| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"JOE" |
| Date: |
07 Nov 2005 01:34:25 PM |
| Object: |
Evolution in the bible, says Vatican |
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17162341-13762,00.html
The Australian
07-11-2005
Evolution in the bible, says Vatican
By Martin Penner
THE Vatican has issued a stout defence of Charles Darwin, voicing
strong criticism of Christian fundamentalists who reject his theory of
evolution and interpret the biblical account of creation literally.
Cardinal Paul Poupard, head of the Pontifical Council for Culture,
said the Genesis description of how God created the universe and
Darwin's theory of evolution were "perfectly compatible" if the Bible
were read correctly.
His statement was a clear attack on creationist campaigners in the US,
who see evolution and the Genesis account as mutually exclusive.
"The fundamentalists want to give a scientific meaning to words that
had no scientific aim," he said at a Vatican press conference. He said
the real message in Genesis was that "the universe didn't make itself
and had a creator".
This idea was part of theology, Cardinal Poupard emphasised, while the
precise details of how creation and the development of the species
came about belonged to a different realm - science. Cardinal Poupard
said that it was important for Catholic believers to know how science
saw things so as to "understand things better".
His statements were interpreted in Italy as a rejection of the
"intelligent design" view, which says the universe is so complex that
some higher being must have designed every detail.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution in the bible, says Vatican |
08 Nov 2005 04:14:24 PM |
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We don't care about the Roman Curia. It has always been on the wrong
side
of the truth. Remember Galileo. The very fact that the Roman Curia
endorses evolution is an evidence that it is evil and untrue.
The late Pope John Paul II put them in the hole of evolution by
endorsing it,
of course they would work hard to make us believe that evolution is
divine and
biblical just for the sake of their careers. But It is not.
Jesus existence disproves them and their EVOLUTION. It sounds like the
end of their CAREER is near.
.
VATICAN DOES NOT SPEAK FOR GOD
JOE wrote:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17162341-13762,00.html
The Australian
07-11-2005
Evolution in the bible, says Vatican
By Martin Penner
THE Vatican has issued a stout defence of Charles Darwin, voicing
strong criticism of Christian fundamentalists who reject his theory of
evolution and interpret the biblical account of creation literally.
Cardinal Paul Poupard, head of the Pontifical Council for Culture,
said the Genesis description of how God created the universe and
Darwin's theory of evolution were "perfectly compatible" if the Bible
were read correctly.
His statement was a clear attack on creationist campaigners in the US,
who see evolution and the Genesis account as mutually exclusive.
"The fundamentalists want to give a scientific meaning to words that
had no scientific aim," he said at a Vatican press conference. He said
the real message in Genesis was that "the universe didn't make itself
and had a creator".
This idea was part of theology, Cardinal Poupard emphasised, while the
precise details of how creation and the development of the species
came about belonged to a different realm - science. Cardinal Poupard
said that it was important for Catholic believers to know how science
saw things so as to "understand things better".
His statements were interpreted in Italy as a rejection of the
"intelligent design" view, which says the universe is so complex that
some higher being must have designed every detail.
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution in the bible, says Vatican |
08 Nov 2005 10:15:16 PM |
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wrote:
We don't care about the Roman Curia. It has always been on the wrong
side
of the truth. Remember Galileo. The very fact that the Roman Curia
endorses evolution is an evidence that it is evil and untrue.
The late Pope John Paul II put them in the hole of evolution by
endorsing it,
of course they would work hard to make us believe that evolution is
divine and
biblical just for the sake of their careers. But It is not.
Jesus existence disproves them and their EVOLUTION. It sounds like the
end of their CAREER is near.
.
VATICAN DOES NOT SPEAK FOR GOD
===>Lots of people have claimed and are claiming that
they do, but it is always a LIE! -- L.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution in the bible, says Vatican |
07 Nov 2005 06:40:54 PM |
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Why should we care about what the VATICAN says.
Charles Darwin just came along and the Bible has been around
for 2000 years in the Vatican priests hands. Are they less
smart than Charles Darwin. Why were they unable to come up
with the theory of EVOLUTION which has been in the Bible for so long?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Who do they think make these changes?
They run after a world power and they found themselves chased
by the hog of evolution.
They should be careful about what they want."
