| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"L. Raymond" |
| Date: |
03 Oct 2006 06:17:15 PM |
| Object: |
Fahrenheit 451 vs. the Bible |
In a Conroe, just north of Houston, a parent has filed a complaint
against Fahrenheit 451 to have it removed from his 15 year old
daughter's school. The daughter was just on the news and was asked why
she was upset by the book. "They burned the Bible." The reporter
pointed out that a lot of other books were burned, too. The student
said, "Yeah, but they took God's name in vain."
The news showed some excerpts from the father's official complaint,
and it listed "cigarettes" and "talking about our firemen", presumably
disrespectfully. He dutifully gave page numbers for these and for all
the vile cussing and blasphemy that went on.
Now the good news. The other students at this school have started a
petition drive in support of the book and have plans for a peaceful
protest on Friday, when they'll wear shirts to express their opinions.
I hope this is yet another little step towards making it clear to
society at large that the fundies really are nuts and absolutely can't
be humored in all their whims.
--
L. Raymond
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Fahrenheit 451 vs. the Bible |
05 Oct 2006 12:32:45 AM |
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In article <CUQUg.1566$NE6.1202@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>,
cactus <bm1@nonespam.com> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <10mbzoxqmg8t3$.10jry0oi2b5qd.dlg@40tude.net>,
"L. Raymond" <badaddress@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
In a Conroe, just north of Houston, a parent has filed a complaint
against Fahrenheit 451 to have it removed from his 15 year old
daughter's school. The daughter was just on the news and was asked why
she was upset by the book. "They burned the Bible." The reporter
pointed out that a lot of other books were burned, too. The student
said, "Yeah, but they took God's name in vain."
The news showed some excerpts from the father's official complaint,
and it listed "cigarettes" and "talking about our firemen", presumably
disrespectfully. He dutifully gave page numbers for these and for all
the vile cussing and blasphemy that went on.
Now the good news. The other students at this school have started a
petition drive in support of the book and have plans for a peaceful
protest on Friday, when they'll wear shirts to express their opinions.
I hope this is yet another little step towards making it clear to
society at large that the fundies really are nuts and absolutely can't
be humored in all their whims.
So when are they going to burn Bradbury's books? I think that there is
more than just a little touch of irony here.
I recall how the John Birch Society denounced the Beatles for their song
"Back in the USSR" because they said it promoted Communism.
No different really. People conflate literature and reality all the time.
I remember the Birchers. They denounced just about everything. And if
you didn't agree with them you were a card carrying Communist or a
'fellow traveller'.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Fahrenheit 451 vs. the Bible |
08 Oct 2006 11:47:36 AM |
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On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 16:00:34 GMT, cactus <bm1@nonespam.com> wrote in
alt.atheism
johac wrote:
In article <10mbzoxqmg8t3$.10jry0oi2b5qd.dlg@40tude.net>,
"L. Raymond" <badaddress@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
In a Conroe, just north of Houston, a parent has filed a complaint
against Fahrenheit 451 to have it removed from his 15 year old
daughter's school. The daughter was just on the news and was asked why
she was upset by the book. "They burned the Bible." The reporter
pointed out that a lot of other books were burned, too. The student
said, "Yeah, but they took God's name in vain."
The news showed some excerpts from the father's official complaint,
and it listed "cigarettes" and "talking about our firemen", presumably
disrespectfully. He dutifully gave page numbers for these and for all
the vile cussing and blasphemy that went on.
Now the good news. The other students at this school have started a
petition drive in support of the book and have plans for a peaceful
protest on Friday, when they'll wear shirts to express their opinions.
I hope this is yet another little step towards making it clear to
society at large that the fundies really are nuts and absolutely can't
be humored in all their whims.
So when are they going to burn Bradbury's books? I think that there is
more than just a little touch of irony here.
I recall how the John Birch Society denounced the Beatles for their song
"Back in the USSR" because they said it promoted Communism.
No different really. People conflate literature and reality all the time.
Like the Bible and reality.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
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| User: "Tim McGaughy" |
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| Title: Re: Fahrenheit 451 vs. the Bible |
04 Oct 2006 09:46:54 PM |
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L. Raymond wrote:
In a Conroe,
I grew up in Conroe. Why am I not surprised?
just north of Houston, a parent has filed a complaint
against Fahrenheit 451 to have it removed from his 15 year old
daughter's school. The daughter was just on the news and was asked why
she was upset by the book. "They burned the Bible." The reporter
pointed out that a lot of other books were burned, too. The student
said, "Yeah, but they took God's name in vain."
What saddens me most is that her low intelligence and lack of reading
skills prevented her from understanding the Fucking Point Of The Book!!!
But that's Conroe.
I remember a remark I once heard in biology class more than 20 years ago
to the effect that Planet of the Apes was a good example of why we
should never make it possible for apes to talk. Nice to see that nothing
much has changed.
Now the good news. The other students at this school have started a
petition drive in support of the book and have plans for a peaceful
protest on Friday, when they'll wear shirts to express their opinions.
I hope this is yet another little step towards making it clear to
society at large that the fundies really are nuts and absolutely can't
be humored in all their whims.
Now that IS good news.
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| User: "L. Raymond" |
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| Title: Re: Fahrenheit 451 vs. the Bible |
05 Oct 2006 02:33:21 AM |
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Tim McGaughy wrote:
L. Raymond wrote:
just north of Houston, a parent has filed a complaint
against Fahrenheit 451 to have it removed from his 15 year old
daughter's school. The daughter was just on the news and was asked why
she was upset by the book. "They burned the Bible." The reporter
pointed out that a lot of other books were burned, too. The student
said, "Yeah, but they took God's name in vain."
What saddens me most is that her low intelligence and lack of reading
skills prevented her from understanding the Fucking Point Of The Book!!!
You know what really bugs me? I admit it's been a while since I've
read it through, but the only bible I remember was the one Montag
started ripping up in order to force Faber to help him, which he left
with Faber. He turned in a different book to be burned the next day. So
the stupid girl's complaint isn't even valid since the bible was shown
to have the power to convince Faber to help Montag.
I remember a remark I once heard in biology class more than 20 years ago
to the effect that Planet of the Apes was a good example of why we
should never make it possible for apes to talk. Nice to see that nothing
much has changed.
Who said that? And please don't say it was the teacher.
--
L. Raymond
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| User: "Tim McGaughy" |
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| Title: Re: Fahrenheit 451 vs. the Bible |
07 Oct 2006 10:08:36 AM |
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L. Raymond wrote:
I remember a remark I once heard in biology class more than 20 years ago
to the effect that Planet of the Apes was a good example of why we
should never make it possible for apes to talk. Nice to see that nothing
much has changed.
Who said that? And please don't say it was the teacher.
No, it was a fellow student.
