| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Gactimus" |
| Date: |
07 Aug 2004 05:25:08 AM |
| Object: |
Evolution is really sun worship |
Evolution actually involves much more than life arising from non-life by
natural means. Evolution really does away with God and thus allows people to
explain their existence without any supernatural being involved.
In fact, evolution is a whole philosophy of life which teaches that man by
himself can determine truth—that there is no God. In other words, they
believe that life can be explained solely on the basis of what they see
acting around them today. In essence, this is their religion!
Part of the evolutionist’s religion is that energy from the sun—acting on a
primeval soup millions of years ago—caused the first life-forms to emerge.
Thus, they believe that the sun really gave birth to living things. They are
really giving glory to the sun’s energy for life.
Down through the ages, culture after culture has worshipped the sun. If you
recall, the Israelites were warned not to worship the sun like the pagan
nations around them.
Scientists may claim that evolution has nothing to do with religion, but it
is their religion to worship creation instead of the God who created the sun
and all life.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is really sun worship |
07 Aug 2004 06:54:54 AM |
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"Gactimus" <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote
[---troll droppings deleted---]
Crossposted to:
alt.spacebastards
alt.startrek
comp.sys.mac.advocacy
alt.os.windows-xp
sci.astro
alt.talk.creationism
alt.atheism
alt.abortion
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| User: "Snit" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is really sun worship |
07 Aug 2004 10:27:44 AM |
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"Gactimus" <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in
9bf3580f51005baffb02db69e726f58e@news.bubbanews.com on 8/7/04 3:25 AM:
Evolution actually involves much more than life arising from non-life by
natural means. Evolution really does away with God and thus allows people to
explain their existence without any supernatural being involved.
How do you figure evolution means "away from God". Just because a theory
does not include some all powerful being does not mean that is the way to
define the theory. Would you say evolution is also away from Satan, Buddha,
and the Jolly Green Giant?
In fact, evolution is a whole philosophy of life which teaches that man by
himself can determine truth—that there is no God.
Can you support this?
In other words, they believe that life can be explained solely on the basis of
what they see acting around them today. In essence, this is their religion!
Please define how you are using the word "religion" in this context.
Part of the evolutionist’s religion is that energy from the sun—acting on a
primeval soup millions of years ago—caused the first life-forms to emerge.
Thus, they believe that the sun really gave birth to living things. They are
really giving glory to the sun’s energy for life.
The sun played a part - but why not call it "primeval soup" worship... your
reasoning is nonsensical it seems.
Down through the ages, culture after culture has worshipped the sun. If you
recall, the Israelites were warned not to worship the sun like the pagan
nations around them.
Scientists may claim that evolution has nothing to do with religion, but it
is their religion to worship creation instead of the God who created the sun
and all life.
Again, please define how you are using the word "religion".
--
"If A = B and B = C, then A = C, except where void or prohibited by law."
Roy Santoro, Psycho Proverb Zone (http://smallurl.com/?i=15235)
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| User: "Jonathan" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is really sun worship |
12 Aug 2004 06:37:10 PM |
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"Gactimus" <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in message
news:9bf3580f51005baffb02db69e726f58e@news.bubbanews.com...
Evolution actually involves much more than life arising from non-life by
natural means. Evolution really does away with God and thus allows people to
explain their existence without any supernatural being involved.
No, evolution simply changes the definition of God. To a concept
that is rational and testable.
Evolution is now modeled by a new abstract mathematics. The science
of self-organizing systems, complexity science. This math shows that
evolution applies also to ...non-living systems. This discovery means
that the transition from geology to biology is seamless and
inevitable.
But what this also means is that the tendencies of evolution are
far stronger and more pervasive than even committed Darwinists
would assert.
So now we can redefine God into a concept that makes complete
sense. If evolution is a far greater force for organization, then
projecting those forces in the ....future....instead of looking
back, gives us an idea of the nature of God.
A naturally evolving intelligence, born of collective wisdom, that
is as high above us as we are above animals. An intelligence and
wisdom with the powers of creation, a God that comes at
the....end...of the evolutionary ladder.
Not the beginning.
To find God merely look into the mirror, and using Nature
as a guide, imagine what humanity could become!
Nature guarantees an inevitable final state far greater than
any future we can now imagine. This added strength to
evolution given by complexity science also shows that the
universe is full of life, or will be.
It's a mathematical certainty that God exists, or will.
The math is all here if you don't believe me.
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~quee0818/complexity/complexity.html
http://www.calresco.org/sos/sosfaq.htm
http://www.necsi.org/publications/dcs/
Jonathan
"I Never saw a moor,
I never saw the sea;
Yet know I how the heather looks,
And what a wave must be.
I never spoke with God,
Nor visited in heaven;
Yet certain am I of the spot
As if the chart were given."
By E Dickinson
s
In fact, evolution is a whole philosophy of life which teaches that man by
himself can determine truth-that there is no God. In other words, they
believe that life can be explained solely on the basis of what they see
acting around them today. In essence, this is their religion!
Part of the evolutionist's religion is that energy from the sun-acting on a
primeval soup millions of years ago-caused the first life-forms to emerge.
Thus, they believe that the sun really gave birth to living things. They are
really giving glory to the sun's energy for life.
Down through the ages, culture after culture has worshipped the sun. If you
recall, the Israelites were warned not to worship the sun like the pagan
nations around them.