JOE wrote:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17162341-13762,00.html
The Australian
07-11-2005
Evolution in the bible, says Vatican
By Martin Penner
THE Vatican has issued a stout defence of Charles Darwin, voicing
strong criticism of Christian fundamentalists who reject his theory of
evolution and interpret the biblical account of creation literally.
Cardinal Paul Poupard, head of the Pontifical Council for Culture,
said the Genesis description of how God created the universe and
Darwin's theory of evolution were "perfectly compatible" if the Bible
were read correctly.
His statement was a clear attack on creationist campaigners in the US,
who see evolution and the Genesis account as mutually exclusive.
"The fundamentalists want to give a scientific meaning to words that
had no scientific aim," he said at a Vatican press conference. He said
the real message in Genesis was that "the universe didn't make itself
and had a creator".
This idea was part of theology, Cardinal Poupard emphasised, while the
precise details of how creation and the development of the species
came about belonged to a different realm - science. Cardinal Poupard
said that it was important for Catholic believers to know how science
saw things so as to "understand things better".
His statements were interpreted in Italy as a rejection of the
"intelligent design" view, which says the universe is so complex that
some higher being must have designed every detail.
.
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| User: "Zadok" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution in the bible, says Vatican |
07 Nov 2005 02:19:49 PM |
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"JOE" <> wrote in message
The Australian
07-11-2005
Evolution in the bible, says Vatican
By Martin Penner
THE Vatican has issued a stout defence of Charles Darwin, voicing
strong criticism of Christian fundamentalists who reject his theory of
evolution and interpret the biblical account of creation literally.
Seems the vatican has been reading Dickie Dawkins' posts and decided enough
of Dickie's crap.
Time to bring the hammer down on the Rayturd!!
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution in the bible, says Vatican -- REAL "BIBLE" |
07 Nov 2005 03:21:52 PM |
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JOE wrote:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17162341-13762,00.html
The Australian
07-11-2005
Evolution in the bible, says Vatican
By Martin Penner
THE Vatican has issued a stout defence of Charles Darwin, voicing
strong criticism of Christian fundamentalists who reject his theory of
evolution and interpret the biblical account of creation literally.
Cardinal Paul Poupard, head of the Pontifical Council for Culture,
said the Genesis description of how God created the universe and
Darwin's theory of evolution were "perfectly compatible" if the Bible
were read correctly.
His statement was a clear attack on creationist campaigners in the US,
who see evolution and the Genesis account as mutually exclusive.
"The fundamentalists want to give a scientific meaning to words that
had no scientific aim," he said at a Vatican press conference. He said
the real message in Genesis was that "the universe didn't make itself
and had a creator".
This idea was part of theology, Cardinal Poupard emphasised, while the
precise details of how creation and the development of the species
came about belonged to a different realm - science. Cardinal Poupard
said that it was important for Catholic believers to know how science
saw things so as to "understand things better".
His statements were interpreted in Italy as a rejection of the
"intelligent design" view, which says the universe is so complex that
some higher being must have designed every detail.
Lon, long ago some Church authorities produced a book in which they
edited and compiled numerous ancient pieces of writings, they called it
the "BIBLE". However, it is becoming clear that they limited the knowledge
available to people.
Actually, the real "BIBLE" consists not just of those few books found
in the Christian collection, but of ALL BOOKS (Greek "biblia",
as in "biblioteka" - a library) indeed ALL THE WRITINGS EVER
PRODUCED BY HUMAN WRITERS.
In THAT sense, of course, the "BIBLE" is constantly being "updated". -- L.
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| User: "Midjis" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution in the bible, says Vatican -- REAL "BIBLE" |
07 Nov 2005 06:35:12 PM |
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Libertarius <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
Actually, the real "BIBLE" consists not just of those few books found
in the Christian collection, but of ALL BOOKS (Greek "biblia",
as in "biblioteka" - a library) indeed ALL THE WRITINGS EVER
PRODUCED BY HUMAN WRITERS.
In THAT sense, of course, the "BIBLE" is constantly being "updated".
-- L.
Interesting point of view. Makes sense.
