| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Gregor K." |
| Date: |
25 Oct 2003 06:50:50 AM |
| Object: |
Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
I grew up in a non-Christian home. My father is an atheist and my
mother was a backslidden Christian, due mostly to marrying my father I
suspect. Anyway, I grew up an atheist. I never went to Church or
Sunday school, stayed in bed till lunch-time on Sundays, and hated
Christians who I thought were all stupid.
I spent the next decade working at achieving that goal and also trying
to find a meaning for my life. I went through a stage of fads, where I
would be fanatically interested in some subject, and then drop it when
I found that it did little or nothing to feed the hunger in my soul. I
didn't have many friends at high school, and those I did associate
with decided I was the person most likely to initiate a global
holocaust.
I dropped out of school after failing my University Entrance exams,
and got a job as a chemistry technician with the New Zealand
Department of Scientific and Industrial Research. With the money came
independence. I left home, was living in a house by myself, going to a
job where I spoke to no-one, and going to night school at the local
polytechnic where I did the same. I had achieved my goal: my life was
empty of any emotions or meaningful contact with others. - It sucked.
The second year I was at night school I noticed a guy in my class was
trying to talk to me. He'd been trying for the previous year as well,
but I was too messed up to even notice. Luckily he was the patient
type. He was a Christian and he invited me to go to an evangelistic
outreach with him. I nearly punched him out. After that he tried just
to be my friend and not try any heavy evangelism on me.
As I grew to trust him we started talking about life and stuff like
that. I realized that a lot of what I had been told about Christians
when I was growing up was not true. I started asking him questions
about his beliefs and he answered them, but had the sense not to push
it any further.
My Mother has since reclaimed her faith so my family is now divided
down the middle; my mother and I are Christians, my father and brother
are atheists. Becoming a Christian didn't solve my problems, but it
helped me to understand them and it opened the way for God to start
healing me from my past.
After a long struggle and a fair bit of soul-searching I quit my job
and applied for the Youth Intern position at my local Church. I have
switched from doing a Diploma of Biblical Studies to doing a Ministry
Internship Diploma, which is a much more practical course. I am trying
to do less studying of God and more following him. So far I am
enjoying it, but I know following God is a lifetime journey. I still
have a long way to go.
As an aside, my friend from polytech is the most effective evangelist
I have ever met. He has never been to Bible College or had any formal
training and he says I now know far more theology than he does. But he
has a love for God that still amazes me.
Credit goes to http://www.dtl.org/dtl/article/ex-atheist.htm. and to
the writer of the article, Darren "Daz" Gedye
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
25 Oct 2003 06:18:12 PM |
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On 25 Oct 2003 16:02:40 -0700, (Gregor K.)
wrote:
"David V." <spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<tJSdnQ-9QvKoBAeiRVn-uA@sti.net>...
That is one of the most common lies that christians try to
tell us.
How can that be a lie? :-o I know of sociologists that would believe
that some christians were once atheists.
Whoever said it never happened?
But most claimed "ex-atheists" obviously weren't - the average
Christian can't grasp that an atheist isn't going to "realise that
[something non-existant] loves him".
So like the liar you quoted, their "testimony" is full of things that
only a Christian would grant. No non-Christian let alone an atheist
would presume them.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
26 Oct 2003 06:19:45 PM |
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On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 16:02:40 -0700, Gregor K. wrote:
"David V." <spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<tJSdnQ-9QvKoBAeiRVn-uA@sti.net>...
That is one of the most common lies that christians try to
tell us.
How can that be a lie? :-o I know of sociologists that would believe
that some christians were once atheists.
They'd be more likely to deduce the "I was an X" claim to be a tactic of
proselytizing. Co-option attempts are pretty run of the mill for
christianity...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - From alt.atheism only
"The computer revolution is over. We lost."
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
25 Oct 2003 07:00:35 PM |
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On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 08:39:37 -0700, "David V." <spam@hotmail.com>
posted in alt.atheism:
Gregor K. wrote:
... Anyway, I grew up an atheist.....
That is one of the most common lies that christians try to
tell us.
Especially those whose posts absolutely *scream* with early theism.
--
"If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can
solve them."
-Isaac Asimov
&
There are three kinds of men:
The ones that learn by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence.
- (Will Rogers)
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
25 Oct 2003 12:32:41 PM |
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On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 08:39:37 -0700, "David V." <spam@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Gregor K. wrote:
... Anyway, I grew up an atheist.....
That is one of the most common lies that christians try to
tell us.
The Christian audience for whom it's meant don't even notice the
missing step where the "ex-atheist" came to the conclusion it actually
existed before it could love them.
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| User: "towelie" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
25 Oct 2003 03:49:36 PM |
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TV's Christopher A. Lee wrote:
On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 08:39:37 -0700, "David V." <spam@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Gregor K. wrote:
... Anyway, I grew up an atheist.....
That is one of the most common lies that christians try to
tell us.
The Christian audience for whom it's meant don't even notice the
missing step where the "ex-atheist" came to the conclusion it actually
existed before it could love them.
