| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"John M Price PhD" |
| Date: |
24 Jul 2004 08:22:41 PM |
| Object: |
Foot Miracle |
I was recenlty told a tale that a person who'd lost a foot had it restored
at Lourdes. Anyone have info on this?
TIA.
(c) 2004. Copyright, John M. Price, PhD. All Rights Reserved.
Contents may not be republished in any form or medium without prior
written consent of the author with the express and only exception of
followup postings limited to and within usenet.
--
John M. Price, PhD
Life: Chemistry, but with feeling! | PGP Key on request or FTP!
Email responses to my Usenet articles will be posted at my discretion.
Comoderator: sci.psychology.psychotherapy.moderated Atheist# 683
To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say that the
human soul, angels, God, are immaterial, is to say they are nothings, or
that there is no God, no angels, no soul. I cannot reason otherwise.
- Thomas Jefferson to John Adams, 15 August 1820.
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| User: "August Pamplona" |
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| Title: Re: Foot Miracle |
25 Jul 2004 04:23:06 PM |
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In news:41030b61$0$82005$d368eab@news.calweb.com,
John M Price PhD <jmprice@calweb.com> typed:
I was recenlty told a tale that a person who'd lost a foot had it
restored at Lourdes. Anyone have info on this?
I have no idea. Unless my memory is playing tricks on me, in the
Cathedral of Zaragoza, Spain, there's a plaque claiming that someone got
a leg to grow back after praying to "la Virgén del Pilar" or some such
thing. I guess if someone truly can grow a whole leg back, restoring a
foot should be child's play (though, I must confess some doubts about
the regrowing of a whole leg thing).
TIA.
(c) 2004. Copyright, John M. Price, PhD. All Rights Reserved.
August Pamplona
--
The waterfall in Java is not wet.
- omegazero2003 on m.f.w.
a.a. # 1811 apatriot #20 Eater of smut
The address in this message's 'From' field, in accordance with
individual.net's TOS, is real. However, almost all messages
reaching this address are deleted without human intervention.
In other words, if you e-mail me there, I will not receive your message.
To make sure that e-mail messages actually reach me,
make sure that my e-mail address is not hot.
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| User: "Phÿltêr" |
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| Title: Re: Foot Miracle |
25 Jul 2004 03:17:31 AM |
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John M Price PhD <jmprice@calweb.com> astounded us with:
news:41030b61$0$82005$d368eab@news.calweb.com:
I was recenlty told a tale that a person who'd lost a foot had it restored
at Lourdes. Anyone have info on this?
TIA.
Mammals don't have that capability, however, echinodermata (starfish) and
crustaceans do, another damn flaw in the "intelligent design" plan...
--
Phÿltêr
AA#1938
Denizen of Darkness #44 & AFJC Antipodean Attaché
http://forums.clickhalah.com/index.php
Remove "s" to respond
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| User: "John M Price PhD" |
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| Title: Re: Foot Miracle |
25 Jul 2004 09:55:31 AM |
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In alt.atheism article <Xns9531A5E78C3B2Smeagolsbane@192.189.54.177> "Ph?lt?r" <Ph?lt?r@hsotmail.com> wrote:
: John M Price PhD <> astounded us with:
: news:41030b61$0$82005$d368eab@news.calweb.com:
: > I was recenlty told a tale that a person who'd lost a foot had it restored
: > at Lourdes. Anyone have info on this?
: >
: > TIA.
: Mammals don't have that capability, however, echinodermata (starfish) and
: crustaceans do, another damn flaw in the "intelligent design" plan...
I know that. That would be why it would have been a miracle!
(c) 2004. Copyright, John M. Price, PhD. All Rights Reserved.
Contents may not be republished in any form or medium without prior
written consent of the author with the express and only exception of
followup postings limited to and within usenet.
--
John M. Price, PhD
Life: Chemistry, but with feeling! | PGP Key on request or FTP!
Email responses to my Usenet articles will be posted at my discretion.
Comoderator: sci.psychology.psychotherapy.moderated Atheist# 683
Too much freedom in the mind is dangerous; it only leads to confusion and
makes people mean.