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution in the bible, says Vatican -- REAL "BIBLE" |
08 Nov 2005 02:43:16 PM |
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Midjis wrote:
Libertarius <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
Actually, the real "BIBLE" consists not just of those few books found
in the Christian collection, but of ALL BOOKS (Greek "biblia",
as in "biblioteka" - a library) indeed ALL THE WRITINGS EVER
PRODUCED BY HUMAN WRITERS.
In THAT sense, of course, the "BIBLE" is constantly being "updated".
-- L.
Interesting point of view. Makes sense.
===>Thank you. -- L.
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| User: "awthrawthr" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution in the bible, says Vatican |
13 Nov 2005 02:26:30 PM |
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JOE wrote:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17162341-13762,00.html
The Australian
07-11-2005
Evolution in the bible, says Vatican
By Martin Penner
THE Vatican has issued a stout defence of Charles Darwin, voicing
strong criticism of Christian fundamentalists who reject his theory of
evolution and interpret the biblical account of creation literally.
I think you are mistaken. While the Vatican has said the Bible is
compatible with evolution, that does not mean the Vatican has endorsed
the Darwin brand of evolutionary theory.
Cardinal Paul Poupard, head of the Pontifical Council for Culture,
said the Genesis description of how God created the universe and
Darwin's theory of evolution were "perfectly compatible" if the Bible
were read correctly.
His statement was a clear attack on creationist campaigners in the US,
who see evolution and the Genesis account as mutually exclusive.
"The fundamentalists want to give a scientific meaning to words that
had no scientific aim," he said at a Vatican press conference. He said
the real message in Genesis was that "the universe didn't make itself
and had a creator".
This idea was part of theology, Cardinal Poupard emphasised, while the
precise details of how creation and the development of the species
came about belonged to a different realm - science. Cardinal Poupard
said that it was important for Catholic believers to know how science
saw things so as to "understand things better".
His statements were interpreted in Italy as a rejection of the
"intelligent design" view, which says the universe is so complex that
some higher being must have designed every detail.
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution in the bible, says Vatican |
13 Nov 2005 04:13:40 PM |
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On 13 Nov 2005 12:26:30 -0800, "awthrawthr"
<awthrawthr@yahoo.com> spake thusly:
JOE wrote:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17162341-13762,00.html
The Australian
07-11-2005
Evolution in the bible, says Vatican
By Martin Penner
THE Vatican has issued a stout defence of Charles Darwin, voicing
strong criticism of Christian fundamentalists who reject his theory of
evolution and interpret the biblical account of creation literally.
I think you are mistaken. While the Vatican has said the Bible is
compatible with evolution,
And this just shows the foolishness of the RCC.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
1st Century Church of Christ
Preaching the truth of Scripture,
from Creation to Revelation!
http://home.tampabay.rr.com/1stcentury
The way of a fool is right in his own eyes,
But he who hates correction is stupid.
Go from the presence of a foolish man,
When you do not perceive in him the lips of knowledge.
He who despises the word will be destroyed.
- Proverbs (assorted)
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| User: "David W. Barnes" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution in the bible, says Vatican |
13 Nov 2005 04:16:53 PM |
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In article <qjefn1pkbf5nsl24adnoevtc43ckk0ichv@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave
<1news-group-mail1@nospam-tampa-bay.rr.com> wrote:
On 13 Nov 2005 12:26:30 -0800, "awthrawthr"
<awthrawthr@yahoo.com> spake thusly:
JOE wrote:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17162341-13762,00.html
The Australian
07-11-2005
Evolution in the bible, says Vatican
By Martin Penner
THE Vatican has issued a stout defence of Charles Darwin, voicing
strong criticism of Christian fundamentalists who reject his theory of
evolution and interpret the biblical account of creation literally.
I think you are mistaken. While the Vatican has said the Bible is
compatible with evolution,
And this just shows the foolishness of the RCC.
Everyone is wrong but you.
.
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution in the bible, says Vatican |
13 Nov 2005 07:42:45 PM |
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On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 22:16:53 GMT, in alt.atheism
"David W. Barnes" <dbarnes@aol.com> wrote in
<131120051416533383%dbarnes@aol.com>:
In article <qjefn1pkbf5nsl24adnoevtc43ckk0ichv@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave
<1news-group-mail1@nospam-tampa-bay.rr.com> wrote:
On 13 Nov 2005 12:26:30 -0800, "awthrawthr"
<awthrawthr@yahoo.com> spake thusly:
JOE wrote:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17162341-13762,00.html
The Australian
07-11-2005
Evolution in the bible, says Vatican
By Martin Penner
THE Vatican has issued a stout defence of Charles Darwin, voicing
strong criticism of Christian fundamentalists who reject his theory of
evolution and interpret the biblical account of creation literally.