Belief in a god is so ingrained in the average xian's mind that it is
inconceivable for them that the ex-"atheist" would even need to come to that
conclusion.
--
Sometimes God takes those closest to us, because it makes him feel
better about himself. He is a very vengeful God. He's all *****
about something we did thousands of years ago. He just can't get over
it, so he doesn't care who he takes. Children, puppies, it don't matter
to him, so long as it makes us sad...God gives us life and love and
help just so that he can tear it all away and make us cry, so he can
drink the sweet milk of our tears. You see, it's our tears that give
God his great power.
aa #2133
apatriot #19
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| User: "Charles & Mambo" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
25 Oct 2003 11:44:25 AM |
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Gregor K. wrote:
I grew up in a non-Christian home. My father is an atheist and my
mother was a backslidden Christian,
Hmm, and I thought your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of
elderberries.
--
Got to be a Chocolate Jesus, better than a cup of gold
See, only a Chocolate Jesus can satisfy my soul
When the weather gets rough and its whiskey in the shade
Best to wrap your Savior up in cellophane
He flows like the Big Muddy, but that's okay
Pour him over ice-cream for a nice parfait...
Got to be a Chocolate Jesus, make me feel so good inside
Got to be a Chocolate Jesus, keep me satisfied
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| User: "RHertz" |
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| Title: Excerpts from an ex-theist's testimony |
25 Oct 2003 10:59:12 PM |
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I grew up in a Catholic household. Both my parents were believing
Catholics, and all of us went to church, together, every Sunday. I had my
first communion, confession, confirmation, all the routine rituals of the
catechism. CCD on Saturdays, (we went to the excellent public schools in
exclusive suburbs), then to a large Catholic High School. Church in school,
prayer in school, nuns to whoop you with in an inch of your life. But I
never got a demerit, not once, in high school. That may suggest that I was
a goody-two shoes, but I wasn't. I hung with the smart crowd, the ones
going on to the top colleges, who would eventually mostly become
professionals of one sort or other, not the greasers and trouble makers.
I fell for the whole story of Christianity. These people were my parents
and teachers. They wouldn't lie to me, would they? In those days, I was
incredibly naive. One of the smart set, however, openly expressed his
atheism. It was troubling. How could someone not believe in God? My
response was Pascal's wager. Meanwhile, I was a teenage male, getting
complexes and guilt trips about the usual things, masturbation mostly. "If
I die now," I thought in a panic, "I'll go to hell because I just spanked
the monkey!" Seriously, this the way one is taught to think!
During this time, I was also exposed, without restriction, to subject matter
that fascinated me, mostly Science. After reading in some depth about
Astronomy, Astrophysics, Relativity, Evolution, and so on, I suddenly got a
shiver. The Earth was terribly small, and the universe was incredibly vast.
It was instantly inconcievable that there was a God in all this emptiness.
If there was, He sure didn't give a rat's ***** about us here on this small
rock. In desperation, I returned to religion to find some answer to all
this, but the more I read, the less satisfying were the answers. "Jesus
loves you!" Yeah, yeah, so does my cat. That doesn't answer my question.
My religion waxed and waned. It finally came to a head on what they called
"Senior Retreat", in which the Senior class is set off on a weekend to a
monastery in the woods somewhere (and guarded by two very mean Doberman
pinchers) where we all pray, go to mass, confession, and have talks about
religion. I clustered with my friends, who now formed this little group of
skeptics. In that group, I finally found the courage to confront the whole
thing. I was not alone in my doubts. The moment where religion lost and
common sense won I well remember. The priest leading the discussion asked
the group stupid questions like "Is your religion like a rock, or like a
balloon?" I whispered to a friend, "like a balloon: it's full of hot air!"
When his turn came, my friend used this answer. The skeptics snickered and
guffawed.
Suddenly, it was all over. It was alright to give up religion. A huge
burden of ***** was out of my life! I could watch with contempt those
who made fools of themselves being religious. No more guilt over sex,
either! My ethic has simply been the golden rule, a rule that is not
distinctly Christian by a long shot, but no more dumbass rules like no meat
on Friday, going to mass on Sunday and "Holy Days of Obligation". No more
cross examination in the confessional. No more sucking up to the clergy. I
was free!
I now have a degree in Chemistry from a major university, and earn my living
flying airliners. I stifle my thoughts on religion around my family, but no
others. After Sept 11 devastated my industry, my feelings about religion
have moved from mere contempt to outright hostility Religion is why people
fly airplanes into buildings. Religion is why the world in on the brink of
catastrophic war. Bush and his generals, one of whom has openly stated that
we are at war to create Christian dominion over the world, I see as being
little better than the terrorists that bought down the WTC because, like
them, they are religious extremists. These views are not popular around my
colleagues, many of whom were in the military, but I don't care. I am
right, and they are wrong.
I would like to make the modest suggestion that all theists should move to
some part of the world, the Middle East is as good as anywhere, and duke it
out. With any luck, they will all be killed, and this will serve as a
shining example to the rest of mankind of the folly of religion, and those
who survive the theists, assuming they don't destroy the entire world, will
rejoice that the stupid religion gene will be much less prevalent in the
human race.
