Religions > Atheism > Florida's "school voucher" fraud sparks criminal investigations
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Fredric L. Rice" |
| Date: |
13 Dec 2003 04:29:13 AM |
| Object: |
Florida's "school voucher" fraud sparks criminal investigations |
The relight right wing extremists in the United States have been
pushing for hand outs to religious cults from tax payer's pockets
for the past three decades. Ruled unconstitutional everywhere
else in the country, Florida some how manages to continue to
violate the Constitution.
-=-
From The Palm Beach Post, 12/12/03:
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/content/auto/epaper/editions/friday/news_f39dc4e02013f01e00b1..html
Voucher audit triggers crime probes
By S.V. Dáte, Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
TALLAHASSEE --
Florida's chief financial officer issued a blistering review of Gov.
Jeb Bush's Department of Education Thursday for its failure to oversee
the state's three school voucher programs, a review that has resulted
in "active criminal investigations."
Capitol sources said five entities are under investigation by the
Office of Fiscal Integrity, a division that can file criminal charges,
but they declined to say which were criminal investigations and which
were civil.
Under investigation are:
-----Miami-based FloridaChild, the largest "scholarship funding
organization" in the state's corporate tax credit program.
FloridaChild, which alone accounts for nearly half of the 12,300
corporate vouchers distributed this year, used a $5.2 million line of
credit to pay for vouchers, accepted millions of dollars in transfers
from other scholarship groups and solicited a 2 percent donation from
the schools that receive its vouchers -- none of which is authorized
by law.
-----Castle Oak Academy, a Boynton Beach home-school "consultant" that
charged parents large commissions to provide them books and therapy
for their disabled children who were using McKay vouchers.
-----Silver Archer Foundation, the Ocala-based scholarship funding
group created by the operator of a bankrupt correspondence school who,
bankruptcy court records say, paid himself a salary based on the
corporate donations he collected for vouchers.
-----Heritage Schools of Florida, an Opa-locka school founded in 2002
that is receiving, according to department records, all three types of
state vouchers: McKay, corporate and "Opportunity Scholarships," which
are for children in public schools that repeatedly receive F ratings
under Bush's plan to improve public schools. According to DOE
whistle-blower Robert Metty, the school kept voucher money even after
children had returned to Miami-Dade public schools.
-----The virtual school program, in which the DOE allowed two
for-profit companies to enroll kindergartners and first-graders who
had not previously been in a Florida public school, despite a law that
prohibited such students. Although it's not a voucher program, the
companies receive as much as $4.8 million in state money to teach
1,000 students via the Internet.
"Overall, the Department of Education's failure to assign leadership
to (these programs), combined with the absence of active participation
in program management, has created a lack of accountability and has
put the success of these vital school choice programs at risk," Chief
Financial Officer Tom Gallagher said in a cover letter to Philip
Handy, chairman of the state Board of Education.
Gallagher, who for two years served as the state's education
commissioner, began the audit in August, based on voucher program
abuses reported in The Palm Beach Post.
Among the other findings listed in his cover letter and 22 pages of
two reports:
-----The DOE had, for months, inaccurately claimed that it was keeping
track of which students were attending which schools through which
voucher programs. "Contrary to information provided by DOE, prior to
October 2003, no system existed for tracking funding by student," the
report said.
-----There are "numerous" cases of families receiving both a McKay and
a corporate tax credit voucher. A source familiar with the
investigation said that the extra money sometimes went into the
parent's pocket -- something the law does not allow.
-----There are "instances where private schools have deposited
scholarship checks when the student was actually enrolled in the
public school system."
The reports -- one for corporate vouchers, and the other for McKay and
failing school vouchers -- make 12 recommendations to lawmakers to
tighten laws to curb abuses and 24 recommendations to the state Board
of Education to write rules to similarly set financial and educational
standards.
Bush's office did not return phone calls Thursday, but his education
commissioner, Jim Horne, issued a statement saying that he is already
working to implement many of the recommendations in Gallagher's
reports.
"We agree that more accountability is vital," Horne said.
Phone calls to Silver Archer founder James K. Isenhour and Castle Oak
were not answered.
The director of the Heritage Schools could not be reached for comment.
'Irregularities' cited
Patrick Heffernan, head of FloridaChild, said he was confidant his
group would be cleared.
"I'm not worried about this in the least," he said. "We haven't done
anything wrong."
But the report said, "We reviewed the six funded SFOs (scholarship
funding organizations) authorized by DOE. We were able to conclude
that five SFOs maintained processes to accomplish program objectives
and that program funding was used to pay scholarships. However, during
our FloridaChild review, the following irregularities were noted," and
then the report lists nine "irregularities," which it was referring to
the Office of Fiscal Integrity.
The report found that FloridaChild:
-----"Has not maintained a system of budgeting and cash management.
FloridaChild has borrowed $5.2 million on a line of credit with
SunTrust Bank... The most significant problem is that future corporate
contributions are obligated to pay the liability... This also violates
the securing of corporate contributions to meet current needs. The
scholarship base should not be leveraged."
-----"Has received $1.85 million in funds from other SFOs in order to
fund the scholarship base. This violates the law where each SFO
secures funds for the current need."
-----"Employs the honor system of attendance reporting from private
schools prior to disbursing funds."