- Laura Schlessinger, PhD (Exercise Physiology)
10May1999
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| User: "jwk" |
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| Title: Re: Foot Miracle |
26 Jul 2004 04:58:35 PM |
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John M Price PhD <jmprice@calweb.com> wrote in message news:<41030b61$0$82005$d368eab@news.calweb.com>...
I was recenlty told a tale that a person who'd lost a foot had it restored
at Lourdes. Anyone have info on this?
TIA.
Yeah. It was me. See? I have the regrown foot right here. That's
proof, that is. Any other questions?
jwk
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Foot Miracle |
25 Jul 2004 02:32:52 AM |
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John M Price PhD wrote:
I was recenlty told a tale that a person who'd lost a foot had it
restored at Lourdes. Anyone have info on this?
Oops.
Grandma writ that little Jamie had grown a foot so Earl's knitting three sox
for him now.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Foot Miracle |
25 Jul 2004 11:48:07 AM |
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On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 07:32:52 +0000, Mike Painter wrote:
John M Price PhD wrote:
I was recenlty told a tale that a person who'd lost a foot had it
restored at Lourdes. Anyone have info on this?
Oops.
Grandma writ that little Jamie had grown a foot so Earl's knitting three sox
for him now.
Yes, that would be the usual response from the "Puke of Hurl."
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| User: "Marvin" |
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| Title: Re: Foot Miracle |
25 Jul 2004 01:28:32 PM |
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"stoney" <stoney@localhost.localdomain> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.07.25.16.48.07.333796@localhost.localdomain...
On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 07:32:52 +0000, Mike Painter wrote:
John M Price PhD wrote:
I was recenlty told a tale that a person who'd lost a
foot had it
restored at Lourdes. Anyone have info on this?
Oops.
Grandma writ that little Jamie had grown a foot so Earl's
knitting three sox
for him now.
That would be "Jamie'd grew" where I'm from. A bit farther
down river they'd say "growed."
Yes, that would be the usual response from the "Puke of
Hurl."
No doubt there's such a huge cover-up that this restored foot
will never be reported in the "Librul dominated media." We
must all be thankful that the good Lord sent TIA to tell us
about it and provide us with more unassailable evidence of His
existence to add to all the rest. Doesn't it just prove His
love for us all that, of all the problems in the world, he
chose to restore one person's foot? That's obviously far a
more loving thing to do than to provide a cure for, say,
cancer or AIDS. Praise the Lord!
--
Marvin
To reply, burn off fog.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Foot Miracle |
26 Jul 2004 07:13:50 PM |
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On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 13:28:32 -0500, Marvin wrote:
"stoney" <stoney@localhost.localdomain> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.07.25.16.48.07.333796@localhost.localdomain...
On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 07:32:52 +0000, Mike Painter wrote:
John M Price PhD wrote:
I was recenlty told a tale that a person who'd lost a
foot had it
restored at Lourdes. Anyone have info on this?
Oops.
Grandma writ that little Jamie had grown a foot so Earl's
knitting three sox
for him now.
That would be "Jamie'd grew" where I'm from. A bit farther
down river they'd say "growed."
Yes, that would be the usual response from the "Puke of
Hurl."
No doubt there's such a huge cover-up that this restored foot
will never be reported in the "Librul dominated media." We
must all be thankful that the good Lord sent TIA to tell us
about it and provide us with more unassailable evidence of His
existence to add to all the rest. Doesn't it just prove His
love for us all that, of all the problems in the world, he
chose to restore one person's foot? That's obviously far a
more loving thing to do than to provide a cure for, say,
cancer or AIDS. Praise the Lord!
And pass the Bible the old lady that had just excreted snapped.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Foot Miracle |
25 Jul 2004 02:31:38 AM |
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John M Price PhD wrote:
I was recenlty told a tale that a person who'd lost a foot had it
restored at Lourdes. Anyone have info on this?
TIA.
I suspect it might have been mentioned in passing byt the media.
