Religions > Atheism > FAO: eyelessgame in re poll showing belief in 10,000 y.o. earth ANDdinosaurs living millions of years ago
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"lizzard woman" |
| Date: |
09 May 2005 08:56:30 PM |
| Object: |
FAO: eyelessgame in re poll showing belief in 10,000 y.o. earth ANDdinosaurs living millions of years ago |
Greetings. Can you provide the full citation for this poll? I mentioned it
in another forum and was asked for the citation.
"My favorite creationism-related poll data is the one that says 40% of poll
respondents in the United States agree with the statement 'God created the
earth about ten thousand years ago' but 91% agree with the statement
'Dinosaurs lived on the earth millions of years ago'." (eyelessgame, 2004)
Thanks in advance.
--
sharon, aa #2153
"(of creationism) ... Only apocryphal tales told by goat herders around the
campfire after it became too dark to continue to molest their charges." --
TvG (Rec.Equestrian, 2003)
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: FAO: eyelessgame in re poll showing belief in 10,000 y.o. earth ANDdinosaurs living millions of years ago |
09 May 2005 09:16:01 PM |
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lizzard woman wrote:
Greetings. Can you provide the full citation for this poll? I
mentioned it
in another forum and was asked for the citation.
"My favorite creationism-related poll data is the one that says 40%
of poll
respondents in the United States agree with the statement 'God
created the
earth about ten thousand years ago' but 91% agree with the statement
'Dinosaurs lived on the earth millions of years ago'." (eyelessgame,
2004)
http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/evol7.htm, although it uses 81%.
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| User: "U.O" |
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| Title: Re: FAO: eyelessgame in re poll showing belief in 10,000 y.o. earth ANDdinosaurs living millions of years ago |
10 May 2005 02:00:49 AM |
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<wizofaus@hotmail.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:1115691361.415833.266540@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
lizzard woman wrote:
Greetings. Can you provide the full citation for this poll? I
mentioned it
in another forum and was asked for the citation.
"My favorite creationism-related poll data is the one that says 40%
of poll
respondents in the United States agree with the statement 'God
created the
earth about ten thousand years ago' but 91% agree with the statement
'Dinosaurs lived on the earth millions of years ago'." (eyelessgame,
2004)
http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/evol7.htm, although it uses 81%.
To be fair, 45% thinks *humans* were created <10000 years ago, not the
earth. There's no direct contradiction to think humanity is 10000 years old
and that dinosaurs lived "millions of years ago". The poll result is still
pretty disturbing, of course, but let's not misquote it.
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| User: "A.Carlson" |
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| Title: Re: FAO: eyelessgame in re poll showing belief in 10,000 y.o. earth ANDdinosaurs living millions of years ago |
10 May 2005 12:13:21 PM |
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On Tue, 10 May 2005 09:00:49 +0200, "U.O" <km_anka@hotmail.com> wrote:
<wizofaus@hotmail.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:1115691361.415833.266540@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
lizzard woman wrote:
Greetings. Can you provide the full citation for this poll? I
mentioned it
in another forum and was asked for the citation.
"My favorite creationism-related poll data is the one that says 40%
of poll
respondents in the United States agree with the statement 'God
created the
earth about ten thousand years ago' but 91% agree with the statement
'Dinosaurs lived on the earth millions of years ago'." (eyelessgame,
2004)
http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/evol7.htm, although it uses 81%.
To be fair, 45% thinks *humans* were created <10000 years ago, not the
earth. There's no direct contradiction to think humanity is 10000 years old
and that dinosaurs lived "millions of years ago". The poll result is still
pretty disturbing, of course, but let's not misquote it.
One should not underestimate a person's ability to compartmentalize
potentially conflicting information and answer questions accordingly
or just not bother with reconciling conflicting information.
For example, I find it interesting that in a country where a majority
of people still self-identify themselves as being Christians, a large
percent of people, including self-professed Christians, also believe
in reincarnation.
