| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Art Bulla" |
| Date: |
05 Jun 2007 08:57:04 PM |
| Object: |
Exposing the Fairy Tale for Grownups |
(Reclaiming Science from Darwinism; Kenneth Poppe):
These blind alleys dismissed, the book (textbook) usually gives the correct
view for the origin of cellular life, using Pasteur's famous "soup in a
flask" experiment. Pictures show how boiled broth left in an open container
developed the contamination of bacterial life, while boiled broth in a flask
sealed from microbes in the air did not--thereby proving that only life
gives rise to life. And to be sure that the impressionable young reader
understands that superstitious theories cannot account for life, the author
is likely to close with the cell theory. This theory has three tenets:
1. The cell is the basic unit of life.
2. All organisms are made of cells.
3. All cells come from other cells.
The heart of the cell theory is the third statement, which says a new cell
can only come from a preexisting cell.
Life from Nonlife?
This poses a dilemma for the theory of natural evolution: to first say
spontaneously generated cells are a medieval myth, but then to say inorganic
(nonliving material) went to organic (living material) at least once in
Earth's history. To escape the dilemma, Darwinists need a powerful
explanation for unintended life, and a really good one, or they are back on
"maggots just appear on dead meat" footing. Of course they have one to
offer. It bears careful examination because if it is believable, Design must
take a giant step backward, so to speak. If it is unbelievable, then Design
wins, even if only by default. The following will give you a taste of the
complex processes said to be necessary if life is to evolve from nonlife.
(To fully comprehend the various theories would take a lifetime of study.)
In brief you are about to read of a string of random events that begin with
our Earth as a raging and inhospitable planet full of intense heat, toxic
gases, and violent storms.
Following the big bang, the first cell evolved on Earth when-after about 1.1
billion years-conditions on our violent lent and inhospitable planet finally
settled sufficiently for chemical complexity to move forward. By about 3.5
billion years ago, a powerful reconfiguring force, probably the sun's
ultraviolet rays, had eventually fractured enough simple inorganic molecules
like carbon dioxide and methane to release their atomic carbon contents.
These then reassembled into the carbon-chain configurations that are the
backbones of organic molecules in our carbon-based life-forms. As water,
hydrogen gas, ammonia, and nitrogen gas were also fractured by UV rays, all
four atoms that make up 99 percent of organic tissue-hydrogen, oxygen,
nitrogen, and additional carbon-were able to begin attachment to the
existing carbon chains. Though this may have taken many millions of years,
the simplest organic carbohydrates finally appeared in the primordial soup.
Now the oceans-or perhaps freshwater ponds which were not subject to harsh
salinity-contained organic molecules like simple alcohols (ethanol), weak
organic acids (acetic acid), and monosaccharides (glucose, and later
deoxyribose and ribose). At this point, perhaps it was
Lightning, another powerful reconfiguring force, that fractured sulfuric and
phosphoric acids to free necessary sulfate and phosphate radicals. These
ionized groups, perhaps further catalyzed by superheated iron and nickel
sulfides, then interacted with the present carbohydrates to produce at least
some of the "alphabet" of 20 amino acids. And now that these amino-acid
building blocks were appearing, they polymerized into the all-essential
proteins necessary for any type of future cell structure. Besides UV rays
and lightning, there were other reconfiguring forces present on ancient
Earth to aid in molecular advancement. X-rays, volcanoes, earthquakes,
tornadoes, and meteor strikes may have also played a role in the assembly of
larger organic molecules such as additional amino acids, vitamins, ATPs, and
simple enzymes. The appearance of enzymes would be particularly important in
that they would accelerate molecular development. At this juncture, critical
components made their appearance. Certain amino acids were somewhat altered
to produce the nitrogenous bases of cytosine, adenine, guanine, and uracil,
which combined with sugars and phosphates to produce nucleotides that served
as the building blocks for the first nucleic acid, RNA. (The template for
assembling such a macromolecule could have been the intricate lattice
arrangement of inorganic crystals.) With RNA now present, acting as both a
coder of additional nitrogenous base sequences and a ligase-type catalyst,
it began to self-replicate. Portions of the RNA molecule were now able to
construct longer proteins, such as those needed for protective cell
membranes, and were also able to code for a unique molecule called
chlorophyll. The chlorophyll in developing chloroplasts would then take over
carbon-chain construction through the extremely reliable process of
photosynthesis. With RNA and photosynthesis both producing further organic
molecular complexity and abundance, these large particles began adhering to
each other, eventually forming
well-known prebiotic coctcervates-subcellular particles bringing us to the
verge of a living cell. Other portions of mutating RNA molecules could now
begin to code for proteins necessary for the eventual appearance of
organelles such as mitochondria, ribosomes, and plastids. Meanwhile, another
nitrogenous base, thymine, had already been added to the soup. It was now
only a short step to transform RNA into the double-helix marvel of DNA, the
ultimate holder of all future genetic codes. This freed RNA to adopt its
present role of messenger in the production of subsequent proteins and
allowed DNA to assume full "blueprint duties" for all other cell structures.
Then in short order, the first asexual prokaryotic cell appeared in the form
of a single bacterium, and life was born. As proliferating prokaryotic cells
continued nucleic acid. production, individual strands of DNA eventually
traveled in twos, leading to the homologous chromosome pairs that are basic
to all of today's organisms. Then, as these evolving cells engulfed other
less complex bacteria through endosyrnhiosis, they were transformed. into
organelles for added capabilities rather than being digested. This produced
the first true eukaryotic cell, and the world now had an organism capable of
going beyond simple asexual reproduction to utilize a sexual mating process
allowing for great variations among offspring. It did not take long for
these advanced cells to clump together in multicellularity for protection
and division of labor, producing perhaps worms and primitive fish. Though
this entire process may have taken 3.5 billion years to complete, the forces
of natural selection were now coming into play through survival of the
fittest, which would drive organisms to improve or die. For this reason, one
might say that in the next billion years or so, the appearance of the
complex plant and animal species of the twenty-first century was a foregone
conclusion. Obviously, research for more specifics on the actual mechanisms
above continues. On other fronts, the search on Earth for structurally
related but unusable molecules has
been inconclusive, as have attempts to generate molecular complexity in
substantive quantities under laboratory conditions. But nature continues to
divulge her secrets, albeit reluctantly, and the work goes on, This highly
detailed explanation stops at the appearance of the ancient
chordares-s-fish-c-which Darwinists believe went on to eventually become
species like the North American wood duck (which I use as an example in the
next chapter). And if that could happen, then I guess mammals could appear
and become monkeys, and so on.
Get Out the Magic Wand On the surface, the entire package appears to
constitute a powerful argument. Darwinists I know fully believe in this and
think nothing more needs to be said. At first glance, how could anyone argue
with this explanation? How could you challenge the details unless you were
as highly trained as the researchers? The rapid bombardment of high-powered
vocabulary, and the dizzying mosaic the terms paint, surely cannot be the
product of a vivid imagination, can it? And what about the explanation's
obvious lack of need for an Unseen Hand? How can "In the beginning, God..."
compete with this? Is natural evolution the truth and Design the fraud? Does
Darwinism still have every right to monopolize science, rendering the title
of this book meaningless? We can see why, to Darwinists, theological
explanations for the origin of life must seem like magic-wand waving and
smoke and mirrors. I'm sure this is the reason evolutionists have told me to
my face that I've forsaken cognitive facts and the left-brained reasoning of
science, and instead am now drawing on the emotionalism of the right-brained
superstitions of religion-not too far from voodoo and witchcraft.
(Flattering, isn't it?)
Another Accidental Marvel However, before we pursue the issue further, I
would like to present an explanation that parallels the one above: an
explanation of the unintended processes that produced another first-the
first television.
The television came into use when conditions in the civilized world finally
made electronic communications a possibility. It began long ago on a
deserted tropical island. Violent volcanic activity due to tectonic plate
movement crystallized sand into glass in the shape of a cathode-ray tube.
This tube fell into a phosphorescent "soup" composed of the remains of
millions of ancient fireflies, and the oozing liquid coated the glass.
Though natural erosion eventually wore away the outside phosphor coating,
the inside coating dried and remained. later, a random lightning strike
placed two lumps of iron at each end of the tube. These lumps became
magnetized, one positively and one negatively, by the heat dissipation of
the ancient cooling Earth, and simultaneously began to function as an anode
and a cathode, collecting and repelling electrons. Random
oxidation-reduction reactions driven by intense heat from a thermal vent
separated and refined sufficient copper from available ore to shape several
strands of wire, which were belched ashore by an underwater earthquake and
subsequent tidal wave. Hurricane-force winds attached these wires to the
magnets in the glass tube in the exact required position. Suction from these
same winds produced a vacuum in the tube, which was sealed in by cork
insulators blown into place from destroyed trees. Finally, a burst of
ultraviolet radiation from an uncommonly intense solar flare energized the
two electrodes, and they began to fire electrons at the phosphor coating at
the precise angle that would cause it to glow. The very first operational
cathode-ray tube was now a reality. As all this was taking place, over the
same lengthy time period the same reconfiguring forces had shaped the less
complex components of tubes; circuit boards, dials, and wood cabinetry.
These lay scattered all over the island where the cathode ray tube lay
glowing. The light and the other strange-looking objects attracted the
curious monkeys on the island, and they began to randomly manipulate the
pieces.
34 PART I- A SURVEY OF THE LANDSCAPE
As luck would have it, the primates somehow managed to assemble the
components, and before they could disassemble them, a man walking the
deserted island found the device and named it the "tele-vision." This man
was an entrepreneurial sort who realized its potential to display specified
electronic signals, perhaps for profit. He brought the "TV" back to
civilization, where he applied for and was granted a patent. Now it has been
many years since that first simple glowing cathode-ray tube was discovered.
and through serendipitous results of the random actions of bungling
repairmen, it has evolved into such sophisticated devices as plasma screens
and HDTV. However, much of the original accidental technology is still being
duplicated, and even the name "television" is still used today. Electronic
engineers around the world still marvel at the luck of the original patent
owner. This is because no similar "pre-television" components have ever been
found anywhere else on Earth, either nonfunctional or near-functional, which
could corroborate the bizarre tale told by the man who once walked that
tropical island. Also, attempts to piece together the natural processes
thought to have taken place, and then recreate them under tightly controlled
simulated conditions, have met with unsatisfactory results. And yet faith in
the truth of the process causes the work to go on.
