Evidence of "Macroevolution" - Examples 636 - 666

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"Budikka666"
Date:	08 Dec 2005 06:53:23 AM
Object:	Evidence of "Macroevolution" - Examples 636 - 666

(Note: item #590 referenced the archaeopteryx. recently an
extraordinarily well-preserved specimen has been found which does
indeed confirm its status as a transition, and stronger evidence of
macroevolution:
http://sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/sci;310/5753/1483)
And now back to our regular programming.
636.
Grasshoppers!
Chorthippus brunnaeus and C. biguttulus are all but indistinguishable
according to Richard Dawkins in "The Ancestor's Tale" (page 397). But
they do not interbreed in the wild and so are different species.
However, they are so recently (in geologic terms) separated that they
can interbreed. They're induced to do so by the temperature of their
head, as determined from the rate or frequency of their chirping. If
the female is artificially warmed or cooled to the temperature of the
other species, she will breed with it. Speciation is macroevolution.
637.
Hausdorf, B. 2001. Macroevolution in progress: competition between
semislugs and slugs resulting in ecological displacement and ecological
release. Biological Journal of the Linnean Society 74:387-398.
638.
And now a brief word to those intelligent design advocates who blather
ill-informed nonsense about junk DNA: yes, there really is junk DNA.
While some of that monumental wasteland that is not genes is indeed of
value, there's indisputable proof that massive tracts of it is junk.
http://tinyurl.com/9b5hr
"In contrast to parasitic bacteria and archaea with small genomes, P.
ubique has complete biosynthetic pathways for all 20 amino acids and
all but a few cofactors. P. ubique has no pseudogenes, introns,
transposons, extrachromosomal elements, or inteins; few paralogs; and
the shortest intergenic spacers yet observed for any cell."
The only explanation for Junk DNA is macroevolution. Or an idiot
designer.
Which is it?
639.
Bacterial evolution:
http://www.gate.net/~rwms/EvoMutations.html
640.
http://aetiology.blogspot.com/2005/11/of-dragons-and-microbes.html
"...using new DNA sequence data, Dr Fry and his colleagues found nine
venom toxin types that were shared between lizards and snakes. Seven of
these were previously only known from snake venoms, including one that
had only previously been reported in rattlesnake venom but was
sequenced by the team from the Bearded Dragon."
641.
"The fore-limb first appears in the 11.4 mm fetus, and the hind-limb in
the 15.3 mm fetus. The fore-limb develops progressively during
gestation, while the hind-limb disappears by the 38.9 mm fetus."
http://tinyurl.com/aguqj
"The Cetacea are group of animals which have completely lost their hind
limbs during the course of evolution as a result of their entirely
aquatic mode of life. It is known, however, that during their embryonal
period, the hind limb buds are temporarily present. The control
mechanisms of this regression are not yet understood, and vestigial
limbs can sometimes be found in adults. The aim of the present study is
to describe the course of hind limb rudimentation during prenatal
development of Stenella attenuata (Spotted dolphin) at tissue and cell
levels and compare the results with other natural or experimentally
induced amelias. Hind limb buds of dolphin embryos, CRL 10-30 mm, were
examined histologically. Before total disappearance, they show
histodifferentiation comparable with other mammals."
http://tinyurl.com/ctbhw
Just like the human embryo's tail disappears: "The development and
disappearance of the human tail between stages 14 and 22 were studied
using scanning and transmission electron microscopy, supravital
staining and light microscopy. The tail is a prominent feature of the
human embryo during stage 14 and is composed of paired somites,
mesenchyme and extensions of the neural tube, notochord and gut. The
tail grows with the embryo through early stage 17 when it extends more
than a millimeter from the trunk. Overgrowth by the trunk at the base
of the tail may account for the loss of part of its length during late
stage 17 and stage 18. However, during stage 17 cells begin to die in
all structures throughout the tail. Cell death continues in the
succeeding stages reaching massive numbers by stages 18 and 19, and the
tail becomes less and less prominent with developmental time."
http://tinyurl.com/9anut
642.
An example of a beneficial frame-shift mutation:
http://www.nmsr.org/nylon.htm
643.
"...amphibians in general may comprise two classes of olfactory
receptors. Whereas teleost fish, including the goldfish Carassius
auratus, possess only class I receptors, the 'living fossil' Latimeria
chalumnae is endowed with both receptor classes; interestingly, most of
the class II genes turned out to be pseudogenes."
http://tinyurl.com/83jw7
644.
"...mammals generally have about 1000 genes for odor receptors. Of
these genes, only a portion code for functional odor receptors. Humans
have 347 functional odor receptor genes; the other genes have nonsense
mutations."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olfactory
645.
http://tinyurl.com/agnwk
"A comparison was made with the black pigmented subspecies Proteus
anguinus parkelj (black proteus), which has a normal eye structure. In
the retina of the black proteus, we found principal rods, red-sensitive
cones and a third photoreceptor type, which might represent a blue- or
UV-sensitive cone. Photoreceptors in the regressed eye of the blind
cave salamanders from the Planina cave contained degenerate outer
segments, consisting of a few whorled discs and irregular clumps of
membranes....An even more pronounced degeneration was observed in the
photoreceptors of the animals derived from the Otovec doline, which are
completely devoid of an outer segment, most of them not even possessing
an inner segment. Even in some of these highly degenerate cells, the
presence of rhodopsin could be detected in the plasma membrane...."
646.
http://pharyngula.org/index/weblog/comments/mysterious_trichoplax/#continue
Trichoplax - an intermediate form. Or is it a representative of the
first few steps towards life? What is its purpose? Where is the
design here? Only IDiot creationists have to ask that question.
Evolutionists already have it covered.
647.
http://www.carlzimmer.com/articles/2004/articles_2004_haussler.html
"When Bats and Humans Were One and the Same"
648.
Hemaglobin:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/10/991005071327.htm
649.
The Lancelet Amphioxus is mentioned by Richard Dawkins in "The
Ancestor's Tale", and more can be read about its direct relationship
with us here:
http://www.carlzimmer.com/articles/2000/articles_2000_vertebrate.html
650.
Creationists often claim that the near perfect parallel between the
human and chimpanzee genomes is accounted for by the fact that we
perform similar functions, although if you ask them to specify these
functions, they quickly run away. However, if this is true, how is it
that, as Richard Dawkins specifices on page 553 of "The Ancestor's
Tale" that "Chemically, we are more similar to some bacteria than some
bacteria are to other bacteria."?
Clearly macroevolution *had* to have occurred in order for there to be
such massive differences at the cellular level. Otherwise why would a
god have made such differences if all these cells "perform similar
functions"?
651.
Another "missing link" between apes, humans and monkeys has been found:
http://www.discover.com/web-exclusives/missing-links-found/
652.
http://tinyurl.com/7gzuu
reveals that if evolution were nonsense, recent advances in tracing
obestatin would not have been achievable with such relative ease:
"Hsueh explained that before he and his colleagues started the project,
they used the genome projects' information to create a database of
GPCRs that grouped them according to their evolutionary
relatedness....Hsueh and colleagues narrowed the search by focusing on
sequences that have been conserved during hundreds of millions of years
of evolution - in organisms as diverse as fish and humans - because
these are likely to be of greatest biological importance."
653.
Butterflies:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4708459.stm
654.
The evolutionary history of Sleeping Sickness:
http://www.carlzimmer.com/articles/2001/articles_2001_Phylogeny.html
http://www.carlzimmer.com/articles/1998/Sleeping1998.html
655.
"Exploring receptor genes in aquatic mammals led to the discovery of a
large array of only class II receptor genes in the dolphin Stenella
Coeruleoalba; however, all of these genes were found to be
non-functional pseudogenes."
http://tinyurl.com/83jw7
656.
Simple prelude to speciation (macroevolution):
http://tinyurl.com/8tylz
657.
http://www.carlzimmer.com/articles/2004/articles_2004_Before_DNA.html
RNA life forms
658.
Darwin's finches:
http://www.rit.edu/~rhrsbi/GalapagosPages/DarwinFinch.html
659.
Evolution of the cichlid mandible:
http://pharyngula.org/index/weblog/comments/evolution_of_the_cichlid_mandible/#cont
660.
Barnacles!
Darwin spent a huge portion of his later years investigating barnacles.
The reason is that they are wonderful exemplars of macroevolution. I
defy any IDiot creationist to claim that barnacles are all the same
"kind" and then pretend that macroevolution does not occur.
Barnacles look like limpets, but they're crustaceans. There is a
family of barnacles which are parasites. They're called sacculina and
they parasitize crabs. They have no shell or bodily segmentacean and
they begin their relationship with their crabby host by castrating it.
This serves, presumably, to focus the crab on feeding (thereby
benefitting sacculina) rather than on breeding and dying, which is the
sole purpose of pretty much every living thing.
You can read about this in Richard Dawkins's "The Ancestor's tale" on
page 433.
661.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9936993/site/newsweek/page/2/
Newsweek: "How could you tell that SARS came originally from bats and
not from civets, in which the virus was previously identified?"
Mary Pearl, president of the Wildlife Trust: "When we sampled a variety
of bats, there were different versions of the virus in them. It had
been in them long enough to evolve into different forms. That wasn't
true of civets. Also, civets in the market carried the virus, but
farmed and wild civets did not. It all added up. The civet was just
another victim of the SARS virus. It picked it up in the marketplace
from the bats."
Newsweek: "What led you to suspect the horseshoe bat in the first
place?"
Mary Pearl, president of the Wildlife Trust "Jonathan Epstein, our
field scientist on the case, was looking at bat populations because of
Nipah virus - a deadly virus that emerged in humans in Malaysia in
