For Conservatives: How many dead American soldiers will change your mind?

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"Psycho Dave"
Date:	25 Sep 2004 03:21:18 PM
Object:	For Conservatives: How many dead American soldiers will change your mind?

I've been asking this question all over the message boards and news
groups, and the results are the same wherever I go. It's absolutely
amazing.
I ask:
"How many dead, young American soldiers and beheaded civilians will it
take before you think the war in Iraq is not worth it?"
Most of the responses just blow off the question, bring up World War
2, accuse me of being a "make love not war hippie peacenik", and so
on. Nobody has answer the question yet. They just see it and go "You
*****!"
I even provided multiple choice answers:
(1) 1,000
(2) 10,000
(3) 50,000 (Vietnam US death toll)
(4) 100,000
(5) AS MANY AS IT TAKES TO GET THE JOB DONE!
(6) None
(7) fill in your own answer
So can any of the conservative Iraq war supporters give a serious
answer to this question. I believe it is a question that all of us
should be asking as citizens... Oh crap! I forgot, I'm an atheist, and
George W. Bush's dad doesn't consider me a citizen! Darn!
But please, try to answer it.
.

User: "Dale"
Title: Re: For Conservatives: How many dead American soldiers will change your mind?	25 Sep 2004 05:04:22 PM

"Psycho Dave" <Irish@fmedr.com> wrote in message
news:ea202634.0409251221.49887dfb@posting.google.com...

I've been asking this question all over the message boards and news
groups, and the results are the same wherever I go. It's absolutely
amazing.

I ask:
"How many dead, young American soldiers and beheaded civilians will it
take before you think the war in Iraq is not worth it?"

Most of the responses just blow off the question, bring up World War
2, accuse me of being a "make love not war hippie peacenik", and so
on. Nobody has answer the question yet. They just see it and go "You
*****!"

I even provided multiple choice answers:

(1) 1,000
(2) 10,000
(3) 50,000 (Vietnam US death toll)
(4) 100,000
(5) AS MANY AS IT TAKES TO GET THE JOB DONE!
(6) None
(7) fill in your own answer

So can any of the conservative Iraq war supporters give a serious
answer to this question. I believe it is a question that all of us
should be asking as citizens... Oh crap! I forgot, I'm an atheist, and
George W. Bush's dad doesn't consider me a citizen! Darn!

But please, try to answer it.

Though I'm not a Conservative, and apparently not a Liberal either, I would
think that most people would answer "however many it takes". I'm surprised
that they have difficulty with this.
Personally, I think the war was a bad idea. We should have focused on
stabilizing Afghanistan and capturing terrorists, or maybe say, capturing
Osama bin Laden, instead of doubling the amount of Middle Eastern land area
that's going to be in a state of anarchy where terrorists can thrive and
organize with the assistance of Iran and Saudi Arabia.
Still, having started it, there's nothing to do but finish it. But the
possibility of dying is part of what being a soldier is about, you know,
King Harry's speech at Agincourt: "And gentlemen in England now a-bed shall
think themselves accursed they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap
whiles any speaks that fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day" and all
that. There are all kinds of people who wouldn't feel fulfilled without
having that kind of extreme commitment in their life. I mean, look at
extreme sports, those people are risking injury and oftentimes death just
for the thrill of it. War gives people a chance to do that kind of thing for
a greater glory.
Besides, you have to test your weapons and give your army experience or you
lose your edge. If they're going to be like that, they ought to give them
more loot, though, like the Romans did. Well, maybe not that much, but more
than they're giving them now.
.

User: "Fester"
Title: Re: For Conservatives: How many dead American soldiers will change your mind?	25 Sep 2004 05:19:25 PM

--
"Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgement; and
he betrays instead of serving you if he sacrifices it to your opinion"
Edmund Burke
"Psycho Dave" <Irish@fmedr.com> wrote in message
news:ea202634.0409251221.49887dfb@posting.google.com...

I've been asking this question all over the message boards and news
groups, and the results are the same wherever I go. It's absolutely
amazing.

I ask:
"How many dead, young American soldiers and beheaded civilians will it
take before you think the war in Iraq is not worth it?"

Most of the responses just blow off the question, bring up World War
2, accuse me of being a "make love not war hippie peacenik", and so
on. Nobody has answer the question yet. They just see it and go "You
*****!"

I even provided multiple choice answers:

(1) 1,000
(2) 10,000
(3) 50,000 (Vietnam US death toll)
(4) 100,000
(5) AS MANY AS IT TAKES TO GET THE JOB DONE!
(6) None
(7) fill in your own answer

So can any of the conservative Iraq war supporters give a serious
answer to this question. I believe it is a question that all of us
should be asking as citizens... Oh crap! I forgot, I'm an atheist, and
George W. Bush's dad doesn't consider me a citizen! Darn!

But please, try to answer it.

I'll take, "You *****."
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: For Conservatives: How many dead American soldiers will change your mind?	25 Sep 2004 03:44:02 PM

(Psycho Dave) wrote in
news:ea202634.0409251221.49887dfb@posting.google.com:

I've been asking this question all over the message boards and news
groups, and the results are the same wherever I go. It's absolutely
amazing.

I ask:
"How many dead, young American soldiers and beheaded civilians will it
take before you think the war in Iraq is not worth it?"

Most of the responses just blow off the question, bring up World War
2, accuse me of being a "make love not war hippie peacenik", and so
on. Nobody has answer the question yet. They just see it and go "You
*****!"