I'm sure she's leading a happy live in her trailer park.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Fahrenheit 451 vs. the Bible |
05 Oct 2006 01:15:48 AM |
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L. Raymond wrote:
In a Conroe, just north of Houston, a parent has filed a complaint
against Fahrenheit 451 to have it removed from his 15 year old
daughter's school. The daughter was just on the news and was asked why
she was upset by the book. "They burned the Bible." The reporter
pointed out that a lot of other books were burned, too. The student
said, "Yeah, but they took God's name in vain."
The news showed some excerpts from the father's official complaint,
and it listed "cigarettes" and "talking about our firemen", presumably
disrespectfully. He dutifully gave page numbers for these and for all
the vile cussing and blasphemy that went on.
Now the good news. The other students at this school have started a
petition drive in support of the book and have plans for a peaceful
protest on Friday, when they'll wear shirts to express their opinions.
I hope this is yet another little step towards making it clear to
society at large that the fundies really are nuts and absolutely can't
be humored in all their whims.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?B58C216ED
"It's just all kinds of filth," said Alton Verm, adding that he had not
read 'Fahrenheit 451.'
I wonder if he's read *any* book since he left high school. The "Lehuft
Buh-hine" crap doesn't count, since it's written for people at his
slight level of literacy.
There are times when I think I'm going to explode if one more ignorant
backwoods cretin opens their stupid mouth. No wonder the US is in so
much trouble. How do you fix a nation, when the problem is its
citizens? Every time an attempt is made to break the cycle of
ignorance, they start shouting "..my religion/ethnicity/tastes are
being insulted. Sometimes I really do think we *are* just a `third
world nation with nukes'.
-Panama Floyd, Atl.
aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA!
EAC Martian Commander
Plonked by Kadaitcha Man, Sep 06
"..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."
-Mark Twain
Religious societies are *less* moral than secular ones:
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
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| User: "L. Raymond" |
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| Title: Re: Fahrenheit 451 vs. the Bible |
05 Oct 2006 02:52:32 AM |
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wrote:
I wonder if he's read *any* book since he left high school. The "Lehuft
Buh-hine" crap doesn't count, since it's written for people at his
slight level of literacy.
"Lehuft Buh-hine"? It took me a while to interpret that. He probably
hasn't read it since he heard it's all about the coming of Satan and
that makes it a Bad Book.
There are times when I think I'm going to explode if one more ignorant
backwoods cretin opens their stupid mouth. No wonder the US is in so
much trouble. How do you fix a nation, when the problem is its
citizens? Every time an attempt is made to break the cycle of
ignorance, they start shouting "..my religion/ethnicity/tastes are
being insulted. Sometimes I really do think we *are* just a 'third
world nation with nukes'.
What's interesting is that these exact same people, just a few years
ago, were insulting and sneering at liberals (their catch-all word for
People Who Are Different) for complaining about derogatory depictions of
minorities and saying that they weren't going to remove any book just
because it offended some small bunch of cry babies.
--
L. Raymond
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Fahrenheit 451 vs. the Bible |
06 Oct 2006 12:05:55 AM |
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L. Raymond wrote:
panamfloyd@hotmail.com wrote:
I wonder if he's read *any* book since he left high school. The "Lehuft
Buh-hine" crap doesn't count, since it's written for people at his
slight level of literacy.
"Lehuft Buh-hine"? It took me a while to interpret that. He probably
hasn't read it since he heard it's all about the coming of Satan and
that makes it a Bad Book.
Southern Rednecks *love* the Left Behind books. It's the gore fantasies
of their dreams, where Ninja Jesus comes to render asunder everyone
who's ever disagreed with them over a parking spot. Joe Bagent
describes it well:
http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2005/12/what_the_left_b.html
I kid you not, I have walked into the homes of some people down
here-and the only books in the house were the bible, the Left Behind
series, and religiously themed self-help books ("The Purpose Driven
Life" & similar tripe).
There are times when I think I'm going to explode if one more ignorant
backwoods cretin opens their stupid mouth. No wonder the US is in so
much trouble. How do you fix a nation, when the problem is its
citizens? Every time an attempt is made to break the cycle of
ignorance, they start shouting "..my religion/ethnicity/tastes are
being insulted. Sometimes I really do think we *are* just a 'third
world nation with nukes'.
What's interesting is that these exact same people, just a few years
ago, were insulting and sneering at liberals (their catch-all word for
People Who Are Different) for complaining about derogatory depictions of
minorities and saying that they weren't going to remove any book just
because it offended some small bunch of cry babies.
Yes, I had forgotten that! Duh ACLU is de debbil cuz' dey won' let me
say "gook" anymore!
<sigh>
-Panama Floyd, Atl.
aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA!
EAC Martian Commander
Plonked by Kadaitcha Man, Sep 06
"..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."
-Mark Twain
Religious societies are *less* moral than secular ones:
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
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| User: "L. Raymond" |
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| Title: Re: Fahrenheit 451 vs. the Bible |
06 Oct 2006 09:37:13 AM |
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wrote:
Southern Rednecks *love* the Left Behind books. It's the gore fantasies
of their dreams, where Ninja Jesus comes to render asunder everyone
who's ever disagreed with them over a parking spot. Joe Bagent
describes it well:
http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2005/12/what_the_left_b.html
His descriptions of the second coming are just nasty. I can't imagine
what the books themselves are like.
This paragraph really stands out:
"Whatever the case, tens of millions of American fundamentalists,
despite their claims otherwise, read and absorb the all-time best
selling Left Behind book series as prophesy and fact. How could they
possibly not after being conditioned all their lives to accept the End
Times as the ultimate reality? We are talking about a group of Americans
20% of whose children graduate from high school identifying H2O as a
cable channel. Children who, like their parents and grandparents, come
from that roughly half of all Americans who can approximately read, but
are dysfunctionally literate to the extent they cannot grasp any textual
abstraction or overall thematic content."
There is a streak of anti-intellectualism through most of human
history, and it's really manifest here in the US. Widespread literacy,
clear thinking and the ability to learn on one's own would do
incalculable damage to religion, which is, of course, why the fundies
are so desperate to get their kids out of schools, and to dumb down the
school in order to affect the children still there.
I kid you not, I have walked into the homes of some people down
here-and the only books in the house were the bible, the Left Behind
series, and religiously themed self-help books ("The Purpose Driven
Life" & similar tripe).
I have "The Purpose Driven Life". In fact, I have a shelf set aside
for nothing but what I call my "know thy enemy" books. It includes
LaHaye & Noebel, Hannity, Coulter and a slew of fundy writings from the
50's through last week. Those are the books I read if I need to be
reminded what sort of hatred and ignorance we're up against.
--
L. Raymond
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Fahrenheit 451 vs. the Bible |
08 Oct 2006 12:55:53 PM |
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On 5 Oct 2006 22:05:55 -0700, wrote in
alt.atheism
L. Raymond wrote:
wrote:
I wonder if he's read *any* book since he left high school. The "Lehuft
Buh-hine" crap doesn't count, since it's written for people at his
slight level of literacy.
