
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Every U.S. Citizen required to acknowledge evolution is true? |
20 Jun 2004 11:08:30 AM |
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On 19 Jun 2004 15:44:31 -0500, LP <whirl_pool@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
Do you say the pledge of allegiance?
I do not say the pledge.
Not an American, eh.
I used to, but I would just leave off the religious part.
I no longer say it at all.
Until I see evidence that the government is no longer promoting
religion, I will refrain from saying the pledge.
Your loss.
Do you refuse to carry money because it has "In God
we trust" on it.
Once it passes through my hands,
my money no longer says "In God We Trust" on it.
I have a self inking rubber stamp that says,
"Gods are just superstition."
It cost me only $15 at an office supply store.
Boy, you're really sick, aren't you.
Do you reject virtually 100% of all politicians because the took their
oath of office on a bible?
They are not required to say an oath on the Bible.
But they do. Who would believe them if they didn't.
Do you reject our Congress because they open their sessions
with a convocation to God?
No answer?
Having "under god" in the oath is unacceptable to atheists.
Having an oath stating their "belief in evolution" would be
unacceptable to a creationist.
I think you got your subjects mixed up.
No, I did not.
Yep, only you would want to see a pledge of allegiance that says "under evolution".
Creationists would not consider saying that this inclusion, "isn't a
big deal", or that "it doesn't matter", not if they take an oath of
allegiance with the seriousness it was intended to have.
I *wouldn't* say such a stupid thing.
Why the sudden change?
No change. I wouldn't say "under evolution".
duke
*****
I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear
it now. When he comes, the Holy Spirit will declare
to you the things that are coming. John 16:12-15.
*****
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| User: "AngryJohn" |
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| Title: Re: Every U.S. Citizen required to acknowledge evolution is true? |
20 Jun 2004 10:51:39 PM |
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On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 11:08:30 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 19 Jun 2004 15:44:31 -0500, LP <whirl_pool@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
Do you reject virtually 100% of all politicians because the took their
oath of office on a bible?
They are not required to say an oath on the Bible.
But they do. Who would believe them if they didn't.
If that is your litmus test for believing the words of a politician
then you are even more of a moron than I originally thought. That was
a hard task to accomplish old dookie.
Your god is so powerful that he ensures that every politician that
takes that oath never tells a lie. Like our current president. Hell,
like ANY politician.
------------------------------
aa#2106
Remove Belief to reply
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| User: "LP" |
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| Title: Re: Every U.S. Citizen required to acknowledge evolution is true? |
20 Jun 2004 01:12:34 PM |
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On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 11:08:30 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 19 Jun 2004 15:44:31 -0500, LP <whirl_pool@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
Do you say the pledge of allegiance?
I do not say the pledge.
Not an American, eh.
I do not say it out of respect for those who founded this country.
Those who want the altered unconstitutional version of the pledge have
little understanding of the principles that motivated the founders.
By his own instruction, Thomas Jefferson's tombstone notes the
following three achievements:
1) His authorship of the Declaration of Independence,
2) His founding of the University of Virginia,
3) His responsibility for Virginia's Statute of Religious Freedom
Why do you suppose that Thomas Jefferson felt compelled to lists the
third item?
You can read Virginia's Statute of Religious Freedom here:
http://www.worldpolicy.org/globalrights/religion/va-religiousfreedom.html
I used to, but I would just leave off the religious part.
I no longer say it at all.
Until I see evidence that the government is no longer promoting
religion, I will refrain from saying the pledge.
Your loss.
Do you refuse to carry money because it has "In God
we trust" on it.
Once it passes through my hands,
my money no longer says "In God We Trust" on it.
I have a self inking rubber stamp that says,
"Gods are just superstition."
It cost me only $15 at an office supply store.
Boy, you're really sick, aren't you.
You want a slogan on money proclaiming trust to an imaginary creature,
while I prefer something educational, and I'm the one whose sick?
Do you reject virtually 100% of all politicians because the took their
oath of office on a bible?
They are not required to say an oath on the Bible.
But they do. Who would believe them if they didn't.
Do you reject our Congress because they open their sessions
with a convocation to God?
No answer?
I consider them un-american for not upholding the constitution.
However, it is noteworthy that they are not required to participate.
Article. VI.
Clause 3: The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the
Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and
judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several
States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this
Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a
Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Constitution.html
Having "under god" in the oath is unacceptable to atheists.
Having an oath stating their "belief in evolution" would be
unacceptable to a creationist.
I think you got your subjects mixed up.
No, I did not.
Yep, only you would want to see a pledge of allegiance that says "under evolution".
Where did I ever say I wanted such a thing?
You apparently have a serious reading comprehension problem.
