| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Noyb" |
| Date: |
12 Jan 2004 01:44:17 PM |
| Object: |
fallacies of the bible |
A friend tried to tell me that the bible was true and without error and blah
blah blah. After laughing for a bit I rambled off a couple famous fallacies
of the bible. I know there are a ton but I'm curious what some of everyone's
favorites are.
.
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: fallacies of the bible |
12 Jan 2004 10:35:38 PM |
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"Noyb" <zarwell@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:lOCMb.7595$RB4.5548@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com:
A friend tried to tell me that the bible was true and without error
and blah blah blah. After laughing for a bit I rambled off a couple
famous fallacies of the bible. I know there are a ton but I'm curious
what some of everyone's favorites are.
Maybe it would be easier if someone could list the parts of the bible that
are true and without error or fallacy?
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political institution for the control of
people's thoughts, lives, and actions; based on
ancient myths and superstitions perpetrated through
generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.
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| User: "David Vestal" |
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| Title: Re: fallacies of the bible |
12 Jan 2004 01:54:19 PM |
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"Noyb" <zarwell@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:lOCMb.7595$RB4.5548@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com:
A friend tried to tell me that the bible was true and without error
and blah blah blah. After laughing for a bit I rambled off a couple
famous fallacies of the bible. I know there are a ton but I'm curious
what some of everyone's favorites are.
Personal favorites of mine include the enormously contradictory accounts of
the resurrection. They're mundane in and of themselves, but the lengths to
which christians go to reconcile them, and the logical improbabilities they
are forced to believe in order to do so, are hilarious.
.
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| User: "dgillesp" |
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| Title: Re: fallacies of the bible |
13 Jan 2004 10:17:31 AM |
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David Vestal wrote:
"Noyb" <zarwell@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:lOCMb.7595$RB4.5548@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com:
A friend tried to tell me that the bible was true and without error
and blah blah blah. After laughing for a bit I rambled off a couple
famous fallacies of the bible. I know there are a ton but I'm curious
what some of everyone's favorites are.
Personal favorites of mine include the enormously contradictory accounts of
the resurrection. They're mundane in and of themselves, but the lengths to
which christians go to reconcile them, and the logical improbabilities they
are forced to believe in order to do so, are hilarious.
Obviously you have never been to court and heard different witnesses
give their account of an accident or an altercation. It's when they all
line up in every detail that you rightly begin to suspect collusion.
methodios
.
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| User: "David Vestal" |
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| Title: Re: fallacies of the bible |
13 Jan 2004 12:06:06 PM |
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dgillesp <dgillesp@pemtel.net> wrote in
news:40041A1B.79B97C4B@pemtel.net:
David Vestal wrote:
"Noyb" <zarwell@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:lOCMb.7595$RB4.5548@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com:
A friend tried to tell me that the bible was true and without error
and blah blah blah. After laughing for a bit I rambled off a couple
famous fallacies of the bible. I know there are a ton but I'm
curious what some of everyone's favorites are.
Personal favorites of mine include the enormously contradictory
accounts of the resurrection. They're mundane in and of themselves,
but the lengths to which christians go to reconcile them, and the
logical improbabilities they are forced to believe in order to do so,
are hilarious.
Obviously you have never been to court and heard different witnesses
give their account of an accident or an altercation. It's when they
all line up in every detail that you rightly begin to suspect
collusion.
methodios
Okay, is it your contention that the enormously contradictory accounts of
the resurrection strengthen the case for its being historical and true?
Are they all simultaneously accurate, even in their contradictions? Do
you believe the same of the contradicting accounts of Judas's death, or
are you of the hanged-himself-over-a-cliff school?
.
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| User: "dgillesp" |
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| Title: Re: fallacies of the bible |
13 Jan 2004 02:47:04 PM |
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David Vestal wrote:
dgillesp <dgillesp@pemtel.net> wrote in
news:40041A1B.79B97C4B@pemtel.net:
David Vestal wrote:
"Noyb" <zarwell@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:lOCMb.7595$RB4.5548@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com:
A friend tried to tell me that the bible was true and without error
and blah blah blah. After laughing for a bit I rambled off a couple
famous fallacies of the bible. I know there are a ton but I'm
curious what some of everyone's favorites are.
Personal favorites of mine include the enormously contradictory
accounts of the resurrection. They're mundane in and of themselves,
but the lengths to which christians go to reconcile them, and the
logical improbabilities they are forced to believe in order to do so,
are hilarious.
Obviously you have never been to court and heard different witnesses
give their account of an accident or an altercation. It's when they
all line up in every detail that you rightly begin to suspect
collusion.
methodios
Okay, is it your contention that the enormously contradictory accounts of
the resurrection strengthen the case for its being historical and true?
Are they all simultaneously accurate, even in their contradictions? Do
you believe the same of the contradicting accounts of Judas's death, or
are you of the hanged-himself-over-a-cliff school?
There are only two accounts of Judas's death, one in Matthew and the
other in Acts. Though they differ in how he died, both agree that Judas
came to a bitter and untimely end.
