Religions > Atheism > Evil Bible Quote of the Day for Jan. 19 (Ritual Human Sacrifice)
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Editor of EvilBible.com" |
| Date: |
19 Jan 2004 07:09:21 AM |
| Object: |
Evil Bible Quote of the Day for Jan. 19 (Ritual Human Sacrifice) |
Evil Bible Quote of the Day for Jan. 19, 2004 from www.EvilBible.com:
Ritual Human Sacrifice (Judges 11:29-40)
"At that time the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he went
throughout the land of Gilead and Manasseh, including Mizpah in Gilead, and
led an army against the Ammonites. And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD. He
said, "If you give me victory over the Ammonites, I will give to the LORD
the first thing coming out of my house to greet me when I return in triumph.
I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."
"So Jephthah led his army against the Ammonites, and the LORD gave him
victory. He thoroughly defeated the Ammonites from Aroer to an area near
Minnith - twenty towns - and as far away as Abel-keramim. Thus Israel
subdued the Ammonites. When Jephthah returned home to Mizpah, his
daughter - his only child - ran out to meet him, playing on a tambourine and
dancing for joy. When he saw her, he tore his clothes in anguish. "My
daughter!" he cried out. "My heart is breaking! What a tragedy that you
came out to greet me. For I have made a vow to the LORD and cannot take it
back." And she said, "Father, you have made a promise to the LORD. You
must do to me what you have promised, for the LORD has given you a great
victory over your enemies, the Ammonites. But first let me go up and roam
in the hills and weep with my friends for two months, because I will die a
virgin." "You may go," Jephthah said. And he let her go away for two
months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would
never have children. When she returned home, her father kept his vow, and
she died a virgin. So it has become a custom in Israel for young Israelite
women to go away for four days each year to lament the fate of Jephthah's
daughter."
(P.S. I have recently update my web page about ritual human sacrifice in the
Bible. It is at http://www.evilbible.com/Ritual_Human_Sacrifice.htm )
What kind of person would get their moral guidance from an ancient book of
myths and magic that says it is OK to murder, rape, pillage, and plunder?
Read more about the evils of the Bible at www.EvilBible.com
.
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| User: "John Kelley" |
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| Title: Re: Evil Bible Quote of the Day for Jan. 19 (Ritual Human Sacrifice) |
19 Jan 2004 12:38:34 PM |
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"Editor of EvilBible.com" <Dont_Reply@Here.com> wrote in message news:<5GQOb.2373$Fp1.1545909@news1.news.adelphia.net>...
Evil Bible Quote of the Day for Jan. 19, 2004 from www.EvilBible.com:
Ritual Human Sacrifice (Judges 11:29-40)
http://www.tektonics.org/tekton_03_02_04.html
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| User: "Editor of EvilBible.com" |
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| Title: Re: Evil Bible Quote of the Day for Jan. 19 (Ritual Human Sacrifice) |
19 Jan 2004 11:45:44 PM |
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"John Kelley" <jkelley@zoomnet.net> wrote in message
news:ce9e95d1.0401191038.550797c9@posting.google.com...
"Editor of EvilBible.com" <Dont_Reply@Here.com> wrote in message
news:<5GQOb.2373$Fp1.1545909@news1.news.adelphia.net>...
Evil Bible Quote of the Day for Jan. 19, 2004 from www.EvilBible.com:
Ritual Human Sacrifice (Judges 11:29-40)
http://www.tektonics.org/tekton_03_02_04.html
That site is always good for a few laughs. Let me respond to their lies:
1.. Literal "burnt offerings" HAD TO BE male (Lev 22.18-19). Jephthah's
daughter obviously wasn't.
Nope. Here is a good example of females being burned:
"Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you
that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray
by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must
examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such
a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and
completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then
you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put
the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That
town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the
plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn
from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on
you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your
ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and
keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."
(Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
2.. Human sacrifice was STRICTLY forbidden (Dt 12.31) and we have NO
record of it being practiced (even in horrible Judges-period Israel) by
mainstream Israel during this period.
(Leviticus 27:28-29) "Note also that any one of his possessions which a man
vows as doomed to the Lord, whether it is a human being or an animal, or a
hereditary field, shall be neither sold nor ransomed; everything that is
thus doomed becomes most sacred to the Lord. All human beings that are
doomed lose the right to be redeemed; they must be put to death."