I even provided multiple choice answers:

(1) 1,000
(2) 10,000
(3) 50,000 (Vietnam US death toll)
(4) 100,000
(5) AS MANY AS IT TAKES TO GET THE JOB DONE!
(6) None
(7) fill in your own answer

So can any of the conservative Iraq war supporters give a serious
answer to this question. I believe it is a question that all of us
should be asking as citizens... Oh crap! I forgot, I'm an atheist, and
George W. Bush's dad doesn't consider me a citizen! Darn!

But please, try to answer it.

I'll take number 5, thank you.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.

User: "Vic Sagerquist"
Title: Re: For Conservatives: How many dead American soldiers will change your mind?	25 Sep 2004 08:58:31 PM

Irish@fmedr.com (Psycho Dave) wrote in
news:ea202634.0409251221.49887dfb@posting.google.com:

I've been asking this question all over the message boards and news
groups, and the results are the same wherever I go. It's absolutely
amazing.

I ask:
"How many dead, young American soldiers and beheaded civilians will it
take before you think the war in Iraq is not worth it?"

Most of the responses just blow off the question, bring up World War
2, accuse me of being a "make love not war hippie peacenik", and so
on. Nobody has answer the question yet. They just see it and go "You
*****!"

I even provided multiple choice answers:

(1) 1,000
(2) 10,000
(3) 50,000 (Vietnam US death toll)
(4) 100,000
(5) AS MANY AS IT TAKES TO GET THE JOB DONE!
(6) None
(7) fill in your own answer

So can any of the conservative Iraq war supporters give a serious
answer to this question. I believe it is a question that all of us
should be asking as citizens... Oh crap! I forgot, I'm an atheist, and
George W. Bush's dad doesn't consider me a citizen! Darn!

But please, try to answer it.

I'll take number 5, thank you.

What exactly *is* the job?
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
The whole foundation of Christianity is based on the idea that
intellectualism is the work of the Devil. Remember the apple on the tree?
Okay, it was the Tree of Knowledge. "You eat this apple, you're going to
be as smart as God. We can't have that."
[Frank Zappa]
.

User: "Apostate"
Title: Re: For Conservatives: How many dead American soldiers will change your mind?	25 Sep 2004 10:27:26 PM

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 01:58:31 GMT, Vic Sagerquist <address@withheld.com> wrote:

Irish@fmedr.com (Psycho Dave) wrote in
news:ea202634.0409251221.49887dfb@posting.google.com:

I've been asking this question all over the message boards and news
groups, and the results are the same wherever I go. It's absolutely
amazing.

I ask:
"How many dead, young American soldiers and beheaded civilians will it
take before you think the war in Iraq is not worth it?"

Most of the responses just blow off the question, bring up World War
2, accuse me of being a "make love not war hippie peacenik", and so
on. Nobody has answer the question yet. They just see it and go "You
*****!"

I even provided multiple choice answers:

(1) 1,000
(2) 10,000
(3) 50,000 (Vietnam US death toll)
(4) 100,000
(5) AS MANY AS IT TAKES TO GET THE JOB DONE!
(6) None
(7) fill in your own answer

So can any of the conservative Iraq war supporters give a serious
answer to this question. I believe it is a question that all of us
should be asking as citizens... Oh crap! I forgot, I'm an atheist, and
George W. Bush's dad doesn't consider me a citizen! Darn!

But please, try to answer it.

I'll take number 5, thank you.

What exactly *is* the job?

To educate the world's populace as follows:
"Resistance is futile!
Your life, as you have known it, is OVER!
As from now, you will service US!"
--
/Apostate
atheist #1931 I've found it!
BAAWA Knife AND SMASHer
EAC Supernumerary Deputy Director, Department of Redundancy Department
plonked by Lani_girl, first post; Billions Served!
I doubt, therefore I might be.
For e-mail, hold that tiger!
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: For Conservatives: How many dead American soldiers will change your mind?	26 Sep 2004 09:37:15 AM

Apostate <Apostate.invalid@yeehaw.org> wrote in
news:2mdcl0huqimd5kdm824duphrlped5fednr@4ax.com:

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 01:58:31 GMT, Vic Sagerquist
<address@withheld.com> wrote:

Irish@fmedr.com (Psycho Dave) wrote in
news:ea202634.0409251221.49887dfb@posting.google.com:

I've been asking this question all over the message boards and news
groups, and the results are the same wherever I go. It's absolutely
amazing.

I ask:
"How many dead, young American soldiers and beheaded civilians will
it take before you think the war in Iraq is not worth it?"

Most of the responses just blow off the question, bring up World
War 2, accuse me of being a "make love not war hippie peacenik",
and so on. Nobody has answer the question yet. They just see it and
go "You *****!"

I even provided multiple choice answers:

(1) 1,000
(2) 10,000
(3) 50,000 (Vietnam US death toll)
(4) 100,000
(5) AS MANY AS IT TAKES TO GET THE JOB DONE!
(6) None
(7) fill in your own answer

So can any of the conservative Iraq war supporters give a serious
answer to this question. I believe it is a question that all of us
should be asking as citizens... Oh crap! I forgot, I'm an atheist,
and George W. Bush's dad doesn't consider me a citizen! Darn!

But please, try to answer it.

I'll take number 5, thank you.

What exactly *is* the job?

To educate the world's populace as follows:
"Resistance is futile!
Your life, as you have known it, is OVER!
As from now, you will service US!"

Chomsky isn't dead, he just smells bad.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: For Conservatives: How many dead American soldiers will change your mind?	25 Sep 2004 09:18:54 PM

Vic Sagerquist <address@withheld.com> wrote in
news:Xns956FC13E1E4BCvicman@63.240.76.16:

Irish@fmedr.com (Psycho Dave) wrote in
news:ea202634.0409251221.49887dfb@posting.google.com:

I've been asking this question all over the message boards and news
groups, and the results are the same wherever I go. It's absolutely
amazing.