If not our resident pseudo-Catholic Earl would be making loud noises about
it (without verifying it) had it been mentioned in his church.
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| User: "Levy Oates" |
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| Title: Re: Foot Miracle |
25 Jul 2004 10:35:12 AM |
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On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 07:31:38 GMT, "Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
...a person who'd lost a foot...
Now, let me see, where did I see it last?
---------
Archdeacom Levy Oates
On behalf of the Prophet Eric Peabody (pbuh)
Basingstoke, England
http://www.angelfire.com/alt/bumblism/
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| User: "the enemies of god" |
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| Title: Re: Foot Miracle |
25 Jul 2004 03:54:52 AM |
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John M Price PhD wrote:
I was recenlty told a tale that a person who'd lost a foot had it restored
at Lourdes. Anyone have info on this?
dr scholl's?
and where did they have it stolen from, originally?
--
the.
cause if it's feet you're lookin for, or to have your feet stole, well,
you've come to the right place ...
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| User: "Divin Marquis" |
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| Title: Re: Foot Miracle |
26 Jul 2004 08:51:47 AM |
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Le Sun, 25 Jul 2004 01:22:41 +0000, John M Price PhD a écrit :
I was recenlty told a tale that a person who'd lost a foot had it restored
at Lourdes. Anyone have info on this?
A psychotic who used to believe to have lost a foot, now hallucinates pink
elephants after a trip to Lourdes.
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| User: "MarkA" |
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| Title: Re: Foot Miracle |
26 Jul 2004 06:51:17 AM |
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On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 01:22:41 +0000, John M Price PhD wrote:
I was recenlty told a tale that a person who'd lost a foot had it restored
at Lourdes. Anyone have info on this?
TIA.
(c) 2004. Copyright, John M. Price, PhD. All Rights Reserved.
Contents may not be republished in any form or medium without prior
written consent of the author with the express and only exception of
followup postings limited to and within usenet.
That *would* be a "miracle." If such a thing were to happen, and it could
be verified, it would be front page news.
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
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| User: "Marvin" |
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| Title: Re: Foot Miracle |
26 Jul 2004 09:04:54 AM |
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"MarkA" <manthony@stopspam.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.07.26.11.50.01.258443@stopspam.net...
On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 01:22:41 +0000, John M Price PhD wrote:
I was recenlty told a tale that a person who'd lost a foot
had it restored
at Lourdes. Anyone have info on this?
TIA.
(c) 2004. Copyright, John M. Price, PhD. All Rights
Reserved.
Contents may not be republished in any form or medium
without prior
written consent of the author with the express and only
exception of
followup postings limited to and within usenet.
That *would* be a "miracle." If such a thing were to
happen, and it could
be verified, it would be front page news.
---
MarkA
If such a "miracle" ever does occur in anything other than the
imagination of the gullible, I hope genuine scientists would
carefully examine the circumstances. It could have resulted
from a genetic mutation, some previously unknown dietary or
environmental benefit, or a combination of these or other
factors that my scientifically challenged mind hasn't yet
heard of. For medical science to identify the cause and work
toward duplicating the result would be a far greater miracle
than the regrowth of one individual's foot.
I have a feeling that this miracle, if indeed there was such a
report, is a great deal like most I've heard of or seen:
obvious to believers, but totally unverifiable. For example,
the foot is said to have been severed in an accident earlier
that day and was never reported to authorities nor examined by
medical personnel. If there is any verification at all, it
comes from close associates who hope to profit from telling
the story or from people associated with the so called healing
agency, whether it's related to an established religion,
crystals or pyramids, the spirit world, a magic fountain . . .
on and on.
--
Marvin
To reply, burn off fog.
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| User: "Levy Oates" |
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| Title: Re: Foot Miracle |
26 Jul 2004 02:10:24 PM |
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On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 09:04:54 -0500, "Marvin" <marvin2@fogstarband.net> wrote:
If such a "miracle" ever does occur in anything other than the
imagination of the gullible, I hope genuine scientists would
carefully examine the circumstances. It could have resulted
from a genetic mutation, some previously unknown dietary or
environmental benefit, or a combination of these or other
factors that my scientifically challenged mind hasn't yet
heard of. For medical science to identify the cause and work
toward duplicating the result would be a far greater miracle
than the regrowth of one individual's foot.