Creationists would not consider saying that this inclusion, "isn't a
big deal", or that "it doesn't matter", not if they take an oath of
allegiance with the seriousness it was intended to have.
I *wouldn't* say such a stupid thing.
Why the sudden change?
No change. I wouldn't say "under evolution".
But you claim you wouldn't say it because it would be stupid. If you
applied that rule to your posts on usenet It wouldn't have left you
with much to say.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Every U.S. Citizen required to acknowledge evolution is true? |
20 Jun 2004 05:35:10 PM |
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On 20 Jun 2004 13:12:34 -0500, LP <whirl_pool@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
Do you say the pledge of allegiance?
I do not say the pledge.
Not an American, eh.
I do not say it out of respect for those who founded this country.
Those that founded this country do so to enjoy freedom of religion, amongst other
freedoms.
Those who want the altered unconstitutional version of the pledge have
little understanding of the principles that motivated the founders.
Or do exactly that.
By his own instruction, Thomas Jefferson's tombstone notes the
following three achievements:
1) His authorship of the Declaration of Independence,
2) His founding of the University of Virginia,
3) His responsibility for Virginia's Statute of Religious Freedom
Why do you suppose that Thomas Jefferson felt compelled to lists the
third item?
Well, I don't know what Virginia's statute says, but it appears to say we are free to
worship or not worship as our choice. What it doesn't say nothing, nothing at all, about
is being able to live free of the religion, or impact of religion, of others.
Why don't you review it.
You can read Virginia's Statute of Religious Freedom here:
http://www.worldpolicy.org/globalrights/religion/va-religiousfreedom.html
I used to, but I would just leave off the religious part.
I no longer say it at all.
Until I see evidence that the government is no longer promoting
religion, I will refrain from saying the pledge.
Your loss.
Do you refuse to carry money because it has "In God
we trust" on it.
Once it passes through my hands,
my money no longer says "In God We Trust" on it.
I have a self inking rubber stamp that says,
"Gods are just superstition."
It cost me only $15 at an office supply store.
Boy, you're really sick, aren't you.
You want a slogan on money proclaiming trust to an imaginary creature,
while I prefer something educational, and I'm the one whose sick?
So now you're defacing the American money system, and you want to believe others are sick?
Do you reject virtually 100% of all politicians because the took their
oath of office on a bible?
They are not required to say an oath on the Bible.
But they do. Who would believe them if they didn't.
No answer, I see.
Do you reject our Congress because they open their sessions
with a convocation to God?
No answer?
I consider them un-american for not upholding the constitution.
But they are. The Amendments are to bring up errors of prior judgment.
However, it is noteworthy that they are not required to participate.
That's why they were elected. Kick them out.
Article. VI.
Clause 3: The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the
Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and
judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several
States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this
Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a
Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Constitution.html
That's right, you don't have to be a Christian, or an atheist, to be a part of the elected
government of this nation. Both are acceptable.
Having "under god" in the oath is unacceptable to atheists.
Having an oath stating their "belief in evolution" would be
unacceptable to a creationist.
I think you got your subjects mixed up.
No, I did not.
Yep, only you would want to see a pledge of allegiance that says "under evolution".
Where did I ever say I wanted such a thing?
You apparently have a serious reading comprehension problem.
Nope.
Creationists would not consider saying that this inclusion, "isn't a
big deal", or that "it doesn't matter", not if they take an oath of
allegiance with the seriousness it was intended to have.
I *wouldn't* say such a stupid thing.
Why the sudden change?
No change. I wouldn't say "under evolution".
But you claim you wouldn't say it because it would be stupid. If you
applied that rule to your posts on usenet It wouldn't have left you
with much to say.
You think for a minute that because I leave atheists heads spinning is not to my liking.
It is my intent to set the record straight.
duke
*****
I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear
it now. When he comes, the Holy Spirit will declare
to you the things that are coming. John 16:12-15.
*****
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| User: "LP" |
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| Title: Re: Every U.S. Citizen required to acknowledge evolution is true? |
21 Jun 2004 12:50:06 AM |
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On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 17:35:10 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 20 Jun 2004 13:12:34 -0500, LP <whirl_pool@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
Do you say the pledge of allegiance?
I do not say the pledge.
Not an American, eh.
I do not say it out of respect for those who founded this country.
Those that founded this country do so to enjoy freedom of religion, amongst other
freedoms.
Those who want the altered unconstitutional version of the pledge have
little understanding of the principles that motivated the founders.
Or do exactly that.
By his own instruction, Thomas Jefferson's tombstone notes the
following three achievements:
1) His authorship of the Declaration of Independence,
2) His founding of the University of Virginia,
3) His responsibility for Virginia's Statute of Religious Freedom
Why do you suppose that Thomas Jefferson felt compelled to lists the
third item?
