| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"*nemo*" |
| Date: |
23 Apr 2004 05:51:14 AM |
| Object: |
Evolution and the Big Bang |
I have been talking with creationists from time to time, and I've
noticed something that's quite amusing. They simply *love* astronomy,
because it has evidence of the Big Bang. They believe that it is direct
evidence of *GAWD!* -- though most scientists don't think so themselves.
But at the same time, they don't believe in evolution. They stick with
this crackpot notion of "Adam and Eve in Eden."
Here's the point where I start to rub my eyes and say "HUH??" Astronomy
has established pretty solidly that the universe is billions of years
old. These creationists appear to think that the Earth is part of that
billions-years-old universe, but that humans popped into being only
about 10,000 years ago.
I asked a creationist "what do you think could have been going on during
those billions of years before we showed up?"
His answer? "The universe was being prepared for us!"
The hubris of that idea is breathtaking. But he has stood by it. It just
amazes me that these wackos could say this, and maintain with straight
faces that their view of the universe is consistent with all the facts.
It boggles the mind...
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
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| User: "Phÿltêr" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution and the Big Bang |
23 Apr 2004 10:14:33 AM |
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*nemo* <nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> astounded us with: news:nemo0037-
6CE56D.06511323042004@news06.east.earthlink.net:
I asked a creationist "what do you think could have been going on during
those billions of years before we showed up?"
His answer? "The universe was being prepared for us!"
LOL! Words fail me as to the starry eyed innocence of this, which, of course,
you could forgive of a five year old. Anyone older, weeeeeeell, you would
view them as a moron. Much like the above example.
Is it ready yet, is it ready yet, is it ready yet, is it ready yet?
--
Phÿltêr
Denizen of Darkness #44 & AFJC Antipodean Attaché
http://afjc.clickhalah.com/forum/index.php
Change "freeway" to "hotmail" to respond
.
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| User: "Andrew Lias" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution and the Big Bang |
23 Apr 2004 10:53:43 AM |
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*nemo* <nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote in message news:<nemo0037-6CE56D.06511323042004@news06.east.earthlink.net>...
Here's the point where I start to rub my eyes and say "HUH??" Astronomy
has established pretty solidly that the universe is billions of years
old. These creationists appear to think that the Earth is part of that
billions-years-old universe, but that humans popped into being only
about 10,000 years ago.
I asked a creationist "what do you think could have been going on during
those billions of years before we showed up?"
His answer? "The universe was being prepared for us!"
This reminds me of a little essay that Mark Twain wrote in which he
imagined that the history of the world was a huge tower and that the
whole of human history was the thin layer of paint on the top of the
tower. His ironic observation was that it was obvious that the
purpose of the tower was to hold up that layer of paint.
--
Andrew Lias
HTTP://andrewlias.blogspot.com
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| User: "Iain" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution and the Big Bang |
23 Apr 2004 11:29:11 AM |
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*nemo* <nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote in message news:<nemo0037-6CE56D.06511323042004@news06.east.earthlink.net>...
I have been talking with creationists from time to time, and I've
noticed something that's quite amusing. They simply *love* astronomy,
because it has evidence of the Big Bang. They believe that it is direct
evidence of *GAWD!* -- though most scientists don't think so themselves.
But at the same time, they don't believe in evolution. They stick with
this crackpot notion of "Adam and Eve in Eden."
Here's the point where I start to rub my eyes and say "HUH??" Astronomy
has established pretty solidly that the universe is billions of years
old. These creationists appear to think that the Earth is part of that
billions-years-old universe, but that humans popped into being only
about 10,000 years ago.
I asked a creationist "what do you think could have been going on during
those billions of years before we showed up?"
His answer? "The universe was being prepared for us!"
The hubris of that idea is breathtaking. But he has stood by it. It just
amazes me that these wackos could say this, and maintain with straight
faces that their view of the universe is consistent with all the facts.
It boggles the mind...