Well-there you have it. The product has changed from cell to television, but
the reliance on potentially lucky processes is basically the same. Perhaps
the only other difference is that the vocabulary in the TV scenario isn't as
intimidating and doesn't produce the hoodwinking element of mystery due to
the unfamiliar.
Choose Your Smoke and Mirrors Is it perhaps possible that evolutionary
science also employs its fair share of magic-wand waving and smoke and
mirrors? When you under stand what natural evolution is really trying to
sell, do you get the feeling someone should tell the king sporting his new
clothes that he is really naked? The story is told of a consortium of
scientists who bet God they too could make a living cell from scratch. The
challenge was accepted, and the group proceeded to gather the most renowned
molecular biologists, cytologists, and geneticists from around the world. As
word spread, funds began pouring in from all over. The team built an
impressive research facility and equipped it with powerful supercomputers,
high-tech Constructing a vital microscopes, state-of-the-art electronic
machinery, and all the best tools and
glassware. When all was in place, the team prepared to go out and collect
the necessary chemical compounds to begin their experiments. At this point,
unimaginable magnitude. God stepped in and said, 'Hey. not so fast-get your
own raw materials.
Even if organic components-in this case, prelife molecules already assembled
by living cells-were available, I wonder if lab experiments have shown that
we are anywhere near making a living cell. Consider the following: "
Cutting-edge laboratory work can barely identify and safely alter organic
molecules from those already present in nature. Even constructing a vital
organelle within a cell, such as a mitochondrion, is unthinkable due to
complexity of an unimaginable magnitude. Therefore, the correct answer as to
whether we can make a living cell in a test tube is not "inevitable,"
"likely," "probably," or "maybe"-or even "remote"-but most definitely
"impossible." However, the incongruity is, many of those same reputable
scientists believe that without our Story's state-of-the-art research
facility with supercomputers, microscopes, random chance can produce such a
result! (Reclaiming Science from Darwinism; Kenneth Poppe)
--
Website: http://www.artbulla.com
5 And it speaketh harshly against sin, according to the plainness of the
truth; wherefore, no man will be angry at the words which I have written
save he shall be of the spirit of the devil.
6 I glory in plainness; I glory in truth; I glory in my Jesus, for he hath
redeemed my soul from hell.
(2 Nephi 33:5 - 6)
26 And ye have murmured because he hath been plain unto you. Ye say that
he hath used sharpness; ye say that he hath been angry with you; but behold,
his sharpness was the sharpness of the power of the word of God, which was
in him; and that which ye call anger was the truth, according to that which
is in God, which he could not restrain, manifesting boldly concerning your
iniquities.
27 And it must needs be that the power of God must be with him, even unto
his commanding you that ye must obey. But behold, it was not he, but it was
the Spirit of the Lord which was in him, which opened his mouth to utterance
that he could not shut it.
(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 1:26 - 27)
"What Joseph meant by being damned was that people will go into the spirit
world without the Priesthood, and consequently they are under the power of
Satan, and will have to be redeemed, or else they will be forever under his
power. That is all there is about that."
(Journal of Discourses, 26 vols., 17:, p.159)
"I am like a huge rough stone rolling down from a high mountain; and the
only polishing I get is when some corner gets rubbed off by coming in
contact with something else, striking with accelerated force against
religious bigotry, priestcraft, lawyer-craft, doctor-craft, lying editors,
suborned judges and jurors, and the authority of perjured executives, backed
by mobs, blasphemers, licentious and corrupt men and women, all hell
knocking off a corner here and a corner there. Thus will I become a smooth
and polished shaft in the quiver of the Almighty." (Teachings of the
Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 304.)
"I just tell em the truth, and they think it's hell." Harry Truman
THE GOLDEN RULE OF DISINFORMERS:
Always accuse your adversary of whatever is true about yourself.
"Nothing has more retarded the advancement of learning than the disposition
of vulgar minds to ridicule and vilify what they do not understand."
Dr.Samuel Johnson.
The Revelations of Jesus Christ:
<http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/book_detail.asp?isbn=0-595-28287-3>
Discourses of Brigham Young, Pg.68
As it has always been, and will be yet for some time, when the sons
of God assemble together Satan will be on hand as an accuser of the
brethren, to find fault with those who are trying to do good.
"But we ask, does it remain for a people who never had faith enough to call
down one scrap of revelation from heaven, and for all they have now are
indebted
to the faith of another people...does it remain for them to say how much God
has
spoken and how much He has not spoken?" Joseph Smith
"Every generation has flattered itself that it is a little better than the
one that preceded it. Every generation has prided itself in its knowledge
and great advancement in the arts and sciences and its superiority over
preceding generations; yet the power of the adversary and his hatred of
righteousness and truth are as great to-day as they ever were since the
creation of the earth." Journal of Discourses, Vol.11, Pg.228 - Pg.229,
George Q. Cannon, May 6, 1866
"Some men are natural born saints; whenever a principle is advanced they
understand it, and drink it in; * * * while there are others who do not
understand and oppose every principle that is not clear to their mind. This
can be accounted for, that we are not all pure blooded, for Ephraim became
foolish and mixed up with the gentiles. When we find the pure blood of
Ephraim, we find a natural born child of God and there is nothing in the
gospel that is objectionable to them, but the others have to exercise faith
in God and humble themselves before Him and live for it." (Deseret Weekly,
50:250-251)
.
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| User: "Woody Brison" |
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| Title: Re: Exposing Creationist Bulls*** About Pasteur |
30 Jun 2007 10:08:35 PM |
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On Jun 30, 1:36 pm, "Aaron Kim" <a...@artbulla.com> wrote:
"Woody Brison" <woody.bri...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1182867672.988325.261400@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 8, 12:39 pm, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
I get the impression that Art here is under the delusion that
Scripture originates from his own mouth.
Yeah, he used to be a Mormon but he got tangled up in some
bogus revelation and ran away. Decided that the Lord was
calling him as the next Prophet. Funny thing, the men in
Salt Lake didn't agree and he wound up starting his own
church. Recognizes as scripture: the Bible, plus the LDS
scriptures, plus his own revelations, plus all the cussing
that he himself does. So far his church consists of himself
plus his one sidekick Kim. At one point there were two
sidekicks, Aaron Kim and Jong Kim and a couple of women or
so it was represented. They had to hide out in Mexico, some
sort of trouble with the U.S. law enforcement. Art Bulla
the Fulla Bulla Man said he was the guy in the prophecy -
marred more than any man (Isaiah 52:14). But his sidekick
posted a photo of him and he seems normal enough in
physical appearance. So I guess the marring is in the
mental dept.
If you weren't lying to yourself or deluded,
Why would I lie to myself? I know exactly who I am and
what I am.
... you'd know as prophesied by
Brigham Young that in 1978 the Mormon Church committed apostasy
Let's start with some basic education for you. When a
person writes about and studies the Church and its
doctrines intensively for years as you have, calling it the
"Mormon Church" will not fly. Usage is well explained in the
style guide: <http://tinyurl.com/238kzh>
Brigham Young did not prophesy that the Church would
apostatize in 1978 or at any other time. He prophecied that
it would continue, in full commission, until the Savior
returns. While I'm thinking of the exact quote, here's one
from Heber C. Kimball:
I think it is twenty-seven or twenty-eight years since I
came into this Church. My friends and relatives said it
would come to naught probably in about a year. I told
them it was a Church and kingdom which God had set up,
and it never would come to naught; and I now say, it
never will be overcome worlds without end. I know this
just as well as I know I see you to-day. ... All the
nations upon this earth will crumble back to their mother
earth, but this Church will stand for ever; so you may
set your hearts at rest upon that point... Wicked men and
wicked spirits may bring into requisition all the wisdom
and cunning they possess to devise plans to overthrow
this kingdom, but all their deep-laid plots will fail.
They cannot do a thing to hinder the progress of this
Work, but everything they do will promote it and bring it
more and more into notice, from this time henceforth and
for ever. I know it, and all hell cannot prevail against
it; for Jesus says, "And upon this rock will I build my
church, and the gates of hell cannot prevail against it."
It is the same church that he established in his day
which he has renewed unto us, with the same Priesthood
and the same authority, and the Lord God will back up
this kingdom and cause it to spread like a thrifty plant,
and bring about his great purposes by the hands of those
who cleave to it. -Heber C. Kimball, April 31, 1859; JD
11:95
... by giving
blacks the Priesthood.
Brigham Young did not say the Church would never give the
blacks the priesthood. He said that at the present time
(then) they could not get it.
You and Art have been preaching this falsehood for how
many years now? Meanwhile, the Church has fully integrated
the black people in and we've moved ahead.
Duh, where's me mind? 1978 to 2007 is 29 years.
... From the inception of the Church in 1830 to that
time, it was a doctrine that blacks cannot receive the Priesthood.
And the Lord changed this in 1978. President Kimball was
as close to the Lord as any ordinary man that ever lived,
and he got the revelation. He told it to the Twelve and
they all got the same revelation. I heard it from Bruce R.
McConkie the next day and **I** got the same revelation.
... When the
Church disobeys the Lord, the Priesthood departs.
True enough, but the Church hasn't and the Priesthood
hasn't. I've been here, a member for 35 years. There's
been no change, no loss of the Spirit, in the Church that
can be marked to 1978.
... You may not know this or
maybe you do, the Priesthood is not limited to the Church. The Priesthood
circumscribes the Church and there are other organizations within the
Priesthood besides the Church.
This is true, but not useful information. There is no task
or activity that the priesthood does separate from the
Church. Where the Church is, the priesthood is and vice
versa, or soon will be.
... The keys of the Priesthood were given to Art
Not true. Why would they be?
who at the time was a 70 Apostle in 1979.
There is no office in the priesthood called "70 Apostle".
... The Church chooses the President
but the Lord chooses the Prophet called the Lord's Anointed.
Again not true. The Lord chooses the President of the
Church, who is also called the Lord's annointed. He
chooses the President in a manner that cannot be mistaken
by anyone. The senior Apostle is always set apart as the
President. When he dies, then the next senior Apostle is
set apart as the President. It's that simple. The Lord
decides who's going to be next and preserves that man's
life so he gets the office. All the Apostles help choose
the new Apostle to fill the vacancy. In the last 35 years
by my own direct observation, they've all been strong in
the Spirit, wise, articulate, knowledgeable, and have the
full power of the Priesthood. Come and see.
