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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "IKnowHimDoYou"
Date: 31 May 2004 11:46:07 AM
Object: Faith
Faith
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things
not seen." Heb 11:1
Faith enters into the picture whenever we attempt to understand somethng
outside the realm of empirical observation. Even the atheist has faith;
faith that there is no God. This faith is also true for creationists.
"Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the Word of
God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do
appear" Heb 11:3. Creationist faith is certainly reasonable faith, in
stark contrast to evolutionary religion faith which believes in ordered
complexity from disorder, without any ordering mechanism or outside
intelligence.
.

User: "Therion Ware"

Title: Re: Faith 01 Jun 2004 01:58:21 AM
On Mon, 31 May 2004 09:46:07 -0700 in alt.atheism, IKnowHimDoYou
(IKnowHim@leavingsoon.com (IKnowHimDoYou)) said, directing the reply
to alt.atheism

Faith

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things
not seen." Heb 11:1

Faith enters into the picture whenever we attempt to understand somethng
outside the realm of empirical observation. Even the atheist has faith;
faith that there is no God. This faith is also true for creationists.
"Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the Word of
God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do
appear" Heb 11:3. Creationist faith is certainly reasonable faith, in
stark contrast to evolutionary religion faith which believes in ordered
complexity from disorder, without any ordering mechanism or outside
intelligence.

Hummmmmm.... a tad self-serving, not to mention ignorant of about 1000
years of Christian theological thinking...
What, I wonder is the basis of your faith? What does it ultimately
resolve to?
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
Inexpensive VHS & other video to CD/DVD conversion?
See: <http://www.Video2CD.com>. 35.00 gets your video on DVD.
all posts to this email address are automatically deleted without being read.
** atheist poster child #1 ** #442.
.

User: "Geoff"

Title: Re: Faith 31 May 2004 04:40:53 PM
"IKnowHimDoYou" <IKnowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
news:IKnowHim-3105040946070001@pm8-15.kalama.com...

Even the atheist has faith;

I believe not..
.

User: "Brian Ceccarelli"

Title: Re: Faith 31 May 2004 12:40:19 PM
"IKnowHimDoYou" <IKnowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
news:IKnowHim-3105040946070001@pm8-15.kalama.com...

Faith

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things
not seen." Heb 11:1

Faith enters into the picture whenever we attempt to understand somethng
outside the realm of empirical observation . . .

IKHDY, you realize that you just contradicted Heb 11:1? The author of
Hebrews is speaking of the "evidence of things unseen." There is evidence.
EVIDENCE! There is empirical data. Upon that empirical data do we base
our faith.
IKHDY, Jesus is in the history books. Jesus had dozens of eyewitnesses.
They wrote their accounts. The entire Bible is systematic like a math book
from start to finish. It reveals its data about God to its data about Man.
Truths. It all fits. The ring of truth about the nature of man to the
supernatural. And if that is not enough, for the Christian, Jesus lives
in us. Can't you tell he's there? I can! Everybody around me also sees
it. So there is evidence. Empirical observation. Though much of it is
indirect observation, it is empirical nonetheless.
In science, gravity and wind are "not seen" either. But we can empirically
observe the effects of gravity and wind. We measure them all the time. Get
on a scale. Put up a windsock.
Likewise, faith in Jesus is like faith in gravity. You *know* it's there
though you cannot see it. You can depend on it being there.
Brian
http://www.talusmusic.coim/Bible
.
User: "John Baker"

Title: Re: Faith 31 May 2004 11:22:14 PM
"Brian Ceccarelli" <spam@talusmusic.com> wrote in message
news:76Kuc.9591$Ef3.522869@twister.southeast.rr.com...


"IKnowHimDoYou" <IKnowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
news:IKnowHim-3105040946070001@pm8-15.kalama.com...

Faith

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things
not seen." Heb 11:1

Faith enters into the picture whenever we attempt to understand somethng
outside the realm of empirical observation . . .


IKHDY, you realize that you just contradicted Heb 11:1? The author of
Hebrews is speaking of the "evidence of things unseen." There is

evidence.

EVIDENCE! There is empirical data. Upon that empirical data do we base
our faith.

What empirical data would that be? Your holy book also tells of talking
snakes, four-legged insects and cud-chewing rabbits. None of those things
exist either.
.

User: "Javier Balkenende"

Title: Re: Faith 01 Jun 2004 01:48:32 AM
First of all, I'll say that I'll maintain the reply to the alt.atheism forum
just because I don't know from where Brian Ceccarelli is reading this
thread, not for other reason, so please ignore it if you don't like this
topic.
Hello Brian:
Brian Ceccarelli wrote:

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of
things not seen." Heb 11:1
Faith enters into the picture whenever we attempt to understand
somethng outside the realm of empirical observation . . .

IKHDY, you realize that you just contradicted Heb 11:1? The author
of Hebrews is speaking of the "evidence of things unseen." There is
evidence.

If you read caresfully, it is saying that the evidence is the faith:
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, [Now faith is] the evidence
of things not seen"
And I think that this word translated evidence in the King James versions
needs some further study.
Lets see some other versions:
New International Version (NIV):
1Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not
see
here it is translated "certain"
New American Standard Bible (NASB):
1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things
not seen
"conviction"
New Life Version (NLV):
1Now faith is being sure we will get what we hope for. It is being sure of
what we cannot see
"being sure"
Contemporary English Version (CEV):
1Faith makes us sure of what we hope for and gives us proof of what we
cannot see
"gives us proof "
Young's Literal Translation (YLT):
1 And faith is of things hoped for a confidence, of matters not seen a
conviction
"a conviction"
Darby Translation (DARBY):
1 Now faith is [the] substantiating of things hoped for, [the] conviction
of things not seen.
"conviction"
New International Reader's Version (NIRV):
1 Faith is being sure of what we hope for. It is being certain of what we do
not see
"being certain"
It would also require an exhaustive investigation of the Greek word,
performing a cross reference with the same word ??????? in all the New
Testament in order to see this word in other contexts.
Reading the context of the chapter, all Hebrews 11, you can see that it is
talking about people that believed without seen, they didn't have an
evidence in order to believe.
They believed, and after that, they have seen the result, but they didn't
see an evidence before, the evidence in which they believed was just the
word of God.
Javier
.