--
================================
Evolution: Making life better for over 4 billion years.
.
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| User: "Phylter" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-theist's testimony |
26 Oct 2003 04:02:09 AM |
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"RHertz" <rhertz@aol.com> astounded us with:
news:bnfgqt$45q$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com:
I grew up in a Catholic household. Both my parents were believing
Catholics, and all of us went to church, together, every Sunday. I had
my first communion, confession, confirmation, all the routine rituals of
the catechism. CCD on Saturdays, (we went to the excellent public
schools in exclusive suburbs), then to a large Catholic High School.
Church in school, prayer in school, nuns to whoop you with in an inch of
your life. But I never got a demerit, not once, in high school. That
may suggest that I was a goody-two shoes, but I wasn't. I hung with the
smart crowd, the ones going on to the top colleges, who would eventually
mostly become professionals of one sort or other, not the greasers and
trouble makers.
I fell for the whole story of Christianity. These people were my
parents and teachers. They wouldn't lie to me, would they? In those
days, I was incredibly naive. One of the smart set, however, openly
expressed his atheism. It was troubling. How could someone not believe
in God? My response was Pascal's wager. Meanwhile, I was a teenage
male, getting complexes and guilt trips about the usual things,
masturbation mostly. "If I die now," I thought in a panic, "I'll go to
hell because I just spanked the monkey!" Seriously, this the way one is
taught to think!
During this time, I was also exposed, without restriction, to subject
matter that fascinated me, mostly Science. After reading in some depth
about Astronomy, Astrophysics, Relativity, Evolution, and so on, I
suddenly got a shiver. The Earth was terribly small, and the universe
was incredibly vast. It was instantly inconcievable that there was a God
in all this emptiness. If there was, He sure didn't give a rat's *****
about us here on this small rock. In desperation, I returned to
religion to find some answer to all this, but the more I read, the less
satisfying were the answers. "Jesus loves you!" Yeah, yeah, so does my
cat. That doesn't answer my question.
My religion waxed and waned. It finally came to a head on what they
called "Senior Retreat", in which the Senior class is set off on a
weekend to a monastery in the woods somewhere (and guarded by two very
mean Doberman pinchers) where we all pray, go to mass, confession, and
have talks about religion. I clustered with my friends, who now formed
this little group of skeptics. In that group, I finally found the
courage to confront the whole thing. I was not alone in my doubts. The
moment where religion lost and common sense won I well remember. The
priest leading the discussion asked the group stupid questions like "Is
your religion like a rock, or like a balloon?" I whispered to a friend,
"like a balloon: it's full of hot air!" When his turn came, my friend
used this answer. The skeptics snickered and guffawed.
Suddenly, it was all over. It was alright to give up religion. A huge
burden of ***** was out of my life! I could watch with contempt
those who made fools of themselves being religious. No more guilt over
sex, either! My ethic has simply been the golden rule, a rule that is
not distinctly Christian by a long shot, but no more dumbass rules like
no meat on Friday, going to mass on Sunday and "Holy Days of
Obligation". No more cross examination in the confessional. No more
sucking up to the clergy. I was free!
I now have a degree in Chemistry from a major university, and earn my
living flying airliners. I stifle my thoughts on religion around my
family, but no others. After Sept 11 devastated my industry, my
feelings about religion have moved from mere contempt to outright
hostility Religion is why people fly airplanes into buildings.
Religion is why the world in on the brink of catastrophic war. Bush and
his generals, one of whom has openly stated that we are at war to create
Christian dominion over the world, I see as being little better than the
terrorists that bought down the WTC because, like them, they are
religious extremists. These views are not popular around my colleagues,
many of whom were in the military, but I don't care. I am right, and
they are wrong.
I would like to make the modest suggestion that all theists should move
to some part of the world, the Middle East is as good as anywhere, and
duke it out. With any luck, they will all be killed, and this will
serve as a shining example to the rest of mankind of the folly of
religion, and those who survive the theists, assuming they don't destroy
the entire world, will rejoice that the stupid religion gene will be
much less prevalent in the human race.
Welcome, brother. Well met, and well said!
--
Phylter
Denizen of Darkness #44 & AFJC Antipodean Attaché
http://www.rudraigh.com/afjc/regulars.html
Change "no-way" to "hotmail" to respond
.
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| User: "Clothaire" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-theist's testimony |
26 Oct 2003 02:04:03 PM |
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On 26 Oct 2003 10:02:09 GMT, Phylter <Phylter@no-way.com> wrote:
"RHertz" <rhertz@aol.com> astounded us with:
news:bnfgqt$45q$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com:
I grew up in a Catholic household. Both my parents were believing
Catholics, and all of us went to church, together, every Sunday. I had
my first communion, confession, confirmation, all the routine rituals of
the catechism. CCD on Saturdays, (we went to the excellent public
schools in exclusive suburbs), then to a large Catholic High School.