-----"Sent a letter to each school requesting 2 percent of the
scholarship funding awarded be provided as a donation to fund
administrative expenses."
Heffernan acknowledged sending letters to schools, but said he saw
nothing wrong in trying to raise money from them for administrative
expenses.
He unsuccessfully tried this spring to change the law to allow
scholarship groups to keep 2 percent of each corporate tax credit
voucher -- $64 on a $3,200 voucher, which would have netted
FloridaChild $360,000 this year.
The $5.2 million line of credit became an issue this spring when
corporations failed to provide that much in promised "donations."
Corporations receive a dollar-for-dollar tax credit for money they
give to the scholarship groups.
FloridaChild officials said the effect of the default was to force the
wealthy guarantors of the bank loan to sacrifice that much in
collateral -- thereby saving Florida taxpayers $5.2 million in unused
tax credits.
But a source familiar with the probe said privately that FloridaChild
may have attempted to use corporate donations from this school year to
pay off a debt incurred last year -- something that is not permitted
by the law.
Department whistle-blower Metty said Thursday that he proposed many of
the ideas in Gallagher's reports more than a year ago, but was opposed
by Horne and his top deputies because of pressure from the scholarship
funding groups.
For example, The Post reported in July that department correspondence
showed that Metty had attempted to institute a database to track
students and scholarship groups and schools -- only to be rejected by
department general counsel Daniel Woodring.
"I told them so," said Metty, who was demoted from his position as
director of scholarship programs after he filed a complaint accusing a
colleague of altering public records.
The DOE later ruled the complaint unfounded.
"I'll just walk into work with a sign on my shirt saying: 'I told you
so.' "
Bankrupt recipient probed
The Post also reported in August that Castle Oaks Academy was charging
as much as 50 percent of the value of McKay vouchers -- which are
generally worth about $6,800 but can be worth as much as $21,000 -- as
overhead for its home-schooling parents.
The paper reported three months later that as many as 380 students
were receiving McKay and corporate tax credit vouchers for full- or
part-time home-schooling, something lawmakers never intended.
Also in August, The Post found that James K. Isenhour, despite a
personal bankruptcy, was able to collect as much as $400,000 in
voucher money that was funneled through his similarly bankrupt
correspondence school, Cambridge Academy.
His case is under investigation by Gallagher, the Florida Department
of Law Enforcement and the Marion County state attorney.
In November, the paper found that the state's new virtual school
program had, because of an interpretation by DOE's Woodring, permitted
Virginia-based Florida Virtual Academy and Maryland-based Connections
Academy to enroll kindergartners and first-graders who had never
attended a public school. State law clearly stated otherwise.
Horne has since then admitted the error but has insisted that the
state should pay for the children.
---
Yes, George W. Bush is an unelected baby killing fascist dictator.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/graphics/packageart/bush/bush_tsg.mov
(Audio file of the fascist dictator speaking. A must listen.)
.
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| User: "ZenIsWhen" |
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| Title: Re: Florida's "school voucher" fraud sparks criminal investigations |
14 Dec 2003 04:06:44 AM |
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"Fredric L. Rice" <FRice@SkepticTank.ORG> wrote in message
news:vtn4fra3ujma1f@corp.supernews.com...
The relight right wing extremists in the United States have been
pushing for hand outs to religious cults from tax payer's pockets
for the past three decades. Ruled unconstitutional everywhere
else in the country, Florida some how manages to continue to
violate the Constitution.
You're surprised?
This is typical of republicans and their "privatization" programs!
.
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: Florida's "school voucher" fraud sparks criminal investigations |
15 Dec 2003 07:24:54 AM |
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"ZenIsWhen" <ZenIsWhen@anywhere.com> wrote:
"Fredric L. Rice" <FRice@SkepticTank.ORG> wrote in message
news:vtn4fra3ujma1f@corp.supernews.com...
The relight right wing extremists in the United States have been
pushing for hand outs to religious cults from tax payer's pockets
for the past three decades. Ruled unconstitutional everywhere
else in the country, Florida some how manages to continue to
violate the Constitution.
You're surprised?
This is typical of republicans and their "privatization" programs!
I'm not surprised. }:-} When things are managed by the government there's
the same amount of corruption and illegal scams and frauds going on with
the public funds. When the fascists "privatize" give-away to their
friends, they have a harder time getting away with the crimes, I think.
There's less of a good ole boys network that quashes criminal charges in
the alleged private sector.
---
Yes, George W. Bush is an unelected baby killing fascist dictator.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/graphics/packageart/bush/bush_tsg.mov
(Audio file of the fascist dictator speaking. A must listen.)
.
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| User: "ZenIsWhen" |
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| Title: Re: Florida's "school voucher" fraud sparks criminal investigations |
14 Dec 2003 10:14:39 PM |
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"Fredric L. Rice" <FRice@SkepticTank.ORG> wrote in message
news:vtq35618d9q863@corp.supernews.com...
"ZenIsWhen" <ZenIsWhen@anywhere.com> wrote:
"Fredric L. Rice" <FRice@SkepticTank.ORG> wrote in message
news:vtn4fra3ujma1f@corp.supernews.com...
The relight right wing extremists in the United States have been
pushing for hand outs to religious cults from tax payer's pockets
for the past three decades. Ruled unconstitutional everywhere
else in the country, Florida some how manages to continue to
violate the Constitution.
