| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Ultra" |
| Date: |
04 Jan 2008 09:50:43 PM |
| Object: |
Evil - outweighed by free will |
Subject line says it all.
People claim God does not exist because he/she/it would not allow evil in
the world. The fact of the matter is that if there is any evil, it is
outweighed by the fact the we have free will.
That there is evil in the world does not mean there is no God.
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Evil - outweighed by free will |
05 Jan 2008 07:09:12 PM |
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"Dag Yo" <sir_roko2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:64101057-c097-419e-b509-9acc5b0422dc@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Thats pretty clear and succinct. But since I always feel like
splitting hairs I feel I must point out that the "possible gods" that
are still allowed still might be wholly desirable, they just are
definitely not the same as the Christian God being argued for.
Grrr. I will grudgingly grant that. ;-)
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
http://www.ashenempires.com
On Jan 5, 1:45 am, "Denis Loubet" <dlou...@io.com> wrote:
"Ultra" <ul...@ultra.ultra> wrote in message
news:13ntvkmjnjs7l91@news.supernews.com...
Subject line says it all.
People claim God does not exist because he/she/it would not allow evil
in
the world. The fact of the matter is that if there is any evil, it is
outweighed by the fact the we have free will.
First you have to establish that we have free will, or you're merely
baseing
the existence of one unevidenced thing -- a god -- by appeal to another
unevidenced thing -- free will.
Second, if you manage to establish the existence of free will, then
explain
the value of such a thing. What is it good for?
For instance, an event from the bible: If the god issues a prophecy that
a
specific individual will deny the god three times, of what possible value
is
free will if the individual cannot then act contrary to the prophecy?
That there is evil in the world does not mean there is no God.
True, but the possible gods it allows to exist is far from desireable.
--
Denis Loubet
dlou...@io.comhttp://www.io.com/~dloubethttp://www.ashenempires.com
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| User: "Dag Yo" |
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| Title: Re: Evil - outweighed by free will |
04 Jan 2008 10:25:27 PM |
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That there is evil in the world does not mean there is no God.
Agreed. The presence of evil in the world does not preclude the
possibility of a God.
It does however preclude the possibility of an omnipotent,
omnipresent, and omni-benevolent God.
[and take a gander at this: an omnipresent God precludes the
possibility of free will]
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| User: "Ultra" |
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| Title: Re: Evil - outweighed by free will |
04 Jan 2008 10:29:56 PM |
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"Dag Yo" <sir_roko2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6cfaf925-5a5e-4dd7-99a5-558acadb25d3@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
That there is evil in the world does not mean there is no God.
Agreed. The presence of evil in the world does not preclude the
possibility of a God.
It does however preclude the possibility of an omnipotent,
omnipresent, and omni-benevolent God.
Not true. God allows the evil caused by free-will because the overall
goodness exceeds what would be case if there was no free-will.
[and take a gander at this: an omnipresent God precludes the
possibility of free will]
There is no basis for this statement.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Evil - outweighed by free will |
07 Jan 2008 09:53:19 AM |
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"Ultra" <ultra@ultra.ultra> wrote in message
news:13nu1u8is9lut35@news.supernews.com...
"Dag Yo" <sir_roko2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6cfaf925-5a5e-4dd7-99a5-558acadb25d3@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
That there is evil in the world does not mean there is no God.
Agreed. The presence of evil in the world does not preclude the
possibility of a God.
It does however preclude the possibility of an omnipotent,
omnipresent, and omni-benevolent God.
Not true. God allows
What god? Got any evidence he/she/it exists?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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| User: "Greywolf" |
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| Title: Re: Evil - outweighed by free will |
05 Jan 2008 04:18:49 AM |
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"Ultra" <ultra@ultra.ultra> wrote in message
news:13nu1u8is9lut35@news.supernews.com...
"Dag Yo" <sir_roko2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6cfaf925-5a5e-4dd7-99a5-558acadb25d3@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
That there is evil in the world does not mean there is no God.
Agreed. The presence of evil in the world does not preclude the
possibility of a God.
It does however preclude the possibility of an omnipotent,
omnipresent, and omni-benevolent God.
Not true. God allows the evil caused by free-will because the overall
goodness exceeds what would be case if there was no free-will.
You're missing the point that your 'God' isn't just 'allowing' the 'evil'
caused by free-will to simply exist: He *created* it. There's no escaping
that fact if one admits evil exists. And that makes him something far beyond
just a mere 'EVIL' God. Mankind hasn't yet come up with a word to properly
describe how so beyond evil such an act of creation was. Your 'God' didn't
have to do such a monstrous thing. He had the 'Free-Will' *not* to.
[and take a gander at this: an omnipresent God precludes the
possibility of free will]
There is no basis for this statement.
It precludes a 'God' from 'answering prayers' because an omniscient 'God'
would already know the future, 'plan' it in fact. Your 'God' would not allow
anything to occur in all of the past, present, or future if he chose not to
allow it. Therefore, it goes without saying, and using Adam & Eve as an
example, 'God' *wanted*, even planned 'Eve' to partake of the 'forbidden
fruit' (Why do you think the 'forbidden fruit' was in such close proximity
to the treacherously duped, supernaturally beguiled, unwitting pair?) 'God'
absolutely *knew* what would happen and did nothing to prevent it because he
planned it that way. He could have immediately 'forgave' the pair as well,
you know. But chose not to. And you know the rest of the man-fabricated
story. And how about 'Judas'? Did he have the 'free-will' NOT to betray
Jesus? And how about the Pharaoh of Exodus 10:20? Whoa! Somebody negated his
'free-will! Have any idea who that might have been? And look at Saul of
Tarsus, Jesus-God transformed him into a hardcore 'Jesus-God' believer and
not just a 'Yahweh' minus a 'Son' believing one. Now why couldn't he do a
similar thing for *everyone* on the planet? Because he didn't want to,
that's why. He deliberately chose to have people end up suffering in Hell
for all of eternity (as opposed to a mere century or two) instead. OOOooooo.
What a pathetic excuse for a 'God'. He deserves quite the spanking, you
know. You'd think our ancestors could have 'created' a far more 'loving',
less sadistic imaginary one, don't you think?
Go ahead and believe your beliefs if you feel compelled to. And stay away
from the atheists if our lack of belief grates on you excessively. Remember,
all we have, really, is a difference of opinion. Don't let your side turn
that into something this nation will regret beyond measure.
Greywolf
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| User: "Terry Austin" |
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| Title: Re: Evil - outweighed by free will |
04 Jan 2008 11:59:20 PM |
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"Ultra" <ultra@ultra.ultra> wrote in news:13nu1u8is9lut35
@news.supernews.com:
"Dag Yo" <sir_roko2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6cfaf925-5a5e-4dd7-99a5-558acadb25d3@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
That there is evil in the world does not mean there is no God.
Agreed. The presence of evil in the world does not preclude the
possibility of a God.
It does however preclude the possibility of an omnipotent,
omnipresent, and omni-benevolent God.
Not true. God allows the evil caused by free-will because the overall
goodness exceeds what would be case if there was no free-will.
I believe the real argument lies in the fact that this life is only
temporary. The next one is eternal. What happens in this life is relevant
only in how it affects the next.