Well, I don't know what Virginia's statute says, but it appears to say we are free to
worship or not worship as our choice. What it doesn't say nothing, nothing at all, about
is being able to live free of the religion, or impact of religion, of others.
Why don't you review it.
You have to be spoon fed everything, and even then the simple facts of
the data go right over your head.
Here is the passage from the "Virginia's Statute of Religious Freedom"
that is intended to prevent any religion from being forced on those
who don't want it. You will probably need to read it a few time and
have someone help look up the words in a dictionary so that you can
actually understand the meaning.
"Be it enacted by the General Assembly, That no man shall be compelled
to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry
whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burdened
in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer on account of his
religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to
profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinion in matters of
religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish enlarge, or
affect their civil capacities"
These words meant so much to Thomas Jefferson that it was one of the
three accomplishments that he chose to have engraved on his tombstone.
You can read entire Virginia's Statute of Religious Freedom here:
http://www.worldpolicy.org/globalrights/religion/va-religiousfreedom.html
http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/facts/democrac/42.htm
"Jefferson drafted the measure, but it was Madison who skillfully
secured its adoption by the Virginia legislature in 1786. It is still
part of modern Virginia's constitution, and it has not only been
copied by other states but was also the basis for the Religion Clauses
in the Constitution's Bill of Rights. Both men considered this bill
one of the great achievements of their lives, and Jefferson directed
that on his tombstone he should not be remembered as president of the
United States or for any of the other high offices he held, but as the
author of the Declaration of Independence and the Virginia Statute for
Religious Freedom, and as the founder of the University of Virginia."
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| User: "Thomas P." |
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| Title: Re: Every U.S. Citizen required to acknowledge evolution is true? |
21 Jun 2004 01:31:06 AM |
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On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 17:35:10 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 20 Jun 2004 13:12:34 -0500, LP <whirl_pool@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
Do you say the pledge of allegiance?
I do not say the pledge.
Not an American, eh.
I do not say it out of respect for those who founded this country.
Those that founded this country do so to enjoy freedom of religion, amongst other
freedoms.
Says the man who wants to violate the religious freedom of those who
do not want a government supported pledge to his god.
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| User: "Puck Greenman" |
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| Title: Re: Every U.S. Citizen required to acknowledge evolution is true? |
23 Jun 2004 02:49:42 AM |
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On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 07:38:35 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
Creationists would not consider saying that this inclusion, "isn't a
big deal", or that "it doesn't matter", not if they take an oath of
allegiance with the seriousness it was intended to have.
I *wouldn't* say such a stupid thing.
Suppose the words were "Under Shiva"?
Puck Greenman
#162
BAAWA Knight.
Blesed is the self righteous xtian,
for his is the sure and certain knowledge
that no matter what load of tripe he
comes out with:
God told him to say it.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Every U.S. Citizen required to acknowledge evolution is true? |
19 Jun 2004 01:07:21 PM |
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On 18 Jun 2004 10:39:17 -0500, LP <whirl_pool@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
Evolution is true. It addresses the physical development of the human being.
Creationism is true. It's addresses the spiritual development of the human being.
Time to get off that rock, dude.
The point of the post is not whether or not evolution is true.
Well, yes it is.
The point is that well over 30 million people in the US do not believe
the nation is under any gods. To have an oath of allegiance that
contains something that prevents 10% of the population from saying it
meaningfully, is ludicrous.
Well, noooooooo, I never heard that reasoning before.
Including in an oath of allegiance something that the people saying
the oath fundamentally do not believe is ridiculous, especially when
the thing that is included is unrelated and unnecessary to the oath.
Do you say the pledge of allegiance? Do you refuse to carry money because it has "In God
we trust" on it. Do you reject virtually 100% of all politicians because the took their
oath of office on a bible? Do you reject our Congress because they open their sessions
with a convocation to God?
Having "under god" in the oath is unacceptable to atheists.
Having an oath stating their "belief in evolution" would be
unacceptable to a creationist.
I think you got your subjects mixed up.
Creationists would not consider saying that this inclusion, "isn't a
big deal", or that "it doesn't matter", not if they take an oath of
allegiance with the seriousness it was intended to have.
I *wouldn't* say such a stupid thing.
duke
*****
I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear
it now. When he comes, the Holy Spirit will declare
to you the things that are coming. John 16:12-15.
*****
.
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| User: "Thomas P." |
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| Title: Re: Every U.S. Citizen required to acknowledge evolution is true? |
20 Jun 2004 03:29:21 AM |
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On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 13:07:21 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 18 Jun 2004 10:39:17 -0500, LP <whirl_pool@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
Evolution is true. It addresses the physical development of the human being.