Scientists may claim that evolution has nothing to do with religion, but it
is their religion to worship creation instead of the God who created the sun
and all life.
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| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is really sun worship |
07 Aug 2004 02:35:22 PM |
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Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in
news:9bf3580f51005baffb02db69e726f58e@news.bubbanews.com:
Evolution actually involves much more than life arising from non-life
by natural means. Evolution really does away with God and thus allows
people to explain their existence without any supernatural being
involved.
It didn't take evolution to do that.
In fact, evolution is a whole philosophy of life which teaches that
man by himself can determine truth—that there is no God. In other
words, they believe that life can be explained solely on the basis of
what they see acting around them today. In essence, this is their
religion!
Evolution is the scientific theory of how life became diversified. Why
are you lying about it? Is the devil trying to stir up enmity between
the Church and science again?
Part of the evolutionist’s religion is that energy from the sun—acting
on a primeval soup millions of years ago—caused the first life-forms
to emerge. Thus, they believe that the sun really gave birth to living
things. They are really giving glory to the sun’s energy for life.
Uh, the sun's energy exists. It accounts for the food you eat. Noticing
this is not "worship." Nor does it mean that the people who do notice it
are regarding the sun as a god. However YOU are regarding the father of
lies as a god by perpetuating your blasphemies in here, bearing false
witness in God's name. That is a sin and you should know where liars end
up.
Down through the ages, culture after culture has worshipped the sun.
If you recall, the Israelites were warned not to worship the sun like
the pagan nations around them.
That's true, but modern science does not treat the sun as a god. It is
merely (as Eratosthenes first theorized about 2200 years ago, a large
ball of fire--well plasma. Today we know it's mostly hydrogen.
Scientists may claim that evolution has nothing to do with religion,
but it is their religion to worship creation instead of the God who
created the sun and all life.
No, it is YOUR religion to lie about scientists you don't even know. Who
told you to do that? What scriptures can you possibly cite to justify
your behaviour? Why shouldn't we excommunicate you as a blasphemer?
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
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| User: "VangOoderlang" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is really sun worship |
07 Aug 2004 12:20:08 PM |
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Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in message news:<9bf3580f51005baffb02db69e726f58e@news.bubbanews.com>...
Evolution actually involves much more than life arising from non-life by
natural means. Evolution really does away with God and thus allows people to
explain their existence without any supernatural being involved.
In fact, evolution is a whole philosophy of life which teaches that man by
himself can determine truth?that there is no God. In other words, they
believe that life can be explained solely on the basis of what they see
acting around them today. In essence, this is their religion!
Part of the evolutionist?s religion is that energy from the sun?acting on a
primeval soup millions of years ago?caused the first life-forms to emerge.
Thus, they believe that the sun really gave birth to living things. They are
really giving glory to the sun?s energy for life.
Down through the ages, culture after culture has worshipped the sun. If you
recall, the Israelites were warned not to worship the sun like the pagan
nations around them.
Scientists may claim that evolution has nothing to do with religion, but it
is their religion to worship creation instead of the God who created the sun
and all life.
False: it is is possible to belive in god and understand evolution.
False: Evolution is based on observable evidence and testable fact
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| User: "Timberwoof" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is really sun worship |
07 Aug 2004 10:24:37 PM |
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In article <7f7497cc.0408070920.358c3b68@posting.google.com>,
(VangOoderlang) wrote:
False: it is is possible to belive in god and understand evolution.
Hmmm. Does this sentences of yours mean "The following statement is
false: it is possible..."? That's what it reads for me, so I will
continue on that assumption. I may be wrong, but then the sentence is
ambiguous.
Well, no. It is possible to understand evolution as a theoretical
construct and believe in God. It is even possible to accept
evolution as a correct description of how life evolves on Earth and
believe in God of the Bible. Not all Christian sects make these two
concepts incompatible.
For instance, the Catholic church (which passes all the tests for
"Christianity" I can think of) has pretty much accepted Galielo's words
on the Bible: Scripture is not in error, but our interpretation of it
may be.
False: Evolution is based on observable evidence and testable fact
My, that's a large can O worms you've got there. Are you sure
you want to open it? Check out http://talkorigins.org/. In fact,
evolution of species is based on observable evidence and testable fact.
Every component part of the theory has been observed and tested. Over
and over. Many times.
Fact: Evolution is the fundamental theory of all biological science.
--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com
Linux is destined to take over the wdesktop. However, no one should be allowed
to run Linux who isn't a serious and seasoned core hacker. This is the koan of
the Linux community.
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| User: "Oci-One Kanubi" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is really sun worship |
09 Aug 2004 12:45:53 PM |
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Timberwoof <timberwoof@stimpberawoofm.com> typed:
In article <7f7497cc.0408070920.358c3b68@posting.google.com>,
sutekh.1@juno.com (VangOoderlang) wrote:
False: it is is possible to belive in god and understand evolution.
Hmmm. Does this sentences of yours mean "The following statement is
false: it is possible..."? That's what it reads for me, so I will
continue on that assumption. I may be wrong, but then the sentence is
ambiguous.
Well, no. It is possible to understand evolution as a theoretical
construct and believe in God. It is even possible to accept
evolution as a correct description of how life evolves on Earth and
believe in God of the Bible. Not all Christian sects make these two
concepts incompatible.