I think you are mistaken. While the Vatican has said the Bible is
compatible with evolution,
And this just shows the foolishness of the RCC.
Everyone is wrong but you.
That pretty well summarizes all of his posts.
.
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| User: "David W. Barnes" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution in the bible, says Vatican |
13 Nov 2005 09:53:44 PM |
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In article <vrqfn15uhk48kqq0j2n4j39d82530lic8l@4ax.com>, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 22:16:53 GMT, in alt.atheism
"David W. Barnes" <dbarnes@aol.com> wrote in
<131120051416533383%dbarnes@aol.com>:
In article <qjefn1pkbf5nsl24adnoevtc43ckk0ichv@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave
<1news-group-mail1@nospam-tampa-bay.rr.com> wrote:
On 13 Nov 2005 12:26:30 -0800, "awthrawthr"
<awthrawthr@yahoo.com> spake thusly:
JOE wrote:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17162341-13762,00.html
The Australian
07-11-2005
Evolution in the bible, says Vatican
By Martin Penner
THE Vatican has issued a stout defence of Charles Darwin, voicing
strong criticism of Christian fundamentalists who reject his theory of
evolution and interpret the biblical account of creation literally.
I think you are mistaken. While the Vatican has said the Bible is
compatible with evolution,
And this just shows the foolishness of the RCC.
Everyone is wrong but you.
That pretty well summarizes all of his posts.
I guess when you believe you have one on one conversations with God,
that pretty much does it.
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution in the bible, says Vatican |
14 Nov 2005 05:18:18 AM |
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On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 03:53:44 GMT, "David W. Barnes" <dbarnes@aol.com>
in alt.abortion with message-id <131120051953445803%dbarnes@aol.com>
wrote:
Everyone is wrong but you.
That pretty well summarizes all of his posts.
I guess when you believe you have one on one conversations with God,
that pretty much does it.
Nuts don't need religion to make them nuts but it does seem
to give them a certain added sense of commitment to whatever
goals their nutdom decides to embrace.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution in the bible, says Vatican |
13 Nov 2005 02:41:05 PM |
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awthrawthr wrote:
JOE wrote:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17162341-13762,00.html
The Australian
07-11-2005
Evolution in the bible, says Vatican
By Martin Penner
THE Vatican has issued a stout defence of Charles Darwin, voicing
strong criticism of Christian fundamentalists who reject his theory
of evolution and interpret the biblical account of creation
literally.
I think you are mistaken. While the Vatican has said the Bible is
compatible with evolution, that does not mean the Vatican has endorsed
the Darwin brand of evolutionary theory.
My last experience with RCC religion was in 1957 while a junior in a private
Jesuit high school.
They taught that all we had to do was accept that god at some point put a
soul in a body.
Religion was never mentioned in other classes. It was limited to a short
class three or two times a week with a speech class two or three times a
week.
They accepted Darwins theory and knew enough about science to know that then
as now there are no other versions of evolution that qualify as a theory.
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| User: "Matt Giwer" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution in the bible, says Vatican |
07 Nov 2005 09:37:26 PM |
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JOE wrote:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17162341-13762,00.html
The Australian
07-11-2005
Evolution in the bible, says Vatican
By Martin Penner
THE Vatican has issued a stout defence of Charles Darwin, voicing
strong criticism of Christian fundamentalists who reject his theory of
evolution and interpret the biblical account of creation literally.
Cardinal Paul Poupard, head of the Pontifical Council for Culture,
said the Genesis description of how God created the universe and
Darwin's theory of evolution were "perfectly compatible" if the Bible
were read correctly.
To the atheist skeptic the greatest argument against current cosmology and evolution is that it is
so close to the bible creation stories.
Of course literalism is worse so there is no really an issue.