Church in school, prayer in school, nuns to whoop you with in an inch of
your life. But I never got a demerit, not once, in high school. That
may suggest that I was a goody-two shoes, but I wasn't. I hung with the
smart crowd, the ones going on to the top colleges, who would eventually
mostly become professionals of one sort or other, not the greasers and
trouble makers.
I fell for the whole story of Christianity. These people were my
parents and teachers. They wouldn't lie to me, would they? In those
days, I was incredibly naive. One of the smart set, however, openly
expressed his atheism. It was troubling. How could someone not believe
in God? My response was Pascal's wager. Meanwhile, I was a teenage
male, getting complexes and guilt trips about the usual things,
masturbation mostly. "If I die now," I thought in a panic, "I'll go to
hell because I just spanked the monkey!" Seriously, this the way one is
taught to think!
During this time, I was also exposed, without restriction, to subject
matter that fascinated me, mostly Science. After reading in some depth
about Astronomy, Astrophysics, Relativity, Evolution, and so on, I
suddenly got a shiver. The Earth was terribly small, and the universe
was incredibly vast. It was instantly inconcievable that there was a God
in all this emptiness. If there was, He sure didn't give a rat's *****
about us here on this small rock. In desperation, I returned to
religion to find some answer to all this, but the more I read, the less
satisfying were the answers. "Jesus loves you!" Yeah, yeah, so does my
cat. That doesn't answer my question.
My religion waxed and waned. It finally came to a head on what they
called "Senior Retreat", in which the Senior class is set off on a
weekend to a monastery in the woods somewhere (and guarded by two very
mean Doberman pinchers) where we all pray, go to mass, confession, and
have talks about religion. I clustered with my friends, who now formed
this little group of skeptics. In that group, I finally found the
courage to confront the whole thing. I was not alone in my doubts. The
moment where religion lost and common sense won I well remember. The
priest leading the discussion asked the group stupid questions like "Is
your religion like a rock, or like a balloon?" I whispered to a friend,
"like a balloon: it's full of hot air!" When his turn came, my friend
used this answer. The skeptics snickered and guffawed.
Suddenly, it was all over. It was alright to give up religion. A huge
burden of ***** was out of my life! I could watch with contempt
those who made fools of themselves being religious. No more guilt over
sex, either! My ethic has simply been the golden rule, a rule that is
not distinctly Christian by a long shot, but no more dumbass rules like
no meat on Friday, going to mass on Sunday and "Holy Days of
Obligation". No more cross examination in the confessional. No more
sucking up to the clergy. I was free!
I now have a degree in Chemistry from a major university, and earn my
living flying airliners. I stifle my thoughts on religion around my
family, but no others. After Sept 11 devastated my industry, my
feelings about religion have moved from mere contempt to outright
hostility Religion is why people fly airplanes into buildings.
Religion is why the world in on the brink of catastrophic war. Bush and
his generals, one of whom has openly stated that we are at war to create
Christian dominion over the world, I see as being little better than the
terrorists that bought down the WTC because, like them, they are
religious extremists. These views are not popular around my colleagues,
many of whom were in the military, but I don't care. I am right, and
they are wrong.
I would like to make the modest suggestion that all theists should move
to some part of the world, the Middle East is as good as anywhere, and
duke it out. With any luck, they will all be killed, and this will
serve as a shining example to the rest of mankind of the folly of
religion, and those who survive the theists, assuming they don't destroy
the entire world, will rejoice that the stupid religion gene will be
much less prevalent in the human race.
Welcome, brother. Well met, and well said!
Bravo. I didn't go the Catholic route, but I have a lot of sympathy
for those who escaped it finally.
Clothaire #1392
"The psychologist who famously remarked that chastity was the rarest
of all sexual perversions might have added that Religion was the most
common." Arthur C. Clarke
.
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| User: "*nemo*" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
25 Oct 2003 04:59:21 PM |
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In article <82afdec.0310250350.4ee14367@posting.google.com>,
(Gregor K.) wrote:
I grew up in a non-Christian home. My father is an atheist and my
mother was a backslidden Christian, due mostly to marrying my father I
suspect. Anyway, I grew up an atheist. I never went to Church or
Sunday school, stayed in bed till lunch-time on Sundays, and hated
Christians who I thought were all stupid.
Sounds somewhat familiar.
I spent the next decade working at achieving that goal and also trying
to find a meaning for my life. I went through a stage of fads, where I
would be fanatically interested in some subject, and then drop it when
I found that it did little or nothing to feed the hunger in my soul. I
didn't have many friends at high school, and those I did associate
with decided I was the person most likely to initiate a global
holocaust.
I dropped out of school after failing my University Entrance exams,
and got a job as a chemistry technician with the New Zealand
Department of Scientific and Industrial Research. With the money came
independence. I left home, was living in a house by myself, going to a
job where I spoke to no-one, and going to night school at the local
polytechnic where I did the same. I had achieved my goal: my life was
empty of any emotions or meaningful contact with others. - It sucked.
Sounds like it. Too bad you were less than socially adept. I was the
same way, as was my father before me. Boy, I'm glad I grew out of that.