God Commands Burning Humans
[The Lord speaking] "The one who has stolen what was set apart for
destruction will himself be burned with fire, along with everything he has,
for he has broken the covenant of the LORD and has done a horrible thing in
Israel." (Joshua 7:15 NLT)
Josiah and Human Sacrifice
At the LORD's command, a man of God from Judah went to Bethel, and he
arrived there just as Jeroboam was approaching the altar to offer a
sacrifice. Then at the LORD's command, he shouted, "O altar, altar! This
is what the LORD says: A child named Josiah will be born into the dynasty of
David. On you he will sacrifice the priests from the pagan shrines who come
here to burn incense, and human bones will be burned on you." (1 Kings
13:1-2 NLT)
He [Josiah] executed the priests of the pagan shrines on their own
altars, and he burned human bones on the altars to desecrate them. Finally,
he returned to Jerusalem. King Josiah then issued this order to all the
people: "You must celebrate the Passover to the LORD your God, as it is
written in the Book of the Covenant." There had not been a Passover
celebration like that since the time when the judges ruled in Israel,
throughout all the years of the kings of Israel and Judah. This Passover
was celebrated to the LORD in Jerusalem during the eighteenth year of King
Josiah's reign. Josiah also exterminated the mediums and psychics, the
household gods, and every other kind of idol worship, both in Jerusalem and
throughout the land of Judah. He did this in obedience to all the laws
written in the scroll that Hilkiah the priest had found in the LORD's
Temple. Never before had there been a king like Josiah, who turned to the
LORD with all his heart and soul and strength, obeying all the laws of
Moses. And there has never been a king like him since. (2 Kings 23:20-25
NLT)
3.. The lament for the daughter is about 'not marrying' NOT about 'not
living'--it makes me wonder if some kind of religious celibacy is not in
view. (Maybe the women at the Entrance to the Tent were celibate--Ex
38.8--living as widows in Israel later did on Temple payrolls.)
You can wonder all you want, but the actual text of the Bible says he killed
her.
4.. Verse 39 calls his action a 'vow'. Lev 27.28 (coupled with 27.21)
allowed people to be given over the Lord, who became servants of the
Priests. As devoted to the Lord's service, some of them probably did NOT
marry (cf. the Nazarite vow, in its restriction on becoming 'unclean' for
family members (Num 6.7) omits the words 'husband' or 'wife'...perhaps it
was sometimes involving celibacy. The only Nazies we know, though, were
married--Samuel and Samson)
What part of "I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering" don't these idiots
understand?
5.. As the only child, and if given to the priest in this fashion,
Jephthah's entire estate would go to someone else.
So what?
6.. We have the VERY parallel case of Hannah and Samuel. She takes a vow,
and offers her son to the Lord for all his life. (I Sam 1-2), and such vows
did NOT allow the person to be redeemed with money (Lev 27.28-29).
She never vowed to offer her son as a burnt offering. It is not a parrallel
case at all. It is totally different.
7.. Burnt offerings were ALWAYS associated with condemnation/evil--not
thanksgiving and vows. Even the one non-literal use of it in Dt 13.16 (in
which a town is offered as a burnt offering) involves abject
judgment/condemnation--NOT at all in view in the Jephthah passage.
What about Abraham?
8.. He would have had to offer her at some cultic site, which would have
had a priest. I cannot imagine a priest (even those as lax as elsewhere in
the book of Judges) that would have agreed to perform a human sacrifice!
(Leviticus 27:28-29) "Note also that any one of his possessions which a man
vows as doomed to the Lord, whether it is a human being or an animal, or a
hereditary field, shall be neither sold nor ransomed; everything that is
thus doomed becomes most sacred to the Lord. All human beings that are
doomed lose the right to be redeemed; they must be put to death."
This doesn't sound like pagan priests to me.
