| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Clayton the Doormat...Walk All Over Me Ladies" |
| Date: |
28 Feb 2004 07:14:15 PM |
| Object: |
Excellent Review of Mel's "Jeebus Goes Wild" |
One of Australias most respected film reviewers and self confessed atheist,
Peter Thompson (brother of well known Australian actor Jack Thompson) did a
review of "The Passion of the Christ" this morning on the "Sunday" show and
it's one of the best I've seen so far.
http://sunday.ninemsn.com.au/sunday/film_reviews/article_1494.asp
Film: The Passion of the Christ
February 29, 2004
Reporter : Peter Thompson
Peter's verdict: violent and heavy going
Director: Mel Gibson
Genre: drama
As a non-believer, I've always been mystified by the story of the martyrdom
of Christ. It seems to me that an omnipotent God could have found a better
way to save us from ourselves than sacrificing his son. I don't mean any
disrespect to Christians - we're all free to say and think what we like
within generally accepted limits, at least here in Australia. The problem
with Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ is that it's almost impossible
to see it clearly outside the inflated controversy that surrounds it.
Indeed, Gibson himself has thrown down the gauntlet by suggesting any
criticism of his film is the work of dark forces. More of that in a minute,
but first, the loaded question of anti-Semitism which has dominated so much
of the discussion in recent months.
If you go looking for hatred of Jews in the film, you won't find it. The
Jewish leaders scream for Christ's blood but even they are ultimately
shocked by the depth of his suffering and there are many sympathetic Jewish
figures. Although he's played by the non-Jewish Jim Caviezel, Christ's own
Jewishness is acknowledged. And Gibson has explicitly distanced himself from
anti-Semitism in his interview with the American journalist Diane Sawyer.
MEL GIBSON: "To be racist in any form, to be anti-Semitic, is a sin! It's
been condemned by one Papal Council after another. There are encyclicals on
it. To be anti-Semitic is to be un-Christian and I'm not."
But no matter how sincere these protestations are, it's hard to see how The
Passion of the Christ can help to bring Jews and Christians, or anyone else,
closer together. Any attempt at balance in Gibson's film is almost totally
submerged under its unremitting, almost indescribable violence. It crowds
out every other impression and yet it's precisely what he intended.
MEL GIBSON: "I wanted it to be shocking and I also wanted it to be extreme.
I wanted it to push the viewer over the edge. And it does that. I think it
pushes one over the edge. So they see the enormity, the enormity of that
sacrifice, to see that someone could endure that and still come back with
love."
We can't show you just how extreme that violence gets but I don't think it's
unfair to predict that audiences will be initially nauseated and ultimately
numbed by what they see. Gibson's defence is that, as the Pope may or may
not have said, it is as it was. And this raises possibly the film's biggest
conundrum. On the one hand, Gibson claims his film to be historically
accurate.
DIANE SAWYER: "Do you have a literal belief of The Bible, every sentence of
it?"
MEL GIBSON: "Yes, you either accept the whole thing or you don't accept it
at all."
And yet he also confirms what would seem to be patently obvious: it's his
own, often poetic, elaboration on what's found in the four New Testament
Gospels.
MEL GIBSON: "It really is my vision. Boy! I'm not taking myself out of the
equation here. I'm a proud bugger! I did this! But I did it with God's help.
I mean, this is my vision of what happened, according to the Gospels, and
what I wanted to show, the aspects of it I wanted to show."
The other controversy, largely fuelled by Gibson himself, is that dark
forces marshalled themselves against the making of the film and are now
working to undermine its message.
MEL GIBSON: "For me, I think evil is something, when it comes to you, it's
not necessarily going to come with a sign saying 'I'm evil' - it will
usually come in an enticing form."
DIANE SAWYER: "And you said at one point 'the big dark force doesn't want us
to make this film'. What was the force?"
MEL GIBSON: "It's the thing you can't see. See, I'm a believer, by the way.
So if you believe, you believe that there are big realms of good and evil
and they're slugging it out."
It reminds you of the fevered gossip surrounding the making of The Exorcist,
a film I greatly admire, all those years ago. But apparently there were no
Satanic manifestations on the set of The Passion of the Christ. Gibson is,
like the rest of us, free to hold to his beliefs. But it's a bit rich to
claim victim status in any debate over the film.