1999. Nipah virus is harmless in fruit bats, but in people it causes a
high fever, brain inflammation, seizures and death. It emerged in pig
farms in formerly forested areas when it passed from bats to pigs and
then to farmers. The Malaysian government moved quickly to shut down
those pig farms and put an end to the spread of the disease in
Malaysia. Subsequently there have been outbreaks in Bangladesh, so it
will be important to continue monitoring fruit bats for this virus
wherever the bats are found."
662.
Heart evolution:
http://www.carlzimmer.com/articles/2000/articles_2000_hearts.html
663.
Fossil evidence for macroevolution:
http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/cool_stuff/tour_evolution_3.html
664.
Recent genetic sequencing of the genome of the protozoan Trypanosoma
cruzi, which causes Chaga's disease, reveals macroevolution:
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/309/5733/409
The genome literally doubled in size. This wasn't new information
since it was merely a repeat of the original genome, but it meant that,
since every gene was now duplicated, the "spare" genes were free to
mutate into other genes, increasing the information content of the
genome without the organism suffering in any way at all.
T. cruzi can also increase the information content of the genome of the
organisms it affects:
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/extract/292/7/794-b
The fact of the massive duplication of genetic material (talk about
junk DNA!) made T. cruzi particularly difficult to sequence. The
standard speed methods of sequencing (called "shotgun" and
"gene-walking") wouldn't work, so the whole genome had to be addressed
in toto.
665.
Detractors of evolution often conflate it with abiogenesis - the origin
of life, and claim dead chemicals cannot become alive, but they can
sure act that way:
http://pubs.acs.org/cen/news/83/i40/8340walk.html
"Scientists have designed a molecule that walks across a surface in a
straight line, putting one bond in front of the other. Such purposeful
control of a molecule's motion is vital for advancing fields such as
molecular self-assembly, molecular machines, and computing."
Since science has shown that such a thing can exist, detractors can no
longer claim that the precursors of life were "dead" chemicals".
http://home.houston.rr.com/apologia/orgel.htm
http://informationcentre.tripod.com/abiogenesis.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/abioprob/default.htm
Proto cells:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/239787.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1142840.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4104483.stm
http://tinyurl.com/8fv5a
Stanley Miller and Harold Urey produced amino acids, the building
blocks of life, back in 1953:
http://www.chem.duke.edu/~jds/cruise_chem/Exobiology/miller.html
Other experiments have produced similar results using a variety of
simulated early Earth environments:
http://www.ncseweb.org/icons/icon1millerurey.html
These same chemicals are found naturally in space, and doubtlessly
bathe whatever planets speed through them. 92 of them have come to
Earth on a single meteorite:
http://www.meteorlab.com/METEORLAB2001dev/murchy.htm
An introduction to evolution:
http://anthro.palomar.edu/synthetic/default.htm
Cells hint at life's origin:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1142840.stm
Cradle of life?:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/239787.stm
Abiogenesis:
http://informationcentre.tripod.com/abiogenesis.html
Origin of life on Earth:
http://home.houston.rr.com/apologia/orgel.htm
Factories of life:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/275738.stm
Lab molecules mimic life:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/217054.stm
Mechanism for evolution described:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/222096.stm
Early animal evolution:
http://cas.bellarmine.edu/tietjen/Ecology/early_animal_evolution.htm
Smallest genome a lot smaller than smallest modern cell:
http://mednews.stanford.edu/news_releases_html/2001/febreleases/bioet...
Precambrian to cambrian:
http://www.asa3.org/ASA/topics/evolution/PSCF12-97Miller.html
Early diversification:
http://cas.bellarmine.edu/tietjen/Ecology/early_animal_evolution.htm
Transitional forms:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html
Primitive fish different:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/504776.stm
Fish with fingers:
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/fishfossil0312.html
Snake with legs:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/680116.stm
Ant-wasp evolution:
http://research.amnh.org/entomology/social_insects/publications/ms_sp...
Mosquitoes still evolving:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/158522.stm
Origins of flight:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2664541.stm
4-winged dinos:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2684927.stm
Dog evolution:
http://www.provet.co.uk/online/dogs/evolution%20of%20the%20dog.htm
Human evolution:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/
Computer simulated evolution:
http://necsi.org/postdocs/sayama/sdsr/
Evolution vs. creationism debates:
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/science/creationism/debates.html
Evolution not "atheist religion":
http://www.catholic.net/RCC/Periodicals/Inside/01-97/creat2.html
29 Evidences supporting evolution:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/
The evolution of the eye:
http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~lindsay/creation/eye.html
The woodpecker's tongue:
http://omega.med.yale.edu/~rjr38/Woodpecker.htm
Radiometric dating - a Christian perpective:
http://www.asa3.org/ASA/resources/Wiens.html#page
Noah's ark never happened:
http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/noahs_ark.html
Ex-creationist on why young Earth creationism doesn't work:
http://www.glenn.morton.btinternet.co.uk/
Another ex-creationist:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/7755/
Creationists cannot define "kind":
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/2437/kinds.htm
Even evolutionists believe in God!:
http://www.exn.ca/Stories/1997/04/04/01.asp
General anti-creationism/pro-evolution FAQs:
http://www.millerandlevine.com/km/evol/index.html
http://www.rice.edu/armadillo/Sciacademy/riggins/newindex.htm
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-meritt/complexity.html
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/dave_matson/young-earth/specif...
http://www.nobeliefs.com/Creationism.htm
http://vuletic.com/hume/cefec/index.html
Questionable creationist credentials:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/credentials.html
Even dyed-in-the-wool creationists think a lot of their arguments are
bad:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/dont_use.asp
Only 600 genes separate mice from men:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2536501.stm
Whale evolution:
http://darla.neoucom.edu/DEPTS/ANAT/Pakicetidnew.html
How could an eye evolve?
http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~lindsay/creation/eye.html
Are mutations harmful?
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/mutations.html
Early human evolution:
http://anthro.palomar.edu/homo/default.htm
Same errors in human and chimp DNA:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/molgen/
Humans and chimps not so different:
http://www.mindfully.org/GE/GE4/Humans-Over-Primates-NOT12apr02.htm
The evidence for human evolution:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/
Fossil bridges land and sea:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/701008.stm
Feathery fossil shed light on origins:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1058475.stm
Archaeopteryx:
http://www.ummz.lsa.umich.edu/birds/birddivresources/evolhist.html
wings for speed:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/336192.stm
Bones make feathers fly
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/879956.stm
Changing one gene launches new fly species:
http://www2.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2003-12/uocm-cog120403.php
Transitional vertebrate fossils:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html
Transition to mammals:
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/2437/therapsd.htm
The fossil record:
http://www.nogs.org/cuffeyart.html
Transition to land:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/link/dyk.html
origin of feathers:
http://www.cmnh.org/dinoarch/1997Dec/msg00031.html
Sickle-clawed bird:
http://www.dinosauria.com/jdp/archie/sickle.htm
Different species with the same junk DNA:
http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~lindsay/creation/dna_virus.html
Evidences for Evolution:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-research.html
jury-rigged "design":
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/jury-rigged.html
666.
Tom Ray and Tierra
The book "Virtual Organisms" by Mark Ward discusses artificial life.
Can "digital organisms" macroevolve? The answer is a resounding
"Yes!".
In January 1990, Tom Ray populated an enclosed computer memory space
(which he called "Tierra") with virtual organisms and started it
running. They were 80 bytes long. They were given the ability to
reproduce and they also died off. Soon an organism 79 bytes long
appeared, and because it could reproduce faster, it was naturally
selected and it began to take over Tierra. Ray expected something like
this to happen if the simulation was indeed modelling aspects of
evolution.
Then something totally unexpected happened. An organism 45 bytes long
appeared. Ray couldn't understand what had happened at first. 45
bytes seemed too small to survive. On deeper investigation, it turned
out that the new organism was a parasite. It used the larger organisms
to reproduce itself without having to carry those instructions itself.
Macroevolution had produced a strong competitor. Soon, the larger
organisms had evolved to hide their reproductive instructions so that
they could not be parasitized, but parasites evolved to overcome this
immunity.
In short, Tierra was behaving exactly as The Theory of Evolution
predicts it should.
Other simulations, such as Avida:
http://www.carlzimmer.com/articles/2005/articles_2005_Avida.html
and other digital life such as Amoeba, Cosmos and Nidus are
demonstrating aspects of evolution too. None of these simulations is
intended to be a exact duplicate of evolutionary conditions. For that,
you would neeed an entire planet for your simulation, but what they do
show is that macroevolution is a fact of life, even artificial life.
This concludes my set of references to examples of macroevolution or
evidence supporting such, and with that, creationism and its supporters
are refuted utterly.
Budikka
.