.
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: fallacies of the bible |
13 Jan 2004 03:28:55 PM |
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One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach dgillesp:
David Vestal wrote:
dgillesp <dgillesp@pemtel.net> wrote in
news:40041A1B.79B97C4B@pemtel.net:
David Vestal wrote:
"Noyb" <zarwell@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:lOCMb.7595$RB4.5548@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com:
A friend tried to tell me that the bible was true and without
error and blah blah blah. After laughing for a bit I rambled off
a couple famous fallacies of the bible. I know there are a ton
but I'm curious what some of everyone's favorites are.
Personal favorites of mine include the enormously contradictory
accounts of the resurrection. They're mundane in and of
themselves, but the lengths to which christians go to reconcile
them, and the logical improbabilities they are forced to believe in
order to do so, are hilarious.
Obviously you have never been to court and heard different witnesses
give their account of an accident or an altercation. It's when they
all line up in every detail that you rightly begin to suspect
collusion.
methodios
Okay, is it your contention that the enormously contradictory accounts
of the resurrection strengthen the case for its being historical and
true? Are they all simultaneously accurate, even in their
contradictions? Do you believe the same of the contradicting accounts
of Judas's death, or are you of the hanged-himself-over-a-cliff
school?
There are only two accounts of Judas's death, one in Matthew and the
other in Acts. Though they differ in how he died, both agree that Judas
came to a bitter and untimely end.
The problem is, those two "eyewitness" accounts are so different they would
cast enough doubt on the prosecution's testimony to get the case thrown out
of court.
The same goes for a lot of the bible, and you're calling it the word of a
supposed higher authority. And you ask why we doubt. We ask, "how can you
not?"
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
______________
The fool says in his heart "there is no God".
The wise man says it to the world.
.
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| User: "dgillesp" |
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| Title: Re: fallacies of the bible |
13 Jan 2004 06:23:40 PM |
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Vic Sagerquist wrote:
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach dgillesp:
David Vestal wrote:
dgillesp <dgillesp@pemtel.net> wrote in
news:40041A1B.79B97C4B@pemtel.net:
David Vestal wrote:
"Noyb" <zarwell@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:lOCMb.7595$RB4.5548@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com:
A friend tried to tell me that the bible was true and without
error and blah blah blah. After laughing for a bit I rambled off
a couple famous fallacies of the bible. I know there are a ton
but I'm curious what some of everyone's favorites are.
Personal favorites of mine include the enormously contradictory
accounts of the resurrection. They're mundane in and of
themselves, but the lengths to which christians go to reconcile
them, and the logical improbabilities they are forced to believe in
order to do so, are hilarious.
Obviously you have never been to court and heard different witnesses
give their account of an accident or an altercation. It's when they
all line up in every detail that you rightly begin to suspect
collusion.
methodios
Okay, is it your contention that the enormously contradictory accounts
of the resurrection strengthen the case for its being historical and
true? Are they all simultaneously accurate, even in their
contradictions? Do you believe the same of the contradicting accounts
of Judas's death, or are you of the hanged-himself-over-a-cliff
school?
There are only two accounts of Judas's death, one in Matthew and the
other in Acts. Though they differ in how he died, both agree that Judas
came to a bitter and untimely end.
The problem is, those two "eyewitness" accounts are so different they would
cast enough doubt on the prosecution's testimony to get the case thrown out
of court.
Neither the author of Matthew nor Luke the Physician who wrote Acts were
"eyewitnesses." They simply passed on the differing version of Judas's
death which had been told to them.
The same goes for a lot of the bible, and you're calling it the word of a
supposed higher authority. And you ask why we doubt. We ask, "how can you
not?"
Doubt serves a very useful purpose. In fact, there is no faith without
doubt. However, doubt also can be a convenient ploy for avoiding
commitment, like the guy who toys with the idea of marriage with his
live-in girl friend of 15 years, but fears stepping over the line.
methodios
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
______________
The fool says in his heart "there is no God".
The wise man says it to the world.
.
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| User: "David Vestal" |
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| Title: Re: fallacies of the bible |
13 Jan 2004 03:02:50 PM |
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dgillesp <dgillesp@pemtel.net> wrote in
news:40045948.F1E39265@pemtel.net:
David Vestal wrote:
dgillesp <dgillesp@pemtel.net> wrote in
news:40041A1B.79B97C4B@pemtel.net:
David Vestal wrote:
"Noyb" <zarwell@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:lOCMb.7595$RB4.5548@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com:
A friend tried to tell me that the bible was true and without
error and blah blah blah. After laughing for a bit I rambled off
a couple famous fallacies of the bible. I know there are a ton
but I'm curious what some of everyone's favorites are.
Personal favorites of mine include the enormously contradictory
accounts of the resurrection. They're mundane in and of
themselves, but the lengths to which christians go to reconcile
them, and the logical improbabilities they are forced to believe
in order to do so, are hilarious.
Obviously you have never been to court and heard different
witnesses give their account of an accident or an altercation.
