| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"IKnowHimDoYou" |
| Date: |
31 May 2004 11:46:07 AM |
| Object: |
Faith |
Faith
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things
not seen." Heb 11:1
Faith enters into the picture whenever we attempt to understand somethng
outside the realm of empirical observation. Even the atheist has faith;
faith that there is no God. This faith is also true for creationists.
"Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the Word of
God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do
appear" Heb 11:3. Creationist faith is certainly reasonable faith, in
stark contrast to evolutionary religion faith which believes in ordered
complexity from disorder, without any ordering mechanism or outside
intelligence.
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| User: "MrPepper11" |
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| Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) |
05 Jun 2004 05:09:58 PM |
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(Nico Demusopelous) wrote in message news:<2c68d44e.0406031834.5ef63eb@posting.google.com>...
Vic Sagerquist <address@withheld.com> wrote in message news:<Xns94FA82300C1E9vicman@63.240.76.16>...
The entire Bible is
systematic like a math book from start to finish.
Pi = 3? No wonder "true" christians fall behind in higher learning.
Ummm, does the Bible actually say p = 3? No, it does not. It refers to
a shape that is 30 units around, and 10 units across. Suppose I took a
man who was a tenured professor in Mathematics at MIT to a pizza shop,
handed him a tape measure, and asked him to take the circumference of
a pizza pie as well as the distance across (the diameter of the pi).
If we divide the figures he comes up with, and they don't come out to
pi, should he lose his job for not knowing the value of pi? Or should
we conclude that the pizza pie did not form a perfect circle? The same
goes for the relevant Biblical verses in Kings and Chronicles: we
could just as sensibly conclude that the shape being described does
not form a perfect circle.
Yeah, and the Flood covered the whole earth to the depth of 15 cubits...
How fast did Jesus ascend to heaven? 186,000 miles/second?
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| User: "Nico Demusopelous" |
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| Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) |
07 Jun 2004 07:01:53 PM |
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(MrPepper11) wrote in message news:<57cfd534.0406051409.122e36a@posting.google.com>...
The entire Bible is
systematic like a math book from start to finish.
Pi = 3? No wonder "true" christians fall behind in higher learning.
Ummm, does the Bible actually say p = 3? No, it does not. It refers to
a shape that is 30 units around, and 10 units across. Suppose I took a
man who was a tenured professor in Mathematics at MIT to a pizza shop,
handed him a tape measure, and asked him to take the circumference of
a pizza pie as well as the distance across (the diameter of the pi).
If we divide the figures he comes up with, and they don't come out to
pi, should he lose his job for not knowing the value of pi? Or should
we conclude that the pizza pie did not form a perfect circle? The same
goes for the relevant Biblical verses in Kings and Chronicles: we
could just as sensibly conclude that the shape being described does
not form a perfect circle.
Yeah, and the Flood covered the whole earth to the depth of 15 cubits...
I, personally, do not believe a global flood happened. Let us assume
three things, however:
(i) The Bible asserts a global flood.
(ii) Liberal Christians who interpret the Biblical flood as
local are employing strained exegesis.
(iii) The Bible's claim is simply false.
Assuming, just for the sake of argument, that all three propositions
are true (i seems to imply ii, and the combination of i and the
evidence implies iii), this would be irrelevant to the question of
whether the Bible states that pi is equal to three. Can anyone say
"red herring"?
How fast did Jesus ascend to heaven? 186,000 miles/second?
Red herring #2. Well, if he was traveling at the speed of light, I
suppose his length and mass would have approached infinity, and even
if it didn't, if he left Jerusalem at the speed of light 1,971 years
ago (33CE), he would not yet have left our galaxy. Are you expecting
me to say "ooh, ooh, worm hole!"? I'll simply say that regardless of
whether Jesus ascended to heaven, this has nothing to do with whether
the Bible asserts that pi equals three.
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| User: "Rolleston" |
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| Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) |
06 Jun 2004 04:27:14 PM |
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MrPepper11 wrote:
How fast did Jesus ascend to heaven? 186,000 miles/second?
Godspeed?