User: "Ananias917"
Title: Re: Evidence of "Macroevolution" - Examples 636 - 666	08 Dec 2005 07:32:02 AM

On 8 Dec 2005 04:53:23 -0800, "Budikka666"
<budikka1@netscape.net> spake thusly:

As usual, this idiot tries to past in a ton of supposed
"evidence". He wants to spend five minutes with
copy and paste and then falsely ridicule anyone
who doesn't spend days responding to each and
every one of them. So I selected the first one
in the list and then I will kill file him again,
knowing that he is dishonest and failed the test
already. Now he tries to find as much as he can,
specifically because of how foolish I made him
look, which only shows that he knows that he
didn't know what he was talking about then
and he still doesn't. He has however, learned
how to copy and paste claims. If asked to go
into detail about them, in his own words, of course,
he will not be able to. <chuckle>
�Paleontologists have tried to turn Archaeopteryx into
an earth-bound, feathered dinosaur. But it�s not. It is
a bird, a perching bird. And no amount of 'paleobabble'
is going to change that.� - Alan Feduccia
Also see...
http://research.unc.edu/endeavors/spr97/bird.html
--
"And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house;
and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the
Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way
as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest
receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost."
- Acts 9:17
.

User: "I KILLED YOUR GOD-IT WAS EASY!"
Title: Re: Evidence of "Macroevolution" - Examples 636 - 666	08 Dec 2005 09:04:41 AM

"Ananias917" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:h2dgp1h2eu0942n1okasannncv3bh9888l@4ax.com...

On 8 Dec 2005 04:53:23 -0800, "Budikka666"
<budikka1@netscape.net> spake thusly:

As usual, this idiot tries to past in a ton of supposed
"evidence". He wants to spend five minutes with
copy and paste and then falsely ridicule anyone
who doesn't spend days responding to each and
every one of them. So I selected the first one
in the list and then I will kill file him again,
knowing that he is dishonest and failed the test
already. Now he tries to find as much as he can,
specifically because of how foolish I made him
look, which only shows that he knows that he
didn't know what he was talking about then
and he still doesn't. He has however, learned
how to copy and paste claims. If asked to go
into detail about them, in his own words, of course,
he will not be able to. <chuckle>

"Paleontologists have tried to turn Archaeopteryx into
an earth-bound, feathered dinosaur. But it's not. It is
a bird, a perching bird. And no amount of 'paleobabble'
is going to change that." - Alan Feduccia

Also see...

http://research.unc.edu/endeavors/spr97/bird.html

--

"And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house;
and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the
Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way
as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest
receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost."
- Acts 9:17

we do not listen to idiot theist here.
especielly those that cut and paste meaningless buybull drivel.
--
I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented
myself from Christian assemblies.�
-- Benjamin Franklin
AA #2241.
.

User: "oldwetdog"
Title: Re: Evidence of "Macroevolution" - Examples 636 - 666	08 Dec 2005 08:41:16 PM

Ananias917 wrote:

On 8 Dec 2005 04:53:23 -0800, "Budikka666"
<budikka1@netscape.net> spake thusly:

As usual, this idiot tries to past in a ton of supposed
"evidence". He wants to spend five minutes with
copy and paste and then falsely ridicule anyone
who doesn't spend days responding to each and
every one of them. So I selected the first one
in the list and then I will kill file him again,
knowing that he is dishonest and failed the test
already. Now he tries to find as much as he can,
specifically because of how foolish I made him
look, which only shows that he knows that he
didn't know what he was talking about then
and he still doesn't. He has however, learned
how to copy and paste claims. If asked to go
into detail about them, in his own words, of course,
he will not be able to. <chuckle>

�Paleontologists have tried to turn Archaeopteryx into
an earth-bound, feathered dinosaur. But it�s not. It is
a bird, a perching bird. And no amount of 'paleobabble'
is going to change that.� - Alan Feduccia

Also see...