For instance, the Catholic church (which passes all the tests for
"Christianity" I can think of) has pretty much accepted Galielo's words
on the Bible: Scripture is not in error, but our interpretation of it
may be.
False: Evolution is based on observable evidence and testable fact
My, that's a large can O worms you've got there. Are you sure
you want to open it? Check out http://talkorigins.org/. In fact,
evolution of species is based on observable evidence and testable fact.
Every component part of the theory has been observed and tested. Over
and over. Many times.
Fact: Evolution is the fundamental theory of all biological science.
TW, I think he meant:
"False. It is possible to belive in god and understand evolution.
False. Evolution is based on observable evidence and testable fact."
-Richard, with Spirit
--
======================================================================
Richard Hopley Winston-Salem, NC, USA
rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net
Nothing really matters except Bikes, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll
rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu
OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters
======================================================================
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| User: "Timberwoof" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is really sun worship |
09 Aug 2004 09:31:46 PM |
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In article <5ef7701c.0408090945.43475403@posting.google.com>,
(Oci-One Kanubi) wrote:
Timberwoof <timberwoof@stimpberawoofm.com> typed:
In article <7f7497cc.0408070920.358c3b68@posting.google.com>,
sutekh.1@juno.com (VangOoderlang) wrote:
False: it is is possible to belive in god and understand evolution.
Hmmm. Does this sentences of yours mean "The following statement is
false: it is possible..."? That's what it reads for me, so I will
continue on that assumption. I may be wrong, but then the sentence is
ambiguous.
Well, no. It is possible to understand evolution as a theoretical
construct and believe in God. It is even possible to accept
evolution as a correct description of how life evolves on Earth and
believe in God of the Bible. Not all Christian sects make these two
concepts incompatible.
For instance, the Catholic church (which passes all the tests for
"Christianity" I can think of) has pretty much accepted Galielo's words
on the Bible: Scripture is not in error, but our interpretation of it
may be.
False: Evolution is based on observable evidence and testable fact
My, that's a large can O worms you've got there. Are you sure
you want to open it? Check out http://talkorigins.org/. In fact,
evolution of species is based on observable evidence and testable fact.
Every component part of the theory has been observed and tested. Over
and over. Many times.
Fact: Evolution is the fundamental theory of all biological science.
TW, I think he meant:
"False. It is possible to belive in god and understand evolution.
False. Evolution is based on observable evidence and testable fact."
Yeah, that's probably right. I just love to bite into a good argument
when I see one. :-)
--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com
Linux is destined to take over the wdesktop. However, no one should be allowed
to run Linux who isn't a serious and seasoned core hacker. This is the koan of
the Linux community.
.
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| User: "Oci-One Kanubi" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is really sun worship |
09 Aug 2004 12:07:06 PM |
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Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in message news:<9bf3580f51005baffb02db69e726f58e@news.bubbanews.com>...
Evolution actually involves much more than life arising from non-life by
natural means. Evolution really does away with God and thus allows people to
explain their existence without any supernatural being involved.
In fact, evolution is a whole philosophy of life which teaches that man by
himself can determine truth?that there is no God. In other words, they
believe that life can be explained solely on the basis of what they see
acting around them today. In essence, this is their religion!
Part of the evolutionist?s religion is that energy from the sun?acting on a
primeval soup millions of years ago?caused the first life-forms to emerge.
Thus, they believe that the sun really gave birth to living things. They are
really giving glory to the sun?s energy for life.
Down through the ages, culture after culture has worshipped the sun. If you
recall, the Israelites were warned not to worship the sun like the pagan
nations around them.
Scientists may claim that evolution has nothing to do with religion, but it
is their religion to worship creation instead of the God who created the sun
and all life.
Or maybe these scientists believe in a God who is great enough to come
up with an amazingly subtle lonnnnnnnng-term technique for creating
man. Who clapped His hands once (known as the Big Bang) to create
physics and chemistry and set into motion the expanding universe and
the accretion of suns and planets where He would create biology, and
employ evolution as His means of creating us. A God who works in
wondrous ways, one of which we call "evolution".
Instead of some puny little god who had to create us out of whole
cloth (or clay, if you will) and ***** around trying to fool us with
fake dinosaur bones 'n' stuff.
Jeez, when will you creationists start using the brains God gave you?
-Richard, with Spirit
--
======================================================================
Richard Hopley Winston-Salem, NC, USA
rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net
Nothing really matters except Bikes, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll
rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu
OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters
======================================================================
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| User: "forge" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is really sun worship |
09 Aug 2004 10:46:24 PM |
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In article <5ef7701c.0408090907.5df8afd0@posting.google.com>,
(Oci-One Kanubi) wrote:
Scientists may claim that evolution has nothing to do with religion, but it
is their religion to worship creation instead of the God who created the
sun
and all life.
Or maybe these scientists believe in a God who is great enough to come
up with an amazingly subtle lonnnnnnnng-term technique for creating
man. Who clapped His hands once (known as the Big Bang) to create
physics and chemistry and set into motion the expanding universe and
the accretion of suns and planets where He would create biology, and
employ evolution as His means of creating us. A God who works in
wondrous ways, one of which we call "evolution".
Instead of some puny little god who had to create us out of whole
cloth (or clay, if you will) and ***** around trying to fool us with
fake dinosaur bones 'n' stuff.
Jeez, when will you creationists start using the brains God gave you?