You might find this article from New Scientist interesting:
http://archive.newscientist.com/secure/article/article.jsp?rp=1&id=mg16722514.400
Just in case you can't access the archive:
------------------------------------
Need a hand?
New Scientist vol 167 issue 2251 - 12 August 2000, page 34
Suppose our bodies could be induced to grow replacement limbs, just as
amphibians do. It's not as outrageous as it sounds, says Joanna Marchant
THE water was cool and still, perfect for a dip. The swimmer had struck out
confidently from the shore, when suddenly a dark shape appeared below him. There
was a commotion in the water, and then a stabbing pain in his left leg as a set
of sharp teeth sank into his flesh. Thrashing his body from side to side in
panic, he wrenched himself free, then struggled the short distance to shore. But
his leg was still in the mouth of the cruel predator.
Unfazed, the swimmer took things easy for a few weeks, and sure enough his
patience was rewarded—he grew a brand new leg. A fairy story? Far from it. Our
swimmer is a newt, and regeneration comes naturally. But perhaps the same story
could soon come true for humans, too.
There are good evolutionary reasons we mammals traded in the ability to
regenerate damaged tissues—an advanced immune system and rapid wound healing
among them. But new work is showing that a newt-like capacity for rebuilding
whole limbs might still be locked within our cells. Some researchers even
believe they're close to working out how to set the chain of events in motion to
allow the growth of a whole new arm or leg.
The secret of the newt's ability to regenerate body parts lies in ordering
specialised cells at the wound site to revert to an embryonic state, and using
these to build a new limb from scratch. Once a cell has become a bone cell or a
muscle cell, it usually can't convert into other types of tissue, and often
can't divide. But by reversing their development, the newt turns its cells into
blank slates again, forming a ball of precursor cells called a blastema, which
is able to grow, multiply and re-specialise to make any of the tissues needed.
In mammals, this regression simply doesn't happen. Instead, the wound heals (see
Diagram). It's a process that has evolved to close the wound as fast as possible
to minimise the chances of infection, says Mark Ferguson, head of the Wound
Healing Research Group at the University of Manchester. But speed often means
leaving a scar.
How a flesh wound heals
Dan Neufeld from the University of South Dakota School of Medicine believes
wound healing and regeneration are competing processes, with the balance in
humans tipped towards healing. "They race against each other," he says. "I
believe that in humans, regeneration is an inherent ability. But we have such
fast and effective wound healing, it always gets in first."
Healing is the job of the immune system, and animals that regenerate have
relatively primitive immune systems. Even mammalian embryos, before their immune
systems are fully developed, can heal without scarring. Neufeld and others hope
that since we can now dress wounds and control infection, we could slow down
healing to give regeneration a chance.
It looks as though this might be possible in mice, as Ellen Heber-Katz, an
immunologist at the Wistar Institute in Philadelphia, discovered. She was
working with a strain of immune-deficient mice as a model for the human disease
lupus and got a student to punch tiny holes in the ears of the mice—a
well-established technique for tagging the animals. But three weeks later, the
holes were gone.
The holes hadn't just healed. As well as forming new skin the mice made new hair
follicles and cartilage. And the immune-deficient mice could also regrow a lost
tail tip, making new bone, cartilage, skin and hair. Heber-Katz saw that the
mice were forming blastemas, just as newts do. "This is something that is
essentially never seen in mammals," she says. "It looks like limb regeneration."
Hidden talents
She recently teamed up with Elizabeth Blankenhorn, a geneticist from the Medical
College of Pennsylvania, to find out which genes are responsible for immune
suppression and blastema formation in the mice. They found that many of the
genes that are active during limb regeneration in newts are also found in these
mice, so it really does look as though mammals could have hidden regenerative
talents. "Almost everything seen in amphibians, we see here," says Heber-Katz.