I ask:
"How many dead, young American soldiers and beheaded civilians will
it take before you think the war in Iraq is not worth it?"

Most of the responses just blow off the question, bring up World War
2, accuse me of being a "make love not war hippie peacenik", and so
on. Nobody has answer the question yet. They just see it and go "You
*****!"

I even provided multiple choice answers:

(1) 1,000
(2) 10,000
(3) 50,000 (Vietnam US death toll)
(4) 100,000
(5) AS MANY AS IT TAKES TO GET THE JOB DONE!
(6) None
(7) fill in your own answer

So can any of the conservative Iraq war supporters give a serious
answer to this question. I believe it is a question that all of us
should be asking as citizens... Oh crap! I forgot, I'm an atheist,
and George W. Bush's dad doesn't consider me a citizen! Darn!

But please, try to answer it.

I'll take number 5, thank you.

What exactly *is* the job?

Helping Iraq establish a democratic government and maintaining their
security against any of their neighbors who object to that sort of
thing.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.

User: "Mike Painter"
Title: Re: For Conservatives: How many dead American soldiers will change your mind?	25 Sep 2004 10:51:27 PM

Fred Stone wrote:

Vic Sagerquist <address@withheld.com> wrote in
news:Xns956FC13E1E4BCvicman@63.240.76.16:

Irish@fmedr.com (Psycho Dave) wrote in
news:ea202634.0409251221.49887dfb@posting.google.com:

I've been asking this question all over the message boards and news
groups, and the results are the same wherever I go. It's absolutely
amazing.

I ask:
"How many dead, young American soldiers and beheaded civilians will
it take before you think the war in Iraq is not worth it?"

Most of the responses just blow off the question, bring up World
War 2, accuse me of being a "make love not war hippie peacenik",
and so on. Nobody has answer the question yet. They just see it
and go "You *****!"

I even provided multiple choice answers:

(1) 1,000
(2) 10,000
(3) 50,000 (Vietnam US death toll)
(4) 100,000
(5) AS MANY AS IT TAKES TO GET THE JOB DONE!
(6) None
(7) fill in your own answer

So can any of the conservative Iraq war supporters give a serious
answer to this question. I believe it is a question that all of us
should be asking as citizens... Oh crap! I forgot, I'm an atheist,
and George W. Bush's dad doesn't consider me a citizen! Darn!

But please, try to answer it.

I'll take number 5, thank you.

What exactly *is* the job?

Helping Iraq establish a democratic government and maintaining their
security against any of their neighbors who object to that sort of
thing.

"US officials have also offered a $25m bounty for information leading to
Zarqawi's capture."
That's a lot of money. My bet is that it will go unclaimed.
The United States Army taught me that when it comes to resistance fighters,
they are the fish and the people are the water.
Without the support of the people the resistance *can not* be a success.
They gave examples of the French resistance which did not stop even though
whole villages were killed by the Nazi. (Sounds familar)
They also had examples of the people not supporting a movement and it
failed.
They stopped teaching this when Vietnam escalated.
I wonder why.
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: For Conservatives: How many dead American soldiers will change your mind?	26 Sep 2004 09:31:03 AM

"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:31r5d.3185$nj.384@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:

Fred Stone wrote:

Vic Sagerquist <address@withheld.com> wrote in
news:Xns956FC13E1E4BCvicman@63.240.76.16:

Irish@fmedr.com (Psycho Dave) wrote in
news:ea202634.0409251221.49887dfb@posting.google.com:

I've been asking this question all over the message boards and
news groups, and the results are the same wherever I go. It's
absolutely amazing.

I ask:
"How many dead, young American soldiers and beheaded civilians
will it take before you think the war in Iraq is not worth it?"

Most of the responses just blow off the question, bring up World
War 2, accuse me of being a "make love not war hippie peacenik",
and so on. Nobody has answer the question yet. They just see it
and go "You *****!"

I even provided multiple choice answers:

(1) 1,000
(2) 10,000
(3) 50,000 (Vietnam US death toll)
(4) 100,000
(5) AS MANY AS IT TAKES TO GET THE JOB DONE!
(6) None
(7) fill in your own answer

So can any of the conservative Iraq war supporters give a serious
answer to this question. I believe it is a question that all of us
should be asking as citizens... Oh crap! I forgot, I'm an atheist,
and George W. Bush's dad doesn't consider me a citizen! Darn!

But please, try to answer it.

I'll take number 5, thank you.

What exactly *is* the job?

Helping Iraq establish a democratic government and maintaining their
security against any of their neighbors who object to that sort of
thing.

"US officials have also offered a $25m bounty for information leading
to Zarqawi's capture."

That's a lot of money. My bet is that it will go unclaimed.

The bounties for Uday and Qusay were paid out.
Zarqawi's outfit is *not* a popular front. They rule by the same sort of
extreme terror that Saddam's regime used.

The United States Army taught me that when it comes to resistance
fighters, they are the fish and the people are the water.
Without the support of the people the resistance *can not* be a
success. They gave examples of the French resistance which did not
stop even though whole villages were killed by the Nazi. (Sounds
familar) They also had examples of the people not supporting a
movement and it failed.

The "insurgents" are losing the support of the Iraqi people.

They stopped teaching this when Vietnam escalated.

I wonder why.

You've said this before. But what you don't say is that they've begun
teaching it again since Vietnam.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.

