| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jeremy" |
| Date: |
20 Aug 2003 08:27:43 PM |
| Object: |
Evidences of God - Preface |
Evidences of God - Preface
I have recently been involved in discussions that have been crossposted
in several newsgroups. Because, in all of these newsgroups, people have
asked me for my evidence that God exists, I am cross posting this thread
to all of these newsgroups, so that everyone who has been discussing on
the other threads will see and be able to converse in this thread.
Some of the items that I will be posting will be items that I have
posted before. I know this, but everyone may not have read them that
will be in this discussion, so I am reposting it.
Because of the amount of information that I plan on posting for this
discussion, I would like to make a suggestion. If you plan on posting a
reply to a single point made in the discussion, please append a suffix
(or change an existing one) to the subject line of the post. It will
make it easier to follow the threads.
Also please note that, unless I state otherwise, my postings will be
based on my beliefs. I know that there will be other people who have
differing beliefs and opinions, and that is fine.
In summary, I want to be able to have an honest, open minded discussion
on the subject. By open minded I simply mean that we look at each post,
regardless of the author, at face value. We should at least try to
understand what the author is saying before replying. I am not saying
that anyone needs to believe or accept anything that is posted, I would
just ask that we respect each other's views as being valid in their eyes.
Now I know asking Usenet posters to behave can be like asking a dog to
quit chasing cats, but at least I made the attempt.
--- Jeremy
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| User: "Mani Deli" |
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| Title: Faith |
02 May 2004 08:27:45 PM |
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"We may define "faith" as the firm belief in something for which there
is no evidence. Where there is evidence, no one speaks of "faith."
We do not speak of faith that two and two are four or that the earth
is round. We only speak of faith when we wish to substitute emotion
for evidence. The substitution of emotion for evidence is apt to
lead to strife, since different groups, substitute different
emotions."
[Bertrand Russell
No skill no art!
Tired of Modern Art? check http://www3.sympatico.ca/manideli/
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Faith |
03 May 2004 10:07:15 AM |
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On Sun, 02 May 2004 21:27:45 -0400, Mani Deli
<mani@sympatico.ca> spake thusly:
"We may define "faith" as the firm belief in something for which there
is no evidence. Where there is evidence, no one speaks of "faith."
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for; the
EVIDENCE of things not seen. - Hebrews 11:1
Note that hope, as expressed in the Bible, speaks of
confidence and not the way the word is used today.
"So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill
everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to
do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is
not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four
hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them
to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan" Judges 21:10-24
--
± Pastor Dave ±
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
Wise men study the unknown, and boldly seeks answers !
Others... fall on their hands and knees, and start mumbling..
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Faith |
02 May 2004 09:29:59 PM |
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On Sun, 02 May 2004 21:27:45 -0400, Mani Deli
<mani@sympatico.ca> spake thusly:
"We may define "faith" as the firm belief in something for which there
is no evidence. Where there is evidence, no one speaks of "faith."
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for; the
EVIDENCE of things not seen. - Hebrews 11:1
Note that hope, as expressed in the Bible, speaks of
confidence and not the way the word is used today.
--
± Pastor Dave Raymond ±
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
"The religion that does not begin at home,
does not begin" - Adrian Rogers
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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| User: "Sara Brum" |
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| Title: Re: Faith |
03 May 2004 02:27:14 AM |
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"Pastor Dave" <nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:djbb9013i6etv51hg858gkjmqg7515eg6p@4ax.com...
On Sun, 02 May 2004 21:27:45 -0400, Mani Deli
<mani@sympatico.ca> spake thusly:
"We may define "faith" as the firm belief in something for which there
is no evidence. Where there is evidence, no one speaks of "faith."
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for; the
EVIDENCE of things not seen. - Hebrews 11:1
Even allowing that this is an accurate translation to English, all it proves
is that some idiot a few thousand years ago wanted some other idiots a few
thousand years ago to believe that emotions are proof of the existance of
the god he used to con them.
