The Demand For A Sign:

Bill wrote:

Faulty design - Dumb design



There is nothing in evidence in this Universe that would indicate
"Intelligent Design"



Planets are inflicted with catastrophic impacts by asteroids. Stars
disappear into "Black Holes".



It is almost incomprehensible to understand many peoples reasoning about the
Universe we live in.



There are thousands of different and conflicting religious beliefs. NONE of
them are substantiated by ANY objective verifiable evidence. The foundations
of religion beliefs are totally illogical and based on myths, legends and
hearsay supported by inordinate fears of death and the unknown.

Get behind us, Satan!

The Demand For A Sign:

...but some of them said, "By Beelzebub, the prince of devils, He casts
out devils." And others, to test Him, demanded from Jesus a sign from
heaven. But He, seeing their thoughts, said to them: "Every kingdom
divided against itself is brought to desolation, and house will fall
upon house. If, then, Satan also is divided against himself, how shall
his kingdom stand? because you say that I cast out devils by
Beelzebub, by whom do your children cast them out? Therefore they
shall be your judges. But if I cast out devils by the finger of God,
then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

Crediting Mankind:

Upon hearing these powerful words of wisdom coming from Jesus, a woman
in the crowd lifted up her voice and said to Jesus, "Blessed is the
womb that bore You, and the breasts that nursed you!" But Jesus said,
"Rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God and keep it."

Praise be to You, O Christ.

Faulty design - Dumb design



There is nothing in evidence in this Universe that
would indicate "Intelligent Design"



Planets are inflicted with catastrophic impacts
by asteroids. Stars disappear into "Black Holes".



It is almost incomprehensible to understand many
peoples reasoning about the Universe we live in.



There are thousands of different and conflicting
religious beliefs. NONE of them are substantiated
by ANY objective verifiable evidence. The foundations
of religion beliefs are totally illogical and based
on myths, legends and hearsay supported by inordinate
fears of death and the unknown.

Get behind us, Satan!

The Demand For A Sign:

...but some of them said, "By Beelzebub, the prince of
devils, He casts out devils." And others, to test Him,
demanded from Jesus a sign from heaven. But He, seeing
their thoughts, said to them: "Every kingdom divided
against itself is brought to desolation, and house will
fall upon house. If, then, Satan also is divided against
himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because you say
that I cast out devils by Beelzebub, by whom do your
children cast them out? Therefore they shall be your
judges. But if I cast out devils by the finger of God,
then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

Crediting Mankind:

Upon hearing these powerful words of wisdom coming from
Jesus, a woman in the crowd lifted up her voice and
said to Jesus, "Blessed is the womb that bore You, and
the breasts that nursed you!" But Jesus said, "Rather,
blessed are they who hear the word of God and keep it."

Praise be to You, O Christ.

Bill wrote:

Faulty design - Dumb design



There is nothing in evidence in this Universe that would indicate
"Intelligent Design"



Planets are inflicted with catastrophic impacts by asteroids. Stars
disappear into "Black Holes".



It is almost incomprehensible to understand many peoples reasoning about the
Universe we live in.



There are thousands of different and conflicting religious beliefs. NONE of
them are substantiated by ANY objective verifiable evidence. The foundations
of religion beliefs are totally illogical and based on myths, legends and
hearsay supported by inordinate fears of death and the unknown.

Get behind us, Satan!

The Demand For A Sign:

...but some of them said, "By Beelzebub, the prince of devils, He casts
out devils." And others, to test Him, demanded from Jesus a sign from
heaven. But He, seeing their thoughts, said to them: "Every kingdom
divided against itself is brought to desolation, and house will fall
upon house. If, then, Satan also is divided against himself, how shall
his kingdom stand? because you say that I cast out devils by
Beelzebub, by whom do your children cast them out? Therefore they
shall be your judges. But if I cast out devils by the finger of God,
then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

Crediting Mankind:

Upon hearing these powerful words of wisdom coming from Jesus, a woman
in the crowd lifted up her voice and said to Jesus, "Blessed is the
womb that bore You, and the breasts that nursed you!" But Jesus said,
"Rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God and keep it."

Praise be to You, O Christ.

Get behind us, Satan!

Bill wrote:

There is nothing in evidence in this Universe that would indicate "Intelligent
Design"

Planets are inflicted with catastrophic impacts by asteroids. Stars disappear
into "Black Holes".

georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:

Do you think that impacts by asteroids on planets, not our own, is really
catastrophic? An if a star does disappear into a black hole, is it a loss?

