| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Gregor K." |
| Date: |
25 Oct 2003 06:50:50 AM |
| Object: |
Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
I grew up in a non-Christian home. My father is an atheist and my
mother was a backslidden Christian, due mostly to marrying my father I
suspect. Anyway, I grew up an atheist. I never went to Church or
Sunday school, stayed in bed till lunch-time on Sundays, and hated
Christians who I thought were all stupid.
I spent the next decade working at achieving that goal and also trying
to find a meaning for my life. I went through a stage of fads, where I
would be fanatically interested in some subject, and then drop it when
I found that it did little or nothing to feed the hunger in my soul. I
didn't have many friends at high school, and those I did associate
with decided I was the person most likely to initiate a global
holocaust.
I dropped out of school after failing my University Entrance exams,
and got a job as a chemistry technician with the New Zealand
Department of Scientific and Industrial Research. With the money came
independence. I left home, was living in a house by myself, going to a
job where I spoke to no-one, and going to night school at the local
polytechnic where I did the same. I had achieved my goal: my life was
empty of any emotions or meaningful contact with others. - It sucked.
The second year I was at night school I noticed a guy in my class was
trying to talk to me. He'd been trying for the previous year as well,
but I was too messed up to even notice. Luckily he was the patient
type. He was a Christian and he invited me to go to an evangelistic
outreach with him. I nearly punched him out. After that he tried just
to be my friend and not try any heavy evangelism on me.
As I grew to trust him we started talking about life and stuff like
that. I realized that a lot of what I had been told about Christians
when I was growing up was not true. I started asking him questions
about his beliefs and he answered them, but had the sense not to push
it any further.
My Mother has since reclaimed her faith so my family is now divided
down the middle; my mother and I are Christians, my father and brother
are atheists. Becoming a Christian didn't solve my problems, but it
helped me to understand them and it opened the way for God to start
healing me from my past.
After a long struggle and a fair bit of soul-searching I quit my job
and applied for the Youth Intern position at my local Church. I have
switched from doing a Diploma of Biblical Studies to doing a Ministry
Internship Diploma, which is a much more practical course. I am trying
to do less studying of God and more following him. So far I am
enjoying it, but I know following God is a lifetime journey. I still
have a long way to go.
As an aside, my friend from polytech is the most effective evangelist
I have ever met. He has never been to Bible College or had any formal
training and he says I now know far more theology than he does. But he
has a love for God that still amazes me.
Credit goes to http://www.dtl.org/dtl/article/ex-atheist.htm. and to
the writer of the article, Darren "Daz" Gedye
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| User: "David V." |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
25 Oct 2003 10:42:36 AM |
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Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Christopher A. Lee wrote:
Oh. Spot the newsgroups in the header: it's the trolls
from rec.org.mensa trolling again.
WTF is it with that ng? Maybe they should change the name
to rec.org.densa?
The majority of posters in that newsgroup are probably not
members of Mensa. Mensa has more wannabes than any other
organization ever developed.
--
David V.
Yosemite Llama Ranch
UDP for WebTV
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
25 Oct 2003 08:41:21 PM |
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"David V." <spam@hotmail.com> writes:
The majority of posters in that newsgroup are probably not members
of Mensa. Mensa has more wannabes than any other organization ever
developed.
It's the hype.
--Len.
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| User: "raven1" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
25 Oct 2003 01:11:20 PM |
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On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 08:42:36 -0700, "David V." <spam@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Christopher A. Lee wrote:
Oh. Spot the newsgroups in the header: it's the trolls
from rec.org.mensa trolling again.
WTF is it with that ng? Maybe they should change the name
to rec.org.densa?
The majority of posters in that newsgroup are probably not
members of Mensa. Mensa has more wannabes than any other
organization ever developed.
Begging the question of why someone would "wannabe" a member in the
first place. Anyone who feels the need to belong to an organization
whose sole purpose seems to be bragging about how smart they
purportedly are probably wouldn't qualify for membership in the first
place.
