| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Elroy Willis" |
| Date: |
29 Mar 2007 06:47:41 AM |
| Object: |
Flying Christians |
I watched a show on PBS the other night about levitation, and it
mentioned that dozens of Christians in the past claimed to be able to
float into the air and fly like birds. Wow.
In my many years around here, I've never heard of that before, so I
Googled around and found the following:
http://www.answers.com/topic/levitate
"The scene of the elevation of saints and ecstatics was most often the
altar in the church, and the state which seemed to condition it was
the deep trance-like state known as "rapture." St. Joseph of Copertino
experienced 15 levitations in front of images of the Holy Virgin; his
raptures in saying Mass were of frequent occurrence, and "his
ecstasies and ascensions were witnessed not only by the people and the
members of his order, but Pope Urban VIII saw him one day in this
state and was intensely astonished. Joseph, bethinking himself that he
was in the presence of the Vicar of Christ, fell into an ecstasy and
was raised above the ground."
Fr. K. A. Schmöger recounted the statement of stigmatist Anne
Catherine Emmerich (1774-1824): "When I was doing my work as
vestry-nun, I was often lifted up suddenly into the air, and I climbed
up and stood on the higher parts of the church, such as windows,
sculptured ornaments, jutting stones; I would clean and arrange
everything in places where it was humanly impossible. I felt myself
lifted and supported in the air, and I was not afraid in the least,
for I had been accustomed from a child to being assisted by my
guardian angel."
========
Do any Christians actually believe those stories, or are they an
embarrassment or known lies?
Why can't we get some modern video footage of such things
happening today? If they happened once, why not now?
My bet is those people never flew, they were just tranced out and
high as kites, so to speak, on their god. If video footage were
taken, they'd probably have their eyes closed and praying on the
ground, only imagining that they were flying. When they related the
feeling to other people, they left out the part about them being on
the ground, and only related the feeling of floating or flying. As
time went by, people added witnesses to the stories, and that's what
we have today.
There's also the possibility that some of them used trickery, like
modern magicians use, to simulate levitation.
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "Scott Richter" |
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| Title: Re: Flying Christians |
30 Mar 2007 11:18:55 AM |
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Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
Do any Christians actually believe those stories, or are they an
embarrassment or known lies?
File this under "Christians will believe ANYTHING!"
There probably are some Christians who thought "The Flying Nun" was a
based on an actual flying nun...
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Flying Christians |
30 Mar 2007 08:57:09 PM |
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On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 09:18:55 -0700, (Scott
Richter) wrote:
- Refer: <1hvs6lc.p7e4b11xs3g64N%>
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
Do any Christians actually believe those stories, or are they an
embarrassment or known lies?
File this under "Christians will believe ANYTHING!"
There probably are some Christians who thought "The Flying Nun" was a
based on an actual flying nun...
Erm, wasn't it?
--
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Flying Christians |
30 Mar 2007 12:56:02 AM |
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In article <ml8n03dcivn6ubl2tc785hjoqfccs0u83e@4ax.com>,
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
I watched a show on PBS the other night about levitation, and it
mentioned that dozens of Christians in the past claimed to be able to
float into the air and fly like birds. Wow.
Other than "The Flying Nun"?
In my many years around here, I've never heard of that before, so I
Googled around and found the following:
http://www.answers.com/topic/levitate
"The scene of the elevation of saints and ecstatics was most often the
altar in the church, and the state which seemed to condition it was
the deep trance-like state known as "rapture." St. Joseph of Copertino
experienced 15 levitations in front of images of the Holy Virgin; his
raptures in saying Mass were of frequent occurrence, and "his
ecstasies and ascensions were witnessed not only by the people and the
members of his order, but Pope Urban VIII saw him one day in this
state and was intensely astonished. Joseph, bethinking himself that he
was in the presence of the Vicar of Christ, fell into an ecstasy and
was raised above the ground."
Fr. K. A. Schmöger recounted the statement of stigmatist Anne
Catherine Emmerich (1774-1824): "When I was doing my work as
vestry-nun, I was often lifted up suddenly into the air, and I climbed
up and stood on the higher parts of the church, such as windows,
sculptured ornaments, jutting stones; I would clean and arrange
everything in places where it was humanly impossible. I felt myself
lifted and supported in the air, and I was not afraid in the least,
for I had been accustomed from a child to being assisted by my
guardian angel."
========
Do any Christians actually believe those stories, or are they an
embarrassment or known lies?
Even if they were, I doubt they would admit their embarrassment. They
would just cover it with bigger lies.
Why can't we get some modern video footage of such things
happening today? If they happened once, why not now?