It's when they all line up in every detail that you rightly begin
to suspect collusion.
methodios
Okay, is it your contention that the enormously contradictory
accounts of the resurrection strengthen the case for its being
historical and true? Are they all simultaneously accurate, even in
their contradictions? Do you believe the same of the contradicting
accounts of Judas's death, or are you of the
hanged-himself-over-a-cliff school?
There are only two accounts of Judas's death, one in Matthew and the
other in Acts. Though they differ in how he died, both agree that
Judas came to a bitter and untimely end.
That's not an answer to my question. In fact, that's not an answer to
ANY of my questions, all of which are pertinent and politely posed.
1) Do you believe, as you seem to, that the enormously contradictory
accounts of the resurrection strengthen the case for its being
historical and true?
2) Do you believe that the contradictory accounts are all simultaneously
accurate?
3) Do you believe that the contradictory accounts of Judas's death are
both completely true?
4) Suppose Peter had stated that Judas was trampled to death by horses.
Would you have called that account accurate, since it "agrees" that Judas
had a "bitter and untimely end?"
Come on, don't be afraid to commit yourself to your beliefs.
.
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| User: "dgillesp" |
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| Title: Re: fallacies of the bible |
13 Jan 2004 06:12:34 PM |
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David Vestal wrote:
dgillesp <dgillesp@pemtel.net> wrote in
news:40045948.F1E39265@pemtel.net:
David Vestal wrote:
dgillesp <dgillesp@pemtel.net> wrote in
news:40041A1B.79B97C4B@pemtel.net:
David Vestal wrote:
"Noyb" <zarwell@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:lOCMb.7595$RB4.5548@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com:
A friend tried to tell me that the bible was true and without
error and blah blah blah. After laughing for a bit I rambled off
a couple famous fallacies of the bible. I know there are a ton
but I'm curious what some of everyone's favorites are.
Personal favorites of mine include the enormously contradictory
accounts of the resurrection. They're mundane in and of
themselves, but the lengths to which christians go to reconcile
them, and the logical improbabilities they are forced to believe
in order to do so, are hilarious.
Obviously you have never been to court and heard different
witnesses give their account of an accident or an altercation.
It's when they all line up in every detail that you rightly begin
to suspect collusion.
methodios
Okay, is it your contention that the enormously contradictory
accounts of the resurrection strengthen the case for its being
historical and true? Are they all simultaneously accurate, even in
their contradictions? Do you believe the same of the contradicting
accounts of Judas's death, or are you of the
hanged-himself-over-a-cliff school?
There are only two accounts of Judas's death, one in Matthew and the
other in Acts. Though they differ in how he died, both agree that
Judas came to a bitter and untimely end.
That's not an answer to my question. In fact, that's not an answer to
ANY of my questions, all of which are pertinent and politely posed.
1) Do you believe, as you seem to, that the enormously contradictory
accounts of the resurrection strengthen the case for its being
historical and true?
For my part there is sufficient evidence of the resurrection. I do not
agree that the accounts are "enorously" contradictory. Mark's Gospel
usually considered the earliest is believed to have been written about
65 A.D., and so for some 32-37 years after the fact the resurrection
stories were passed on by word of mouth. The stories understandably
evolved and changed during that time, but the __conviction__ that Christ
rose from the dead did not change.
2) Do you believe that the contradictory accounts are all simultaneously
accurate?
No, not in the sense that you ask. The Gospels are not __primarily__
historical biographies, but all bear witness to the reality of
incarnation, crucifixion, and resurrection of the God-Man, Jesus Christ.
3) Do you believe that the contradictory accounts of Judas's death are
both completely true?
The stories of his death do not agree, but that is not the point.
Disloyalty, greed, and treachery with their bitter consequences (remorse
and death) as played out in the life and death of Judas the Betrayer are
true. Differing versions of his demise circulated during the interim
before the author of Matthew (85-90 A.D.)and Luke (65-70 A.D.) put pen
to scroll. Each passed on what he had received. Neither were
eye-witnesses, but both bore witness to their experience of the
resurrected Christ.
4) Suppose Peter had stated that Judas was trampled to death by horses.
Would you have called that account accurate, since it "agrees" that Judas
had a "bitter and untimely end?"
Not the account per se but that to which it points (see above) __is the
truth__.
Come on, don't be afraid to commit yourself to your beliefs.
methodios
.
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| User: "David Vestal" |
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| Title: Re: fallacies of the bible |
13 Jan 2004 06:53:39 PM |
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dgillesp <dgillesp@pemtel.net> wrote in
news:40048972.AB1646F@pemtel.net:
David Vestal wrote:
dgillesp <dgillesp@pemtel.net> wrote in
news:40045948.F1E39265@pemtel.net:
David Vestal wrote:
dgillesp <dgillesp@pemtel.net> wrote in
news:40041A1B.79B97C4B@pemtel.net:
David Vestal wrote:
"Noyb" <zarwell@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:lOCMb.7595$RB4.5548@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com:
A friend tried to tell me that the bible was true and without
error and blah blah blah. After laughing for a bit I rambled
off a couple famous fallacies of the bible. I know there are
a ton but I'm curious what some of everyone's favorites are.