--
Believers must first demonstrate there are gods, then that there
is only one, then that they have the right one, and finally that
they are members of the approved denomination.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3509
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
book review http://www.giwersworld.org/israel/willing-executioners.phtml a7
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| User: "Mimi Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution in the bible, says Vatican |
07 Nov 2005 05:22:34 PM |
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JOE wrote:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17162341-13762,00.html
The Australian
07-11-2005
Evolution in the bible, says Vatican
By Martin Penner
THE Vatican has issued a stout defence of Charles Darwin, voicing
strong criticism of Christian fundamentalists who reject his theory of
evolution and interpret the biblical account of creation literally.
Cardinal Paul Poupard, head of the Pontifical Council for Culture,
said the Genesis description of how God created the universe and
Darwin's theory of evolution were "perfectly compatible" if the Bible
were read correctly.
His statement was a clear attack on creationist campaigners in the US,
who see evolution and the Genesis account as mutually exclusive.
"The fundamentalists want to give a scientific meaning to words that
had no scientific aim," he said at a Vatican press conference. He said
the real message in Genesis was that "the universe didn't make itself
and had a creator".
This idea was part of theology, Cardinal Poupard emphasised, while the
precise details of how creation and the development of the species
came about belonged to a different realm - science. Cardinal Poupard
said that it was important for Catholic believers to know how science
saw things so as to "understand things better".
His statements were interpreted in Italy as a rejection of the
"intelligent design" view, which says the universe is so complex that
some higher being must have designed every detail.
In the same way that the parents of a 2 year old child don't explain the
biological process of reproduction but instead say "you came from our
love" when asked by said 2 year old "where did I come from?", the
"creation story" was g-d's way of saying "you came from my love" to the
very unscientific, primitive mind of Moses.
.
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| User: "Midjis" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution in the bible, says Vatican |
07 Nov 2005 06:36:43 PM |
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Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote:
In the same way that the parents of a 2 year old child don't explain the
biological process of reproduction but instead say "you came from our
love" when asked by said 2 year old "where did I come from?", the
"creation story" was g-d's way of saying "you came from my love" to the
very unscientific, primitive mind of Moses.
CAUTION: This thread contains dangerous levels of common sense.
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| User: "Icarus" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution in the bible, says Vatican |
07 Nov 2005 06:48:45 PM |
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Mimi Cohen wrote:
In the same way that the parents of a 2 year old child don't
explain the biological process of reproduction but instead say
"you came from our love" when asked by said 2 year old "where
did I come from?", the "creation story" was g-d's way of
saying "you came from my love" to the very unscientific,
primitive mind of Moses.
The ancient Greeks taught themselves to be scientific all on their
own, hundreds of years BC. They figured out the size and shape of the
Earth, the existence of atoms, the nature of the moon, relative
distances of the moon and sun, and many other things. You're saying
that a supreme being couldn't make Moses as scientific as the ancient
Greeks were capable of making *themselves*? How ridiculous...
.
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| User: "osprey" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution in the bible, says Vatican |
07 Nov 2005 07:28:11 PM |
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"Icarus" <icarus_uk@email.com> wrote in message
news:3tabo3Frg773U1@individual.net...
Mimi Cohen wrote:
In the same way that the parents of a 2 year old child don't
explain the biological process of reproduction but instead say
"you came from our love" when asked by said 2 year old "where
did I come from?", the "creation story" was g-d's way of
saying "you came from my love" to the very unscientific,
primitive mind of Moses.
The ancient Greeks taught themselves to be scientific all on their
own, hundreds of years BC. They figured out the size and shape of the
Earth, the existence of atoms, the nature of the moon, relative
distances of the moon and sun, and many other things.
While I am aware that the Greeks are probably one of the first civilizations
to begin using logic, I was not aware that they discovered the existence of
atoms. Do you have any more information on that discovery?
You're saying
that a supreme being couldn't make Moses as scientific as the ancient
Greeks were capable of making *themselves*? How ridiculous...
.
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| User: "Rick Russell" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution in the bible, says Vatican |
07 Nov 2005 09:02:50 PM |
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In article <0uWdnZlTW4klY_LeRVn-jA@comcast.com>,
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
While I am aware that the Greeks are probably one of the first civilizations
to begin using logic, I was not aware that they discovered the existence of
atoms. Do you have any more information on that discovery?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democritus
It was less a discovery, and more a philiosophy. It wasn't supported
by evidence at the time.