"Lehuft Buh-hine"? It took me a while to interpret that. He probably
hasn't read it since he heard it's all about the coming of Satan and
that makes it a Bad Book.
Southern Rednecks *love* the Left Behind books. It's the gore fantasies
of their dreams, where Ninja Jesus comes to render asunder everyone
who's ever disagreed with them over a parking spot. Joe Bagent
describes it well:
http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2005/12/what_the_left_b.html
December 19, 2005
What the 'Left Behind' Series Really Means
A ***** That Sitteth on Many Waters
"Jesus merely raised one hand a few inches and a yawning chasm
opened in the earth, stretching far and wide enough to swallow all of
them. They tumbled in, howling and screeching, but their wailing was
soon quashed and all was silent when the earth closed itself again."
-- From Glorious Appearing by Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins
"The best thing about the Left Behind books is the way the
non-Christians get their guts pulled out by God."
-- 15-year old fundamentalist fan of the Left Behind series
That is the sophisticated language and appeal of America’s all-time best
selling adult novels celebrating the ethnic cleansing of non-Christians
at the hands of Christ. If a Muslim were to write an Islamic version of
the last book in the Left Behind series, Glorious Appearing, and publish
it across the Middle East, Americans would go beserk. Yet tens of
millions of Christians eagerly await and celebrate an End Time when
everyone who disagrees with them will be murdered in ways that make
Islamic beheading look like a bridal shower. Jesus -- who apparently has
a much nastier streak than we have been led to believe -- merely speaks
and "the bodies of the enemy are ripped wide open down the middle." In
the book Christians have to drive carefully to avoid "hitting splayed
and filleted corpses of men and women and horses" Even as the riders’
tongues are melting in their mouths and they are being wide open gutted
by God’s own hand, the poor damned horses are getting the same
treatment. Sort of a divinely inspired version of "***** you and the
horse you rode in on."
This may be some of the bloodiest hate fiction ever published, but it is
also what tens of millions of Americans believe is God’s will. It is
approximately what everyone in the congregation sitting around me last
Sunday at my brother’s church believes. Or some version of it. How can
anyone acquire and hold such notions? Answer: The same way you got yours
and I got mine. Conditioning. From family and school and society, but
from within a different American caste than the one in which you were
raised. And from things stamped deep in childhood -- such as coming home
terrified to an empty house.
One September day when I was in the third grade I got off the school bus
and walked up the red dust powdered lane to my house only to find no one
there. The smudgy white front door of the old frame house stood open. My
footsteps on the unpainted gray porch creaked in the fall stillness.
With increasing panic, I went through every room, and then ran around
the outside crying and sobbing in the grip of the most horrific
loneliness and terror. I believed with all my heart that The Rapture had
come and that all my family had been taken up to heaven leaving me alone
on earth to face God’s terrible wrath. As it turned out they were at the
neighbor’s house scarcely 300 yards down the road, and returned in a few
minutes. But it took me hours to calm down. I dreamed about it for years
afterward.
Since then I have spoken to others raised in fundamentalist families who
had the same childhood experience of coming home and thinking everyone
had been "raptured up." The Rapture -- the time when God takes up all
saved Christians before he lets loose slaughter, pestilence and torture
upon the earth -- is very real to people in whom its glorious and grisly
promise was instilled and cultivated from birth. Even those who escape
fundamentalism agree its marks are permanent. We may no longer believe
in being raptured up, but the grim fundamentalist architecture of the
soul stands in the background of our days. There is an apocalyptic
starkness that remains somewhere inside us, one that tinges all of our
feelings and thoughts of higher matters. Especially about death, oh
beautiful and terrible death, for naked eternity is more real to us than
to you secular humanists. I get mail from hundreds of folks like me, the
different ones who fled and became lawyers and teachers and therapists
and car mechanics, dope dealers and stockbrokers and waitresses. And
every one of them has felt that thing we understand between us, that
skulls piled clear to heaven redemption through absolute self
worthlessness and you ain’t ***** in the eyes of God so go bleed to death
in some dark corner stab in the heart at those very moments when we
should have been most proud of ourselves. Self-hate. That thing that
makes us sabotage our own inner happiness when we are most free and
operating as self-realizing individuals. This kind of Christianity is a
black thing. It is a blood religion, that willingly gives up sons to
America’s campaigns in the Holy Land, hoping they will bring on the
much-anticipated war between good and evil in the Middle East that will
hasten the End Times. Bring Jesus back to Earth.
Whatever the case, tens of millions of American fundamentalists, despite
their claims otherwise, read and absorb the all-time best selling Left
Behind book series as prophesy and fact. How could they possibly not
after being conditioned all their lives to accept the End Times as the
ultimate reality? We are talking about a group of Americans 20% of whose
children graduate from high school identifying H2O as a cable channel.
Children who, like their parents and grandparents, come from that
roughly half of all Americans who can approximately read, but are
dysfunctionally literate to the extent they cannot grasp any textual
abstraction or overall thematic content.
Most of my family and their church friends (mainly the women) have read
at least some of the Left Behind series and if pressed they will claim
they understand that it is fiction. But anyone who has heard fundies
around the kitchen table discussing the books knows the claim is pure
*****. "Well, they do get an awful lot of stuff exactly right," they
admit. Beyond that, most fundamentalists delight in seeing their beliefs
as "persecuted Christians" become best sellers "under the guise of
fiction," as the Pentecostal assistant who used to work with me put it.
"They show the triumph of the righteous over those who persecute us for
our faith in God." Fer cryin out loud, Christianity is scarcely a
persecuted belief system in this country, or in need of a guise to
protect itself. Year after year some 60% of Americans surveyed say they
believe the Book of Revelations will come true and about 40% believe it
will come true in their lifetimes. This from the 50% of Americans who,
according to statistics, seldom if ever buy a book.
Fetishizing of the End Times as a spectacular gore-fest visited upon on
the unbelievers is nothing new. But the sheer number of people gleefully
enjoying the spectacle of their own blackest magical thinking made
manifest by mass media is new. Or at least the media aspect is new. It
reinforces the major appeal of these beliefs, the appeal being (to
restate the obvious) that they get to pass judgment on everyone who
disagrees with them, and then watch God kick the living snot out of
them. It doesn’t get any better than that.