The second year I was at night school I noticed a guy in my class was
trying to talk to me. He'd been trying for the previous year as well,
but I was too messed up to even notice. Luckily he was the patient
type. He was a Christian and he invited me to go to an evangelistic
outreach with him. I nearly punched him out. After that he tried just
to be my friend and not try any heavy evangelism on me.
As I grew to trust him we started talking about life and stuff like
that. I realized that a lot of what I had been told about Christians
when I was growing up was not true. I started asking him questions
about his beliefs and he answered them, but had the sense not to push
it any further.
My Mother has since reclaimed her faith so my family is now divided
down the middle; my mother and I are Christians, my father and brother
are atheists. Becoming a Christian didn't solve my problems, but it
helped me to understand them and it opened the way for God to start
healing me from my past.
Wait a sec. You skipped the part where you tell us what makes you think
*GAWD!* exists. Or did you even bother to run through that part of the
puzzle in your own life?
After a long struggle and a fair bit of soul-searching I quit my job
and applied for the Youth Intern position at my local Church. I have
switched from doing a Diploma of Biblical Studies to doing a Ministry
Internship Diploma, which is a much more practical course. I am trying
to do less studying of God and more following him. So far I am
enjoying it, but I know following God is a lifetime journey. I still
have a long way to go.
You'd be well-advised not to "follow God." Very abti-social fellow, if
his press clippings are to be believed.
As an aside, my friend from polytech is the most effective evangelist
I have ever met. He has never been to Bible College or had any formal
training and he says I now know far more theology than he does. But he
has a love for God that still amazes me.
Very interesting. A letter with nearly zero content for atheists, posted
to quite an odd collection of groups. Obviously, you didn't learn much
about atheism while you had the chance.
Credit goes to http://www.dtl.org/dtl/article/ex-atheist.htm. and to
the writer of the article, Darren "Daz" Gedye
You mean you were just copying this web page to us? What a waste of
time, for both if us. I'd <plonk> you if it wasn't against my religion.
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
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| User: "quibbler" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
25 Oct 2003 01:37:58 PM |
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In article <82afdec.0310250350.4ee14367@posting.google.com>,
gregor@volcanomail.com says...
I grew up in a non-Christian home. My father is an atheist and my
mother was a backslidden Christian, due mostly to marrying my father I
suspect. Anyway, I grew up an atheist.
That's kinda like being born into a wealthy family. You might have
money, but there is no comparison between you and someone who earned
his own wealth. The same applies to atheism. You didn't have to exert
one ounce of your own initiative or mental energy. You just went along
with what your parents told you. Therefore, the fact that you were not
exposed to religion was merely an accident.
I never went to Church or
Sunday school, stayed in bed till lunch-time on Sundays,
Yeah right. Many parents, whether atheists or otherwise will not allow
their kids to sleep all day. Didn't you play sports or anything?
and hated
Christians
Are you saying that your parents taught you to hate xians? If so then
that's not quite the same as genuinely disliking theists for legitimate
reasons.
who I thought were all stupid.
Surely that would be going to far. They might be stupid in their
supernatural beliefs, but that doesn't mean that they are categorically
stupid in all respects.
I spent the next decade working at achieving that goal
What goal?
and also trying
to find a meaning for my life.
That incorrectly presumes that it needs a meaning. Why didn't you ask
your atheist parents what they though the meaning of life was? Perhaps
because your parents weren't really atheists and you're a liar?
I went through a stage of fads, where I
would be fanatically interested in some subject
That sounds like an obsessive-compulsive disorder and has nothing to do
with atheism.
, and then drop it when
I found that it did little or nothing to feed the hunger in my soul.
You have no soul and you don't have much of a brain either, apparently.
I
didn't have many friends at high school
Again, that has nothing to do with atheism. Very few of my friends
from high school ever brought up religion. Invariably, when they did
bring it up, it turned out that they were some type of protestant and I
was a Catholic. But this seldom interfered with my ability to get
along with people. The same applies for atheism. I've very seldom had
a friend who cared that I was an atheist, if and when the subject came
up.
, and those I did associate
with decided I was the person most likely to initiate a global
holocaust.
So you really care what a bunch of dumb ***** children think?
I dropped out of school after failing my University Entrance exams,
It sounds like you weren't too motivated. Perhaps if you had spent
your sundays studying, instead of sleeping until noon then you would
have gotten further.
and got a job as a chemistry technician with the New Zealand
Department of Scientific and Industrial Research. With the money came
independence. I left home, was living in a house by myself, going to a
job where I spoke to no-one, and going to night school at the local
polytechnic where I did the same. I had achieved my goal: my life was
empty of any emotions or meaningful contact with others. - It sucked.
That's an emotional evaluation of a life you claim was empty of
emotions. The fact that you were a loner and socially awkward has
nothing to do with atheism. If you goal really was to not have to
associate with others then it must have made you happy to achieve it.
Otherwise you never really wanted to achieve it to begin with.
The second year I was at night school I noticed a guy in my class was
trying to talk to me. He'd been trying for the previous year as well,
but I was too messed up to even notice. Luckily he was the patient
type.