You're surprised?
This is typical of republicans and their "privatization" programs!
I'm not surprised. }:-} When things are managed by the government
there's
the same amount of corruption and illegal scams and frauds going on with
the public funds. When the fascists "privatize" give-away to their
friends, they have a harder time getting away with the crimes, I think.
There's less of a good ole boys network that quashes criminal charges in
the alleged private sector.
How many corporate CEOs have you seen go to prison - even when their
corporations actions cost lives?
I think the post showed the false idealistic claims that republicans put on
"vouchers" as teh perfect "cure all" for the whole educational system.
There was reason to expect that the people standing to gain (legally or
illegally) from the voucher system (just like Halliburton and Bush) were
fighting hard to get the programs in place.
Profit was the prime motivator - not children's education.
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: Florida's "school voucher" fraud sparks criminal investigations |
14 Dec 2003 07:45:05 PM |
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Fredric L. Rice wrote:
"ZenIsWhen" <ZenIsWhen@anywhere.com> wrote:
"Fredric L. Rice" <FRice@SkepticTank.ORG> wrote in message
news:vtn4fra3ujma1f@corp.supernews.com...
The relight right wing extremists in the United States have been
pushing for hand outs to religious cults from tax payer's pockets
for the past three decades. Ruled unconstitutional everywhere
else in the country, Florida some how manages to continue to
violate the Constitution.
You're surprised?
This is typical of republicans and their "privatization" programs!
I'm not surprised. }:-} When things are managed by the government there's
the same amount of corruption and illegal scams and frauds going on with
the public funds. When the fascists "privatize" give-away to their
friends, they have a harder time getting away with the crimes, I think.
There's less of a good ole boys network that quashes criminal charges in
the alleged private sector.
You don't know what you are talking about. In the district I teach in,
such a misuse of public monies would never go unnoticed. We have five
school board members often at odds with each other. Our budget is
reviewed by the state. Our teachers' union goes through the budbet
every year in infinite detail as part of salary/benefits negotiation.
If you want to see fraud on a large scale, you've got to go to the
private sector. Defense contractors, oil companies, savings and loans,
all the big scams are private.
And the public sector? Look at Medicare as one example. "Medicare
spends between 2 percent and 3 percent of program outlays on
administrative expenses—such as overhead, salaries, and
computers—compared with around 9.5 percent in the private sector."
http://www.medicarewatch.org/2001Basic/Whats_Right-5.html
Enkidu
--
"Suppose we've chosen the wrong god. Every time we
go to church we're just making him madder and madder"
--Homer Simpson
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| User: "Malcolm Kirkpatrick" |
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| Title: Re: Florida's "school voucher" fraud sparks criminal investigations |
15 Dec 2003 01:32:13 AM |
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Enkidu wrote:...
Fredric L. Rice wrote:...
"ZenIsWhen" wrote:...
The relight right wing extremists in the United States have been
pushing for hand outs to religious cults from tax payer's pockets
for the past three decades. Ruled unconstitutional everywhere
else in the country, Florida some how manages to continue to
violate the Constitution.
You're surprised?
This is typical of republicans and their "privatization" programs!
I'm not surprised. }:-} When things are managed by the government there's
the same amount of corruption and illegal scams and frauds going on with
the public funds. When the fascists "privatize" give-away to their
friends, they have a harder time getting away with the crimes, I think.
There's less of a good ole boys network that quashes criminal charges in
the alleged private sector.
You don't know what you are talking about. In the district I teach in,
such a misuse of public monies would never go unnoticed. We have five
school board members often at odds with each other. Our budget is
reviewed by the state. Our teachers' union goes through the budbet
every year in infinite detail as part of salary/benefits negotiation.
If you want to see fraud on a large scale, you've got to go to the
private sector. Defense contractors, oil companies, savings and loans,
all the big scams are private.
And the public sector? Look at Medicare as one example. "Medicare
spends between 2 percent and 3 percent of program outlays on
administrative expenses—such as overhead, salaries, and
computers—compared with around 9.5 percent in the private sector."
MK. The longest-running, most lucrative fraud in US history is the
"public school" system. US taxpayers spend over $340 billion/year for
State-worshipful indoctrination. This is not necesaary. Thomas Edison
was homeschooled. Yehudi Menuhin was homeschooled. Benjamin Franklin
was apprenticed at 12, after two years of school. David ("Damn the
torpedos") Farragut joined the US navy at 9 and went to sea at 10. The
education industry is not a natural monopoly, and beyond some very low
level, there are no economies of scale at the delivery end of the
education business. These are the two usual arguments for State
operation of an industry. Education only marginally qualifies as a
"public good" as economists use the term, and the "public goods"
argument implies State subsidy and regulation, at most, not State
operation of schools. The State is in an obvious conflict of interest
when it simultaneously operates and regulates schools. Education has
become an employment program for dues-paying members of the
NEA/AFT/AFSCME cartel. This is why schools measure "credits", student
performance, by time in class. A "year of Math" makes as much sense as
a pound of History or a square foot of Latin. If school is not a jobs
program for government employees and a slush fund for politically
connected contractors, why cannot students satisfy all graduation
requirements credit-by-exam, for a grade? Why cannot all students take
the GED at any age and take the taxpayers' K-12 education subsidy to
any post-secondary institution? Do you have a taxonomy which assigns
industries to various categories, State-operated, State regulated,
State subsidized, unregulated, forbidden (e.g., recreational drugs)?