All my life I have seen these people and there are no more or less of
them proportionately than before. It is simply that, A) they have built
their own massive media, and B) educated middle class folks are noticing
them now because they vote and a major political party is willing to
violate the church-state boundary to get their votes. They have always
been out here and always in about the same percentages. Think about
that. It took me a while to accept it too. But George W. Bush learned
the significance of this while campaigning for his daddy back when he
was supposed to be at his National Guard meetings. Part of his job was
to bring in the fundie Christian vote for Poppy. Come George’s turn to
play poker for the presidency in that quadrennial rich man’s game we
call elections, Sparky knew what cards to play. The effete John Kerry
had not a clue. Still doesn’t. Neither did you. Right? Don’t feel bad. I
even knew the great unwashed tribes of the faithful were out here, wrote
spooky and panicked articles about it before the elections and still
underestimated the capability of the death obsessed Christian right.
Lookie here. If you think I’m overcounting, think one more time about
those Left Behind books that have sold over 65 million copies at this
writing. Sold to people who do not even like or buy books. Gore Vidal
and Susan Sontag never wrote anything that sold 65 million. That
lead-footed prose and numbing predictability that Jerry Jenkins and Tim
LaHaye grind out in the Left Behind series might not even be called
writing. But whatever it is, at least 65 million folks that our nation
failed to educate find deep meaning and solace in it. LaHaye has also
sold 120 million non-fiction books, which makes him the most successful
Christian writer since the Bible.
Sales figures aside, it is entirely possible that the Left Behind series
is as important in our time and cultural context as was, say, Harriet
Beecher’s Stowe’s Uncle Tom’s Cabin in its time, wherein Lincoln called
it "the little book that started the big war." The truth is that LaHaye
is among the most influential religious writers America ever produced
and is the most powerful fundamentalist in America today. He is the
founder and first president of the eerily secretive Council for National
Policy, which brings together leading evangelicals and other
conservatives with right-wing billionaires willing to pay for a
conservative religious revolution. He is far more influential than Billy
Graham or Pat Robertson and was the man who inspired Jerry Falwell to
launch the Moral Majority. He gave millions of dollars to Falwell's
Liberty University. He’s the man without whom Ronald Reagan would never
have become governor of California and the man who grilled George W.
Bush, then wiped the cocaine off George’s nose and gave him the official
Christian fundie stamp of approval. He created the American Coalition
for Traditional Values that has mobilized evangelical voters, putting
neo-conservative wackjobs into political offices across the nation. In
short, he is the Godfather of Soul, fundie style. When the man lays it
down, his peeps doo dey duty.
Scratch LaHaye and you’ll find an honest-to-god surviving John Bircher.
In the 1960s when LaHaye was a young up-and-coming Baptist preacher
fresh out of Bob Jones University, he lectured on behalf of Republican
Robert Welch’s John Birch Society. We are talking about a man who
believed Dwight Eisenhower was an agent of the Communist Party taking
orders from his brother, Milt Eisenhower. Along the way LaHaye extended
his paranoid list of villains to include secular humanists who "are
Satan’s agents hiding behind the Constitution." And the only way to
destroy them is to destroy their cover.
I have asked preachers about the Left Behind books. They all claim to
have reservations about them. Fundie preachers are snarky about any
beliefs that do not precisely mirror their own, and no two ever agree
completely. They publicly find fault with the apocalyptic Left Behind
books even as they privately enjoy the books’ popularity. Most say the
series overestimates the number of people going to heaven. Which
figures, given that their stock and trade is the divine exclusivity of a
club called "The Saved." No sense in ruining the brand by franchising it
too cheaply.
Same goes for television as for the Christian pop-lit. Fundamentalists
delighted in the NBC series Revelations. Admittedly it was a *****
job from network people who had not the slightest understanding of the
subject, but could smell more money the closer they got to it. They were
right. Xian fundies sucked it up. Coolly as if butter wouldn’t melt in
their mouths, the fundies I know denied they enjoyed Revelations at all
because the producers "got some things wrong," (as if it were possible
to be wrong regarding dire predictions made centuries ago by
superstitious mystic fanatics about something that never came to pass.)
They say the main thing wrong was having Christ return as a little
child. Most hardcore fundies preferred their vision of a Rambo Jesus
arriving to beat the ***** out of everybody who ever disagreed with Him
or them -- sinners’ eyeballs turning to putrid jelly, blood flowing
everywhere, etc. (In Revelations Jesus arrives on horseback wearing a
blood soaked robe.)
These media products are more than harmless American Christian kitsch
culture or just more American religious swill. Swill it may be, but it
is also dangerous propaganda and the writers know damned well that
propaganda value. Just as the propaganda value of associating Jewish
people with rats in Nazi Germany helped the German populace accept
persecution of the Jews, the Left Behind books foster a morality that
excuses horrors done to "non-believers." Forget about sanity and reason.
Christian fundamentalist media promotes a hermetic worldview cut off
from reason. From the standpoint of those who consume such media
messages, it is not so much propaganda as it is an abundant offering so
complete as to be a parallel bizzaro world of its own. It gives answers
to questions not even asked.
It is a world in which the Secretary General of the United Nations is
the anti-Christ (Left Behind) and the "Clinton Crime Family" deals in
cocaine and is linked to the Gambino family (Joshua Project, and other
sources.) It is one in which abortion doctors are microwaving and eating
fetuses according to testimony given by anti-abortionists before a
Kansas House subcommittee (WorldNetDaily, of course) and where crowds of
good folks get teary-eyed as Rev. Pat Evans, of the NASCAR "Racing for
Jesus Ministries’ rumbles onto the track. Evangelical NASCAR? Yup. What
ABC called America’s "unapologetically evangelical sport." I can see you
dear reader, running and holding your head and screaming at the thought.
Yet it’s true. At Bristol and Talladega the earth is shaking for
Jaaaayzus! Now that we have Evangelical NASCAR, what, I ask you, can
ever go wrong?
"To be saved is to fall into the ludicrous and satanic flippancy of
false piety, kitsch."
-- Trappist monk Thomas Merton
Forty years later Merton is still right. Like most American liberals,
not to mention all of Europe and the rest of the world, I learned
through education to write the U.S. born-again literature off as kitsch
religion, merely bad theology in an unholy marriage to bad writing.
Another product of the American Jesus industry. If we liberals can name
it, assign it to some appropriately vulgar and sentimental corner of our
degraded culture, and then remain tolerant of it, then we feel have
dealt with the damned thing. After all, it is the comparative worldview
of the teeming red state masses. But there is certain arrogance in such
pop cultural erudition and thin worldliness, isn’t there? In itself, our
attitude is too flip.
It took coming home to a born again red state to realize how cultural
documents such as Left Behind or the movies Revelations and Passion of
the Christ do great harm, and at a critical time when we are facing
economic upheaval, fighting illegal wars and suffering deep religious
antipathies across the planet. "Aw," my liberal New York and West Coast
friends tell me, "That is overstating the case. The Democrats will
eventually be back in power." We cannot afford to wait a few more years
and see. No matter if the Dems actually can be elected back into
powerlessness, they will have needed at least some of these people’s
votes to get there. Next election we will find out if it is possible to
be elected without the fundamentalist Christians. So far the Democratic
political elite, who only take their thumb out of their ***** to change
thumbs, has not been able to stop the religious right’s relentless push.