User: "Earl Camembert"

Title: Re: Faith 31 May 2004 05:01:09 PM
On Mon, 31 May 2004 17:40:19 GMT, "Brian Ceccarelli"
<spam@talusmusic.com> wrote:


"IKnowHimDoYou" <IKnowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
news:IKnowHim-3105040946070001@pm8-15.kalama.com...

Faith

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things
not seen." Heb 11:1

Faith enters into the picture whenever we attempt to understand somethng
outside the realm of empirical observation . . .


IKHDY, you realize that you just contradicted Heb 11:1? The author of
Hebrews is speaking of the "evidence of things unseen." There is evidence.
EVIDENCE! There is empirical data. Upon that empirical data do we base
our faith.

IKHDY, Jesus is in the history books. Jesus had dozens of eyewitnesses.
They wrote their accounts. The entire Bible is systematic like a math book
from start to finish. It reveals its data about God to its data about Man.
Truths. It all fits. The ring of truth about the nature of man to the
supernatural. And if that is not enough, for the Christian, Jesus lives
in us. Can't you tell he's there? I can! Everybody around me also sees
it. So there is evidence. Empirical observation. Though much of it is
indirect observation, it is empirical nonetheless.

In science, gravity and wind are "not seen" either. But we can empirically
observe the effects of gravity and wind. We measure them all the time. Get
on a scale. Put up a windsock.

Likewise, faith in Jesus is like faith in gravity. You *know* it's there
though you cannot see it. You can depend on it being there.

What you are experiencing is the placebo effect. That is why a sugar
pill makes people feel better. Don't worry you and all the other Jesus
freaks will be together in the after life serving the followers of
Moloch.
.

User: "SkArcher"

Title: Re: Faith 31 May 2004 04:39:23 PM
On Mon, 31 May 2004 17:40:19 GMT, Brian Ceccarelli <spam@talusmusic.com>
wrote:

Likewise, faith in Jesus is like faith in gravity. You *know* it's
there though you cannot see it. You can depend on it being there.

So if you throw a stone into the air and pray that it stays there, will it
come down?
--
SkArcher - A.A#590
Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information
available. - Benford's law of controversy.
.

User: "Carol Lee Smith"

Title: Re: Faith 31 May 2004 04:33:28 PM
On Mon, 31 May 2004, Brian Ceccarelli wrote:

IKHDY, Jesus is in the history books.

Which "history books"?

Jesus had dozens of eyewitnesses.

Their names? Evidence of their accounts?

They wrote their accounts.

Really? What accounts would that be?
Anything extra-Biblical?

The entire Bible is systematic like a math book from start to finish.

Oh.
So you are using the Bible as proof of the Bible?
What about the Book of Mormon?

It reveals its data about God to its data about Man.

Data?
What data?

Truths.

What Truths would that be?

It all fits. The ring of truth about the nature of man to the
supernatural.

The ring of truth?
Is that different from "The Truth" ??

And if that is not enough, for the Christian, Jesus lives in us.

Sounds like faith to me.
Guess you don't need real evidence or real proof or real truth to have
faith.

Can't you tell he's there? I can! Everybody around me also sees
it. So there is evidence. Empirical observation. Though much of it is
indirect observation, it is empirical nonetheless.

I don't see anything. Care to help us out here?

In science, gravity and wind are "not seen" either.

You see their effects.

But we can empirically observe the effects of gravity and wind. We measure them all the time. Get
on a scale. Put up a windsock.

Oh. So we agree on something, at least.

Likewise, faith in Jesus is like faith in gravity. You *know* it's there
though you cannot see it. You can depend on it being there.

Faith.
Right.
.

User: "Vic Sagerquist"

Title: Re: Faith 31 May 2004 02:46:49 PM
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Brian Ceccarelli:

IKHDY, Jesus is in the history books.

No, he is not. If you are referring to Josephus, that is a forgery.

Jesus had dozens of
eyewitnesses.

The biblebook says this. Nowhere outside of your religion does it say
this.

They wrote their accounts.

The books of the NT were written a generation after the event supposedly
took place. These are not "eye" witnesses.

The entire Bible is
systematic like a math book from start to finish.

Pi = 3? No wonder "true" christians fall behind in higher learning.

It reveals its data
about God to its data about Man.

All it reveals is a story concocted over centuries to explain the things
that men feared. By inventing a "creator" they were lulled into a sense
of understanding, with one vital exception. Death. The fear of death
required them to invent a savior that would grant them eternal life.
Unfortunately, they were not very creative, so they borrowed a few
saviors from other pagan myths, and assigned these properties to
Biblejesus.

Truths.

Lies.

It all fits.

When properly brainwashed, at an early enough age, people will believe
all sorts of nonsense without question.

The ring of
truth about the nature of man to the supernatural.

Of course you can't actually produce any of this empirical evidence you
mentioned above, for the supernatural.

And if that is
not enough, for the Christian, Jesus lives in us.

Do you think surgery is an option?

Can't you tell he's there?

The only place he exists is in your imagination.

I can! Everybody around me also sees it.

It's not difficult to find other brainwashed christians, who all believe
this nonssense.

So there is
evidence.

Non-sequitur, this is your assertion. The fact that people around you
that have been religiously indoctrinated as you have misinterpret your
emotions as the presence of a jesus is not empirical evidence.

Empirical observation. Though much of it is indirect
observation, it is empirical nonetheless.