Why --should-- the State operate schools and not barber shops or
newspapers? The government of Ireland subsidizes a parent's choice of
school, and 90% of school-age children take the taxpayers' pre-college
education subsidy to independent schools.
MK. I clipped this from the US Department of Labor website.
.......................................
On October 15, 2003, in the United States District Court for the
District of Columbia, Errol Alderman, a District of Columbia
government employee, pled guilty to one count of conspiracy to launder
money from the Washington Teachers' Union. Alderman and Michael Martin
(who pled guilty to money laundering on April 11, 2003) laundered more
than $480,000 through a shell corporation called Expressions
Unlimited. Alderman admitted to receiving more than $47,000 in union
checks, which he returned to Martin to be given to former union
president, Barbara Bullock (who pled guilty to conspiracy and mail
fraud on October 7, 2003), and a union employee. The guilty plea is
part of an ongoing investigation of the Washington Teachers Union by
the OLMS Washington District Office, the FBI, the IRS and the United
States Attorney's Office.
........................................
MK. USSC. Beck versus Communication Workers of Americs: workers in an
agency shop situation may be required to pay no more than the cost of
collective barganing and contract enforcement.
Chicago Teachers Union versus Hudson: The procedure, whereby the
employer decucts from an agency-fee payer's paycheck the equivalent of
dues and the union later gives to the employee an application for a
rebate of the difference between dues and allowable costs is illegal,
since this compels the worker to make an interest-free loan to the
union.
Abood versus Detroit Board of Education: The burden of proof is
on the union, not the employee, to justify fees assessed to agency fee
payers.
Miller versus Air Line Pilots' Association: Workers who dispute
the union's assessment do not need to pursue their grievance through
the Labor Relations Board, but may take their dispute directly to the
federal court.
MK. Additionally, Federal courts have ruled a) that workers with
religious objections to union membership may substitute a contribution
to charity for the union dues and b) the "religion" does not require
belief in God. Confucianism, a civic religion, for example, qualifies
as a religion.
MK. Students, parents, real classroom teachers, and taxpayers would
gain from a competitive education market. Only incompetent teachers
and the out-of-classroom parasites who infest large school districts
would lose.
Enkidu
Malcolm Kirkpatrick
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| User: "ZenIsWhen" |
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| Title: Re: Florida's "school voucher" fraud sparks criminal investigations |
15 Dec 2003 10:52:19 AM |
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"Malcolm Kirkpatrick" <malcolmkirkpatrick@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dfbfc9b9.0312142332.10df0abe@posting.google.com...
Enkidu wrote:...
Fredric L. Rice wrote:...
"ZenIsWhen" wrote:...
The relight right wing extremists in the United States have been
pushing for hand outs to religious cults from tax payer's pockets
for the past three decades. Ruled unconstitutional everywhere
else in the country, Florida some how manages to continue to
violate the Constitution.
You're surprised?
This is typical of republicans and their "privatization" programs!
I'm not surprised. }:-} When things are managed by the government
there's
the same amount of corruption and illegal scams and frauds going on
with
the public funds. When the fascists "privatize" give-away to their
friends, they have a harder time getting away with the crimes, I
think.
There's less of a good ole boys network that quashes criminal charges
in
the alleged private sector.
You don't know what you are talking about. In the district I teach in,
such a misuse of public monies would never go unnoticed. We have five
school board members often at odds with each other. Our budget is
reviewed by the state. Our teachers' union goes through the budbet
every year in infinite detail as part of salary/benefits negotiation.
If you want to see fraud on a large scale, you've got to go to the
private sector. Defense contractors, oil companies, savings and loans,
all the big scams are private.
And the public sector? Look at Medicare as one example. "Medicare
spends between 2 percent and 3 percent of program outlays on
administrative expenses—such as overhead, salaries, and
computers—compared with around 9.5 percent in the private sector."
MK. The longest-running, most lucrative fraud in US history is the
"public school" system.
The longest-running, most lucrative fraud in WORLD history is the
religion.
US taxpayers spend over $340 billion/year for
State-worshipful indoctrination.
Oh. and I'll bet you think it's all a conspiracy too.........
This is not necesaary. Thomas Edison
was homeschooled. Yehudi Menuhin was homeschooled. Benjamin Franklin
was apprenticed at 12, after two years of school. David ("Damn the
torpedos") Farragut joined the US navy at 9 and went to sea at 10.
You're kidding .I hope.......
There isn't enough room here to list the people who have made significant
contributions to society, and achieved greatness, after going through a
"public" school system.
The
education industry is not a natural monopoly,
No one ever said it was, moron!
and beyond some very low
level, there are no economies of scale at the delivery end of the
education business. These are the two usual arguments for State
operation of an industry.
No, they are not ...... they are just inventions of your confused mind!
Education only marginally qualifies as a
"public good" as economists use the term, and the "public goods"
argument implies State subsidy and regulation, at most, not State
operation of schools.
That's why locally elected school boards actually run the school system.
Can't you get anything right?
.