And I think it is because, at least from where I sit right now, the
democratic establishment has not offered, much less delivered, and is
incapable of delivering what my people really need -- decent educations
so they will not be prey to three thousand year old superstitions. The
left has yet to demand for all Americans a genuine absolutely free
education, an opportunity to enjoy a life of the mind, or to even know
such a thing exists. Hell, you got yours and I got mine, right? So
screw’em. We progressives have failed. We were always and still are our
brother's keeper and now the throw-away Americans, the ugly little
***** at the car wash and the truck driver and the guy who delivers
the bottled water to our offices are coming to get our assess, even
though they aren’t quite sure why. My Random House editor told me not to
get on a soapbox about this, but I cannot help it. (Sorry, Rachel)
I am not trying to be smart-assed, but to indicate the fear of what is
unfolding around me as a person living in the belly of the beast. The
reality gap between fundamentalist and urban liberals is unfathomable.
Liberal observers watching from a safe distance in New York or San
Francisco conclude it is pure stupidity that caused millions of
Americans to continue support of the Bush junta in the face of
overwhelming evidence of lies, deceit and contempt for the constitution,
even as the fat cats raided their retirements and picked their pockets
at every turn. Others think it is just plain meanness that attracted
them to Bush. And so do I sometimes, because stupidity (the Jesus
stockcar entries should be proof enough) and meanness are surely part of
the attraction to a certain type of conservative -- that poisonous toad
Karl Rove being their chief deity of meanness for meanness sake.
There remains one nagging problem. Despite their masochistic voting
patterns, fundamentalists are very ordinary and normal Americans. People
who often as not go out of their way to help others and endorse most
American values. So how do we reconcile the warmth and good nature of
these hardworking citizens with the repressive politics, intolerance,
nationalism and warmaking they support? Why do such ordinary people do
such awful things? The Germans have been wrestling with that one for 60
years, and sixty more years from now they still will have not solved the
riddle in any meaningful way for the rest of the world. Barring
ecological and cultural collapse, historians will say America suffered
under the same sort of extraordinary delusion, a national hallucination
of God and empire and exceptionalism. The thing about a hallucination --
and take it from a person who has enjoyed many fine ones on various
chemicals and herbs -- is that it is a convincing reality in its time.
Try talking to a fundamentalist about politics and God for an hour. You
will see the spell that holds sway. Let us be thankful for pro sports or
we would have nothing whatsoever to talk about on those rare occasions
when a fundamentalist and a liberal ever bother to speak to one another.
Allow me to get down to the nub of this and say what urban liberals
cannot allow themselves to say out loud: "Christian majority or not, the
readers of such apocalyptic books as the Left Behind series are some
pretty damned dumb motherfuckers caught up in their own black,
vindictive fantasy." There. I said it for you. Let us proceed.
Beyond that, there is a more mundane aspect of the success of the Left
Behind books. It is fair to say that Left Behind readers are happy to
discover a pop-lit phenomenon that they can participate in at all --
popular literature that doesn’t conflict with their insulated and armor
plated world view. At last they have something else to read besides
Guideposts and Readers Digest, both of which pass as highbrow lit in
most fundamentalist households. Aw come on. You know it is the truth the
same as I do. If you go into the homes of most fundamentalists, you will
not find many books at all, much less books that contain real ideas. Now
they have the Left Behind series, the huge sales of which, as they see
it, validate their beliefs. I know I am painting with a mighty wide
brush, but so what? It’s by and large true. Considering that by no means
do all fundamentalists believe in The Rapture, and that the whole
Rapture thing is a cult within a larger cult, the popularity of the Left
Behind series says something about the sheer scale of apocalyptic
Christianity in the American heartland today. Do the readers believe the
books? Again, I would say most do. Here are a couple of typical reader
testimonials for the books:
"This series of books is the best I have ever read. I have looked
long and hard to find a resource that put scripture into easy to read,
and understand format. Many people I know get frustrated when they try
to read scripture because they have trouble understanding the language.
.... Now after reading these books I have a better understanding of where
I stand at this moment."
"I started reading the Left Behind series in 2000 with the first
book in paperback. ... I read it and was impressed with how well written
it was and have read or own every book. In impact, it has gotten me
closer to God than where I was before. ... I grew up in church, but was
always afraid of what was supposed to happen at the end times. I was
afraid of the Book of Revelation, because the thought of all of the evil
that had to be fought terrified me. While reading the Left Behind
series, I followed along with my Bible, and I am so excited that I am
understanding and learning more than I ever have. I am no longer afraid
of the fight against evil, because I know that I am on the side of the
greatest and most powerful force. Thank you for getting me started on
this path of learning."
These people may not be your neighbors or friends, but they are ordinary
and typical Americans. If you the reader are a college educated middle
class person, then folks like those above outnumber you roughly three to
one in this country. If that is not reason enough to drink, then I don’t
know what is. No matter what happens, in the next election, we are going
to be dealing for a long time to come with millions of voters who think
Left Behind is great literature, spiritual guidance and a political
primer all in one. Do we really think that cartload of bloated hacks
called the Democratic Party knows what to do about this? Do you really
think Howard Dean has a clue about how to deal with this entire class of
Americans. Hardly. And besides, even if the Dems can get elected again
and restored to the impotency they have come to represent, they will
have needed these people’s votes to get there. Or they simply will not
get there. So let’s not expect the Democratic political elite to save us
from watching the fundie takeover attempts escalate in the future (In
which case, assuming my book makes some real dough, I will be watching
from abroad, thank you.) Essentially it comes down to the fact that a
very large portion of Americans are crazier than shithouse rats and are
being led by a gang of pathological misfits, most of whom are preachers
and politicians. We are not talking about simple religious faith here.
There is a world of difference between having religious faith and being
a born-again zealot who believes in his heart that he is thumping
Darwinian demons out of classrooms and that Ted Kennedy is the
anti-Christ. Trading down to the Democratic party of the pussies really
will not save us. It will just buy a little time. But we have whipped
the hell out of this dead horse before, haven’t we? Forgive me.
Meanwhile, we are left to contemplate communication with these folks,
people whose leaders deliver unfathomable pronouncements such as the
following one regarding family finances and the national economy from a
Christian radio broadcast.
The mystery of the harlot of Jerusalem is solved, people! Praise the
Lord! Deuteronomy 15:6 says plain as the nose on your face that "For the
LORD thy God blesseth thee, as he promised thee: and thou shalt lend
unto many nations, but thou shalt not borrow; and thou shalt reign over
many nations, but they shall not reign over thee. Therefore, the harlot
is NOT the gentile nations! "The harlot controls and rules over the
gentile nations, sitting on them." Rev 17:1. And there came one of the
seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto
me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great *****
that sitteth upon many waters: Rev 17:15. And he saith unto me, The
waters which thou sawest, where the ***** sitteth, are peoples, and
multitudes, and nations, and tongues. NOW IS THAT NOT PROOF ENOUGH?