But immune suppression is clearly not the whole story. The regenerative capacity
of the mice is by no means perfect. "The bone seems to grow faster than the rest
of the tissue," says Heber-Katz. And repairing tail tips and pierced ears is a
far cry from growing whole new limbs.
Ferguson and his Manchester colleagues are now studying the differences between
adult and embryonic immune systems and healing mechanisms in the hope of
learning what makes an immature immune system allow perfect healing rather than
scarring. One of the main differences they have found so far is in the levels of
a family of chemicals that promote growth. Embryos have lower levels of two
growth factors called TGFb1 and TGFb2, but more TGFb3.
The researchers altered the balance of these growth factors in adult mice, rats
and pigs to match the embryonic levels, then cut out little pieces of skin. They
found that when the animals healed the tissue didn't scar. "The wounds heal
without a mark," says Ferguson. The group is now carrying out preliminary
clinical trials in humans, and should have the results next year. But even
though the wounds healed neatly, they did so only with new skin cells—no new
sweat glands or hair follicles were formed. The new tissue was generated through
the division of skin cells around the wound. There was no regression and
redifferentiation, so no other tissue types were made.
Now Jeremy Brockes and Elly Tanaka from University College London are trying to
work out what it is about wounding that makes mature newt cells, but not
mammalian ones, return to their embryonic state. They are studying newt muscle
cells, which fuse into aggregates called myotubes. When the cells begin to
regress, the first step is to break up again into their individual units. And
the signal to do this seems to be exposure to blood serum. Brockes and Tanaka
think the key might be thrombin, an enzyme involved in clotting (New Scientist,
31 July 1999, p 10).
The precise details of what thrombin does aren't clear, but the endpoint seems
to be the modification of a protein called retinoblastoma, or Rb. In mammals, Rb
is an important safeguard against cells dividing recklessly, and so is important
in protecting against cancer. But when Rb is modified by a complicated cascade
of reactions triggered by thrombin, it releases its grip, allowing the cells to
regenerate.
The researchers were surprised to find that the thrombin signal to start
regenerating isn't species-specific. Blood serum from mammals can trigger newt
myotubes into regressing, although mammalian cells don't respond to the signal.
But when Brockes and Tanaka made hybrid cells with a mammalian nucleus inside a
newt cell, hybrid myotubes made of such cells were triggered by serum to
regress, and their mammalian DNA was able to replicate. Rather than being
completely incapable of regeneration, it looks as though somewhere in mammalian
cells there is an obstacle blocking the pathway.
Peter Schultz from the Scripps Research Institute in San Diego took a brute
force approach to overcoming this obstacle. One by one, he added thousands of
different chemical compounds to mouse myotubes. He found one that induced
myotubes to break into their individual units. And when he removed the
substance, which he called myoseverin, the cells started to replicate. "It's a
remarkable finding," says Brockes. Myoseverin causes the fragmentation by
dismantling tube-like structures within the cells. But that's not all it does.
Schultz found that myoseverin also turns on a wide range of genes, many of which
are known to be involved in healing and regeneration. Starting the cells off on
the path towards an embryonic state seems to trigger genetic changes that could
be involved in tissue repair.
But simply knowing that it's time to make a new part isn't enough. You also have
to know what to make. Newts always know whether to make a leg or an arm, and how
much to grow—a single digit or a whole limb.
Hans-Georg Simon, a paediatrician at the Northwestern University Medical School
in Chicago, has identified a group of genes called T box genes, some of which
are active only in the forelimb, and some only in the hindlimb. Simon has found
that in mammals and other animals that cannot regenerate, these genes are
working in the limbs during development, but are then shut off completely.
In newts and other regenerating animals, on the other hand, the genes are active
at a low level throughout adult life. A kind of memory, or map, pervades the
newt's body and gives each part its identity. "If there is amputation, there is
always a background that tells the stump, `you have to make an arm'," says
Simon. "In us, these genes are completely shut off."