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| User: "Malcolm Kirkpatrick" |
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| Title: Re: Florida's "school voucher" fraud sparks criminal investigations |
15 Dec 2003 06:55:07 PM |
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"ZenIsWhen" wrote:..
Malcolm Kirkpatrick wrote:...
MK. Discussion deleted (School vouchers and the NEA/AFT/AFSCME
cartel)...
This is not necessary. Thomas Edison was homeschooled. Yehudi Menuhin was > homeschooled. Benjamin Franklin was apprenticed at 12, after two years of > school. David ("Damn the torpedos") Farragut joined the US navy at 9 and > went to sea at 10.
You're kidding .I hope.......
There isn't enough room here to list the people who have made significant
contributions to society, and achieved greatness, after going through a
"public" school system.
MK. Sure. Some people will succeed in any system (not the same
people). The question then is how systematic differences in the
structure of the education industry (compulsory between age A and B,
in schools of size H, districts of size K, curriculum thus and so,
etc) relate to the distribution of measures of system performance.
http://www.rru.com/~meo/hs.minski.html (One page. Marvin Minsky
comment on school. Please read this.)
The education industry is not a natural monopoly,...
MK. Ad hominem deleted...
...and beyond some very low level, there are no economies of scale at the > > delivery end of the education business. These are the two usual arguments > > for State operation of an industry.
No, they are not ...... they are just inventions of your confused mind!
MK. I recommend that readers assess this difference between the
emotionally involved "Zen..." and MK after browsing through a few
public finace and/or welfare economics texts. When --should-- policy
analysts recommend a State takeover of an industry? The Marxist says
"always" and the Libertarian says "never". Mainstream economists fall
between these extremes. See the introduction to E.G. West's "School
Vouchers in Principle and Practice" in the __World Bank Research
Observer__ of Feb. 1997. It's online. Google-search "World Bank
Research Observer" and click on "archive".
Education only marginally qualifies as a "public good" as economists use > > the term, and the "public goods" argument implies State subsidy and > > regulation, at most, not State operation of schools.
That's why locally elected school boards actually run the school system.
Can't you get anything right?
MK. I use "State" to mean "government", generally. As in Engles' __The
Evolution of the Family, Private Property, and the State__, and in
E.G. West's __Education and the State__.
Take care. Homeschool if you can.
http://www.schoolchoices.org (Massive site. Useful links).
http://www.friedmanfoundation.org/index.html
http://www.libertyindia.org/pdfs/tooley_education.pdf
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/egwest/
http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=11606 (School Reform News
on Sweden's school voucher policy)
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: Florida's "school voucher" fraud sparks criminal investigations |
15 Dec 2003 08:15:09 PM |
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(Malcolm Kirkpatrick) wrote:
MK. The longest-running, most lucrative fraud in US history is the
"public school" system. US taxpayers spend over $340 billion/year for
State-worshipful indoctrination. This is not necesaary.
And religious cults rake in _trillions_ every year. Cults are the biggest
fraud and scam out there bar none.
---
Yes, George W. Bush is an unelected baby killing fascist dictator.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/graphics/packageart/bush/bush_tsg.mov
(Audio file of the fascist dictator speaking. A must listen.)
.
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| User: "Malcolm Kirkpatrick" |
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| Title: Re: Florida's "school voucher" fraud sparks criminal investigations |
16 Dec 2003 01:09:46 AM |
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Fredric L. Rice wrote:..
Malcolm Kirkpatrick wrote:...
MK. The longest-running, most lucrative fraud in US history is the
"public school" system. US taxpayers spend over $340 billion/year for
State-worshipful indoctrination. This is not necesaary.
And religious cults rake in _trillions_ every year. Cults are the biggest
fraud and scam out there bar none.
MK. I was tempted to qualify my assertion about public education with
some mention of religion. I was raised in no church and consider
myself a devout materialist. Is religion is as lucrative as Mr. Rice
asserts? "Trillions" sounds like an exaggeration. I could be wrong.
People seem instinctively driven to make sense of the world. Religion
provides an explanation. I'm not so sure that it's a fraud, if it
helps people get through life.
Yes, George W. Bush is an unelected baby killing fascist dictator.
MK. a) George Bush won the first (machine) count in Florida. He won
the second (machine re-) count. He was ahead in the third, illegal
(hand) recount. He won. b) Please read Mussolini's essay "What is
Fascism?" People frequently use "fascist" to mean "authoritarian".
That's not right. A government might be severely repressive of civil
liberties and undemocratic without being fascist. Fascism is a
socialism variant.
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| User: "Malcolm Kirkpatrick" |
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| Title: Re: Florida's "school voucher" fraud sparks criminal investigations |
14 Dec 2003 08:04:44 PM |
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"ZenIsWhen" wrote:...
"Fredric L. Rice" wrote:..
The relight right wing extremists in the United States have been
pushing for hand outs to religious cults from tax payer's pockets
for the past three decades. Ruled unconstitutional everywhere
else in the country, Florida some how manages to continue to
violate the Constitution.
You're surprised?
This is typical of republicans and their "privatization" programs!