http://research.unc.edu/endeavors/spr97/bird.html

Lies and False Accusations by Pastor Dave, (aka Ananias917)
(See post "Pastor Dave is Invisable to me" alt.christnet.christianlife,
11/19/05)
Brandon said: "I have lost count on how many posts you have called
people names, and cused even. You return insult for insult, and rudness
for rudness, how can you stand on your soap box and say you have a
shepards heart for the flock. You do not answer questions when asked,
and avoid any evidence when presented it. Your a mean person that does
dishoner to God's good name by calling yourself a Pastor.
I pray for you,
Brandon
Pastor Dave said, "Find me telling one lie." (11/26)
a) On more than one occasion Dave accused owd, "Now you go ahead and
keep pasting links to the daily news.."
Dave, please post a link to any post or statement of where I (owd) "keep
pasting links to the daily news..."
If you cannot or will not, then you are proven to be a liar and false
accusar.
b) Dave posted, "The simple fact is, that what you bombard us with, is
day after day of news reports, with claims that they're in the Bible.
Dave, please post a those links where I (owd) have "bombard you with, is
day after day of news reports, with claims that they're in the Bible."
If you cannot or will not, then you are proven to be a liar and false
accusar.
c) Dave posted, "Btw, have you written a letter of apology to Saddam
Hussein yet? Have you taken the time to apologize to him, for calling
him, "The AntiChrist"?
Dave, please post the link to where I (owd) stated, said, or calling
him, "The AntiChrist"?
If you cannot or will not, then you are proven to be a liar and false
accusar.
d) Hey, thanks for being a "good Christian" and continuing this thread...
Dave, this is another false accusation-- because, YOU POSTED into this
thread _19 TIMES_ to my (owd) SIX (6) posts. There are about eight
people who posted to this thread, and you OUT POSTED them all! YOU ARE
THE ONE WHO KEPT THE THREAD GOING!
Proving (again) that you are a false accuser.
e) Dave accused, "You practice newspaper prophecy, trying to wrap your
Bible around the daily news. Everything that happens in the news,
suddenly becomes, "Bible prophecy being fulfilled before our eyes".
Dave, please post links to any post or statement where I claim
"Everything that happens in the news, suddenly becomes, "Bible prophecy
being fulfilled before our eyes".
If you cannot or will not, then you are proven to be a liar and false
accusar.
(See Post "Knowing When" by oldwetdog, alt.christnet.christainlife 11/26/05)
f) Dave said: "Thank you for proving that you cannot deal with my words.
Yet, of course, you claim to be refuting my supposedly, "false
doctrine"." First, note that "Pastor Dave" refused to respond to the
content or subject of the post.
Second, "Pastor Dave" accused 'futurists' of "saying no one can know
when, then claiming it will be in this generation."
The post (which Dave posted into *FOUR* times) was an explanation of the
lie that no one can know when. This post explained that there is a
difference between knowing the Day and Hour, and recognizing the
generation. Dave "top posted" (the act of a Troll) his false
accusations, but refused to consider the subject of the post.
(See "A Time for Everything" by oldwetdog alt.christnet.christianlife
11/28/05)
g) Dave: "Well, you said it's all about YOU and YOUR time and that YOU
have the answers, didn't YOU?"
Dave, please post the link where I (owd) said, "it's all about YOU (me)
and YOUR (my) time and that YOU (I) have the answers, didn't YOU (I)?"
If you cannot or will not, then you are proven to be a liar and false
accusar.
(See "Some Serious Questions" by oldwetdog, alt.christnet.christianlife
12/6/05)
h) Dave, you accused: "That's what YOU say. You claim to know that we
are the generation that will see Jesus return and a lot of other things,
like Europe is in the Bible and so are nuclear weapons AND you claim
these things ARE FACT and also that you do NOT INTERPRET.
Dave, please post a link to the post or statement where I said that I
"do NOT INTERPRET."
If you cannot or will not or do not then you are a false accuser.
Now let us hear the conclusion of the matter:
Pastor Dave (aka Ananias917) is a liar and false accuser.
owd
.

User: "Ananias917"
Title: * GLENN (OWD) ATTACKS FOR REFUTING EVOLUTIONISTS *	09 Dec 2005 03:04:23 PM

On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 18:41:16 -0800, oldwetdog
<oldwetdog@hotmail.com> spake thusly:

Ananias917 wrote:

On 8 Dec 2005 04:53:23 -0800, "Budikka666"
<budikka1@netscape.net> spake thusly:

As usual, this idiot tries to past in a ton of supposed
"evidence". He wants to spend five minutes with
copy and paste and then falsely ridicule anyone
who doesn't spend days responding to each and
every one of them. So I selected the first one
in the list and then I will kill file him again,
knowing that he is dishonest and failed the test
already. Now he tries to find as much as he can,
specifically because of how foolish I made him
look, which only shows that he knows that he
didn't know what he was talking about then
and he still doesn't. He has however, learned
how to copy and paste claims. If asked to go
into detail about them, in his own words, of course,
he will not be able to. <chuckle>

�Paleontologists have tried to turn Archaeopteryx into
an earth-bound, feathered dinosaur. But it�s not. It is
a bird, a perching bird. And no amount of 'paleobabble'
is going to change that.� - Alan Feduccia

Also see...

http://research.unc.edu/endeavors/spr97/bird.html

Let it be noted that you are so desperate to attack me,
that you do it in response to a message in which I
refuted the claim by an evolutionists.
Whenever Glen starts posting the same exact message
in multiple threads like this about me folks, it's a
good signal that he's upset that he just finished
getting his ***** kicked by me. :)
You start multiple threads about me, accusing me of
multiple things and when I respond to them, you run
away and won't deal with it. Then you claim that I'm
the one attacking you, when this is the fifth or sixth
thread today alone that you have started for the
purpose of attacking me and you don't even tell it
like it is.
Does anyone else see the hypocrisy in this? :) You
also seem to think that copying and pasting someone
else's accusation against me, is proof. That's like
the evolutionists saying that evolution is true,
because other evolutionists say so! <chuckle>

Lies and False Accusations by Pastor Dave, (aka Ananias917)

Oh look, the guy who doesn't have the courage to deal
with me head on so he....

(See post "Pastor Dave is Invisable to me" alt.christnet.christianlife,
11/19/05)

....starts threads about me and then wants to point his
finger at me, claiming that I am attacking him.
And here, you have posted the same attack
MULTIPLE TIMES! Why is that? Because
of that "good Christian love" you display?
You criticize me and then do this?
Does the word, "hypocrite" ring a bell with you?
As for what you pasted in below, do you have the
courage to deal with them point by point, to see
if you're telling the whole truth here? Or will you
perform another hit & run like you usually do,
refusing to be corrected about your claims?

Brandon said: "I have lost count on how many posts you have called
people names, and cused even. You return insult for insult, and rudness
for rudness, how can you stand on your soap box and say you have a
shepards heart for the flock. You do not answer questions when asked,
and avoid any evidence when presented it. Your a mean person that does
dishoner to God's good name by calling yourself a Pastor.
I pray for you,
Brandon

Pastor Dave said, "Find me telling one lie." (11/26)

a) On more than one occasion Dave accused owd, "Now you go ahead and
keep pasting links to the daily news.."
Dave, please post a link to any post or statement of where I (owd) "keep
pasting links to the daily news..."
If you cannot or will not, then you are proven to be a liar and false
accusar.

b) Dave posted, "The simple fact is, that what you bombard us with, is
day after day of news reports, with claims that they're in the Bible.
Dave, please post a those links where I (owd) have "bombard you with, is
day after day of news reports, with claims that they're in the Bible."
If you cannot or will not, then you are proven to be a liar and false
accusar.

c) Dave posted, "Btw, have you written a letter of apology to Saddam
Hussein yet? Have you taken the time to apologize to him, for calling
him, "The AntiChrist"?
Dave, please post the link to where I (owd) stated, said, or calling
him, "The AntiChrist"?
If you cannot or will not, then you are proven to be a liar and false
accusar.

d) Hey, thanks for being a "good Christian" and continuing this thread...
Dave, this is another false accusation-- because, YOU POSTED into this
thread _19 TIMES_ to my (owd) SIX (6) posts. There are about eight
people who posted to this thread, and you OUT POSTED them all! YOU ARE
THE ONE WHO KEPT THE THREAD GOING!
Proving (again) that you are a false accuser.

e) Dave accused, "You practice newspaper prophecy, trying to wrap your
Bible around the daily news. Everything that happens in the news,
suddenly becomes, "Bible prophecy being fulfilled before our eyes".
Dave, please post links to any post or statement where I claim
"Everything that happens in the news, suddenly becomes, "Bible prophecy
being fulfilled before our eyes".
If you cannot or will not, then you are proven to be a liar and false
accusar.

(See Post "Knowing When" by oldwetdog, alt.christnet.christainlife 11/26/05)

f) Dave said: "Thank you for proving that you cannot deal with my words.
Yet, of course, you claim to be refuting my supposedly, "false
doctrine"." First, note that "Pastor Dave" refused to respond to the
content or subject of the post.
Second, "Pastor Dave" accused 'futurists' of "saying no one can know
when, then claiming it will be in this generation."
The post (which Dave posted into *FOUR* times) was an explanation of the
lie that no one can know when. This post explained that there is a
difference between knowing the Day and Hour, and recognizing the
generation. Dave "top posted" (the act of a Troll) his false
accusations, but refused to consider the subject of the post.

(See "A Time for Everything" by oldwetdog alt.christnet.christianlife
11/28/05)

g) Dave: "Well, you said it's all about YOU and YOUR time and that YOU
have the answers, didn't YOU?"
Dave, please post the link where I (owd) said, "it's all about YOU (me)
and YOUR (my) time and that YOU (I) have the answers, didn't YOU (I)?"
If you cannot or will not, then you are proven to be a liar and false
accusar.