Bill wrote:

There is nothing in evidence in this Universe that would indicate
"Intelligent Design"

Planets are inflicted with catastrophic impacts by asteroids. Stars
disappear into "Black Holes".

georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:

Do you think that impacts by asteroids on planets, not our own, is
really catastrophic? An if a star does disappear into a black hole,
is it a loss?

It's no use. They will just tell you God created the universe with chaos in
mind.

"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:88qff.6124$i7.3882@bignews2.bellsouth.net...

Faulty design - Dumb design



There is nothing in evidence in this Universe that would indicate
"Intelligent Design"



Planets are inflicted with catastrophic impacts by asteroids. Stars
disappear into "Black Holes".



It is almost incomprehensible to understand many peoples reasoning about
the Universe we live in.



There are thousands of different and conflicting religious beliefs. NONE
of them are substantiated by ANY objective verifiable evidence. The
foundations of religion beliefs are totally illogical and based on myths,
legends and hearsay supported by inordinate fears of death and the
unknown.



Then there is scientific knowledge which is supported and proven by tons
of objective verifiable evidence.



Many religious types claim the Intelligent Design of the Universe is proof
of god.



Intelligent Design!? Consider reality. The Universe shows no evidence of
intelligent design! Faulty Design would be more appropriate!



First let's look at the human body.



The openings to our breathing air and swallowing food and water are so
close that it often causes choking ( and sometimes fatal!) Why aren't
there two separate openings that do not conflict with each other?



The lung design is equally quaint and inefficient. The same tube acts as
the both the

entry for life giving oxygen and the exhaust pipe for the spent air. This
is the equivalent of an auto engine designer putting the exhaust pipe
through the carburetor manifold!



And why include a non functioning body organs like the Appendix and
Tonsils, which cause serious problems including death?



The penis is used to dispose of foul bodily fluids and to deliver
wholesome sperm to fertilize women's eggs for the birth of new humans.
Likewise the female's vagina is used as a sewer line and for delivery of
new infants. Is running a sewer line through the middle of a creation
organ logical or intelligent?



There is no evidence of intelligent design but only for random mutation
and natural selection. If it helps or does not interfere with survival it
is reproduced. If it doesn't, it doesn't survive. If an omniscient God
created man he certainly would have created a more logical and efficient
design.



Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Wars,
Cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases and serious body
malfunctions? Why does he permit millions of both young and old to starve
to death or die of miserable diseases? Why punish millions of totally
innocent children in this horrible way?

Why does this all powerful and caring god permit totally "innocent
children"
to die at birth? Or worse, be born lacking eyesight, a fully developed
brain, deaf and dumb, missing limbs etc.? Why are some born idiots and
others with super intelligence? Why are some born into wealth and others
pauper poor? Why are his human creations designed to deteriorate into a
miserable and devastating old age?



Why did this all powerful and loving creator create things like sharks,
jelly fish, octopus, lions, tigers, rhinoceros, poisonous snakes, stinging
and poisonous insects, poisonous plants etc.? Why did this caring
benevolent god create animals (including man) that need to painfully kill
and eat other animals to survive?



World War I claimed 9,000,000 lives of people of many religious faiths.

World II indiscriminately claimed over 20,000,000 lives of people of all
ages and religious faiths, plus a vast destruction of property and more
millions maimed
for life.

The recent Asian Tsunami has claimed 270,000 lives; men, women and
innocent children of all religious persuasions. 100,000 of these were
totally innocent children!

There were three major epidemics of the Bubonic Plaque - in the 6th, 14th.
and 17th centuries. The death toll was over 137 million men, women and
totally

innocent children.

The influenza of 1918-1919 killed at least 25 million men, women and
innocent
children indiscriminately.



Diseases like malaria, AIDS, tuberculosis, etc. maim and kill millions
indiscriminately every year. More millions die of starvation and
malnutrition.

These afflicted the young and old, atheists and those of all religious
persuasions.



Meanwhile MAN, not god, has developed defenses and cures for hundreds of
serious diseases. Man has learned to create shelter, heat and cooling,
purify water, world wide electronic communications, power and
transportation systems including flying through the air.