Creationism is true. It's addresses the spiritual development of the human being.
Time to get off that rock, dude.
The point of the post is not whether or not evolution is true.
Well, yes it is.
Not in this thread boobie.
The point is that well over 30 million people in the US do not believe
the nation is under any gods. To have an oath of allegiance that
contains something that prevents 10% of the population from saying it
meaningfully, is ludicrous.
Well, noooooooo, I never heard that reasoning before.
That's right Duke; keep repeating IS NOT IS NOT IS NOT. It makes a
wonderful impression.
snip
Thomas P.
None of the Emperor's clothes had been so successful before.
"But he has got nothing on," said a little child.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Every U.S. Citizen required to acknowledge evolution is true? |
20 Jun 2004 11:04:16 AM |
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On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 10:29:21 +0200, Thomas P. <tonyofbexarremovethis@yahoo.dk> wrote:
The point of the post is not whether or not evolution is true.
Well, yes it is.
Not in this thread boobie.
Then what is it?
The point is that well over 30 million people in the US do not believe
the nation is under any gods. To have an oath of allegiance that
contains something that prevents 10% of the population from saying it
meaningfully, is ludicrous.
Well, noooooooo, I never heard that reasoning before.
That's right Duke; keep repeating IS NOT IS NOT IS NOT. It makes a
wonderful impression.
And truthful.
duke
*****
I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear
it now. When he comes, the Holy Spirit will declare
to you the things that are coming. John 16:12-15.
*****
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| User: "Thomas P." |
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| Title: Re: Every U.S. Citizen required to acknowledge evolution is true? |
21 Jun 2004 01:31:04 AM |
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On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 11:04:16 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 10:29:21 +0200, Thomas P. <tonyofbexarremovethis@yahoo.dk> wrote:
The point of the post is not whether or not evolution is true.
Well, yes it is.
Not in this thread boobie.
Then what is it?
The point is that well over 30 million people in the US do not believe
the nation is under any gods. To have an oath of allegiance that
contains something that prevents 10% of the population from saying it
meaningfully, is ludicrous.
Well, noooooooo, I never heard that reasoning before.
That's right Duke; keep repeating IS NOT IS NOT IS NOT. It makes a
wonderful impression.
And truthful.
If you think you are telling the truth you are insane. Your lie above
is sillier than most you have told.
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| User: "Thomas P." |
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| Title: Re: Every U.S. Citizen required to acknowledge evolution is true? |
17 Jun 2004 11:28:55 PM |
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On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 17:57:51 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 15 Jun 2004 17:49:17 -0500, LP <whirl_pool@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
When discussing the "Under God" case with Christians (and even some
atheists) I repeatedly hear the comment "so what" and "what does it
matter". I wonder though, how would they feel if they were required to
sign a statement saying they acknowledge that evolution is true?
Evolution is true. It addresses the physical development of the human being.
Creationism is true. It's addresses the spiritual development of the human being.
Evolution can be observed. Creation cannot be observed.
snip
Thomas P.
None of the Emperor's clothes had been so successful before.
"But he has got nothing on," said a little child.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Every U.S. Citizen required to acknowledge evolution is true? |
18 Jun 2004 04:45:19 PM |
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On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 06:28:55 +0200, Thomas P. <tonyofbexarremovethis@yahoo.dk> wrote:
Evolution is true. It addresses the physical development of the human being.
Creationism is true. It's addresses the spiritual development of the human being.
Evolution can be observed. Creation cannot be observed.
How much of evolution have you personally observed?
Now that's a subject that get's you atheists all balled up while us God believers laugh at
you.
You do understand that evolution is something that most if not all Christians believe.
Don't you?
Evolution vs creationism is an atheist discussion item.
duke
*****
I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear
it now. When he comes, the Holy Spirit will declare
to you the things that are coming. John 16:12-15.
*****
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| User: "Thomas P." |
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| Title: Re: Every U.S. Citizen required to acknowledge evolution is true? |
19 Jun 2004 02:09:13 AM |
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On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 16:45:19 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 06:28:55 +0200, Thomas P. <tonyofbexarremovethis@yahoo.dk> wrote:
Evolution is true. It addresses the physical development of the human being.
Creationism is true. It's addresses the spiritual development of the human being.
Evolution can be observed. Creation cannot be observed.
How much of evolution have you personally observed?
Quite a bit actually, we all have. When did you observe the act of
creation?
Now that's a subject that get's you atheists all balled up while us God believers laugh at
you.
What exactly do you think is funny little boobie?
You do understand that evolution is something that most if not all Christians believe.
Don't you?
Evolution vs creationism is an atheist discussion item.