Please supply us with your definition of "indirect observation". Is it
like the difference between reality and a dream?
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
It's my funeral and I'll fry if I want to...
.
User: "Nico Demusopelous"

Title: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) 03 Jun 2004 09:34:44 PM
Vic Sagerquist <address@withheld.com> wrote in message news:<Xns94FA82300C1E9vicman@63.240.76.16>...


The entire Bible is
systematic like a math book from start to finish.


Pi = 3? No wonder "true" christians fall behind in higher learning.

Ummm, does the Bible actually say p = 3? No, it does not. It refers to
a shape that is 30 units around, and 10 units across. Suppose I took a
man who was a tenured professor in Mathematics at MIT to a pizza shop,
handed him a tape measure, and asked him to take the circumference of
a pizza pie as well as the distance across (the diameter of the pi).
If we divide the figures he comes up with, and they don't come out to
pi, should he lose his job for not knowing the value of pi? Or should
we conclude that the pizza pie did not form a perfect circle? The same
goes for the relevant Biblical verses in Kings and Chronicles: we
could just as sensibly conclude that the shape being described does
not form a perfect circle.
.
User: "quibbler"

Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) 04 Jun 2004 07:16:58 PM
(Nico Demusopelous) wrote in message news:<2c68d44e.0406031834.5ef63eb@posting.google.com>...

Vic Sagerquist <address@withheld.com> wrote in message news:<Xns94FA82300C1E9vicman@63.240.76.16>...


The entire Bible is
systematic like a math book from start to finish.


Pi = 3? No wonder "true" christians fall behind in higher learning.


Ummm, does the Bible actually say p = 3? No, it does not. It refers to
a shape that is 30 units around, and 10 units across.

That simply introduces another errors. A circle is the set of points
of constant radius from a fixed center. If the shape is elliptical as
you suggest then the bible is wrong to describe only one breadth for
the ellipse. Describing only one measurement suggests that the bible
author believed the diameter was the same no matter which way it was
measured, which would be true of a circle, but not an ellipse.
Now just to keep the math simple take the circumference of the ellipse
to be
C=(pi)*sqrt(2*(a^2+b^2)). A major axis breadth of 10 means a = 5 and
C is given as 30. So doing the math you should get that the minor
axis is around 9 units. This still means that the bible authors don't
understand that there is a difference of about 1 unit between the
major and minor axis. If they made wheels like this then they would
end up bobbling up and down by one unit twice per revolution. Hey, no
wonder Jehu drove so crazily :).

we
could just as sensibly conclude that the shape being described does
not form a perfect circle.

We could also sensibly dismiss much of the rest of the bible. For
example, when it says Jesus died on the cross it could have just as
easily been a misdiagnosed coma, due to the imprecise medical
standards of the day. Once you admit that the bible is vague and
unreliable then we can't place a lot of stock in any of the things it
tells us.
.
User: "Mike Painter"

Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) 04 Jun 2004 08:25:50 PM
"quibbler" <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:115e8d4.0406041616.6ddfde15@posting.google.com...

nicodemus-asks@jesusanswers.com (Nico Demusopelous) wrote in message

news:<2c68d44e.0406031834.5ef63eb@posting.google.com>...

Vic Sagerquist <address@withheld.com> wrote in message

news:<Xns94FA82300C1E9vicman@63.240.76.16>...


The entire Bible is
systematic like a math book from start to finish.


Pi = 3? No wonder "true" christians fall behind in higher learning.


Ummm, does the Bible actually say p = 3? No, it does not. It refers to
a shape that is 30 units around, and 10 units across.


That simply introduces another errors. A circle is the set of points
of constant radius from a fixed center. If the shape is elliptical as
you suggest then the bible is wrong to describe only one breadth for
the ellipse. Describing only one measurement suggests that the bible
author believed the diameter was the same no matter which way it was
measured, which would be true of a circle, but not an ellipse.
Now just to keep the math simple take the circumference of the ellipse
to be
C=(pi)*sqrt(2*(a^2+b^2)). A major axis breadth of 10 means a = 5 and
C is given as 30. So doing the math you should get that the minor
axis is around 9 units. This still means that the bible authors don't
understand that there is a difference of about 1 unit between the
major and minor axis. If they made wheels like this then they would
end up bobbling up and down by one unit twice per revolution. Hey, no
wonder Jehu drove so crazily :).

There are constant diameter shapes that are not circles which adds to the
mix. "In fact any regular shape with an odd number of sides-a pentagon,
heptagon and so on-can be rounded off to create a shape, which has a
constant diameter." E.G. The Reuleaux triangle
.
User: "quibbler"

Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) 05 Jun 2004 08:10:54 AM
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:<yi9wc.65303$o96.17917@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>...

"quibbler" <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:115e8d4.0406041616.6ddfde15@posting.google.com...

nicodemus-asks@jesusanswers.com (Nico Demusopelous) wrote in message

news:<2c68d44e.0406031834.5ef63eb@posting.google.com>...

Vic Sagerquist <address@withheld.com> wrote in message

news:<Xns94FA82300C1E9vicman@63.240.76.16>...


The entire Bible is
systematic like a math book from start to finish.


Pi = 3? No wonder "true" christians fall behind in higher learning.


Ummm, does the Bible actually say p = 3? No, it does not. It refers to
a shape that is 30 units around, and 10 units across.


That simply introduces another errors. A circle is the set of points
of constant radius from a fixed center. If the shape is elliptical as
you suggest then the bible is wrong to describe only one breadth for
the ellipse. Describing only one measurement suggests that the bible
author believed the diameter was the same no matter which way it was
measured, which would be true of a circle, but not an ellipse.
Now just to keep the math simple take the circumference of the ellipse
to be
C=(pi)*sqrt(2*(a^2+b^2)). A major axis breadth of 10 means a = 5 and
C is given as 30. So doing the math you should get that the minor
axis is around 9 units. This still means that the bible authors don't
understand that there is a difference of about 1 unit between the
major and minor axis. If they made wheels like this then they would
end up bobbling up and down by one unit twice per revolution. Hey, no
wonder Jehu drove so crazily :).