The atheists *can't* answer that one, because they *can't* grasp the idea
that their assumption there is no afterlife can't be used to prove itself.
In that, they are indistinguishable from the theists who can't grasp that
their assumption that God exists cannot prove that God exists.
[and take a gander at this: an omnipresent God precludes the
possibility of free will]
There is no basis for this statement.
Actually, there is. God is inherently a contradiction. From any sane, human
perspective, an all-knowing, all-powerful being cannot exist, because the
two qualities are mutually exclusive. That's why God is a diety. He gets to
do things we can't understand.
--
Terry Austin
Beware the other head of science. It bites.
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| User: "Dag Yo" |
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| Title: Re: Evil - outweighed by free will |
05 Jan 2008 12:51:47 AM |
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Actually, there is. God is inherently a contradiction. From any sane, human
perspective, an all-knowing, all-powerful being cannot exist, because the
two qualities are mutually exclusive. That's why God is a diety. He gets to
do things we can't understand.
No they aren't "mutually exclusive" you nitwit. Mutually exclusive
aspects are ones that contradict one another -- they would have to
literally counteract the effects of the other aspect to be mutually
exclusive.
For instance, a god that is exactly 5 feet tall cannot be exactly 6
feet tall those are mutually exclusive qualities.
Do you understand why this is the case Terry?
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| User: "Terry Austin" |
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| Title: Re: Evil - outweighed by free will |
05 Jan 2008 12:10:20 PM |
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Dag Yo <sir_roko2@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:09f2c0c0-a146-4094-858c-fc189d40803a@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
Actually, there is. God is inherently a contradiction. From any sane,
human perspective, an all-knowing, all-powerful being cannot exist,
because the two qualities are mutually exclusive. That's why God is a
diety. He gets to do things we can't understand.
No they aren't "mutually exclusive" you nitwit.
Yes, retard,t hey are.
Mutually exclusive
aspects are ones that contradict one another -- they would have to
literally counteract the effects of the other aspect to be mutually
exclusive.
Which, if fact, they do, retard. If you *know* everything, you know what
you will do. If you can *do* everything, you can do *anything*, including
change your mind and do something you didn't know you would do. Mutually
exclusive.
For instance, a god that is exactly 5 feet tall cannot be exactly 6
feet tall those are mutually exclusive qualities.
Do you understand why this is the case Terry?
I understand that you're a retard. No shame in that. It's your parents'
fault, really, for breeding with defective DNA.
--
Terry Austin
Beware the other head of science. It bites.
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| User: "Meteorite Debris" |
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| Title: Re: Evil - outweighed by free will |
05 Jan 2008 04:36:37 PM |
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Last time that great scribe Terry Austin
<terry.notaniceperson@gmail.com> chipped away at his/her stone these
gems of wisdom for posterity ...
The atheists *can't* answer that one, because they *can't* grasp the idea
that their assumption there is no afterlife can't be used to prove itself.
Lie! The onus of proof is on the one asserting there is an afterlife.
That the effects of brain activity can continue to exist without a
brain. To prove that consciousness is o9ther than biologically emergent.
I'm beginning to think that TA is a theist dressed in agnostic drag as a
decoy.
--
Remove both YOUR_SHOES before replying
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2009
Apatriotism Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/apatriotism
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make
you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
.
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| User: "Apostate" |
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| Title: Re: Evil - outweighed by free will |
05 Jan 2008 05:47:54 PM |
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On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 09:06:37 +1030, Meteorite Debris <epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOESaapt.net.au> wrote:
Last time that great scribe Terry Austin
<terry.notaniceperson@gmail.com> chipped away at his/her stone these
gems of wisdom for posterity ...
The atheists *can't* answer that one, because they *can't* grasp the idea
that their assumption there is no afterlife can't be used to prove itself.
Lie! The onus of proof is on the one asserting there is an afterlife.
That the effects of brain activity can continue to exist without a
brain. To prove that consciousness is o9ther than biologically emergent.
I'm beginning to think that TA is a theist dressed in agnostic drag as a
decoy.
No, that doesn't give sufficient credit to what he's going to admit, sooner or later. He
doesn't give crap I about any topic in this ng, from any perspective. He's a career troll.
He came to see if he can still be an *****. Low self-esteem breeds low ambitions.
--
Apostate a.a. #1931
..sig currently undergoing maintenance
.
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| User: "Terry Austin" |
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| Title: Re: Evil - outweighed by free will |
05 Jan 2008 09:16:12 PM |
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Apostate <godless.*****@yeehaw.org.invalid> wrote in
news:rj50o3djn9urads0p773qre6hssajhn9dd@4ax.com:
On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 09:06:37 +1030, Meteorite Debris
<epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOESaapt.net.au> wrote:
Last time that great scribe Terry Austin
<terry.notaniceperson@gmail.com> chipped away at his/her stone these
gems of wisdom for posterity ...
The atheists *can't* answer that one, because they *can't* grasp the
idea that their assumption there is no afterlife can't be used to
prove itself.
Lie! The onus of proof is on the one asserting there is an afterlife.
That the effects of brain activity can continue to exist without a
brain. To prove that consciousness is o9ther than biologically
emergent.
I'm beginning to think that TA is a theist dressed in agnostic drag as
a decoy.
No, that doesn't give sufficient credit to what he's going to admit,
sooner or later. He doesn't give crap I about any topic in this ng,
from any perspective. He's a career troll. He came to see if he can
still be an *****. Low self-esteem breeds low ambitions.
And you're so hooked you *can't* stop talking *about* me. You're my *****.
Again. You must like it on my hook.
--
Terry Austin
"Dude, we're all your *****, but only Ken's wearing the juice."
- tussock
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| User: "Meteorite Debris" |
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| Title: Re: Evil - outweighed by free will |
05 Jan 2008 04:29:06 PM |
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Last time that great scribe Terry Austin
<terry.notaniceperson@gmail.com> chipped away at his/her stone these
gems of wisdom for posterity ...
What happens in this life is relevant
only in how it affects the next.
What happened to the agnostic?
--
Remove both YOUR_SHOES before replying
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2009
Apatriotism Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/apatriotism
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make
you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
.
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| User: "Apostate" |
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| Title: Re: Evil - outweighed by free will |
05 Jan 2008 12:38:14 AM |
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On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 05:59:20 -0000, Terry Austin <terry.notaniceperson@gmail.com> wrote:
"Ultra" <ultra@ultra.ultra> wrote in news:13nu1u8is9lut35
@news.supernews.com:
"Dag Yo" <sir_roko2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6cfaf925-5a5e-4dd7-99a5-558acadb25d3@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
That there is evil in the world does not mean there is no God.
Agreed. The presence of evil in the world does not preclude the
possibility of a God.
It does however preclude the possibility of an omnipotent,
omnipresent, and omni-benevolent God.
Not true. God allows the evil caused by free-will because the overall
goodness exceeds what would be case if there was no free-will.
I believe the real argument lies in the fact that this life is only
temporary. The next one is eternal.
You've claimed, upthread, that only agnosticism is rational. How does this square with
supposing an afterlife, as though it were a given? (If that isn't your position, you might
want to be careful how you use "fact" in a sentence. Use of the conditional and the
subjunctive might help.)