IOWs, he saw how emotionally fucked up you were and he was stalking you
like a vulture.
He was a Christian and he invited me to go to an evangelistic
outreach with him. I nearly punched him out. After that he tried just
to be my friend and not try any heavy evangelism on me.
Low pressure sales techniques can lull the customer into a false sense
of comfort. But it's still just a technique to try to get you to buy a
product.
As I grew to trust him
So was this guy the first friend you ever had in the world or
something? I find this very hard to believe unless you were a leper or
something.
we started talking about life and stuff like
that. I realized that a lot of what I had been told about Christians
when I was growing up was not true.
Examples?
I started asking him questions
about his beliefs and he answered them, but had the sense not to push
it any further.
Why should he "push it". You ask a question and he gives an answer.
It doesn't require a follow up attempt at indoctrination.
My Mother has since reclaimed her faith so my family is now divided
down the middle;
Hummmm.....what a coincidence.
my mother and I are Christians, my father and brother
are atheists.
I see. The brother you didn't even mention until now.
Becoming a Christian didn't solve my problems, but it
helped me to understand them and it opened the way for God to start
healing me from my past.
Your emotional problems had nothing to do with a lack of religious
training. If you had taken a class in introductory psychology this
might have allowed you to understand your problems too. Better yet,
you should have gone to a shrink. They probably could have helped you
too.
After a long struggle and a fair bit of soul-searching I quit my job
and applied for the Youth Intern position at my local Church.
Why would that require quitting your job?
I have
switched from doing a Diploma of Biblical Studies to doing a Ministry
Internship Diploma, which is a much more practical course.
Sure, if your interest is cashing in on religious nonsense. So exactly
how little did you sell out for?
I am trying
to do less studying of God and more following him.
Would it be possible to "follow" without "studying". Let me give you a
clue junior. This god you are worshipping is your own ego. You had a
massive inferiority complex and now you have turned to religion. The
fact that it makes you feel better indicates that you have fallen in
love with yourself and called this entity god.
So far I am
enjoying it, but I know following God is a lifetime journey. I still
have a long way to go.
Really? How do you know. Is there some kind of mile marker that says
how many Hail Mary's you have to say to get into heaven?
As an aside, my friend from polytech is the most effective evangelist
I have ever met. He has never been to Bible College or had any formal
training and he says I now know far more theology than he does. But he
has a love for God that still amazes me.
Out of curiosity, was this friend of yours ever an "atheist"? Probably
not. So he was raised to be the way he is and by remarkable
coincidence, he turned out to worship exactly the right god, out of the
many throughout the world.
Credit goes to http://www.dtl.org/dtl/article/ex-atheist.htm. and to
the writer of the article, Darren "Daz" Gedye
Good lie Darren. Try a bit harder next time. Don't you think that
there might be one atheist in the world who is happy and has an
emotionally fulfilling life? If so then all your bogus testimonials
about how sad you were as an atheist mean nothing. But we know that
anyway. If you had just got some prozac then maybe you could have
gotten out of your funk without resorting to the mystical, mind-robbing
nonsense of religion.
--
_____________________________________________________
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
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| User: "Gregor K." |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
25 Oct 2003 06:24:39 PM |
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Okay, then, who do you guys think religion is for????
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| User: "Nakas" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
26 Oct 2003 11:23:06 AM |
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"Gregor K." <gregor@volcanomail.com> wrote in message
news:82afdec.0310251524.1903010d@posting.google.com...
Okay, then, who do you guys think religion is for????
That's like asking "what is a virus for?" It has no purpose, it just
spreads and infects people.
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
25 Oct 2003 06:31:09 PM |
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"Gregor K." <gregor@volcanomail.com> wrote in message
news:82afdec.0310251524.1903010d@posting.google.com...
Okay, then, who do you guys think religion is for????
1) To keep the peasants in line.
2) To give the illusion of immortality to those to frightened to face
their end or to egocentric to imagine the universe without them in it.
I'm sure we can add to this list with no trouble.
Enkidu
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| User: "Kenneth Doyle" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
25 Oct 2003 06:34:03 PM |
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(Gregor K.) wrote in
news:82afdec.0310251524.1903010d@posting.google.com:
Okay, then, who do you guys think religion is for????
What a strange question to ask. Religion is obviously for the priests.
The flock is a resource, just as the name implies.
--
Kendo - http://users.bigpond.net.au/codecutter/
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| User: "Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D. P.A." |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
25 Oct 2003 11:13:02 PM |
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Gregor K. wrote:
Okay, then, who do you guys think religion is for????
Outgrowing.
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| User: "David V." |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
25 Oct 2003 08:27:12 PM |
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Gregor K. wrote:
Okay, then, who do you guys think religion is for????
for those that need to be sheep.
--
David V.
Yosemite Llama Ranch
UDP for WebTV
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| User: "quibbler" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
25 Oct 2003 07:17:10 PM |
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In article <82afdec.0310251524.1903010d@posting.google.com>,
gregor@volcanomail.com says...