My bet is those people never flew, they were just tranced out and
high as kites, so to speak, on their god. If video footage were
taken, they'd probably have their eyes closed and praying on the
ground, only imagining that they were flying. When they related the
feeling to other people, they left out the part about them being on
the ground, and only related the feeling of floating or flying. As
time went by, people added witnesses to the stories, and that's what
we have today.
More likely the whole thing was just made up.
There's also the possibility that some of them used trickery, like
modern magicians use, to simulate levitation.
That's possible too.
--
John #1782
"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be
white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."
- Saint Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556) Founder of the Jesuit Order.
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| User: "MarkA" |
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| Title: Re: Flying Christians |
29 Mar 2007 11:38:18 AM |
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On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 11:47:41 +0000, Elroy Willis wrote:
I watched a show on PBS the other night about levitation, and it mentioned
that dozens of Christians in the past claimed to be able to float into the
air and fly like birds. Wow.
Birds fly by being light, and having wings with a large enough surface
area that they can push against the air to lift themselves up. People
don't have wings, nor are they light relative to the surrounding air.
Therefore, the only way a human can levitate would be if he/she were no
longer subject to the force of gravity.
That seems simple enough on the surface, but consider that the Earth is
rotating, and following an elliptical path around the Sun. If you became
'immune' to gravity, you would immediately start to float away from the
surface of the Earth. If you were outside, you would float off into space
and die in very short order.
The other way to levitate would be if some force were exactly countering
the force of gravity, in which case you could 'hover' as long as the force
were applied. It seems to me unlikely that God would elect to float
people around, when He can't even be bothered to save 230,000 people from
the Indonesian tsunami.
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
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| User: "Smiler" |
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| Title: Re: Flying Christians |
29 Mar 2007 09:08:26 PM |
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"MarkA" <manthony@stopspam.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.03.29.16.38.18.2710@stopspam.net...
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 11:47:41 +0000, Elroy Willis wrote:
I watched a show on PBS the other night about levitation, and it
mentioned
that dozens of Christians in the past claimed to be able to float into
the
air and fly like birds. Wow.
Birds fly by being light, and having wings with a large enough surface
area that they can push against the air to lift themselves up. People
don't have wings, nor are they light relative to the surrounding air.
Therefore, the only way a human can levitate would be if he/she were no
longer subject to the force of gravity.
That seems simple enough on the surface, but consider that the Earth is
rotating, and following an elliptical path around the Sun. If you became
'immune' to gravity, you would immediately start to float away from the
surface of the Earth. If you were outside, you would float off into space
and die in very short order.
The other way to levitate would be if some force were exactly countering
the force of gravity, in which case you could 'hover' as long as the force
were applied. It seems to me unlikely that God would elect to float
people around, when He can't even be bothered to save 230,000 people from
the Indonesian tsunami.
A few years ago in the UK there was a political party called the Natural Law
Party.
They claimed to be able to do 'Yogic Flying'.
My reaction was "If I see one of them flying around in the open air (so that
there could be no trickery), I'll vote for them. Otherwise, I'll vote as I
originally intended".
I never did see any of them flying!
Smiler,
The godless one
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Flying Christians |
30 Mar 2007 05:52:32 AM |
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Smiler <Smiler@Joe.King.com> wrote in alt.atheism
<snip>
A few years ago in the UK there was a political party called the Natural Law
Party. They claimed to be able to do 'Yogic Flying'.
My reaction was "If I see one of them flying around in the open air (so that
there could be no trickery), I'll vote for them. Otherwise, I'll vote as I
originally intended".
I never did see any of them flying!
The show I watched actually showed some of the Yogi flyers. They
were actually just hopping up and down using their legs. Didn't get
more than a few inches off the ground.
Before they started flying, they were meditating, and had their eyes
closed the whole time they were hopping around. In their minds, they
seemed to believe they were actually flying, and had big smiles on
their faces. If that's not pure delusion, I don't know what is.
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Flying Christians |
30 Mar 2007 06:10:52 AM |
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MarkA <manthony@stopspam.net> wrote in alt.atheism
It seems to me unlikely that God would elect to float people
around, when He can't even be bothered to save 230,000 people
from the Indonesian tsunami.
He could've floated the people a few hundred feet in the air
until the waters receded. That'd sure get a few people's attention
and gain more followers, I'd think. Instead, he choses to levitate
single people inside churches while they've got their eyes closed.