Often they think that it is 6000 years old: the universe and planet.
~Iain
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| User: "Tink" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution and the Big Bang |
23 Apr 2004 06:56:36 AM |
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*nemo* wrote:
I have been talking with creationists from time to time, and I've
noticed something that's quite amusing. They simply *love* astronomy,
because it has evidence of the Big Bang. They believe that it is direct
evidence of *GAWD!* -- though most scientists don't think so themselves.
But at the same time, they don't believe in evolution. They stick with
this crackpot notion of "Adam and Eve in Eden."
Here's the point where I start to rub my eyes and say "HUH??" Astronomy
has established pretty solidly that the universe is billions of years
old. These creationists appear to think that the Earth is part of that
billions-years-old universe, but that humans popped into being only
about 10,000 years ago.
I asked a creationist "what do you think could have been going on during
those billions of years before we showed up?"
His answer? "The universe was being prepared for us!"
The hubris of that idea is breathtaking. But he has stood by it. It just
amazes me that these wackos could say this, and maintain with straight
faces that their view of the universe is consistent with all the facts.
It boggles the mind...
Just another example of the cognitive dissonance that is religion in
general, christianity in particular.
--
"There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher-
the clergyman." [Victor Hugo]
The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS# 8808
EAC Chairman, Division of Skydiving and Sushi consumption.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution and the Big Bang |
24 Apr 2004 03:19:33 AM |
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In article <nemo0037-6CE56D.06511323042004@news06.east.earthlink.net>,
*nemo* <nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote:
I have been talking with creationists from time to time, and I've
noticed something that's quite amusing. They simply *love* astronomy,
because it has evidence of the Big Bang. They believe that it is direct
evidence of *GAWD!* -- though most scientists don't think so themselves.
But at the same time, they don't believe in evolution. They stick with
this crackpot notion of "Adam and Eve in Eden."
Here's the point where I start to rub my eyes and say "HUH??" Astronomy
has established pretty solidly that the universe is billions of years
old. These creationists appear to think that the Earth is part of that
billions-years-old universe, but that humans popped into being only
about 10,000 years ago.
I asked a creationist "what do you think could have been going on during
those billions of years before we showed up?"
His answer? "The universe was being prepared for us!"
The hubris of that idea is breathtaking. But he has stood by it. It just
amazes me that these wackos could say this, and maintain with straight
faces that their view of the universe is consistent with all the facts.
It boggles the mind...
Now why would they let a few inconvenient facts interfere with their
cherished beliefs?
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Men become civilized not in their willingness to believe, but in
proportion to their readiness to doubt." - H. L. Mencken
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| User: "quibbler" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution and the Big Bang |
23 Apr 2004 10:46:12 AM |
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In article <nemo0037-6CE56D.06511323042004@news06.east.earthlink.net>,
nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net says...
I have been talking with creationists from time to time, and I've
noticed something that's quite amusing. They simply *love* astronomy,
because it has evidence of the Big Bang.
I think they're all just slavishly cleaving to William Lane Craig and
his moronic Kalam arguments. If you watch the 1999 Internet Infidels
debate between Lowder and Fernandez, the latter makes the same charge
that "the big bang theory is an absolute defeat for atheism". The mind
boggles at this kind of ignorant assertion from theists. One wonders if
he's even aware that the theory was called "the big bang" by theists as
a way of ridiculing it. In fact, at a later time Fernandez attempts to
use the same rhetoric to attack evolution by saying, "An explosion in a
print shop won't produce the encyclopedia britannica". That was exactly
the same "rationale" that theists used for saying that the "big bang"
could never have produced our universe.
But you're right that they're now being quite selective with the science
they believe. They don't believe it when scientists tell them there is
strong evidence for evolution, but they do believe it when scientists
tell them there is strong evidence for cosmic expansion tens of billions
of years ago. Naturally, their distorted and selective views of
"science" don't hold up. There's still nothing scientific about this
infinitely complex god they postulate as the cause of the big bang.