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| User: "Chris C." |
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| Title: Re: Evil Bible Quote of the Day for Jan. 19 (Ritual Human Sacrifice) |
19 Jan 2004 03:36:48 PM |
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Fool of EvilBible.com wrote:
Evil Bible Quote of the Day for Jan. 19, 2004 from www.EvilBible.com:
Ritual Human Sacrifice (Judges 11:29-40)
"At that time the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he went
throughout the land of Gilead and Manasseh, including Mizpah in Gilead, and
led an army against the Ammonites. And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD. He
said, "If you give me victory over the Ammonites, I will give to the LORD
the first thing coming out of my house to greet me when I return in triumph.
I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."
"So Jephthah led his army against the Ammonites, and the LORD gave him
victory. He thoroughly defeated the Ammonites from Aroer to an area near
Minnith - twenty towns - and as far away as Abel-keramim. Thus Israel
subdued the Ammonites. When Jephthah returned home to Mizpah, his
daughter - his only child - ran out to meet him, playing on a tambourine and
dancing for joy. When he saw her, he tore his clothes in anguish. "My
daughter!" he cried out. "My heart is breaking! What a tragedy that you
came out to greet me. For I have made a vow to the LORD and cannot take it
back." And she said, "Father, you have made a promise to the LORD. You
must do to me what you have promised, for the LORD has given you a great
victory over your enemies, the Ammonites. But first let me go up and roam
in the hills and weep with my friends for two months, because I will die a
virgin." "You may go," Jephthah said. And he let her go away for two
months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would
never have children. When she returned home, her father kept his vow, and
she died a virgin. So it has become a custom in Israel for young Israelite
women to go away for four days each year to lament the fate of Jephthah's
daughter."
(P.S. I have recently update my web page about ritual human sacrifice in the
Bible. It is at http://www.evilbible.com/Ritual_Human_Sacrifice.htm )
What kind of person would get their moral guidance from an ancient book of
myths and magic that says it is OK to murder, rape, pillage, and plunder?
Read more about the evils of the Bible at www.EvilBible.com
Now see what its really is talking about:
Like Othniel and Gideon before him, Jephthah is animated by the spirit
of the Lord (v. 29), but in Jephthah’s case this takes place after he
had assumed leadership. In return for victory over Ammon, Jephthah vows
to sacrifice as a burnt offering to God the one who meets him upon his
return from battle. Some commentators have argued that he may have had
in mind an animal, but both the language and the nature of a vow
(namely, an extreme measure that would ordinarily entail the offer of
something quite precious) suggest that a person was meant.
The Hebrew Bible generally condemns human sacrifice (Lev. 18:21; 20:1-5;
Deut. 12:31; 18:10; but see also Gen. 22; Exod. 22:29-30; and Mic.
6:7-8), and the actual biblical examples of the practice, which are few,
view it with horror (see 2 Kings 3:27; 16:3; 21:6). God gives Jephthah a
great victory (Judg. 11:32-33) and thus Jephthah must fulfill his part.
A vow, once uttered, was irrevocable (v. 35; Num. 30:2). Jephthah’s
reaction (Judg. 11:35) makes clear that he had not expected the one to
meet him to be his daughter. His daughter courageously accepts her fate,
requesting only a two-month delay to lament her virginity, since to die
childless was a great misfortune. Jephthah too will die childless, since
his daughter is his only child. The sacrifice itself is treated in less
than one brief verse (v. 39); the details are too terrible to receive
elaboration. The young woman’s tragedy is tempered by the company of
women who grieve with her (vv. 37-38) and who, after her death, remember
her in a yearly ritual (v. 40). rsv and jb, following lxx and Vg., read
“to lament,” but the Hebrew verb has the sense of “recount” or
“commemorate” (cf. its only other occurrence in 5:11). The most
startling feature of the narrative is the absence of any condemnation of
Jephthah’s sacrifice of his daughter to God.
12:1-7, Civil War Between Gilead and Ephraim.