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| User: "Pithecanthropus Erectus" |
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| Title: Re: FAO: eyelessgame in re poll showing belief in 10,000 y.o. earthANDdinosaurs living millions of years ago |
10 May 2005 07:59:36 AM |
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U.O wrote:
<wizofaus@hotmail.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:1115691361.415833.266540@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
lizzard woman wrote:
Greetings. Can you provide the full citation for this poll? I
mentioned it
in another forum and was asked for the citation.
"My favorite creationism-related poll data is the one that says 40%
of poll
respondents in the United States agree with the statement 'God
created the
earth about ten thousand years ago' but 91% agree with the statement
'Dinosaurs lived on the earth millions of years ago'." (eyelessgame,
2004)
http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/evol7.htm, although it uses 81%.
To be fair, 45% thinks *humans* were created <10000 years ago, not the
earth. There's no direct contradiction to think humanity is 10000 years old
and that dinosaurs lived "millions of years ago". The poll result is still
pretty disturbing, of course, but let's not misquote it.
It seems like the world may be ready for Hammond after all. After all,
the Universe is 12.7 billion years old, the earth is 4.5 BYA, but
reality and God are only 100,000 years old.
--
"The pope should lift the ban on condoms immediately in order to err on
the side of life."
Catholics for Free Choice
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| User: "lizzard woman" |
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| Title: Re: FAO: eyelessgame in re poll showing belief in 10,000 y.o. earthANDdinosaurs living millions of years ago |
09 May 2005 09:35:06 PM |
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<wizofaus@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1115691361.415833.266540@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
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| lizzard woman wrote:
| > Greetings. Can you provide the full citation for this poll? I
| mentioned it
| > in another forum and was asked for the citation.
| >
| > "My favorite creationism-related poll data is the one that says 40%
| of poll
| > respondents in the United States agree with the statement 'God
| created the
| > earth about ten thousand years ago' but 91% agree with the statement
| > 'Dinosaurs lived on the earth millions of years ago'." (eyelessgame,
| 2004)
| >
| http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/evol7.htm, although it uses 81%.
Gracias!
--
sharon, aa #2153
"(of creationism) ... Only apocryphal tales told by goat herders around the
campfire after it became too dark to continue to molest their charges." --
TvG (Rec.Equestrian, 2003)
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| User: "Nancy Norton" |
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| Title: Re: FAO: eyelessgame in re poll showing belief in 10,000 y.o. earthANDdinosaurs living millions of years ago |
09 May 2005 10:46:25 PM |
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wrote:
lizzard woman wrote:
Greetings. Can you provide the full citation for this poll? I mentioned it
in another forum and was asked for the citation.
"My favorite creationism-related poll data is the one that says 40% of poll
respondents in the United States agree with the statement 'God created the
earth about ten thousand years ago' but 91% agree with the statement
'Dinosaurs lived on the earth millions of years ago'." (eyelessgame,
2004)
http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/evol7.htm, although it uses 81%.
That is completely bizarre!
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| User: "Ronin" |
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| Title: Re: FAO: eyelessgame in re poll showing belief in 10,000 y.o. earthANDdinosaurs living millions of years ago |
10 May 2005 10:48:43 AM |
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From my reading this poll is logically consistent (for a creationist).
The poll says that 45% of people believe that humans were created 10k
years ago and 81% think dinosaurs were here millions of years ago.
Nothing wrong with that. It didn't say the EARTH was created 10k years
but rather that humans were. Not that I believe that crap, but it is
hard to lampoon a creationist stance based on this poll.
Nancy Norton wrote:
wizofaus@hotmail.com wrote:
lizzard woman wrote:
Greetings. Can you provide the full citation for this poll? I
mentioned it
in another forum and was asked for the citation.
"My favorite creationism-related poll data is the one that says 40%
of poll
respondents in the United States agree with the statement 'God
created the
earth about ten thousand years ago' but 91% agree with the
statement
'Dinosaurs lived on the earth millions of years ago'."
(eyelessgame,
2004)
http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/evol7.htm, although it uses 81%.