There's still no definitive conclusion that there couldn't have been
other universes that expanded and collapsed before our current big bang.
I think they just want to dress up their superstitions in the trappings
of science to fool the scientifically illiterate. I also suspect
strongly that they're adopting something like astronomy they realize
that there are more gaps in the theories and thus places where they can
hide their gods.
--
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
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| User: "W. Syme" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution and the Big Bang |
23 Apr 2004 06:08:05 AM |
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On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:51:14 GMT, *nemo*
<nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote:
His answer? "The universe was being prepared for us!"
The hubris of that idea is breathtaking.
Indeed. How exactly is a star 500 billion lightyears away being used
for our good?
--
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. (1 Thessalonians 5:21)
W. Syme (pseudonym), European, non-native English speaker, "soft" atheist.
Email will not be read.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution and the Big Bang |
23 Apr 2004 06:37:54 AM |
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On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:08:05 GMT, W. Syme
<Winston.Syme.superstitions@fastmail.fm> wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:51:14 GMT, *nemo*
<nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote:
His answer? "The universe was being prepared for us!"
The hubris of that idea is breathtaking.
Indeed. How exactly is a star 500 billion lightyears away being used
for our good?
Arthur C Clarke wrote a short story about a clergyman (chaplain? I
can't remember) who was on a space expedition to the remains of a
nova. They found the remains of a dead civilisation, on a dead planet,
who had gone deep underground to try and survive. He did his sums and
the punch-line was to ask why God had chosen to destroy a civilisation
to provide the bright start of Bethlehem.
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution and the Big Bang |
26 Apr 2004 10:02:17 AM |
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On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:37:54 GMT, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net>, Message ID:
<frvh80t9lpu5q3ieakj31u7qepmv594h8c@4ax.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:08:05 GMT, W. Syme
<Winston.Syme.superstitions@fastmail.fm> wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:51:14 GMT, *nemo*
<nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote:
His answer? "The universe was being prepared for us!"
The hubris of that idea is breathtaking.
Indeed. How exactly is a star 500 billion lightyears away being used
for our good?
Arthur C Clarke wrote a short story about a clergyman (chaplain? I
can't remember) who was on a space expedition to the remains of a
nova. They found the remains of a dead civilisation, on a dead planet,
who had gone deep underground to try and survive. He did his sums and
the punch-line was to ask why God had chosen to destroy a civilisation
to provide the bright start of Bethlehem.
http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?inkey=7-0312878605-4
The Collected Stories of Arthur C. Clarke
by Arthur C Clarke {contains all of them}
I vaguely remember that story.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "Albert Jackaman" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution and the Big Bang |
29 Apr 2004 11:41:19 AM |
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stoney wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:37:54 GMT, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net>, Message ID:
<frvh80t9lpu5q3ieakj31u7qepmv594h8c@4ax.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:08:05 GMT, W. Syme
<Winston.Syme.superstitions@fastmail.fm> wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:51:14 GMT, *nemo*
<nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote:
His answer? "The universe was being prepared for us!"
The hubris of that idea is breathtaking.
Indeed. How exactly is a star 500 billion lightyears away being used
for our good?
Arthur C Clarke wrote a short story about a clergyman (chaplain? I
can't remember) who was on a space expedition to the remains of a
nova. They found the remains of a dead civilisation, on a dead
planet, who had gone deep underground to try and survive. He did his
sums and the punch-line was to ask why God had chosen to destroy a
civilisation to provide the bright start of Bethlehem.
http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?inkey=7-0312878605-4
The Collected Stories of Arthur C. Clarke
by Arthur C Clarke {contains all of them}
I vaguely remember that story.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish} I think the story was
by James Blish.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution and the Big Bang |
01 May 2004 07:18:15 PM |
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On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:41:19 +0100, "Albert Jackaman"
<albert.jackaman@ntlworld.com>, Message ID:
<6Dekc.799$Kz2.82@newsfe1-win> wrote in alt.atheism;
stoney wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:37:54 GMT, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net>, Message ID:
<frvh80t9lpu5q3ieakj31u7qepmv594h8c@4ax.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:08:05 GMT, W. Syme
<Winston.Syme.superstitions@fastmail.fm> wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:51:14 GMT, *nemo*
<nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote:
His answer? "The universe was being prepared for us!"