"There's a sucker born every minute." This quote has been attributed to
both P.T. Barnum and his competitor, David Hannum. Whoever said it, they
sure got it right.
Note that hope, as expressed in the Bible, speaks of
confidence and not the way the word is used today.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Faith |
03 May 2004 09:29:40 AM |
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On Mon, 3 May 2004 17:27:14 +1000, "Sara Brum"
<sarabrum@medulla.com> spake thusly:
"Pastor Dave" <nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:djbb9013i6etv51hg858gkjmqg7515eg6p@4ax.com...
On Sun, 02 May 2004 21:27:45 -0400, Mani Deli
<mani@sympatico.ca> spake thusly:
"We may define "faith" as the firm belief in something for which
there
is no evidence. Where there is evidence, no one speaks of "faith."
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for; the
EVIDENCE of things not seen. - Hebrews 11:1
Even allowing that this is an accurate translation to English, all it
proves is that some idiot a few thousand years ago wanted some other
idiots a few thousand years ago to believe that emotions are proof of
the existance of the god he used to con them.
Your hatred of God is noted. Now prove that the writer
was an idiot. I can't offer any proof one way or the other.
--
± Pastor Dave ±
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
Wise men study the unknown, and boldly seeks answers !
Others... fall on their hands and knees, and start mumbling..
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Faith |
03 May 2004 06:41:30 AM |
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On Mon, 3 May 2004 17:27:14 +1000, "Sara Brum"
<sarabrum@medulla.com> spake thusly:
"Pastor Dave" <nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:djbb9013i6etv51hg858gkjmqg7515eg6p@4ax.com...
On Sun, 02 May 2004 21:27:45 -0400, Mani Deli
<mani@sympatico.ca> spake thusly:
"We may define "faith" as the firm belief in something for which there
is no evidence. Where there is evidence, no one speaks of "faith."
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for; the
EVIDENCE of things not seen. - Hebrews 11:1
Even allowing that this is an accurate translation to English, all it proves
is that some idiot a few thousand years ago wanted some other idiots a few
thousand years ago to believe that emotions are proof of the existance of
the god he used to con them.
Your hatred of God is noted. Now prove that the writer
was an idiot.
--
± Pastor Dave Raymond ±
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
"If life had evolved into its wondrous profusion of
creatures little by little, Dr. Eldredge argues, then
one would expect to find fossils of transitional
creatures which were a bit like what went before them
and a bit like what came after. But no one has yet
found any evidence of such transitional creatures.
This oddity has been attributed to gaps in the fossil
record which gradualists expected to fill when rock
strata of the proper age had been found. In the last
decade, however, geologists have found rock layers of
all divisions of the last 500 million years and no
transitional forms were contained in them." (The
Guardian Weekly, 26 Nov 1978, vol 119, no 22, p. 1)
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
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| User: "David V." |
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| Title: Re: Faith |
03 May 2004 09:32:43 AM |
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Pastor Dave wrote:
"Sara Brum" <sarabrum@medulla.com> spake thusly:
"Pastor Dave" <nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote
Mani Deli <mani@sympatico.ca> spake thusly:
"We may define "faith" as the firm belief in
something for which there is no evidence. Where
there is evidence, no one speaks of "faith."
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for; the
EVIDENCE of things not seen. - Hebrews 11:1
Even allowing that this is an accurate translation to
English, all it proves is that some idiot a few
thousand years ago wanted some other idiots a few
thousand years ago to believe that emotions are proof
of the existance of the god he used to con them.
Your hatred of God is noted.
How can someone "hate" something they do not believe exists?
Hate is a christian value, not an Atheist, or Humanist, one.
Now prove that the writer was an idiot.
What he wrote proves that.
--
David V.
UDP for WebTV
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| User: "Thomas P." |
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| Title: Re: Faith |
03 May 2004 12:44:10 PM |
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On Sun, 02 May 2004 22:29:59 -0400, Pastor Dave
<nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sun, 02 May 2004 21:27:45 -0400, Mani Deli
<mani@sympatico.ca> spake thusly:
"We may define "faith" as the firm belief in something for which there
is no evidence. Where there is evidence, no one speaks of "faith."