That is completely bizarre!
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| User: "TomS" |
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| Title: Re: FAO: eyelessgame in re poll showing belief in 10,000 y.o. earthANDdinosaurs living millions of years ago |
10 May 2005 12:14:36 PM |
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"On 10 May 2005 08:48:43 -0700, in article
<1115740123.687263.179150@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Ronin stated..."
From my reading this poll is logically consistent (for a creationist).
The poll says that 45% of people believe that humans were created 10k
years ago and 81% think dinosaurs were here millions of years ago.
Nothing wrong with that. It didn't say the EARTH was created 10k years
but rather that humans were. Not that I believe that crap, but it is
hard to lampoon a creationist stance based on this poll.
I agree with you, and I think that we should stop this before
it becomes an "urban legend". If it's possible to stop one of
these.
I don't think that you will find many of the leaders in the
anti-evolution advocacy who would accept both of these. If they're
an old-earther, I think that they also would accept more than 10,000
years for humans. But it would not be egregiously inconsistent to
accept both.
Nancy Norton wrote:
wizofaus@hotmail.com wrote:
lizzard woman wrote:
Greetings. Can you provide the full citation for this poll? I
mentioned it
in another forum and was asked for the citation.
"My favorite creationism-related poll data is the one that says 40%
of poll
respondents in the United States agree with the statement 'God
created the
earth about ten thousand years ago' but 91% agree with the
statement
'Dinosaurs lived on the earth millions of years ago'."
(eyelessgame,
2004)
http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/evol7.htm, although it uses 81%.
That is completely bizarre!
--
---Tom S. <http://talkreason.org/articles/chickegg.cfm>
"Can you even assert this, Lucullus, that there is some force, united I supposed
with providence and design, that has moulded or, to use your word, fabricated a
human being? What sort of workmanship is that? where was it applied? when? why?
how?" Cicero, Academica Priora II (Lucullus) xxvii.87
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: FAO: eyelessgame in re poll showing belief in 10,000 y.o. earthANDdinosaurs living millions of years ago |
11 May 2005 06:30:43 AM |
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TomS wrote:
"On 10 May 2005 08:48:43 -0700, in article
<1115740123.687263.179150@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Ronin
stated..."
From my reading this poll is logically consistent (for a
creationist).
The poll says that 45% of people believe that humans were created
10k
years ago and 81% think dinosaurs were here millions of years ago.
Nothing wrong with that. It didn't say the EARTH was created 10k
years
but rather that humans were. Not that I believe that crap, but it is
hard to lampoon a creationist stance based on this poll.
I agree with you, and I think that we should stop this before
it becomes an "urban legend". If it's possible to stop one of
these.
Among reason- and science-minded people, it ought to be possible.
After all, that kind of fabulation is what the other guys do
deliberately. Having us cite inaccurate sources is just what they
like; it means we wasted our turn at bat, and even when we go on to
prove they're full of crap, it's only a draw and not the washout that
it should be.
I think www.atheists.org (surely not an ID front? But you never know -
do real atheists organise?) or the Kansas City Star introduced the
apparent confusion of the age of humans and of the Earth, which is
mentioned by Atheists in the executive summary but isn't amongst the
citations from the Star. Atheists also obviously has a problem with
dates; what I take to be the Star article is offered online via the
Star's site and http://nl.newsbank.com/ , dated November 7th, 1999, but
without paying $2.95 I only get this far:
Poll: A belief in God and evolution Kansans hold mixed views on state
board's action
Kansans overwhelmingly say they believe in God, but a majority also
thinks evolution should be taught in public schools, according to a
Kansas City Star-Wichita Eagle poll. Fifty-two percent of those polled
said they disagreed with the Kansas Board of Education's August
decision to adopt science standards that played down evolution - the
theory that living things share common ancestors but have changed over
time. The standards are guidelines for what public school students in
the...