... The President
and Lord's Anointed are two separate offices.
You've got to realize that Art has so filled you with
looney tunes that you've got a row to ***** ahead of you
getting them out of your soul. He has been improvising and
pretending for many years. It's basically a testament to
the power of the human mind to be able to twist anything to
become self-justification.
... Joseph Smith received the keys
to the Melchisedek Priesthood from resurrected Peter, James, and John in
1829.
With one correction: John wasn't resurrected, he was
translated.
Also, James wasn't named James, but that name will do for
now.
... The Church wasn't formed until the following year. So while you could
state this was just the order of things, it still doesn't change the fact
that the Priesthood existed before the Church did.
Not true; the Priesthood has always existed, and so has the
Church.
... Your Church now holds as
much authority as the rest of the sectarian churches.
As much and more!
... Does your President
receive "Thus saith the Lord" revelations
Yes,
... like Art does.
No.
... The Spirit
testifies Art is a true Prophet.
Remember, there's more than one "Spirit".
There are several known good tests for Prophets. The best
one is found in Matt. 7:15-20 - a true prophet of God will
bring good results. What good results has Art ever brought?
While he's hiding out in Mexico, getting old and cussing at
people on ARM, the real prophet has directed the design,
construction, and dedicated over 100 Temples and something
like 10,000 chapels, sent literally thousands of tons of
relief supplies delivered to disaster areas, trained
hundreds of thousands of leaders, directed the Apostles to
organize many hundreds of stakes and reorganize tens of
thousands of them. Literally millions of people's Temple
work has gotten done that certainly wouldn't have yet been
done without his efforts; he's written numerous books,
urging righteousness and repentance - published by presses
not controlled by the Church mind you. Thousands of people
have come back into the Church and gotten their priesthood
and Temple blessings restored under his personal direction
and approval. And that's just off the top of my head.
The results cannot lie.
... He is the One Mighty and Strong prophesied
in D&C 85:7.
No, Art's an old burnt-out looney.
(Find out if Woody is a Mormon or not)
Yes, do that, and tell me if I am. I really want to know.
Mormon was great, and I wouldn't mind being just like him.
If you think about it, what other Prophet has done such a
great thing as he did? Writing a book that been endorsed
by the Lord as a primary tool in the Restoration and
preparation of His people for his Second Coming. You might
cling to the Brother of Jared or Noah or Abraham or Moses
or Peter or Paul, and great they were, but those of us
alive in these times have a perspective at the bottom of
the trench. This time is the critical time in the history
of the earth. What we do here and now, what we decide,
will determine the future of the earth. Sure you can open
your 2/3 sealed portion - during good conditions, what's to
prevent it? The Book of Mormon is pulling its weight under
totally adverse conditions.
Wood
<http://users.sisna.com/wwbrison>
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| User: "Aaron Kim" |
|
| Title: Re: Exposing Creationist Bulls*** About Pasteur |
03 Aug 2007 03:06:11 PM |
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|
"Woody Brison" <woody.brison@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1183259315.208778.187900@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 30, 1:36 pm, "Aaron Kim" <a...@artbulla.com> wrote:
"Woody Brison" <woody.bri...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1182867672.988325.261400@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 8, 12:39 pm, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
I get the impression that Art here is under the delusion that
Scripture originates from his own mouth.
Yeah, he used to be a Mormon but he got tangled up in some
bogus revelation and ran away. Decided that the Lord was
calling him as the next Prophet. Funny thing, the men in
Salt Lake didn't agree and he wound up starting his own
church. Recognizes as scripture: the Bible, plus the LDS
scriptures, plus his own revelations, plus all the cussing
that he himself does. So far his church consists of himself
plus his one sidekick Kim. At one point there were two
sidekicks, Aaron Kim and Jong Kim and a couple of women or
so it was represented. They had to hide out in Mexico, some
sort of trouble with the U.S. law enforcement. Art Bulla
the Fulla Bulla Man said he was the guy in the prophecy -
marred more than any man (Isaiah 52:14). But his sidekick
posted a photo of him and he seems normal enough in
physical appearance. So I guess the marring is in the
mental dept.
If you weren't lying to yourself or deluded,
Why would I lie to myself? I know exactly who I am and
what I am.
You lie about Art's history, liar. Art was living in the mountains of Utah
during the 80s due to the persecution he faced by preaching the Gospel. You
will lie about other things like Mormonism as well. Art was never hiding out
from the law. It's just when he would preach the Gospel, the police would
cause him trouble. For example, he was passing out tracts outside a stake a
police officer came up to him and started to berate Art and wanted him not
to pass out tracts. Other time, he was on the campus of University of Utah
and he was confronted by the police. At work, unable to restrain the Spirit,
he preached the Gospel at work during breaks and his employers did not want
him to preach so he was was fired. During that time he had his own radio
show at KTKK and he preached the Gospel. Neither I or Jong met Art till
after 2000. Art never hided out with any women. You should get your facts
straight before you slander people.
Btw, Joseph Smith was hunted by law enforcement many times during his
ministry. I believe he was in and out of jail at least forty times. Paul and
the Apostles were imprisoned as well. All of the true Saints have been tried
in similar type fashion. However you being the typical stuck up cultural
Mormon look down on the true Prophets falsely believing if you were alive in
the days of the Prophets you would not have rejected them but embraced them.
... you'd know as prophesied by
Brigham Young that in 1978 the Mormon Church committed apostasy
Let's start with some basic education for you. When a
person writes about and studies the Church and its
doctrines intensively for years as you have, calling it the
"Mormon Church" will not fly. Usage is well explained in the
style guide: <http://tinyurl.com/238kzh>
Brigham Young did not prophesy that the Church would
apostatize in 1978 or at any other time. He prophecied that
it would continue, in full commission, until the Savior
returns. While I'm thinking of the exact quote, here's one
from Heber C. Kimball:
Yes, he did say that. I guess I'll have to repeat the sermon by Brigham
Young.
"Let this Church which is called the Kingdom of God on earth. We will
summons the First Presidency, the Twelve, the High Council, the Bishopric,
and all the Elders of Israel, suppose we summons them to appear here, and
here declare that it is right to mingle our seed with the black race of
Cain, that they shall come in with us, and be partakers with us, of all the
blessings that God has given to us. ON THAT VERY DAY AND HOUR THAT WE SHOULD
DO, the Priesthood is taken from this church and kingdom, and God leaves us
to our fate. The moment we consent to mingle with the seed of Cain, THE
CHURCH MUST (EVENTUALLY) GO TO DESTRUCTION, and we should receive the curse
which has been placed upon the seed of Cain, and never more be numbered with
the children of Adam, who are heirs to the Priesthood, until that curse be
removed."
From this quote it makes it plain that by giving blacks the Priesthood any
time in the future, "the Priesthood is taken from this church and kingdom."
I think it is twenty-seven or twenty-eight years since I
came into this Church. My friends and relatives said it
would come to naught probably in about a year. I told
them it was a Church and kingdom which God had set up,
and it never would come to naught; and I now say, it
never will be overcome worlds without end. I know this
just as well as I know I see you to-day. ... All the
nations upon this earth will crumble back to their mother
earth, but this Church will stand for ever; so you may
set your hearts at rest upon that point... Wicked men and
wicked spirits may bring into requisition all the wisdom
and cunning they possess to devise plans to overthrow
this kingdom, but all their deep-laid plots will fail.
They cannot do a thing to hinder the progress of this
Work, but everything they do will promote it and bring it
more and more into notice, from this time henceforth and
for ever. I know it, and all hell cannot prevail against
it; for Jesus says, "And upon this rock will I build my
church, and the gates of hell cannot prevail against it."
It is the same church that he established in his day
which he has renewed unto us, with the same Priesthood
and the same authority, and the Lord God will back up
this kingdom and cause it to spread like a thrifty plant,
and bring about his great purposes by the hands of those
who cleave to it. -Heber C. Kimball, April 31, 1859; JD
11:95
What Heber Kimball was talking about is that the spirit of the Church and
Kingdom always lasts. The authority of the Priesthood can be wrested away,
it can switch hands which is what happened.
Brigham Young did not say the Church would never give the
blacks the priesthood. He said that at the present time
(then) they could not get it.
"ON THAT VERY DAY AND HOUR THAT WE SHOULD DO, the Priesthood is taken from
this church and kingdom, and God leaves us to our fate. The moment we
consent to mingle with the seed of Cain, THE CHURCH MUST (EVENTUALLY) GO TO
DESTRUCTION, and we should receive the curse which has been placed upon the
seed of Cain, and never more be numbered with the children of Adam, who are
heirs to the Priesthood, until that curse be removed."
It could not be any more plain that you are wrong. Joseph Smith foresaw the
day the Church would apostatize and the Lord as a backup plan would raise up
a special Prophet called the One Mighty and Strong to build up the Kingdom
of God and Church. I have a testimony by the Holy Spirit that this is Art. I
speak the truth.
7 And it shall come to pass that I, the Lord God, will send one mighty and
strong, holding the scepter of power in his hand, clothed with light for a
covering, whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words; while his bowels
shall be a fountain of truth, to set in order the house of God (the people
of God not a building), and to arrange by lot the inheritances of the saints
whose names are found, and the names of their fathers, and of their
children, enrolled in the book of the law of God;
D&C 85
1 Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim( Mormons), whose
glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys
of them that are overcome with wine!
2 Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one (Art Bulla), which as a
tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters
overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand.
3 The crown of pride, the drunkards of Ephraim, shall be trodden under feet:
4 And the glorious beauty, which is on the head of the fat valley, shall be
a fading flower, and as the hasty fruit before the summer; which when he
that looketh upon it seeth, while it is yet in his hand he eateth it up. 5
In that day shall the LORD of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a
diadem of beauty, unto the residue of his people, (the gathering of Zion;
see Isaiah 11:10 for same future event)
Isaiah 28
"The decreed mission of the 'One Mighty and Strong' is the second greatest
and the second most glorious doctrine found in holy writ. It is a most
logical event. It is divine. If records did not reveal his coming, and the
Church offered membership in her institution as the only necessary
requirement for one to enter Zion when it is redeemed; then that very
principle would prove her a man-made institution. On the other hand, if her
doctrines set forth that God has "one mighty and strong" who is to come and
weed out the unworthy, and judge the remainder of us a little more severely,
free from all favoritism, then that indicates she is divine." Francis
Michael Darter Zion's Redemption p. 114.