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Flying Christians |
15 Apr 2007 08:27:46 PM |
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On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 12:38:18 -0400, MarkA <manthony@stopspam.net> wrote
in alt.atheism
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 11:47:41 +0000, Elroy Willis wrote:
I watched a show on PBS the other night about levitation, and it mentioned
that dozens of Christians in the past claimed to be able to float into the
air and fly like birds. Wow.
Birds fly by being light, and having wings with a large enough surface
area that they can push against the air to lift themselves up. People
don't have wings, nor are they light relative to the surrounding air.
Therefore, the only way a human can levitate would be if he/she were no
longer subject to the force of gravity.
That seems simple enough on the surface, but consider that the Earth is
rotating, and following an elliptical path around the Sun. If you became
'immune' to gravity, you would immediately start to float away from the
surface of the Earth. If you were outside, you would float off into space
and die in very short order.
The other way to levitate would be if some force were exactly countering
the force of gravity, in which case you could 'hover' as long as the force
were applied. It seems to me unlikely that God would elect to float
people around, when He can't even be bothered to save 230,000 people from
the Indonesian tsunami.
'He' scheduled them to die at that point in time and in that manner
because he loves them so.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "MarkA" |
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| Title: Re: Flying Christians |
15 Apr 2007 10:03:45 PM |
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On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 18:27:46 -0700, stoney wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 12:38:18 -0400, MarkA <manthony@stopspam.net> wrote in
alt.atheism
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 11:47:41 +0000, Elroy Willis wrote:
I watched a show on PBS the other night about levitation, and it
mentioned that dozens of Christians in the past claimed to be able to
float into the air and fly like birds. Wow.
Birds fly by being light, and having wings with a large enough surface
area that they can push against the air to lift themselves up. People
don't have wings, nor are they light relative to the surrounding air.
Therefore, the only way a human can levitate would be if he/she were no
longer subject to the force of gravity.
That seems simple enough on the surface, but consider that the Earth is
rotating, and following an elliptical path around the Sun. If you became
'immune' to gravity, you would immediately start to float away from the
surface of the Earth. If you were outside, you would float off into
space and die in very short order.
The other way to levitate would be if some force were exactly countering
the force of gravity, in which case you could 'hover' as long as the
force were applied. It seems to me unlikely that God would elect to
float people around, when He can't even be bothered to save 230,000
people from the Indonesian tsunami.
'He' scheduled them to die at that point in time and in that manner
because he loves them so.
He can't have people thinking that He's gone soft.
--
MarkA
(this space accidentally filled in)
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Flying Christians |
19 Apr 2007 11:18:54 AM |
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On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 23:03:45 -0400, MarkA <toor@nowhere.com> wrote in
alt.atheism
On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 18:27:46 -0700, stoney wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 12:38:18 -0400, MarkA <manthony@stopspam.net> wrote in
alt.atheism
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 11:47:41 +0000, Elroy Willis wrote:
I watched a show on PBS the other night about levitation, and it
mentioned that dozens of Christians in the past claimed to be able to
float into the air and fly like birds. Wow.
Birds fly by being light, and having wings with a large enough surface
area that they can push against the air to lift themselves up. People
don't have wings, nor are they light relative to the surrounding air.
Therefore, the only way a human can levitate would be if he/she were no
longer subject to the force of gravity.
That seems simple enough on the surface, but consider that the Earth is
rotating, and following an elliptical path around the Sun. If you became
'immune' to gravity, you would immediately start to float away from the
surface of the Earth. If you were outside, you would float off into
space and die in very short order.
The other way to levitate would be if some force were exactly countering
the force of gravity, in which case you could 'hover' as long as the
force were applied. It seems to me unlikely that God would elect to
float people around, when He can't even be bothered to save 230,000
people from the Indonesian tsunami.
'He' scheduled them to die at that point in time and in that manner
because he loves them so.
He can't have people thinking that He's gone soft.
Point.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Flying Christians |
16 Apr 2007 04:12:05 AM |
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On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 23:03:45 -0400, MarkA <toor@nowhere.com> wrote:
- Refer: <pan.2007.04.16.03.03.43.826366@nowhere.com>
On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 18:27:46 -0700, stoney wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 12:38:18 -0400, MarkA <manthony@stopspam.net> wrote in
alt.atheism
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 11:47:41 +0000, Elroy Willis wrote:
I watched a show on PBS the other night about levitation, and it
mentioned that dozens of Christians in the past claimed to be able to
float into the air and fly like birds. Wow.
Birds fly by being light, and having wings with a large enough surface
area that they can push against the air to lift themselves up. People
don't have wings, nor are they light relative to the surrounding air.
Therefore, the only way a human can levitate would be if he/she were no
longer subject to the force of gravity.