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for; the
EVIDENCE of things not seen. - Hebrews 11:1
Note that hope, as expressed in the Bible, speaks of
confidence and not the way the word is used today.
Note that you offered nothing to refute Russell's point. You have no
evidence.
Thomas P.
None of the Emperor's clothes had been so successful before.
"But he has got nothing on," said a little child.
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| User: "FlamingoMike" |
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| Title: Re: Faith |
02 May 2004 10:38:47 PM |
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Pastor Dave wrote:
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for; the
EVIDENCE of things not seen. - Hebrews 11:1
Note that hope, as expressed in the Bible, speaks of
confidence and not the way the word is used today.
So how is "day" expressed, or "all living creatures" or "all the
world" or "suffer not a witch to live" or ... and not the way its
used today?
Sheesh.....the goal posts keep moving.
--
Regards,
Mike
'Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.'
(Aldous Huxley)
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| User: "Weatherwax" |
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| Title: Re: sex advice |
24 Aug 2003 04:38:38 PM |
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"Mani Deli" <mani@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:iindkvombape08bdojhd38snrnt0ubbvku@4ax.com...
"As regards the individual nature, woman is defective
and misbegotten, for the active power of the male seed
tends to the production of a perfect likeness in the
masculine sex; while the production of a woman comes
from defect in the active power...."
[Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica,Q92, art. 1,
Reply Obj. 1]
"I feel that nothing so casts down the manly mind from
it's height as the fondling of women and those bodily
contacts which belong to the married state."
[St. Augustine, De Trinitate 7.7]
Nothing is so much to be shunned as sex relations."
[St. Augustine (354-430)]
"When the temptation to masturbate is strong, yell "Stop!"
to those thoughts as loudly as you can in your mind. Then
recite a portion of the Bible or sing a hymn."
[Mormon _Guide to Self-Control_]
"men are guilty of committing adultry with their own wives
if they look at them with lust."
Pope JP II
and remember that:
"All diseases of Christians are to be ascribed to demons;
chiefly do they torment freshly-baptized Christians,
yea, even the guiltless new-born infants."
[Saint Augustine (354-430)]
...no skill no art!
While the virgin Mary may have been able to conceive without sin,
the modern woman have the far greater advantage of being able to
sin without conceiving.
--
Wax
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| User: "Hypatia Kosh" |
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| Title: Re: sex advice |
24 Aug 2003 06:40:07 PM |
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(Bob Crowley) wrote in message news:<adff117.0308230132.6485b5b4@posting.google.com>...
Mani Deli <mani@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<iindkvombape08bdojhd38snrnt0ubbvku@4ax.com>...
"As regards the individual nature, woman is defective and misbegotten,
for the active power of the male seed tends to the production of a
perfect likeness in the masculine sex; while the production of a
woman comes from defect in the active power...."
[Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica,Q92, art. 1, Reply Obj. 1]
"All diseases of Christians are to be ascribed to demons;
chiefly do they torment freshly-baptized Christians,
yea, even the guiltless new-born infants."
[Saint Augustine (354-430)]
...no skill no art!
http://www3.sympatico.ca/manideli/
Every age veers to one side or the other of liberalism and
conservatism.
In this age we have veered to the edge of self destruction with
sexually transmitted diseases. At other times we were puritan and
hypocritical in sexual relations.
Huh? As opposed to the previous 6 centuries when syphilis ran rampant?
Though I think some new memes like using condoms and realistically
assessing sexual risks, not to mention teaching kids some sense before
they're old enough to ***** up on their own, would help a lot.
-Hypatia
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| User: "Mani Deli" |
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| Title: Re: sex advice |
23 Aug 2003 11:28:55 PM |
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On 23 Aug 2003 02:32:47 -0700, (Bob
Crowley) wrote:
Every age veers to one side or the other of liberalism and
conservatism.
and to utter stupidity.