Personal favorites of mine include the enormously contradictory
accounts of the resurrection. They're mundane in and of
themselves, but the lengths to which christians go to reconcile
them, and the logical improbabilities they are forced to
believe in order to do so, are hilarious.
Obviously you have never been to court and heard different
witnesses give their account of an accident or an altercation.
It's when they all line up in every detail that you rightly
begin to suspect collusion.
methodios
Okay, is it your contention that the enormously contradictory
accounts of the resurrection strengthen the case for its being
historical and true? Are they all simultaneously accurate, even in
their contradictions? Do you believe the same of the
contradicting accounts of Judas's death, or are you of the
hanged-himself-over-a-cliff school?
There are only two accounts of Judas's death, one in Matthew and
the other in Acts. Though they differ in how he died, both agree
that Judas came to a bitter and untimely end.
That's not an answer to my question. In fact, that's not an answer
to ANY of my questions, all of which are pertinent and politely
posed.
1) Do you believe, as you seem to, that the enormously contradictory
accounts of the resurrection strengthen the case for its being
historical and true?
For my part there is sufficient evidence of the resurrection. I do
not agree that the accounts are "enorously" contradictory. Mark's
Gospel usually considered the earliest is believed to have been
written about 65 A.D., and so for some 32-37 years after the fact the
resurrection stories were passed on by word of mouth. The stories
understandably evolved and changed during that time, but the
__conviction__ that Christ rose from the dead did not change.
2) Do you believe that the contradictory accounts are all
simultaneously accurate?
No, not in the sense that you ask. The Gospels are not __primarily__
historical biographies, but all bear witness to the reality of
incarnation, crucifixion, and resurrection of the God-Man, Jesus
Christ.
3) Do you believe that the contradictory accounts of Judas's death
are both completely true?
The stories of his death do not agree, but that is not the point.
Disloyalty, greed, and treachery with their bitter consequences
(remorse and death) as played out in the life and death of Judas the
Betrayer are true. Differing versions of his demise circulated during
the interim before the author of Matthew (85-90 A.D.)and Luke (65-70
A.D.) put pen to scroll. Each passed on what he had received.
Neither were eye-witnesses, but both bore witness to their experience
of the resurrected Christ.
4) Suppose Peter had stated that Judas was trampled to death by
horses. Would you have called that account accurate, since it
"agrees" that Judas had a "bitter and untimely end?"
Not the account per se but that to which it points (see above) __is
the truth__.
Very well. You seem to regard the Bible as true in the broad picture it
paints, despite being unwilling to accept any one detail as accurate. I
can't say I agree, but at least it would be easier to believe your
version than the inerrantist view.
Come on, don't be afraid to commit yourself to your beliefs.
methodios
I don't see the significance of the reference, although I'm hardly an
authority on catholic saints.
.
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: fallacies of the bible |
12 Jan 2004 04:23:43 PM |
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One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach David Vestal:
"Noyb" <zarwell@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:lOCMb.7595$RB4.5548@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com:
A friend tried to tell me that the bible was true and without error
and blah blah blah. After laughing for a bit I rambled off a couple
famous fallacies of the bible. I know there are a ton but I'm curious
what some of everyone's favorites are.
Personal favorites of mine include the enormously contradictory accounts
of the resurrection. They're mundane in and of themselves, but the
lengths to which christians go to reconcile them, and the logical
improbabilities they are forced to believe in order to do so, are
hilarious.
It makes me wonder why the book burners of the fourth century didn't burn
three of the gospels to hide the inconsistencies. But then again that
would only solve part of their dilemma.
One of my favorites is the death of Judas and what was done with the money
he was given to betray Christ. Listening to Christians argue that he
hanged himself, the rope broke, and he fell onto some rocks and disembowled
himself puts me in stitches!
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
______________
The fool says in his heart "there is no God".
The wise man says it to the world.
.
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: fallacies of the bible |
12 Jan 2004 04:42:50 PM |
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"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:946E912A2vicman@127.0.0.1...
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach David Vestal:
"Noyb" <zarwell@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:lOCMb.7595$RB4.5548@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com:
A friend tried to tell me that the bible was true and without error
and blah blah blah. After laughing for a bit I rambled off a couple
famous fallacies of the bible. I know there are a ton but I'm curious
what some of everyone's favorites are.
Personal favorites of mine include the enormously contradictory accounts
of the resurrection. They're mundane in and of themselves, but the
lengths to which christians go to reconcile them, and the logical
improbabilities they are forced to believe in order to do so, are
hilarious.
It makes me wonder why the book burners of the fourth century didn't burn
three of the gospels to hide the inconsistencies. But then again that
would only solve part of their dilemma.
One of my favorites is the death of Judas and what was done with the money
he was given to betray Christ. Listening to Christians argue that he
hanged himself, the rope broke, and he fell onto some rocks and
disembowled
himself puts me in stitches!