Get that?
Me neither.
But what the hell. It makes sense to millions of voting Americans. So do
I hear a great big Amen out there?
AMEN!
I get reminders of fundamentalism’s dark magical thinking every day. And
it is always the little unexpected ones that slap me hardest with the
reality that these people are in the grip of their mass delusion 24
hours a day. A couple of weeks ago I loaned my brother my old truck
until he could get his engine rebuilt. A week later he retuned it with
much sincere thanks and a smile. On the vent window of my truck is a
4-inch decal, a silhouette of two square dancers (my father-in-law, who
gave me the truck, was a square dancer.) When I climbed into it the next
day I noticed that the square dancers were covered over both inside and
outside the glass with two layers of duct tape. After all, we cannot be
riding around in trucks with demonic emblems blasting out invisible rays
of Satan’s "Power of the air," can we?
Copyright 2006 by Joe Bageant
I kid you not, I have walked into the homes of some people down
here-and the only books in the house were the bible, the Left Behind
series, and religiously themed self-help books ("The Purpose Driven
Life" & similar tripe).
There are times when I think I'm going to explode if one more ignorant
backwoods cretin opens their stupid mouth. No wonder the US is in so
much trouble. How do you fix a nation, when the problem is its
citizens? Every time an attempt is made to break the cycle of
ignorance, they start shouting "..my religion/ethnicity/tastes are
being insulted. Sometimes I really do think we *are* just a 'third
world nation with nukes'.
What's interesting is that these exact same people, just a few years
ago, were insulting and sneering at liberals (their catch-all word for
People Who Are Different) for complaining about derogatory depictions of
minorities and saying that they weren't going to remove any book just
because it offended some small bunch of cry babies.
Yes, I had forgotten that! Duh ACLU is de debbil cuz' dey won' let me
say "gook" anymore!
<sigh>
-Panama Floyd, Atl.
aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA!
EAC Martian Commander
Plonked by Kadaitcha Man, Sep 06
"..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."
-Mark Twain
Religious societies are *less* moral than secular ones:
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "Lisbeth Andersson" |
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| Title: Re: Fahrenheit 451 vs. the Bible |
09 Oct 2006 02:47:03 AM |
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stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote in
news:efcii2142eusml4tfv4unbiijh98e1cdhu@4ax.com:
<...>
Lookie here. If you think I'm overcounting, think one more time
about those Left Behind books that have sold over 65 million
copies at this writing. Sold to people who do not even like or
buy books. Gore Vidal and Susan Sontag never wrote anything that
sold 65 million. That lead-footed prose and numbing
predictability that Jerry Jenkins and Tim LaHaye grind out in the
Left Behind series might not even be called writing. But whatever
it is, at least 65 million folks that our nation failed to
educate find deep meaning and solace in it. LaHaye has also sold
120 million non-fiction books, which makes him the most
successful Christian writer since the Bible.
<...>
No, it's not quite that bad. 65 million is the total sold of the first
12 titles in the series.
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/BookReviews/left.htm
There were two more titles on the website
http://www.leftbehind.com/channelbooks.asp
Anyway, that means about 5,4 million copies sold for each title. Some
of the books were probably read by more than one person, others were
not read at all (gift from aunt Alice and left to gather dust on the
shelf) and some were bought to "know thy enemy". We don't know how
many bought more than one book in the series. It's a fairly safe bet
that there are not 65 million idiots^H^H^H^H^H^Hreaders of this
series. 5+ (10?) million readers is bad enough. The illiterate can
watch the stuff on video.
I wouldn't mind trying one of the books myself, but my library doesn't
have any :-) and I'm not going to pay for it.
Lisbeth.
----
The day I don't learn anything new is the day I die.
*What we know is not nearly as interesting as *how we know it.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Fahrenheit 451 vs. the Bible |
09 Oct 2006 02:30:30 PM |
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On 09 Oct 2006 07:47:03 GMT, Lisbeth Andersson <lisand@bredband.net>
wrote in alt.atheism
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote in
news:efcii2142eusml4tfv4unbiijh98e1cdhu@4ax.com:
<...>
Lookie here. If you think I'm overcounting, think one more time
about those Left Behind books that have sold over 65 million
copies at this writing. Sold to people who do not even like or
buy books. Gore Vidal and Susan Sontag never wrote anything that
sold 65 million. That lead-footed prose and numbing
predictability that Jerry Jenkins and Tim LaHaye grind out in the
Left Behind series might not even be called writing. But whatever
it is, at least 65 million folks that our nation failed to
educate find deep meaning and solace in it. LaHaye has also sold
120 million non-fiction books, which makes him the most
successful Christian writer since the Bible.
<...>
No, it's not quite that bad. 65 million is the total sold of the first
12 titles in the series.
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/BookReviews/left.htm
There were two more titles on the website
http://www.leftbehind.com/channelbooks.asp
Anyway, that means about 5,4 million copies sold for each title. Some
of the books were probably read by more than one person, others were
not read at all (gift from aunt Alice and left to gather dust on the
shelf) and some were bought to "know thy enemy". We don't know how
many bought more than one book in the series. It's a fairly safe bet
that there are not 65 million idiots^H^H^H^H^H^Hreaders of this
series. 5+ (10?) million readers is bad enough. The illiterate can
watch the stuff on video.
I wouldn't mind trying one of the books myself, but my library doesn't
have any :-) and I'm not going to pay for it.
Request the library purchase one.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "Lisbeth Andersson" |
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| Title: Re: Fahrenheit 451 vs. the Bible |
10 Oct 2006 05:23:19 AM |
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stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote in
news:4p8li2t4rh5kqmeu4ng63n903b6m387jns@4ax.com:
I wouldn't mind trying one of the books myself, but my library
doesn't have any :-) and I'm not going to pay for it.
Request the library purchase one.
No way! Their budget is not big enough to buy the important
litterature as it is, I'm not going to suggest that they buy anything
that I would only read to see if it really is as bad as I suspect.
Lisbeth.
----
The day I don't learn anything new is the day I die.
*What we know is not nearly as interesting as *how we know it.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Fahrenheit 451 vs. the Bible |
10 Oct 2006 06:04:18 PM |
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On 10 Oct 2006 10:23:19 GMT, Lisbeth Andersson <lisand@bredband.net>
wrote in alt.atheism
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote in
news:4p8li2t4rh5kqmeu4ng63n903b6m387jns@4ax.com:
I wouldn't mind trying one of the books myself, but my library
doesn't have any :-) and I'm not going to pay for it.
Request the library purchase one.