What happens in this life is relevant
only in how it affects the next.
The atheists *can't* answer that one, because they *can't* grasp the idea
that their assumption there is no afterlife can't be used to prove itself.
In that, they are indistinguishable from the theists who can't grasp that
their assumption that God exists cannot prove that God exists.
--
Apostate a.a. #1931
..sig currently undergoing maintenance
.
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| User: "Terry Austin" |
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| Title: Re: Evil - outweighed by free will |
05 Jan 2008 12:05:39 PM |
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Apostate <godless.*****@yeehaw.org.invalid> wrote in
news:n69un39quct82spl902kfegempea2jca5s@4ax.com:
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 05:59:20 -0000, Terry Austin
<terry.notaniceperson@gmail.com> wrote:
"Ultra" <ultra@ultra.ultra> wrote in news:13nu1u8is9lut35
@news.supernews.com:
"Dag Yo" <sir_roko2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6cfaf925-5a5e-4dd7-99a5-558acadb25d3@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com
...
That there is evil in the world does not mean there is no God.
Agreed. The presence of evil in the world does not preclude the
possibility of a God.
It does however preclude the possibility of an omnipotent,
omnipresent, and omni-benevolent God.
Not true. God allows the evil caused by free-will because the
overall goodness exceeds what would be case if there was no
free-will.
I believe the real argument lies in the fact that this life is only
temporary. The next one is eternal.
You've claimed, upthread, that only agnosticism is rational.
That is correct.
How does
this square with supposing an afterlife, as though it were a given?
I don't suppose an afterlife. I merely explain the theist view. Unlike
you, I choose to reject Christianity based on what it actually
represents, instead of my midnight wanking over what I wish they would
claim.
(If that isn't your position, you might want to be careful how you use
"fact" in a sentence. Use of the conditional and the subjunctive
might help.)
Since there are so many people here who are too fucking illiterate to
follow even a little bit of subtlty.
--
Terry Austin
Beware the other head of science. It bites.
.
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| User: "Meteorite Debris" |
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| Title: Re: Evil - outweighed by free will |
05 Jan 2008 04:39:58 PM |
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Last time that great scribe Terry Austin
<terry.notaniceperson@gmail.com> chipped away at his/her stone these
gems of wisdom for posterity ...
Apostate <godless.*****@yeehaw.org.invalid> wrote in
news:n69un39quct82spl902kfegempea2jca5s@4ax.com:
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 05:59:20 -0000, Terry Austin
<terry.notaniceperson@gmail.com> wrote:
"Ultra" <ultra@ultra.ultra> wrote in news:13nu1u8is9lut35
@news.supernews.com:
"Dag Yo" <sir_roko2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6cfaf925-5a5e-4dd7-99a5-558acadb25d3@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com
...
That there is evil in the world does not mean there is no God.
Agreed. The presence of evil in the world does not preclude the
possibility of a God.
It does however preclude the possibility of an omnipotent,
omnipresent, and omni-benevolent God.
Not true. God allows the evil caused by free-will because the
overall goodness exceeds what would be case if there was no
free-will.
I believe the real argument lies in the fact that this life is only
temporary. The next one is eternal.
You've claimed, upthread, that only agnosticism is rational.
That is correct.
How does
this square with supposing an afterlife, as though it were a given?
I don't suppose an afterlife. I merely explain the theist view. Unlike
you, I choose to reject Christianity based on what it actually
represents, instead of my midnight wanking over what I wish they would
claim.
(If that isn't your position, you might want to be careful how you use
"fact" in a sentence. Use of the conditional and the subjunctive
might help.)
Since there are so many people here who are too fucking illiterate to
follow even a little bit of subtlty.
Terry, you're a theist dressed in agnostic drag for spoiling purposes.
--
Remove both YOUR_SHOES before replying
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2009
Apatriotism Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/apatriotism
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make
you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
.
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| User: "Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy" |
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| Title: Re: Evil - outweighed by free will |
06 Jan 2008 03:38:29 PM |
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Meteorite Debris <epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOESaapt.net.au> wrote in
news:MPG.21eaab4484d72f479898e6@news.ade.connect.com.au:
Last time that great scribe Terry Austin
<terry.notaniceperson@gmail.com> chipped away at his/her stone
these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
Apostate <godless.*****@yeehaw.org.invalid> wrote in
news:n69un39quct82spl902kfegempea2jca5s@4ax.com:
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 05:59:20 -0000, Terry Austin
<terry.notaniceperson@gmail.com> wrote:
"Ultra" <ultra@ultra.ultra> wrote in news:13nu1u8is9lut35
@news.supernews.com:
"Dag Yo" <sir_roko2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6cfaf925-5a5e-4dd7-99a5-558acadb25d3@v4g2000hsf.googleg
roups.com ...
That there is evil in the world does not mean there is no
God.
Agreed. The presence of evil in the world does not
preclude the possibility of a God.
It does however preclude the possibility of an omnipotent,
omnipresent, and omni-benevolent God.
Not true. God allows the evil caused by free-will because
the overall goodness exceeds what would be case if there
was no free-will.
I believe the real argument lies in the fact that this life
is only temporary. The next one is eternal.
You've claimed, upthread, that only agnosticism is rational.
That is correct.
How does
this square with supposing an afterlife, as though it were a
given?
I don't suppose an afterlife. I merely explain the theist view.
Unlike you, I choose to reject Christianity based on what it
actually represents, instead of my midnight wanking over what I
wish they would claim.
(If that isn't your position, you might want to be careful
how you use "fact" in a sentence. Use of the conditional and
the subjunctive might help.)
Since there are so many people here who are too fucking
illiterate to follow even a little bit of subtlty.
Terry, you're a theist dressed in agnostic drag for spoiling
purposes.
Liar.
--
Terry Austin
"There's no law west of the internet."
- Nick Stump
.
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| User: "Meteorite Debris" |
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| Title: Re: Evil - outweighed by free will |
07 Jan 2008 01:39:59 AM |
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Last time that great scribe Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
<terry.notaniceperson@gmail.com> chipped away at his/her stone these
gems of wisdom for posterity ...
Meteorite Debris <epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOESaapt.net.au> wrote in
news:MPG.21eaab4484d72f479898e6@news.ade.connect.com.au:
Last time that great scribe Terry Austin
<terry.notaniceperson@gmail.com> chipped away at his/her stone
these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
Apostate <godless.*****@yeehaw.org.invalid> wrote in
news:n69un39quct82spl902kfegempea2jca5s@4ax.com:
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 05:59:20 -0000, Terry Austin
<terry.notaniceperson@gmail.com> wrote:
"Ultra" <ultra@ultra.ultra> wrote in news:13nu1u8is9lut35
@news.supernews.com:
"Dag Yo" <sir_roko2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6cfaf925-5a5e-4dd7-99a5-558acadb25d3@v4g2000hsf.googleg
roups.com ...
That there is evil in the world does not mean there is no
God.
Agreed. The presence of evil in the world does not
preclude the possibility of a God.
It does however preclude the possibility of an omnipotent,
omnipresent, and omni-benevolent God.
Not true. God allows the evil caused by free-will because
the overall goodness exceeds what would be case if there
was no free-will.