Spending a large slice of the personal fortune he's made as one of the most
popular movie stars of all time, and an Oscar-winning producer, he's made
exactly the film he wanted to make. It's a film of prodigious energy and
overwhelming emotional intensity. But as passionately as he believes in the
literal truth of the story he's telling, he also believes he has enemies.
DIANE SAWYER: "Is the world full of conspiracies to you?"
MEL GIBSON: "See, it's gotten a bad name, conspiracy. Ha ha. It's only
logical to assume conspiracies are everywhere because that's what people do.
They conspire! If you can't get the message, get the man. So I think that's
what we're engaged in here. We're engaged in character assassination."
But a last word on what he believes is the true message of his film.
MEL GIBSON: "Jesus Christ was crucified for all men of all creeds for all
time and he died for all of us."
Hopefully, Mel Gibson has been reassured by the unanimous support he's
received from the churches and by the large audiences flocking to see The
Passion of the Christ. Personally, I found it heavy going but, even as a
non-believer, I'm convinced there is enormous value in the Christian
tradition.
One only has to listen to Handel's Messiah, for example, to be overwhelmed
by its inspirational power. And whatever the failings of the churches over
the centuries, many devout Christians have proven themselves extraordinarily
courageous people.
But, like Islam and unlike many other religions, Christianity is also a
proselytising faith; it actively seeks converts. In the service of that
faith, Mel Gibson has produced not a thoughtful treatise on the nature of
the divine like Scorsese's The Last Temptation of Christ but a blood-soaked
battering ram.
.
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| User: "Justin_Martyr2000" |
|
| Title: Re: Excellent Review of Mel's "Jeebus Goes Wild" |
29 Feb 2004 10:01:53 AM |
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"Clayton the Doormat...Walk All Over Me Ladies" <cjfat@SPAMBLOCKnotmyemail.com> wrote in message news:<40413c8b$0$20941$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>...
One of Australias most respected film reviewers and self confessed atheist,
Peter Thompson (brother of well known Australian actor Jack Thompson) did a
review of "The Passion of the Christ" this morning on the "Sunday" show and
it's one of the best I've seen so far.
http://sunday.ninemsn.com.au/sunday/film_reviews/article_1494.asp
Film: The Passion of the Christ
February 29, 2004
Reporter : Peter Thompson
Peter's verdict: violent and heavy going
Director: Mel Gibson
Genre: drama
As a non-believer, I've always been mystified by the story of the martyrdom
of Christ. It seems to me that an omnipotent God could have found a better
way to save us from ourselves than sacrificing his son. I don't mean any
disrespect to Christians - we're all free to say and think what we like
within generally accepted limits, at least here in Australia. The problem
with Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ is that it's almost impossible
to see it clearly outside the inflated controversy that surrounds it.
Indeed, Gibson himself has thrown down the gauntlet by suggesting any
criticism of his film is the work of dark forces. More of that in a minute,
but first, the loaded question of anti-Semitism which has dominated so much
of the discussion in recent months.
If you go looking for hatred of Jews in the film, you won't find it. The
Jewish leaders scream for Christ's blood but even they are ultimately
shocked by the depth of his suffering and there are many sympathetic Jewish
figures. Although he's played by the non-Jewish Jim Caviezel, Christ's own
Jewishness is acknowledged. And Gibson has explicitly distanced himself from
anti-Semitism in his interview with the American journalist Diane Sawyer.
MEL GIBSON: "To be racist in any form, to be anti-Semitic, is a sin! It's
been condemned by one Papal Council after another. There are encyclicals on
it. To be anti-Semitic is to be un-Christian and I'm not."
But no matter how sincere these protestations are, it's hard to see how The
Passion of the Christ can help to bring Jews and Christians, or anyone else,
closer together. Any attempt at balance in Gibson's film is almost totally
submerged under its unremitting, almost indescribable violence. It crowds
out every other impression and yet it's precisely what he intended.
MEL GIBSON: "I wanted it to be shocking and I also wanted it to be extreme.
I wanted it to push the viewer over the edge. And it does that. I think it
pushes one over the edge. So they see the enormity, the enormity of that
sacrifice, to see that someone could endure that and still come back with
love."
We can't show you just how extreme that violence gets but I don't think it's
unfair to predict that audiences will be initially nauseated and ultimately
numbed by what they see. Gibson's defence is that, as the Pope may or may
not have said, it is as it was. And this raises possibly the film's biggest
conundrum. On the one hand, Gibson claims his film to be historically
accurate.