User: "Mike Painter"
Title: Re: For Conservatives: How many dead American soldiers will change your mind?	26 Sep 2004 02:06:41 PM

Fred Stone wrote:

"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:31r5d.3185$nj.384@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:

The "insurgents" are losing the support of the Iraqi people.

They stopped teaching this when Vietnam escalated.

I wonder why.

You've said this before. But what you don't say is that they've begun
teaching it again since Vietnam.

Nor are they likely to until such time as the people we "save" and the
regimes we support stop supporting what we are saving them from.
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: For Conservatives: How many dead American soldiers will change your mind?	26 Sep 2004 03:13:14 PM

"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in news:5rE5d.1744
$JG2.185@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com:

Fred Stone wrote:

"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:31r5d.3185$nj.384@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:

The "insurgents" are losing the support of the Iraqi people.

They stopped teaching this when Vietnam escalated.

I wonder why.

You've said this before. But what you don't say is that they've begun
teaching it again since Vietnam.

Nor are they likely to until such time as the people we "save" and the
regimes we support stop supporting what we are saving them from.

Apparantly I wasn't clear enough.
They've *been* teaching it since Vietnam. It's part of the regular
curriculum, at least for officers.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.

User: "Vic Sagerquist"
Title: Re: For Conservatives: How many dead American soldiers will change your mind?	25 Sep 2004 11:23:07 PM

On 25 Sep 2004, Mike Painter dropped trou, farted, whirled, then
shouted:

Fred Stone wrote:

Vic Sagerquist <address@withheld.com> wrote in
news:Xns956FC13E1E4BCvicman@63.240.76.16:

Irish@fmedr.com (Psycho Dave) wrote in
news:ea202634.0409251221.49887dfb@posting.google.com:

I've been asking this question all over the message boards and
news groups, and the results are the same wherever I go. It's
absolutely amazing.

I ask:
"How many dead, young American soldiers and beheaded civilians
will it take before you think the war in Iraq is not worth it?"

Most of the responses just blow off the question, bring up World
War 2, accuse me of being a "make love not war hippie peacenik",
and so on. Nobody has answer the question yet. They just see it
and go "You *****!"

I even provided multiple choice answers:

(1) 1,000
(2) 10,000
(3) 50,000 (Vietnam US death toll)
(4) 100,000
(5) AS MANY AS IT TAKES TO GET THE JOB DONE!
(6) None
(7) fill in your own answer

So can any of the conservative Iraq war supporters give a serious
answer to this question. I believe it is a question that all of us
should be asking as citizens... Oh crap! I forgot, I'm an atheist,
and George W. Bush's dad doesn't consider me a citizen! Darn!

But please, try to answer it.

I'll take number 5, thank you.

What exactly *is* the job?

Helping Iraq establish a democratic government and maintaining their
security against any of their neighbors who object to that sort of
thing.

"US officials have also offered a $25m bounty for information leading
to Zarqawi's capture."

That's a lot of money. My bet is that it will go unclaimed.

The United States Army taught me that when it comes to resistance
fighters, they are the fish and the people are the water.
Without the support of the people the resistance *can not* be a
success. They gave examples of the French resistance which did not
stop even though whole villages were killed by the Nazi. (Sounds
familar) They also had examples of the people not supporting a
movement and it failed.

They stopped teaching this when Vietnam escalated.

I wonder why.

Because it resembled Imperialism?
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
The whole foundation of Christianity is based on the idea that
intellectualism is the work of the Devil. Remember the apple on the tree?
Okay, it was the Tree of Knowledge. "You eat this apple, you're going to
be as smart as God. We can't have that."
[Frank Zappa]
.

User: "Mike Painter"
Title: Re: For Conservatives: How many dead American soldiers will change your mind?	26 Sep 2004 03:18:39 AM

Vic Sagerquist wrote:

On 25 Sep 2004, Mike Painter dropped trou, farted, whirled, then
shouted:

<snip>

Helping Iraq establish a democratic government and maintaining their
security against any of their neighbors who object to that sort of
thing.

"US officials have also offered a $25m bounty for information leading
to Zarqawi's capture."

That's a lot of money. My bet is that it will go unclaimed.

The United States Army taught me that when it comes to resistance
fighters, they are the fish and the people are the water.
Without the support of the people the resistance *can not* be a
success. They gave examples of the French resistance which did not
stop even though whole villages were killed by the Nazi. (Sounds
familar) They also had examples of the people not supporting a
movement and it failed.

They stopped teaching this when Vietnam escalated.

I wonder why.

Because it resembled Imperialism?

I suspect it was because we were being told we were there to help the
people. A lot of people I knew re-upped because they believed it.
If what the Army taught was true, and I think it was/is, then the fact that
the resistance continued demonstrated we were not helping them.
.

User: "Olrik"
Title: Re: For Conservatives: How many dead American soldiers will changeyour mind?	26 Sep 2004 01:09:48 AM

Fred Stone wrote:

Vic Sagerquist <address@withheld.com> wrote in
news:Xns956FC13E1E4BCvicman@63.240.76.16:

Irish@fmedr.com (Psycho Dave) wrote in
news:ea202634.0409251221.49887dfb@posting.google.com:

I've been asking this question all over the message boards and news
groups, and the results are the same wherever I go. It's absolutely
amazing.

I ask:
"How many dead, young American soldiers and beheaded civilians will
it take before you think the war in Iraq is not worth it?"

Most of the responses just blow off the question, bring up World War
2, accuse me of being a "make love not war hippie peacenik", and so
on. Nobody has answer the question yet. They just see it and go "You
*****!"