R.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) |
05 Jun 2004 06:02:47 PM |
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On 5 Jun 2004 15:09:58 -0700, (MrPepper11) wrote:
nicodemus-asks@jesusanswers.com (Nico Demusopelous) wrote in message news:<2c68d44e.0406031834.5ef63eb@posting.google.com>...
Vic Sagerquist <address@withheld.com> wrote in message news:<Xns94FA82300C1E9vicman@63.240.76.16>...
The entire Bible is
systematic like a math book from start to finish.
Pi = 3? No wonder "true" christians fall behind in higher learning.
Ummm, does the Bible actually say p = 3? No, it does not. It refers to
a shape that is 30 units around, and 10 units across. Suppose I took a
man who was a tenured professor in Mathematics at MIT to a pizza shop,
handed him a tape measure, and asked him to take the circumference of
a pizza pie as well as the distance across (the diameter of the pi).
If we divide the figures he comes up with, and they don't come out to
pi, should he lose his job for not knowing the value of pi? Or should
we conclude that the pizza pie did not form a perfect circle? The same
goes for the relevant Biblical verses in Kings and Chronicles: we
could just as sensibly conclude that the shape being described does
not form a perfect circle.
Yeah, and the Flood covered the whole earth to the depth of 15 cubits...
Must have been something strange about surface tensiond gravity that
stopped it flowing downhill.
How fast did Jesus ascend to heaven? 186,000 miles/second?
He wasn't that light.
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| User: "Randy Day" |
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| Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) |
05 Jun 2004 06:33:20 PM |
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"Christopher A. Lee" wrote:
[snip]
How fast did Jesus ascend to heaven? 186,000 miles/second?
He wasn't that light.
Let's see; ~75kg, E=MC^2
*****, can you imagine the effect when he ARRIVED?
No WONDER God is dead!
R
Atheist Chair,
EAC DIsciplinary Committee
--
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| User: "Puck Greenman" |
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| Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) |
06 Jun 2004 02:57:29 PM |
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On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 17:33:20 -0600, Randy Day <ruthal@sasktel.nex>
wrote:
"Christopher A. Lee" wrote:
[snip]
How fast did Jesus ascend to heaven? 186,000 miles/second?
He wasn't that light.
Let's see; ~75kg, E=MC^2
*****, can you imagine the effect when he ARRIVED?
No WONDER God is dead!
He would surely have some fun stopping.
The must have bloody long runways in heaven.
Puck Greenman
#162
BAAWA Knight.
Blesed is the self righteous xtian,
for his is the sure and certain knowledge
that no matter what load of tripe he
comes out with:
God told him to say it.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) |
06 Jun 2004 04:22:14 PM |
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On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 20:57:29 +0100, Puck Greenman <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote:
He would surely have some fun stopping.
No problem for God.
The must have bloody long runways in heaven.
Nah, not needed by God.
duke
*****
I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear
it now. When he comes, the Holy Spirit will declare
to you the things that are coming. John 16:12-15.
*****
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) |
06 Jun 2004 04:19:29 PM |
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On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 17:33:20 -0600, Randy Day <ruthal@sasktel.nex> wrote:
He wasn't that light.
Let's see; ~75kg, E=MC^2
*****, can you imagine the effect when he ARRIVED?
No WONDER God is dead!
Actually God invented light. Remember, he said "let there be light". Jesus arrived
instantaneously. Now that's fast. And only God can do that.
duke
*****
I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear
it now. When he comes, the Holy Spirit will declare
to you the things that are coming. John 16:12-15.
*****
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| User: "Puck Greenman" |
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| Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) |
07 Jun 2004 04:57:52 PM |
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On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 16:19:29 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 17:33:20 -0600, Randy Day <ruthal@sasktel.nex> wrote:
He wasn't that light.
Let's see; ~75kg, E=MC^2
*****, can you imagine the effect when he ARRIVED?
No WONDER God is dead!
Actually God invented light. Remember, he said "let there be light". Jesus arrived
instantaneously. Now that's fast. And only God can do that.
Yea. Okay.
Puck Greenman
#162
BAAWA Knight.
Blesed is the self righteous xtian,
for his is the sure and certain knowledge
that no matter what load of tripe he
comes out with:
God told him to say it.