Journal of Joseph W. Musser: September 28, 1938. ... Brother Peay also told
of hearing Joshua Jones of Provo tell of hearing Brigham Young say, "The
time will come when this people are led onto the very brink of apostacy."
Jones made an entry of it in his Journal. The speech was made in the Old
Bowery at Provo. Learned through Lorin C. Woolley, that his father, John W.
Woolley, attended the above meeting, and upon arriving home at Centerville
he told Lorin and his mother of the incident. He related it thusly:
"President Young, being filled with the Holy Ghost, said, `The time will
come when this people will be led onto the very brink of hell by their
leaders, then the one mighty and strong will come to set the house of God in
order.'"
You and Art have been preaching this falsehood for how
many years now? Meanwhile, the Church has fully integrated
the black people in and we've moved ahead.
Duh, where's me mind? 1978 to 2007 is 29 years.
... From the inception of the Church in 1830 to that
time, it was a doctrine that blacks cannot receive the Priesthood.
And the Lord changed this in 1978. President Kimball was
as close to the Lord as any ordinary man that ever lived,
and he got the revelation. He told it to the Twelve and
they all got the same revelation. I heard it from Bruce R.
McConkie the next day and **I** got the same revelation.
The Mormons were pressured by the IRS at the behest of President Jimmy
Carter that if they did not reverse their ban of blacks receiving the
Priesthood they would lose their tax exempt status. So the Mormons folded.
That's the real reason.
R E V E L A T I O N
and
WORTHY MALE MEMBERS
by
SPENCER W. KIMBALL
R E V E L A T I O N
and
T H E H O L Y P R I E S T H O O D
by
OGDEN KRAUT
DESERET NEWS
128th year--No. 30880 PAGESSALT LAKE CITY, UTAH
20 CENTS FRIDAY, JUNE 9, 1978 Copyright Deseret News 1978
LDS Church extends priesthood to all worthy male members
The First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
today released the following statement:
As we have witnessed the expansion of the work of the Lord over the earth,
we have been grateful that people of many nations have responded to the
message of the restored gospel, and have joined the church in
ever-increasing numbers. This, in turn, has inspired us with a desire to
extend to every worthy member of the church all of the privileges and
blessings which the gospel affords.
Aware of the promises made by the prophets and presidents of the church who
have preceded us that at some time, in God's eternal plan, all of our
brethren who are worthy may receive the priesthood, and witnessing the
faithfulness of those from whom the priesthood has been withheld, we have
pleaded long and earnestly in behalf of these, our faithful brethren,
spending many hours in the upper room of the Temple supplicating the Lord
for divine guidance.
He has heard our prayers. and by revelation has confirmed that the long
promised day has come when every, faithful, worthy man in the church may
receive the holy priesthood with power to exercise its divine authority, and
enjoy with his loved ones every blessing that flows therefrom, including the
blessings of the temple. Accordingly, all worthy male members of the church
may be ordained to the priesthood without regard for race or color.
Priesthood leaders are instructed to follow the policy of carefully
interviewing all candidates for ordination to either the Aaronic or
Melchizedek Priesthood to insure that they meet the established standards
for worthiness.
We declare with soberness that the Lord has now made known his will for the
blessing of an his children throughout the earth who will hearken to the
voice of his authorized servants, and prepare themselves to receive every
blessing of the gospel.
Sincerely yours,
Spencer W. Kimball
N. Eldon Tanner
Marion G. Romney
the First Presidency
[1] July 4, 1978
President Spencer W. Kimball
Church Office Building
47 East South Temple
Salt Lake City, Utah 84103
Dear President Kimball:
One of my children has recently returned from a Church mission and three
more have been preparing to go on missions. However, the recent announcement
that the Priesthood can now be given to the Negroes has raised several
questions in my mind. Before I can sustain or support my children on
missions for the Church, I must have the following ten questions
satisfactorily answered.
1. This announcement contradicts the statements of all previous presidencies
of the Church. The word of the Lord should be consistent and unchangeable,
"for God doth not walk in crooked paths, neither doth he vary from that
which he hath said...." (D.& C. 3:2)
President Brigham Young declared that:
"The Lord said I will not kill Cain, but I will put a mark upon him, and
that mark will be seen upon the face of every Negro upon the face of the
earth; and it is the decree of God that that mark shall remain upon the seed
of Cain until the seed of Abel shall be redeemed and Cain shall not receive
the priesthood until the time of that redemption. (Wilford Woodruff, by
Cowley, p. 351)
President Brigham Young had received the word of the Lord on this matter and
once remarked:
Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white
man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain,
the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. THIS WILL ALWAYS BE
SO. (J.D. 10:110)
And again:
How long is that race to endure the dreadful curse that is upon them? That
curse will remain upon them and they never can hold the Priesthood or share
in it until all the other descendants of Adam have received the promises and
enjoyed the blessings of the Priesthood and the keys thereof.... (J.D.
7:290)
When there is a contradiction between past and present prophets, then
someone is wrong. Either the early presidencies of the Church were wrong and
those today are right--or else the former presidents of the Church were
inspired of God and those today are not. One or the other is right, or else
they are all wrong together. Yet, we know the early men of the Church were
led of God--so how can we justify this contradiction by saying the leaders
of today are also right?
[2] It appears that this "revelation", like the Manifesto is not a new
revelation, but rather a statement, by the president of the Church,
abandoning revelations that have previously been given. Why is there such a
contradiction in the word of God?
2. Why was this revelation proclaimed as a doctrine of the Church before the
members had an opportunity to vote on it? We are told by the Lord that "all
things MUST be done in order, and by COMMON CONSENT in the Church, by the
prayer of faith." (D. & C. 28:13; see also D. & C. 26:2) This is a privilege
and a duty of the members. The right of common consent in God's Church
prevents dictatorship so that unwanted decrees cannot be hoisted upon its
members without their approval. Even the ancient church of God followed this
procedure. Why has this new edict overturned the established order of
procedure as outlined by the Lord?
3. Why was the announcement of this revelation given to the public news
media before it was published or printed in any of the Church publications,
or before it was announced to the members of the Church? The haste and
manner by which it was proclaimed to the world, rather than to the members,
has the essence of satisfying public clamor rather than the needs of the
Church. The revelations of the Lord have always been for the benefit of
Church members, not to meet the demands of society or for gentile
approbation. Was this announcement generated to satisfy Civil Rights groups
and appease the wrath of those bringing lawsuits to you and the Church,
rather than for some spiritual merits achieved by the Negroes, of which we
are all unaware?
4. Within two days after this announcement, Negroes were being ordained to
the Melchizedek Priesthood. Within two weeks of that announcement, Negroes
were administering the sacrament, taking out their endowments, being sealed
in mixed marriages in the Temple, and being called on missions! Why the
extreme rush to put the Negro into these positions and appointments without
proceeding through the same step by step gradations that have been required
of the whites? Men should be advanced to the Priesthood according to their
faithfulness and accomplishments in each of the offices of the Church to
prove their worthiness for Priesthood advancement. Now the Negro is
receiving preferential treatment, and Church procedure with the Negro is
creating a discrimination against the white man.
5. Where is this revelation? If such a revelation is to be thrust upon four
million members of the Church as official doctrine, they are entitled to
read it. If it is a revelation, then it should be published, voted upon, and
added to the standard works of the Church as scripture. If the Lord should
reveal something to you, which is of a personal nature, then you have the
right to keep it secret, and probably should. But when a revelation comes
through the president of the Church for its members, then they are entitled
to have it.
On June 17, 1933, the First Presidency, under President Heber J. Grant,
issued the following statement:
It is alleged that on September 26, 1886, President John Taylor received a
revelation from the purported text of which is given in publications....
[3] As to this pretended revelation, it should be said that the archives of
the Church contain no such revelation; the archives contain no record of any
such revelation, nor any evidence justifying a belief that any such
revelation was ever given.
From the personal knowledge of some of us, from the uniform and common
recollection of the presiding quorums of the Church, from the absence in the
Church archives of any evidence whatsoever justifying any belief that such a
revelation was given, we are justified in affirming that no such revelation
exists. (Way of the Master, by Mark E. Petersen, p. 58)
I called up to the Church Archives to inquire about obtaining a copy of this
latest revelation, but they informed me that they do not have any copy of
it, nor do they know the whereabouts of that revelation. Am I justified then
in saying that since "the archives of the Church contain no such revelation
nor any evidence justifying belief that any such revelation was given, that
I am also "justified in affirming that no such revelation exists?"
On December 6, 1974, you sent a letter to "All Stake and Mission Presidents,
Bishops and Branch Presidents in the Western United States and Western
Canada" recommending that they use the book The Way of the Master by Elder
Petersen, to help counsel "members of the Church who may be influenced by
false doctrine being disseminated by apostate cultist groups." Also you
stated that you wanted them to be informed by that book so "no member of the
Church be led astray by those who covertly try to teach falsehoods." You
recommended reading Chapters 8 through 15 for this purpose. May I remind you
of a paragraph in Chapter 11 which states:
Furthermore, so far as the authorities of the Church are concerned and so
far as the members of the Church are concerned, since this pretended
revelation, if ever given, was never presented to and adopted by the Church
or by any council of the Church, and since to the contrary, an inspired rule
of action, the Manifesto, was (subsequently to the pretended revelation)
presented to and adopted by the Church, which inspired rule in its terms,
purport, and effect was directly opposite to the interpretation given to the
pretended revelation, the said pretended revelation could have no validity
and no binding effect and force upon Church members, and action under it
would be unauthorized, illegal, and void." (The Way of the Master, p. 58)
Now then, since your "revelation" was "never presented to and adopted by the
members of the Church" and your revelation is "opposite to the inspired rule
in its terms, purport, and was directly opposite to" those revelations and
teachings of the scriptures and prophets before you, then should I consider
that your "revelation could have no validity and no binding effect and force
upon Church members, and action under it would be unauthorized, illegal, and
void?"