"men are guilty of committing adultery with their own wives if they
look at them with lust."
Pope JP II
Most men are products of their time, including today's atheists
inculturated with the scientific, materialistic vogue of their time.
So what's new?
The pope is a 12th century product.
Augustine was living through the collapse of a civilisation, the Roman
Empire which had endured almost 1000 years (although it was to endure
in Byzantium for another 1000 in a different form). Hence his morbid
pronouncements on women. And Augustine had been a womaniser himself
before conversion, and perhaps for some time after it. Therefore he
probably feared sexual temptation as it was probably his own single
greatest weakness.
Last I heard the pope was still alive.
....no skill no art!
http://www3.sympatico.ca/manideli/
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| User: "Bob Crowley" |
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| Title: Re: sex advice |
24 Aug 2003 07:42:14 AM |
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Mani Deli <mani@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<tffgkv047f0r27638vl151tudq7r8ovmec@4ax.com>...
On 23 Aug 2003 02:32:47 -0700, (Bob
Crowley) wrote:
Every age veers to one side or the other of liberalism and
conservatism.
and to utter stupidity.
What would you say of today's world, teetering on the brink of self
inflicted destruction via environmental, economic, military, political
and religious stupidity. Note that there are 4 other factors there.
"men are guilty of committing adultery with their own wives if they
look at them with lust."
Pope JP II
If you are married or have a girlfriend, is she a person, ie. a woman,
or a sex object?
Most men are products of their time, including today's atheists
inculturated with the scientific, materialistic vogue of their time.
So what's new?
The pope is a 12th century product.
AT least he swims against the current. Most of us just drift along
with it.
Augustine was living through the collapse of a civilisation, the Roman
Empire which had endured almost 1000 years (although it was to endure
in Byzantium for another 1000 in a different form). Hence his morbid
pronouncements on women. And Augustine had been a womaniser himself
before conversion, and perhaps for some time after it. Therefore he
probably feared sexual temptation as it was probably his own single
greatest weakness.
Last I heard the pope was still alive.
Amazing how the Pope seems to be allied with the old Roman Empire.
"Rome" in Revelation was a symbol of all that which stood against
Christianity in the world, especially the world system. Which power
today has the label of the most powerful secular nation, with the
strongest military by far, enough ability in a single battle fleet to
destroy most nations, with multinationals which intefere daily in
other economies? If you had to denote the New Rome of today, which
power would you nominate, with all due respect?
Bob Crowley.>
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| User: "Eric Pepke" |
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| Title: Re: sex advice |
24 Aug 2003 06:46:46 PM |
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(Bob Crowley) wrote in message news:<adff117.0308240442.17683b20@posting.google.com>...
If you are married or have a girlfriend, is she a person, ie. a woman,
or a sex object?
She's a person and a woman and a sex object, just as I am a
person and a woman and a sex object to her. This is as it should
be.
It's really irritating to see all this "sexual objectivization" business
denigrated. Everyone in his and/or her right mind wants to be
a sex object. Some people say, "oh, but not ONLY a sex object"
as if this were even remotely to the point, but only because they
have discovered that it's an easy way to make use of the influence
of puritan beliefs to make people feel bad without actually admitting
adherence to those beliefs.
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| User: "Hypatia Kosh" |
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| Title: Re: sex advice |
24 Aug 2003 06:44:36 PM |
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(Bob Crowley) wrote in message news:<adff117.0308240442.17683b20@posting.google.com>...
Mani Deli <mani@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<tffgkv047f0r27638vl151tudq7r8ovmec@4ax.com>...
On 23 Aug 2003 02:32:47 -0700, (Bob
Crowley) wrote:
What would you say of today's world, teetering on the brink of self
inflicted destruction via environmental, economic, military, political
and religious stupidity. Note that there are 4 other factors there.
"men are guilty of committing adultery with their own wives if they
look at them with lust."
Pope JP II
If you are married or have a girlfriend, is she a person, ie. a woman,
or a sex object?
Yeah, women really hate it when their husbands think they're sexy.