There are constant diameter shapes that are not circles which adds to the
mix.

According to Barbier's Theorem all shapes of constant width have
perimeter pi*width. See
http://www.cut-the-knot.org/ctk/August2001.shtml#Barbier
Therefore, the bible still appears to have a pi problem :)
.

User: "Rolleston"

Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) 05 Jun 2004 09:51:29 AM
Mike Painter wrote:

There are constant diameter shapes that are not circles which adds to the
mix. "In fact any regular shape with an odd number of sides-a pentagon,
heptagon and so on-can be rounded off to create a shape, which has a
constant diameter." E.G. The Reuleaux triangle

.... and the 20p coin:
http://www.royalmint.com/talk/images/20pence.gif
R.
.

User: "duke"

Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) 05 Jun 2004 02:47:21 PM
On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 01:25:50 GMT, "Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

There are constant diameter shapes that are not circles which adds to the
mix. "In fact any regular shape with an odd number of sides-a pentagon,
heptagon and so on-can be rounded off to create a shape, which has a
constant diameter." E.G. The Reuleaux triangle

Haahaahaahaahaahaa.
Are you trying to impress quib, or him you?
duke
*****
John 6
53Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless
you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his
blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my
flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I
will raise him up at the last day.
*****
.


User: "duke"

Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) 05 Jun 2004 02:46:08 PM
On 4 Jun 2004 17:16:58 -0700,
(quibbler) wrote:

That simply introduces another errors. A circle is the set of points
of constant radius from a fixed center. If the shape is elliptical as
you suggest then the bible is wrong to describe only one breadth for
the ellipse.

quib, what a blithering idiot you are.

Describing only one measurement suggests that the bible
author believed the diameter was the same no matter which way it was
measured, which would be true of a circle, but not an ellipse.

Actually he did it to tempt your mind. He had you specifically in mind in my estimation.

Now just to keep the math simple take the circumference of the ellipse
to be
C=(pi)*sqrt(2*(a^2+b^2)). A major axis breadth of 10 means a = 5 and
C is given as 30. So doing the math you should get that the minor
axis is around 9 units. This still means that the bible authors don't
understand that there is a difference of about 1 unit between the
major and minor axis. If they made wheels like this then they would
end up bobbling up and down by one unit twice per revolution. Hey, no
wonder Jehu drove so crazily :).

we
could just as sensibly conclude that the shape being described does
not form a perfect circle.

How accurate must a circle be to be a perfect one?.
Actually, I see it more as a case of imperfect measuring. Now that makes much more sense
than your silly ideas.

We could also sensibly dismiss much of the rest of the bible. For
example, when it says Jesus died on the cross it could have just as
easily been a misdiagnosed coma, due to the imprecise medical
standards of the day.

Especially so when they speared him in the chest after all he had already been thru.

Once you admit that the bible is vague and
unreliable then we can't place a lot of stock in any of the things it
tells us.

You can in the parts that are the revealed inerrant word of God. Now measuring a circle
very accurately, he did you a favor by not asking you to do the measuring.
duke
*****
John 6
53Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless
you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his
blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my
flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I
will raise him up at the last day.
*****
.
User: "quibbler"

Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) 05 Jun 2004 10:13:57 PM
In article <gb84c09rrl86lmvl3udtkrhdcki88a60sn@4ax.com>,
duckgumbo32@cox.net says...

On 4 Jun 2004 17:16:58 -0700,

(quibbler) wrote:

That simply introduces another errors. A circle is the set of points
of constant radius from a fixed center. If the shape is elliptical as
you suggest then the bible is wrong to describe only one breadth for
the ellipse.


quib, what a blithering idiot you are.

As usual you make baseless, one sentence assertions which fail to
address the substantive issues that I've raised. Your avoidance of the
issues and use of unsupportable invectives demonstrate your manifest
incompetence at carrying on normal, intelligent conversation. I've
rather clearly proven myself a far better informed and more intelligent
person than yourself. But then again pretty much everyone is far
smarter and better informed than you are. In any event you've
thoroughly discredited yourself in the eyes of most people who take the
time to talk to you, and you should feel some measure of shame about
this. You clearly have no intellectual integrity or decency.


Describing only one measurement suggests that the bible
author believed the diameter was the same no matter which way it was
measured, which would be true of a circle, but not an ellipse.


Actually he did it to tempt your mind.

LOL. You pretend to know the motive of the scribe writing 1 Kings.
You're making an ***** of yourself again.

He had you specifically in mind in my estimation.

As usual, your estimation is worthless. Of course you've backed it up
with nothing. I would assume you're joking, but it's somewhat hard to
tell, since even your allegedly "serious" comments are usually guffaw
worthy.


Now just to keep the math simple take the circumference of the ellipse
to be
C=(pi)*sqrt(2*(a^2+b^2)). A major axis breadth of 10 means a = 5 and
C is given as 30. So doing the math you should get that the minor
axis is around 9 units. This still means that the bible authors don't
understand that there is a difference of about 1 unit between the
major and minor axis. If they made wheels like this then they would
end up bobbling up and down by one unit twice per revolution. Hey, no
wonder Jehu drove so crazily :).


we
could just as sensibly conclude that the shape being described does
not form a perfect circle.


How accurate must a circle be to be a perfect one?.

I didn't make the statement you're asking about. However, a circle must
be infinitely precise. This is no problem, since it's an abstract
geometrical rule.


Actually, I see it more as a case of imperfect measuring.