(See "Some Serious Questions" by oldwetdog, alt.christnet.christianlife
12/6/05)

h) Dave, you accused: "That's what YOU say. You claim to know that we
are the generation that will see Jesus return and a lot of other things,
like Europe is in the Bible and so are nuclear weapons AND you claim
these things ARE FACT and also that you do NOT INTERPRET.
Dave, please post a link to the post or statement where I said that I
"do NOT INTERPRET."
If you cannot or will not or do not then you are a false accuser.

Now let us hear the conclusion of the matter:
Pastor Dave (aka Ananias917) is a liar and false accuser.

owd

--
"And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house;
and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the
Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way
as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest
receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost."
- Acts 9:17
.

User: "Budikka666"
Title: Re: * GLENN (OWD) ATTACKS FOR REFUTING EVOLUTIONISTS *	09 Dec 2005 04:42:24 PM

Ananias917 wrote:

Let it be noted that you are so desperate to attack me,
that you do it in response to a message in which I
refuted the claim by an evolutionists.

"...by an evolutionists"?
Yeah, right. You haven't refuted diddly squat. You're plainly and
simply wrong, and that's all there is to it. You cannot point to a
single science paper published in a peer-reviewed science journal which
either refutes the Theory of Evolution of provides an alternative
theory which better explains the evidence.
I provided 666 examples, or references to examples, or supportive of,
macroevolution, (including specific references to speciation which you
yourself have said is macroevolution). You haven't refuted a single
one. Instead, you've posted totally unsupported juvenile gainsaying
which you're now lying was refutation, and then you ran away because
you knew full well you could not keep your end of the agreement - to
discuss the science.

Whenever Glen starts posting the same exact message
in multiple threads like this about me folks, it's a
good signal that he's upset that he just finished
getting his ***** kicked by me. :)

Another lie. Yours is the sorry ***** that's routinely kicked from what
I've seen of your crappy little threads.

You start multiple threads about me, accusing me of
multiple things

Like lying? That's not an accusation, that's a fact.

and when I respond to them,

You don't respond, You post an insult or something that's totally
irrelevant, or you blindly gainsay what's been offered without a shred
of support for your assertions, and then **YOU RUN AWAY**. The proof
of that is right here in this thread.

you run away and won't deal with it.

I can't speak for others, but I'm right here. I've been chasing your
sorry cowardly ***** since long before mid-September (your most recent
pack of lies). Every single time I challenge you, **YOU RUN AWAY**.
How hypocritical of you to accuse others of your own failing.

Then you claim that I'm
the one attacking you, when this is the fifth or sixth
thread today alone that you have started for the
purpose of attacking me and you don't even tell it
like it is.

Get the plank out of your own eye etc., etc.

Does anyone else see the hypocrisy in this?

All we see is your lies, your fraudulent "challenges", your hypocrisy,
your wilful stupidity, and your cowardice.

also seem to think that copying and pasting someone
else's accusation against me, is proof.

My accusations alone - documented and supported - are proof of your
vindictiveness, your stupidity, your hypocrisy, your lies, and your
cowardice. I can support them, and you cnanto refute them. It, like
you, really is that simple.

That's like
the evolutionists saying that evolution is true,
because other evolutionists say so! <chuckle>

Evolution is a proven fact. The Theory of Evoluton explains this fact,
is supported by 150 years of mounting solid scientific evidence,
discovered and published by people of all faiths and all nationalities,
and has no competition.
[Rest of whiney-***** lies and ***** flushed where it belongs]
Budikka
.

User: "Charles Albrecht"
Title: Re: * GLENN (OWD) ATTACKS FOR REFUTING EVOLUTIONISTS *	10 Dec 2005 02:22:42 PM

I hate to remind you guys that '666' is an anagram not a number
that the Romans used because ( 666 = Nero ) and I'm shore that they
did not want emperor Nero to be remembered as a BEAST of the bible
666 is actually likely to report the word 'Nazi'
Do we have any one here who speaks old Latin by chance????
--
Thanks,
Charles Albrecht
free software at http://contact.co.nr
"Budikka666" <budikka1@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1134168144.044513.319840@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

I provided 666 examples, or references to examples, or supportive of,
macroevolution, (including specific references to speciation which you
yourself have said is macroevolution). You haven't refuted a single
one. Instead, you've posted totally unsupported juvenile gainsaying
which you're now lying was refutation, and then you ran away because
you knew full well you could not keep your end of the agreement - to
discuss the science.

User: "Budikka666"
Title: Re: * GLENN (OWD) ATTACKS FOR REFUTING EVOLUTIONISTS *	11 Dec 2005 09:23:39 AM

Charles Albrecht wrote:

The number was actually 616, and it's not certain that it meant Nero,
but it is a good possibility. However, what is your point?
Budikka
.

User: "Libertarius"
Title: *Re: GLENN (OWD) ATTACKS... 666/616=NERO(N)**	11 Dec 2005 11:04:23 AM

Budikka666 wrote:

Charles Albrecht wrote:

The number was actually 616, and it's not certain that it meant Nero,
but it is a good possibility. However, what is your point?

Budikka

===>Based on the FACT that
a. the code appears in BOTH forms in
different manuscripts, i.e. 666 and 616; and
b. the letter "N" has the value of "50"; and
c. the name of the emperor Nero appears
both with or without the final "N" (NERON
and NERO);
the best solution is that the code stands for
that name: NERON=666, NERO=616. -- L.
.

User: "Budikka666"
Title: *Re: GLENN (OWD) ATTACKS... 666/616=NERO(N)**	11 Dec 2005 07:29:04 PM

Libertarius wrote:

Budikka666 wrote:

Charles Albrecht wrote:

The number was actually 616, and it's not certain that it meant Nero,
but it is a good possibility. However, what is your point?

Budikka

You nailed it, L. Now let's see Pastor Dave dance around with it some
more, all the while desperately hoping that no-one will notice that
he's too much of a fraud, a coward, a liar, and a hypocrite to actually
adrress the real issue in this thread, which is his lie that there's no
proof of macroevolution!
B.
.

User: "Libertarius"
Title: *Re: GLENN (OWD) ATTACKS... 666/616=NERO(N)**	11 Dec 2005 08:26:37 PM

Budikka666 wrote:

Libertarius wrote:

Budikka666 wrote:

Charles Albrecht wrote:

The number was actually 616, and it's not certain that it meant Nero,
but it is a good possibility. However, what is your point?

Budikka

===>I am no believer, but predict that he will continue to
"dance around", as you put it. ;-) -- L.
.

User: "Charles Albrecht"
Title: *Re: GLENN (OWD) ATTACKS... 666/616=NERO(N)**	11 Dec 2005 09:49:21 PM

Son of a gun you guys did not answer that one at all...
I even gave you a clue ( need another clue, This is how I found out it was a
bad translation ).
clue two : Nostradamus translated 666 to 'Contrary of the positive ray'
Kinda looks like Nostradamus might have bin translating an older copy of the
book of Revelations
into French ?????
--
Thanks,
Charles Albrecht
free software at http://www.sover.net/~cwalbrec
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:439CDFDD.D5954D0@Nothing_But_The.Truth...

Budikka666 wrote:

Libertarius wrote:

Budikka666 wrote:

Charles Albrecht wrote:

I hate to remind you guys that '666' is an anagram not a number
that the Romans used because ( 666 = Nero ) and I'm shore that

they

did not want emperor Nero to be remembered as a BEAST of the bible
666 is actually likely to report the word 'Nazi'

Do we have any one here who speaks old Latin by chance????

The number was actually 616, and it's not certain that it meant

Nero,

but it is a good possibility. However, what is your point?

Budikka

===>I am no believer, but predict that he will continue to
"dance around", as you put it. ;-) -- L.

User: "Budikka666"
Title: *Re: GLENN (OWD) ATTACKS... 666/616=NERO(N)**	12 Dec 2005 05:50:10 PM

Charles Albrecht wrote:

clue two : Nostradamus translated 666 to 'Contrary of the positive ray'

Here's a free clue for you: Michel de Notre Dame was a moron.
Budikka
.