That's so *objectifying*. It's much better for men to have an
obsessive devotion to the Virgin Mary so their wives can be freed from
the male inciting their evil fleshy desires (which are so much closer
to them because they're women and give birth) and can seek spiritual
purity and holiness.
Women who feel sexy and sexually fulfilled are EVIL TEMPTRESSES who
have been CONSORTING WITH THE DEVIL.
-Hypatia
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| User: "Thomas P." |
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| Title: Re: sex advice |
24 Aug 2003 12:50:27 PM |
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On 24 Aug 2003 05:42:14 -0700, (Bob
Crowley) wrote:
Mani Deli <mani@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<tffgkv047f0r27638vl151tudq7r8ovmec@4ax.com>...
On 23 Aug 2003 02:32:47 -0700, (Bob
Crowley) wrote:
Every age veers to one side or the other of liberalism and
conservatism.
and to utter stupidity.
What would you say of today's world, teetering on the brink of self
inflicted destruction via environmental, economic, military, political
and religious stupidity. Note that there are 4 other factors there.
"men are guilty of committing adultery with their own wives if they
look at them with lust."
Pope JP II
If you are married or have a girlfriend, is she a person, ie. a woman,
or a sex object?
Are those choices mutually exclusive?
Most men are products of their time, including today's atheists
inculturated with the scientific, materialistic vogue of their time.
So what's new?
The pope is a 12th century product.
AT least he swims against the current. Most of us just drift along
with it.
Doing his best in the struggle against reason.
Augustine was living through the collapse of a civilisation, the Roman
Empire which had endured almost 1000 years (although it was to endure
in Byzantium for another 1000 in a different form). Hence his morbid
pronouncements on women. And Augustine had been a womaniser himself
before conversion, and perhaps for some time after it. Therefore he
probably feared sexual temptation as it was probably his own single
greatest weakness.
Last I heard the pope was still alive.
Amazing how the Pope seems to be allied with the old Roman Empire.
Nobody in this thread did so. Why bring it up?
"Rome" in Revelation was a symbol of all that which stood against
Christianity in the world, especially the world system.
And later Christianity became part of the Imperial Administration. I
guess that means the Empire had changed its ways.
Which power
today has the label of the most powerful secular nation, with the
strongest military by far, enough ability in a single battle fleet to
destroy most nations, with multinationals which intefere daily in
other economies? If you had to denote the New Rome of today, which
power would you nominate, with all due respect?
What would be the point? Once again, nobody mentioned the Roman
Empire except you.
Thomas P.
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| User: "Clothaire" |
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| Title: Re: sex advice |
24 Aug 2003 03:33:01 PM |
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On 24 Aug 2003 05:42:14 -0700, (Bob
Crowley) wrote:
Mani Deli <mani@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<tffgkv047f0r27638vl151tudq7r8ovmec@4ax.com>...
On 23 Aug 2003 02:32:47 -0700, (Bob
Crowley) wrote:
Every age veers to one side or the other of liberalism and
conservatism.
and to utter stupidity.
What would you say of today's world, teetering on the brink of self
inflicted destruction via environmental, economic, military, political
and religious stupidity. Note that there are 4 other factors there.
"men are guilty of committing adultery with their own wives if they
look at them with lust."
Pope JP II
With me and my wife it was *lust* at first sight.
Clothaire #1392
"Elephants and women never forget."
anon
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| User: "Hypatia Kosh" |
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| Title: Re: thoughts for the god soaked |
25 Aug 2003 10:36:12 AM |
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LP <whirl_pool@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 19:56:24 GMT, Jeremy <dgeproject@hotmail.com> wrote:
Mani Deli wrote:
- The struggle between science and religion is Faith verses reason.
I would tend to disagree. I believe the struggle between science and
religion is a struggle between scientists and theologists/preachers.
There may be a struggle between science and "religion", but I do not see
a struggle between science and the Bible.
Contradictions are not permitted in science.