.
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| User: "David V." |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
25 Oct 2003 08:16:09 PM |
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raven1 wrote:
"David V." <spam@hotmail.com> wrote:
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Christopher A. Lee wrote:
Oh. Spot the newsgroups in the header: it's the
trolls from rec.org.mensa trolling again.
WTF is it with that ng? Maybe they should change the
name to rec.org.densa?
The majority of posters in that newsgroup are probably
not members of Mensa. Mensa has more wannabes than any
other organization ever developed.
Begging the question of why someone would "wannabe" a
member in the first place. Anyone who feels the need to
belong to an organization whose sole purpose seems to be
bragging about how smart they purportedly are probably
wouldn't qualify for membership in the first place.
Most members don't brag about it. It's the wannabes that do
the bragging.
--
David V.
Yosemite Llama Ranch
UDP for WebTV
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
25 Oct 2003 02:05:23 PM |
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On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 08:42:36 -0700, David V. wrote:
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Christopher A. Lee wrote:
Oh. Spot the newsgroups in the header: it's the trolls
from rec.org.mensa trolling again.
WTF is it with that ng? Maybe they should change the name
to rec.org.densa?
The majority of posters in that newsgroup are probably not
members of Mensa. Mensa has more wannabes than any other
organization ever developed.
I keep wondering why, though.
Mensa's tests don't mean much of anything...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - From alt.atheism only
"The computer revolution is over. We lost."
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| User: "quibbler" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
25 Oct 2003 09:36:36 PM |
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In article <pan.2003.10.25.19.05.23.176741@eac.org>,
says...
On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 08:42:36 -0700, David V. wrote:
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Christopher A. Lee wrote:
Oh. Spot the newsgroups in the header: it's the trolls
from rec.org.mensa trolling again.
WTF is it with that ng? Maybe they should change the name
to rec.org.densa?
The majority of posters in that newsgroup are probably not
members of Mensa. Mensa has more wannabes than any other
organization ever developed.
I keep wondering why, though.
Mensa's tests don't mean much of anything...
Like many things, mensa is something that used to be more popular, but
now has essentially become outdated. I think that mensa was an artifact
of a time when many people still didn't go to college as much or do
a lot of advanced academic study. Mensa served as a credential of
sorts for certain people, particularly if they didn't have other things
they could point to. It also allowed you to be around other smart
people, which can be nice. However, one can achieve the same thing in
many college environments or through usenet and internet sources.
Lastly, mensa served as a nerd support group. But as people get older
and more mature they often find that they finally possess the social
skills to deal with their nerdiness by themselves. At least one hopes
that this is the case.
--
_____________________________________________________
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
26 Oct 2003 09:21:17 AM |
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On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:36:36 -0600, quibbler wrote:
In article <pan.2003.10.25.19.05.23.176741@eac.org>,
says...
On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 08:42:36 -0700, David V. wrote:
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Christopher A. Lee wrote:
Oh. Spot the newsgroups in the header: it's the trolls
from rec.org.mensa trolling again.
WTF is it with that ng? Maybe they should change the name
to rec.org.densa?
The majority of posters in that newsgroup are probably not
members of Mensa. Mensa has more wannabes than any other
organization ever developed.
I keep wondering why, though.
Mensa's tests don't mean much of anything...
Like many things, mensa is something that used to be more popular, but
now has essentially become outdated. I think that mensa was an artifact
of a time when many people still didn't go to college as much or do
a lot of advanced academic study. Mensa served as a credential of
sorts for certain people, particularly if they didn't have other things
they could point to. It also allowed you to be around other smart
people, which can be nice. However, one can achieve the same thing in
many college environments or through usenet and internet sources.
Actually, far back as I can recall, the idea that Mensa enabled you to be
around "smart people" was always a questionable proposition. But then I've
never bought into this metrics-on-steroids idea that we can run a few
tests and, presto, determine "smart."