I believe the real argument lies in the fact that this life
is only temporary. The next one is eternal.
You've claimed, upthread, that only agnosticism is rational.
That is correct.
How does
this square with supposing an afterlife, as though it were a
given?
I don't suppose an afterlife. I merely explain the theist view.
Unlike you, I choose to reject Christianity based on what it
actually represents, instead of my midnight wanking over what I
wish they would claim.
(If that isn't your position, you might want to be careful
how you use "fact" in a sentence. Use of the conditional and
the subjunctive might help.)
Since there are so many people here who are too fucking
illiterate to follow even a little bit of subtlty.
Terry, you're a theist dressed in agnostic drag for spoiling
purposes.
Liar.
You believe in an afterlife.
--
Remove both YOUR_SHOES before replying
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2009
Apatriotism Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/apatriotism
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make
you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
.
|
|
|
| User: "Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy" |
|
| Title: Re: Evil - outweighed by free will |
07 Jan 2008 11:14:19 AM |
|
|
Meteorite Debris <epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOESaapt.net.au> wrote in
news:MPG.21ec7b514b034c659898f2@news.ade.connect.com.au:
Last time that great scribe Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
<terry.notaniceperson@gmail.com> chipped away at his/her stone
these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
Meteorite Debris <epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOESaapt.net.au> wrote in
news:MPG.21eaab4484d72f479898e6@news.ade.connect.com.au:
Last time that great scribe Terry Austin
<terry.notaniceperson@gmail.com> chipped away at his/her
stone these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
Apostate <godless.*****@yeehaw.org.invalid> wrote in
news:n69un39quct82spl902kfegempea2jca5s@4ax.com:
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 05:59:20 -0000, Terry Austin
<terry.notaniceperson@gmail.com> wrote:
"Ultra" <ultra@ultra.ultra> wrote in news:13nu1u8is9lut35
@news.supernews.com:
"Dag Yo" <sir_roko2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6cfaf925-5a5e-4dd7-99a5-558acadb25d3@v4g2000hsf.goog
leg roups.com ...
That there is evil in the world does not mean there is
no God.
Agreed. The presence of evil in the world does not
preclude the possibility of a God.
It does however preclude the possibility of an
omnipotent, omnipresent, and omni-benevolent God.
Not true. God allows the evil caused by free-will
because the overall goodness exceeds what would be case
if there was no free-will.
I believe the real argument lies in the fact that this
life is only temporary. The next one is eternal.
You've claimed, upthread, that only agnosticism is
rational.
That is correct.
How does
this square with supposing an afterlife, as though it were
a given?
I don't suppose an afterlife. I merely explain the theist
view. Unlike you, I choose to reject Christianity based on
what it actually represents, instead of my midnight wanking
over what I wish they would claim.
(If that isn't your position, you might want to be careful
how you use "fact" in a sentence. Use of the conditional
and the subjunctive might help.)
Since there are so many people here who are too fucking
illiterate to follow even a little bit of subtlty.
Terry, you're a theist dressed in agnostic drag for spoiling
purposes.
Liar.
You believe in an afterlife.
Liar.
--
Terry Austin
"There's no law west of the internet."
- Nick Stump
.
|
|
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| User: "Meteorite Debris" |
|
| Title: Re: Evil - outweighed by free will |
07 Jan 2008 06:31:23 PM |
|
|
Last time that great scribe Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
<terry.notaniceperson@gmail.com> chipped away at his/her stone these
gems of wisdom for posterity ...
Meteorite Debris <epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOESaapt.net.au> wrote in
news:MPG.21ec7b514b034c659898f2@news.ade.connect.com.au:
Last time that great scribe Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
<terry.notaniceperson@gmail.com> chipped away at his/her stone
these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
Meteorite Debris <epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOESaapt.net.au> wrote in
news:MPG.21eaab4484d72f479898e6@news.ade.connect.com.au:
Last time that great scribe Terry Austin
<terry.notaniceperson@gmail.com> chipped away at his/her
stone these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
Apostate <godless.*****@yeehaw.org.invalid> wrote in
news:n69un39quct82spl902kfegempea2jca5s@4ax.com:
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 05:59:20 -0000, Terry Austin
<terry.notaniceperson@gmail.com> wrote:
"Ultra" <ultra@ultra.ultra> wrote in news:13nu1u8is9lut35
@news.supernews.com:
"Dag Yo" <sir_roko2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6cfaf925-5a5e-4dd7-99a5-558acadb25d3@v4g2000hsf.goog
leg roups.com ...
That there is evil in the world does not mean there is
no God.
Agreed. The presence of evil in the world does not
preclude the possibility of a God.
It does however preclude the possibility of an
omnipotent, omnipresent, and omni-benevolent God.
Not true. God allows the evil caused by free-will
because the overall goodness exceeds what would be case
if there was no free-will.
I believe the real argument lies in the fact that this
life is only temporary. The next one is eternal.
You've claimed, upthread, that only agnosticism is
rational.
That is correct.
How does
this square with supposing an afterlife, as though it were
a given?
I don't suppose an afterlife. I merely explain the theist
view. Unlike you, I choose to reject Christianity based on
what it actually represents, instead of my midnight wanking
over what I wish they would claim.
(If that isn't your position, you might want to be careful
how you use "fact" in a sentence. Use of the conditional
and the subjunctive might help.)
Since there are so many people here who are too fucking
illiterate to follow even a little bit of subtlty.
Terry, you're a theist dressed in agnostic drag for spoiling
purposes.
Liar.
You believe in an afterlife.
Liar.
Message from discussion Evil - outweighed by free will
View parsed - Show only message text
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From: Meteorite Debris <epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOESaapt.net.au>
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Evil - outweighed by free will
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 08:59:06 +1030
Organization: Customer of AAPT Pty Ltd
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <MPG.21eaa8b072315cde9898e4@news.ade.connect.com.au>
References: <13ntvkmjnjs7l91@news.supernews.com> <6cfaf925-5a5e-4dd7-
99a5-558acadb25d3@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> <13nu1u8is9lut35
@news.supernews.com> <Xns9A1BDFAF354B4taustingmail@216.168.3.64>
Reply-To: epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOESaapt.net.au
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2008 22:29:15 GMT)
X-Complaints-To:
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 22:29:15 +0000 (UTC)
User-Agent: MicroPlanet-Gravity/2.60.2060
Last time that great scribe Terry Austin
<terry.notaniceper...@gmail.com> chipped away at his/her stone these
gems of wisdom for posterity ...
What happens in this life is relevant
only in how it affects the next.
What happened to the agnostic?