MK. 1) School vouchers are US constitutional (Milwaukee, Cleveland),
and State-level school voucher legislation which disqualified all and
only religious schools would discriminate against religion, yes? 2)
Note that the supposedly blistering criticism of Florida's school
voucher program did not describe a comparative cost-benefit analysis,
independent schools versus government schools. Countries which
subsidize a parent's choice of school outperform countries which
restrict a parent's options for the use of the taxpayers pre-college
education subsidy to schools operated by government employees. Parent
control, the power of unhappy customers to take their business
elsewhere, is the most effective accountability mechanism humans have
yet discovered.
Take care. Homeschool if you can.
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| User: "ZenIsWhen" |
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| Title: Re: Florida's "school voucher" fraud sparks criminal investigations |
14 Dec 2003 10:09:27 PM |
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"Malcolm Kirkpatrick" <malcolmkirkpatrick@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dfbfc9b9.0312141804.1ef26356@posting.google.com...
"ZenIsWhen" wrote:...
"Fredric L. Rice" wrote:..
The relight right wing extremists in the United States have been
pushing for hand outs to religious cults from tax payer's pockets
for the past three decades. Ruled unconstitutional everywhere
else in the country, Florida some how manages to continue to
violate the Constitution.
You're surprised?
This is typical of republicans and their "privatization" programs!
MK. 1) School vouchers are US constitutional (Milwaukee, Cleveland),
1: Your response has nothing to do with my statement!
2:A few, in special instances, have been allowed.
The MAJORITY have been declared unconstitutional
and State-level school voucher legislation which disqualified all and
only religious schools would discriminate against religion, yes?
What?
This makes no sense!
2)
Note that the supposedly blistering criticism of Florida's school
voucher program did not describe a comparative cost-benefit analysis,
independent schools versus government schools.
That wasn't the point of the article.
Did you READ the article?
Did you COMPREHEND the article?
Countries which
subsidize a parent's choice of school outperform countries which
restrict a parent's options for the use of the taxpayers pre-college
education subsidy to schools operated by government employees.
Cites?
Parent
control, the power of unhappy customers to take their business
elsewhere, is the most effective accountability mechanism humans have
yet discovered.
Obviously you have not had the pleasure of dealing with HMOs!
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| User: "Malcolm Kirkpatrick" |
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| Title: Re: Florida's "school voucher" fraud sparks criminal investigations |
15 Dec 2003 07:15:02 PM |
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"ZenIsWhen" wrote:...
Malcolm Kirkpatrick wrote:...
The relight right wing extremists in the United States have been
pushing for hand outs to religious cults from tax payer's pockets
for the past three decades. Ruled unconstitutional everywhere
else in the country, Florida some how manages to continue to
violate the Constitution.
You're surprised?
This is typical of republicans and their "privatization" programs!
MK. 1) School vouchers are US constitutional (Milwaukee, Cleveland),
1: Your response has nothing to do with my statement!
MK. Milwaukee and Cleveland provide counterexamples to the assertion
that school vouchers were "(r)uled unconstitutional --everywhere--..."
2:A few, in special instances, have been allowed.
The MAJORITY have been declared unconstitutional
MK. Constitutional law evolves. The USSC revisits issues and corrects
mistakes, or "separate but equal" would still be constitutional.
and State-level school voucher legislation which disqualified all and
only religious schools would discriminate against religion, yes?
What? This makes no sense!
MK. Some lawyers disagree.
* MAINE: The first challenge to a state constitution after U.S.
Supreme Court's June choice ruling is now set. Several Pine Tree
State parents, tired of the state's tuitioning program that includes
all schools but those that are religious, have filed suit. For almost
100 years Maine has permitted students in districts too small to
support their own high schools to receive tuition to attend public,
private, in-state or out-of-state schools of their choice. In 1981,
however, a law was passed excluding religious schools from the
program. This directly contradicts the Supreme Court's June ruling
that choices made by parents to send their children to religious
schools using per-pupil allotments of public funds is constitutional.
Moreover, a law that excludes schools from a program simply because
they are religious clearly discriminates against religious
institutions, and is therefore unconstitutional. This case could be
an important bellwether for attempts to roll back anti-choice laws in
other states. We'll be watching it closely.
To read details and analysis of the Supreme Court's ruling in the
Cleveland voucher case, go to
http://www.edreform.org/press/2002/ohiovictory.htm.
2)
Note that the supposedly blistering criticism of Florida's school
voucher program did not describe a comparative cost-benefit analysis,
independent schools versus government schools.
That wasn't the point of the article.
Did you READ the article?
Did you COMPREHEND the article?
MK. Sure. But you have to compare something to something.
Countries which subsidize a parent's choice of school outperform countries > > which restrict a parent's options for the use of the taxpayers pre-college
education subsidy to schools operated by government employees.
Cites?
MK. TIMSS __Mathematics Education in the Middle School Years__, OECD
__Education at a Glance__. Also...
Gerard Lassibile and Lucia Navarro Gomez, ["Organization and
Efficiency of Educational Systems: some empirical findings", pg. 16,
"Comparative Education", Vol. 36 #1, Feb 2000]. "Furthermore, the
regression results indicate that countries where private education is
more widespread perform significantly better than countries where it
is more limited. The result showing the private sector to be more
efficient is similar to those found in other contexts with individual
data (see, for example, Psucharopoulos, 1987; Jiminez, et. al, 1991).
This finding should convince countries to reconsider policies that
reduce the role of the private sector in the field of education".