User: "Jani"
Title: *Re: GLENN (OWD) ATTACKS... 666/616=NERO(N)**	12 Dec 2005 07:40:04 PM

"Budikka666" <budikka1@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1134431410.249918.27570@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

Charles Albrecht wrote:

clue two : Nostradamus translated 666 to 'Contrary of the positive ray'

Here's a free clue for you: Michel de Notre Dame was a moron.

Budikka

May I recommend to you Mr Pratchett and Mr Gaiman's fascinating
reconstruction, in modern idiom, of the Nostradamian prophecy concept, to
wit, "Good Omens" in which one will encounter the nice and accurate
prophecies of Alice Nutter, along with angels, demons, divers alarums,
exeunt omnes, and an entirely new slant on The, or indeed any, Omen.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0441003257/103-5489195-5918233?v=glance&n=283155
Jani
.

User: "Charles Albrecht"
Title: *Re: GLENN (OWD) ATTACKS... 666/616=NERO(N)**	12 Dec 2005 11:26:20 PM

Hi again
This was my original reason to believe that it had bin a miss translation
all along ( NERO==> NERON ==> NETRON ( Neutron ???)) ( A-Bombs ) could be!
remember the word they were tying to say did not exist at that time at all
nor the concept either so they tried to write in in a sort of phonetic code
That and the sound of Nero in it may have bin driving them buggy???
Maybe I should take this up with the Pope???
--
Thanks,
Charles Albrecht
free software at http://www.sover.net/~cwalbrec
"Jani" <jani@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:kpedncsuz-XouwPeRVnygQ@pipex.net...

"Budikka666" <budikka1@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1134431410.249918.27570@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

Charles Albrecht wrote:

clue two : Nostradamus translated 666 to 'Contrary of the positive ray'

Here's a free clue for you: Michel de Notre Dame was a moron.

Budikka

Well you might think he was but I am under the impression that he may
be the best educated man of his time

I am not familiar with these references
.

User: "Charles Albrecht"
Title: *Re: GLENN (OWD) ATTACKS... 666/616=NERO(N)**	11 Dec 2005 11:33:48 AM

Very GOOD my friend you almost have it
you would have it now take it the rest of the way
What one letter translations error would make it a word we use today?
and could be the great beast ( Murder of mankind )?
Clue ( we now use this word almost every day )...
--
Thanks,
Charles Albrecht
free software at http://contact.co.nr
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:439C5C16.2292841A@Nothing_But_The.Truth...

Budikka666 wrote:

Charles Albrecht wrote:

The number was actually 616, and it's not certain that it meant Nero,
but it is a good possibility. However, what is your point?

Budikka

User: "Ananias917"
Title: Re: * GLENN (OWD) ATTACKS FOR REFUTING EVOLUTIONISTS *	10 Dec 2005 10:40:44 PM

On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 15:22:42 -0500, "Charles Albrecht"
<cwalbrec@sover.net> spake thusly:

Latin is irrelevant as to the Bible. Hebrew and Greek
are important, however. 666 is not three sixes, but
it is a number, not an anagram. Letters represented
numbers in both Hebrew and Greek and the number
expressed here, is "six hundred and sixty six" and it
did equate to Nero in Hebrew, which would be,
"Nrn Ksr" (Hebrews doesn't have vowels).
--
"And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house;
and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the
Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way
as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest
receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost."
- Acts 9:17
.

User: "Budikka666"
Title: Re: * GLENN (OWD) ATTACKS FOR REFUTING EVOLUTIONISTS *	11 Dec 2005 09:36:36 AM

Ananias917 lied:

Latin is irrelevant as to the Bible.

It's as irrelevant as you are, Pastor Dud.
You have to wonder why it is that Pastor Dud, who challenged atheists
to provide scientific proof of macroevolution, would avoid like the
plague addressing that topic in a thead which provides **THIRTY
EXAMPLES OF MACROEVOLUTION**, in a thread which implicitly carries his
promise of a scientific exchange on the topic, yet passionately
discourse on everything else.
There's a scientific word for that behavior.
It's called cowardice.

Hebrew and Greek are important, however.

Makes you wodner why, doesn't it, that Greek is important, when the
language was Aramaic. Gotta call into question *all* of that new
testament myth.

666 is not three sixes, but
it is a number, not an anagram.

The numeric equivalent of "Pastor Dave" is a big fat zero.

Letters represented
numbers in both Hebrew and Greek and the number
expressed here, is "six hundred and sixty six" and it
did equate to Nero in Hebrew, which would be,
"Nrn Ksr" (Hebrews doesn't have vowels).

He actually talks like he knows something, doesn't he? He knows the
skimmed surface, but not what lies beneath. However, even that is
infinitely more than he knows about evolution, as his cowardice, lies,
fraud, and hypocrisy shows. And that's what *this* thread is about.
Watch him run away from this message. He'll either not answer it at
all, or he'll dismiss it out of hand, without a shred of the scientific
discussion of examples of macroevoltuon that he dishonestly promised to
anyone who would submit them. Or he'll lie that he's already addressed
the examples, and refuted them, when he hasn't even addressed,
scientifically, one of them.
I submitted SIX HUNDRED AND SIXTY SIX of them, and he has run from
every single one without even a pretence at offering the **SCIENTIFIC
EXCHANGE** that he promised. If you don't believe me, ask him to point
to even one message in his original thread where he actually had a
scientific exchange with me, where he supported his assertions with
science. Ask him where he did this in *any of the examples I
submitted* - or any example anyone else submitted.
Now he's lying that not one example has been presented. He's lying
that he refuted them. He's lying that he addressed them. He's lying
that he supported his "refutation" when the truth is that he has
supported nothing. He's simply knee-jerk gainsaid every single example
*everyone* has provided, and not indulged even once in a scientific
*EXCHANGE**. That's Disaster Dave's idea of being a Christian..
Budikka
.

User: "Libertarius"
Title: Re: * GLENN (OWD) ATTACKS FOR REFUTING EVOLUTIONISTS *	11 Dec 2005 11:09:56 AM

Budikka666 wrote:

Ananias917 lied:

Latin is irrelevant as to the Bible.

It's as irrelevant as you are, Pastor Dud.

You have to wonder why it is that Pastor Dud, who challenged atheists
to provide scientific proof of macroevolution, would avoid like the
plague addressing that topic in a thead which provides **THIRTY
EXAMPLES OF MACROEVOLUTION**, in a thread which implicitly carries his
promise of a scientific exchange on the topic, yet passionately
discourse on everything else.

There's a scientific word for that behavior.

It's called cowardice.

Hebrew and Greek are important, however.

Makes you wodner why, doesn't it, that Greek is important, when the
language was Aramaic. Gotta call into question *all* of that new
testament myth.

666 is not three sixes, but
it is a number, not an anagram.

The numeric equivalent of "Pastor Dave" is a big fat zero.

He actually talks like he knows something, doesn't he? He knows the
skimmed surface, but not what lies beneath. However, even that is
infinitely more than he knows about evolution, as his cowardice, lies,
fraud, and hypocrisy shows. And that's what *this* thread is about.

Watch him run away from this message. He'll either not answer it at
all, or he'll dismiss it out of hand, without a shred of the scientific
discussion of examples of macroevoltuon that he dishonestly promised to
anyone who would submit them. Or he'll lie that he's already addressed
the examples, and refuted them, when he hasn't even addressed,
scientifically, one of them.

I submitted SIX HUNDRED AND SIXTY SIX of them, and he has run from
every single one without even a pretence at offering the **SCIENTIFIC
EXCHANGE** that he promised. If you don't believe me, ask him to point
to even one message in his original thread where he actually had a
scientific exchange with me, where he supported his assertions with
science. Ask him where he did this in *any of the examples I
submitted* - or any example anyone else submitted.