What is the Gospel explanation?
.
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| User: "David Vestal" |
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| Title: Re: fallacies of the bible |
12 Jan 2004 05:40:12 PM |
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"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:KpFMb.34450$5V2.51529@attbi_s53:
"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:946E912A2vicman@127.0.0.1...
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach David Vestal:
"Noyb" <zarwell@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:lOCMb.7595$RB4.5548@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com:
A friend tried to tell me that the bible was true and without
error and blah blah blah. After laughing for a bit I rambled off a
couple famous fallacies of the bible. I know there are a ton but
I'm curious what some of everyone's favorites are.
Personal favorites of mine include the enormously contradictory
accounts of the resurrection. They're mundane in and of themselves,
but the lengths to which christians go to reconcile them, and the
logical improbabilities they are forced to believe in order to do
so, are hilarious.
It makes me wonder why the book burners of the fourth century didn't
burn three of the gospels to hide the inconsistencies. But then
again that would only solve part of their dilemma.
One of my favorites is the death of Judas and what was done with the
money he was given to betray Christ. Listening to Christians argue
that he hanged himself, the rope broke, and he fell onto some rocks
and
disembowled
himself puts me in stitches!
Me too. :)
What is the Gospel explanation?
Believe it or not, that IS the gospel explanation. One book says Judas
hanged himself, another says he "fell headlong in a field, and his bowels
gushed out." So they say he hanged himself, the rope broke, Judas fell,
rotating in midair to fulfill the "headlong" requirement, and upon
hitting the ground, his abdomen gave way, causing his entrails to "gush
out."
.
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: fallacies of the bible |
12 Jan 2004 07:39:15 PM |
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One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach David Vestal:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:KpFMb.34450$5V2.51529@attbi_s53:
"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:946E912A2vicman@127.0.0.1...
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach David Vestal:
"Noyb" <zarwell@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:lOCMb.7595$RB4.5548@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com:
A friend tried to tell me that the bible was true and without
error and blah blah blah. After laughing for a bit I rambled off
a couple famous fallacies of the bible. I know there are a ton
but I'm curious what some of everyone's favorites are.
Personal favorites of mine include the enormously contradictory
accounts of the resurrection. They're mundane in and of
themselves, but the lengths to which christians go to reconcile
them, and the logical improbabilities they are forced to believe in
order to do so, are hilarious.
It makes me wonder why the book burners of the fourth century didn't
burn three of the gospels to hide the inconsistencies. But then
again that would only solve part of their dilemma.
One of my favorites is the death of Judas and what was done with the
money he was given to betray Christ. Listening to Christians argue
that he hanged himself, the rope broke, and he fell onto some rocks
and
disembowled
himself puts me in stitches!
Me too. :)
What is the Gospel explanation?
Believe it or not, that IS the gospel explanation. One book says
Judas hanged himself, another says he "fell headlong in a field, and
his bowels gushed out." So they say he hanged himself, the rope
broke, Judas fell, rotating in midair to fulfill the "headlong"
requirement, and upon hitting the ground, his abdomen gave way,
causing his entrails to "gush out."
Funny, most people don't go through the trouble of hanging themselves
high enough to do that kind of damage to the body if the rope breaks.
Did they have any skyscrapers back then?
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
______________
The fool says in his heart, "There is no God".
The wise man announces it to the world.
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: fallacies of the bible |
13 Jan 2004 10:43:07 AM |
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Lo, many moons past, on Tue, 13 Jan 2004 01:39:15 GMT, a stranger
called by some Vic Sagerquist <address@withheld.com> came forth and
told this tale in alt.atheism
Believe it or not, that IS the gospel explanation. One book says
Judas hanged himself, another says he "fell headlong in a field, and
his bowels gushed out." So they say he hanged himself, the rope
broke, Judas fell, rotating in midair to fulfill the "headlong"
requirement, and upon hitting the ground, his abdomen gave way,
causing his entrails to "gush out."
Funny, most people don't go through the trouble of hanging themselves
high enough to do that kind of damage to the body if the rope breaks.
Did they have any skyscrapers back then?
I once had a bleater tell me that he hanged himself over the edge of a
cliff. That was above his field. And that was that.
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: fallacies of the bible |
13 Jan 2004 10:53:26 AM |
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One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Douglas Berry:
Lo, many moons past, on Tue, 13 Jan 2004 01:39:15 GMT, a stranger
called by some Vic Sagerquist <address@withheld.com> came forth and
told this tale in alt.atheism
Believe it or not, that IS the gospel explanation. One book says
Judas hanged himself, another says he "fell headlong in a field, and
his bowels gushed out." So they say he hanged himself, the rope
broke, Judas fell, rotating in midair to fulfill the "headlong"
requirement, and upon hitting the ground, his abdomen gave way,
causing his entrails to "gush out."
Funny, most people don't go through the trouble of hanging themselves
high enough to do that kind of damage to the body if the rope breaks.
Did they have any skyscrapers back then?