Rick R.
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| User: "Icarus" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution in the bible, says Vatican |
08 Nov 2005 03:31:36 AM |
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osprey wrote:
"Icarus" <icarus_uk@email.com> wrote in message
news:3tabo3Frg773U1@individual.net...
Mimi Cohen wrote:
In the same way that the parents of a 2 year old child don't
explain the biological process of reproduction but instead say
"you came from our love" when asked by said 2 year old "where
did I come from?", the "creation story" was g-d's way of
saying "you came from my love" to the very unscientific,
primitive mind of Moses.
The ancient Greeks taught themselves to be scientific all on their
own, hundreds of years BC. They figured out the size and shape of
the Earth, the existence of atoms, the nature of the moon, relative
distances of the moon and sun, and many other things.
While I am aware that the Greeks are probably one of the first
civilizations to begin using logic, I was not aware that they
discovered the existence of atoms. Do you have any more information
on that discovery?
I stand corrected - It was, as Rick says, a philosophy rather than a
discovery supported by evidence. Nevertheless, it shows that people
thousands of years ago were not significantly less capable of understanding
scientific concepts than we are today.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution in the bible, says Vatican |
08 Nov 2005 10:00:33 AM |
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osprey wrote:
"Icarus" <icarus_uk@email.com> wrote in message
news:3tabo3Frg773U1@individual.net...
Mimi Cohen wrote:
In the same way that the parents of a 2 year old child don't
explain the biological process of reproduction but instead say
"you came from our love" when asked by said 2 year old "where
did I come from?", the "creation story" was g-d's way of
saying "you came from my love" to the very unscientific,
primitive mind of Moses.
The ancient Greeks taught themselves to be scientific all on their
own, hundreds of years BC. They figured out the size and shape of the
Earth, the existence of atoms, the nature of the moon, relative
distances of the moon and sun, and many other things.
While I am aware that the Greeks are probably one of the first civilizations
to begin using logic, I was not aware that they discovered the existence of
atoms. Do you have any more information on that discovery?
"===>From the Greek A-TOMOS=Non-divisible.
"The first "atomic theorists" we have any record of were two fifth-century
BC Greeks, Leucippus of Miletus (a town now in Turkey) and Democritus
of Abdera. Their theories were naturally more philosophical than experimental in
origin. The basic idea was that if you could look at matter on smaller and
smaller
scales (which they of course couldn't) ultimately you would see individual atoms
-
objects that could not be divided further (that was the definition of
atom). Everything was made up of these atoms, which moved around in a void
(a vacuum). The different physical properties -- color, taste, and so on -- of
materials came about because atoms in them had different shapes and/or
arrangements and orientations with respect to each other."
(FROM: Evolution of the Atomic Concept
and the Beginnings of Modern Chemistry
Michael Fowler, University of Virginia) -- L.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution in the bible, says Vatican |
07 Nov 2005 11:47:10 PM |
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Icarus <icarus_uk@email.com> wrote:
Mimi Cohen wrote:
In the same way that the parents of a 2 year old child don't
explain the biological process of reproduction but instead say
"you came from our love" when asked by said 2 year old "where
did I come from?", the "creation story" was g-d's way of
saying "you came from my love" to the very unscientific,
primitive mind of Moses.
The ancient Greeks taught themselves to be scientific all on their
own, hundreds of years BC. They figured out the size and shape of the
Earth, the existence of atoms, the nature of the moon, relative
distances of the moon and sun, and many other things. You're saying
that a supreme being couldn't make Moses as scientific as the ancient
Greeks were capable of making *themselves*?
Not "couldn't".
"Didn't"
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution in the bible, says Vatican |
08 Nov 2005 02:38:32 PM |
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Ray Fischer wrote:
Icarus <icarus_uk@email.com> wrote:
Mimi Cohen wrote:
In the same way that the parents of a 2 year old child don't
explain the biological process of reproduction but instead say
"you came from our love" when asked by said 2 year old "where
did I come from?", the "creation story" was g-d's way of
saying "you came from my love" to the very unscientific,
primitive mind of Moses.
The ancient Greeks taught themselves to be scientific all on their
own, hundreds of years BC. They figured out the size and shape of the
Earth, the existence of atoms, the nature of the moon, relative
distances of the moon and sun, and many other things. You're saying
that a supreme being couldn't make Moses as scientific as the ancient
Greeks were capable of making *themselves*?