DIANE SAWYER: "Do you have a literal belief of The Bible, every sentence of
it?"
MEL GIBSON: "Yes, you either accept the whole thing or you don't accept it
at all."
And yet he also confirms what would seem to be patently obvious: it's his
own, often poetic, elaboration on what's found in the four New Testament
Gospels.
MEL GIBSON: "It really is my vision. Boy! I'm not taking myself out of the
equation here. I'm a proud bugger! I did this! But I did it with God's help.
I mean, this is my vision of what happened, according to the Gospels, and
what I wanted to show, the aspects of it I wanted to show."
The other controversy, largely fuelled by Gibson himself, is that dark
forces marshalled themselves against the making of the film and are now
working to undermine its message.
MEL GIBSON: "For me, I think evil is something, when it comes to you, it's
not necessarily going to come with a sign saying 'I'm evil' - it will
usually come in an enticing form."
DIANE SAWYER: "And you said at one point 'the big dark force doesn't want us
to make this film'. What was the force?"
MEL GIBSON: "It's the thing you can't see. See, I'm a believer, by the way.
So if you believe, you believe that there are big realms of good and evil
and they're slugging it out."
It reminds you of the fevered gossip surrounding the making of The Exorcist,
a film I greatly admire, all those years ago. But apparently there were no
Satanic manifestations on the set of The Passion of the Christ. Gibson is,
like the rest of us, free to hold to his beliefs. But it's a bit rich to
claim victim status in any debate over the film.
Spending a large slice of the personal fortune he's made as one of the most
popular movie stars of all time, and an Oscar-winning producer, he's made
exactly the film he wanted to make. It's a film of prodigious energy and
overwhelming emotional intensity. But as passionately as he believes in the
literal truth of the story he's telling, he also believes he has enemies.
DIANE SAWYER: "Is the world full of conspiracies to you?"
MEL GIBSON: "See, it's gotten a bad name, conspiracy. Ha ha. It's only
logical to assume conspiracies are everywhere because that's what people do.
They conspire! If you can't get the message, get the man. So I think that's
what we're engaged in here. We're engaged in character assassination."
But a last word on what he believes is the true message of his film.
MEL GIBSON: "Jesus Christ was crucified for all men of all creeds for all
time and he died for all of us."
Hopefully, Mel Gibson has been reassured by the unanimous support he's
received from the churches and by the large audiences flocking to see The
Passion of the Christ. Personally, I found it heavy going but, even as a
non-believer, I'm convinced there is enormous value in the Christian
tradition.
One only has to listen to Handel's Messiah, for example, to be overwhelmed
by its inspirational power. And whatever the failings of the churches over
the centuries, many devout Christians have proven themselves extraordinarily
courageous people.
But, like Islam and unlike many other religions, Christianity is also a
proselytising faith; it actively seeks converts. In the service of that
faith, Mel Gibson has produced not a thoughtful treatise on the nature of
the divine like Scorsese's The Last Temptation of Christ but a blood-soaked
battering ram.
Clayton, you had me there for a moment with your interesting and
thoughful take on the issue. That is, until you proposed that
Scorcese's film was a "thoughful treatise on the nature of the
divine".
I might be able to be convinced that "The Passion" is a
"battering ram", but Scorcese's was "pornography" and the narcisstic
chaos of his own mind masquerading as high art, similar to the
nonsense that Picasso gave us.
It might have been more interesting if you had done an essay on
the comparison of Hollywood's and the media's reactions to Gibson's
film and Scorcese's and the underlying philosophical reasons for
either.
It is my assertion that one's reaction to either film is a valid
reflection of one's previous moral state of mind (or soul?) and one
will walk away from the film only more hardened into what they went
into it with.
But at least with "The Passion" they will be presented with an
honest choice.
Regards,
Justin
P.S. Yeah, I saw it.
.
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| User: "Will" |
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| Title: Re: Excellent Review of Mel's "Jeebus Goes Wild" |
29 Feb 2004 02:42:18 PM |
|
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(Justin_Martyr2000) wrote in message news:<51ab5982.0402290801.252b94d4@posting.google.com>...
"Clayton the Doormat...Walk All Over Me Ladies" <cjfat@SPAMBLOCKnotmyemail.com> wrote in message news:<40413c8b$0$20941$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>...