I once had a bleater tell me that he hanged himself over the edge of a
cliff. That was above his field. And that was that.
If it even gets remotely close to making sense for the few seconds it would
take a skeptic to say "wait a minute", they're willing to let it go,
lapsing back into their warm fuzzy la-la land.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
______________
The fool says in his heart "there is no God".
The wise man says it to the world.
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: fallacies of the bible |
12 Jan 2004 04:54:11 PM |
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One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Geoff:
"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:946E912A2vicman@127.0.0.1...
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach David Vestal:
"Noyb" <zarwell@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:lOCMb.7595$RB4.5548@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com:
A friend tried to tell me that the bible was true and without error
and blah blah blah. After laughing for a bit I rambled off a couple
famous fallacies of the bible. I know there are a ton but I'm
curious what some of everyone's favorites are.
Personal favorites of mine include the enormously contradictory
accounts of the resurrection. They're mundane in and of themselves,
but the lengths to which christians go to reconcile them, and the
logical improbabilities they are forced to believe in order to do so,
are hilarious.
It makes me wonder why the book burners of the fourth century didn't
burn three of the gospels to hide the inconsistencies. But then again
that would only solve part of their dilemma.
One of my favorites is the death of Judas and what was done with the
money he was given to betray Christ. Listening to Christians argue
that he hanged himself, the rope broke, and he fell onto some rocks
and
disembowled
himself puts me in stitches!
What is the Gospel explanation?
Both. Heh. And the money was both thrown down at the altar, AND used to
buy a field.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
______________
The fool says in his heart "there is no God".
The wise man says it to the world.
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| User: "dgillesp" |
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| Title: Re: fallacies of the bible |
13 Jan 2004 10:22:27 AM |
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Vic Sagerquist wrote:
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Geoff:
"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:946E912A2vicman@127.0.0.1...
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach David Vestal:
"Noyb" <zarwell@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:lOCMb.7595$RB4.5548@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com:
A friend tried to tell me that the bible was true and without error
and blah blah blah. After laughing for a bit I rambled off a couple
famous fallacies of the bible. I know there are a ton but I'm
curious what some of everyone's favorites are.
Personal favorites of mine include the enormously contradictory
accounts of the resurrection. They're mundane in and of themselves,
but the lengths to which christians go to reconcile them, and the
logical improbabilities they are forced to believe in order to do so,
are hilarious.
It makes me wonder why the book burners of the fourth century didn't
burn three of the gospels to hide the inconsistencies. But then again
that would only solve part of their dilemma.
One of my favorites is the death of Judas and what was done with the
money he was given to betray Christ. Listening to Christians argue
that he hanged himself, the rope broke, and he fell onto some rocks
and
disembowled
himself puts me in stitches!
What is the Gospel explanation?
Both. Heh. And the money was both thrown down at the altar, AND used to
buy a field.
What could the priests do with blood money? To put it in the temple
treasury would have been sacrilege.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
______________
The fool says in his heart "there is no God".
The wise man says it to the world.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: fallacies of the bible |
13 Jan 2004 11:59:30 AM |
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In article <40041B43.F80437FD@pemtel.net>, dgillesp says...
Vic Sagerquist wrote:
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Geoff:
"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:946E912A2vicman@127.0.0.1...
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach David Vestal:
"Noyb" <zarwell@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:lOCMb.7595$RB4.5548@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com:
A friend tried to tell me that the bible was true and without error
and blah blah blah. After laughing for a bit I rambled off a couple
famous fallacies of the bible. I know there are a ton but I'm
curious what some of everyone's favorites are.
Personal favorites of mine include the enormously contradictory
accounts of the resurrection. They're mundane in and of themselves,
but the lengths to which christians go to reconcile them, and the
logical improbabilities they are forced to believe in order to do so,
are hilarious.
It makes me wonder why the book burners of the fourth century didn't
burn three of the gospels to hide the inconsistencies. But then again
that would only solve part of their dilemma.
One of my favorites is the death of Judas and what was done with the
money he was given to betray Christ. Listening to Christians argue
that he hanged himself, the rope broke, and he fell onto some rocks
and
disembowled
himself puts me in stitches!
What is the Gospel explanation?
Both. Heh. And the money was both thrown down at the altar, AND used to
buy a field.
What could the priests do with blood money? To put it in the temple
treasury would have been sacrilege.
So is molesting children, but that doesn't seem to stop priests today.
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: fallacies of the bible |
13 Jan 2004 10:58:51 AM |
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One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach dgillesp:
Vic Sagerquist wrote:
One of my favorites is the death of Judas and what was done with
the money he was given to betray Christ. Listening to Christians
argue that he hanged himself, the rope broke, and he fell onto some
rocks and
disembowled
himself puts me in stitches!
What is the Gospel explanation?
Both. Heh. And the money was both thrown down at the altar, AND used
to buy a field.
What could the priests do with blood money? To put it in the temple
treasury would have been sacrilege.
Hyprcrites, of course. Case in point, the Mormon Temple in the San Diego
area, also the Vatican. What do you think they're worth? Roughly?
