darwinist wrote:

David V. wrote:

darwinist@gmail.com wrote:

That our genes have made it this far says a lot about
them. Not one of our ancestors died before reproducing, in
the many millions of generations between the first
life-form and our present body, this has involved a lot of
different situations and environments. You might say we
are relatively well-tested.

Unique among earth's life, humans have a strategic
self-awareness. That is, we can see what our mind is doing
and use that information to refine our strategies. We can
see what other people's minds are doing as well. In
neither case are our explanations perfect, but thinking
about minds, being mindful of thoughts, at least
sometimes, has proven useful to the gene-pool.

The human condition, then, is a lifelong education in how
to make use of the human condition. We have a
sophisticated set of decision-making faculties to serve
us, and we can consider them at the strategic level. Even
so, people die every minute after several million
generations of unbroken reproductive success, so we can't
assume anything out of life, except this education.

We can generally learn a lot better if we are willing to
revise our answers and plans, rather than grabbing any
solid piece of certainty within reach and bashing our
enemies on the head with it. They're not enemies when you
realise you're in the same class, and can help each other
to learn.

Then maybe you can learn a bit about biology? We are not
alone in self-awareness.

Can you be more specific? What other animal can abstract a
plan from its concrete specifics and examine the logic as a
thing in itself? What other animal can make up fiction on
purpose to illustrate a general point? What other animal can
lie creatively, rather than simply hide something? Koko the
gorilla knew she was sad when her kitty died, but that doesn't
mean she could understand the causal-relationship.

I could go into specifics, but I don't have the time to take you
through several upper level biology classes.

I also sense a game
of shifting goal posts, and some plurium interrogationum, going
on so I am reluctant to put much effort into a reply.

Other animals make decisions.

Decisions may not be self-aware. Transistor-based computers
make decisions, but are generally not considered self-aware.

The decisions may or may not be self-aware, until you have talked
to the animal itself you cannot make a blanket statement either way.

Other animals are also well tested and have shown to be more
adaptable than humans.

What do you mean by more adaptable?

a?dapt?a?ble /?'d=E6pt?b?l/
-adjective
1. capable of being adapted.
2. able to adjust oneself readily to different conditions: an
adaptable person.

Maybe it is humans that need to learn a bit more from the
other animals..... Nah, human ego always gets in the way.

Is there something wrong with appreciating the human condition
and learning from other animals as well?

Where did I say there was?

Here is the same author on the potential of self-awareness in
humans. Perhaps you can tell me another animal this applies
to:

"The perfection of wisdom, and the end of true philosophy is
to proportion our wants to our possessions, our ambitions to
our capacities, we will then be a happy and a virtuous
people." - Mark Twain.

Your quote there is a non sequitur.

--=20
Dave
=20
"Sacred cows make the best hamburger." Mark Twain.

In message <1160095543.373433.187700@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
darwinist@gmail.com writes

ralph wrote:

In message <1160014196.827282.178150@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
darwinist@gmail.com writes

That our genes have made it this far says a lot about them. Not one of
our ancestors died before reproducing, in the many millions of
generations between the first life-form and our present body, this has
involved a lot of different situations and environments.

Joseph, you don't like me being racist about the Irish anymore than I
like it. But for humanity's sake, how could they have been our ancestors
if they HAD died before reproducing?

Well of course they couldn't, the point is millions of generations of
survival to at least reproductive age.

What do the Irish have to do with it?

Just that I associate the Irish with this type of non sequitur, and,
indeed, with its subsequent affirmation. Maybe I generalise too much
from talking to you for so long ...

On a factual point, a human generation is normally calculated at 25
years, and homo sapiens sapiens at less than 5 million. So not more than
a quarter of a million generations, erring on the generous side.

--
ralph