That seems simple enough on the surface, but consider that the Earth is
rotating, and following an elliptical path around the Sun. If you became
'immune' to gravity, you would immediately start to float away from the
surface of the Earth. If you were outside, you would float off into
space and die in very short order.
The other way to levitate would be if some force were exactly countering
the force of gravity, in which case you could 'hover' as long as the
force were applied. It seems to me unlikely that God would elect to
float people around, when He can't even be bothered to save 230,000
people from the Indonesian tsunami.
'He' scheduled them to die at that point in time and in that manner
because he loves them so.
He can't have people thinking that He's gone soft.
In the head?
--
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Flying Christians |
30 Mar 2007 07:15:08 AM |
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On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 11:47:41 GMT, Elroy Willis
<elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
- Refer: <ml8n03dcivn6ubl2tc785hjoqfccs0u83e@4ax.com>
I watched a show on PBS the other night about levitation, and it
mentioned that dozens of Christians in the past claimed to be able to
float into the air and fly like birds. Wow.
:
Gimme a Christian & a cannon, and I'll make 'em fly.
You are free to videotape it too.
--
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Flying Christians |
30 Mar 2007 07:47:04 AM |
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Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
I watched a show on PBS the other night about levitation, and it
mentioned that dozens of Christians in the past claimed to be able to
float into the air and fly like birds. Wow.
Gimme a Christian & a cannon, and I'll make 'em fly.
You are free to videotape it too.
I'm sure the Christian would leave out the gunpowder part when telling
the story of how they flew through the air.
"I was propelled by the power of the LORD out of the cannon towards
heaven, by the power of GOD almighty!"
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Flying Christians |
30 Mar 2007 08:56:45 PM |
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On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 12:47:04 GMT, Elroy Willis
<elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
- Refer: <rk0q035cjguomo7bn9hftgu9lj2uv65nor@4ax.com>
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
I watched a show on PBS the other night about levitation, and it
mentioned that dozens of Christians in the past claimed to be able to
float into the air and fly like birds. Wow.
Gimme a Christian & a cannon, and I'll make 'em fly.
You are free to videotape it too.
I'm sure the Christian would leave out the gunpowder part when telling
the story of how they flew through the air.
"I was propelled by the power of the LORD out of the cannon towards
heaven, by the power of GOD almighty!"
I'll call the propellant "Acme - The Lord Powder", if it will help
their short terms delusional happiness.
Ain't I generous?
--
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| User: "Gospel Bretts" |
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| Title: Re: Flying Christians |
29 Mar 2007 10:16:16 PM |
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On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 11:47:41 GMT, Elroy Willis
<elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
I watched a show on PBS the other night about levitation, and it
mentioned that dozens of Christians in the past claimed to be able to
float into the air and fly like birds. Wow.
In my many years around here, I've never heard of that before, so I
Googled around and found the following:
http://www.answers.com/topic/levitate
"The scene of the elevation of saints and ecstatics was most often the
altar in the church, and the state which seemed to condition it was
the deep trance-like state known as "rapture." St. Joseph of Copertino
experienced 15 levitations in front of images of the Holy Virgin; his
raptures in saying Mass were of frequent occurrence, and "his
ecstasies and ascensions were witnessed not only by the people and the
members of his order, but Pope Urban VIII saw him one day in this
state and was intensely astonished. Joseph, bethinking himself that he
was in the presence of the Vicar of Christ, fell into an ecstasy and
was raised above the ground."
Fr. K. A. Schmöger recounted the statement of stigmatist Anne
Catherine Emmerich (1774-1824): "When I was doing my work as
vestry-nun, I was often lifted up suddenly into the air, and I climbed
up and stood on the higher parts of the church, such as windows,
sculptured ornaments, jutting stones; I would clean and arrange
everything in places where it was humanly impossible. I felt myself
lifted and supported in the air, and I was not afraid in the least,
for I had been accustomed from a child to being assisted by my
guardian angel."
========
Do any Christians actually believe those stories, or are they an
embarrassment or known lies?
Why can't we get some modern video footage of such things
happening today? If they happened once, why not now?
My bet is those people never flew, they were just tranced out and
high as kites, so to speak, on their god. If video footage were
taken, they'd probably have their eyes closed and praying on the
ground, only imagining that they were flying. When they related the
feeling to other people, they left out the part about them being on
the ground, and only related the feeling of floating or flying. As
time went by, people added witnesses to the stories, and that's what
we have today.
There's also the possibility that some of them used trickery, like
modern magicians use, to simulate levitation.
Thanks for the information, Elroy.
___________________
Gospel Bretts
a.a. atheist #2262
Fundy Xian Atheist
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