The hubris of that idea is breathtaking.
Indeed. How exactly is a star 500 billion lightyears away being used
for our good?
Arthur C Clarke wrote a short story about a clergyman (chaplain? I
can't remember) who was on a space expedition to the remains of a
nova. They found the remains of a dead civilisation, on a dead
planet, who had gone deep underground to try and survive. He did his
sums and the punch-line was to ask why God had chosen to destroy a
civilisation to provide the bright start of Bethlehem.
http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?inkey=7-0312878605-4
The Collected Stories of Arthur C. Clarke
by Arthur C Clarke {contains all of them}
I vaguely remember that story.
I think the story was by James Blish.
That's possible, too.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "Puck Greenman" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution and the Big Bang |
02 May 2004 10:01:45 AM |
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On Sat, 01 May 2004 17:18:15 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:41:19 +0100, "Albert Jackaman"
<albert.jackaman@ntlworld.com>, Message ID:
<6Dekc.799$Kz2.82@newsfe1-win> wrote in alt.atheism;
stoney wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:37:54 GMT, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net>, Message ID:
<frvh80t9lpu5q3ieakj31u7qepmv594h8c@4ax.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:08:05 GMT, W. Syme
<Winston.Syme.superstitions@fastmail.fm> wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:51:14 GMT, *nemo*
<nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote:
His answer? "The universe was being prepared for us!"
The hubris of that idea is breathtaking.
Indeed. How exactly is a star 500 billion lightyears away being used
for our good?
Arthur C Clarke wrote a short story about a clergyman (chaplain? I
can't remember) who was on a space expedition to the remains of a
nova. They found the remains of a dead civilisation, on a dead
planet, who had gone deep underground to try and survive. He did his
sums and the punch-line was to ask why God had chosen to destroy a
civilisation to provide the bright start of Bethlehem.
http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?inkey=7-0312878605-4
The Collected Stories of Arthur C. Clarke
by Arthur C Clarke {contains all of them}
I vaguely remember that story.
I think the story was by James Blish.
That's possible, too.
The story is called "The Star".
I've zipped it, and posted it to alt.binaries.test. :-)
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution and the Big Bang |
04 May 2004 05:08:20 PM |
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On Sun, 02 May 2004 16:01:45 +0100, Puck Greenman <puck@pooks.hill.fey>,
Message ID: <i63a90liin7uvcevlj0dbo8hfjd2q7as9h@4ax.com> wrote in
alt.atheism;
On Sat, 01 May 2004 17:18:15 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:41:19 +0100, "Albert Jackaman"
<albert.jackaman@ntlworld.com>, Message ID:
<6Dekc.799$Kz2.82@newsfe1-win> wrote in alt.atheism;
stoney wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:37:54 GMT, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net>, Message ID:
<frvh80t9lpu5q3ieakj31u7qepmv594h8c@4ax.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:08:05 GMT, W. Syme
<Winston.Syme.superstitions@fastmail.fm> wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:51:14 GMT, *nemo*
<nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote:
His answer? "The universe was being prepared for us!"
The hubris of that idea is breathtaking.
Indeed. How exactly is a star 500 billion lightyears away being used
for our good?
Arthur C Clarke wrote a short story about a clergyman (chaplain? I
can't remember) who was on a space expedition to the remains of a
nova. They found the remains of a dead civilisation, on a dead
planet, who had gone deep underground to try and survive. He did his
sums and the punch-line was to ask why God had chosen to destroy a
civilisation to provide the bright start of Bethlehem.
http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?inkey=7-0312878605-4
The Collected Stories of Arthur C. Clarke
by Arthur C Clarke {contains all of them}
I vaguely remember that story.