What the ***** are you off on about? Contradictions aren't permitted in
science? Ha! Mathematics itself is self-contradictory, the theoretical
framework of physics is rife with contradictions, and there are
numerous shall-we-say difficulties between different scientific
disciplines. Theories contradict each other, experiments contradict
each other, data contradicts, and scientists surely contradict. Yes,
science has an ever-growing body of generally agreed upon knowledge,
but it's also in the process of being perpetually overturned. Life is
just not easy.
-Hypatia <*> Kosh
--
They are a dying people; we should let them pass.
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| User: "LP" |
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| Title: Re: thoughts for the god soaked |
26 Aug 2003 01:33:26 AM |
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On 25 Aug 2003 08:36:12 -0700, (Hypatia Kosh) wrote:
LP <whirl_pool@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 19:56:24 GMT, Jeremy <dgeproject@hotmail.com> wrote:
Mani Deli wrote:
- The struggle between science and religion is Faith verses reason.
I would tend to disagree. I believe the struggle between science and
religion is a struggle between scientists and theologists/preachers.
There may be a struggle between science and "religion", but I do not see
a struggle between science and the Bible.
Contradictions are not permitted in science.
What the ***** are you off on about? Contradictions aren't permitted in
science? Ha! Mathematics itself is self-contradictory, the theoretical
framework of physics is rife with contradictions, and there are
numerous shall-we-say difficulties between different scientific
disciplines. Theories contradict each other, experiments contradict
each other, data contradicts, and scientists surely contradict. Yes,
science has an ever-growing body of generally agreed upon knowledge,
but it's also in the process of being perpetually overturned. Life is
just not easy.
-Hypatia <*> Kosh
I did not say that there are no contradiction in science, I said
that contradiction are not permitted. When a contradiction is found,
scientists will try to resolve the contradiction using scientific
methods. This is not done with the Bible because in order to resolve
the contradiction in the Bible the Bible would have to be rewritten.
Most Christians think the Bible shouldn't be rewritten any more than
it already has.
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| User: "Mani Deli" |
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| Title: thoughts for the god soaked-2 |
23 Aug 2003 11:46:36 PM |
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Never let the truth get in the way of a good story
Dogma thrives best where truth is suppressed.
Saints only fly for their disciples.
Cruel gods = cruel people.
One can not draw an unambiguous conclusion from an ambiguous premise.
Truth doesn't require faith
Faith; not wanting to know what's true. - Nietzsche
Reality doesn't go away because you stopped believing in it.
God is the mature man's Santa Claus
....no skill no art!
http://www3.sympatico.ca/manideli/
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| User: "Mani Deli" |
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| Title: The superstition business |
23 Sep 2003 12:17:08 AM |
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Superstition business corporations sell different brands of religion.
Competing brands try to use the best psychological advertising
techniques to sell a set of gods which they claim will only treat you
well for the exclusive allegiance to their products.
Successful branches of this oldest business must be able to keep you
frightened and repressed by filling your mind with guilt, threats of
torture along with comforting fairy tales which you are expected to
accept as reality. Religion salesmen will do their best to addict your
kids to consume there products well before they reach an age of
reason.
All superstition businesses need to convince customers that
questioning their origins, past business practices, its instruction
manuals and accounting practices will threaten their relationship with
them.
All require brand loyalty from faithful consumers who are led to
believe that they are part of a unique lot chosen for the favors of
the imaginary CEO. Good customers faithfully believe that life without
their favorite brand of religion is dangerous and that all other
religion corporations sell terribly inferior products which aren't
really backed by bona fide after-life insurance.
Religion is a crutch often used as a club.
Tired of Modern Art? See-
http://www3.sympatico.ca/manideli/
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| User: "onegod" |
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| Title: Re: The superstition business |
24 Sep 2003 06:50:53 AM |
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really backed by bona fide after-life insurance.
It might not be so bad.... Selling dreams. And placebo effect might impove
someone's lives.
I personally think churchs etc. encourage nonmaterialism etc. And i would
be impressed if head of it
wears Tshirt and jeans rather than some expensive robe and limo.