--
Remove both YOUR_SHOES before replying
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2009
Apatriotism Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/apatriotism
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make
you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
--
Remove both YOUR_SHOES before replying
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2009
Apatriotism Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/apatriotism
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make
you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
--
Remove both YOUR_SHOES before replying
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2009
Apatriotism Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/apatriotism
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make
you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
.
|
|
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| User: "Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy" |
|
| Title: Re: Evil - outweighed by free will |
07 Jan 2008 06:53:21 PM |
|
|
Meteorite Debris <epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOESaapt.net.au> wrote in
news:MPG.21ed68608d98c4c59898f5@news.ade.connect.com.au:
Last time that great scribe Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
<terry.notaniceperson@gmail.com> chipped away at his/her stone
these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
Meteorite Debris <epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOESaapt.net.au> wrote in
news:MPG.21ec7b514b034c659898f2@news.ade.connect.com.au:
Last time that great scribe Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
<terry.notaniceperson@gmail.com> chipped away at his/her
stone these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
Meteorite Debris <epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOESaapt.net.au> wrote
in news:MPG.21eaab4484d72f479898e6@news.ade.connect.com.au:
Last time that great scribe Terry Austin
<terry.notaniceperson@gmail.com> chipped away at his/her
stone these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
Apostate <godless.*****@yeehaw.org.invalid> wrote in
news:n69un39quct82spl902kfegempea2jca5s@4ax.com:
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 05:59:20 -0000, Terry Austin
<terry.notaniceperson@gmail.com> wrote:
"Ultra" <ultra@ultra.ultra> wrote in
news:13nu1u8is9lut35 @news.supernews.com:
"Dag Yo" <sir_roko2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6cfaf925-5a5e-4dd7-99a5-558acadb25d3@v4g2000hsf.g
oog leg roups.com ...
That there is evil in the world does not mean there
is no God.
Agreed. The presence of evil in the world does not
preclude the possibility of a God.
It does however preclude the possibility of an
omnipotent, omnipresent, and omni-benevolent God.
Not true. God allows the evil caused by free-will
because the overall goodness exceeds what would be
case if there was no free-will.
I believe the real argument lies in the fact that this
life is only temporary. The next one is eternal.
You've claimed, upthread, that only agnosticism is
rational.
That is correct.
How does
this square with supposing an afterlife, as though it
were a given?
I don't suppose an afterlife. I merely explain the theist
view. Unlike you, I choose to reject Christianity based
on what it actually represents, instead of my midnight
wanking over what I wish they would claim.
(If that isn't your position, you might want to be
careful how you use "fact" in a sentence. Use of the
conditional and the subjunctive might help.)
Since there are so many people here who are too fucking
illiterate to follow even a little bit of subtlty.
Terry, you're a theist dressed in agnostic drag for
spoiling purposes.
Liar.
You believe in an afterlife.
Liar.
Message from discussion Evil - outweighed by free will
Indeed, I was explaining the theist view.
Now, you retarded, masturbating, ***** sucking liar, where did I
profess it was *my* view?
Fucking retard. Liar. As usual. Atheist *always* end up retreating
to *lies*, when cornered with how fucking *stupid* they are? You
are *exactly* like the theists. Completely indistinguishable in any
way. You're part of the reason Landover Baptist Church is so funny.
View parsed - Show only message text
Path: g2news1.google.com!news2.google.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!
news.linkpendium.com!news.linkpendium.com!pit-transit.telstra.net
!pit-
in1.telstra.net!news.telstra.net!news-south.connect.com.au!not-fo
r-mail From: Meteorite Debris
<epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOESaapt.net.au> Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Evil - outweighed by free will
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 08:59:06 +1030
Organization: Customer of AAPT Pty Ltd
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <MPG.21eaa8b072315cde9898e4@news.ade.connect.com.au>
References: <13ntvkmjnjs7l91@news.supernews.com>
<6cfaf925-5a5e-4dd7-
99a5-558acadb25d3@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> <13nu1u8is9lut35
@news.supernews.com> <Xns9A1BDFAF354B4taustingmail@216.168.3.64>
Reply-To: epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOESaapt.net.au
NNTP-Posting-Host: c-61-68-233-59.ade.connect.net.au
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15"
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X-Trace: news-01.bur.connect.com.au 1199572155 7180 61.68.233.59
(5 Jan 2008 22:29:15 GMT)
X-Complaints-To:
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 22:29:15 +0000 (UTC)
User-Agent: MicroPlanet-Gravity/2.60.2060
Last time that great scribe Terry Austin
<terry.notaniceper...@gmail.com> chipped away at his/her stone
these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
What happens in this life is relevant
only in how it affects the next.
What happened to the agnostic?
--
Terry Austin
"There's no law west of the internet."
- Nick Stump
.
|
|
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| User: "Meteorite Debris" |
|
| Title: Re: Evil - outweighed by free will |
09 Jan 2008 11:41:31 PM |
|
|
Last time that great scribe Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
<terry.notaniceperson@gmail.com> chipped away at his/her stone these
gems of wisdom for posterity ...
Meteorite Debris <epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOESaapt.net.au> wrote in
news:MPG.21ed68608d98c4c59898f5@news.ade.connect.com.au:
Last time that great scribe Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
<terry.notaniceperson@gmail.com> chipped away at his/her stone
these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
Meteorite Debris <epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOESaapt.net.au> wrote in
news:MPG.21ec7b514b034c659898f2@news.ade.connect.com.au:
Last time that great scribe Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
<terry.notaniceperson@gmail.com> chipped away at his/her
stone these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
Meteorite Debris <epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOESaapt.net.au> wrote
in news:MPG.21eaab4484d72f479898e6@news.ade.connect.com.au:
Last time that great scribe Terry Austin
<terry.notaniceperson@gmail.com> chipped away at his/her
stone these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
Apostate <godless.*****@yeehaw.org.invalid> wrote in
news:n69un39quct82spl902kfegempea2jca5s@4ax.com:
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 05:59:20 -0000, Terry Austin
<terry.notaniceperson@gmail.com> wrote:
"Ultra" <ultra@ultra.ultra> wrote in
news:13nu1u8is9lut35 @news.supernews.com:
"Dag Yo" <sir_roko2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6cfaf925-5a5e-4dd7-99a5-558acadb25d3@v4g2000hsf.g
oog leg roups.com ...
That there is evil in the world does not mean there
is no God.
Agreed. The presence of evil in the world does not
preclude the possibility of a God.
It does however preclude the possibility of an
omnipotent, omnipresent, and omni-benevolent God.
Not true. God allows the evil caused by free-will
because the overall goodness exceeds what would be
case if there was no free-will.
I believe the real argument lies in the fact that this
life is only temporary. The next one is eternal.
You've claimed, upthread, that only agnosticism is
rational.
That is correct.
How does
this square with supposing an afterlife, as though it
were a given?
I don't suppose an afterlife. I merely explain the theist
view. Unlike you, I choose to reject Christianity based
on what it actually represents, instead of my midnight
wanking over what I wish they would claim.
(If that isn't your position, you might want to be
careful how you use "fact" in a sentence. Use of the
conditional and the subjunctive might help.)
Since there are so many people here who are too fucking
illiterate to follow even a little bit of subtlty.
Terry, you're a theist dressed in agnostic drag for
spoiling purposes.
Liar.
You believe in an afterlife.
Liar.
Message from discussion Evil - outweighed by free will
Indeed, I was explaining the theist view.
Now, you retarded, masturbating, ***** sucking liar, where did I
profess it was *my* view?
Fucking retard. Liar. As usual. Atheist *always* end up retreating
to *lies*, when cornered with how fucking *stupid* they are? You
are *exactly* like the theists. Completely indistinguishable in any
way. You're part of the reason Landover Baptist Church is so funny.