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| User: "Desdinova" |
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| Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) |
07 Jun 2004 05:01:02 PM |
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"Puck Greenman" <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote in message
news:15p9c05960ugogbheh0ld2uu3df4nvpgj2@4ax.com...
On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 16:19:29 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 17:33:20 -0600, Randy Day <ruthal@sasktel.nex> wrote:
He wasn't that light.
Let's see; ~75kg, E=MC^2
*****, can you imagine the effect when he ARRIVED?
No WONDER God is dead!
Actually God invented light. Remember, he said "let there be light".
Jesus arrived
instantaneously. Now that's fast. And only God can do that.
Yea. Okay.
Well that sure explains it all .
--
Desdinova
desdinova@indy.rr.com
AA #2182 EAC Director of If I Told You I'd Have To Kill You
Theology is never any help;
it is searching in a dark cellar at midnight
for a black cat that isn't there.
-- Robert A. Heinlein
Not one man in a thousand has either
strength of mind or goodness of heart
to be an Atheist.
-- Samuel Taylor Coleridge
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| User: "JessHC" |
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| Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) |
07 Jun 2004 04:50:28 AM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<ff27c0llfpshctalbp5m55ha2gccbnmc5l@4ax.com>...
On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 17:33:20 -0600, Randy Day <ruthal@sasktel.nex> wrote:
He wasn't that light.
Let's see; ~75kg, E=MC^2
*****, can you imagine the effect when he ARRIVED?
No WONDER God is dead!
Actually God invented light. Remember, he said "let there be light". Jesus arrived
instantaneously. Now that's fast. And only God can do that.
<snicker>
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| User: "georgann" |
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| Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) |
04 Jun 2004 07:58:11 AM |
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The entire Bible is systematic like a math book from start to finish.
Pi = 3? No wonder "true" christians fall behind in higher learning.
"Nico Demusopelous" wrote:
Ummm, does the Bible actually say p = 3? No, it does not. It refers to a shape
that is 30 units around, and 10 units across. Suppose I took a man who was a
tenured professor in Mathematics at MIT to a pizza shop, handed him a tape
measure, and asked him to take the circumference of a pizza pie as well as the
distance across (the diameter of the pi). If we divide the figures he comes up
with, and they don't come out to pi, should he lose his job for not knowing
the value of pi? Or should we conclude that the pizza pie did not form a
perfect circle? The same goes for the relevant Biblical verses in Kings and
Chronicles: we could just as sensibly conclude that the shape being described
does not form a perfect circle.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Atheists don't want to know what the Bible really says. They much prefer to
waddle about in their misconceptions. If they really wanted to end the Pi
controversy they would already be aware of this very complete web site
explanation of what the Bible really says about Pi:
http://www.yfiles.com/pi.html
--
(`'·.¸(`'·.¸(`'·.¸ ¸.·'´)¸.·'´)¸.·'´)
«´¨`·.¸¸ ¸¸.·´¨ `»
All your prophecy are belong to Christ!
(¸.·'´(¸.·'´(¸.·'´ `'·.¸)`'·.¸)`'·.¸)
.
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| User: "IKnowHimDoYou" |
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| Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) |
04 Jun 2004 10:10:54 AM |
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In article <BCE5EA22.35390459%chenault@mindspring.com>, georgann
<chenault@mindspring.com> wrote:
The entire Bible is systematic like a math book from start to finish.
Pi = 3? No wonder "true" christians fall behind in higher learning.
"Nico Demusopelous" wrote:
Ummm, does the Bible actually say p = 3? No, it does not. It refers to
a shape
that is 30 units around, and 10 units across. Suppose I took a man who was a
tenured professor in Mathematics at MIT to a pizza shop, handed him a tape
measure, and asked him to take the circumference of a pizza pie as
well as the
distance across (the diameter of the pi). If we divide the figures he
comes up
with, and they don't come out to pi, should he lose his job for not knowing
the value of pi? Or should we conclude that the pizza pie did not form a
perfect circle? The same goes for the relevant Biblical verses in Kings and
Chronicles: we could just as sensibly conclude that the shape being
described
does not form a perfect circle.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Atheists don't want to know what the Bible really says. They much prefer to
waddle about in their misconceptions. If they really wanted to end the Pi
controversy they would already be aware of this very complete web site
explanation of what the Bible really says about Pi:
http://www.yfiles.com/pi.html
--
(`'·.¸(`'·.¸(`'·.¸ ¸.·'´)¸.·'´)¸.·'´)
«´¨`·.¸¸ ¸¸.·´¨ `»
All your prophecy are belong to Christ!