At least the Revelation of 1886 began by saying, "Thus saith the Lord." It
also said, "All commandments that I give must be obeyed by those calling [4]
themselves by my name, unless they are revoked by me or by my authority, and
how can I revoke an everlasting covenant; For I the Lord am everlasting and
my everlasting covenants cannot be abrogated, nor done away with but they
stand forever."
The hallmark of distinction between a prophet of Mormonism and all the rest
of the world is a "Thus saith the Lord" revelation which marks the stamp of
Divine approval on it. This is the distinction between false prophets and
true prophets. Also, a true prophet will never call a "Thus saith the Lord"
revelation from God a "concocted," "purported" or "spurious" revelation.
Neither will he oppose it or its doctrines. As a matter of fact, the Prophet
Joseph Smith warned members that the devil could be detected "by his
contradicting a former revelation" from the Lord. (T.P.J.S., p. 215)
In summary, then, your "revelation" (a) contradicts a former revelation, (b)
it has not been voted upon by the members of the Church, and (c) it is not
to be found in the Archives of the Church or in any of the Church
publications. How then can we have any assurance that it came from God?
6. Calling the house of Cain to receive the rights of the Priesthood makes a
distinct change in our Articles of Faith. Since we no longer apparently
believe in "...the literal gathering of Israel" and the "...restoration of
the ten tribes," but now have included the "tribe" of Cain, I presume these
articles will have to be re-written. The Lord declared that we "...are
called to bring to pass the gathering of mine elect..." (D. & C. 29:7). What
has brought about this change that the call is being made to the unelected?
Is there a justification and reason for this reversal in the articles of our
faith?
7. According to the word of the Lord, the descendants of Cain received a
dark skin, which was a distinguishing feature of those who would be
"...cursed as pertaining to the Priesthood," and should not have the right
of possessing the Priesthood. (Abraham 1:27) If those of that lineage are
worthy to receive the Priesthood, why are they still cursed with a black
skin? If God placed this mark upon that certain lineage for a particular
reason, wouldn't He remove that mark when it was time for them to obtain the
rights of the Priesthood? He has removed that stigma before (2 Nephi 30:6),
and He can do this again if He chooses to bestow Priesthood upon them.
The skin of blackness was a curse given to the Negro race because of their
disappointing weakness in the pre-existence; therefore, they forfeited the
right to obtain the Priesthood in mortality. If they are still being born
black, they must still be of that class to whom the curse was given in the
pre-existence. How can there be any justification for giving the Priesthood
to anyone who still has the mark of a curse from their pre-mortal life?
8. Do members of the Church now have any justifiable grounds for segregation
of the races? Before this announcement came, members had the right of
religious convictions for not intermarrying and inter-mixing races, but now
there are no apparent grounds to prevent intermarriage. Any mention of
discrimination by natural selection, or right of preference, can now bring
trouble and lawsuits by any blacks who wish to use the law for their own
personal wishes. What right are members left to claim segregation of their
own race?
[5] 9. How long, and how many times, has the presidency of the Church
appealed to the Lord for a change on this issue? The very fact that the Lord
has warned us not to "ask for that which you ought not" (D. & C. 8:10)
because "if ye ask anything that is not expedient for you, it shall turn
unto your condemnation" (D.& C. 88:65), should be remembered. When Joseph
Smith continually pleaded to the Lord for permission to give the 116 pages
of the Book of Mormon manuscript to Martin Harris, the Lord finally
consented. The Lord finally gave him permission, not because it was right
but because of Joseph's persistence. I am wondering if such a situation has
again occurred.
Also, the prophet Balaam, because of his persistence, chose a different path
to follow from that which the Lord revealed to him. (See Numbers 22)
Fifteen years ago, Hugh B. Brown told the news media that the First
Presidency was seeking for possible ways to change this ban to the Negroes
and that they were considering abandoning this doctrine in the Church. The
New York Times published the account in the following report:
Salt Lake City, June 3--The top leadership of the Mormon Church is
seriously considering the abandonment of its historic policy of
discrimination against Negroes. ***
One of the highest officers of the Church said today that the possibility
of removing this religious disability against Negroes has been under serious
consideration.
"We are in the midst of a survey looking toward the possibility of
admitting Negroes," said Hugh B. Brown, one of the two counselors serving
President David O. McKay in the First Presidency of the Mormon Church. ***
Mr. Brown, a 79-year-old former attorneys said he believed that if the
change were made, it would be a doctrinal revision for Mormonism of a
magnitude matching the abandonment of polygamy in 1890. (New York Times,
June 7, 1963)
For the fifteen years since then, the Church has been the victim of
lawsuits, Civil Rights protestors, unwarranted attacks by the news media,
and a constant clamor from public opinion for this change. Has a constant
and repetitious appeal to the Lord brought about this reversal, just as it
was granted to Joseph Smith?
10. Why have written revelations and spiritual gifts declined so much over
the past 80 or 90 years? The last written revelation that carried a "Thus
saith the Lord" was recorded in 1889 which stated in part:
Thus saith the Lord...Let not my servants who are called to the Presidency
of my Church deny my word or my law, which concerns the salvation of the
children of men.... Place not yourselves in jeopardy to your enemies by
promise.
Fear not the wicked and ungodly.
[6] Search the scriptures, for they are they which testify of me; also those
revelations which I have given to my servant Joseph, and to all my servants
since the world began, which are recorded in the record of divine truth.
The eyes of the Lord and the Heavenly Hosts are watching over you and your
acts. Therefore, be faithful until I come.
The Manifesto, which was issued a few months later, was of course a denial
of His word, and it placed members of the Church into jeopardy by promise
with their enemies. This was the last time the Church as a body has heard a
"Thus saith the Lord" revelation.
Your "revelation" is another promise to the demands of our enemies and a
denial of God's word on the subject of Priesthood. Can these be the reasons
that spiritual gifts, and the written revelations of God, have discontinued
in the Church?
* * * * *
All of this brings me to the sobering thought that this "revelation" which
you claim may not be from the Lord! In fact, all of the evidence so far
leads to this conclusion. If your "revelation" is not from God, or even if
your "revelation" is premature, the consequences could be catastrophic!
President Brigham Young said:
Let this Church which is called the Kingdom of God on the earth; we will
summons the First Presidency, the Twelve, the High Council, the Bishopric,
and all the Elders of Israel, suppose we summons them and appear here, and
here declare that it is right to mingle our seed with the black race of
Cain, that they shall come in with us and be partakers with us of all the
blessings God has given to us. On that very day and hour we should do so,
the Priesthood is taken from this Church and Kingdom and God leaves us to
our fate. The moment we consent to mingle with the seed of Cain, the Church
must go to destruction--we should receive the curse which has been placed
upon the seed of Cain, and never more be numbered with the children of Adam
who are heirs to the Priesthood until that curse be removed. (Speech by
Governor Brigham Young in Joint Session of the Legislature, giving his views
on slavery, February 5, 1852.)
According to this, then, every man in the Church who tries to give the
Priesthood to the Negro, or sanctions giving it to them, must, of course,
lose his own Priesthood. In such a condition, "it signifies then, that the
ordinances must be kept in the very way God has appointed; otherwise, their
Priesthood will prove a cursing instead of a blessing." (T.P.J.S., p. 169)
All of the descendants of those who mix their seed with the Canaanites will
be deprived of the Priesthood, for "any man having one drop of the seed of
Cain in him cannot receive the Priesthood.... (Wilford Woodruff, p. 351)
[7] All those of the black race who think they possess the Priesthood will
learn that they have been deceived by the present leaders of the Church.
All of the black people, and those who have ordained them, who give
ordinations and perform ordinances will learn that they were of no avail.
All their administrations will be vain. "The gifts of God are all useful in
their place, but when they are applied to that which God does not intend,
they prove an injury, a snare and a curse instead of a blessing." (T.P.J.S.,
p. 248)
All those who have put their trust in your arm will learn that they have
been deceived and cursed. (D. & C. 1:19; 2 Nephi 4:34; Jer. 17:5)
All those who seek to exalt the Negro will only bring themselves down to
their station and lose the "rights of the Priesthood" until the Negro does
receive it.
All those who believe that you received a true revelation and later learn
that it was not true, would say that you were guilty of "blasphemy" and that
you were a false prophet because you produced a revelation that was not of
God. The law of God declares such to be guilty of death. (See Deut. 13:1-5)
All of the temples would become corrupted by those who enter without the
Priesthood. Their ordinances and offerings would no longer be acceptable to
the Lord, as in the case of Cain.
In such a condition the Lord would someday be forced to return and "set His
house in order" and remove the Canaanite from His temples, as foretold in
the scriptures: "...and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in
the house of the Lord of hosts." (Zach. 14:21)
If your "revelation" is not from the Lord, then you must someday answer to
your forefathers who were before you. Your grandfather, Heber C. Kimball,
like other great men, "...are not far from us, and know and understand our
thoughts, feelings, and motions, and are often pained therewith. (T.P.J.S.,
p. 326) From Heber C. Kimball to Father Abraham you will have to answer for
letting the Canaanites into the House of the Lord and defiling His temples.
You will have to explain why you allowed the Negro into the temples, but
have excommunicated men and women who have believed and lived the principles
that your forefathers had taught as being the fulness of the gospel. To more
than four million members you will have to answer for a curse upon the House
of Israel.
The consequences and results of your "revelation" could prove to be the
forfeiture of celestial blessings from which sorrow and regret may never be
overcome through all the eternities.
[8] Because these Priesthood matters are of such vital importance, I have
been prompted to write this letter. I would very much appreciate your
interest and concern to such an extent that you would respond to these
questions.
Sincerely,
Ogden Kraut
cc: Members of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve
DESERET NEWS, WEEKEND OF JUNE 10, 1978 A3
Dissident calls change `convenient'
Three men who have been excommunicated from The Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter day Saints said today they were happy to see the ban lifted on blacks
holding the priesthood, but one called it "a revelation of convenience."
All three said they felt agitation by dissidents helped bring about the
change announced Friday by the First Presidency of the church.
One of the men, H. Byron Marchant, voluntarily dropped his civil litigation
against Church President Spencer W. Kimball a few hours after the
announcement.
Marchant's attorney, Brian Barnard, said the lawsuit was withdrawn because
he felt the issue is now resolved.