Not "couldn't".
"Didn't"
===>Of course, since the "supreme being" was just the chosen
imaginary deity of the Hebrews, just like Chemosh was of the
Moabites, etc. Those deities didn't know, couldn't know anything
more than what their priests and storytellers knew. -- L.
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution in the bible, says Vatican |
08 Nov 2005 09:50:52 AM |
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Icarus wrote:
Mimi Cohen wrote:
In the same way that the parents of a 2 year old child don't
explain the biological process of reproduction but instead say
"you came from our love" when asked by said 2 year old "where
did I come from?", the "creation story" was g-d's way of
saying "you came from my love" to the very unscientific,
primitive mind of Moses.
The ancient Greeks taught themselves to be scientific all on their
own, hundreds of years BC. They figured out the size and shape of the
Earth, the existence of atoms, the nature of the moon, relative
distances of the moon and sun, and many other things. You're saying
that a supreme being couldn't make Moses as scientific as the ancient
Greeks were capable of making *themselves*? How ridiculous...
===>The basis of that ridiculous thinking is the
"Chariots of the Gods" philosophy, i.e.
that human ideas had to come from extraterrestrial
beings. In fact the authors of the books
compiled in the Bible were simple human
writers discussing their own ideas, opinions, speculations and
fantasies, which they sometimes attributed to a "God" for
stronger effect. -- L.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution in the bible, says Vatican |
08 Nov 2005 03:15:30 AM |
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On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 00:48:45 -0000, "Icarus" <icarus_uk@email.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id <3tabo3Frg773U1@individual.net> wrote:
Mimi Cohen wrote:
In the same way that the parents of a 2 year old child don't
explain the biological process of reproduction but instead say
"you came from our love" when asked by said 2 year old "where
did I come from?", the "creation story" was g-d's way of
saying "you came from my love" to the very unscientific,
primitive mind of Moses.
The ancient Greeks taught themselves to be scientific all on their
own, hundreds of years BC. They figured out the size and shape of the
Earth, the existence of atoms, the nature of the moon, relative
distances of the moon and sun, and many other things. You're saying
that a supreme being couldn't make Moses as scientific as the ancient
Greeks were capable of making *themselves*? How ridiculous...
You are speculating about the abilities of something that has not been
proven to exist and that can literally do anything that is needed for
it to do since there is no way to verify what it does or does not do.
Or even prove it does anything at all.
This is science? It is not even sane.
.
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution in the bible, says Vatican |
07 Nov 2005 07:27:17 PM |
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On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 00:48:45 -0000, in alt.atheism
"Icarus" <icarus_uk@email.com> wrote in <3tabo3Frg773U1@individual.net>:
Mimi Cohen wrote:
In the same way that the parents of a 2 year old child don't
explain the biological process of reproduction but instead say
"you came from our love" when asked by said 2 year old "where
did I come from?", the "creation story" was g-d's way of
saying "you came from my love" to the very unscientific,
primitive mind of Moses.
The ancient Greeks taught themselves to be scientific all on their
own, hundreds of years BC. They figured out the size and shape of the
Earth, the existence of atoms, the nature of the moon, relative
distances of the moon and sun, and many other things. You're saying
that a supreme being couldn't make Moses as scientific as the ancient
Greeks were capable of making *themselves*? How ridiculous...
Is there really any reason to think that Moses actually existed?
.
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| User: "osprey" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution in the bible, says Vatican |
07 Nov 2005 07:33:39 PM |
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"David Jensen" <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in message
news:0nvvm11mp5k3resp7tscqveopk0chf0asn@4ax.com...
On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 00:48:45 -0000, in alt.atheism
"Icarus" <icarus_uk@email.com> wrote in <3tabo3Frg773U1@individual.net>:
Mimi Cohen wrote:
In the same way that the parents of a 2 year old child don't
explain the biological process of reproduction but instead say
"you came from our love" when asked by said 2 year old "where
did I come from?", the "creation story" was g-d's way of
saying "you came from my love" to the very unscientific,
primitive mind of Moses.