I think Atheists.org should be challenged, and, if necessary, should
put up the $2.95. I'll drop them a line, but from their online form I
see they respond more enthusiastically to actual members.
In general, determining whether any such poll respondents took an
illogical position would really require poll results including
don't-know and no-comment, a Venn diagram, basic decimal arithmetic
and, of course, sight of the actual questions. But as for the
compartmentalised mind, I'd also be interested to see the effects of a
different order of asking the questions - including an "age of the
Earth" or "age of the Universe" one, or both, in which I'd like to see
500 years and 1,000 years as options.
Also, in this case, I gather we're sampling specifically residents of
Kansas in 1999, mostly educated in Kansas schools, and willing to
participate in a survey from the newspaper marketing research
department.
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| User: "lizzard woman" |
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| Title: Re: FAO: eyelessgame in re poll showing belief in 10,000 y.o.earthANDdinosaurs living millions of years ago |
10 May 2005 11:08:05 AM |
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"Ronin" <roninfromde@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1115740123.687263.179150@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
| >From my reading this poll is logically consistent (for a creationist).
| The poll says that 45% of people believe that humans were created 10k
| years ago and 81% think dinosaurs were here millions of years ago.
| Nothing wrong with that. It didn't say the EARTH was created 10k years
| but rather that humans were. Not that I believe that crap, but it is
| hard to lampoon a creationist stance based on this poll.
Well, to the extent that most of those polled do not have the specifics on
when modern humans likely arrived on the scene (~100K years ago AFAIK), this
really is a reference to the biblical creation of man, no?
I mean you can't really be suggesting that by this response in re humans
that they believe humans were evolving for millions of years and that most
respondents were specifically referring to modern man (H. sapiens sapiens)
finally evolving ~10,000 years ago. That seems too ludicrous to suggest.
--
sharon, aa #2153
"(of creationism) ... Only apocryphal tales told by goat herders around the
campfire after it became too dark to continue to molest their charges." --
TvG (Rec.Equestrian, 2003)
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| User: "Nancy Norton" |
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| Title: Re: FAO: eyelessgame in re poll showing belief in 10,000 y.o. earthANDdinosaursliving millions of years ago |
10 May 2005 02:05:59 PM |
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Ronin wrote:
From my reading this poll is logically consistent (for a creationist).
The poll says that 45% of people believe that humans were created 10k
years ago and 81% think dinosaurs were here millions of years ago.
Nothing wrong with that. It didn't say the EARTH was created 10k years
but rather that humans were. Not that I believe that crap, but it is
hard to lampoon a creationist stance based on this poll.
Even if you do grant that it is logically consistent for an OEC to
maintain that the earth is very old but humans were specially created
<10,000 years ago, the rest of the poll results don't make sense:
"49% reportedly accept some variant of evolution"
That implies that 51% do not accept any variant of evolution (except
maybe the "microevolution" that even YECs accept of variation within
"kinds"). However...
"65% considered fossil to be evidence that some sea creatures had
evolved into land animals"
That makes a minimum of 16% that don't accept any variant of evolution
but who accept that there is fossil evidence that sea creatures evolved
into land animals. I just can't see how a sea creature evolving into a
land animal could be construed as the YEC definition of
"microevolution". How is that not bizarre?
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: FAO: eyelessgame in re poll showing belief in 10,000 y.o. earth ANDdinosaurs living millions of years ago |
09 May 2005 11:11:12 PM |
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On 09 May 2005, dropped trou, farted, whirled, then shouted:
lizzard woman wrote:
Greetings. Can you provide the full citation for this poll? I
mentioned it
in another forum and was asked for the citation.
"My favorite creationism-related poll data is the one that says 40%
of poll
respondents in the United States agree with the statement 'God
created the
earth about ten thousand years ago' but 91% agree with the statement
'Dinosaurs lived on the earth millions of years ago'." (eyelessgame,
2004)
http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/evol7.htm, although it uses 81%.
It's religion. You expected the numbers to add up?
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
Plonked by Jason Gastrich for all eternity...