No way! Their budget is not big enough to buy the important
litterature as it is, I'm not going to suggest that they buy anything
that I would only read to see if it really is as bad as I suspect.
Understood. Then inter-library loan would be another option.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Fahrenheit 451 vs. the Bible |
08 Oct 2006 12:00:39 PM |
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On 4 Oct 2006 23:15:48 -0700, wrote in
alt.atheism
L. Raymond wrote:
In a Conroe, just north of Houston, a parent has filed a complaint
against Fahrenheit 451 to have it removed from his 15 year old
daughter's school. The daughter was just on the news and was asked why
she was upset by the book. "They burned the Bible." The reporter
pointed out that a lot of other books were burned, too. The student
said, "Yeah, but they took God's name in vain."
The news showed some excerpts from the father's official complaint,
and it listed "cigarettes" and "talking about our firemen", presumably
disrespectfully. He dutifully gave page numbers for these and for all
the vile cussing and blasphemy that went on.
Now the good news. The other students at this school have started a
petition drive in support of the book and have plans for a peaceful
protest on Friday, when they'll wear shirts to express their opinions.
I hope this is yet another little step towards making it clear to
society at large that the fundies really are nuts and absolutely can't
be humored in all their whims.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?B58C216ED
"It's just all kinds of filth," said Alton Verm, adding that he had not
read 'Fahrenheit 451.'
I wonder if he's read *any* book since he left high school. The "Lehuft
Buh-hine" crap doesn't count, since it's written for people at his
slight level of literacy.
There are times when I think I'm going to explode if one more ignorant
backwoods cretin opens their stupid mouth. No wonder the US is in so
much trouble. How do you fix a nation, when the problem is its
citizens? Every time an attempt is made to break the cycle of
ignorance, they start shouting "..my religion/ethnicity/tastes are
being insulted. Sometimes I really do think we *are* just a `third
world nation with nukes'.
And shifting into fourth.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Fahrenheit 451 vs. the Bible |
03 Oct 2006 09:07:07 PM |
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On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 18:17:15 -0500, L. Raymond wrote:
In a Conroe, just north of Houston, a parent has filed a complaint
against Fahrenheit 451 to have it removed from his 15 year old
daughter's school. The daughter was just on the news and was asked why
she was upset by the book. "They burned the Bible." The reporter
pointed out that a lot of other books were burned, too. The student
said, "Yeah, but they took God's name in vain."
The news showed some excerpts from the father's official complaint,
and it listed "cigarettes" and "talking about our firemen", presumably
disrespectfully. He dutifully gave page numbers for these and for all
the vile cussing and blasphemy that went on.
Now the good news. The other students at this school have started a
petition drive in support of the book and have plans for a peaceful
protest on Friday, when they'll wear shirts to express their opinions.
I hope this is yet another little step towards making it clear to
society at large that the fundies really are nuts and absolutely can't
be humored in all their whims.
I just recently read about some library or other where a guy has kept "The
Joy of Gay Sex" checked out continuously for seven months to keep it out
of the library.
When word got out about this, seven new copies were donated to the library...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection." [Jarvis DeBerry]
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Fahrenheit 451 vs. the Bible |
08 Oct 2006 11:33:17 AM |
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On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 02:07:07 GMT, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gmail@com.mkbilbo>
wrote in alt.atheism
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 18:17:15 -0500, L. Raymond wrote:
In a Conroe, just north of Houston, a parent has filed a complaint
against Fahrenheit 451 to have it removed from his 15 year old
daughter's school. The daughter was just on the news and was asked why
she was upset by the book. "They burned the Bible." The reporter
pointed out that a lot of other books were burned, too. The student
said, "Yeah, but they took God's name in vain."
The news showed some excerpts from the father's official complaint,
and it listed "cigarettes" and "talking about our firemen", presumably
disrespectfully. He dutifully gave page numbers for these and for all
the vile cussing and blasphemy that went on.
Now the good news. The other students at this school have started a
petition drive in support of the book and have plans for a peaceful
protest on Friday, when they'll wear shirts to express their opinions.
I hope this is yet another little step towards making it clear to
society at large that the fundies really are nuts and absolutely can't
be humored in all their whims.
I just recently read about some library or other where a guy has kept "The
Joy of Gay Sex" checked out continuously for seven months to keep it out
of the library.
When word got out about this, seven new copies were donated to the library...
They'll be stolen.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Fahrenheit 451 vs. the Bible |
08 Oct 2006 11:31:02 AM |
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On Tue, 3 Oct 2006 18:17:15 -0500, "L. Raymond"
<badaddress@mylinuxisp.com> wrote in alt.atheism
In a Conroe, just north of Houston, a parent has filed a complaint
against Fahrenheit 451 to have it removed from his 15 year old
daughter's school. The daughter was just on the news and was asked why
she was upset by the book. "They burned the Bible." The reporter
pointed out that a lot of other books were burned, too. The student
said, "Yeah, but they took God's name in vain."
The news showed some excerpts from the father's official complaint,
and it listed "cigarettes" and "talking about our firemen", presumably
disrespectfully. He dutifully gave page numbers for these and for all
the vile cussing and blasphemy that went on.
Now the good news. The other students at this school have started a
petition drive in support of the book and have plans for a peaceful
protest on Friday, when they'll wear shirts to express their opinions.
I hope this is yet another little step towards making it clear to
society at large that the fundies really are nuts and absolutely can't
be humored in all their whims.
Once again satire doesn't come close to reality. :\
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Fahrenheit 451 vs. the Bible |
03 Oct 2006 07:34:47 PM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet L. Raymond
(badaddress@mylinuxisp.com) made the light shine upon us with this:
In a Conroe, just north of Houston, a parent has filed a complaint
against Fahrenheit 451 to have it removed from his 15 year old
daughter's school. The daughter was just on the news and was asked why
she was upset by the book. "They burned the Bible." The reporter
pointed out that a lot of other books were burned, too. The student
said, "Yeah, but they took God's name in vain."
The news showed some excerpts from the father's official complaint,
and it listed "cigarettes" and "talking about our firemen", presumably
disrespectfully. He dutifully gave page numbers for these and for all
the vile cussing and blasphemy that went on.
Now the good news. The other students at this school have started a
petition drive in support of the book and have plans for a peaceful
protest on Friday, when they'll wear shirts to express their opinions.
I hope this is yet another little step towards making it clear to
society at large that the fundies really are nuts and absolutely can't
be humored in all their whims.
If any book were removed from my daughter's school library, I would buy
her a copy for her personal library. Censorship conveys the message that
it is not OK to have your own opinion about certain things. Freedom of
expression is guaranteed to all American citizens in the First Amendment.
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Plonked by Kadaitcha Man
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| User: "L. Raymond" |
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| Title: Re: Fahrenheit 451 vs. the Bible |
03 Oct 2006 09:35:31 PM |
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Uncle Vic wrote:
If any book were removed from my daughter's school library, I would buy
her a copy for her personal library. Censorship conveys the message that
it is not OK to have your own opinion about certain things. Freedom of
expression is guaranteed to all American citizens in the First Amendment.