I even provided multiple choice answers:

(1) 1,000
(2) 10,000
(3) 50,000 (Vietnam US death toll)
(4) 100,000
(5) AS MANY AS IT TAKES TO GET THE JOB DONE!
(6) None
(7) fill in your own answer

So can any of the conservative Iraq war supporters give a serious
answer to this question. I believe it is a question that all of us
should be asking as citizens... Oh crap! I forgot, I'm an atheist,
and George W. Bush's dad doesn't consider me a citizen! Darn!

But please, try to answer it.

I'll take number 5, thank you.

What exactly *is* the job?

Helping Iraq establish a democratic government and maintaining their
security against any of their neighbors who object to that sort of
thing.

Amusing.
If Iran finally ends up with nukes, will the USA help a "democratic"
Iraq gets its own nukes? That would be very funny.
--
Olrik
aa #1981
Qualified SMASH member
EAC Chief Food Inspector, Bacon Division
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: For Conservatives: How many dead American soldiers will change your mind?	26 Sep 2004 09:36:19 AM

Olrik <olrik666@yahoo_BACON!_.com> wrote in
news:O2t5d.67221$pJ4.1898278@weber.videotron.net:

Fred Stone wrote:

Vic Sagerquist <address@withheld.com> wrote in
news:Xns956FC13E1E4BCvicman@63.240.76.16:

Irish@fmedr.com (Psycho Dave) wrote in
news:ea202634.0409251221.49887dfb@posting.google.com:

I've been asking this question all over the message boards and news
groups, and the results are the same wherever I go. It's absolutely
amazing.

I ask:
"How many dead, young American soldiers and beheaded civilians will
it take before you think the war in Iraq is not worth it?"

Most of the responses just blow off the question, bring up World
War 2, accuse me of being a "make love not war hippie peacenik",
and so on. Nobody has answer the question yet. They just see it and
go "You *****!"

I even provided multiple choice answers:

(1) 1,000
(2) 10,000
(3) 50,000 (Vietnam US death toll)
(4) 100,000
(5) AS MANY AS IT TAKES TO GET THE JOB DONE!
(6) None
(7) fill in your own answer

So can any of the conservative Iraq war supporters give a serious
answer to this question. I believe it is a question that all of us
should be asking as citizens... Oh crap! I forgot, I'm an atheist,
and George W. Bush's dad doesn't consider me a citizen! Darn!

But please, try to answer it.

I'll take number 5, thank you.

What exactly *is* the job?

Helping Iraq establish a democratic government and maintaining their
security against any of their neighbors who object to that sort of
thing.

Amusing.

If Iran finally ends up with nukes, will the USA help a "democratic"
Iraq gets its own nukes? That would be very funny.

Why the scare quotes on "democratic"?
And if you're so easily amused, here's a good one:
http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/04.09.23.HighStakes-X.gif
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.

User: "Olrik"
Title: Re: For Conservatives: How many dead American soldiers will changeyour mind?	26 Sep 2004 10:59:13 PM

Fred Stone wrote:

Olrik <olrik666@yahoo_BACON!_.com> wrote in
news:O2t5d.67221$pJ4.1898278@weber.videotron.net:

Fred Stone wrote:

Vic Sagerquist <address@withheld.com> wrote in
news:Xns956FC13E1E4BCvicman@63.240.76.16:

Irish@fmedr.com (Psycho Dave) wrote in
news:ea202634.0409251221.49887dfb@posting.google.com:

I've been asking this question all over the message boards and news
groups, and the results are the same wherever I go. It's absolutely
amazing.

I ask:
"How many dead, young American soldiers and beheaded civilians will
it take before you think the war in Iraq is not worth it?"

Most of the responses just blow off the question, bring up World
War 2, accuse me of being a "make love not war hippie peacenik",
and so on. Nobody has answer the question yet. They just see it and
go "You *****!"

I even provided multiple choice answers:

(1) 1,000
(2) 10,000
(3) 50,000 (Vietnam US death toll)
(4) 100,000
(5) AS MANY AS IT TAKES TO GET THE JOB DONE!
(6) None
(7) fill in your own answer

So can any of the conservative Iraq war supporters give a serious
answer to this question. I believe it is a question that all of us
should be asking as citizens... Oh crap! I forgot, I'm an atheist,
and George W. Bush's dad doesn't consider me a citizen! Darn!

But please, try to answer it.

I'll take number 5, thank you.

What exactly *is* the job?

Helping Iraq establish a democratic government and maintaining their
security against any of their neighbors who object to that sort of
thing.

Amusing.

If Iran finally ends up with nukes, will the USA help a "democratic"
Iraq gets its own nukes? That would be very funny.

Why the scare quotes on "democratic"?

They were so many communists countries with the word "democratic" in
their names, it was not even funny. Now, I don't know what will happen
in the future in Iraq, but the Bush administration clearly stated that
they will not accept a democratically elected fundy muslim state.
They even said that it would be OK if parts of Iraq (the so-called
"no-go" zones) could not vote. They since back-pedalled a bit on that
one, but it shows how they think.

And if you're so easily amused, here's a good one:

http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/04.09.23.HighStakes-X.gif

Ah yes. Ha ha. Big cowboys with guns against savages. I pity you.
--
Olrik
aa #1981
Qualified SMASH member
EAC Chief Food Inspector, Bacon Division
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: For Conservatives: How many dead American soldiers will change your mind?	27 Sep 2004 07:23:10 AM

Olrik <olrik666@yahoo_BACON!_.com> wrote in news:oeM5d.23182$2Y2.696958
@weber.videotron.net:

Fred Stone wrote:

Olrik <olrik666@yahoo_BACON!_.com> wrote in
news:O2t5d.67221$pJ4.1898278@weber.videotron.net:

Fred Stone wrote:

Vic Sagerquist <address@withheld.com> wrote in
news:Xns956FC13E1E4BCvicman@63.240.76.16:

Irish@fmedr.com (Psycho Dave) wrote in
news:ea202634.0409251221.49887dfb@posting.google.com:

I've been asking this question all over the message boards and

news

groups, and the results are the same wherever I go. It's

absolutely

amazing.