Nobody gives a ***** how you see it because you have not shown that your
opinion merits any attention. If the measuring was imperfect then it
still results in the bible containing counterfactual and thus errant
statements. This, in turn, suggests that we may not be able to rely
upon many other potentially errant assertions contained in the bible.

Now that makes much more sense
than your silly ideas.

I proposed nothing silly. I stated that a circle or any other constant
width shape must still have a perimeter of pi*width, which is perfectly
correct. I even cited the appropriate theorem, which is far beyond your
feeble mathematical abilities. If the bible only states one width then
that suggests that the object had a constant width, since otherwise it
would introduce imprecision and inaccuracy into the bible to ignore
this other relevant data. Naturally, you haven't thought about the
implications of your laughably naive proposals.


We could also sensibly dismiss much of the rest of the bible. For
example, when it says Jesus died on the cross it could have just as
easily been a misdiagnosed coma, due to the imprecise medical
standards of the day.


Especially so when they speared him in the chest after all he had already been thru.

There's no guarantee that it killed him. The bible claimed that jebus
performed many feats, such as fasting for 40 days and nights, which
could kill other men. Therefore, we cannot suppose that a spear thrust
would necessarily kill him either. Certainly other people have been
impaled and lived for considerable lengths of time.


Once you admit that the bible is vague and
unreliable then we can't place a lot of stock in any of the things it
tells us.


You can in the parts that are the revealed inerrant word of God.

You've shown no evidence that any parts of the bible are the word of God
or that they are inerrant. The fact that there are apparent errors in
passages like 1 Kings 7:23 suggests that many other parts of the bible
are not to be trusted either.

Now measuring a circle
very accurately, he did you a favor by not asking you to do the measuring.

Your nonsensical statement gets you nowhere as usual. The bible is
obligated to be accurate, which it was not, when it suggested that the
ratio of circumference to diameter in this circular object was 3. If it
contains inaccurate measurement then these are still errors. Rounded
off values are more precisely called *round off errors*. Merely stating
that the people in question didn't accurately measure does not save the
bible from the justifiable charge of errancy. You clearly need to get a
clue.
--
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
.
User: "Mike Painter"

Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) 06 Jun 2004 12:32:42 AM
"quibbler" <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1b2c39d25337fbd7989824@news.individual.net...

In article <gb84c09rrl86lmvl3udtkrhdcki88a60sn@4ax.com>,
duckgumbo32@cox.net says...


How accurate must a circle be to be a perfect one?.


I didn't make the statement you're asking about. However, a circle must
be infinitely precise. This is no problem, since it's an abstract
geometrical rule.

Earl claims to be an engineer yet does not seem to be able to use the
correct word in his question.
.
User: "duke"

Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) 06 Jun 2004 03:44:25 PM
On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 05:32:42 GMT, "Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Earl claims to be an engineer yet does not seem to be able to use the
correct word in his question.

Quib can't answer. Can you mikey?
duke
*****
I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear
it now. When he comes, the Holy Spirit will declare
to you the things that are coming. John 16:12-15.
*****
.
User: "Mike Painter"

Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) 06 Jun 2004 05:45:20 PM
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:7g07c0hl098j8i66ffv712p7kkig8lnrch@4ax.com...

On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 05:32:42 GMT, "Mike Painter"

<mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:


Earl claims to be an engineer yet does not seem to be able to use the
correct word in his question.


Quib can't answer. Can you mikey?

It was not a question, it was a statement. You used the wrong word.
.

User: "quibbler"

Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) 06 Jun 2004 09:42:55 PM
In article <7g07c0hl098j8i66ffv712p7kkig8lnrch@4ax.com>,
duckgumbo32@cox.net says...

On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 05:32:42 GMT, "Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Earl claims to be an engineer yet does not seem to be able to use the
correct word in his question.


Quib can't answer. Can you mikey?

I answered you perfectly, though your idiotic comments merited little
response to begin with. I've already stated the definition of a circle
and the requirement that it have infinite precision. After all, by some
analytical views a circle can be thought of as an infinitely sided,
regular polygon. Naturally, you've failed to comprehend what has been
said, but nevertheless I have provided the relevant information to
continue to show that the bible was unjustified in making it's claim
about circumference for a fixed diameter.
--
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
.
User: "Mike Painter"

Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) 06 Jun 2004 10:21:31 PM
"quibbler" <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1b2d841fec183016989837@news.individual.net...

In article <7g07c0hl098j8i66ffv712p7kkig8lnrch@4ax.com>,
duckgumbo32@cox.net says...

On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 05:32:42 GMT, "Mike Painter"

<mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:


Earl claims to be an engineer yet does not seem to be able to use the
correct word in his question.


Quib can't answer. Can you mikey?


I answered you perfectly, though your idiotic comments merited little
response to begin with. I've already stated the definition of a circle
and the requirement that it have infinite precision. After all, by some
analytical views a circle can be thought of as an infinitely sided,
regular polygon. Naturally, you've failed to comprehend what has been
said, but nevertheless I have provided the relevant information to
continue to show that the bible was unjustified in making it's claim
about circumference for a fixed diameter.

.
User: "duke"

Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) 08 Jun 2004 05:01:20 AM
On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 03:21:31 GMT, "Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Earl claims to be an engineer yet does not seem to be able to use the
correct word in his question.

Quib can't answer. Can you mikey?

I answered you perfectly, though your idiotic comments merited little
response to begin with. I've already stated the definition of a circle
and the requirement that it have infinite precision. After all, by some
analytical views a circle can be thought of as an infinitely sided,
regular polygon. Naturally, you've failed to comprehend what has been
said, but nevertheless I have provided the relevant information to
continue to show that the bible was unjustified in making it's claim
about circumference for a fixed diameter.


Good answer, mikey.
duke
*****
I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear
it now. When he comes, the Holy Spirit will declare
to you the things that are coming. John 16:12-15.
*****
.
User: "Mike Painter"

Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) 08 Jun 2004 06:06:09 PM
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:ai3bc05qcmf3u2qos8gcn9apb88vgu7ogq@4ax.com...