This is my feeling also - that a lot of "religious" people tend to think
of God in very small terms. A God who tests people's faith, a God who
cares what I do with my ***** - why do they want to limit Deity like
that?
It's why I'm kinda fond of the religion Westerners call Hinduism -
Vishnu is a truly infinite God. At one point in their books, he walks
across the Universe and under each step, new universes bloom forth like
vines sprouting in the springtime. It says what I like to feel - Deity
is far too huge a concept for the mortal mind to fully embrace.
.
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| User: "GreyCloud" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is really sun worship |
09 Aug 2004 11:43:43 PM |
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forge wrote:
In article <5ef7701c.0408090907.5df8afd0@posting.google.com>,
rhopley@earthlink.net (Oci-One Kanubi) wrote:
Scientists may claim that evolution has nothing to do with religion, but it
is their religion to worship creation instead of the God who created the
sun
and all life.
Or maybe these scientists believe in a God who is great enough to come
up with an amazingly subtle lonnnnnnnng-term technique for creating
man. Who clapped His hands once (known as the Big Bang) to create
physics and chemistry and set into motion the expanding universe and
the accretion of suns and planets where He would create biology, and
employ evolution as His means of creating us. A God who works in
wondrous ways, one of which we call "evolution".
Instead of some puny little god who had to create us out of whole
cloth (or clay, if you will) and ***** around trying to fool us with
fake dinosaur bones 'n' stuff.
Jeez, when will you creationists start using the brains God gave you?
This is my feeling also - that a lot of "religious" people tend to think
of God in very small terms. A God who tests people's faith, a God who
cares what I do with my ***** - why do they want to limit Deity like
that?
It's why I'm kinda fond of the religion Westerners call Hinduism -
Vishnu is a truly infinite God. At one point in their books, he walks
across the Universe and under each step, new universes bloom forth like
vines sprouting in the springtime. It says what I like to feel - Deity
is far too huge a concept for the mortal mind to fully embrace.
Very good. I agree with you as well. Makes one start to make a
comparison and really wonder if a so-called vengeful god is really a
God. Maybe there was a translation error and the biblical god is some
ones name instead,... sort of like Lord so-and-so of England. I can
imagine about a million years from now how a new mythology can get
created from not knowing the context in which it was used.
--
---------------------------------
My other computer is a VAX.
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| User: "Bo Raxo" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is really sun worship |
10 Aug 2004 04:16:06 PM |
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"GreyCloud" <mist@cumulus.com> wrote in message
news:Gs6dneLjB_SMz4XcRVn-sA@bresnan.com...
forge wrote:
In article <5ef7701c.0408090907.5df8afd0@posting.google.com>,
rhopley@earthlink.net (Oci-One Kanubi) wrote:
Scientists may claim that evolution has nothing to do with religion,
but it
is their religion to worship creation instead of the God who created
the
sun
and all life.
Or maybe these scientists believe in a God who is great enough to come
up with an amazingly subtle lonnnnnnnng-term technique for creating
man. Who clapped His hands once (known as the Big Bang) to create
physics and chemistry and set into motion the expanding universe and
the accretion of suns and planets where He would create biology, and
employ evolution as His means of creating us. A God who works in
wondrous ways, one of which we call "evolution".
Instead of some puny little god who had to create us out of whole
cloth (or clay, if you will) and ***** around trying to fool us with
fake dinosaur bones 'n' stuff.
Jeez, when will you creationists start using the brains God gave you?
This is my feeling also - that a lot of "religious" people tend to think
of God in very small terms. A God who tests people's faith, a God who
cares what I do with my ***** - why do they want to limit Deity like
that?
It's why I'm kinda fond of the religion Westerners call Hinduism -
Vishnu is a truly infinite God. At one point in their books, he walks
across the Universe and under each step, new universes bloom forth like
vines sprouting in the springtime. It says what I like to feel - Deity
is far too huge a concept for the mortal mind to fully embrace.
Very good. I agree with you as well. Makes one start to make a
comparison and really wonder if a so-called vengeful god is really a
God. Maybe there was a translation error and the biblical god is some
ones name instead,... sort of like Lord so-and-so of England. I can
imagine about a million years from now how a new mythology can get
created from not knowing the context in which it was used.
Dude, see the Old Testament.
.
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| User: "GreyCloud" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is really sun worship |
10 Aug 2004 08:15:48 PM |
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Bo Raxo wrote:
"GreyCloud" <mist@cumulus.com> wrote in message
news:Gs6dneLjB_SMz4XcRVn-sA@bresnan.com...
forge wrote:
In article <5ef7701c.0408090907.5df8afd0@posting.google.com>,
rhopley@earthlink.net (Oci-One Kanubi) wrote:
Scientists may claim that evolution has nothing to do with religion,
but it
is their religion to worship creation instead of the God who created
the
sun
and all life.
Or maybe these scientists believe in a God who is great enough to come
up with an amazingly subtle lonnnnnnnng-term technique for creating
man. Who clapped His hands once (known as the Big Bang) to create
physics and chemistry and set into motion the expanding universe and
the accretion of suns and planets where He would create biology, and
employ evolution as His means of creating us. A God who works in
wondrous ways, one of which we call "evolution".
Instead of some puny little god who had to create us out of whole
cloth (or clay, if you will) and ***** around trying to fool us with
fake dinosaur bones 'n' stuff.