That is a complete reversal of the truth. It has consistently been
theists who have declared evolution to be an attack on god. Many
atheists have tried to point out that evolution says nothing about
there being a creation or there not being a creation. Let's pretend
that you were just confused instead of a liar.
Thomas P.
None of the Emperor's clothes had been so successful before.
"But he has got nothing on," said a little child.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Every U.S. Citizen required to acknowledge evolution is true? |
19 Jun 2004 01:22:09 PM |
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On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 09:09:13 +0200, Thomas P. <tonyofbexarremovethis@yahoo.dk> wrote:
How much of evolution have you personally observed?
Quite a bit actually, we all have.
No, you've observed zero. You only see the current endpoint. Exactly the same % of
creationism you and I have seen.
Now that's a subject that get's you atheists all balled up while us God believers laugh at
you.
What exactly do you think is funny little boobie?
Atheists being the ones carrying the creationism vs evolution argument.
You do understand that evolution is something that most if not all Christians believe.
Don't you?
Evolution vs creationism is an atheist discussion item.
That is a complete reversal of the truth. It has consistently been
theists who have declared evolution to be an attack on god.
Uh, nooooooooo. I've never seen a believer in God carry on such a subject. Just
atheists.
Many
atheists have tried to point out that evolution says nothing about
there being a creation or there not being a creation. Let's pretend
that you were just confused instead of a liar.
Evolution is physical, creation is spiritual.
duke
*****
I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear
it now. When he comes, the Holy Spirit will declare
to you the things that are coming. John 16:12-15.
*****
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| User: "Thomas P." |
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| Title: Re: Every U.S. Citizen required to acknowledge evolution is true? |
20 Jun 2004 03:29:18 AM |
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On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 13:22:09 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 09:09:13 +0200, Thomas P. <tonyofbexarremovethis@yahoo.dk> wrote:
How much of evolution have you personally observed?
Quite a bit actually, we all have.
No, you've observed zero. You only see the current endpoint. Exactly the same % of
creationism you and I have seen.
No little boobie. I observe evolution every day of my life. I do not
just observe the "endpoint". I observer the process. I observe
people making use of the process. You have not, as you admit above,
observed a creation.
Now that's a subject that get's you atheists all balled up while us God believers laugh at
you.
What exactly do you think is funny little boobie?
Atheists being the ones carrying the creationism vs evolution argument.
That amazing lie of yours is not actually funny. It is merely
annoying. I know you hoped to achieve more than that, but you have to
work with the abilities you have.
You do understand that evolution is something that most if not all Christians believe.
Don't you?
Evolution vs creationism is an atheist discussion item.
That is a complete reversal of the truth. It has consistently been
theists who have declared evolution to be an attack on god.
Uh, nooooooooo. I've never seen a believer in God carry on such a subject. Just
atheists.
What a sad, pointless lie you tell boobie.
Many
atheists have tried to point out that evolution says nothing about
there being a creation or there not being a creation. Let's pretend
that you were just confused instead of a liar.
Evolution is physical, creation is spiritual.
Duke is reduced to chanting.
Thomas P.
None of the Emperor's clothes had been so successful before.
"But he has got nothing on," said a little child.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Every U.S. Citizen required to acknowledge evolution is true? |
20 Jun 2004 11:02:18 AM |
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On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 10:29:18 +0200, Thomas P. <tonyofbexarremovethis@yahoo.dk> wrote:
How much of evolution have you personally observed?
Quite a bit actually, we all have.
No, you've observed zero. You only see the current endpoint. Exactly the same % of
creationism you and I have seen.
No little boobie. I observe evolution every day of my life. I do not
just observe the "endpoint".
Evolution takes millions of years. You see nothing. You only see the current end point.
I observer the process. I observe
people making use of the process. You have not, as you admit above,
observed a creation.
You and I both have seen the exact same evolution and creation - zero.
Now that's a subject that get's you atheists all balled up while us God believers laugh at
you.
What exactly do you think is funny little boobie?
The "e vs c" argument. Strictly an atheist discussion item.
Atheists being the ones carrying the creationism vs evolution argument.
That amazing lie of yours is not actually funny. It is merely
annoying.
And it's very true. I've never seen us Christian hung up on that one, only you atheists.
I know you hoped to achieve more than that, but you have to
work with the abilities you have.
Yes, which places me at a much superior position to you.
You do understand that evolution is something that most if not all Christians believe.
Don't you?
Evolution vs creationism is an atheist discussion item.
That is a complete reversal of the truth. It has consistently been
theists who have declared evolution to be an attack on god.
Uh, nooooooooo. I've never seen a believer in God carry on such a subject. Just
atheists.
What a sad, pointless lie you tell boobie.
Sorry dude. Now I realize some of that takes place, but the only people I see that keeps
bringing it up are atheists.