Perhaps your loving and caring god is actually a cruel, heartless, mean
and torturing tyrant. If he treats us so cruelly during life, why do you
think he will let us enjoy peace and happiness in his eternal Heaven after
death? And why does he keep all this a secret by preventing communication
with our dead parents, siblings and friends?

If there is a god that created the Universe, he is obviously not an
all-caring and benevolent god. Nor is he an "Intelligent Designer". The
objective evidence is that, if there is a god creator, he has NO concern
about the welfare of the creatures on Earth.



The objective evidence is that no god created man but quite the opposite;
that man created gods!

"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:88qff.6124$i7.3882@bignews2.bellsouth.net...

Faulty design - Dumb design

It's no use. They will just tell you God created the universe with chaos in
mind.

The lung design is equally quaint and inefficient. The same tube acts
as the both the

entry for life giving oxygen and the exhaust pipe for the spent air.
This is the equivalent of an auto engine designer putting the exhaust
pipe through the carburetor manifold!

On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 14:44:15 -0500, "Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote:

There are thousands of different and conflicting religious beliefs. NONE
of
them are substantiated by ANY objective verifiable evidence.

Question: what would objective, verifiable evidence be, how would we
identify
it, and how would we even begin to approach the ability to so determine
it's
objectiveness and ability to verify it?

Then there is scientific knowledge which is supported and proven by tons
of
objective verifiable evidence.

Many religious types claim the Intelligent Design of the Universe is proof
of god.

Intelligent design of the universe? Wow,is that objective and verifiable?

Intelligent Design!? Consider reality. The Universe shows no evidence of
intelligent design! Faulty Design would be more appropriate!

Why is it faulty?

First let's look at the human body.
The openings to our breathing air and swallowing food and water are so
close
that it often causes choking ( and sometimes fatal!) Why aren't there two
separate openings that do not conflict with each other?

On the other hand, why don't you pee from under your arm so you don't
confuse it
with your rectum, and make love with your big toe on the left foot?

The lung design is equally quaint and inefficient. The same tube acts as
the
both the
entry for life giving oxygen and the exhaust pipe for the spent air. This
is
the equivalent of an auto engine designer putting the exhaust pipe through
the carburetor manifold!

Uhhh, they both go to the same spot - starting at the lips and straight
thru to
the *****.

And why include a non functioning body organs like the Appendix and
Tonsils,
which cause serious problems including death?

Maybe they served an earlier function or a future function.

The penis is used to dispose of foul bodily fluids and to deliver
wholesome
sperm to fertilize women's eggs for the birth of new humans. Likewise the
female's vagina is used as a sewer line and for delivery of new infants.
Is
running a sewer line through the middle of a creation organ logical or
intelligent?

Do you pee under your arm?

There is no evidence of intelligent design but only for random mutation
and
natural selection. If it helps or does not interfere with survival it is
reproduced. If it doesn't, it doesn't survive. If an omniscient God
created
man he certainly would have created a more logical and efficient design.

Evolution is God's way.

Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Wars,
Cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases and serious body
malfunctions?

He didn't. He allows mankind acting as a god to develop those things.
Look
what a mess we made.

Why does he permit millions of both young and old to starve to death or
die
of miserable diseases? Why punish millions of totally innocent children in
this horrible way?

Mankind's screwups trying to be as a god. (See Genesis, A&E)

Why does this all powerful and caring god permit totally "innocent
children"
to die at birth? Or worse, be born lacking eyesight, a fully developed
brain, deaf and dumb, missing limbs etc.? Why are some born idiots and
others with super intelligence? Why are some born into wealth and others
pauper poor? Why are his human creations designed to deteriorate into a
miserable and devastating old age?

Same answer.

Why did this all powerful and loving creator create things like sharks,
jelly fish, octopus, lions, tigers, rhinoceros, poisonous snakes, stinging
and poisonous insects, poisonous plants etc.?

Sharks enjoy going to the opera also.

Why did this caring benevolent
god create animals (including man) that need to painfully kill and eat
other
animals to survive?

If we had acted the way he wanted to, the baby would play with the adder,
and
the lamb would lie with the lion.

World War I claimed 9,000,000 lives of people of many religious faiths.
World II indiscriminately claimed over 20,000,000 lives of people of all
ages and religious faiths, plus a vast destruction of property and more
millions maimed
for life.

Man did make a mess of things trying to perform like a god.

The objective evidence is that no god created man but quite the opposite;
that man created gods!

Now you got it, BUT, not almighty God.

duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****