Jeez, when will you creationists start using the brains God gave you?
This is my feeling also - that a lot of "religious" people tend to think
of God in very small terms. A God who tests people's faith, a God who
cares what I do with my ***** - why do they want to limit Deity like
that?
It's why I'm kinda fond of the religion Westerners call Hinduism -
Vishnu is a truly infinite God. At one point in their books, he walks
across the Universe and under each step, new universes bloom forth like
vines sprouting in the springtime. It says what I like to feel - Deity
is far too huge a concept for the mortal mind to fully embrace.
Very good. I agree with you as well. Makes one start to make a
comparison and really wonder if a so-called vengeful god is really a
God. Maybe there was a translation error and the biblical god is some
ones name instead,... sort of like Lord so-and-so of England. I can
imagine about a million years from now how a new mythology can get
created from not knowing the context in which it was used.
Dude, see the Old Testament.
I have. Yaweh could be the name of an alien for all I know and the
locals would worship it.
--
---------------------------------
My other computer is a VAX.
.
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| User: "Oci-One Kanubi" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is really sun worship |
10 Aug 2004 12:01:26 PM |
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GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> typed:
forge wrote:
In article <5ef7701c.0408090907.5df8afd0@posting.google.com>,
rhopley@earthlink.net (Oci-One Kanubi) wrote:
Scientists may claim that evolution has nothing to do with religion, but it
is their religion to worship creation instead of the God who created the
sun
and all life.
Or maybe these scientists believe in a God who is great enough to come
up with an amazingly subtle lonnnnnnnng-term technique for creating
man. Who clapped His hands once (known as the Big Bang) to create
physics and chemistry and set into motion the expanding universe and
the accretion of suns and planets where He would create biology, and
employ evolution as His means of creating us. A God who works in
wondrous ways, one of which we call "evolution".
Instead of some puny little god who had to create us out of whole
cloth (or clay, if you will) and ***** around trying to fool us with
fake dinosaur bones 'n' stuff.
Jeez, when will you creationists start using the brains God gave you?
This is my feeling also - that a lot of "religious" people tend to think
of God in very small terms. A God who tests people's faith, a God who
cares what I do with my ***** - why do they want to limit Deity like
that?
It's why I'm kinda fond of the religion Westerners call Hinduism -
Vishnu is a truly infinite God. At one point in their books, he walks
across the Universe and under each step, new universes bloom forth like
vines sprouting in the springtime. It says what I like to feel - Deity
is far too huge a concept for the mortal mind to fully embrace.
Very good. I agree with you as well. Makes one start to make a
comparison and really wonder if a so-called vengeful god is really a
God. Maybe there was a translation error and the biblical god is some
ones name instead,... sort of like Lord so-and-so of England. I can
imagine about a million years from now how a new mythology can get
created from not knowing the context in which it was used.
Isn't it amazing how many who call themselves "Christians" (whom I and
others refer to as "Fundamentalists") worship the vengeful God of the
Old Testament, not the God whose will was described by Christ in the
New Testament? Hell, observant Jews and many "heathens" exhibit more
Christian decency than many of these Old-Testament-thumping so-called
Christians.
I keep telling myself that if there's a God up there, he can see my
true character and will not hold it against me that I am a lapsed
Republican (forced to vote Democrat by the vile behavior of the
Republican leadership over the last 25 years).
-Richard, His Kanubic Travesty
--
======================================================================
Richard Hopley Winston-Salem, NC, USA
rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net
Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll
rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu
OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters
======================================================================
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| User: "Gactimus" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is really sun worship |
17 Aug 2004 07:32:42 AM |
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(Oci-One Kanubi) wrote in
news:5ef7701c.0408100901.10a4e4ae@posting.google.com:
GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> typed:
forge wrote:
In article <5ef7701c.0408090907.5df8afd0@posting.google.com>,
(Oci-One Kanubi) wrote:
Scientists may claim that evolution has nothing to do with religion,
but it is their religion to worship creation instead of the God who
created the sun
and all life.
Or maybe these scientists believe in a God who is great enough to
come up with an amazingly subtle lonnnnnnnng-term technique for
creating man. Who clapped His hands once (known as the Big Bang) to
create physics and chemistry and set into motion the expanding
universe and the accretion of suns and planets where He would create
biology, and employ evolution as His means of creating us. A God who
works in wondrous ways, one of which we call "evolution".
Instead of some puny little god who had to create us out of whole
cloth (or clay, if you will) and ***** around trying to fool us with
fake dinosaur bones 'n' stuff.
Jeez, when will you creationists start using the brains God gave you?
This is my feeling also - that a lot of "religious" people tend to
think of God in very small terms. A God who tests people's faith, a
God who cares what I do with my ***** - why do they want to limit
Deity like that?
It's why I'm kinda fond of the religion Westerners call Hinduism -
Vishnu is a truly infinite God. At one point in their books, he walks
across the Universe and under each step, new universes bloom forth
like vines sprouting in the springtime. It says what I like to feel -
Deity is far too huge a concept for the mortal mind to fully embrace.
Very good. I agree with you as well. Makes one start to make a
comparison and really wonder if a so-called vengeful god is really a
God. Maybe there was a translation error and the biblical god is some
ones name instead,... sort of like Lord so-and-so of England. I can
imagine about a million years from now how a new mythology can get
created from not knowing the context in which it was used.