Some commentators understand the conflict as originating in Ephraim’s
reaction to the threat to its influence in Transjordan posed by the
assertion of Gileadite authority. Unlike Gideon before him (8:1-3) and
in marked contrast to his own lengthy attempt at negotiations with the
Ammonite king, Jephthah does not seriously pursue diplomacy as a means
of placating Ephraim’s anger at not having been called up to join the
battle against Ammon. Moreover, Jephthah and the Ephraimites have
different versions of the events (12:1-3), and the text gives us no clue
which to believe. Fighting breaks out and the Gileadites gain the upper
hand.They seize the fords of the Jordan and slay any Ephraimite trying
to escape to his own territory. Anyone trying to cross over into the
area west of the Jordan had to say the word “shibboleth” (meaning “ear
of grain” or “torrent of water”). The Ephraimites, who spoke a different
dialect of Hebrew, pronounced it differently from the Gileadites, and
thus betrayed their true identities. The information about Jephthah’s
term of office, death, and burial (v. 7) links Jephthah with the list of
minor judges, where the same type of information is summarily presented.
.
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| User: "Editor of EvilBible.com" |
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| Title: Re: Evil Bible Quote of the Day for Jan. 19 (Ritual Human Sacrifice) |
19 Jan 2004 09:44:50 PM |
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"Chris C." <carneyc@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:P5YOb.86727$5V2.119486@attbi_s53...
Fool of EvilBible.com wrote:
Evil Bible Quote of the Day for Jan. 19, 2004 from www.EvilBible.com:
Ritual Human Sacrifice (Judges 11:29-40)
"At that time the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he went
throughout the land of Gilead and Manasseh, including Mizpah in Gilead,
and
led an army against the Ammonites. And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD.
He
said, "If you give me victory over the Ammonites, I will give to the
LORD
the first thing coming out of my house to greet me when I return in
triumph.
I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."
"So Jephthah led his army against the Ammonites, and the LORD gave
him
victory. He thoroughly defeated the Ammonites from Aroer to an area
near
Minnith - twenty towns - and as far away as Abel-keramim. Thus Israel
subdued the Ammonites. When Jephthah returned home to Mizpah, his
daughter - his only child - ran out to meet him, playing on a tambourine
and
dancing for joy. When he saw her, he tore his clothes in anguish. "My
daughter!" he cried out. "My heart is breaking! What a tragedy that
you
came out to greet me. For I have made a vow to the LORD and cannot take
it
back." And she said, "Father, you have made a promise to the LORD. You
must do to me what you have promised, for the LORD has given you a great
victory over your enemies, the Ammonites. But first let me go up and
roam
in the hills and weep with my friends for two months, because I will die
a
virgin." "You may go," Jephthah said. And he let her go away for two
months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she
would
never have children. When she returned home, her father kept his vow,
and
she died a virgin. So it has become a custom in Israel for young
Israelite
women to go away for four days each year to lament the fate of
Jephthah's
daughter."
(P.S. I have recently update my web page about ritual human sacrifice in
the
Bible. It is at http://www.evilbible.com/Ritual_Human_Sacrifice.htm )
What kind of person would get their moral guidance from an ancient book
of
myths and magic that says it is OK to murder, rape, pillage, and
plunder?
Read more about the evils of the Bible at www.EvilBible.com
Now see what its really is talking about:
Like Othniel and Gideon before him, Jephthah is animated by the spirit
of the Lord (v. 29), but in Jephthah’s case this takes place after he
had assumed leadership. In return for victory over Ammon, Jephthah vows
to sacrifice as a burnt offering to God the one who meets him upon his
return from battle. ...
The most
startling feature of the narrative is the absence of any condemnation of
Jephthah’s sacrifice of his daughter to God.
This is exactly how I read this passage. How is this any different than a
straight reading of this verse? Isn't the Bible condoning human sacrifice?
.
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| User: "Editor of EvilBible.com" |
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| Title: Re: Evil Bible Quote of the Day for Jan. 19 (Ritual Human Sacrifice) |
19 Jan 2004 11:45:41 PM |
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"Chris C." <carneyc@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:P5YOb.86727$5V2.119486@attbi_s53...
Fool of EvilBible.com wrote:
Evil Bible Quote of the Day for Jan. 19, 2004 from www.EvilBible.com:
Ritual Human Sacrifice (Judges 11:29-40)
"At that time the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he went
throughout the land of Gilead and Manasseh, including Mizpah in Gilead,
and
led an army against the Ammonites. And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD.
He
said, "If you give me victory over the Ammonites, I will give to the
LORD
the first thing coming out of my house to greet me when I return in
triumph.
I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."