Lastly, mensa served as a nerd support group. But as people get older
and more mature they often find that they finally possess the social
skills to deal with their nerdiness by themselves. At least one hopes
that this is the case.
Support group or "enabler?"
In terms of the classic nerd defense of "yeah, well, I'm smarter than
you!" I've been there, done that, saw the utter failure.
The risk seems very, very high that groups like Mensa would *stilt social
skill development rather than do anything actually useful in those terms...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - From alt.atheism only
"The computer revolution is over. We lost."
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| User: "Steve Mading" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
27 Oct 2003 04:15:11 PM |
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In talk.atheism Mark K. Bilbo <> wrote:
: On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:36:36 -0600, quibbler wrote:
:> In article <pan.2003.10.25.19.05.23.176741@eac.org>,
:> says...
:>> On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 08:42:36 -0700, David V. wrote:
:>>
:>> > Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
:>> >> Christopher A. Lee wrote:
:>> >>
:>> >>> Oh. Spot the newsgroups in the header: it's the trolls
:>> >>> from rec.org.mensa trolling again.
:>> >>
:>> >> WTF is it with that ng? Maybe they should change the name
:>> >> to rec.org.densa?
:>> >
:>> > The majority of posters in that newsgroup are probably not
:>> > members of Mensa. Mensa has more wannabes than any other
:>> > organization ever developed.
:>>
:>> I keep wondering why, though.
:>>
:>> Mensa's tests don't mean much of anything...
:>
:> Like many things, mensa is something that used to be more popular, but
:> now has essentially become outdated. I think that mensa was an artifact
:> of a time when many people still didn't go to college as much or do
:> a lot of advanced academic study. Mensa served as a credential of
:> sorts for certain people, particularly if they didn't have other things
:> they could point to. It also allowed you to be around other smart
:> people, which can be nice. However, one can achieve the same thing in
:> many college environments or through usenet and internet sources.
: Actually, far back as I can recall, the idea that Mensa enabled you to be
: around "smart people" was always a questionable proposition. But then I've
: never bought into this metrics-on-steroids idea that we can run a few
: tests and, presto, determine "smart."
The biggest problem with Mensa tests (and any test for intelligence,
really) is that it's impossible to remove historical bias, even if you
try. By "historical bias" I mean a bias toward those who have some
history working with the subject matter, which is NOT what intelligence
is supposed to be. Intelligence is not a pile of previously gained
knowlege. It's the ability to build new knowlege based on examining
what is currently known to you. And the only way to test that is to
observe someone for years. A test you can take in an hour, or even
in a day, will necessarily have to be short enough that it will need
to rely on some assumptions about previously known things, and it will
have to make use of concepts the reader is already comfortable with.
To do otherwise you would have to make every question absurdly long.
For example, if a question is, "What is the next number that fits the
following pattern...", then anyone with previous experience working
with numbers a lot is going to have an easier time with that than
someone who doesn't, even though the test isn't supposed to be
testing someone's *previous* exposure to numerical concepts.
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| User: "David V." |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
25 Oct 2003 08:19:49 PM |
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Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 08:42:36 -0700, David V. wrote:
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Christopher A. Lee wrote:
Oh. Spot the newsgroups in the header: it's the
trolls from rec.org.mensa trolling again.
WTF is it with that ng? Maybe they should change the
name to rec.org.densa?
The majority of posters in that newsgroup are probably
not members of Mensa. Mensa has more wannabes than any
other organization ever developed.
I keep wondering why, though.
Mensa's tests don't mean much of anything...
They are compensating for a low self image. If they claim
that they are a member of something like Mensa, they think
that people will see them as better than they view
themselves to be.
--
David V.