Marchant opposed the church's previous policy of excluding blacks from
ordinations. He was charged in April with trespassing after his arrest in
the vicinity of the church's April General Conference.
Douglas A. Wallace, a Vancouver Wash., attorney who was excommunicated in
1976 after performing an unauthorized ordination of a black man to the
priesthood, said he "wasn't surprised" by the announcement.
"It was a revelation of convenience," said Wallace, "just as the decision
in 1890 to stop polygamy was politically inspired."
He said he thought the change would have "very little impact unless the
church begins to work among minorities."
Wallace had filed several lawsuits against the church since his
excommunication. A federal judge dismissed three suits last March. Wallace
had sought $2.2 million in damages from the church, contending its actions
had prevented him from practicing his religion.
John Fitzgerald, former Mormon chaplain, said he would be willing to return
to the church if leaders would rescind his excommunication, but said he
would not be rebaptized because he feels he did nothing wrong in objecting
to the issue.
He said he thought the change of policy was long overdue. "The church is
very wise in making the change now," he said, "because of the coming
dedication of the temple in Brazil where the church has had difficulty
telling which members have black ancestry."
DESERET NEWS
128th YEAR--NO. 309 50 PAGES SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH 20 CENTS
WEEKEND of JUNE 10, 1978
Carter praises LDS action
President Spencer W. Kimball was commended for "compassionate prayerfulness
and courage" by President Jimmy Carter as reaction continued today to the
First Presidency's announcement ending all racial barriers to priesthood
ordination.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints' 148 year-old practice of
barring blacks from the priesthood was swept away Friday in a statement
saying revelation, had been received "to extend to every worthy member of
our church all the privileges and blessings which the gospel affords.
"Accordingly, all worthy members of the church may be ordained to the
priesthood without regard for race or color."
Reaction to the dramatic statement was overwhelmingly positive as the news
swept across Utah and the nation Friday. Major news outlets held up editions
to get the news in; Church Office Building employees were swamped with
requests for additional comment by the news media and church members
themselves. Black LDS Church members were ecstatic. (See related stories on
A-3.)
In a telegram to President Kimball, President Carter said, "I welcomed
today your announcement as president and prophet of The Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints that henceforth all worthy men in your church
without regard for race or color relay have conferred upon them the
priesthood in your church.
"I commend you for your compassionate prayerfulness and courage in
receiving a new doctrine.
"This announcement brings a healing spirit to the world and reminds all men
and women that they are truly brothers and sisters."
Reaction of joyous black members was typified by James Dawson, a member of
the Mormon Tabernacle Choir: "I am overwhelmed . . . grateful .. . this is a
great blessing to the black brethren of the church."
The announcement Friday fulfilled statements made by most LDS Church
presidents since Joseph Smith that blacks would one day obtain the full
blessings of the church, including the priesthood.
Speaking against slavery, Brigham Young once told the Utah Legislature, ".
.. "the day will come when all that race (blacks) will be redeemed and
possess all the blessings which we now have."
That statement was formally restated by President Wilford Woodruff in a
First Presidency announcement and has been widely quoted by church leaders
ever since.
President Kimball, in a press conference shortly after assuming the church
leadership in 1973, said he had given the black-priesthood problem much
thought and prayer, and the day might come when blacks would be given the
priesthood.
He emphasized then that such a change in church practice would have to come
through a revelation from God.
"But we believe in revelation," he said. "We believe there are yet many
more things to be revealed from the Lord."--
In the Friday announcement, the First Presidency made it clear that the new
policy is based on revelation.
". . . we have pleaded long and earnestly in behalf of these, our faithful
brethren spending many hours in the upper room of the Temple supplicating
the Lord for divine guidance.
"He has heard our prayers, and by revelation has confirmed that the long
promised day has come when every faithful, worthy man in the church may
receive the holy priesthood . . . "
The announcement came after several months of careful study and
consideration by the First Presidency and Council of the Twelve.
A major problem the church has faced with its policy regarding blacks was
in Brazil, where the church is building a temple. Many people there are
mixed racially, and it is often impossible to determine whether church
See CARTER on A-3
Carter leads comment on LDS action
Continued from A-l
members have black ancestry.
The practice of denying blacks the priesthood has long been a difficult
public issue for the church, and in the past the church has been severely
criticized for it.
However, the announcement changing the practice came at a time when
comparatively little pressure was being received by the church to change it.
During the 1960s, when racial tensions often erupted into violence, the
church and its institutions were subjected to great hostility and repeated
protests, especially at athletic events.
Male LDS Church members generally receive the Aaronic Priesthood at the age
of 12 and the Melchizedek Priesthood, if they are deemed worthy, at age 18
or 19.
Priesthood holders are allowed to officiate in church ordinances, depending
upon which office they hold.
As news of the First Presidency's announcement swept across the country and
the world, it was hailed as "the most important day for the church of this
century, Dr. Sterling M. McMurrin, dean of the University of Utah Graduate
School and a longtime critic of the Church's position.
Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, said be shares the joy of the church First
Presidency and members throughout the world "that the answer to our sincere
and ongoing prayers to our Lord has come. . .
Salt Lake City Mayor Ted Wilson said, "According to my personal religious
beliefs God has spoken through the prophet of The Church of Jesus Christ
Latter-day Saints. I am more than delighted and gratified that people of all
races can now receive the full range of blessings from the church."
Passersby on the street interviewed by news media were nearly all pleased
with the church announcement.
The Salt Lake Branch, National Association for the Advancement of Colored
People sent a telegram to LDS church headquarters saying, "Congratulations
to you in the ads LDS Church upon today's announcement that all male members
regardless of race shall be received into the priesthood.
"We have been of the opinion for many years that your prior practice of
exclusion of blacks from progression . . . has extended into secular affairs
and has done much to sustain discrimination in areas of employment, housing,
education and cultural affairs.
"Your decision today will do much to change that opinion and undoubtable
will have an effect toward eradication of unjustifiable treatment to any
people based on race."
James E. Dooley, NAACP president, said he personally feels good about what
happened and received many phone calls from blacks, all positive.
Rabbi Abner Bergman, Congregation Kol Ami, said be was delighted when he
heard the news. "For some time the Mormon people have practiced equality and
fairness in their dealings with human beings of different faiths and racial
backgrounds," he said. "The statement issued by the church serves to give an
outward manifestation to what has long been unspoken personal relationships
of equality between Mormons and others.
"Because this statement will carry the weight of law within the church, it
will serve to make more fully manifest the ideas ideals and equally equality
the church upholds. "
Bishop Otis Charles, Episcopal diocese of Utah, said, "I think we should
share the joy that must be in the hearts of many people at this decision."
... When the
Church disobeys the Lord, the Priesthood departs.
True enough, but the Church hasn't and the Priesthood
hasn't. I've been here, a member for 35 years. There's
been no change, no loss of the Spirit, in the Church that
can be marked to 1978.
... You may not know this or
maybe you do, the Priesthood is not limited to the Church. The Priesthood
circumscribes the Church and there are other organizations within the
Priesthood besides the Church.
This is true, but not useful information. There is no task
or activity that the priesthood does separate from the
Church. Where the Church is, the priesthood is and vice
versa, or soon will be.
When plural marriage was first introduced, plural marriages were being
ordained without the knowledge of the Church.
So the Priesthood can operate outside the Church.
... The keys of the Priesthood were given to Art
Not true. Why would they be?
who at the time was a 70 Apostle in 1979.
There is no office in the priesthood called "70 Apostle".
You should. They're equal in authority to the Twelve.
He [Brigham Young] stated that the Seventies ARE ORDAINED APOSTLES and when
they go forth into the ministry they are sent with power to build up the
Kingdom in all the world and consequently have power to ordain High Priests
and also to ordain and organize a High Council." (Manuscript History of
Brigham Young, Dec. 14, 1845
Later when the Kirtland Temple was dedicated, the Prophet Joseph arose and
said:
I then called upon the quorums and congregation of Saints to acknowledge
the Twelve Apostles, who were present, as Prophets, Seers, Revelators, and
special witnesses to all the nations of the earth, holding the keys of the
kingdom, to unlock it, or cause it to be done among them, and uphold them by
their prayers, which they assented to by rising.
I next called upon the quorums and congregation of Saints to acknowledge
the presidents of Seventies, who act as their representatives, as Apostles
and special witnesses to the nations, to assist the Twelve in opening the
Gospel kingdom among all the people, and to uphold them by their prayers,
which they did by rising. (D.H.C. 2:417-18)
... The Church chooses the President
but the Lord chooses the Prophet called the Lord's Anointed.
Again not true. The Lord chooses the President of the
Church, who is also called the Lord's annointed. He
chooses the President in a manner that cannot be mistaken
by anyone. The senior Apostle is always set apart as the
President. When he dies, then the next senior Apostle is
set apart as the President. It's that simple. The Lord
decides who's going to be next and preserves that man's
life so he gets the office. All the Apostles help choose
the new Apostle to fill the vacancy. In the last 35 years
by my own direct observation, they've all been strong in
the Spirit, wise, articulate, knowledgeable, and have the
full power of the Priesthood. Come and see.
This is false. You don't seem to correctly understand what the Lord's
Anointed is.
Brigham Young; Journal of Discourses, 26 vols., 1:, p.133
"Perhaps it may make some of you stumble, were I to ask you a question-Does
a man's being a Prophet in this Church prove that he shall be the President
of it? I answer, no! A man may be a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, and it may
have nothing to do with his being the President of the Church. Suffice it to
say, that Joseph was the President of the Church, as long as he lived: the
people chose to have it so. He always filled that responsible station, by
the voice of the people. Can you find any revelation appointing him the
President of the Church? The keys of the Priesthood were committed to
Joseph, to build up the Kingdom of God on the earth, and were not to be
taken from him in time or in eternity; but when he was called to preside
over the Church, it was by the voice of the people; though he held the keys
of the Priesthood, independent of their voice."
''An assumption frequently made is that the authors of the prophetic books
of the Old Testament were the constituted authorities of the Church in their
eras. This, however, was not always the case. Some of them were even
considered rebels by the religious leaders of Israel in their days. Jeremiah
was one such prophet who stood outside of the Church. The established
Church, through its Priests, even attempted to put Jeremiah to death. Micah,
Amos, Hosea, and Zephaniah were also prophets who were critical of
corruption within the Church.