(¸.·'´(¸.·'´(¸.·'´ `'·.¸)`'·.¸)`'·.¸)
_________________________________________________________________________
Thanks for that source Georgann. It is terrific!
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| User: "Jos Flachs" |
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| Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) |
04 Jun 2004 08:59:12 PM |
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On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 12:58:11 GMT, georgann <chenault@mindspring.com>
wrote:
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Atheists don't want to know what the Bible really says.
Were exactly does it say you can repent your sins and do them again?
They much prefer to waddle about in their misconceptions.
What about adultery? If you repent your adultery, are you free to do
it again?
If they really wanted to end the Pi
controversy they would already be aware of this very complete web site
explanation of what the Bible really says about Pi:
There is no controversy over 'Pi'. Your gods know less about math than
I do. Given that your holy bible was written before 99% of mathematics
were discovered, not fucking surprising.
.
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| User: "georgann" |
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| Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) |
05 Jun 2004 06:53:37 AM |
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"Jos Flachs" wrote:
There is no controversy over 'Pi'. Your gods know less about math than I do.
Given that your holy bible was written before 99% of mathematics were
discovered, not fucking surprising.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
When the Bible was penned or when 99% of mathematics were discovered
(according to man) have absolutely nothing to do with what God knows. But
you don't know that so you'll prattle on about it as if you do.
--
(`'·.¸(`'·.¸(`'·.¸ ¸.·'´)¸.·'´)¸.·'´)
«´¨`·.¸¸ ¸¸.·´¨ `»
All your prophecy are belong to Christ!
(¸.·'´(¸.·'´(¸.·'´ `'·.¸)`'·.¸)`'·.¸)
.
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| User: "Jos Flachs" |
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| Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) |
05 Jun 2004 10:19:49 PM |
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On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 11:53:37 GMT, georgann <chenault@mindspring.com>
wrote:
"Jos Flachs" wrote:
There is no controversy over 'Pi'. Your gods know less about math than I do.
Given that your holy bible was written before 99% of mathematics were
discovered, not fucking surprising.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
When the Bible was penned or when 99% of mathematics were discovered
(according to man) have absolutely nothing to do with what God knows. But
you don't know that so you'll prattle on about it as if you do.
Georgann, why do you insist in making yourself so ridiculous?
When most of the OT was written money wasn't even invented. Let alone
math.
You are one of those super morons taking that silly book literal.
(Where it suits you, of course. The adultery parts you probably rather
skip.)
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| User: "georgann" |
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| Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) |
06 Jun 2004 05:42:52 AM |
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"Jos Flachs" wrote:
There is no controversy over 'Pi'. Your gods know less about math than I do.
Given that your holy bible was written before 99% of mathematics were
discovered, not fucking surprising.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
When the Bible was penned or when 99% of mathematics were discovered
(according to man) have absolutely nothing to do with what God knows. But you
don't know that so you'll prattle on about it as if you do.
"Jos Flachs" wrote:
Georgann, why do you insist in making yourself so ridiculous?
When most of the OT was written money wasn't even invented. Let alone math.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Well since the Bible does get the Pi issue right
http://www.yfiles.com/pi.html
what are you harping about it for?
"Jos Flachs" wrote:
You are one of those super morons taking that silly book literal. (Where it
suits you, of course. The adultery parts you probably rather skip.)
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
I take it more literally than those you call morons. If God told us the
waters of the flood covered the whole earth by 15 cubits that's a true word
picture i.e. data for a diagram to me. Most other literalists don't see it
as literally as that.
As for the adultery I'm washed clean by the blood of Jesus and Him alone so
now I'm forever free of that stain. Guess you'll have to come up with
something else to needle me with.
--
(`'·.¸(`'·.¸(`'·.¸ ¸.·'´)¸.·'´)¸.·'´)
«´¨`·.¸¸ ¸¸.·´¨ `»
All your prophecy are belong to Christ!