Evolution is physical, creation is spiritual.
Duke is reduced to chanting.
And revealing truth to you and all atheists..
duke
*****
I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear
it now. When he comes, the Holy Spirit will declare
to you the things that are coming. John 16:12-15.
*****
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| User: "LP" |
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| Title: Re: Every U.S. Citizen required to acknowledge evolution is true? |
20 Jun 2004 01:56:33 PM |
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On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 11:02:18 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 10:29:18 +0200, Thomas P. <tonyofbexarremovethis@yahoo.dk> wrote:
How much of evolution have you personally observed?
Quite a bit actually, we all have.
No, you've observed zero. You only see the current endpoint. Exactly the same % of
creationism you and I have seen.
No little boobie. I observe evolution every day of my life. I do not
just observe the "endpoint".
Evolution takes millions of years. You see nothing. You only see the current end point.
I observer the process. I observe
people making use of the process. You have not, as you admit above,
observed a creation.
You and I both have seen the exact same evolution and creation - zero.
Now that's a subject that get's you atheists all balled up while us God believers laugh at
you.
What exactly do you think is funny little boobie?
The "e vs c" argument. Strictly an atheist discussion item.
Atheists being the ones carrying the creationism vs evolution argument.
That amazing lie of yours is not actually funny. It is merely
annoying.
And it's very true. I've never seen us Christian hung up on that one, only you atheists.
You aren't very observant, are you.
Here are a few of the many Christians who are hung up on stamping out
science as we know it: These are Web sites that approach the
creation/evolution controversy from a creationist or anti-evolution
perspective If anyone is "hung up" on the issue, it's these people.
"http://www.arn.org/" Access Research Network
"http://www.answersingenesis.org/" Answers in
Genesis (Probably the largest young-earth creationist site)
"http://www.trueorigin.org/camplist.asp" Ashby Camp's
List Of Articles (Large List of Online Creationist Articles)
"http://www.discovery.org/csc/" Center for Science and Culture
"http://www.discovery.org/" Discovery Institute
"http://members.aol.com/dwr51055/Creation.html#Internet%20Sites"
Creation Connection's Large List of Creationist Web Sites
"http://www.creationresearch.org/" Creation Research
Society
"http://www.creationresearch.org/crsq.html"
CRS Quarterly
"http://www.drdino.com/" Creation Science
Evangelism (Kent Hovind/"Dr." Dino)
"http://www.parentcompany.com/csrc/index.htm"
Creation-Science Research Center
"http://www.parentcompany.com/" The Parent Company and has several
online books)
"http://www.nwcreation.net/index.html" Creation Science Resource
"http://www.nwcreation.net/organlist.html" creationist organizations
"http://www.designinference.com/" rel=external>Design
Interference, The (William Dembski)
"http://www.creationscience.com/" rel=external><I>In the
Beginning (Walt Brown; Center for Scientific Creation)
"http://www.icr.org/" rel=external>Institute for Creation
Research, The "http://www.icr.org/pubs/
"(An archive of hundreds of their articles
"http://www.reasons.org/index.shtml" rel=external>Reasons to
Believe</A> (Old-earth creationist group lead by Hugh Ross)
"http://www.bible.ca/tracks/" rel=external>Scientific Evidence for
Creation
"http://www.bible.ca/" The Interactive Bible
"http://www.trueorigin.org/" True.Origin Archive,
http://www.creationism.org/ (Links to many young-earth
creationist groups)
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Every U.S. Citizen required to acknowledge evolution is true? |
20 Jun 2004 05:23:45 PM |
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On 20 Jun 2004 13:56:33 -0500, LP <whirl_pool@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
And it's very true. I've never seen us Christian hung up on that one, only you atheists.
You aren't very observant, are you.
Here are a few of the many Christians who are hung up on stamping out
science as we know it: These are Web sites that approach the
creation/evolution controversy from a creationist or anti-evolution
perspective If anyone is "hung up" on the issue, it's these people.
"http://www.arn.org/" Access Research Network
From your reference:
What is Intelligent Design?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Design theory—also called design or the design argument—is the view that nature shows
tangible signs of having been designed by a preexisting intelligence. It has been around,
in one form or another, since the time of ancient Greece.
The most famous version of the design argument can be found in the work of theologian
William Paley, who in 1802 proposed his "watchmaker" thesis. His reasoning went like this:
.....................
Called intelligent design (ID), to distinguish it from earlier versions of design theory
(as well as from the naturalistic use of the term design), this new approach is more
modest than its predecessors. Rather than trying to infer God’s existence or character
from the natural world, it simply claims "that intelligent causes are necessary to explain
the complex, information-rich structures of biology and that these causes are empirically
detectable." [3]
Sounds cool to me.
duke
*****
I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear
it now. When he comes, the Holy Spirit will declare
to you the things that are coming. John 16:12-15.