View parsed - Show only message text
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news.linkpendium.com!news.linkpendium.com!pit-transit.telstra.net
!pit-
in1.telstra.net!news.telstra.net!news-south.connect.com.au!not-fo
r-mail From: Meteorite Debris
<epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOESaapt.net.au> Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Evil - outweighed by free will
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 08:59:06 +1030
Organization: Customer of AAPT Pty Ltd
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <MPG.21eaa8b072315cde9898e4@news.ade.connect.com.au>
References: <13ntvkmjnjs7l91@news.supernews.com>
<6cfaf925-5a5e-4dd7-
99a5-558acadb25d3@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> <13nu1u8is9lut35
@news.supernews.com> <Xns9A1BDFAF354B4taustingmail@216.168.3.64>
Reply-To: epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOESaapt.net.au
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X-Trace: news-01.bur.connect.com.au 1199572155 7180 61.68.233.59
(5 Jan 2008 22:29:15 GMT)
X-Complaints-To:
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 22:29:15 +0000 (UTC)
User-Agent: MicroPlanet-Gravity/2.60.2060
Last time that great scribe Terry Austin
<terry.notaniceper...@gmail.com> chipped away at his/her stone
these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
What happens in this life is relevant
only in how it affects the next.
What happened to the agnostic?
Did you even bother to look at the headers of the evidence to back up my
claim that you seem to believe in an afterlife?
--
Remove both YOUR_SHOES before replying
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2009
Apatriotism Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/apatriotism
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make
you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
.
|
|
|
| User: "Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy" |
|
| Title: Re: Evil - outweighed by free will |
10 Jan 2008 11:02:10 AM |
|
|
Meteorite Debris <epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOESaapt.net.au> wrote in
news:MPG.21f01e1a60bee89e9898fc@news.ade.connect.com.au:
Last time that great scribe Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
<terry.notaniceperson@gmail.com> chipped away at his/her stone
these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
Meteorite Debris <epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOESaapt.net.au> wrote in
news:MPG.21ed68608d98c4c59898f5@news.ade.connect.com.au:
Last time that great scribe Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
<terry.notaniceperson@gmail.com> chipped away at his/her
stone these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
Meteorite Debris <epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOESaapt.net.au> wrote
in news:MPG.21ec7b514b034c659898f2@news.ade.connect.com.au:
Last time that great scribe Gutless Umbrella Carrying
Sissy <terry.notaniceperson@gmail.com> chipped away at
his/her stone these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
Meteorite Debris <epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOESaapt.net.au>
wrote in
news:MPG.21eaab4484d72f479898e6@news.ade.connect.com.au:
Last time that great scribe Terry Austin
<terry.notaniceperson@gmail.com> chipped away at
his/her stone these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
Apostate <godless.*****@yeehaw.org.invalid> wrote in
news:n69un39quct82spl902kfegempea2jca5s@4ax.com:
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 05:59:20 -0000, Terry Austin
<terry.notaniceperson@gmail.com> wrote:
"Ultra" <ultra@ultra.ultra> wrote in
news:13nu1u8is9lut35 @news.supernews.com:
"Dag Yo" <sir_roko2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6cfaf925-5a5e-4dd7-99a5-558acadb25d3@v4g2000hs
f.g oog leg roups.com ...
That there is evil in the world does not mean
there is no God.
Agreed. The presence of evil in the world does
not preclude the possibility of a God.
It does however preclude the possibility of an
omnipotent, omnipresent, and omni-benevolent God.
Not true. God allows the evil caused by free-will
because the overall goodness exceeds what would be
case if there was no free-will.
I believe the real argument lies in the fact that
this life is only temporary. The next one is
eternal.
You've claimed, upthread, that only agnosticism is
rational.
That is correct.
How does
this square with supposing an afterlife, as though
it were a given?
I don't suppose an afterlife. I merely explain the
theist view. Unlike you, I choose to reject
Christianity based on what it actually represents,
instead of my midnight wanking over what I wish they
would claim.
(If that isn't your position, you might want to be
careful how you use "fact" in a sentence. Use of
the conditional and the subjunctive might help.)
Since there are so many people here who are too
fucking illiterate to follow even a little bit of
subtlty.
Terry, you're a theist dressed in agnostic drag for
spoiling purposes.
Liar.
You believe in an afterlife.
Liar.
Message from discussion Evil - outweighed by free will
Indeed, I was explaining the theist view.
Now, you retarded, masturbating, ***** sucking liar, where did I
profess it was *my* view?
Fucking retard. Liar. As usual. Atheist *always* end up
retreating to *lies*, when cornered with how fucking *stupid*
they are? You are *exactly* like the theists. Completely
indistinguishable in any way. You're part of the reason
Landover Baptist Church is so funny.
View parsed - Show only message text
Path: g2news1.google.com!news2.google.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!
news.linkpendium.com!news.linkpendium.com!pit-transit.telstra.
net !pit-
in1.telstra.net!news.telstra.net!news-south.connect.com.au!not
-fo r-mail From: Meteorite Debris
<epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOESaapt.net.au> Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Evil - outweighed by free will
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 08:59:06 +1030
Organization: Customer of AAPT Pty Ltd
Lines: 21
Message-ID:
<MPG.21eaa8b072315cde9898e4@news.ade.connect.com.au>
References: <13ntvkmjnjs7l91@news.supernews.com>
<6cfaf925-5a5e-4dd7-
99a5-558acadb25d3@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>
<13nu1u8is9lut35 @news.supernews.com>
<Xns9A1BDFAF354B4taustingmail@216.168.3.64> Reply-To:
epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOESaapt.net.au NNTP-Posting-Host:
c-61-68-233-59.ade.connect.net.au Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: news-01.bur.connect.com.au 1199572155 7180
61.68.233.59 (5 Jan 2008 22:29:15 GMT)
X-Complaints-To:
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 22:29:15 +0000 (UTC)
User-Agent: MicroPlanet-Gravity/2.60.2060
Last time that great scribe Terry Austin
<terry.notaniceper...@gmail.com> chipped away at his/her
stone these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
What happens in this life is relevant
only in how it affects the next.
What happened to the agnostic?
Did you even bother to look at the headers of the evidence to
back up my claim that you seem to believe in an afterlife?
Why would I? I know what I believe, and I know what I've said. You
can lie all you want to, doesn't change the facts.
--
Terry Austin
"There's no law west of the internet."
- Nick Stump
.
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: Evil - outweighed by free will |
05 Jan 2008 12:17:54 AM |
|
|
Terry Austin wrote:
"Ultra" <ultra@ultra.ultra> wrote in news:13nu1u8is9lut35
@news.supernews.com:
"Dag Yo" <sir_roko2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6cfaf925-5a5e-4dd7-99a5-558acadb25d3@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
That there is evil in the world does not mean there is no God.
Agreed. The presence of evil in the world does not preclude the
possibility of a God.
It does however preclude the possibility of an omnipotent,
omnipresent, and omni-benevolent God.
Not true. God allows the evil caused by free-will because the overall
goodness exceeds what would be case if there was no free-will.
I believe the real argument lies in the fact that this life is only
temporary. The next one is eternal. What happens in this life is relevant
only in how it affects the next.