Simon believes this information is critical. In humans, mutations in a T box
gene that is switched on in arms during development cause a disease called
Holt-Oram syndrome. The symptoms vary, but some patients have no arms. It seems
that even if the signal to grow a new limb is there, says Simon, if there is no
information about what to make then you don't make a limb at all. If we want to
regenerate limbs in mammals, we need to find a way to switch these markers back
on.
It may sound as though far too many signals have yet to be found to consider
human limb regeneration even a remote possibility. But Doros Platika, head of
the Boston-based company Ontogeny, is optimistic that one day we will be able to
trigger regeneration in mammals, whether we understand all the details or not.
He believes that our cells retain an inherent capacity for building new parts,
just as they did during development. The instructions for building each limb are
written in the DNA of every one of our cells—that's how we knew how to make them
in the first place. If we can just work out how to turn the ability on, Platika
believes the rest of the process will take care of itself.
Ontogeny has teamed up with another company called Stryker Biotech to develop
one of the first genetically engineered regenerative drugs, which they hope will
be approved for sale in Europe, the US and Australia by the end of the year. It
is a growth factor called OP1, and it stimulates new bone growth. OP1 is used to
treat non-union fractures, where a patient has broken a bone and there's a gap
between the two pieces, so they don't fuse and heal properly. Often this means a
limb has to be amputated, but OP1 stimulates bone to grow across the gap and
bridge the two pieces. It triggers a cascade of events which ensure that the
bone is fed by blood vessels, grows in the correct shape, fuses with the old
bone, and stops when the process is complete.
"Even if we keep on giving the drug, the response is controlled, and it stops at
the right time," says Platika. All doctors need to do is give the signal that
says to the bone cells "grow"—the body knows how much bone to make and where.
Platika believes that if we can go back one step earlier in the process, and
find the growth signals for all the necessary cell types, then growing a new leg
really will involve nothing more than a few injections.
But even if we could make limb development happen all over again, there are a
couple of catches. One worry is that overriding normal safeguards and
encouraging our cells to proliferate could trigger cancer. Animals that can
regenerate seem to be particularly immune to cancer. When the control systems
for cell division fail, the animals grow new body parts rather than tumours. But
it's hard to tell what would happen in mammalian cells.
Another catch is that when we developed our limbs first time round as embryos,
the chemicals that dictate the shape of the new limb could easily diffuse from
one side of the tiny body to the other. In adults, the distances involved are
considerably larger. We could solve the problem by forming a perfect limb on a
very small scale, then grow it up. This is exactly what newts do. But how long
would a whole leg take to grow to full size?
Newts can rustle up a limb in a couple of months, only we're a lot bigger than
newts. Brockes worries that even if we could grow new limbs, the technique would
take far too long. It took around 18 years for our legs to get to their current
size, and regenerating a new leg won't be very helpful if we have to wait that
long.
Nevertheless, Neufeld is optimistic. He points out that it doesn't take a newt
much longer to regenerate a whole limb than it does to regenerate a hand. "Once
you have a certain number of cells, it just takes one or two more cell cycles to
make up the extra. My guess is that the scale of time in humans would be roughly
comparable to that of newts." Platika agrees: "This is pure speculation, but I
see no reason why we couldn't grow a leg in weeks or months."
So how long will it be before doctors can perform this amazing feat? Platika
reckons five years. "It's an aggressive estimate," he admits. "But if you'd told
people five years ago that we'd be able to clone sheep and cows, they wouldn't
have believed that either."
A helping hand from bodybuilding cells
People can sometimes regenerate the tips of fingers and toes, so long as the
wound runs through the nail bed, which contains a supply a stem cells. Maybe if
we can tap into natural supplies of these precursor cells, we could avoid the
need to send mature cells back into their embryonic state before regeneration
can happen.
Dan Neufeld and Khalid Mohammad from the University of South Dakota School of
Medicine have been studying the process in rats. They transplanted the nail and
its bed from an amputated toe tip to an amputation site higher up the limb.
Normally a stump without a nail bed would just heal at that position, but
instead the nail stimulated the regeneration of a normal-looking toe. "Not only
was something induced," says Neufeld, "it was re-establishing a functional
anatomy." But it didn't manage to regenerate a whole leg. "Maybe the toe ran out
of tissue," Neufeld suggests.