Isn't it amazing how many who call themselves "Christians" (whom I and
others refer to as "Fundamentalists")
Why do you use the word "fundamentalist" like it's some kind of bad thing?
You should look it up sometime.
worship the vengeful God of the Old Testament, not the God whose will
was described by Christ in the New Testament? Hell, observant Jews and
many "heathens" exhibit more Christian decency than many of these
Old-Testament-thumping so-called Christians.
It seems you have been very sheltered.
.
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| User: "NeoSadist" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is really sun worship |
17 Aug 2004 07:38:56 AM |
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Gactimus wrote:
worship the vengeful God of the Old Testament, not the God whose will
was described by Christ in the New Testament? Hell, observant Jews and
many "heathens" exhibit more Christian decency than many of these
Old-Testament-thumping so-called Christians.
It seems you have been very sheltered.
And haven't read what Paul said, how the OT is for our example. To discount
the OT is to discount the prophecies Jesus fulfilled in the NT, etc etc.
Most NT, if not all NT doctrine, can be found in the OT.
--
BOFH excuse #70:
nesting roaches shorted out the ether cable
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| User: "forge" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is really sun worship |
17 Aug 2004 09:42:49 PM |
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In article <Xns95485776889FAGC@alaska.local>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
Isn't it amazing how many who call themselves "Christians" (whom I and
others refer to as "Fundamentalists")
Why do you use the word "fundamentalist" like it's some kind of bad thing?
You should look it up sometime.
Actually it *is* sort of a bad thing; see below... "and often by
intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism." And if you
remember, the people who flew those planes into those buidings were...
you guessed it, fundamentalists. Yeah, wacko Islam fundamentalists, but
nonetheless....
fun·da·men·tal·ism P Pronunciation Key (fnd-mntl-zm)
n.
1. A usually religious movement or point of view characterized by
a return to fundamental principles, by rigid adherence to those
principles, and often by intolerance of other views and opposition to
secularism.
2. a. often Fundamentalism An organized, militant
Evangelical movement originating in the United States in the late 19th
and early 20th century in opposition to Protestant Liberalism and
secularism, insisting on the inerrancy of Scripture.
b. Adherence to the theology of this movement.
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| User: "Gactimus" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is really sun worship |
18 Aug 2004 12:47:19 AM |
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forge <forge@diespammers.youneedageek.com> wrote in
news:forge-46120F.22424917082004@comcast.dca.giganews.com:
In article <Xns95485776889FAGC@alaska.local>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
Isn't it amazing how many who call themselves "Christians" (whom I
and others refer to as "Fundamentalists")
Why do you use the word "fundamentalist" like it's some kind of bad
thing? You should look it up sometime.
Actually it *is* sort of a bad thing; see below... "and often by
intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism."
I don't see a problem with a Christian returning to the fundamental values
of Christianity.
.
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| User: "Raymond Griffith" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is really sun worship |
18 Aug 2004 06:17:31 AM |
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Gactimus wrote:
forge <forge@diespammers.youneedageek.com> wrote in
news:forge-46120F.22424917082004@comcast.dca.giganews.com:
In article <Xns95485776889FAGC@alaska.local>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
Isn't it amazing how many who call themselves "Christians" (whom I
and others refer to as "Fundamentalists")
Why do you use the word "fundamentalist" like it's some kind of bad
thing? You should look it up sometime.
Actually it *is* sort of a bad thing; see below... "and often by
intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism."
I don't see a problem with a Christian returning to the fundamental values
of Christianity.
Returning to fundamental values is one thing. There would be no problem
if, as the Scripture says the Lord requires, they emphasized doing
justly, loving mercy, and walking humbly with their God.
But Fundamentalism is not about these things. It is a "reductionism". It
claims to believe the Bible literally as the only inerrant authority
for anything and everything. Early in the movement there were about 12
"fundamental" doctrines that were stressed. Although general agreement
about those 12 doctrines was emphasized there was really a lot of room
for differences of interpretation, and even such recognized spiritual
leaders as C.I.Scofield were more than willing to accept an ancient
earth and evolution as not being inconsistent with the Scriptures
(provided that man was seen to be a special creation).
Today the movement has gotten a lot more strict and a lot more
personality driven. If you follow a particular person, you almost have
to agree with that person in every aspect of Bible interpretation --
even the very iffy areas.
Fundamentalism has been fracturing with internal disputes that are
largely hidden from the eyes of rest of the world. But they are there.
The ungodliness of the movement is readily apparent to anyone who would
dare to look. And as each new faction within fundamentalism comes to
believe that *their* particular brand of fundamentalism and Bible
interpretation is the only true, pure, and righteous one, they are more
than happy to withdraw from the rest and consign the rest of their
Christian brethren to the depths of hell.
Doing justly, loving mercy, and walking humbly with God have never been
the defining characteristics of fundamentalism. But they are the
definining characteristics of a person with real faith in God.
Regards,
Raymond E. Griffith
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| User: "forge" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is really sun worship |
18 Aug 2004 08:25:18 PM |
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In article <VOidnaJG1aNip77cRVn-uQ@ctc.net>,
Raymond Griffith <tiffirgREVERSE@ctc.net> wrote:
Doing justly, loving mercy, and walking humbly with God have never been
the defining characteristics of fundamentalism. But they are the
definining characteristics of a person with real faith in God.