Now he's lying that not one example has been presented. He's lying
that he refuted them. He's lying that he addressed them. He's lying
that he supported his "refutation" when the truth is that he has
supported nothing. He's simply knee-jerk gainsaid every single example
*everyone* has provided, and not indulged even once in a scientific
*EXCHANGE**. That's Disaster Dave's idea of being a Christian..

Budikka

===>Your efforts are wasted on him.
He follows the Pauline principle
(1 Cor. 2:15):
"The spiritual man [i.e. Pauline Christian]
makes judgments about all things,
but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment"
Does this not explain the crazy behavior of DD? -- L.
.

User: "Budikka666"
Title: Re: * GLENN (OWD) ATTACKS FOR REFUTING EVOLUTIONISTS *	11 Dec 2005 07:31:16 PM

Libertarius wrote:

Budikka666 wrote:

Ananias917 lied:

Latin is irrelevant as to the Bible.

It's as irrelevant as you are, Pastor Dud.

You have to wonder why it is that Pastor Dud, who challenged atheists
to provide scientific proof of macroevolution, would avoid like the
plague addressing that topic in a thead which provides **THIRTY
EXAMPLES OF MACROEVOLUTION**, in a thread which implicitly carries his
promise of a scientific exchange on the topic, yet passionately
discourse on everything else.

There's a scientific word for that behavior.

It's called cowardice.

Hebrew and Greek are important, however.

Makes you wodner why, doesn't it, that Greek is important, when the
language was Aramaic. Gotta call into question *all* of that new
testament myth.

666 is not three sixes, but
it is a number, not an anagram.

The numeric equivalent of "Pastor Dave" is a big fat zero.

He actually talks like he knows something, doesn't he? He knows the
skimmed surface, but not what lies beneath. However, even that is
infinitely more than he knows about evolution, as his cowardice, lies,
fraud, and hypocrisy shows. And that's what *this* thread is about.

Watch him run away from this message. He'll either not answer it at
all, or he'll dismiss it out of hand, without a shred of the scientific
discussion of examples of macroevoltuon that he dishonestly promised to
anyone who would submit them. Or he'll lie that he's already addressed
the examples, and refuted them, when he hasn't even addressed,
scientifically, one of them.

I submitted SIX HUNDRED AND SIXTY SIX of them, and he has run from
every single one without even a pretence at offering the **SCIENTIFIC
EXCHANGE** that he promised. If you don't believe me, ask him to point
to even one message in his original thread where he actually had a
scientific exchange with me, where he supported his assertions with
science. Ask him where he did this in *any of the examples I
submitted* - or any example anyone else submitted.

Now he's lying that not one example has been presented. He's lying
that he refuted them. He's lying that he addressed them. He's lying
that he supported his "refutation" when the truth is that he has
supported nothing. He's simply knee-jerk gainsaid every single example
*everyone* has provided, and not indulged even once in a scientific
*EXCHANGE**. That's Disaster Dave's idea of being a Christian..

Budikka

===>Your efforts are wasted on him.
He follows the Pauline principle
(1 Cor. 2:15):
"The spiritual man [i.e. Pauline Christian]
makes judgments about all things,
but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment"

Does this not explain the crazy behavior of DD? -- L.

I'm sure you're right - at least it sounds scientific. Me? I just put
it down to cowardice and gross incompetence! LoL!
B.
.

User: "Charles Albrecht"
Title: Re: * GLENN (OWD) ATTACKS FOR REFUTING EVOLUTIONISTS *	11 Dec 2005 01:03:58 AM

Sorry, My friend but it is Latin not Hebrew
Almost all of the bibles today are in the most part built from
the Latin. As in King James V. Most people still believe
the first bible was written in Latin but Roman Catholic bible is at a third
hand translation I give a very good example of why it cannot be Hebrew
"and 144000 people entered into heaven because they were virgins"
This one fools just about everybody who sees it there is two big clues as
to what language this comes from. Seeing that 144000 is such a unique
signature
First the number is 144000 ( 12000 x 12000 ) only one language ever used
this one
in old Pheadrin ( 144000 = 'Great Multitude' ) ( 12000 = 'Many thousands )
( 12 = 'Many' )...
Second The use of virgins in the same language is the same word as 'Pure' ,
'Chased','Clean'
We therefore can translate thus the same line as this...
"and a great multitude entered into heaven because they were pure" makes
much better since I think follow it
all way through the rest of the passages you will like it much better too.
Works even beater than the Latin translation.
Maybe you and I and some others can get together and recover the original
book
and retranslate the whole thing it would be nice to see the really bad
translations
like 'Noah's Ark' and 'Jonah and the whale' turned into good ones?
--
Thanks,
Charles Albrecht
free software at http://contact.co.nr
"Ananias917" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:q8bnp1tvr7ii8d0qnnc3irnhv30aogduo9@4ax.com...

On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 15:22:42 -0500, "Charles Albrecht"
<cwalbrec@sover.net> spake thusly:

Latin is irrelevant as to the Bible. Hebrew and Greek
are important, however. 666 is not three sixes, but
it is a number, not an anagram. Letters represented
numbers in both Hebrew and Greek and the number
expressed here, is "six hundred and sixty six" and it
did equate to Nero in Hebrew, which would be,
"Nrn Ksr" (Hebrews doesn't have vowels).

--

"And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house;
and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the
Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way
as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest
receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost."
- Acts 9:17

User: "Ananias917"
Title: Re: * GLENN (OWD) ATTACKS FOR REFUTING EVOLUTIONISTS *	11 Dec 2005 02:20:35 AM

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 02:03:58 -0500, "Charles Albrecht"
<cwalbrec@sover.net> spake thusly:

Sorry, My friend but it is Latin not Hebrew
Almost all of the bibles today are in the most part built from
the Latin.

Since when was the Bible written in Latin? The
original language of the NT was Greek and any
translation after that, is irrelevant.
In dealing with translations however, what is done,
is to take the Greek, which also uses letters to
represent numbers and translate the numbers
into our numbers.
As for the 144,000, that has nothing to do with
the "666" and to try to take a future Latin translation
and claim that is upstages the original language,
makes no sense at all. (:
--
"And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house;
and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the
Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way
as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest
receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost."
- Acts 9:17
.

User: "Budikka666"
Title: Re: * GLENN (OWD) ATTACKS FOR REFUTING EVOLUTIONISTS *	11 Dec 2005 09:43:00 AM

Ananias917 wrote:

Since when was the Bible written in Latin? The
original language of the NT was Greek and any
translation after that, is irrelevant.

LoL! How the Internet's most clueless idiot like to embarrass himself.
Look at how he will go into any amount of exchange on a topic that's
not related to the point of the thread! He'll try to talk the hind
legs off a donkey when it doesn't have anything to do with evolution,
but you try and get him into a scientific exchange on evolution -
specifically on the examples of macroevolution that have been laid out
before him - examples that directly provide the proof he asserted
(without a shred of support) doesn't exist, and he'll run like a
scalded cat!

In dealing with translations however, what is done,
is to take the Greek, which also uses letters to
represent numbers and translate the numbers
into our numbers.

Your number's up Disaster Dave.

As for the 144,000, that has nothing to do with
the "666" and to try to take a future Latin translation
and claim that is upstages the original language,
makes no sense at all.

What makes no sense is how you will talk up a storm about anything but
the topic at hand - proof of macroevolution.
The solution to this little dilemma lies in the demonstrated fact that
you are a coward, a liar, a hypocrite, and a fraud.
Budikka
.