He's not certain, however, whether this proves that stem cells are the key to
regeneration. The role of the nail bed could be to provide stem cells or growth
factors that trigger regeneration. Alternatively, it could simply be a matter of
geometry. "The critical factor could be that the nail holds the wound open," he
says, suppressing the healing process and giving regeneration a chance.
---------
Archdeacom Levy Oates
On behalf of the Prophet Eric Peabody (pbuh)
Basingstoke, England
http://www.angelfire.com/alt/bumblism/
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| User: "MarkA" |
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| Title: Re: Foot Miracle |
27 Jul 2004 06:48:57 AM |
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On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 20:10:24 +0100, Levy Oates wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 09:04:54 -0500, "Marvin" <marvin2@fogstarband.net>
wrote:
If such a "miracle" ever does occur in anything other than the
imagination of the gullible, I hope genuine scientists would carefully
examine the circumstances. It could have resulted from a genetic
mutation, some previously unknown dietary or environmental benefit, or a
combination of these or other factors that my scientifically challenged
mind hasn't yet heard of. For medical science to identify the cause and
work toward duplicating the result would be a far greater miracle than
the regrowth of one individual's foot.
You might find this article from New Scientist interesting:
http://archive.newscientist.com/secure/article/article.jsp?rp=1&id=mg16722514.400
Just in case you can't access the archive:
<snip>
Nice article. Thank you. If scientist do figure out how to regrow
severed limbs, it will be another triumph of science, and another "dropped
ball" for divine miracles.
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Foot Miracle |
25 Jul 2004 11:48:38 AM |
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On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 01:22:41 +0000, John M Price PhD wrote:
I was recenlty told a tale that a person who'd lost a foot had it restored
at Lourdes. Anyone have info on this?
TIA.
Pure, unadultrated *****.
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| User: "John M Price PhD" |
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| Title: Re: Foot Miracle |
25 Jul 2004 03:24:31 PM |
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In alt.atheism article <pan.2004.07.25.16.48.38.180186@localhost.localdomain> stoney <stoney@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
: On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 01:22:41 +0000, John M Price PhD wrote:
: > I was recenlty told a tale that a person who'd lost a foot had it restored
: > at Lourdes. Anyone have info on this?
: >
: > TIA.
: >
: >
: Pure, unadultrated *****.
That was my take. It is also my take on teh 'Eucharist Miracles'. Still,
I thought I'd ask if anyone heard this tale and could provide more info.
There are lots of foot problems considered miracles at Lourdes, but none
say restoration of lost limb/paw/foot etc.
(c) 2004. Copyright, John M. Price, PhD. All Rights Reserved.
Contents may not be republished in any form or medium without prior
written consent of the author with the express and only exception of
followup postings limited to and within usenet.
--
John M. Price, PhD
Life: Chemistry, but with feeling! | PGP Key on request or FTP!
Email responses to my Usenet articles will be posted at my discretion.
Comoderator: sci.psychology.psychotherapy.moderated Atheist# 683
Little by little, we subtract
Faith and fantasy from fact,
The illusory from the true,
And starve upon the residue.
-Samuel Hoffenstein
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Foot Miracle |
26 Jul 2004 07:12:49 PM |
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On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 20:24:31 +0000, John M Price PhD wrote:
In alt.atheism article <pan.2004.07.25.16.48.38.180186@localhost.localdomain> stoney <stoney@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
: On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 01:22:41 +0000, John M Price PhD wrote:
: > I was recenlty told a tale that a person who'd lost a foot had it restored
: > at Lourdes. Anyone have info on this?
: >
: > TIA.
: >
: >
: Pure, unadultrated *****.
That was my take. It is also my take on teh 'Eucharist Miracles'. Still,
I thought I'd ask if anyone heard this tale and could provide more info.
There are lots of foot problems considered miracles at Lourdes, but none
say restoration of lost limb/paw/foot etc.
One would think knee problems would be legion.....
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