SNIP FOR BREVITY
But, like Islam and unlike many other religions, Christianity is also a
proselytising faith; it actively seeks converts. In the service of that
faith, Mel Gibson has produced not a thoughtful treatise on the nature of
the divine like Scorsese's The Last Temptation of Christ but a blood-soaked
battering ram.
Clayton, you had me there for a moment with your interesting and
thoughful take on the issue. That is, until you proposed that
Scorcese's film was a "thoughful treatise on the nature of the
divine".
I might be able to be convinced that "The Passion" is a
"battering ram", but Scorcese's was "pornography" and the narcisstic
chaos of his own mind masquerading as high art, similar to the
nonsense that Picasso gave us.
It might have been more interesting if you had done an essay on
the comparison of Hollywood's and the media's reactions to Gibson's
film and Scorcese's and the underlying philosophical reasons for
either.
It is my assertion that one's reaction to either film is a valid
reflection of one's previous moral state of mind (or soul?) and one
will walk away from the film only more hardened into what they went
into it with.
But at least with "The Passion" they will be presented with an
honest choice.
I haven't seen Gibson's "Passion." Films with religious themes,
especially this one, just depress me. I may see it when it slips into
video stores.
I did see "Last Temptation of Christ," however.
I'm always astounded by people who review films based on books without
ever having read the underlying source. It could be argued that the
film should stand alone, but if a bad film is made of a good book, the
film, which is seen by millions of people, poisons the perception of
the book, which may have been read only by thousands. The novel "Last
Temptation of Christ" by Nikos Kazantzakis was a profoundly moving
study of the nature of man and of sacrifice. It is about the ultimate
temptation any man of genius or action faces, the all but irresistable
lure of home, family and anonymity, the temptation to dump the burden
of leadership and live at home by the hearth.
Fundie Christians, who generally prefer their Jesus to be blue-eyed,
athletic, sexless, generally antisceptic and certainly never in the
throes of doubt or emotional conflict, hate the notion of a reluctant
Christ who struggles with his own divinity. When Max Von Sydow played
Christ in Stevens's and Lean's, "Greatest Story Ever Told" the
fimmakers actually shaved his armpits so that American fundies would
find him pristine and primly acceptable as he hung on the cross.
If Kazantzakis is read with a mind not polluted by the movie, the
Christ figure who emerges is infinitley more heroic, more humane, and
more admirable than the rather distant and sketchy Christ of the New
Testament. His story becomes a metaphor for the struggle of every man
whose gifts propel him into the fear, uncertainly and discomfort of
public life.
The movie was not well done, and since it pretended to capture the
book did disservice to Kazantzakis. In comparison, "Zorba the Greek,"
also based on a Kazanzakis novel, Anthony Quinn's best role and one of
the best movies ever made, was very true to the book, and fully
conveyed the author's anguish about the meaningfulness of life in the
face of inevitable death.
There is no common gound with which to compare Gibson and Scorsese.
Scorsese's film was a badly acted, poorly composed transliteration of
a great novel. Gibson is retelling the Gospels, which are sketches,
simply written, without much detail, and not great literature. Gibson
becomes his own primary source, the spirit of his own enterprize.
What he did is similar to what Shakespeare did, he based a play on an
old, sketchy text. His work does stand alone.
I think characterizing "Last Temptation" as "pornography" is utterly
silly. It was a bad film, but done within the bounds of normal movie
standards. It certainly shocked many believing Christians (who mostly
condemned it without seeing it), but in itself was guilty only of
tastelessness, bad acting (Willem DeFoe, who has made a string of
utterly horrid movies, was never worse.) poor direction, and too much
brain thumping music. Don't let it discouage you from reading
Kazanzakis, though. His books are utterly marvelous. It's a shame the
Nobel Committee bypassed him. His writing is on par or better than
many of the Nobel laureates who've won the literature prize, certainly
better than Saul Bellow, whose work I find almost unreadable.
Will
.
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| User: "Justin_Martyr2000" |
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| Title: Re: Excellent Review of Mel's "Jeebus Goes Wild" |
29 Feb 2004 10:28:33 PM |
|
|
(Will) wrote in message news:<e6e41727.0402291242.3624a210@posting.google.com>...