The ancient Greeks taught themselves to be scientific all on their
own, hundreds of years BC. They figured out the size and shape of the
Earth, the existence of atoms, the nature of the moon, relative
distances of the moon and sun, and many other things. You're saying
that a supreme being couldn't make Moses as scientific as the ancient
Greeks were capable of making *themselves*? How ridiculous...
Is there really any reason to think that Moses actually existed?
Is there really any reason not too?
.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution in the bible, says Vatican |
08 Nov 2005 04:59:21 AM |
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On Mon, 7 Nov 2005 20:33:39 -0500, "osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com>
wrote:
"David Jensen" <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in message
news:0nvvm11mp5k3resp7tscqveopk0chf0asn@4ax.com...
On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 00:48:45 -0000, in alt.atheism
"Icarus" <icarus_uk@email.com> wrote in <3tabo3Frg773U1@individual.net>:
Mimi Cohen wrote:
In the same way that the parents of a 2 year old child don't
explain the biological process of reproduction but instead say
"you came from our love" when asked by said 2 year old "where
did I come from?", the "creation story" was g-d's way of
saying "you came from my love" to the very unscientific,
primitive mind of Moses.
The ancient Greeks taught themselves to be scientific all on their
own, hundreds of years BC. They figured out the size and shape of the
Earth, the existence of atoms, the nature of the moon, relative
distances of the moon and sun, and many other things. You're saying
that a supreme being couldn't make Moses as scientific as the ancient
Greeks were capable of making *themselves*? How ridiculous...
Is there really any reason to think that Moses actually existed?
Is there really any reason not too?
Yes.
Total lack of historical or archeological record. The egyptians were
keen recoders of their history filling walls with the stuff. You might
have thought they would have at least mentioned that all their
first born were all murdered en-mass one night, or that a Pharoh
and all his army were mysteriously drowned. That they did not
is clear evidence that these things did not happen. I guess the
ancient Iraelite chroniclers who madeup all this stuff for the
consumption of themselves up did not realise that somebody
in the distant future might eventually question what they wrote.
Perhaps they did not care?
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution in the bible, says Vatican |
08 Nov 2005 05:30:29 AM |
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On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 10:59:21 +0000, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Mon, 7 Nov 2005 20:33:39 -0500, "osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com>
wrote:
"David Jensen" <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in message
news:0nvvm11mp5k3resp7tscqveopk0chf0asn@4ax.com...
On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 00:48:45 -0000, in alt.atheism
"Icarus" <icarus_uk@email.com> wrote in <3tabo3Frg773U1@individual.net>:
Mimi Cohen wrote:
In the same way that the parents of a 2 year old child don't
explain the biological process of reproduction but instead say
"you came from our love" when asked by said 2 year old "where
did I come from?", the "creation story" was g-d's way of
saying "you came from my love" to the very unscientific,
primitive mind of Moses.
The ancient Greeks taught themselves to be scientific all on their
own, hundreds of years BC. They figured out the size and shape of the
Earth, the existence of atoms, the nature of the moon, relative
distances of the moon and sun, and many other things. You're saying
that a supreme being couldn't make Moses as scientific as the ancient
Greeks were capable of making *themselves*? How ridiculous...
Is there really any reason to think that Moses actually existed?
Is there really any reason not too?
Yes.
Total lack of historical or archeological record. The egyptians were
keen recoders of their history filling walls with the stuff. You might
have thought they would have at least mentioned that all their
first born were all murdered en-mass one night, or that a Pharoh
and all his army were mysteriously drowned. That they did not
is clear evidence that these things did not happen. I guess the
ancient Iraelite chroniclers who madeup all this stuff for the
consumption of themselves up did not realise that somebody
in the distant future might eventually question what they wrote.
Perhaps they did not care?
I'm on your side, but the Egyptians were well known for recording only
the good things that happened to their royalty, and inventing that
which did not.
If you can read the heiroglyphic records, no King ever lost a single
battle. In fact, they never even looked like doing so.
There are encounters with the Hittites that were recorded by both
sides, and reading them, one wonders if the recorders for the
protagonists were at the same battle.
They must have hired prototype FOX reporters, twisting facts, and
omitting much that was relevant, in order to make an incompetant and
feeble despot look like a hero.
Now if only I could remember what the demotic was for "Mission
Acomplished"...
.
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