(¸.·'´(¸.·'´(¸.·'´ `'·.¸)`'·.¸)`'·.¸)
.
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| User: "Earl Camembert" |
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| Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) |
04 Jun 2004 10:33:03 PM |
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On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 08:59:12 +0700, Jos Flachs
<'wcruise'@ksc15.th.com> wrote:
On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 12:58:11 GMT, georgann <chenault@mindspring.com>
wrote:
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Atheists don't want to know what the Bible really says.
Were exactly does it say you can repent your sins and do them again?
They much prefer to waddle about in their misconceptions.
What about adultery? If you repent your adultery, are you free to do
it again?
If they really wanted to end the Pi
controversy they would already be aware of this very complete web site
explanation of what the Bible really says about Pi:
There is no controversy over 'Pi'. Your gods know less about math than
I do. Given that your holy bible was written before 99% of mathematics
were discovered, not fucking surprising.
Wrong, the Egyptians knew more about math then you ever will.
.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) |
05 Jun 2004 12:56:19 AM |
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"Earl Camembert" <nospam@forme.org> wrote in message
news:lmf2c0l03qvl9rfu1322g81p0fhtqnnnmr@4ax.com...
On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 08:59:12 +0700, Jos Flachs
<'wcruise'@ksc15.th.com> wrote:
On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 12:58:11 GMT, georgann <chenault@mindspring.com>
wrote:
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Atheists don't want to know what the Bible really says.
Were exactly does it say you can repent your sins and do them again?
They much prefer to waddle about in their misconceptions.
What about adultery? If you repent your adultery, are you free to do
it again?
If they really wanted to end the Pi
controversy they would already be aware of this very complete web site
explanation of what the Bible really says about Pi:
There is no controversy over 'Pi'. Your gods know less about math than
I do. Given that your holy bible was written before 99% of mathematics
were discovered, not fucking surprising.
Wrong, the Egyptians knew more about math then you ever will.
Don't be silly. The Egyptian did a lot of math and were good at geometry but
would never have understood a lot of stuff taught in elementary school
today.
They would have laughed at the integral of e^x = the function of u^ n ,
something mathematicians have to be shown and would have had no trouble
with coffee cups and donuts.
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| User: "Jos Flachs" |
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| Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) |
05 Jun 2004 07:04:53 AM |
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On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 03:33:03 GMT, Earl Camembert <nospam@forme.org>
wrote:
On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 08:59:12 +0700, Jos Flachs
<'wcruise'@ksc15.th.com> wrote:
On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 12:58:11 GMT, georgann <chenault@mindspring.com>
wrote:
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Atheists don't want to know what the Bible really says.
Were exactly does it say you can repent your sins and do them again?
They much prefer to waddle about in their misconceptions.
What about adultery? If you repent your adultery, are you free to do
it again?
If they really wanted to end the Pi
controversy they would already be aware of this very complete web site
explanation of what the Bible really says about Pi:
There is no controversy over 'Pi'. Your gods know less about math than
I do. Given that your holy bible was written before 99% of mathematics
were discovered, not fucking surprising.
Wrong, the Egyptians knew more about math then you ever will.
Not very surprising. I'm pretty bad in math. The only entity worse
than me is god. And he doesn't exist.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) |
04 Jun 2004 08:15:03 AM |
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georgann <chenault@mindspring.com> wrote in
news:BCE5EA22.35390459%chenault@mindspring.com:
The entire Bible is systematic like a math book from start to
finish.
Pi = 3? No wonder "true" christians fall behind in higher learning.
"Nico Demusopelous" wrote:
Ummm, does the Bible actually say p = 3? No, it does not. It refers
to a shape that is 30 units around, and 10 units across. Suppose I
took a man who was a tenured professor in Mathematics at MIT to a
pizza shop, handed him a tape measure, and asked him to take the
circumference of a pizza pie as well as the distance across (the
diameter of the pi). If we divide the figures he comes up with, and
they don't come out to pi, should he lose his job for not knowing
the value of pi? Or should we conclude that the pizza pie did not
form a perfect circle? The same goes for the relevant Biblical verses
in Kings and Chronicles: we could just as sensibly conclude that the
shape being described does not form a perfect circle.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Atheists don't want to know what the Bible really says. They much
prefer to waddle about in their misconceptions. If they really wanted
to end the Pi controversy they would already be aware of this very
complete web site explanation of what the Bible really says about Pi:
http://www.yfiles.com/pi.html
The argument about pi is just one trivial example of how the Bible is
not inerrant. If theists didn't insist on the perfection of their moldy
old tome, it wouldn't matter in the least about how crummy Biblical math
is.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
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| User: "Nico Demusopelous" |
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| Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) |
04 Jun 2004 12:57:41 PM |
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Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message news:<Xns94FE5E1BC180Efstone69@207.69.154.203>...