CSU495@Hotmail.com (Justin_Martyr2000) wrote in message news:<51ab5982.0402290801.252b94d4@posting.google.com>...
"Clayton the Doormat...Walk All Over Me Ladies" <cjfat@SPAMBLOCKnotmyemail.com> wrote in message news:<40413c8b$0$20941$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>...
SNIP FOR BREVITY
But, like Islam and unlike many other religions, Christianity is also a
proselytising faith; it actively seeks converts. In the service of that
faith, Mel Gibson has produced not a thoughtful treatise on the nature of
the divine like Scorsese's The Last Temptation of Christ but a blood-soaked
battering ram.
Clayton, you had me there for a moment with your interesting and
thoughful take on the issue. That is, until you proposed that
Scorcese's film was a "thoughful treatise on the nature of the
divine".
I might be able to be convinced that "The Passion" is a
"battering ram", but Scorcese's was "pornography" and the narcisstic
chaos of his own mind masquerading as high art, similar to the
nonsense that Picasso gave us.
It might have been more interesting if you had done an essay on
the comparison of Hollywood's and the media's reactions to Gibson's
film and Scorcese's and the underlying philosophical reasons for
either.
It is my assertion that one's reaction to either film is a valid
reflection of one's previous moral state of mind (or soul?) and one
will walk away from the film only more hardened into what they went
into it with.
But at least with "The Passion" they will be presented with an
honest choice.
I haven't seen Gibson's "Passion." Films with religious themes,
especially this one, just depress me. I may see it when it slips into
video stores.
I did see "Last Temptation of Christ," however.
I'm always astounded by people who review films based on books without
ever having read the underlying source. It could be argued that the
film should stand alone, but if a bad film is made of a good book, the
film, which is seen by millions of people, poisons the perception of
the book, which may have been read only by thousands. The novel "Last
Temptation of Christ" by Nikos Kazantzakis was a profoundly moving
study of the nature of man and of sacrifice. It is about the ultimate
temptation any man of genius or action faces, the all but irresistable
lure of home, family and anonymity, the temptation to dump the burden
of leadership and live at home by the hearth.
Fundie Christians, who generally prefer their Jesus to be blue-eyed,
athletic, sexless, generally antisceptic and certainly never in the
throes of doubt or emotional conflict, hate the notion of a reluctant
Christ who struggles with his own divinity. When Max Von Sydow played
Christ in Stevens's and Lean's, "Greatest Story Ever Told" the
fimmakers actually shaved his armpits so that American fundies would
find him pristine and primly acceptable as he hung on the cross.
If Kazantzakis is read with a mind not polluted by the movie, the
Christ figure who emerges is infinitley more heroic, more humane, and
more admirable than the rather distant and sketchy Christ of the New
Testament. His story becomes a metaphor for the struggle of every man
whose gifts propel him into the fear, uncertainly and discomfort of
public life.
The movie was not well done, and since it pretended to capture the
book did disservice to Kazantzakis. In comparison, "Zorba the Greek,"
also based on a Kazanzakis novel, Anthony Quinn's best role and one of
the best movies ever made, was very true to the book, and fully
conveyed the author's anguish about the meaningfulness of life in the
face of inevitable death.
There is no common gound with which to compare Gibson and Scorsese.
Scorsese's film was a badly acted, poorly composed transliteration of
a great novel. Gibson is retelling the Gospels, which are sketches,
simply written, without much detail, and not great literature. Gibson
becomes his own primary source, the spirit of his own enterprize.
What he did is similar to what Shakespeare did, he based a play on an
old, sketchy text. His work does stand alone.
I think characterizing "Last Temptation" as "pornography" is utterly
silly. It was a bad film, but done within the bounds of normal movie
standards. It certainly shocked many believing Christians (who mostly
condemned it without seeing it), but in itself was guilty only of
tastelessness, bad acting (Willem DeFoe, who has made a string of
utterly horrid movies, was never worse.) poor direction, and too much
brain thumping music. Don't let it discouage you from reading
Kazanzakis, though. His books are utterly marvelous. It's a shame the
Nobel Committee bypassed him. His writing is on par or better than
many of the Nobel laureates who've won the literature prize, certainly
better than Saul Bellow, whose work I find almost unreadable.
Will
So how is what Kazanzakis did with Christ different than what Max
Von Sydow's employers did with Him?
Regards,
Justin
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