Parent control, the power of unhappy customers to take their business
elsewhere, is the most effective accountability mechanism humans have
yet discovered.
Obviously you have not had the pleasure of dealing with HMOs!
MK. No mechanism is perfect. Giving all power to the goons with the
guns (the State) is a recipe for disaster.
"If the government would make up its mind to require for every child a
good education, it might save itself the trouble of providing one. It
might leave to parents to obtain the education where and how they
pleased, and content itself with helping to pay the school fees of the
poorer classes of children, and defraying the entire school expense of
those who have no one else to pay for them." -- J.S. Mill, On Liberty
Take care. Homeschool if you can.
http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=11606 (School Reform News
on Sweden's school voucher policy)
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/press.office/newslink/index.html?ref=1057673220
http://www.edreform.com/_upload/NineLies.pdf.
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| User: "Will" |
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| Title: Re: Florida's "school voucher" fraud sparks criminal investigations |
15 Dec 2003 03:50:59 AM |
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(Malcolm Kirkpatrick) wrote in message news:<dfbfc9b9.0312141804.1ef26356@posting.google.com>...
"ZenIsWhen" wrote:...
"Fredric L. Rice" wrote:..
The relight right wing extremists in the United States have been
pushing for hand outs to religious cults from tax payer's pockets
for the past three decades. Ruled unconstitutional everywhere
else in the country, Florida some how manages to continue to
violate the Constitution.
You're surprised?
This is typical of republicans and their "privatization" programs!
MK. 1) School vouchers are US constitutional (Milwaukee, Cleveland),
and State-level school voucher legislation which disqualified all and
only religious schools would discriminate against religion, yes?
There is no such thing as descrimination against religion, and no
constitutional guarantee that religion or religions will share equally
anything with the secular side of government
2)
Note that the supposedly blistering criticism of Florida's school
voucher program did not describe a comparative cost-benefit analysis,
independent schools versus government schools.
Perhaps you could provide us with one. And when you do, find a private
school that takes everyone, not just a select handful of upper class
kids.
Countries which
subsidize a parent's choice of school outperform countries which
restrict a parent's options for the use of the taxpayers pre-college
education subsidy to schools operated by government employees.
Name one, and tell us how they "out perform."
Parent
control, the power of unhappy customers to take their business
elsewhere, is the most effective accountability mechanism humans have
yet discovered.
No, it's not. Poor parents haven't the means to send their children
out of lousy neighborhoods to the suburbs. For competition to work it
has to be free, fair and accessable. Vouchers only exist to subsidize
middle and upper middle class white families who want their children
to attend either religious schools or schools with a very low
percentage of minorities. It's basically a genteel form of reinstating
racial segregation. The poor kids, who might really benefit from
better schools, find the process almost impossible to accommodate.
That's why, in Jeb Bush's Florida, most poor children who experimented
with using vouchers to go to better rated schools, gave up. It was
expensive, difficult and time consuming to make the trip, and the kids
were treated as if they were diseased both by the other children and
by the faculty.
Take care. Homeschool if you can.
Lousy solution. Most homeschooled children are eventually returned to
public school. Our public schools are fine, despite the lies and
paranoia of homeschoolers and fundies.
Will
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| User: "Malcolm Kirkpatrick" |
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| Title: Re: Florida's "school voucher" fraud sparks criminal investigations |
15 Dec 2003 07:51:07 PM |
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Will wrote:...
Malcolm Kirkpatrick wrote:...
"ZenIsWhen" wrote:...
MK. Discussion deleted (school vouchers and the NEA/AFT/AFSCME
cartel)...
MK. 1) School vouchers are US constitutional (Milwaukee, Cleveland),
and State-level school voucher legislation which disqualified all and
only religious schools would discriminate against religion, yes?
There is no such thing as descrimination against religion, and no
constitutional guarantee that religion or religions will share equally
anything with the secular side of government
MK. This is not a simple argument. Sometimes the "establishment"
clause and the "free exercise" clause conflict. The USSC has held that
it is impermissable for a school to permit politically oriented
student clubs access to school facilities and to deny religiously
oriented groups access. So there --is-- discrimination against
"religion" generally and there --is-- a constitutional prohibition of
it.
2)
Note that the supposedly blistering criticism of Florida's school
voucher program did not describe a comparative cost-benefit analysis,
independent schools versus government schools.
Perhaps you could provide us with one. And when you do, find a private
school that takes everyone, not just a select handful of upper class
kids.
MK. The articles cited in the passage below compare independent and
parochial schools to State schools. See also Herman Brutsaert's study
comparing State schools to parochial schools in Belgium, in
__Comparative Education__. As to whether a school "takes everyone":
State schools in the US discriminate on the basis of race (it's called
"assignment by district"),ability (magnet schools), and behavior
(suspension). Whatever options the State school system offers remain
after enactment of school voucher legislation expands a parent's
options for the use of the taxpayers' K-12 education subsidy to
schools outside the NEA/AFT/AFSCME cartel.
MK. Gerard Lassibile and Lucia Navarro Gomez, ["Organization and
Efficiency of Educational Systems: some empirical findings", pg. 16,
"Comparative Education", Vol. 36 #1, Feb 2000]. "Furthermore, the
regression results indicate that countries where private education is
more widespread perform significantly better than countries where it
is more limited. The result showing the private sector to be more
efficient is similar to those found in other contexts with individual
data (see, for example, Psucharopoulos, 1987; Jiminez, et. al, 1991).