I think the story was by James Blish.
That's possible, too.
The story is called "The Star".
I've zipped it, and posted it to alt.binaries.test. :-)
Sorry, Puck, there's no sign of it anywhere. :\
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: ATTN: Puck |
19 May 2004 09:46:52 AM |
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On Sun, 02 May 2004 16:01:45 +0100, Puck Greenman <puck@pooks.hill.fey>,
Message ID: <i63a90liin7uvcevlj0dbo8hfjd2q7as9h@4ax.com> wrote in
alt.atheism;
On Sat, 01 May 2004 17:18:15 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
[]
Arthur C Clarke wrote a short story about a clergyman (chaplain? I
can't remember) who was on a space expedition to the remains of a
nova. They found the remains of a dead civilisation, on a dead
planet, who had gone deep underground to try and survive. He did his
sums and the punch-line was to ask why God had chosen to destroy a
civilisation to provide the bright start of Bethlehem.
http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?inkey=7-0312878605-4
The Collected Stories of Arthur C. Clarke
by Arthur C Clarke {contains all of them}
I vaguely remember that story.
I think the story was by James Blish.
That's possible, too.
The story is called "The Star".
I've zipped it, and posted it to alt.binaries.test. :-)
Sorry, Puck, there's no sign of it anywhere. :\
Still no sign of it on may 19. Please send to:
nick+y at aemail4u dot com
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
.
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| User: "Xaonon" |
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| Title: ATTN: stoney |
19 May 2004 11:11:49 AM |
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Ned i bach <qjsma09mfc6ohur6240pvut00o5end6jeb@4ax.com>, stoney
<stoney@the.net> teithant i thiw hin:
On Sun, 02 May 2004 16:01:45 +0100, Puck Greenman <puck@pooks.hill.fey>,
Message ID: <i63a90liin7uvcevlj0dbo8hfjd2q7as9h@4ax.com> wrote in
alt.atheism;
The story is called "The Star".
I've zipped it, and posted it to alt.binaries.test. :-)
Sorry, Puck, there's no sign of it anywhere. :\
It just so happens I have a copy:
http://xaonon.dyndns.org/sekrit/the_star.txt
--
Xaonon, EAC Chief of Mad Scientists and informal BAAWA, aa #1821, Kibo #: 1
http://xaonon.dyndns.org/ Guaranteed content-free since 1999. No refunds.
"Is the surface of a planet the right place for an expanding industrial
civilisation?" -- Gerard K. O'Neill
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: ATTN: stoney |
20 May 2004 11:42:35 AM |
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On 19 May 2004 16:11:49 GMT, Xaonon <xaonon@hotpop.com>, Message ID:
<slrncan1n3.eir.xaonon@xaonon.local> wrote in alt.atheism;
Ned i bach <qjsma09mfc6ohur6240pvut00o5end6jeb@4ax.com>, stoney
<stoney@the.net> teithant i thiw hin:
On Sun, 02 May 2004 16:01:45 +0100, Puck Greenman <puck@pooks.hill.fey>,
Message ID: <i63a90liin7uvcevlj0dbo8hfjd2q7as9h@4ax.com> wrote in
alt.atheism;
The story is called "The Star".
I've zipped it, and posted it to alt.binaries.test. :-)
Sorry, Puck, there's no sign of it anywhere. :\
It just so happens I have a copy:
http://xaonon.dyndns.org/sekrit/the_star.txt
Ah, Thank you very much.... :)
Yes, I remember reading this long ago. I'd lay odds it's in one of the
books I have.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
.
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Two atheists on agnostics, afterlife, and evolution
Evolution Education Is A 'Must' Says Coalition Of Scientific And Teaching Organizations
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