I ask:
"How many dead, young American soldiers and beheaded civilians

will

it take before you think the war in Iraq is not worth it?"

Most of the responses just blow off the question, bring up World
War 2, accuse me of being a "make love not war hippie peacenik",
and so on. Nobody has answer the question yet. They just see it

and

go "You *****!"

I even provided multiple choice answers:

(1) 1,000
(2) 10,000
(3) 50,000 (Vietnam US death toll)
(4) 100,000
(5) AS MANY AS IT TAKES TO GET THE JOB DONE!
(6) None
(7) fill in your own answer

So can any of the conservative Iraq war supporters give a serious
answer to this question. I believe it is a question that all of

should be asking as citizens... Oh crap! I forgot, I'm an

atheist,

and George W. Bush's dad doesn't consider me a citizen! Darn!

But please, try to answer it.

I'll take number 5, thank you.

What exactly *is* the job?

Helping Iraq establish a democratic government and maintaining their
security against any of their neighbors who object to that sort of
thing.

Amusing.

If Iran finally ends up with nukes, will the USA help a "democratic"
Iraq gets its own nukes? That would be very funny.

Why the scare quotes on "democratic"?

Totalitarian states don't get legitimately elected.

They even said that it would be OK if parts of Iraq (the so-called
"no-go" zones) could not vote. They since back-pedalled a bit on that
one, but it shows how they think.

It ought to be OK. If the Sunnis can't get their ***** together, they
don't get to vote. ***** them.

And if you're so easily amused, here's a good one:

http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/04.09.23.HighStakes-X.gif

Ah yes. Ha ha. Big cowboys with guns against savages. I pity you.

Save your pity for the people of Iran and the other hostages to fortune
who suffer while you smirk about "US Imperialism".
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.

User: "Mike Painter"
Title: Re: For Conservatives: How many dead American soldiers will change your mind?	27 Sep 2004 01:15:54 PM

Fred Stone wrote:
<snip>

It ought to be OK. If the Sunnis can't get their ***** together, they
don't get to vote. ***** them.

Well, there's a clear definition of a democratic process.
Except for "***** them" It's exactly what the fundamentalists would like to
see.
Change it to kill them and they will be happy.
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: For Conservatives: How many dead American soldiers will change your mind?	27 Sep 2004 02:15:01 PM

"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:uNY5d.3638$nj.1103@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:

Fred Stone wrote:
<snip>

It ought to be OK. If the Sunnis can't get their ***** together, they
don't get to vote. ***** them.

Well, there's a clear definition of a democratic process.
Except for "***** them" It's exactly what the fundamentalists would
like to see.
Change it to kill them and they will be happy.

Notice that the UN and the liberals including Kerry would have those no-
go areas which amount to a small percentage of the country shut down the
elections for the entire country.
And I seem to recall some discussion right here on alt.atheism about
what would happen in the United States if there were a terrorist attack
on election day. Oh, no, we can't shut down the elections because of
terrorists!
Which way do you want it?
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.

User: "Mike Painter"
Title: Re: For Conservatives: How many dead American soldiers will change your mind?	27 Sep 2004 07:41:09 PM

Fred Stone wrote:

"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:uNY5d.3638$nj.1103@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:

Fred Stone wrote:
<snip>

It ought to be OK. If the Sunnis can't get their ***** together, they
don't get to vote. ***** them.

Well, there's a clear definition of a democratic process.
Except for "***** them" It's exactly what the fundamentalists would
like to see.
Change it to kill them and they will be happy.

Notice that the UN and the liberals including Kerry would have those
no- go areas which amount to a small percentage of the country shut
down the elections for the entire country.

Unless the whole country can vote it is not a democratic process. Talking
about a "small percentage" of the country without defining what is meant
does not help your stand. New York is a small percentage of our land. So is
Florida.
For either side to talk about what will or will not happen shows just how
democratic any process can be. We allegedly turned the country over in June
as I recall.
None of what you are saying here reflects on your views that people in
protest should not get to vote.
We had the right to invade, we have the right to continue killing, we have
the right to say we have turned the country over and still dictate terms to
them, we have the right to tell them what kind of a government to have.
It is the same right as the bully who is bigger than everybody else. We do
it because we can.
So did Rome and all the other tryants. Maybe some day people will grow up.
Maybe some day nations will do the same.
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: For Conservatives: How many dead American soldiers will change your mind?	27 Sep 2004 08:17:28 PM

"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:Fq26d.3704$nj.2908@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:

Fred Stone wrote:

"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:uNY5d.3638$nj.1103@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:

Fred Stone wrote:
<snip>

It ought to be OK. If the Sunnis can't get their ***** together,
they don't get to vote. ***** them.

Well, there's a clear definition of a democratic process.
Except for "***** them" It's exactly what the fundamentalists would
like to see.
Change it to kill them and they will be happy.

Notice that the UN and the liberals including Kerry would have those
no- go areas which amount to a small percentage of the country shut
down the elections for the entire country.

Unless the whole country can vote it is not a democratic process.

So I take it that you've changed your position from that of a few weeks
ago when we shouldn't even consider the possibility of a terrorist
attack on the US election process.