"I am surrounded by priests who repeat incessantly that their kingdom is
not of this world, and yet they lay their hands on everything they can
get."
[Napoleon Bonaparte]
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
______________
The fool says in his heart "there is no God".
The wise man says it to the world.
.
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| User: "dgillesp" |
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| Title: Re: fallacies of the bible |
13 Jan 2004 10:19:04 AM |
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Vic Sagerquist wrote:
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach David Vestal:
"Noyb" <zarwell@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:lOCMb.7595$RB4.5548@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com:
A friend tried to tell me that the bible was true and without error
and blah blah blah. After laughing for a bit I rambled off a couple
famous fallacies of the bible. I know there are a ton but I'm curious
what some of everyone's favorites are.
Personal favorites of mine include the enormously contradictory accounts
of the resurrection. They're mundane in and of themselves, but the
lengths to which christians go to reconcile them, and the logical
improbabilities they are forced to believe in order to do so, are
hilarious.
It makes me wonder why the book burners of the fourth century didn't burn
three of the gospels to hide the inconsistencies. But then again that
would only solve part of their dilemma.
One of my favorites is the death of Judas and what was done with the money
he was given to betray Christ. Listening to Christians argue that he
hanged himself, the rope broke, and he fell onto some rocks and disembowled
himself puts me in stitches!
They all agree that he came to a bitter and untimely end.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
______________
The fool says in his heart "there is no God".
The wise man says it to the world.
.
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: fallacies of the bible |
13 Jan 2004 03:24:00 PM |
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One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach dgillesp:
Vic Sagerquist wrote:
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach David Vestal:
"Noyb" <zarwell@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:lOCMb.7595$RB4.5548@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com:
A friend tried to tell me that the bible was true and without error
and blah blah blah. After laughing for a bit I rambled off a couple
famous fallacies of the bible. I know there are a ton but I'm
curious what some of everyone's favorites are.
Personal favorites of mine include the enormously contradictory
accounts of the resurrection. They're mundane in and of themselves,
but the lengths to which christians go to reconcile them, and the
logical improbabilities they are forced to believe in order to do so,
are hilarious.
It makes me wonder why the book burners of the fourth century didn't
burn three of the gospels to hide the inconsistencies. But then again
that would only solve part of their dilemma.
One of my favorites is the death of Judas and what was done with the
money he was given to betray Christ. Listening to Christians argue
that he hanged himself, the rope broke, and he fell onto some rocks
and disembowled himself puts me in stitches!
They all agree that he came to a bitter and untimely end.
So did Adolf Hitler, but he was real.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
______________
The fool says in his heart "there is no God".
The wise man says it to the world.
.
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| User: "Noyb" |
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| Title: Re: fallacies of the bible |
12 Jan 2004 02:19:18 PM |
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"Noyb" <zarwell@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:lOCMb.7595$RB4.5548@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
A friend tried to tell me that the bible was true and without error and
blah
blah blah. After laughing for a bit I rambled off a couple famous
fallacies
of the bible. I know there are a ton but I'm curious what some of
everyone's
favorites are.
Sorry, should have been specific. Please include any facts to back it up.
Such as: "God does not change." James 1:17 says God has 'no variableness...'
but then, in Jonah 3:10, God "repented" and changed his mind about smiting
Nineveh's people. Stuff like that. I don't like to leave room for argument
if possible. Thx.
.
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| User: "David Vestal" |
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| Title: Re: fallacies of the bible |
12 Jan 2004 02:40:35 PM |
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"Noyb" <zarwell@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:ajDMb.7604$QI4.7350@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com:
"Noyb" <zarwell@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:lOCMb.7595$RB4.5548@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
A friend tried to tell me that the bible was true and without error
and
blah
blah blah. After laughing for a bit I rambled off a couple famous
fallacies
of the bible. I know there are a ton but I'm curious what some of
everyone's
favorites are.
Sorry, should have been specific. Please include any facts to back it
up. Such as: "God does not change." James 1:17 says God has 'no
variableness...' but then, in Jonah 3:10, God "repented" and changed
his mind about smiting Nineveh's people. Stuff like that. I don't like
to leave room for argument if possible. Thx.
Another good one is the four different wordings for the sign that was on
the cross.
How do they get around it? "Well, there were four LANGUAGES on the sign,
Hebrew, Greek, Latin, and Aramaic. Each language had a different
phrase."
How do they get around the fact that the Bible says the words were
written in only Hebrew, Greek, and Latin, without mentioning Aramaic?
"Well, if it were written in all FOUR, then OBVIOUSLY it was written in
at LEAST the first three!"
How do they explain the fact that they apparently think a different
phrase was written in each language? "Well, uh, we KNOW that different
wordings were used because that's the only way the facts make sense!"
Another good one is "who inspired David to take a census of Israel?" One
version says God, another says Satan. How do they explain that? "God
told Satan to tell David to do it." Oh yeah, then God killed a
significant chunk of the Hebrews in retaliation for David doing it.