This finding should convince countries to reconsider policies that
reduce the role of the private sector in the field of education".
MK. I reason axiomatically, here. 1). Most parents love their children
and want their children to outlive them. 2) If you live among people
there are basically three ways to make a living: i) you can beg, ii)
you can steal, iii) you can trade goods and services for other
peoples' goods and services. 3) Most parents accept #2 and prefer
2.iii for their children. 4)Therefore, most parents want what
taxpayers want from any education system: that children be educated to
be contributing members of society.
Countries which
subsidize a parent's choice of school outperform countries which
restrict a parent's options for the use of the taxpayers pre-college
education subsidy to schools operated by government employees.
Name one, and tell us how they "out perform."
MK. Singapore. The 5th (fifth) percentile score (TIMSS 8th grade Math)
is higher than the US 50th (fiftieth) percentile score. Singapore
spends about half what US taxpayers spend, per pupil. Also Belgium,
Ireland, Hong Kong and the Neherlands spend less per pupil and achieve
higher TIMSS Math and Science scores.
Parent control, the power of unhappy customers to take their business
elsewhere, is the most effective accountability mechanism humans have
yet discovered.
No, it's not. Poor parents haven't the means to send their children
out of lousy neighborhoods to the suburbs...
MK. A $4,000 tuition voucher puts a %6,000 independent school within
reach of a parent who can afford $2,000. Also, it's not always the
neighborhoods which are lousy. Sometimes it's only the schools.
For competition to work it has to be free, fair and accessable...
MK. Why? "Work" is a matter of degree. As the dollar amount of the
school voucher increases, the range of options available to poor
parents increases. The trouble with the requirement that competition
be "fair" is that the politically dominant group (usually the
NEA/AFT/AFSCME cartel) will impose a crippling definition of "fair".
Vouchers only exist to subsidize middle and upper middle class white families > who want their children to attend either religious schools or schools with a > very low percentage of minorities. It's basically a genteel form of > reinstating racial segregation. The poor kids, who might really benefit from
better schools, find the process almost impossible to accommodate.
MK. Support for school vouchers is higher among minorities than among
whites, according to a survey published by the US DOE NCES. Support
for school vouchers is inversely related to family income. See the
parties to the appeal of the Colorado school voucher decision. Black
and Hispanic groups support school vouchers. Political control of
school harms most the children of the least politically adept groups.
That's why, in Jeb Bush's Florida, most poor children who experimented
with using vouchers to go to better rated schools, gave up. It was
expensive, difficult and time consuming to make the trip, and the kids
were treated as if they were diseased both by the other children and
by the faculty.
Take care. Homeschool if you can.
Lousy solution. Most homeschooled children are eventually returned to
public school. Our public schools are fine, despite the lies and
paranoia of homeschoolers and fundies.
MK. a) Where does Will get the data in support of the assertion that
"most" homeschoolers eventually return to public school? b) Even if
TIMSS and other measures didn't find US students lagging students in
other industrial democracies, I would prefer to see either 1) no State
role in education or 2) a policy which gave to parents the power to
determine which institution shall receive the taxayers' K-12 education
subsidy. State-operated schools pose the same threat to democracy that
State-operated newspapers pose.
"The aim of public education is not to spread enlightenment at all; it
is simply to reduce as many individuals as possible to the same safe
level, to breed a standard citizenry, to put down dissent and
originality. School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
span of human existence. They are full of dull, unintelligible tasks,
new and
unpleasant ordinances, and brutal violations of common sense and
common decency." --H.L. Mencken
"The terrifying thing about modern dictatorships is that they are
something entirely unprecedented. Their end cannot be foreseen. In the
past, every tyranny was sooner or later overthrown, or at least
resisted because of "human nature," which as a matter of course
desired liberty. But we cannot be at all certain that human nature is
constant. It may be just as possible to produce a breed of men who do
not wish for liberty as to produce a breed of hornless cows. The
Inquisition failed, but then the Inquisition had not the resources of
the nodern state. The radio, press censorship, standardized education
and the secret police have alterted everything. Mass suggestion is a
science of the last twenty years, and we do not know how successful it
will be." --George Orwell-- "Review of 'Russia under Soviet Rule' by
N. de Basily" (__Essays__,George Orwell, Knopf, 2002).
"One has only to to think of the sinister possibilities of the radio,
State-controlled education, and so forth, to realize that 'the truth
is great and will prevail' is a prayer rather than an axiom." --George
Orwell [Review of "Power; A New Social Analysis" by Bertrand Russell].
http://www.rru.com/~meo/hs.minski.html (One page. Marvin Minsky
comment on school. Please read this.)
http://www.schoolchoices.org (Massive site. Useful links).
http://www.friedmanfoundation.org/index.html
http://www.educationpolicy.org
http://www.policyreview.org/APR02/andrews.html
http://www.cato.org/current/school-choice/index.html
http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/shared/readmore.asp?sNav=pb&id=289
http://www.designsforchange.org/pubs/LSCresearch_feb02/LSCindex.html
http://www.educationnext.org/20014/68.html
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