Atheists don't want to know what the Bible really says. They much
prefer to waddle about in their misconceptions. If they really wanted
to end the Pi controversy they would already be aware of this very
complete web site explanation of what the Bible really says about Pi:
http://www.yfiles.com/pi.html
The argument about pi is just one trivial example of how the Bible is
not inerrant. If theists didn't insist on the perfection of their moldy
old tome, it wouldn't matter in the least about how crummy Biblical math
is.
The problem with your statement is that I have never asserted the
Bible is inerrant. The issue is whether or not the Bible claims that
pi is equal to three. The point of this thread is to demonstrate that
it does not.
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| User: "Puck Greenman" |
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| Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) |
04 Jun 2004 02:34:51 PM |
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On 4 Jun 2004 10:57:41 -0700, (Nico
Demusopelous) wrote:
The problem with your statement is that I have never asserted the
Bible is inerrant.
The issue is whether or not the Bible claims that
pi is equal to three. The point of this thread is to demonstrate that
it does not.
In which case, the thread fails.
Puck Greenman
#162
BAAWA Knight.
Blesed is the self righteous xtian,
for his is the sure and certain knowledge
that no matter what load of tripe he
comes out with:
God told him to say it.
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) |
04 Jun 2004 08:57:02 PM |
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One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Puck Greenman:
On 4 Jun 2004 10:57:41 -0700, (Nico
Demusopelous) wrote:
The problem with your statement is that I have never asserted the
Bible is inerrant.
The issue is whether or not the Bible claims that
pi is equal to three. The point of this thread is to demonstrate that
it does not.
In which case, the thread fails.
Yet it thrives.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
It's my funeral and I'll fry if I want to...
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| User: "Nico Demusopelous" |
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| Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) |
04 Jun 2004 09:21:56 PM |
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Puck Greenman <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote in message news:<tkj1c0tpcopm6rq2nt7efqoor7bk6979p6@4ax.com>...
The problem with your statement is that I have never asserted the
Bible is inerrant.
The issue is whether or not the Bible claims that
pi is equal to three. The point of this thread is to demonstrate that
it does not.
In which case, the thread fails.
How is that? The verses have been examined, and at no point do either
of them positively assert that pi equals three. So the thread seems a
success to me.
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| User: "Gregory A Greenman" |
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| Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) |
05 Jun 2004 01:56:39 AM |
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In article <2c68d44e.0406031834.5ef63eb@posting.google.com>,
nicodemus-asks@jesusanswers.com says...
Vic Sagerquist <address@withheld.com> wrote in message news:<Xns94FA82300C1E9vicman@63.240.76.16>...
The entire Bible is
systematic like a math book from start to finish.
Pi = 3? No wonder "true" christians fall behind in higher learning.
Ummm, does the Bible actually say p = 3? No, it does not.
Word for word? No.
It refers to a shape that is 30 units around, and 10 units across.
Which means that pi is three.
Suppose I took a
man who was a tenured professor in Mathematics at MIT to a pizza shop,
handed him a tape measure, and asked him to take the circumference of
a pizza pie as well as the distance across (the diameter of the pi).
If we divide the figures he comes up with, and they don't come out to
pi, should he lose his job for not knowing the value of pi?
If he writes that the diameter was ten and the circumference was
thirty, then he's wrong. Firing him for that mistake might be a
tad extreme, but it would be a mistake nonetheless.
This mistake would, of course, confirm that he's human. On the
other hand, the author of the bible is not supposed to be human.