The atheists *can't* answer that one, because they *can't* grasp the idea
that their assumption there is no afterlife can't be used to prove itself.
In that, they are indistinguishable from the theists who can't grasp that
their assumption that God exists cannot prove that God exists.
The onus is not on us to prove that it doesn't exist.
Here's how to look at it:
Prove that there are no invisible sentient dishwashers orbiting Saturn.
Go on. Prove there aren't any.
[and take a gander at this: an omnipresent God precludes the
possibility of free will]
There is no basis for this statement.
Actually, there is. God is inherently a contradiction. From any sane, human
perspective, an all-knowing, all-powerful being cannot exist, because the
two qualities are mutually exclusive. That's why God is a diety. He gets to
do things we can't understand.
That still doesn't mean that "God" exists beyond the imaginings of
superstitious people.
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act *
* of the whole American people which declared that *
* their legislature should make no law respecting *
* an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the *
* free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of *
* separation between church and state." *
* --Thomas Jefferson, 1802 *
****************************************************
.
|
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| User: "Terry Austin" |
|
| Title: Re: Evil - outweighed by free will |
05 Jan 2008 12:28:29 AM |
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DanielSan <petersonj07@comcast.net> wrote in
news:JOOdnUp7mpENveLanZ2dnUVZ_q3inZ2d@comcast.com:
Terry Austin wrote:
"Ultra" <ultra@ultra.ultra> wrote in news:13nu1u8is9lut35
@news.supernews.com:
"Dag Yo" <sir_roko2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6cfaf925-5a5e-4dd7-99a5-558acadb25d3@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com
...
That there is evil in the world does not mean there is no God.
Agreed. The presence of evil in the world does not preclude the
possibility of a God.
It does however preclude the possibility of an omnipotent,
omnipresent, and omni-benevolent God.
Not true. God allows the evil caused by free-will because the
overall goodness exceeds what would be case if there was no
free-will.
I believe the real argument lies in the fact that this life is only
temporary. The next one is eternal. What happens in this life is
relevant only in how it affects the next.
The atheists *can't* answer that one, because they *can't* grasp the
idea that their assumption there is no afterlife can't be used to
prove itself. In that, they are indistinguishable from the theists
who can't grasp that their assumption that God exists cannot prove
that God exists.
The onus is not on us to prove that it doesn't exist.
Then why do you care? Why bother to even read this newsgroup, if you
don't believe there is no God.
Here's how to look at it:
Prove that there are no invisible sentient dishwashers orbiting
Saturn.
Go on. Prove there aren't any.
Provide some evidence that anyone has claimed there are.
[and take a gander at this: an omnipresent God precludes the
possibility of free will]
There is no basis for this statement.
Actually, there is. God is inherently a contradiction. From any sane,
human perspective, an all-knowing, all-powerful being cannot exist,
because the two qualities are mutually exclusive. That's why God is a
diety. He gets to do things we can't understand.
That still doesn't mean that "God" exists beyond the imaginings of
superstitious people.
Very true. But it is internally consistent in ways that you aren't smart
enough to debunk.
--
Terry Austin
Beware the other head of science. It bites.
.
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| User: "DanielSan" |
|
| Title: Re: Evil - outweighed by free will |
05 Jan 2008 12:42:43 AM |
|
|
Terry Austin wrote:
DanielSan <petersonj07@comcast.net> wrote in
news:JOOdnUp7mpENveLanZ2dnUVZ_q3inZ2d@comcast.com:
Terry Austin wrote:
"Ultra" <ultra@ultra.ultra> wrote in news:13nu1u8is9lut35
@news.supernews.com:
"Dag Yo" <sir_roko2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6cfaf925-5a5e-4dd7-99a5-558acadb25d3@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com
...
That there is evil in the world does not mean there is no God.
Agreed. The presence of evil in the world does not preclude the
possibility of a God.
It does however preclude the possibility of an omnipotent,
omnipresent, and omni-benevolent God.
Not true. God allows the evil caused by free-will because the
overall goodness exceeds what would be case if there was no
free-will.
I believe the real argument lies in the fact that this life is only
temporary. The next one is eternal. What happens in this life is
relevant only in how it affects the next.
The atheists *can't* answer that one, because they *can't* grasp the
idea that their assumption there is no afterlife can't be used to
prove itself. In that, they are indistinguishable from the theists
who can't grasp that their assumption that God exists cannot prove
that God exists.
The onus is not on us to prove that it doesn't exist.
Then why do you care?
Because there are folks that try to shove laws regarding religion down
my throat. I am forced to spend money with fictional beings being
referenced on it, for example.
Why bother to even read this newsgroup, if you
don't believe there is no God.
Because I enjoy debate and socializing.
Here's how to look at it:
Prove that there are no invisible sentient dishwashers orbiting
Saturn.
Go on. Prove there aren't any.
Not going to attempt this, are you?
Provide some evidence that anyone has claimed there are.
[and take a gander at this: an omnipresent God precludes the
possibility of free will]
There is no basis for this statement.
Actually, there is. God is inherently a contradiction. From any sane,
human perspective, an all-knowing, all-powerful being cannot exist,
because the two qualities are mutually exclusive. That's why God is a
diety. He gets to do things we can't understand.
That still doesn't mean that "God" exists beyond the imaginings of
superstitious people.
Very true. But it is internally consistent in ways that you aren't smart
enough to debunk.
Jabba the Hutt is internally consistent. Doesn't mean he exists.
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act *
* of the whole American people which declared that *
* their legislature should make no law respecting *
* an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the *
* free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of *
* separation between church and state." *
* --Thomas Jefferson, 1802 *
****************************************************
.
|
|
|
| User: "Terry Austin" |
|
| Title: Re: Evil - outweighed by free will |
05 Jan 2008 12:08:31 PM |
|
|
DanielSan <petersonj07@comcast.net> wrote in
news:2Yednew4fZ38u-LanZ2dnUVZ_s_inZ2d@comcast.com:
Terry Austin wrote:
DanielSan <petersonj07@comcast.net> wrote in
news:JOOdnUp7mpENveLanZ2dnUVZ_q3inZ2d@comcast.com:
Terry Austin wrote:
"Ultra" <ultra@ultra.ultra> wrote in news:13nu1u8is9lut35
@news.supernews.com:
"Dag Yo" <sir_roko2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6cfaf925-5a5e-4dd7-99a5-558acadb25d3@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.c
om ...
That there is evil in the world does not mean there is no God.
Agreed. The presence of evil in the world does not preclude the
possibility of a God.
It does however preclude the possibility of an omnipotent,
omnipresent, and omni-benevolent God.
Not true. God allows the evil caused by free-will because the
overall goodness exceeds what would be case if there was no
free-will.
I believe the real argument lies in the fact that this life is only
temporary. The next one is eternal. What happens in this life is
relevant only in how it affects the next.
The atheists *can't* answer that one, because they *can't* grasp
the idea that their assumption there is no afterlife can't be used
to prove itself. In that, they are indistinguishable from the
theists who can't grasp that their assumption that God exists
cannot prove that God exists.
The onus is not on us to prove that it doesn't exist.
Then why do you care?