"These Old Testament prophets did not speak as representing the Church, but
as representing the Lord. Though the prophets may have held the higher
Priesthood authority, there is no Biblical indication that the general
Church membership of that time was aware of it." Thus Saith the Lord; Duane
S. Crowther, p. 148.
8 Now it came to pass, when Jeremiah had made an end of speaking all that
the LORD had commanded him to speak unto all the people, that the priests
and the prophets and all the people took him, saying, Thou shalt surely die.
9 Why hast thou prophesied in the name of the LORD, saying, This house shall
be like Shiloh, and this city shall be desolate without an inhabitant? And
all the people were gathered against Jeremiah in the house of the LORD.
10 When the princes of Judah heard these things, then they came up from the
king's house unto the house of the LORD, and sat down in the entry of the
new gate of the LORD's house.
11 Then spake the priests and the prophets unto the princes and to all the
people, saying, This man is worthy to die; for he hath prophesied against
this city, as ye have heard with your ears.
(Old Testament | Jeremiah 26:8 - 11)
4 Her prophets are light and treacherous persons: her priests have polluted
the sanctuary, they have done violence to the law.
(Old Testament | Zephaniah 3:4)
11 The heads thereof judge for reward, and the priests thereof teach for
hire, and the prophets thereof divine for money: yet will they lean upon the
LORD, and say, Is not the LORD among us? none evil can come upon us.
(Old Testament | Micah 3:11)
Micah, Jeremiah, and Zephaniah were prophets who stood outside of the Church
and were critical of corruption within the Church.
... The President
and Lord's Anointed are two separate offices.
You've got to realize that Art has so filled you with
looney tunes that you've got a row to ***** ahead of you
getting them out of your soul. He has been improvising and
pretending for many years. It's basically a testament to
the power of the human mind to be able to twist anything to
become self-justification.
... Joseph Smith received the keys
to the Melchisedek Priesthood from resurrected Peter, James, and John in
1829.
With one correction: John wasn't resurrected, he was
translated.
Also, James wasn't named James, but that name will do for
now.
... The Church wasn't formed until the following year. So while you could
state this was just the order of things, it still doesn't change the fact
that the Priesthood existed before the Church did.
Not true; the Priesthood has always existed, and so has the
Church.
The Priesthood was taken from the original Church 2000 years. The Church was
then disbanded. Thus it was necessary for both to be restored in a new
dispensation which is what happened through Mormonism.
... Your Church now holds as
much authority as the rest of the sectarian churches.
As much and more!
... Does your President
receive "Thus saith the Lord" revelations
Yes,
Give one "Thus saith the Lord" revelation that Gordon B. Hinckley has
received.
... like Art does.
No.
... The Spirit
testifies Art is a true Prophet.
Remember, there's more than one "Spirit".
There are several known good tests for Prophets. The best
one is found in Matt. 7:15-20 - a true prophet of God will
bring good results. What good results has Art ever brought?
While he's hiding out in Mexico, getting old and cussing at
people on ARM, the real prophet has directed the design,
construction, and dedicated over 100 Temples and something
like 10,000 chapels, sent literally thousands of tons of
relief supplies delivered to disaster areas, trained
hundreds of thousands of leaders, directed the Apostles to
organize many hundreds of stakes and reorganize tens of
thousands of them. Literally millions of people's Temple
work has gotten done that certainly wouldn't have yet been
done without his efforts; he's written numerous books,
urging righteousness and repentance - published by presses
not controlled by the Church mind you. Thousands of people
have come back into the Church and gotten their priesthood
and Temple blessings restored under his personal direction
and approval. And that's just off the top of my head.
I'm not saying helping people in disaster areas is bad but that doesn't mean
they are the true Church. Sectarian churches like the Baptist or Catholics
have all sorts of fancy churches around the country and supply disaster
relief in emergency situations too.
The results cannot lie.
... He is the One Mighty and Strong prophesied
in D&C 85:7.
No, Art's an old burnt-out looney.
You probably would have said the same about John the Baptist who lived in
the wilderness and fed off grasshoppers. You think the Gospel is a
popularity contest but it's not. The Church's increasing popularity with
mainstream society is a sign that they have gone way ward because if they
taught Mormonism properly it would be too unpopular and they would be
rejected and persecuted greatly. BY said when the Church was no longer
persecuted and embraced by the world then Church has gone to hell.
(Find out if Woody is a Mormon or not)
Yes, do that, and tell me if I am. I really want to know.
Mormon was great, and I wouldn't mind being just like him.
If you think about it, what other Prophet has done such a
great thing as he did? Writing a book that been endorsed
by the Lord as a primary tool in the Restoration and
preparation of His people for his Second Coming. You might
cling to the Brother of Jared or Noah or Abraham or Moses
or Peter or Paul, and great they were, but those of us
alive in these times have a perspective at the bottom of
the trench. This time is the critical time in the history
of the earth. What we do here and now, what we decide,
will determine the future of the earth. Sure you can open
your 2/3 sealed portion - during good conditions, what's to
prevent it? The Book of Mormon is pulling its weight under
totally adverse conditions.
Wood
<http://users.sisna.com/wwbrison>
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| User: "John Smith" |
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| Title: Re: Exposing Creationist Bulls*** About Pasteur |
03 Aug 2007 09:19:59 PM |
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Nothing more than two cult followers bellowing about which of their cults is
the "true religion".
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: How I Got the Keys of the Kingdom of God |
16 Jul 2007 01:34:57 PM |
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On Jun 26, 7:21 am, Woody Brison <woody.bri...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jun 8, 12:39 pm, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
I get the impression that Art here is under the delusion that
Scripture originates from his own mouth.
Yeah, he used to be a Mormon but he got tangled up in some
bogus revelation...<snip foolish hate-filled, devil-inspired diatribe>
Wood
Say those things to my face, coward, and you will get the whipping
your corrupt family never gave you, you candy-assed fool. This fool
once said I could not be true because I swat flies! What would such
candy-assed cultural Mormons have said about John the Baptist who wore
skins and ate grasshoppers? To them prophets wear three-pieced suits
and are bankers! This fellow is also a brazen coward, for he has never
confronted me directly but waits until he thinks no one is looking to
raise his head. As to "no such office as Seventy Apostle", this fool
is unaware of doctrine revealed to Joseph Brigham and myself, for
after my hometeacher tried to kill me after receiving two written
revelations, I got down on my knees and asked what authority I had,
whereupon I was picked up and carried by the spirit over to the book
on my shelf: "Discourses of Brigham Young" by John Widtsoe, whereupon
I opened miraculously right to the very paragraph I needed to read:
"He [Brigham Young] stated that the Seventies are ordained Apostles
and when they go forth into the ministry they are sent with power to
build up the Kingdom in all the world and consequently have power to
ordain High Priests and also to ordain and organize a High
Council." (Manuscript History of Brigham Young, Dec. 14, 1845
I leaped and shouted for joy.
I was then commanded to go out and preach to the world, which I have
not ceased to do since that day (Feb, 1979). No one believes, except
Aaron, but what of it? It just shows how wicked and corrupt you are,
that you do not inquire of God for yourselves, but lean on a set of
men and pin your salvation upon the sleeve of another. Every tub must
stand on its on bottom, saith the Lord.
The Lord saw your condition and here is what he prophesied concerning
you:
11 Yea, they have all gone out of the way; they have become
corrupted.
2 Ne 28:12
12 Because of pride, and because of false teachers, and false
doctrine, their churches have become corrupted, and their churches are
lifted up; because of pride they are puffed up.
2 Ne 28:13
13 They rob the poor because of their fine sanctuaries; they rob the
poor because of their fine clothing; and they persecute the meek and
the poor in heart, because in their pride they are puffed up.
2 Ne 28:14
14 They wear stiff necks and high heads; yea, and because of pride,
and wickedness, and abominations, and whoredoms, they have all gone
astray save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ;
nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because
they are taught by the precepts of men.
2 Ne 28:15
15 O the wise, and the learned, and the rich, that are puffed up in
the pride of their hearts, and all those who preach false doctrines,
and all those who commit whoredoms, and pervert the right way of the
Lord, wo, wo, wo be unto them, saith the Lord God Almighty, for they
shall be thrust down to hell!
2 Ne 28:16
16 Wo unto them that turn aside the just for a thing of naught and
revile against that which is good, and say that it is of no worth! For
the day shall come that the Lord God will speedily visit the
inhabitants of the earth; and in that day that they are fully ripe in
iniquity they shall perish.
2 Ne 28:17
17 But behold, if the inhabitants of the earth shall repent of their
wickedness and abominations they shall not be destroyed, saith the
Lord of Hosts.
2 Ne 28:18
18 But behold, that great and abominable church, the ***** of all the
earth, must tumble to the earth, and great must be the fall thereof.
2 Ne 28:19
19 For the kingdom of the devil must shake, and they which belong to
it must needs be stirred up unto repentance, or the devil will grasp
them with his everlasting chains, and they be stirred up to anger, and
perish;
2 Ne 28:20
20 For behold, at that day shall he rage in the hearts of the
children of men, and stir them up to anger against that which is good.
2 Ne 28:21
21 And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal
security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion
prospereth, all is well--and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and
leadeth them away carefully down to hell.
2 Ne 28:22
22 And behold, others he flattereth away, and telleth them there is
no hell; and he saith unto them: I am no devil, for there is none--and
thus he whispereth in their ears, until he grasps them with his awful
chains, from whence there is no deliverance.
2 Ne 28:23
23 Yea, they are grasped with death, and hell; and death, and hell,
and the devil, and all that have been seized therewith must stand
before the throne of God, and be judged according to their works, from
whence they must go into the place prepared for them, even a lake of
fire and brimstone, which is endless torment.
2 Ne 28:24
24 Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!
2 Ne 28:25
25 Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well!
2 Ne 28:26
26 Yea, wo be unto him that hearkeneth unto the precepts of men, and
denieth the power of God, and the gift of the Holy Ghost!
2 Ne 28:27
27 Yea, wo be unto him that saith: We have received, and we need no
more!
2 Ne 28:28
28 And in fine, wo unto all those who tremble, and are angry because
of the truth of God! For behold, he that is built upon the rock
receiveth it with gladness; and he that is built upon a sandy
foundation trembleth lest he shall fall.