Talking about a "small percentage" of the country without defining
what is meant does not help your stand. New York is a small percentage
of our land. So is Florida.

That doesn't change a thing.

For either side to talk about what will or will not happen shows just
how democratic any process can be. We allegedly turned the country
over in June as I recall.

None of what you are saying here reflects on your views that people in
protest should not get to vote.

I like how you water down the state of affairs in the affected areas.
"In protest" as opposed to "disrupted by terrorists". If the Sunni
locals would cooperate with the Coalition the terrorists could be shut
down within a few weeks.

We had the right to invade, we have the right to continue killing, we
have the right to say we have turned the country over and still
dictate terms to them, we have the right to tell them what kind of a
government to have.

It is the same right as the bully who is bigger than everybody else.
We do it because we can.

You can call names all you like. Liberty is still better than despotism,
and the US are not the tyrants.

So did Rome and all the other tryants. Maybe some day people will
grow up. Maybe some day nations will do the same.

Maybe some day the unique role of the US at this period will be
recognized.
Why did you avoid this below?
And I seem to recall some discussion right here on alt.atheism about
what would happen in the United States if there were a terrorist attack
on election day. Oh, no, we can't shut down the elections because of
terrorists!
Which way do you want it?
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.

User: "Mike Painter"
Title: Re: For Conservatives: How many dead American soldiers will change your mind?	27 Sep 2004 10:18:53 PM

Fred Stone wrote:

"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:Fq26d.3704$nj.2908@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:

Fred Stone wrote:

"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:uNY5d.3638$nj.1103@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:

Fred Stone wrote:
<snip>

It ought to be OK. If the Sunnis can't get their ***** together,
they don't get to vote. ***** them.

Well, there's a clear definition of a democratic process.
Except for "***** them" It's exactly what the fundamentalists would
like to see.
Change it to kill them and they will be happy.

Notice that the UN and the liberals including Kerry would have those
no- go areas which amount to a small percentage of the country shut
down the elections for the entire country.

Unless the whole country can vote it is not a democratic process.

So I take it that you've changed your position from that of a few
weeks ago when we shouldn't even consider the possibility of a
terrorist attack on the US election process.

Please post any documents where I took part in such a conversation.

Talking about a "small percentage" of the country without defining
what is meant does not help your stand. New York is a small
percentage of our land. So is Florida.

That doesn't change a thing.

No it does not. Democratic elections do not exclude 20% of the population.

Exactly what I have been saying. They don't because they support them. You
mentioned that this doctrine is being taught again to officers.

We had the right to invade, we have the right to continue killing,
we have the right to say we have turned the country over and still
dictate terms to them, we have the right to tell them what kind of a
government to have.

It is the same right as the bully who is bigger than everybody else.
We do it because we can.

You can call names all you like. Liberty is still better than
despotism, and the US are not the tyrants.

When I say you are free to do anything I let you do, that is depotic.
If we decide when and how they may hold elections it is the action of a
tryant.

So did Rome and all the other tryants. Maybe some day people will
grow up. Maybe some day nations will do the same.

Maybe some day the unique role of the US at this period will be
recognized.

It already is by most of the world. They either laugh at us or hold us in
contempt.
These are the countries where the standard of living is going up, (and they
already have three week vacations) and even the kids are growing taller
that US kids now.

Why did you avoid this below?

And I seem to recall some discussion right here on alt.atheism about
what would happen in the United States if there were a terrorist
attack on election day. Oh, no, we can't shut down the elections
because of terrorists!

Which way do you want it?

I took no part in the discussion and what we do in our country is not the
same as what we force on other countries.
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: For Conservatives: How many dead American soldiers will change your mind?	28 Sep 2004 08:27:59 AM

"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:xK46d.2172$JG2.1440@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com:

Fred Stone wrote:

"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:Fq26d.3704$nj.2908@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:

Fred Stone wrote:

"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:uNY5d.3638$nj.1103@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:

Fred Stone wrote:
<snip>

It ought to be OK. If the Sunnis can't get their ***** together,
they don't get to vote. ***** them.

Well, there's a clear definition of a democratic process.
Except for "***** them" It's exactly what the fundamentalists would
like to see.
Change it to kill them and they will be happy.

Notice that the UN and the liberals including Kerry would have
those no- go areas which amount to a small percentage of the
country shut down the elections for the entire country.

Unless the whole country can vote it is not a democratic process.

So I take it that you've changed your position from that of a few
weeks ago when we shouldn't even consider the possibility of a
terrorist attack on the US election process.

Please post any documents where I took part in such a conversation.

Talking about a "small percentage" of the country without defining
what is meant does not help your stand. New York is a small
percentage of our land. So is Florida.

That doesn't change a thing.

No it does not. Democratic elections do not exclude 20% of the
population.

20% of the population of Iraq are not in no-go zones.

For either side to talk about what will or will not happen shows
just how democratic any process can be. We allegedly turned the
country over in June as I recall.

None of what you are saying here reflects on your views that people
in protest should not get to vote.

Exactly what I have been saying. They don't because they support them.

They don't support them, they're *afraid* of them.

You mentioned that this doctrine is being taught again to officers.

We had the right to invade, we have the right to continue killing,
we have the right to say we have turned the country over and still
dictate terms to them, we have the right to tell them what kind of a
government to have.

It is the same right as the bully who is bigger than everybody else.
We do it because we can.

You can call names all you like. Liberty is still better than
despotism, and the US are not the tyrants.

When I say you are free to do anything I let you do, that is depotic.
If we decide when and how they may hold elections it is the action of
a tryant.