User: "oldwetdog"
Title: Re: * GLENN (OWD) ATTACKS FOR REFUTING EVOLUTIONISTS *	09 Dec 2005 06:21:58 PM

Ananias917 wrote:

On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 18:41:16 -0800, oldwetdog
<oldwetdog@hotmail.com> spake thusly:

Ananias917 wrote:

On 8 Dec 2005 04:53:23 -0800, "Budikka666"
<budikka1@netscape.net> spake thusly:

As usual, this idiot tries to past in a ton of supposed
"evidence". He wants to spend five minutes with
copy and paste and then falsely ridicule anyone
who doesn't spend days responding to each and
every one of them. So I selected the first one
in the list and then I will kill file him again,
knowing that he is dishonest and failed the test
already. Now he tries to find as much as he can,
specifically because of how foolish I made him
look, which only shows that he knows that he
didn't know what he was talking about then
and he still doesn't. He has however, learned
how to copy and paste claims. If asked to go
into detail about them, in his own words, of course,
he will not be able to. <chuckle>

�Paleontologists have tried to turn Archaeopteryx into
an earth-bound, feathered dinosaur. But it�s not. It is
a bird, a perching bird. And no amount of 'paleobabble'
is going to change that.� - Alan Feduccia

Also see...

http://research.unc.edu/endeavors/spr97/bird.html

The title of this post by Dave, aka "Pastor Dave" or "Ananias917"
is "* GLENN (OWD) ATTACKS FOR REFUTING EVOLUTIONISTS * "
Dave, can you post the link where I made any statement about Evolution?
What in the wide wide world does some one elses discussion about
Evolution have to do with my posting a list of your lies? Where is the
evidence that I owd have been involved, participated or engaged in this
discussion of evolution?
Can't your sick mind comprehend that you have just told another lie?
Dave, just keep telling your lies and we will just keep adding them to
the growing list of your lies.
The growing list of Lies and False Accusations by Pastor Dave, (aka
Ananias917)
(See post "Pastor Dave is Invisable to me" alt.christnet.christianlife,
11/19/05)
Pastor Dave said, "Find me telling one lie." (11/26)
1) On more than one occasion Dave accused owd, "Now you go ahead and
keep pasting links to the daily news.."
Dave, please post a link to any post or statement of where I (owd) "keep
pasting links to the daily news..."
If you cannot or will not, then you are proven to be a liar and false
accusar.
2) Dave posted, "The simple fact is, that what you bombard us with, is
day after day of news reports, with claims that they're in the Bible.
Dave, please post a those links where I (owd) have "bombard you with, is
day after day of news reports, with claims that they're in the Bible."
If you cannot or will not, then you are proven to be a liar and false
accusar.
3) Dave posted, "Btw, have you written a letter of apology to Saddam
Hussein yet? Have you taken the time to apologize to him, for calling
him, "The AntiChrist"?
Dave, please post the link to where I (owd) stated, said, or calling
him, "The AntiChrist"?
If you cannot or will not, then you are proven to be a liar and false
accusar.
4) Hey, thanks for being a "good Christian" and continuing this thread...
Dave, this is another false accusation-- because, YOU POSTED into this
thread _19 TIMES_ to my (owd) SIX (6) posts. There are about eight
people who posted to this thread, and you OUT POSTED them all! YOU ARE
THE ONE WHO KEPT THE THREAD GOING!
Proving (again) that you are a false accuser.
5) Dave accused, "You practice newspaper prophecy, trying to wrap your
Bible around the daily news. Everything that happens in the news,
suddenly becomes, "Bible prophecy being fulfilled before our eyes".
Dave, please post links to any post or statement where I claim
"Everything that happens in the news, suddenly becomes, "Bible prophecy
being fulfilled before our eyes".
If you cannot or will not, then you are proven to be a liar and false
accusar.
(See Post "Knowing When" by oldwetdog, alt.christnet.christainlife 11/26/05)
6) Dave said: "Thank you for proving that you cannot deal with my words.
Yet, of course, you claim to be refuting my supposedly, "false
doctrine"." First, note that "Pastor Dave" refused to respond to the
content or subject of the post.
Second, "Pastor Dave" accused 'futurists' of "saying no one can know
when, then claiming it will be in this generation."
The post (which Dave posted into *FOUR* times) was an explanation of the
lie that no one can know when. This post explained that there is a
difference between knowing the Day and Hour, and recognizing the
generation. Dave "top posted" (the act of a Troll) his false
accusations, but refused to consider the subject of the post.
(See "A Time for Everything" by oldwetdog alt.christnet.christianlife
11/28/05)
7) Dave: "Well, you said it's all about YOU and YOUR time and that YOU
have the answers, didn't YOU?"
Dave, please post the link where I (owd) said, "it's all about YOU (me)
and YOUR (my) time and that YOU (I) have the answers, didn't YOU (I)?"
If you cannot or will not, then you are proven to be a liar and false
accusar.
(See "Some Serious Questions" by oldwetdog, alt.christnet.christianlife
12/6/05)
8) Dave, you accused: "That's what YOU say. You claim to know that we
are the generation that will see Jesus return and a lot of other things,
like Europe is in the Bible and so are nuclear weapons AND you claim
these things ARE FACT and also that you do NOT INTERPRET.
Dave, please post a link to the post or statement where I said that I
"do NOT INTERPRET."
If you can not or will not or do not then you are a false accuser and a
liar.
9) Dave said that I have accused him of attacking me, owd.
Dave, please post a link to any post or statement by me where I have
accused you of attacking me.
If you can not or will not or do not then you are a false accuser and a
liar.
10) "Pastor" Dave, aka "ananias917, claims that I, owd, ignore proof
about the rapture...
Dave, please post a link to any post or statement I have made where I,
owd, either support the doctrine of the rapture.
If you can not, or do not, post proof that I agree with or support
rapture doctrine then you are again proved to be a false accuser and a liar.
Having considered the evidence of "Pastor Dave's" own words, let us hear
the conclusion of the matter: Pastor Dave (aka Ananias917) is a liar and
false accuser.
.

User: "Ananias917"
Title: Re: * GLENN (OWD) ATTACKS FOR REFUTING EVOLUTIONISTS *	09 Dec 2005 09:01:44 PM

On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 16:21:58 -0800, oldwetdog
<oldwetdog@hotmail.com> spake thusly:

Ananias917 wrote:

On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 18:41:16 -0800, oldwetdog
<oldwetdog@hotmail.com> spake thusly:

Ananias917 wrote:

On 8 Dec 2005 04:53:23 -0800, "Budikka666"
<budikka1@netscape.net> spake thusly:

As usual, this idiot tries to past in a ton of supposed
"evidence". He wants to spend five minutes with
copy and paste and then falsely ridicule anyone
who doesn't spend days responding to each and
every one of them. So I selected the first one
in the list and then I will kill file him again,
knowing that he is dishonest and failed the test
already. Now he tries to find as much as he can,
specifically because of how foolish I made him
look, which only shows that he knows that he
didn't know what he was talking about then
and he still doesn't. He has however, learned
how to copy and paste claims. If asked to go
into detail about them, in his own words, of course,
he will not be able to. <chuckle>

�Paleontologists have tried to turn Archaeopteryx into
an earth-bound, feathered dinosaur. But it�s not. It is
a bird, a perching bird. And no amount of 'paleobabble'
is going to change that.� - Alan Feduccia

Also see...

http://research.unc.edu/endeavors/spr97/bird.html

The title of this post by Dave, aka "Pastor Dave" or "Ananias917"

is "* GLENN (OWD) ATTACKS FOR REFUTING EVOLUTIONISTS * "

Dave, can you post the link where I made any statement about Evolution?

Listen, dumbass, I refuted and evolutionists and you
posted an attack on me in response to my post.

What in the wide wide world does some one elses discussion about
Evolution have to do with my posting a list of your lies? Where is the
evidence that I owd have been involved, participated or engaged in this
discussion of evolution?

Can't your sick mind comprehend that you have just told another lie?

Dave, just keep telling your lies and we will just keep adding them to
the growing list of your lies.

The growing list of Lies and False Accusations by Pastor Dave, (aka
Ananias917)

(See post "Pastor Dave is Invisable to me" alt.christnet.christianlife,
11/19/05)

Pastor Dave said, "Find me telling one lie." (11/26)

1) On more than one occasion Dave accused owd, "Now you go ahead and
keep pasting links to the daily news.."
Dave, please post a link to any post or statement of where I (owd) "keep
pasting links to the daily news..."
If you cannot or will not, then you are proven to be a liar and false
accusar.

2) Dave posted, "The simple fact is, that what you bombard