Or should
we conclude that the pizza pie did not form a perfect circle? The same
goes for the relevant Biblical verses in Kings and Chronicles: we
could just as sensibly conclude that the shape being described does
not form a perfect circle.
We could if it said that. Or, god could have made pi be exactly
three. That doesn't seem too tough for an all powerful god. Or,
he could just have thrown the word "approximately" or something
similar into his description. I'm pretty sure that's what the
tenured professor would have done.
--
Greg
----
greg -at- spencersoft -dot- com
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| User: "Nico Demusopelous" |
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| Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) |
05 Jun 2004 08:36:31 AM |
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Gregory A Greenman <see@sig.below> wrote in message news:<MPG.1b2b2aa8607a4cae9896a4@netnews.comcast.net>...
The entire Bible is
systematic like a math book from start to finish.
Pi = 3? No wonder "true" christians fall behind in higher learning.
Ummm, does the Bible actually say p = 3? No, it does not.
Word for word? No.
Agreed.
It refers to a shape that is 30 units around, and 10 units across.
Which means that pi is three.
No, it does not. It means the distance around divided by the distance
across is equal to three, but that figure only equals pi if the shape
forms a perfect circle. More on this below...
Suppose I took a
man who was a tenured professor in Mathematics at MIT to a pizza shop,
handed him a tape measure, and asked him to take the circumference of
a pizza pie as well as the distance across (the diameter of the pi).
If we divide the figures he comes up with, and they don't come out to
pi, should he lose his job for not knowing the value of pi?
If he writes that the diameter was ten and the circumference was
thirty, then he's wrong. Firing him for that mistake might be a
tad extreme, but it would be a mistake nonetheless.
Are you saying that every pizza pie forms a perfect circle? Or do you
think that it might be possible that if you take a pizza pie and
divide the circumference by the diamter, you'll get a figure other
than pi? All the Bible does is mention an object, and mention the
distance around and the distance across. The fact that dividing these
two figures does not necessarily mean that the text is claiming pi
equals three. It could just as sensibly be reporting the actual
measurements of an object that is not a perfect circle.
This mistake would, of course, confirm that he's human. On the
other hand, the author of the bible is not supposed to be human.
It is not supposed to be human to inerrantist Christians. But even if
I were to assume the Bible is a text of a wholly human origin, this
does not change my argument. Regardless of the authorship of the
Bible, my argument still stands: it has yet to be demonstrated that
the Bible positively asserts that pi is equal to three.
Or should
we conclude that the pizza pie did not form a perfect circle? The same
goes for the relevant Biblical verses in Kings and Chronicles: we
could just as sensibly conclude that the shape being described does
not form a perfect circle.
We could if it said that. Or, god could have made pi be exactly
three. That doesn't seem too tough for an all powerful god. Or,
he could just have thrown the word "approximately" or something
similar into his description. I'm pretty sure that's what the
tenured professor would have done.
Why can't there be an object that is *EXACTLY* (not approximately) 30
units around, and ten units across? I think such an object is at least
possible. And I don't mean possible for some all powerful deity to
make. I think human beings today could create an elliptical figure
that is, maybe not exactly but within a thousandth of an inch, 30
inches around and 10 inches across. If such an object existed, and I
read the measurements aloud, would I be asserting that pi equals
three? No.
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| User: "Puck Greenman" |
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| Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) |
05 Jun 2004 03:10:10 PM |
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On 5 Jun 2004 06:36:31 -0700, (Nico
Demusopelous) wrote:
Why can't there be an object that is *EXACTLY* (not approximately) 30
units around, and ten units across? I think such an object is at least
possible. And I don't mean possible for some all powerful deity to
make. I think human beings today could create an elliptical figure
that is, maybe not exactly but within a thousandth of an inch, 30
inches around and 10 inches across. If such an object existed, and I
read the measurements aloud, would I be asserting that pi equals
three? No.
But we are not discussing a thousandth of an inch, we are discussing
approximately nine inches, and twenty seven inches.
Even your own ten inches. and thirty inches., has a discrepancy of
app. half an inch, and one and a half inches.
Rather more than a thousandth.
If 1 Sam. can be accurate in the measure of a man's hight:-
SA1 17:4 And there went out a champion out of the camp of the
Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a
span.