I personally don't like to use contradictions that rest on marginally-
subtle wordplay, like "I am God, I change not" versus "It repented God
that he made man" or "God dwells in darkness" versus "Father of lights."
In my view, a person can too easily maintain illusions in the face of
those.
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: fallacies of the bible |
12 Jan 2004 04:55:15 PM |
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One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Noyb:
"Noyb" <zarwell@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:lOCMb.7595$RB4.5548@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
A friend tried to tell me that the bible was true and without error
and
blah
blah blah. After laughing for a bit I rambled off a couple famous
fallacies
of the bible. I know there are a ton but I'm curious what some of
everyone's
favorites are.
Sorry, should have been specific. Please include any facts to back it
up. Such as: "God does not change." James 1:17 says God has 'no
variableness...' but then, in Jonah 3:10, God "repented" and changed his
mind about smiting Nineveh's people. Stuff like that. I don't like to
leave room for argument if possible. Thx.
You can look them up here.
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
______________
The fool says in his heart "there is no God".
The wise man says it to the world.
.
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| User: "P A Abeles" |
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| Title: Re: fallacies of the bible |
12 Jan 2004 08:21:09 PM |
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"Noyb" <zarwell@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:lOCMb.7595$RB4.5548@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
A friend tried to tell me that the bible was true and without error and
blah
blah blah. After laughing for a bit I rambled off a couple famous
fallacies
of the bible. I know there are a ton but I'm curious what some of
everyone's
favorites are.
Read the " Bible Unearthed" by Finkelstein and Silberman two Israeli
archaeologists.
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| User: "Alun Harford" |
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| Title: Re: fallacies of the bible |
12 Jan 2004 06:28:13 PM |
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"Noyb" <zarwell@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:lOCMb.7595$RB4.5548@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
A friend tried to tell me that the bible was true and without error and
blah
blah blah. After laughing for a bit I rambled off a couple famous
fallacies
of the bible. I know there are a ton but I'm curious what some of
everyone's
favorites are.
The whole 'virgin birth' story is quite funny when you compare it to
history:
"And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar
Augustus that all the world should be taxed. (And this taxing was first made
when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) And all went to be taxed, every one
into his own city. And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of
Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem;
(because he was of the house and lineage of David:) To be taxed with Mary
his espoused wife, being great with child. And so it was, that, while they
were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered." Luke
2:1-6
Herod died in 4BC
The only census by Cyrenius when he was governor in Syria was conducted in
A.D. 6-7.
It cracks me up because even non-Fundis still take that literally.
Alun Harford
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| User: "dgillesp" |
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| Title: Re: fallacies of the bible |
13 Jan 2004 10:29:03 AM |
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Alun Harford wrote:
"Noyb" <zarwell@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:lOCMb.7595$RB4.5548@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
A friend tried to tell me that the bible was true and without error and
blah
blah blah. After laughing for a bit I rambled off a couple famous
fallacies
of the bible. I know there are a ton but I'm curious what some of
everyone's
favorites are.
The whole 'virgin birth' story is quite funny when you compare it to
history:
"And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar
Augustus that all the world should be taxed. (And this taxing was first made
when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) And all went to be taxed, every one
into his own city. And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of
Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem;
(because he was of the house and lineage of David:) To be taxed with Mary
his espoused wife, being great with child. And so it was, that, while they
were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered." Luke
2:1-6
Herod died in 4BC
The only census by Cyrenius when he was governor in Syria was conducted in
A.D. 6-7.
It cracks me up because even non-Fundis still take that literally.
Actually most non-Fundies now believe that Jesus was born about 4 B.C.
Alun Harford
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: fallacies of the bible |
13 Jan 2004 03:39:42 PM |
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One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach dgillesp:
Herod died in 4BC
The only census by Cyrenius when he was governor in Syria was
conducted in A.D. 6-7.
It cracks me up because even non-Fundis still take that literally.
Actually most non-Fundies now believe that Jesus was born about 4 B.C.
So then Herod sentenced Jesus to death when he was born?
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
______________
The fool says in his heart "there is no God".
The wise man says it to the world.
.
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: fallacies of the bible |
12 Jan 2004 04:41:37 PM |
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"Noyb" <zarwell@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:lOCMb.7595$RB4.5548@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
A friend tried to tell me that the bible was true and without error and
blah
blah blah. After laughing for a bit I rambled off a couple famous
fallacies
of the bible. I know there are a ton but I'm curious what some of
everyone's
favorites are.
Too start: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."
The lies continue thereafter.
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| User: "Billy Goat" |
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| Title: Re: fallacies of the bible |
12 Jan 2004 08:52:35 PM |
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"Noyb" <zarwell@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<lOCMb.7595$RB4.5548@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>...
A friend tried to tell me that the bible was true and without error and blah
blah blah. After laughing for a bit I rambled off a couple famous fallacies
of the bible. I know there are a ton but I'm curious what some of everyone's
favorites are.
Exodus 33:11
"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend."
John 1:18
"No man hath seen God at any time."
--Billy
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