*****
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| User: "AngryJohn" |
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| Title: Re: Every U.S. Citizen required to acknowledge evolution is true? |
20 Jun 2004 10:46:29 PM |
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On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 17:23:45 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 20 Jun 2004 13:56:33 -0500, LP <whirl_pool@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
And it's very true. I've never seen us Christian hung up on that one, only you atheists.
You aren't very observant, are you.
Here are a few of the many Christians who are hung up on stamping out
science as we know it: These are Web sites that approach the
creation/evolution controversy from a creationist or anti-evolution
perspective If anyone is "hung up" on the issue, it's these people.
"http://www.arn.org/" Access Research Network
From your reference:
What is Intelligent Design?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Design theory—also called design or the design argument—is the view that nature shows
tangible signs of having been designed by a preexisting intelligence. It has been around,
in one form or another, since the time of ancient Greece.
The most famous version of the design argument can be found in the work of theologian
William Paley, who in 1802 proposed his "watchmaker" thesis. His reasoning went like this:
....................
Called intelligent design (ID), to distinguish it from earlier versions of design theory
(as well as from the naturalistic use of the term design), this new approach is more
modest than its predecessors. Rather than trying to infer God’s existence or character
from the natural world, it simply claims "that intelligent causes are necessary to explain
the complex, information-rich structures of biology and that these causes are empirically
detectable." [3]
Sounds cool to me.
duke
*****
I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear
it now. When he comes, the Holy Spirit will declare
to you the things that are coming. John 16:12-15.
*****
And dookie does not even realize how he has so totally conceded the
point.
Bwahahahahaha
------------------------------
aa#2106
Remove Belief to reply
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| User: "Thomas P." |
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| Title: Re: Every U.S. Citizen required to acknowledge evolution is true? |
21 Jun 2004 01:31:06 AM |
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On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 17:23:45 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 20 Jun 2004 13:56:33 -0500, LP <whirl_pool@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
And it's very true. I've never seen us Christian hung up on that one, only you atheists.
You aren't very observant, are you.
Here are a few of the many Christians who are hung up on stamping out
science as we know it: These are Web sites that approach the
creation/evolution controversy from a creationist or anti-evolution
perspective If anyone is "hung up" on the issue, it's these people.
"http://www.arn.org/" Access Research Network
From your reference:
What is Intelligent Design?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Design theory—also called design or the design argument—is the view that nature shows
tangible signs of having been designed by a preexisting intelligence. It has been around,
in one form or another, since the time of ancient Greece.
The most famous version of the design argument can be found in the work of theologian
William Paley, who in 1802 proposed his "watchmaker" thesis. His reasoning went like this:
....................
Called intelligent design (ID), to distinguish it from earlier versions of design theory
(as well as from the naturalistic use of the term design), this new approach is more
modest than its predecessors. Rather than trying to infer God’s existence or character
from the natural world, it simply claims "that intelligent causes are necessary to explain
the complex, information-rich structures of biology and that these causes are empirically
detectable." [3]
Sounds cool to me.
Duke admits he was lying.
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| User: "Thomas P." |
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| Title: Re: Every U.S. Citizen required to acknowledge evolution is true? |
21 Jun 2004 01:31:05 AM |
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On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 11:02:18 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 10:29:18 +0200, Thomas P. <tonyofbexarremovethis@yahoo.dk> wrote:
How much of evolution have you personally observed?
Quite a bit actually, we all have.
No, you've observed zero. You only see the current endpoint. Exactly the same % of
creationism you and I have seen.
No little boobie. I observe evolution every day of my life. I do not
just observe the "endpoint".
Evolution takes millions of years. You see nothing. You only see the current end point.
Poor boobie Earl - so ignorant.
I observer the process. I observe
people making use of the process. You have not, as you admit above,
observed a creation.
You and I both have seen the exact same evolution and creation - zero.
Chuckle!
snip of remaining Duke babble
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| User: "Kermit" |
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| Title: Re: Every U.S. Citizen required to acknowledge evolution is true? |
21 Jun 2004 01:00:43 AM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<lvcbd0t5pah3nvod3fi0360a6n5qmp685c@4ax.com>...
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 10:29:18 +0200, Thomas P. <tonyofbexarremovethis@yahoo.dk> wrote:
How much of evolution have you personally observed?
Quite a bit actually, we all have.
No, you've observed zero. You only see the current endpoint. Exactly the same % of
creationism you and I have seen.
No little boobie. I observe evolution every day of my life. I do not
just observe the "endpoint".
Evolution takes millions of years. You see nothing. You only see the current end point.