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| User: "alr" |
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| Title: Re: The superstition business |
25 Sep 2003 11:36:38 AM |
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"onegod" <spamone@msn.com> wrote in message news:<xyfcb.1734$T46.1097@twister.socal.rr.com>...
really backed by bona fide after-life insurance.
It might not be so bad.... Selling dreams. And placebo effect might impove
someone's lives.
I personally think churchs etc. encourage nonmaterialism etc. And i would
be impressed if head of it
wears Tshirt and jeans rather than some expensive robe and limo.
I agree that most christian churches these days are ok. There are some
I don't agree with their thinking but in general they try guide you on
the path to treating your self and everyone around you better. It
promotes trying to be a better person and to not use the way society
has gone down hill as an excuse for behaving badly and with out
morals. Sometimes I just don't get why people get so angry about it.
It's a guide line on how to live a good life. People just don't want
to hear some one tell them they are wrong. It's all about too much
pride. People also have to remember that humans are NOT perfect so
there are some people who are going to mess it up.
RELIGION IS MAN MADE....FAITH IS GOD.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: The superstition business |
26 Sep 2003 02:12:50 PM |
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onegod wrote:
really backed by bona fide after-life insurance.
It might not be so bad.... Selling dreams.
===>They say Martin Luther went against the Church
because of such an "insurance" being sold.
Nowadays they just tell you to put your money in
the basket. You don't even get a written "policy"
as the Church used to give. -- L.
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| User: "Terry Burns" |
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| Title: Re: The superstition business |
23 Sep 2003 08:20:29 AM |
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Are you on crack or something ?
"Mani Deli" <mani@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:hujvmvg8iefbr9no2qp3ogepi5ocsfuq69@4ax.com...
Superstition business corporations sell different brands of religion.
Competing brands try to use the best psychological advertising
techniques to sell a set of gods which they claim will only treat you
well for the exclusive allegiance to their products.
Successful branches of this oldest business must be able to keep you
frightened and repressed by filling your mind with guilt, threats of
torture along with comforting fairy tales which you are expected to
accept as reality. Religion salesmen will do their best to addict your
kids to consume there products well before they reach an age of
reason.
All superstition businesses need to convince customers that
questioning their origins, past business practices, its instruction
manuals and accounting practices will threaten their relationship with
them.
All require brand loyalty from faithful consumers who are led to
believe that they are part of a unique lot chosen for the favors of
the imaginary CEO. Good customers faithfully believe that life without
their favorite brand of religion is dangerous and that all other
religion corporations sell terribly inferior products which aren't
really backed by bona fide after-life insurance.
Religion is a crutch often used as a club.
Tired of Modern Art? See-
http://www3.sympatico.ca/manideli/
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| User: "David" |
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| Title: Re: The superstition business |
23 Sep 2003 12:08:10 PM |
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Terry Burns wrote:
"Mani Deli" <mani@sympatico.ca> wrote
Superstition business corporations sell different
brands of religion.....
[snipped for brevity}
Religion is a crutch often used as a club.
Are you on crack or something ?
Ah, you must be one of the superstitious.
--
David V.
Yosemite Llama Ranch
dave@TheLlamaRanch.com
http://www.TheLlamaRanch.com
UDP for WebTV
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| User: "Thomas P." |
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| Title: Re: thoughts for the god soaked |
23 Aug 2003 01:08:54 PM |
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On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 19:56:24 GMT, Jeremy <dgeproject@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Mani Deli wrote:
- The struggle between science and religion is Faith verses reason.
I would tend to disagree. I believe the struggle between science and
religion is a struggle between scientists and theologists/preachers.
Science is rejected by many religions when ever the data contradicts
some dogma.
There may be a struggle between science and "religion", but I do not see
a struggle between science and the Bible.
Not if the Bible is taken as an ancient collection of myths and
legends. The conflict exists if people insist that science has to
concur with their perceptions of what the Bible says. In short the
conflict exists.