What he said! (points at Raymond)
= )
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| User: "Timberwoof" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is really sun worship |
18 Aug 2004 10:13:51 PM |
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In article <Xns954912C196821G@alaska.local>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
forge <forge@diespammers.youneedageek.com> wrote in
news:forge-46120F.22424917082004@comcast.dca.giganews.com:
In article <Xns95485776889FAGC@alaska.local>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
Isn't it amazing how many who call themselves "Christians" (whom I
and others refer to as "Fundamentalists")
Why do you use the word "fundamentalist" like it's some kind of bad
thing? You should look it up sometime.
Actually it *is* sort of a bad thing; see below... "and often by
intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism."
I don't see a problem with a Christian returning to the fundamental values
of Christianity.
I see a problem with someone reading from a modern perspective an
English translation of the Bible and then pretending that he is not
interpreting the Bible but taking it literally.
I see a worse problem with someone doing that and then trying to impose
his values on other people.
--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com
Otto: "Haha! Apes do not read philosophy!"
Wanda: "Yes, they do. They just don't understand it."
.
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| User: "forge" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is really sun worship |
18 Aug 2004 08:23:36 PM |
|
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In article <Xns954912C196821G@alaska.local>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
Actually it *is* sort of a bad thing; see below... "and often by
intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism."
I don't see a problem with a Christian returning to the fundamental values
of Christianity.
Nothing *I* ever read, especially in the New Testament, said anything
about intolerance or opposition to secularism being okey-dokey with God.
In fact, I kinda remember Jesus saying we all ought to love each other,
try to understand each other, and get along, or he'll come back and kick
all our asses. Wait, I might have made up that last part.
.
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| User: "C Lund" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is really sun worship |
18 Aug 2004 01:07:53 AM |
|
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In article <Xns954912C196821G@alaska.local>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
Actually it *is* sort of a bad thing; see below... "and often by
intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism."
I don't see a problem with a Christian returning to the fundamental values
of Christianity.
So who gets to say what these "fundamental values" are? It's a matter
of interpretation, you know.
--
C Lund, www.notam02.no/~clund
.
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is really sun worship |
22 Aug 2004 10:57:41 PM |
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On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 05:47:19 GMT, Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
forge <forge@diespammers.youneedageek.com> wrote in
news:forge-46120F.22424917082004@comcast.dca.giganews.com:
In article <Xns95485776889FAGC@alaska.local>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
Isn't it amazing how many who call themselves "Christians" (whom I
and others refer to as "Fundamentalists")
Why do you use the word "fundamentalist" like it's some kind of bad
thing? You should look it up sometime.
Actually it *is* sort of a bad thing; see below... "and often by
intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism."
I don't see a problem with a Christian returning to the fundamental values
of Christianity.
I wouldn't have a problem with anyone returning to the fundamental
values of Christianity if the fundamentalists were content to leave
the rest of us alone. However, that usually isn't the case. Most seem
compelled to try to force *everyone* to return to those fundamental
values.
.
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is really sun worship |
23 Aug 2004 03:33:35 AM |
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"John Baker" <jbaker1@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:b5qii0hsuh7hu7h6h9oua8112kp4t30cuo@4ax.com...
On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 05:47:19 GMT, Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
forge <forge@diespammers.youneedageek.com> wrote in
news:forge-46120F.22424917082004@comcast.dca.giganews.com:
In article <Xns95485776889FAGC@alaska.local>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
Isn't it amazing how many who call themselves "Christians" (whom I
and others refer to as "Fundamentalists")
Why do you use the word "fundamentalist" like it's some kind of bad
thing? You should look it up sometime.
Actually it *is* sort of a bad thing; see below... "and often by
intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism."
I don't see a problem with a Christian returning to the fundamental
values
of Christianity.
First off, become Jewish.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
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| User: "Timberwoof" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is really sun worship |
23 Aug 2004 10:33:41 PM |
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In article <BoOdnWqVrvPEMbTcRVn-vA@io.com>,
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote:
"John Baker" <jbaker1@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:b5qii0hsuh7hu7h6h9oua8112kp4t30cuo@4ax.com...
On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 05:47:19 GMT, Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net>
wrote:
forge <forge@diespammers.youneedageek.com> wrote in
news:forge-46120F.22424917082004@comcast.dca.giganews.com:
In article <Xns95485776889FAGC@alaska.local>, Gactimus
<gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
Isn't it amazing how many who call themselves "Christians"
(whom I and others refer to as "Fundamentalists")
Why do you use the word "fundamentalist" like it's some kind of
bad thing? You should look it up sometime.
Actually it *is* sort of a bad thing; see below... "and often by
intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism."
I don't see a problem with a Christian returning to the
fundamental values of Christianity.
First off, become Jewish.
In Knoxville, Tennessee in the late '70s there was a war of words fought
on the battlefield of people's back bumpers. A fundamentalist church of
the born-again variety fired the opening salvo by rewarding new
parishioners with bumperstickers that read "I found it!"
Retaliation was swift and sure. Cars were soon seen sporting the logo "I
lost it" and, of course, "I never lost it."
Further skirmishes are lost to history (hey, it's been a quarter of a
century; give me a break!) but the final round put a sudden end to the
uproar.
The culminating bumpersticker had a Star of David and the words "We
Founded it."