Okay, then,
Okay then what? I'm not sure what part of the post you are responding
to, if any.
who do you guys think religion is for????
Presuming that your question makes any sense, which is not entirely
clear, I would say that religion is for those people who honestly and
without coercion believe the doctrines in question. Now in reality,
almost all religions coerce and deny freedom of the the conscience.
They won't just let you honestly express your beliefs. For example,
when I was a catholic people were always spouting mantras like, "You
can't be both pro-choice and a catholic". To that I eventually
responded, "***** you then, I'm not a catholic". Oh and before you say
that other, non-catholic forms of xianity are much better, in fact none
of them are better in important respects. They all make laundry lists
of demands on you to believe particular doctrines. Some of them
pretend to be more liberated, but they all expect you to believe in
their definition of god and their specific interpretations.
The only reason that one should believe in god is if you think that the
evidence honestly supports it. One should not believe in a god,
assuming you can even coherently define such a being, merely because
one expects reward, or because one thinks that blind faith makes one a
better person (which it does not). One certainly should not believe
out of fear, though the Hebrew god is often called things like, "The
Fear of Isaac". Your desires have nothing to do with whether something
is true or not. Whether religion makes you feel good or bad about
yourself likewise has nothing to do with it. I think that people
should try to feel happy to the extent that their behaviors do not hurt
others unnecessarily and their beliefs are consistent with reality. I
don't believe that if there were a god that he could possibly demand
that we acknowledge his existence. I certainly don't believe in a god
who would try to bribe us to believe in him and promise unimaginably
horrific retribution upon those who failed to comply.
--
_____________________________________________________
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
25 Oct 2003 08:31:18 PM |
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quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> writes:
...I would say that religion is for those people who honestly and
without coercion believe the doctrines in question.
Good answer.
Now in reality, almost all religions coerce and deny freedom of the
the conscience.
No: you can believe what you want, but you can't simultaneously call
yourself X if your beliefs aren't those of X. There's a difference
between that and, say mind control.
...spouting mantras like, "You can't be both pro-choice and a
catholic". To that I eventually responded, "...I'm not a catholic".
Good answer.
Oh and before you say that other, non-catholic forms of xianity are
much better, in fact none of them are better...
How can they be? Any group defined by a set of beliefs, must either
use those beliefs as membership criteria, or cease to exist. It's
crazy to expect otherwise.
They all make laundry lists of demands on you to believe particular
doctrines.
The term "demand" is only truly applicable if the church in question
is positioned to throw some Spanish Inquisition on your
hiney. Otherwise, the fact is that nobody is forcing you to belong to
the group; you are free to reject its views, and leave.
...or because one thinks that blind faith makes one a better person
(which it does not).
Note, however, that the only defensible moral systems, consistent with
atheism, are libertarianism and anarchy. There is an inherent
prisoners' dilemma that biases reality toward the latter, punctuated
of course by periods of despotism.
I certainly don't believe in a god who would try to bribe us to
believe in him and promise unimaginably horrific retribution upon
those who failed to comply.
Just as an aside, the Bible does not teach eternal conscious
torture. That IS unimaginably barbaric. But it's useful to the
Catholic church, which ruled a big chunk of the earth by means of
terror.
Conversely, cost/benefit analysis is a universal constant. If we are
friends, we are so because you perceive a benefit in our
friendship. That needn't be a mercenary sort of benefit, but benefit
in some form must be perceived.
Regards,
Len.
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| User: "spakka" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
26 Oct 2003 07:23:58 PM |
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wrote:
Just as an aside, the Bible does not teach eternal conscious
torture. That IS unimaginably barbaric.
Matthew 18:8.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
26 Oct 2003 07:47:40 PM |
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spakka <usenet_spam@m16.demon.co.uk> writes:
lbudney@pobox.com wrote:
Just as an aside, the Bible does not teach eternal conscious
torture. That IS unimaginably barbaric.
Matthew 18:8.
Interesting catch 22: if I discuss scripture with you, I get accused
of molesting you with pabulum--even though you raised the subject, not
me.
Since you raised it, note that Matt 18:8 refers to "hell" in most
English versions, but in fact the Greek refers to "Gehenna", the
garbage dump outside Jerusalem (now unused). If one takes this verse
in some hyper-literal way, one concludes that the wicked are put in
the Jerusalem garbage dump for all eternity--an irreconcilable notion.
Anyway, that Matt 18:8 is allegorical is trivial to demonstrate. In
the local context, observe that "Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot
offend thee, cut them off," is clearly not meant as literal
advice. Beside the general principle that self-mutilation is
considered wrong [ev 19:28, 21:5], there is the fact that one's
hand does not literally "cause one to offend"; the hand does as it is
directed by the mind. Blaming the hand is merely a rhetorical device.
In the more general context, Matt 13:34 proves that Jesus' public
statements were always posed as parables.
Regards,
Len.
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| User: "Charles & Mambo" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
26 Oct 2003 08:45:00 PM |
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wrote:
In the more general context, Matt 13:34 proves that Jesus' public
statements were always posed as parables.