I believe that when science and religion are in conflict you either have
bad science, bad religion, or both. I think history shows there has
been an whole lot of both.
The reality is that science has advanced only by struggling against
religion. The struggle continues to this day, with Churches doing
their best to destroy well established theories for no other reason
than that they conflict with religious dogma. Apparently the Middle
Ages has not completely died.
Thomas P.
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| User: "Jeremy" |
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| Title: Re: thoughts for the god soaked |
23 Aug 2003 03:32:35 PM |
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Thomas P. wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 19:56:24 GMT, Jeremy <dgeproject@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Mani Deli wrote:
- The struggle between science and religion is Faith verses reason.
I would tend to disagree. I believe the struggle between science and
religion is a struggle between scientists and theologists/preachers.
Science is rejected by many religions when ever the data contradicts
some dogma.
Very true. It is rejected by many _religions_.
There may be a struggle between science and "religion", but I do not see
a struggle between science and the Bible.
Not if the Bible is taken as an ancient collection of myths and
legends. The conflict exists if people insist that science has to
concur with their perceptions of what the Bible says. In short the
conflict exists.
If the Bible is the inspired word of God, and God created the world,
than the Bible would not contradict the world that was created by God.
I believe that when science and religion are in conflict you either have
bad science, bad religion, or both. I think history shows there has
been an whole lot of both.
The reality is that science has advanced only by struggling against
religion. The struggle continues to this day, with Churches doing
their best to destroy well established theories for no other reason
than that they conflict with religious dogma. Apparently the Middle
Ages has not completely died.
I know, The religious leaders of that time did quite a bit of time.
Again, they were _religious_ leaders. They wouldn't even let the common
man read the Bible. They wouldn't let the book be translated into other
languages.
--- Jeremy
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| User: "Jeremy" |
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| Title: Re: thoughts for the god soaked |
23 Aug 2003 08:41:31 PM |
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Thomas P. wrote:
- The struggle between science and religion is Faith verses reason.
I would tend to disagree. I believe the struggle between science and
religion is a struggle between scientists and theologists/preachers.
Science is rejected by many religions when ever the data contradicts
some dogma.
Very true. It is rejected by many _religions_.
Then your statement was wrong. Furthermore Christianity is included
in that "many religions".
But, that is not the Bible.
There may be a struggle between science and "religion", but I do not see
a struggle between science and the Bible.
Not if the Bible is taken as an ancient collection of myths and
legends. The conflict exists if people insist that science has to
concur with their perceptions of what the Bible says. In short the
conflict exists.
If the Bible is the inspired word of God, and God created the world,
than the Bible would not contradict the world that was created by God.
Exactly. You now have proof that the Bible is not the inspired word
of God. Congratulations.
I do? Where was that posted?
I believe that when science and religion are in conflict you either have
bad science, bad religion, or both. I think history shows there has
been an whole lot of both.
The reality is that science has advanced only by struggling against
religion. The struggle continues to this day, with Churches doing
their best to destroy well established theories for no other reason
than that they conflict with religious dogma. Apparently the Middle
Ages has not completely died.
I know, The religious leaders of that time did quite a bit of time.
Again, they were _religious_ leaders.
The religious leaders being the ones who defined what religion was for
their followers.
Exactly. They were following these leaders, because they didn't have
the Bible to read for themselves. The Religious and Political leaders
had everything under their control.
They wouldn't even let the common
man read the Bible. They wouldn't let the book be translated into other
languages.
Now that we have read the Bible and know a little about the world, we
know that the Bible conflicts with science.
We do? Where have you seen this?
--- Jeremy
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| User: "Mani Deli" |
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| Title: Re: thoughts for the god soaked |
23 Aug 2003 11:21:24 PM |
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On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 01:41:31 GMT, Jeremy <dgeproject@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Thomas P. wrote:
Now that we have read the Bible and know a little about the world, we
know that the Bible conflicts with science.
We do? Where have you seen this?
Starting right on page one.
Bet J. avoids this page.
....no skill no art!
http://www3.sympatico.ca/manideli/
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