--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com
Otto: "Haha! Apes do not read philosophy!"
Wanda: "Yes, they do. They just don't understand it."
.
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| User: "Carmen L. Abruzzi" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is really sun worship |
24 Aug 2004 12:49:17 AM |
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John Baker wrote:
On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 05:47:19 GMT, Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
forge <forge@diespammers.youneedageek.com> wrote in
news:forge-46120F.22424917082004@comcast.dca.giganews.com:
In article <Xns95485776889FAGC@alaska.local>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
Isn't it amazing how many who call themselves "Christians" (whom I
and others refer to as "Fundamentalists")
Why do you use the word "fundamentalist" like it's some kind of bad
thing? You should look it up sometime.
Actually it *is* sort of a bad thing; see below... "and often by
intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism."
I don't see a problem with a Christian returning to the fundamental values
of Christianity.
What are the fundamental values of Christianity?
Fundamentalist base theirs on an idiosyncratic
interpretation of a highly skewed selection of Christian and
Jewish writings chosen by a committee convened by a Roman
emperor in the fourth century AD.
And he _was_ a sun-worshipper, not that there's anything
wrong with that.
I wouldn't have a problem with anyone returning to the fundamental
values of Christianity if the fundamentalists were content to leave
the rest of us alone. However, that usually isn't the case. Most seem
compelled to try to force *everyone* to return to those fundamental
values.
That too.
.
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| User: "Timberwoof" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is really sun worship |
10 Aug 2004 09:06:22 PM |
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In article <5ef7701c.0408100901.10a4e4ae@posting.google.com>,
(Oci-One Kanubi) wrote:
GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> typed:
forge wrote:
In article <5ef7701c.0408090907.5df8afd0@posting.google.com>,
(Oci-One Kanubi) wrote:
Scientists may claim that evolution has nothing to do with religion, but
it
is their religion to worship creation instead of the God who created the
sun
and all life.
Or maybe these scientists believe in a God who is great enough to come
up with an amazingly subtle lonnnnnnnng-term technique for creating
man. Who clapped His hands once (known as the Big Bang) to create
physics and chemistry and set into motion the expanding universe and
the accretion of suns and planets where He would create biology, and
employ evolution as His means of creating us. A God who works in
wondrous ways, one of which we call "evolution".
Instead of some puny little god who had to create us out of whole
cloth (or clay, if you will) and ***** around trying to fool us with
fake dinosaur bones 'n' stuff.
Jeez, when will you creationists start using the brains God gave you?
This is my feeling also - that a lot of "religious" people tend to think
of God in very small terms. A God who tests people's faith, a God who
cares what I do with my ***** - why do they want to limit Deity like
that?
It's why I'm kinda fond of the religion Westerners call Hinduism -
Vishnu is a truly infinite God. At one point in their books, he walks
across the Universe and under each step, new universes bloom forth like
vines sprouting in the springtime. It says what I like to feel - Deity
is far too huge a concept for the mortal mind to fully embrace.
Very good. I agree with you as well. Makes one start to make a
comparison and really wonder if a so-called vengeful god is really a
God. Maybe there was a translation error and the biblical god is some
ones name instead,... sort of like Lord so-and-so of England. I can
imagine about a million years from now how a new mythology can get
created from not knowing the context in which it was used.
Isn't it amazing how many who call themselves "Christians" (whom I and
others refer to as "Fundamentalists") worship the vengeful God of the
Old Testament, not the God whose will was described by Christ in the
New Testament? Hell, observant Jews and many "heathens" exhibit more
Christian decency than many of these Old-Testament-thumping so-called
Christians.
They aren't Christians but Leviticans. It's not the New Testament that
they treat as holy so much as the Book of Leviticus.
http://www.scalzi.com/whatever/archives/000662.html
--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com
Linux is destined to take over the wdesktop. However, no one should be allowed
to run Linux who isn't a serious and seasoned core hacker. This is the koan of
the Linux community.
.
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| User: "C Lund" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is really sun worship |
11 Aug 2004 01:35:14 AM |
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In article <timberwoof-6DAFF7.19062210082004@typhoon.sonic.net>,
Timberwoof <timberwoof@stimpberawoofm.com> wrote:
They aren't Christians but Leviticans. It's not the New Testament that
they treat as holy so much as the Book of Leviticus.
http://www.scalzi.com/whatever/archives/000662.html
Interesting article. But as one of the comments to the article says -
the bible already has a word for that kind of person: Pharisee. B)
--
C Lund, www.notam02.no/~clund
.
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| User: "forge" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is really sun worship |
11 Aug 2004 11:54:26 PM |
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In article <clund-19DC50.08351411082004@amstwist00.chello.com>,
C Lund <clund@notam02SPAMBLOCK.no> wrote:
They aren't Christians but Leviticans. It's not the New Testament that
they treat as holy so much as the Book of Leviticus.
http://www.scalzi.com/whatever/archives/000662.html
Interesting article. But as one of the comments to the article says -
the bible already has a word for that kind of person: Pharisee. B)
Heee!!! Good call. I was reaching that conclusion in a convo with my
very cerebral, more-religious-than-me stepdaughter last week: "Hey,
aren't these guys acting just like those Jewish dudes that Jesus had so
much trouble with? Wasn't Jesus' whole message that God isn't about big
stacks of rules and High Priests acting as arbiters of those rules?" And
so forth.
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