Because there are folks that try to shove laws regarding religion down
my throat. I am forced to spend money with fictional beings being
referenced on it, for example.
And exactly what effect does this have on your life that is so terrible?
That isn't the result of you being a dipshit, that is. Boo fucking hoo.
And if that's the case, retard, you should be arguing against the *laws*,
not the religion. But it's not about the laws, its about you telling them
how to live, and what to believe. *Just* like they want to do to you.
Why bother to even read this newsgroup, if you
don't believe there is no God.
Because I enjoy debate and socializing.
You are doing neither here.
Here's how to look at it:
Prove that there are no invisible sentient dishwashers orbiting
Saturn.
Go on. Prove there aren't any.
Not going to attempt this, are you?
Why'd you snip out my answer? Afraid to dealing with it? Typical cowardly
response. *Just* like the theists.
Provide some evidence that anyone has claimed there are.
[and take a gander at this: an omnipresent God precludes the
possibility of free will]
There is no basis for this statement.
Actually, there is. God is inherently a contradiction. From any
sane, human perspective, an all-knowing, all-powerful being cannot
exist, because the two qualities are mutually exclusive. That's why
God is a diety. He gets to do things we can't understand.
That still doesn't mean that "God" exists beyond the imaginings of
superstitious people.
Very true. But it is internally consistent in ways that you aren't
smart enough to debunk.
Jabba the Hutt is internally consistent. Doesn't mean he exists.
Who claims he does?
--
Terry Austin
Beware the other head of science. It bites.
.
|
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| User: "DanielSan" |
|
| Title: Re: Evil - outweighed by free will |
05 Jan 2008 12:35:56 PM |
|
|
Terry Austin wrote:
DanielSan <petersonj07@comcast.net> wrote in
news:2Yednew4fZ38u-LanZ2dnUVZ_s_inZ2d@comcast.com:
Terry Austin wrote:
DanielSan <petersonj07@comcast.net> wrote in
news:JOOdnUp7mpENveLanZ2dnUVZ_q3inZ2d@comcast.com:
Terry Austin wrote:
"Ultra" <ultra@ultra.ultra> wrote in news:13nu1u8is9lut35
@news.supernews.com:
"Dag Yo" <sir_roko2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6cfaf925-5a5e-4dd7-99a5-558acadb25d3@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.c
om ...
That there is evil in the world does not mean there is no God.
Agreed. The presence of evil in the world does not preclude the
possibility of a God.
It does however preclude the possibility of an omnipotent,
omnipresent, and omni-benevolent God.
Not true. God allows the evil caused by free-will because the
overall goodness exceeds what would be case if there was no
free-will.
I believe the real argument lies in the fact that this life is only
temporary. The next one is eternal. What happens in this life is
relevant only in how it affects the next.
The atheists *can't* answer that one, because they *can't* grasp
the idea that their assumption there is no afterlife can't be used
to prove itself. In that, they are indistinguishable from the
theists who can't grasp that their assumption that God exists
cannot prove that God exists.
The onus is not on us to prove that it doesn't exist.
Then why do you care?
Because there are folks that try to shove laws regarding religion down
my throat. I am forced to spend money with fictional beings being
referenced on it, for example.
And exactly what effect does this have on your life that is so terrible?
That isn't the result of you being a dipshit, that is. Boo fucking hoo.
Let me know how you feel when your money has "In the Flying Spaghetti
Monster We Trust" on it.
And if that's the case, retard, you should be arguing against the *laws*,
not the religion. But it's not about the laws, its about you telling them
how to live, and what to believe. *Just* like they want to do to you.
Why bother to even read this newsgroup, if you
don't believe there is no God.
Because I enjoy debate and socializing.
You are doing neither here.
Do you know the definition of the word "debate"?
Here's how to look at it:
Prove that there are no invisible sentient dishwashers orbiting
Saturn.
Go on. Prove there aren't any.
Not going to attempt this, are you?
Why'd you snip out my answer? Afraid to dealing with it? Typical cowardly
response. *Just* like the theists.
I didn't snip it. Look just below:
Provide some evidence that anyone has claimed there are.
I have claimed that there are invisible sentient dishwashers are
orbiting Saturn. Prove that there are no invisible sentient dishwashers
orbiting Saturn. Go on. Prove there aren't any.
[and take a gander at this: an omnipresent God precludes the
possibility of free will]
There is no basis for this statement.
Actually, there is. God is inherently a contradiction. From any
sane, human perspective, an all-knowing, all-powerful being cannot
exist, because the two qualities are mutually exclusive. That's why
God is a diety. He gets to do things we can't understand.
That still doesn't mean that "God" exists beyond the imaginings of
superstitious people.
Very true. But it is internally consistent in ways that you aren't
smart enough to debunk.
Jabba the Hutt is internally consistent. Doesn't mean he exists.
Who claims he does?
George Lucas. Prove Lucas wrong. Prove there are no Hutts.
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act *
* of the whole American people which declared that *
* their legislature should make no law respecting *
* an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the *
* free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of *
* separation between church and state." *
* --Thomas Jefferson, 1802 *
****************************************************
.
|
|
|
| User: "Terry Austin" |
|
| Title: Re: Evil - outweighed by free will |
05 Jan 2008 04:24:57 PM |
|
|
DanielSan <petersonj07@comcast.net> wrote in
news:xOqdnbcsnqsbUOLanZ2dnUVZ_s_inZ2d@comcast.com:
Terry Austin wrote:
DanielSan <petersonj07@comcast.net> wrote in
news:2Yednew4fZ38u-LanZ2dnUVZ_s_inZ2d@comcast.com:
Terry Austin wrote:
DanielSan <petersonj07@comcast.net> wrote in
news:JOOdnUp7mpENveLanZ2dnUVZ_q3inZ2d@comcast.com:
Terry Austin wrote:
"Ultra" <ultra@ultra.ultra> wrote in news:13nu1u8is9lut35
@news.supernews.com:
"Dag Yo" <sir_roko2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6cfaf925-5a5e-4dd7-99a5-558acadb25d3@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups
.c om ...
That there is evil in the world does not mean there is no God.
Agreed. The presence of evil in the world does not preclude
the possibility of a God.
It does however preclude the possibility of an omnipotent,
omnipresent, and omni-benevolent God.
Not true. God allows the evil caused by free-will because the
overall goodness exceeds what would be case if there was no
free-will.
I believe the real argument lies in the fact that this life is
only temporary. The next one is eternal. What happens in this
life is relevant only in how it affects the next.
The atheists *can't* answer that one, because they *can't* grasp
the idea that their assumption there is no afterlife can't be
used to prove itself. In that, they are indistinguishable from
the theists who can't grasp that their assumption that God exists
cannot prove that God exists.
The onus is not on us to prove that it doesn't exist.
Then why do you care?
Because there are folks that try to shove laws regarding religion
down my throat. I am forced to spend money with fictional beings
being referenced on it, for example.
And exactly what effect does this have on your life that is so
terrible? That isn't the result of you being a dipshit, that is. Boo
fucking hoo.
Let me know how you feel when your money has "In the Flying Spaghetti
Monster We Trust" on it.
If it spends the same, why would I give a *****? Why wo | | | | | | | | | |