Lovingly plonked by Roger Pearse
______________
"I'm sickened by all religions. Religion has divided people. I don't
think there's any difference between the pope wearing a large hat and
parading around with a smoking purse and an African painting his face
white and praying to a rock."
[Howard Stern]
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| User: "John Harshman" |
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| Title: Re: FAO: eyelessgame in re poll showing belief in 10,000 y.o. earthANDdinosaurs living millions of years ago |
09 May 2005 09:14:52 PM |
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lizzard woman wrote:
Greetings. Can you provide the full citation for this poll? I mentioned it
in another forum and was asked for the citation.
"My favorite creationism-related poll data is the one that says 40% of poll
respondents in the United States agree with the statement 'God created the
earth about ten thousand years ago' but 91% agree with the statement
'Dinosaurs lived on the earth millions of years ago'." (eyelessgame, 2004)
I think the implication is obvious: God created the earth with *real*
age, not just the appearance of age. 10,000 years ago he created a
universe that was billions of years old. Simple once you understand it.
Thanks in advance.
Oh, you wanted the citation? I have no idea. Sorry.
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| User: "James" |
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| Title: Re: FAO: eyelessgame in re poll showing belief in 10,000 y.o. earthANDdinosaursliving millions of years ago |
10 May 2005 12:11:35 AM |
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John Harshman wrote:
lizzard woman wrote:
Greetings. Can you provide the full citation for this poll? I mentioned it
in another forum and was asked for the citation.
"My favorite creationism-related poll data is the one that says 40% of poll
respondents in the United States agree with the statement 'God created the
earth about ten thousand years ago' but 91% agree with the statement
'Dinosaurs lived on the earth millions of years ago'." (eyelessgame, 2004)
I think the implication is obvious: God created the earth with *real*
age, not just the appearance of age. 10,000 years ago he created a
universe that was billions of years old. Simple once you understand it.
I think the implication is that the people polled are fricking retards.
--
James B, defeating birth control since 2000
aa #944
"Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies."
-Friedrich Nietzsche
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: FAO: eyelessgame in re poll showing belief in 10,000 y.o. earthANDdinosaursliving millions of years ago |
10 May 2005 10:19:37 AM |
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"I think the implication is that the people polled are fricking
retards."
At best!
Mitch
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| User: "Harry F. Leopold" |
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| Title: Re: FAO: eyelessgame in re poll showing belief in 10,000 y.o. earthANDdinosaursliving millions of years ago |
10 May 2005 02:37:12 PM |
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On Tue, 10 May 2005 10:19:37 -0500, wrote
(in article <1115738377.295994.34380@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>):
"I think the implication is that the people polled are fricking
retards."
At best!
Mitch
Of course it could be the questioners who were "fricking retards." (The KC
Star has been rather retarded at times, I should know, I used to deliver, and
read, them 40 years ago, at that time they weren't too bad, but on occasion
they could be complete retards.)
--
Harry F. Leopold
aa #2076
AA/Vet #4
The Prints of Darkness
(remove gene to email)
"God hates figs."
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| User: "Kate " |
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| Title: Re: FAO: eyelessgame in re poll showing belief in 10,000 y.o. earthANDdinosaursliving millions of years ago |
10 May 2005 01:00:02 AM |
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On Tue, 10 May 2005 00:11:35 -0500, James <spamblock@com.com> wrote:
John Harshman wrote:
lizzard woman wrote:
Greetings. Can you provide the full citation for this poll? I mentioned it
in another forum and was asked for the citation.
"My favorite creationism-related poll data is the one that says 40% of poll
respondents in the United States agree with the statement 'God created the
earth about ten thousand years ago' but 91% agree with the statement
'Dinosaurs lived on the earth millions of years ago'." (eyelessgame, 2004)
I think the implication is obvious: God created the earth with *real*
age, not just the appearance of age. 10,000 years ago he created a
universe that was billions of years old. Simple once you understand it.
I think the implication is that the people polled are fricking retards.
Classic double think.
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