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 03:21:31 GMT, "Mike Painter"

<mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:


Earl claims to be an engineer yet does not seem to be able to use

the

correct word in his question.


Quib can't answer. Can you mikey?


I answered you perfectly, though your idiotic comments merited little
response to begin with. I've already stated the definition of a circle
and the requirement that it have infinite precision. After all, by

some

analytical views a circle can be thought of as an infinitely sided,
regular polygon. Naturally, you've failed to comprehend what has been
said, but nevertheless I have provided the relevant information to
continue to show that the bible was unjustified in making it's claim
about circumference for a fixed diameter.




Good answer, mikey.

Try to keep up Earl,that is not my answer. But I agree you don't comprehend
what has been said.
.
User: "duke"

Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) 10 Jun 2004 04:34:01 AM
On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 23:06:09 GMT, "Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Good answer, mikey.

Try to keep up Earl,that is not my answer. But I agree you don't comprehend
what has been said.

No answer from you is a good answer, mikey.
duke
*****
I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear
it now. When he comes, the Holy Spirit will declare
to you the things that are coming. John 16:12-15.
*****
.




User: "duke"

Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) 08 Jun 2004 05:00:14 AM
On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 20:42:55 -0600, quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:

Quib can't answer. Can you mikey?

I answered you perfectly, though your idiotic comments merited little
response to begin with. I've already stated the definition of a circle
and the requirement that it have infinite precision. After all, by some
analytical views a circle can be thought of as an infinitely sided,
regular polygon. Naturally, you've failed to comprehend what has been
said, but nevertheless I have provided the relevant information to
continue to show that the bible was unjustified in making it's claim
about circumference for a fixed diameter.

The information you provided exists in your mind, quib. You're a child in math. You're a
child in the bible.
And mikey makes a good children's companion for you.
duke
*****
I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear
it now. When he comes, the Holy Spirit will declare
to you the things that are coming. John 16:12-15.
*****
.




User: "duke"

Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) 06 Jun 2004 01:44:40 PM
On Sat, 5 Jun 2004 21:13:57 -0600, quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:

quib, what a blithering idiot you are.

As usual you make baseless, one sentence assertions which fail to
address the substantive issues that I've raised.

The issue is that you're an idiot, and trying hard to prove it.

Your avoidance of the
issues and use of unsupportable invectives demonstrate your manifest
incompetence at carrying on normal, intelligent conversation. I've
rather clearly proven myself a far better informed and more intelligent
person than yourself.

My doorknob is laughing at your incompetence and discussion and comprehension..

But then again pretty much everyone is far
smarter and better informed than you are.

That'll be the day. Easy to say, but you never say anything more substantial.

In any event you've
thoroughly discredited yourself in the eyes of most people who take the
time to talk to you, and you should feel some measure of shame about
this. You clearly have no intellectual integrity or decency.

If you are an example, none of you can discuss anything.

Describing only one measurement suggests that the bible
author believed the diameter was the same no matter which way it was
measured, which would be true of a circle, but not an ellipse.

Actually he did it to tempt your mind.

LOL. You pretend to know the motive of the scribe writing 1 Kings.
You're making an ***** of yourself again.

Better than an idiot like you suggesting that the bible is saying that pi = 3. Only the
stupid such as you would even suggest such a silly idea.

He had you specifically in mind in my estimation.

As usual, your estimation is worthless. Of course you've backed it up
with nothing. I would assume you're joking, but it's somewhat hard to
tell, since even your allegedly "serious" comments are usually guffaw
worthy.

Back up what with what, idiot? A crude circle crudely measured in diameter and
circumference explains everything. I'm sure that's over your head.

How accurate must a circle be to be a perfect one?.

I didn't make the statement you're asking about. However, a circle must
be infinitely precise. This is no problem, since it's an abstract
geometrical rule.

And the average sheepherder of a few thousand years ago was able to make such a
measurement.........how?

Actually, I see it more as a case of imperfect measuring.

Nobody gives a ***** how you see it because you have not shown that your
opinion merits any attention.

You made a stupid ***** of yourself on this one, quib.

If the measuring was imperfect then it
still results in the bible containing counterfactual and thus errant
statements.

My doorknob is laughing hard at you now, quib.

This, in turn, suggests that we may not be able to rely
upon many other potentially errant assertions contained in the bible.

The only parts inerrant are the revelations of God. Do you really think that God revealed
pi = 3 in the bible, quib? Tell the world, quib. This should be fun.

Now that makes much more sense
than your silly ideas.

I proposed nothing silly. I stated that a circle or any other constant
width shape must still have a perimeter of pi*width, which is perfectly
correct.

Right, any high school teenager knows that. But none but you profess pi = 3 in the bible.

I even cited the appropriate theorem, which is far beyond your
feeble mathematical abilities. If the bible only states one width then
that suggests that the object had a constant width, since otherwise it
would introduce imprecision and inaccuracy into the bible to ignore
this other relevant data. Naturally, you haven't thought about the
implications of your laughably naive proposals.

Wow, you are totally weird.

Especially so when they speared him in the chest after all he had already been thru.

There's no guarantee that it killed him. The bible claimed that jebus
performed many feats, such as fasting for 40 days and nights, which
could kill other men. Therefore, we cannot suppose that a spear thrust
would necessarily kill him either. Certainly other people have been
impaled and lived for considerable lengths of time.

Yeah, and maybe a shotgun blast in the mouth might not kill someone either, quib.
fake botox must be real proud of you.

Once you admit that the bible is vague and
unreliable then we can't place a lot of stock in any of the things it
tells us.

You can in the parts that are the revealed inerrant word of God.

You've shown no evidence that any parts of the bible are the word of God
or that they are inerrant. The fact that there are apparent errors in
passages like 1 Kings 7:23 suggests that many other parts of the bible
are not to be trusted either.