Silly boy. Try reading a popular science book on evolution, rather
than Jack Chick comics. Evolution only needs selective pressure
favoring some characteristics over others to be happening. In humans
it might take a while to notice, but in critters with shorter
generations, it can be seen very quickly.
I have seen VD, staph and TB developing a serious resistence to
antibiotics in my lifetime. I have seen mosquitos develop resistence
to DDT. I have seen dandelions selected for short stems when I move
into a house and start mowing regularly. I hear that rattlesnakes are
growing fewer rattles, and later, becaue so many people are killing
them on sight - this has happened only in the last 150 years.
I observer the process. I observe
people making use of the process. You have not, as you admit above,
observed a creation.
You and I both have seen the exact same evolution and creation - zero.
There has been no creation in the experience of living humans. And it
has left no evidence, if it happened.
Evolution can not only be seen to happen (see above), but longer term
and more extensive evolution has left much evidence, which can be seen
by anybody.
Now that's a subject that get's you atheists all balled up while us God believers laugh at
you.
What exactly do you think is funny little boobie?
The "e vs c" argument. Strictly an atheist discussion item.
Atheists being the ones carrying the creationism vs evolution argument.
That amazing lie of yours is not actually funny. It is merely
annoying.
And it's very true. I've never seen us Christian hung up on that one, only you atheists.
Then you have visited these sites with your eyes closed, a suspicion
I've long held. talk.origins is constantly explaining to creationist
visitors that there is no conflict between science and theism in
general. Most Christian denominations have no problem with astronomy,
evolutionary science, geology, etc. Only young Earth Creationists and
a few other literalist religions have problems with it.
I know you hoped to achieve more than that, but you have to
work with the abilities you have.
Yes, which places me at a much superior position to you.
You do understand that evolution is something that most if not all Christians believe.
Don't you?
Evolution vs creationism is an atheist discussion item.
That is a complete reversal of the truth. It has consistently been
theists who have declared evolution to be an attack on god.
Uh, nooooooooo. I've never seen a believer in God carry on such a subject. Just
atheists.
What a sad, pointless lie you tell boobie.
Sorry dude. Now I realize some of that takes place, but the only people I see that keeps
bringing it up are atheists.
Try going to the science news groups, and not alt.atheism.
Who would bring up *anything here, except atheists, and the
proselytizers who confront us?
Hell, it's atheists who bring up their cats on this newsgroup.
I suppose I could go to the Baptist news groups, then complain that
"only the Baptists bring up politics"...
Evolution is physical, creation is spiritual.
Duke is reduced to chanting.
And revealing truth to you and all atheists..
An air of certainy does not actually increase the chances of your
being right, you know.
duke
*****
I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear
it now. When he comes, the Holy Spirit will declare
to you the things that are coming. John 16:12-15.
*****
Kermit
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| User: "Eric Pepke" |
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| Title: Re: Every U.S. Citizen required to acknowledge evolution is true? |
18 Jun 2004 08:31:00 AM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<ob84d0949c4rhvdgvp37uju48nlsrl7nqk@4ax.com>...
On 15 Jun 2004 17:49:17 -0500, LP <whirl_pool@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
When discussing the "Under God" case with Christians (and even some
atheists) I repeatedly hear the comment "so what" and "what does it
matter". I wonder though, how would they feel if they were required to
sign a statement saying they acknowledge that evolution is true?
Evolution is true. It addresses the physical development of the human being.
Creationism is true. It's addresses the spiritual development of the human being.
Well, at least this is better than most of the stuff that we get here. Yes, it is
entirely possible to be a theist and accept evolution.
Now go tell it to the people who ignorantly and stupidly seek to make this an
issue.
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: Every U.S. Citizen required to acknowledge evolution is true? |
18 Jun 2004 12:55:15 PM |
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"Eric Pepke" <epepke@acm.org> wrote in message
news:ef37f531.0406180531.6e7a5ccc@posting.google.com...
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:<ob84d0949c4rhvdgvp37uju48nlsrl7nqk@4ax.com>...
On 15 Jun 2004 17:49:17 -0500, LP <whirl_pool@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
When discussing the "Under God" case with Christians (and even some
atheists) I repeatedly hear the comment "so what" and "what does it
matter". I wonder though, how would they feel if they were required to
sign a statement saying they acknowledge that evolution is true?
Evolution is true. It addresses the physical development of the human
being.
Creationism is true. It's addresses the spiritual development of the
human being.
Well, at least this is better than most of the stuff that we get here.
Yes, it is
entirely possible to be a theist and accept evolution.
I'm actually surprised. While still short of the mark, I think it's the
closest I've ever seen Duke come to making sense. :-)
Now go tell it to the people who ignorantly and stupidly seek to make this
an
issue.
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