"So Jephthah led his army against the Ammonites, and the LORD gave
him
victory. He thoroughly defeated the Ammonites from Aroer to an area
near
Minnith - twenty towns - and as far away as Abel-keramim. Thus Israel
subdued the Ammonites. When Jephthah returned home to Mizpah, his
daughter - his only child - ran out to meet him, playing on a tambourine
and
dancing for joy. When he saw her, he tore his clothes in anguish. "My
daughter!" he cried out. "My heart is breaking! What a tragedy that
you
came out to greet me. For I have made a vow to the LORD and cannot take
it
back." And she said, "Father, you have made a promise to the LORD. You
must do to me what you have promised, for the LORD has given you a great
victory over your enemies, the Ammonites. But first let me go up and
roam
in the hills and weep with my friends for two months, because I will die
a
virgin." "You may go," Jephthah said. And he let her go away for two
months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she
would
never have children. When she returned home, her father kept his vow,
and
she died a virgin. So it has become a custom in Israel for young
Israelite
women to go away for four days each year to lament the fate of
Jephthah's
daughter."
(P.S. I have recently update my web page about ritual human sacrifice in
the
Bible. It is at http://www.evilbible.com/Ritual_Human_Sacrifice.htm )
What kind of person would get their moral guidance from an ancient book
of
myths and magic that says it is OK to murder, rape, pillage, and
plunder?
Read more about the evils of the Bible at www.EvilBible.com
Now see what its really is talking about:
Like Othniel and Gideon before him, Jephthah is animated by the spirit
of the Lord (v. 29), but in Jephthah’s case this takes place after he
had assumed leadership. In return for victory over Ammon, Jephthah vows
to sacrifice as a burnt offering to God the one who meets him upon his
return from battle. ...
The most
startling feature of the narrative is the absence of any condemnation of
Jephthah’s sacrifice of his daughter to God.
This is exactly how I read this passage. How is this any different than a
straight reading of this verse? Isn't the Bible condoning human sacrifice?
.
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| User: "€ R.L. Measures" |
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| Title: Re: Evil Bible Quote of the Day for Jan. 19 (Ritual Human Sacrifice) |
19 Jan 2004 08:43:40 AM |
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In article <5GQOb.2373$Fp1.1545909@news1.news.adelphia.net>, "Editor of
EvilBible.com" <Dont_Reply@Here.com> wrote:
Evil Bible Quote of the Day for Jan. 19, 2004 from www.EvilBible.com:
Ritual Human Sacrifice (Judges 11:29-40)
"At that time the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he went
throughout the land of Gilead and Manasseh, including Mizpah in Gilead, and
led an army against the Ammonites. And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD. He
said, "If you give me victory over the Ammonites, I will give to the LORD
the first thing coming out of my house to greet me when I return in triumph.
I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."
"So Jephthah led his army against the Ammonites, and the LORD gave him
victory. He thoroughly defeated the Ammonites from Aroer to an area near
Minnith - twenty towns - and as far away as Abel-keramim. Thus Israel
subdued the Ammonites. When Jephthah returned home to Mizpah, his
daughter - his only child - ran out to meet him, playing on a tambourine and
dancing for joy. When he saw her, he tore his clothes in anguish. "My
daughter!" he cried out. "My heart is breaking! What a tragedy that you
came out to greet me. For I have made a vow to the LORD and cannot take it
back." And she said, "Father, you have made a promise to the LORD. You
must do to me what you have promised, for the LORD has given you a great
victory over your enemies, the Ammonites. But first let me go up and roam
in the hills and weep with my friends for two months, because I will die a
virgin." "You may go," Jephthah said. And he let her go away for two
months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would
never have children. When she returned home, her father kept his vow, and
she died a virgin. So it has become a custom in Israel for young Israelite
women to go away for four days each year to lament the fate of Jephthah's
daughter."
(P.S. I have recently update my web page about ritual human sacrifice in the
Bible. It is at http://www.evilbible.com/Ritual_Human_Sacrifice.htm )
What kind of person would get their moral guidance from an ancient book of
myths and magic that says it is OK to murder, rape, pillage, and plunder?
** Someone who was like-totally into S and M?
--
€ R.L. Measures, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org. + in adr = spam trap
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