The first time I ever heard about people banning books was when I
worked in the high school library. I read over a list of books that had
been banned and it turned out I had read most of them during junior
high. And most of those were books deemed "age inappropriate" for high
school.
Sometimes it's hard to tell if this sort of censorship is a cause or a
symptom of the dumbing down of America.
I forgot to mention an additional irony: the reporter pointed out
that last week, when the complaint was filed, was the American Library
Association's Banned Books Week.
--
L. Raymond
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| User: "Lucifer" |
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| Title: Re: Fahrenheit 451 vs. the Bible |
04 Oct 2006 07:14:13 PM |
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L. Raymond wrote:
Uncle Vic wrote:
If any book were removed from my daughter's school library, I would buy
her a copy for her personal library. Censorship conveys the message that
it is not OK to have your own opinion about certain things. Freedom of
expression is guaranteed to all American citizens in the First Amendment.
The first time I ever heard about people banning books was when I
worked in the high school library. I read over a list of books that had
been banned and it turned out I had read most of them during junior
high. And most of those were books deemed "age inappropriate" for high
school.
Sometimes it's hard to tell if this sort of censorship is a cause or a
symptom of the dumbing down of America.
I forgot to mention an additional irony: the reporter pointed out
that last week, when the complaint was filed, was the American Library
Association's Banned Books Week.
Reminds me of the time I tried to get Iain (M) Banks into our school
library....They did it, but after a few weeks there were
complaints....seems that they they had chosen, for their first two
Banks books in there, Complicity and Against a Dark Background...
--
Lucifer, EAC Librarian of Dark Tomes of Excessive Evil and General
Purpose Igor
"Don't worry, I won't bite.......hard"
--
L. Raymond
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| User: "L. Raymond" |
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| Title: Re: Fahrenheit 451 vs. the Bible |
05 Oct 2006 02:40:39 AM |
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Lucifer wrote:
Reminds me of the time I tried to get Iain (M) Banks into our school
library....They did it, but after a few weeks there were
complaints....seems that they they had chosen, for their first two
Banks books in there, Complicity and Against a Dark Background...
I had to look up the plots for these. _Complicity_ sounds perfectly
awful to me and I can understand why it may have upset some people, but
the other one seems rather interesting and harmless, unless it's full of
"objectionable language" or promotes witchcraft or one of the other
literary sins would-be censors like to invoke.
--
L. Raymond
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| User: "Lucifer" |
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| Title: Re: Fahrenheit 451 vs. the Bible |
06 Oct 2006 01:26:51 PM |
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L. Raymond wrote:
Lucifer wrote:
Reminds me of the time I tried to get Iain (M) Banks into our school
library....They did it, but after a few weeks there were
complaints....seems that they they had chosen, for their first two
Banks books in there, Complicity and Against a Dark Background...
I had to look up the plots for these. _Complicity_ sounds perfectly
awful to me and I can understand why it may have upset some people, but
the other one seems rather interesting and harmless, unless it's full of
"objectionable language" or promotes witchcraft or one of the other
literary sins would-be censors like to invoke.
Hehe, complicity is amazing, seeing as it uses second person for all
the murders.
Against a Dark Background is totally twisted, but in a generally good
way, but contains sex drugs and really quite alarming levels of
violence, even by Ian M Banks standards. I would say that those two are
his most controversial works, and possibly the best as well.
--
Lucifer, EAC Librarian of Dark Tomes of Excessive Evil and General
Purpose Igor
"Don't worry, I won't bite.......hard"
--
L. Raymond
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| User: "Davej" |
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| Title: Re: Fahrenheit 451 vs. the Bible |
05 Oct 2006 06:38:16 AM |
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L. Raymond wrote:
Uncle Vic wrote:
If any book were removed from my daughter's school library, I would buy
her a copy for her personal library. Censorship conveys the message that
it is not OK to have your own opinion about certain things. Freedom of
expression is guaranteed to all American citizens in the First Amendment.
The first time I ever heard about people banning books was when I
worked in the high school library. I read over a list of books that had
been banned and it turned out I had read most of them during junior
high. And most of those were books deemed "age inappropriate" for high
school.
Sometimes it's hard to tell if this sort of censorship is a cause or a
symptom of the dumbing down of America.
I forgot to mention an additional irony: the reporter pointed out
that last week, when the complaint was filed, was the American Library
Association's Banned Books Week.
So if I go visit my local county library I can ask them for their list
of banned books?
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| User: "L. Raymond" |
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| Title: Re: Fahrenheit 451 vs. the Bible |
05 Oct 2006 11:45:24 AM |
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Davej wrote:
L. Raymond wrote:
The first time I ever heard about people banning books was when I
worked in the high school library. I read over a list of books that had
been banned and it turned out I had read most of them during junior
high. And most of those were books deemed "age inappropriate" for high
school.
Sometimes it's hard to tell if this sort of censorship is a cause or a
symptom of the dumbing down of America.
I forgot to mention an additional irony: the reporter pointed out
that last week, when the complaint was filed, was the American Library
Association's Banned Books Week.
So if I go visit my local county library I can ask them for their list
of banned books?
Liz gave the best link, but talk to your librarian anyway. Most
libraries seem to have one or two titles that disappear, either because
they're constantly checked out by someone who wants to keep them out of
general circulation or because they're just plain stolen. They should
be able to tell if they're dealing with that type of censor and what is
being targeted.
--
L. Raymond
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| User: "Liz" |
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| Title: Re: Fahrenheit 451 vs. the Bible |
05 Oct 2006 07:10:54 AM |
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On 5 Oct 2006 04:38:16 -0700, "Davej" <galt_57@hotmail.com> in news
message <1160048296.763238.29610@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> wrote:
L. Raymond wrote:
Uncle Vic wrote:
If any book were removed from my daughter's school library, I would buy
her a copy for her personal library. Censorship conveys the message that
it is not OK to have your own opinion about certain things. Freedom of
expression is guaranteed to all American citizens in the First Amendment.
The first time I ever heard about people banning books was when I
worked in the high school library. I read over a list of books that had
been banned and it turned out I had read most of them during junior
high. And most of those were books deemed "age inappropriate" for high
school.
Sometimes it's hard to tell if this sort of censorship is a cause or a
symptom of the dumbing down of America.
I forgot to mention an additional irony: the reporter pointed out
that last week, when the complaint was filed, was the American Library
Association's Banned Books Week.
So if I go visit my local county library I can ask them for their list
of banned books?
It's easier than that. Click on the link.
http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedbooksweek/bbwlinks/100mostfrequently.htm
Liz #658 BAAWA
If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell
people what they do not want to hear. - George Orwell
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