Does the statement that the only guaranteed inerrant parts of the bible are the
revelations of God?

Now measuring a circle
very accurately, he did you a favor by not asking you to do the measuring.

Your nonsensical statement gets you nowhere as usual. The bible is
obligated to be accurate, which it was not, when it suggested that the
ratio of circumference to diameter in this circular object was 3.

You're a certified kid with a child's mind, quib.
duke
*****
I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear
it now. When he comes, the Holy Spirit will declare
to you the things that are coming. John 16:12-15.
*****
.
User: "quibbler"

Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) 06 Jun 2004 10:25:59 PM
In article <bho6c05kfgi0hfomjvkpu9mj9ctdhf0s3c@4ax.com>,
duckgumbo32@cox.net says...

On Sat, 5 Jun 2004 21:13:57 -0600, quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:

quib, what a blithering idiot you are.


As usual you make baseless, one sentence assertions which fail to
address the substantive issues that I've raised.


The issue is that you're an idiot,

I'm certainly far smarter and better educated than you, but, in fact,
this is not the issue. Examine the subject of the thread next time, you
stupid sack of *****.

and trying hard to prove it.

You've already proven that you're an idiot, whereas I've proven that I'm
your intellectual superior in every conceivable respect.


Your avoidance of the
issues and use of unsupportable invectives demonstrate your manifest
incompetence at carrying on normal, intelligent conversation. I've
rather clearly proven myself a far better informed and more intelligent
person than yourself.


My doorknob is laughing at your incompetence

You really need to lay off the drugs, Earl.

and discussion and comprehension..

But then again pretty much everyone is far
smarter and better informed than you are.


That'll be the day.

It's that day every day of your life, dipshit.

Easy to say, but you never say anything more substantial.

I've certainly made substantial contributions, unlike your baseless
insult flinging. I've shown that any constant diameter object would
still have a perimeter of pi*diameter, which means that the bible
couldn't possibly be right about the dimensions of diameter and
circumference specified.


In any event you've
thoroughly discredited yourself in the eyes of most people who take the
time to talk to you, and you should feel some measure of shame about
this. You clearly have no intellectual integrity or decency.


If you are an example, none of you can discuss anything.

I've succeeded in discussing the issue, whereas pretty much all you've
done is throw about false and ridiculous accusations with neither logic
or evidence to back you up.


Describing only one measurement suggests that the bible
author believed the diameter was the same no matter which way it was
measured, which would be true of a circle, but not an ellipse.

Actually he did it to tempt your mind.


LOL. You pretend to know the motive of the scribe writing 1 Kings.
You're making an ***** of yourself again.


Better than an idiot like you suggesting that the bible is saying that pi = 3.

I correctly pointed out that this is the implication of their
circumference a diameter measurements if the object has constant
diameter, as described. There may be other interpretations of 1 Kings
7:23, but when coupled with 2 Chron 4:2, it suggests that we are dealing
with an object "round all about and therefore circular.

Only the
stupid such as you would even suggest such a silly idea.

It's your stupid bible that has suggested the silly idea. We're merely
pointing how the fact that they are quite silly in their feeble grasp of
elementary geometry.


He had you specifically in mind in my estimation.

As usual, your estimation is worthless. Of course you've backed it up
with nothing. I would assume you're joking, but it's somewhat hard to
tell, since even your allegedly "serious" comments are usually guffaw
worthy.


Back up what with what, idiot?

You're apparently talking to yourself again Earl. You really need to
stop that. No go back and try to read what I said. you need to back up
your "estimation". In particular you need to establish how you know that
the object was "imperfectly measured". Of course that still doesn't
relieve the bible of inerrancy, but is a confession that it is errant
through inaccurate measurement. You're simply confessing that the bible
contained false information without realizing the significance of your
damning admission.

A crude circle crudely measured in diameter and
circumference explains everything.

No, it explains nothing at all. If the circle was inaccurately measured
and the data was recorded in the bible then the bible recorded false and
erroneous data, making it an errant document. Furthermore, you have
absolutely no way to know what kind of accuracy was used in the
measurements in question. However, even if they were crude and rounded
off, they still introduced "round off error", thereby proving that the
bible is a source of misinformation and errancy.

I'm sure that's over your head.

No, you simply refuse to analyze the implications of your idiotic claim.
conceding inaccurate measurement techniques proves my point for me.
You're the one who is in way over your tiny, pin head.


How accurate must a circle be to be a perfect one?.

I didn't make the statement you're asking about. However, a circle must
be infinitely precise. This is no problem, since it's an abstract
geometrical rule.


And the average sheepherder of a few thousand years ago was able to make such a
measurement.........how?

That's not my problem. Unless they got it perfect then the bible
contains errors. We don't know that they made a measurement in some
cases. "God" could have simply told them the proper dimensions.
However, in this case it appears that their dimensions were not accurate
for any constant diameter object. It is impossible for both of the
dimensions of this constant diameter object to both be integers.


Actually, I see it more as a case of imperfect measuring.


Nobody gives a ***** how you see it because you have not shown that your
opinion merits any attention.


You made a stupid ***** of yourself on this one, quib.

Nope, you're the one making an ***** of yourself again and again. You
continue to prove my points for me and provide no support for your own
ridiculous claims.


If the measuring was imperfect then it
still results in the bible containing counterfactual and thus errant
statements.


My doorknob is laughing hard at you now, quib.

Try making some sense for once.


This, in turn, suggests that we may not be able to rely
upon many other potentially errant assertions contained in the bible.


The only parts inerrant are the revelations of God.

You don't know that these were not revealed information. It talks about
measurement, but perhaps the scribes simple had it revealed to them that
certain dimensions were indeed accurate. In any event, the dimensions
in 1 Kings 7:23 are inaccurate for the circumference of any constant
diameter object.