-:Surely it would not be unreasonable to expect Chronicles, to be as
accurate.
Had Chronicles read "nine cubits and a span", I doubt that you would
hear much argument, or had it read "thirty one cubits and a span",
there would have been little said.
But it doesn't, it says ten, and thirty.
Puck Greenman
#162
BAAWA Knight.
Blesed is the self righteous xtian,
for his is the sure and certain knowledge
that no matter what load of tripe he
comes out with:
God told him to say it.
.
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| User: "Nico Demusopelous" |
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| Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) |
07 Jun 2004 06:56:35 PM |
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Puck Greenman <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote in message news:<dq84c017b6ngvcps46vhhjqm5uan76ie6i@4ax.com>...
Why can't there be an object that is *EXACTLY* (not approximately) 30
units around, and ten units across? I think such an object is at least
possible. And I don't mean possible for some all powerful deity to
make. I think human beings today could create an elliptical figure
that is, maybe not exactly but within a thousandth of an inch, 30
inches around and 10 inches across. If such an object existed, and I
read the measurements aloud, would I be asserting that pi equals
three? No.
But we are not discussing a thousandth of an inch, we are discussing
approximately nine inches, and twenty seven inches.
Even your own ten inches. and thirty inches., has a discrepancy of
app. half an inch, and one and a half inches.
Rather more than a thousandth.
If 1 Sam. can be accurate in the measure of a man's hight:-
SA1 17:4 And there went out a champion out of the camp of the
Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a
span.
Assuming a cubit is somewhere around 18 inches or half a meter (I'm
ignorant of the metric system, so forgive me if my assumption that 18
inches is close to half a meter), then I would agree this is a highly
fantastic description. So fantastic in fact, that I wouldn't hold it
against a man if he disbelieved (on the grounds that "grown men don't
believe such things"). But even if this is hyperbole, or even pure
fiction, it has nothing to with the question of whether the Bible says
pi is equal to three.
-:Surely it would not be unreasonable to expect Chronicles, to be as
accurate.
Had Chronicles read "nine cubits and a span", I doubt that you would
hear much argument, or had it read "thirty one cubits and a span",
there would have been little said.
But it doesn't, it says ten, and thirty.
I'm not familiar with the verse, so let me ask: are you saying
Chronicles gives an even larger height for Goliath? That could easily
be chalked up to hyperbole. Are you going to say "oooo, so the Bible
aint inerrant?" I never claimed it was (nor, for that matter, did I
claim it was the word of God). The question is whether the Bible
asserts that pi is equal to three, and I think the answer is clear no.
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| User: "Earl Camembert" |
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| Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) |
03 Jun 2004 10:45:57 PM |
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On 3 Jun 2004 19:34:44 -0700, (Nico
Demusopelous) wrote:
Vic Sagerquist <address@withheld.com> wrote in message news:<Xns94FA82300C1E9vicman@63.240.76.16>...
The entire Bible is
systematic like a math book from start to finish.
Pi = 3? No wonder "true" christians fall behind in higher learning.
Ummm, does the Bible actually say p = 3? No, it does not. It refers to
a shape that is 30 units around, and 10 units across. Suppose I took a
man who was a tenured professor in Mathematics at MIT to a pizza shop,
handed him a tape measure, and asked him to take the circumference of
a pizza pie as well as the distance across (the diameter of the pi).
If we divide the figures he comes up with, and they don't come out to
pi, should he lose his job for not knowing the value of pi? Or should
we conclude that the pizza pie did not form a perfect circle? The same
goes for the relevant Biblical verses in Kings and Chronicles: we
could just as sensibly conclude that the shape being described does
not form a perfect circle.
2 Chronicles 4:.2 Also he made the molten sea of ten cubits from brim
to brim, round in compass; and the height of it was five cubits; and a
line of thirty cubits compassed it round about.
Well, let us look at the verse. The molten sea was ROUND. If we are to
take the Bible literally round must mean round.
If you believe that the "tenured professor in Mathematics at MIT" is
god they you should get a new god because of his error.
You can't have it both ways. Ether the Bible is the perfect word of
GOD and pi=3 or the Bible was written by a "tenured professor in
Mathematics at MIT" and the Bible is at best an estimate.
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