Yosemite Llama Ranch
UDP for WebTV
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
25 Oct 2003 06:54:13 PM |
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On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:05:23 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<iskanipa-y@hoo.com> posted in alt.atheism:
On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 08:42:36 -0700, David V. wrote:
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Christopher A. Lee wrote:
Oh. Spot the newsgroups in the header: it's the trolls
from rec.org.mensa trolling again.
WTF is it with that ng? Maybe they should change the name
to rec.org.densa?
The majority of posters in that newsgroup are probably not
members of Mensa. Mensa has more wannabes than any other
organization ever developed.
I keep wondering why, though.
They want to be loved by the creator of the universe.
They want to be recognized as being among the smartest people on
Earth.
I don't see much difference between the two.
--
"I can't activate two neurons simultaneously, and I vote"
- The theistic majority
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "Bob White" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
25 Oct 2003 07:05:40 PM |
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"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:i73mpvge0p74vb8tgbf42apdo1ri9r9a22@Pern.rk...
On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:05:23 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<iskanipa-y@hoo.com> posted in alt.atheism:
On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 08:42:36 -0700, David V. wrote:
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Christopher A. Lee wrote:
Oh. Spot the newsgroups in the header: it's the trolls
from rec.org.mensa trolling again.
WTF is it with that ng? Maybe they should change the name
to rec.org.densa?
The majority of posters in that newsgroup are probably not
members of Mensa. Mensa has more wannabes than any other
organization ever developed.
I keep wondering why, though.
They want to be loved by the creator of the universe.
I wanted to be loved by the tooth fairy. But then one dark and stormy night
I suddenly realized that it's not about me.
They want to be recognized as being among the smartest people on
Earth.
I don't see much difference between the two.
--
"I can't activate two neurons simultaneously, and I vote"
- The theistic majority
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "Drew" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
25 Oct 2003 01:07:34 PM |
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You know what I think? Good for him! If he chose to believe in this
and it makes him feel better about himself (even if it may be false),
then power to him.
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| User: "Mike Ruskai" |
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| Title: Re: Corrected subject: work of fiction concocted by a theist |
26 Oct 2003 12:14:13 AM |
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[snip fabricated anecdote]
--
- Mike
Remove 'spambegone.net' and reverse to send e-mail.
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| User: "Pastor Salt" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
25 Oct 2003 08:31:58 PM |
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here is the link to his "home page"
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~dgedye/
Ive sent him an email to join the discussion.. be nice guys :-)
I wont hold the fact that he is a NZ'r against him either...just dont
mention sheep..
--
Steve
The are no stupid questions.... but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
26 Oct 2003 06:39:49 PM |
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On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:31:58 +1100, "Pastor Salt"
<dontbother@hotmail.com>, Message ID: <bnf894$7dv$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
wrote in alt.atheism;
here is the link to his "home page"
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~dgedye/
Ive sent him an email to join the discussion.. be nice guys :-)
I wont hold the fact that he is a NZ'r against him either...just dont
mention sheep..
BBBBBBBBBBBBBBbaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Hmmm...isn't it sheep shearing time in NZ?
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D. P.A." |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
26 Oct 2003 01:39:46 PM |
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Pastor Salt wrote:
here is the link to his "home page"
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~dgedye/
Ive sent him an email to join the discussion.. be nice guys :-)
I wont hold the fact that he is a NZ'r against him either...just dont
mention sheep..
.... Falkland Island war brides..
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Excerpts from an ex-atheist's testimony |
26 Oct 2003 06:40:17 PM |
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On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 11:39:46 -0800, "Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D. P.A."
<cdub@_REMOVETHIS_erols.com>, Message ID:
<3F9C2302.70E3@_REMOVETHIS_erols.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
Pastor Salt wrote:
here is the link to his "home page"
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~dgedye/
Ive sent him an email to join the discussion.. be nice guys :-)
I wont hold the fact that he is a NZ'r against him either...just dont
mention sheep..
... Falkland Island war brides..
RRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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