Or at least the ones that are contradictory to logic and the Old Testament.
This is an old Christer get-out-of-jail-free card: if a Bible passage is
contradictory to real world, it is a parable.
--
Got to be a Chocolate Jesus, better than a cup of gold
See, only a Chocolate Jesus can satisfy my soul
When the weather gets rough and its whiskey in the shade
Best to wrap your Savior up in cellophane
He flows like the Big Muddy, but that's okay
Pour him over ice-cream for a nice parfait...
Got to be a Chocolate Jesus, make me feel so good inside
Got to be a Chocolate Jesus, keep me satisfied
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
27 Oct 2003 09:29:11 AM |
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Charles & Mambo <Duckman@get.lost> writes:
This is an old Christer get-out-of-jail-free card: if a Bible passage
is contradictory to real world, it is a parable.
It is, unfortunately, a fact of life in textual scholarship of every
stamp. Simple-minded reading of a text usually creates problems.
Regards,
Len.
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
27 Oct 2003 10:22:07 AM |
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<lbudney@pobox.com> wrote in message news:4qxu4s3d.fsf@pobox.com...
Charles & Mambo <Duckman@get.lost> writes:
This is an old Christer get-out-of-jail-free card: if a Bible passage
is contradictory to real world, it is a parable.
It is, unfortunately, a fact of life in textual scholarship of every
stamp. Simple-minded reading of a text usually creates problems.
That's true. The many Christians who claim that their Bible contains no
conrtadictions serve as ample evidence.
Regards,
Len.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
27 Oct 2003 09:16:44 PM |
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On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 16:22:07 +0000, John Baker wrote:
<lbudney@pobox.com> wrote in message news:4qxu4s3d.fsf@pobox.com...
Charles & Mambo <Duckman@get.lost> writes:
This is an old Christer get-out-of-jail-free card: if a Bible passage
is contradictory to real world, it is a parable.
It is, unfortunately, a fact of life in textual scholarship of every
stamp. Simple-minded reading of a text usually creates problems.
That's true. The many Christians who claim that their Bible contains no
conrtadictions serve as ample evidence.
And contradicting each other about how things don't contradict.
--
Mark K. Bilbo - From alt.atheism only
"The computer revolution is over. We lost."
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
28 Oct 2003 09:06:46 AM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.10.28.03.16.42.531213@eac.org...
On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 16:22:07 +0000, John Baker wrote:
<lbudney@pobox.com> wrote in message news:4qxu4s3d.fsf@pobox.com...
Charles & Mambo <Duckman@get.lost> writes:
This is an old Christer get-out-of-jail-free card: if a Bible passage
is contradictory to real world, it is a parable.
It is, unfortunately, a fact of life in textual scholarship of every
stamp. Simple-minded reading of a text usually creates problems.
That's true. The many Christians who claim that their Bible contains no
conrtadictions serve as ample evidence.
And contradicting each other about how things don't contradict.
Yep. As I've said before, funny how they can't even agree among themselves
as to what the "truth" is, yet so many of them insist on telling everyone
else.
--
Mark K. Bilbo - From alt.atheism only
"The computer revolution is over. We lost."
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
28 Oct 2003 09:06:26 AM |
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"John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net> writes:
Yep. As I've said before, funny how they can't even agree among
themselves as to what the "truth" is, yet so many of them insist on
telling everyone else.
The truth is, you're trolling my newsgroup.
.
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| User: "Caleb The Profit" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
28 Oct 2003 11:27:24 AM |
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<lbudney@pobox.com> wrote in message news:fzhdtn9p.fsf@pobox.com...
"John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net> writes:
Yep. As I've said before, funny how they can't even agree among
themselves as to what the "truth" is, yet so many of them insist on
telling everyone else.
The truth is, you're trolling my newsgroup.
Trolling is in the mind of the beholder.
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| User: "Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D. P.A." |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
28 Oct 2003 11:48:09 PM |
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wrote:
"John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net> writes:
Yep. As I've said before, funny how they can't even agree among
themselves as to what the "truth" is, yet so many of them insist on
telling everyone else.
The truth is, you're trolling my newsgroup.
We don't see your name listed on any.
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| User: "Charles & Mambo" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
27 Oct 2003 10:46:26 AM |
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wrote:
This is an old Christer get-out-of-jail-free card: if a Bible passage
is contradictory to real world, it is a parable.
It is, unfortunately, a fact of life in textual scholarship of every
stamp. Simple-minded reading of a text usually creates problems.
Exactly. Like a problem of a deity not existing to begin with. Good thing
there are always interpreters who'll explain to us what their god means. For
a small fee, of course.
--
Got to be a Chocolate Jesus, better than a cup of gold
See, only a Chocolate Jesus can satisfy my soul
When the weather gets rough and its whiskey in the shade
Best to wrap your Savior up in cellophane
He flows like the Big Muddy, but that's okay
Pour him over ice-cream for a nice parfait...
Got to be a Chocolate Jesus, make me feel so good inside
Got to be a Chocolate Jesus, keep me satisfied
.
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