Do you really think that God revealed
pi = 3 in the bible, quib?

The bible made a claim about objects which sound to be entirely
circular. However, the dimensions do not pan out, resulting in biblical
errancy. I don't really care what the Hebrew scribes of your false
religion thought was revealed to them. They clearly did not have
accurate rules of geometry revealed in this particular case.

Tell the world, quib. This should be fun.

You are incapable of any serious reading comprehension or analysis
anyway, so I doubt that you'll have any fun at all. I've already had
plenty of fun at your expense, by exposing your laughable grasp of
geometry and standards for biblical errancy. Your attempt to restrict
biblical inerrancy to revelations is also a hoot, as is your suggestion
that you know the intentions of the biblical authors here.


Now that makes much more sense
than your silly ideas.


I proposed nothing silly. I stated that a circle or any other constant
width shape must still have a perimeter of pi*width, which is perfectly
correct.


Right, any high school teenager knows that.

Few, including yourself understand the implications of pi being an
irrational number or pi*being the circumference of this circle. You
certainly can't honestly claim to have been familiar with Barbier's
theorem before I stated the result. Few "high school teenagers",
including mental teenagers like yourself, are aware of non-circular,
constant width objects or how to find their perimeters. Many of these
are also not aware of how one finds the perimeter of ellipses, which I
also demonstrated.

But none but you profess pi = 3 in the bible.

I'm only stating that the bible's professed ratio of circumference to
diameter, which is the most common way pi is defined, cannot be accurate
with respect to the circumference of the constant diameter object. The
dimensions are inconsistent with what we know about constant diameter
objects, which draws into doubt the bible's assertion that the object
was truly "round all about" or that it was actually measured at all.


I even cited the appropriate theorem, which is far beyond your
feeble mathematical abilities. If the bible only states one width then
that suggests that the object had a constant width, since otherwise it
would introduce imprecision and inaccuracy into the bible to ignore
this other relevant data. Naturally, you haven't thought about the
implications of your laughably naive proposals.


Wow, you are totally weird.

More vacuous comments from Earl. That's not much of a surprise.


Especially so when they speared him in the chest after all he had already been thru.


There's no guarantee that it killed him. The bible claimed that jebus
performed many feats, such as fasting for 40 days and nights, which
could kill other men. Therefore, we cannot suppose that a spear thrust
would necessarily kill him either. Certainly other people have been
impaled and lived for considerable lengths of time.


Yeah, and maybe a shotgun blast in the mouth might not kill someone either, quib.

That's irrelevant, as usual, but of course, we can't be sure that a
shotgun blast will always kill the victim.


fake botox must be real proud of you.

Draft dodging, drug head georgie is probably proud of you as well.



Once you admit that the bible is vague and
unreliable then we can't place a lot of stock in any of the things it
tells us.

You can in the parts that are the revealed inerrant word of God.


You've shown no evidence that any parts of the bible are the word of God
or that they are inerrant. The fact that there are apparent errors in
passages like 1 Kings 7:23 suggests that many other parts of the bible
are not to be trusted either.


Does the statement that the only guaranteed inerrant parts of the bible are the
revelations of God?

Establish where you have derived this mantra. Since when does inerrancy
only apply to "revelations"? How do you determine what might or might
not have been revealed?


Now measuring a circle
very accurately, he did you a favor by not asking you to do the measuring.

Your nonsensical statement gets you nowhere as usual. The bible is
obligated to be accurate, which it was not, when it suggested that the
ratio of circumference to diameter in this circular object was 3.


You're a certified kid with a child's mind, quib.

However, as usual, I've proven myself to be far smarter than you, which
is quite easy to do.
--
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
.
User: "duke"

Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) 07 Jun 2004 06:01:16 PM
On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 21:25:59 -0600, quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:

The issue is that you're an idiot,

I'm certainly far smarter and better educated than you

That is out of the question. You don't even come close to showing that.

, but, in fact,
this is not the issue. Examine the subject of the thread next time, you
stupid sack of *****.

Aw, quibbie, be nice.

If you are an example, none of you can discuss anything.

I've succeeded in discussing the issue, whereas pretty much all you've
done is throw about false and ridiculous accusations with neither logic
or evidence to back you up.

That's what YOU do.

Better than an idiot like you suggesting that the bible is saying that pi = 3.

I correctly pointed out that this is the implication of their
circumference a diameter measurements if the object has constant
diameter, as described. There may be other interpretations of 1 Kings
7:23, but when coupled with 2 Chron 4:2, it suggests that we are dealing
with an object "round all about and therefore circular.

Haahaahaa - you are a jerk.
Think measurement accuracy, quibbie. It's really a simple answer.

You're apparently talking to yourself again Earl. You really need to
stop that. No go back and try to read what I said. you need to back up
your "estimation". In particular you need to establish how you know that
the object was "imperfectly measured".

No I don't. But I'll give you a clue, their measurements were not that accurate.
f course that still doesn't

relieve the bible of inerrancy,

You don't even know what bible inerrancy means.

No, it explains nothing at all. If the circle was inaccurately measured
and the data was recorded in the bible then the bible recorded false and
erroneous data,

You idiot. It's sad to be making fun of someone as ignorant as you.
Oh well, enough of your silliness. Rest snipped unread.
duke
*****
I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear
it now. When he comes, the Holy Spirit will declare
to you the things that are coming. John 16:12-15.
*****
.
User: "Mike Painter"

Title: Re: Pi = 3 according to the Bible? (was: Faith) 07 Jun 2004 06:36:49 PM
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:ffs9c0t53qt7rhtopfgvpgnvcs2ur33k3i@4ax.com...

On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 21:25:59 -0600, quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:

<snip>

Oh well, enough of your silliness. Rest snipped unread.


This show Earl to be what we say he is.
.











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