2 Ne 28:29
29 Wo be unto him that shall say: We have received the word of God,
and we need no more of the word of God, for we have enough!
2 Ne 28:30
30 For behold, thus saith the Lord God: I will give unto the children
of men line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a
little; and blessed are those who hearken unto my precepts, and lend
an ear unto my counsel, for they shall learn wisdom; for unto him that
receiveth I will give more; and from them that shall say, We have
enough, from them shall be taken away even that which they have.
2 Ne 28:31
31 Cursed is he that putteth his trust in man, or maketh flesh his
arm, or shall hearken unto the precepts of men, save their precepts
shall be given by the power of the Holy Ghost.
2 Ne 28:32
32 Wo be unto the Gentiles, saith the Lord God of Hosts! For
notwithstanding I shall lengthen out mine arm unto them from day to
day, they will deny me; nevertheless, I will be merciful unto them,
saith the Lord God, if they will repent and come unto me; for mine arm
is lengthened out all the day long, saith the Lord God of Hosts.
(When ordaining men to the office of Seventy,) ...Brother Joseph Smith
has come to us many times, saying, "Brethren, you are going to ordain
Seventies. Do not forget to confer the high priesthood upon them.
Ordain each of them to the high priesthood (Melchizedek Priesthood),
and to be one of the Seventy Apostles." That was my language in the
ordination of the Seventies, and that is the way I ordain them now.
(Brigham Young, Des. News, June 6, 1877, p. 274)
So here we have two witnesses, one Brigham Young, the other myself
exposing this liar as the fraud he is, as all cultural Mormons are.
Mark Hacking and Mark Hoffman, cultural Mormons, were exceeding expert
liars, as this fool is.
In February of 1835, the Prophet Joseph Smith organized the First
Quorum of Twelve Apostles and the First Quorum of Seventy Apostles.
These two quorums of Apostles were set apart for the work of the
ministry to the nations of the earth.
On Saturday, the 14th of February, 1835, a two days' convention or
conference was convened, at which, after a week's notice, those
brethren who had accompanied the Prophet to Missouri in the camp were
called together, and it was announced that from their numbers would be
chosen the quorum of the twelve apostles and their assistants in the
work of the foreign ministry of the church, the seventy. (C.H.C.
1:371)
Through the years both the nature and office of the apostolic calling
of the Seventy has become lost or forgotten. The gradual erosion of
this calling has almost abolished it as an active office in the
Church. Yet the Prophet Joseph Smith continually referred to this
office from its inception. He wrote:
This day the Council of the Seventy met to tender an account of
their travels and ministry, since they were ordained to that
Apostleship. (D.H.C. 2:346)
Later when the Kirtland Temple was dedicated, the Prophet Joseph
arose and said:
I then called upon the quorums and congregation of Saints to
acknowledge the Twelve Apostles, who were present, as Prophets, Seers,
Revelators, and special witnesses to all the nations of the earth,
holding the keys of the kingdom, to unlock it, or cause it to be done
among them, and uphold them by their prayers, which they assented to
by rising.
I next called upon the quorums and congregation of Saints to
acknowledge the presidents of Seventies, who act as their
representatives, as Apostles and special witnesses to the nations, to
assist the Twelve in opening the Gospel kingdom among all the people,
and to uphold them by their prayers, which they did by rising. (D.H.C.
2:417-18)
It is interesting to note that at the first organization of the
Seventy, the Prophet Joseph instructed Sidney Rigdon to confer upon
Joseph Young "all the priesthood, powers, blessings, keys, and
authority that they themselves possessed."
In referring to this memorable period the Prophet Joseph gave him
(referring to Joseph Young) the first intimation of his call to this
sacred office by saying: "The Lord has made you President of the
Seventies" and further refers to his ordination in his writing. Prior
to his ordination the Prophet instructed his counselor, Sidney Rigdon,
to confer upon him all the Priesthood, powers, blessings, keys and
authority that they themselves possessed, which was strictly observed.
This was on the 28th day of February 1835, which position of President
of all the Seventies he held until the day of his death. (From
Seventies Minute Book #1, p. 281, Minutes by Robert Campbell,
Historian's Office)
[104] When Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball were ordained Apostles,
they had previously been Elders. They had never been High Priests and
some of the High Priests thought that it would be necessary for them
to be ordained High Priests even after they were ordained to the
Apostleship.
Such a suggestion made Joseph righteously angry. Said he, "My
brethren, with as much as I have taught you, and as many revelations
as have been given on the subject of the priesthood, that you should
ask such a question! It would be an insult to the priesthood of the
Son of God to ordain a man a high priest after he had been ordained an
apostle; for the apostleship holds all the keys of the priesthood upon
the face of the earth, to build up the kingdom of heaven, to sanctify
the people and prepare them to enter into the presence of God the
Father. Now, to say that such a man, holding this priesthood, should
be ordained a high priest is an insult, and I want to hear no more
about it." (Brigham Young, Des. News, June 6, 1877)
The calling and mission of the Seventy Apostles has always been
synonymous with that of the Twelve Apostles. The distinction between
the two councils is almost indiscernible since they are called to the
same field of labor, as ministers of the gospel and witnesses of
Christ. It is for thee reasons they have been called "Apostles."
Notice, on the following page, the similarity between the Apostles
and Seventies in both authority and calling in the revelations of the
Lord:
[105] THE TWELVE
The twelve traveling councilors are called to be the Twelve Apostles,
or special witnesses of the name of Christ in all the world--thus
differing from other officers in the church in the duties of their
calling. (D.&C. 107:23)
And they form a quorum, equal in authority and power to the three
presidents previously mentioned. (D.&C. 107:24)
The Twelve are a Traveling Presiding High Council, to officiate in the
name of the Lord, under the direction of the Presidency of the Church,
agreeable to the instruction of heaven; to build up the church, and
regulate all the affairs of the same in all nations, first unto the
Gentiles and secondly unto the Jews. (D.&C. 107:33)
THE SEVENTY
The Seventy are also called to preach the gospel, and to be especial
witnesses unto the Gentiles and in all the world--thus differing from
other officers in the church in the duties of their calling. (D.&C.
107:25)
And they form a quorum, equal in authority to that of the Twelve
special witnesses of Apostles just named. (D.&C. 107:26)
The Seventy are to act in the name of the Lord, under the direction of
the Twelve or the traveling high council, in building up the church
and regulating all the affairs of the same in all nations, first unto
the Gentiles and then to the Jews. (D.&C. 107:34)
[106] At the reorganization of the Seventies in 1844, Brigham Young
said:
If an Elder wants to go preaching, let him go into the seventies.
You are all apostles to the nations to carry the gospel. (Imp. Era
35:215)
And Amasa Lyman spoke at the dedication of the Seventies Hall in
December 1844:
After speaking of authorities in the church or kingdom of God, he
observed that apostles in the primitive age of Christianity were first
made witnesses to all the nations of the earth. They were afterwards
made judges of that same people. Hence the saying of the Apostle, know
ye not that the saints shall judge the world? That is the generation
or people to whom they were sent as witnesses. (See 1st Cor. 6:2,3)
Indeed they were competent to sit in judgment upon them, having had an
experimental knowledge of their course of conduct and barbarous
treatment towards the servants of God that were sent to establish
peace among them. Many of whom they did not only reject, but tortured
and slew them in a cruel manner. This was the fate of the Prophets and
Apostles who vainly attempted to restore them from their wickedness,
assuring them, to use the language of the scripture: As you mete out
to others, so shall be it measured to you again. (Times & Seasons,
Vol. 6, p. 795-796)
In 1845 at the Nauvoo Temple, questions again arose concerning the
authority of the Seventy.
A conversation then ensued on the distinctions of office or power
between a President of the Seventies and a member of the High [107]
Council or a High Priest. It arose in consequence of some of the High
Council having been washed and anointed by some of the Presidents of
the Seventy and inasmuch as there had been some considerable
difference in the views of the Brethren in regard to the difference of
authority between the High Council and the Seventies, President Young
concluded it would be wisdom to have the subject understood at this
early stage of business, so as to prevent any feelings or disputes
arising on the subject hereafter.
He stated that the Seventies are ordained Apostles and when they go
forth into the ministry they are sent with power to build up the
Kingdom in all the world and consequently have power to ordain High
Priests and also to ordain and organize a High Council.
Some of the High Priests have been ready to quarrel on the subject
supposing that they had power and authority above the Seventies and
some in their zeal for power have abused and trampled on the feelings
of some of the Seventies. (History of Brigham Young Manuscript,
December 14, 1845.)
Years later President Brigham Young continued to support these views
by adding:
What ordination should a man receive to possess all the keys and
powers of the Holy Priesthood that were delivered to the sons of Adam?
He should be ordained an Apostle of Jesus Christ.... You read in the
revelation alluded to that when the Twelve were called and ordained,
they possessed the same power and authority as the three First
Presidents; and in reading further you find that there must needs be
appendages and helps growing out of this Priesthood. The Seventies
possess the same [108] power and authority; they hold the keys of
establishing, building up, regulating, ordaining, and setting in order
the kingdom of God in all its perfections upon the earth. We have a
quorum of High Priests, and there are a great many of them. They are a
local body--they tarry at home; but the Seventies travel and preach;
so also do the High Priests when they are called upon. They possess
precisely the same Priesthood that the Seventies, and the Twelve and
the First Presidency possess; but are they ordained to officiate in
all the authority, powers, and keys of this Priesthood, No, they are
not; still they are High Priests of God: and if they magnify their
Priesthood, they will receive at some time all the authority and power
that it is possible for man to receive. (Brigham Young, J.D. 9:87-88)
On January 25, 1846, Parley P. Pratt conversed with some brethren in
the Celestial Room of the Temple on the subject of authority and
Priesthood. He gave the following counsel:
He said that in case the quorum of the Twelve should by any means
become disorganized, that the Seventies held the jurisdiction and
authority of Presidency of the Church in all the world wherever it
might be found. That the High Priest's duty would be the same as it is
now; they have to attend to their affairs, but the authority of
Presidency over the whole Church belonged to the Seventies; and if all
the Seventies were killed off except one Seventy, that Seventy would
not only possess the right but would be in duty bound to stand in
their place as the First Presidency of the Church. He said that Joseph
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