So did Rome and all the other tryants. Maybe some day people will
grow up. Maybe some day nations will do the same.

Maybe some day the unique role of the US at this period will be
recognized.

It already is by most of the world. They either laugh at us or hold us
in contempt.
These are the countries where the standard of living is going up, (and
they already have three week vacations) and even the kids are growing
taller that US kids now.

I took no part in the discussion and what we do in our country is not
the same as what we force on other countries.

Hypocrite.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.

User: "Daniel Kolle"
Title: Re: For Conservatives: How many dead American soldiers will change your mind?	28 Sep 2004 04:34:05 PM

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:41:09 GMT, "Mike Painter"
<mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> thought hard and said:
<snip>

Unless the whole country can vote it is not a democratic process.

Less than half of eligible voters typically show up for election in
the US. Are the results part of a "democratic process" or not? Are you
one of those people who wants compulsory voting?
--
-Daniel "Mr. Brevity" Kolle; 16 A.A. #2035
Koji Kondo, Yo-Yo Ma, Gustav Mahler, Krzysztof Penderecki, and Geirr Tveitt are my Gods.
Head of EAC Denial Department and Madly Insane Scientist.
.

User: "Kate "
Title: Re: For Conservatives: How many dead American soldiers will change your mind?	28 Sep 2004 06:36:22 PM

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 16:34:05 -0500, Daniel Kolle <DKolle@hotmail.com>
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:41:09 GMT, "Mike Painter"
<mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> thought hard and said:

<snip>

Unless the whole country can vote it is not a democratic process.

Less than half of eligible voters typically show up for election in
the US. Are the results part of a "democratic process" or not? Are you
one of those people who wants compulsory voting?

That's hardly the same thing as not being able to vote because someone
decided that where you vote isn't peacible enough. The former, the
non voters have the power, just choose not to use it, the latter, the
people who decide where is peacable enough have the power.
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: For Conservatives: How many dead American soldiers will change your mind?	28 Sep 2004 07:44:04 PM

(Kate ) wrote in news:4166f48b.172940468@news-
west.newscene.com:

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 16:34:05 -0500, Daniel Kolle <DKolle@hotmail.com>
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:41:09 GMT, "Mike Painter"
<mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> thought hard and said:

<snip>

Unless the whole country can vote it is not a democratic process.

Less than half of eligible voters typically show up for election in
the US. Are the results part of a "democratic process" or not? Are you
one of those people who wants compulsory voting?

That is the problem that the UN is trying to exploit to set its own
agenda for both Afghanistan and Iraq.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.

User: "Olrik"
Title: Re: For Conservatives: How many dead American soldiers will changeyour mind?	27 Sep 2004 03:05:42 PM

Fred Stone wrote:
[snip]

Totalitarian states don't get legitimately elected.

Oh? Hitler was elected.

They even said that it would be OK if parts of Iraq (the so-called
"no-go" zones) could not vote. They since back-pedalled a bit on that
one, but it shows how they think.

It ought to be OK. If the Sunnis can't get their ***** together, they
don't get to vote. ***** them.

Nice respect for the democratic process. How about the legitimacy of the
elected governement if a good part of the population could not vote?

And if you're so easily amused, here's a good one:

http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/04.09.23.HighStakes-X.gif

Ah yes. Ha ha. Big cowboys with guns against savages. I pity you.

Save your pity for the people of Iran and the other hostages to fortune
who suffer while you smirk about "US Imperialism".

I empathize with every person who lives in unfortunate circumstances.
And why the quotes on "US Imperialism"? ;-)
--
Olrik
aa #1981
Qualified SMASH member
EAC Chief Food Inspector, Bacon Division
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: For Conservatives: How many dead American soldiers will change your mind?	27 Sep 2004 04:32:01 PM

Olrik <olrik666@yahoo_BACON!_.com> wrote in
news:so_5d.2271$QU5.189275@wagner.videotron.net:

Fred Stone wrote:

[snip]

Totalitarian states don't get legitimately elected.

Oh? Hitler was elected.

He didn't turn Germany into a totalitarian state by entirely legitimate
methods. There were some serious flaws in the Weimar constitution too.

They even said that it would be OK if parts of Iraq (the so-called
"no-go" zones) could not vote. They since back-pedalled a bit on that
one, but it shows how they think.

It ought to be OK. If the Sunnis can't get their ***** together, they
don't get to vote. ***** them.

Nice respect for the democratic process. How about the legitimacy of
the elected governement if a good part of the population could not
vote?

Didn't we just recently have a discussion about that if there was a
terrorist attack here in the US? Oh, no, we wouldn't even *dream* of
rescheduling elections or making contingency plans if a few precincts
couldn't vote (which is about what Iraq would be looking at). Which way
do you want it?

And if you're so easily amused, here's a good one:

http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/04.09.23.HighStakes-X.gif

Ah yes. Ha ha. Big cowboys with guns against savages. I pity you.

Save your pity for the people of Iran and the other hostages to
fortune who suffer while you smirk about "US Imperialism".

I empathize with every person who lives in unfortunate circumstances.

And why the quotes on "US Imperialism"? ;-)

Because we're liberators not imperialists.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.

User: "Ruxoid"
Title: Re: For Conservatives: How many dead American soldiers will change your mind?	27 Sep 2004 04:50:56 PM

Subject: Re: For Conservatives: How many dead American soldiers will change
your mind?
From: Fred Stone

Date: 9/27/2004 2:32 PM US Mountain Standard Time
Message-id: <Xns9571B25FD48F5fstone69@207.69.189.195>

Olrik <olrik666@yahoo_BACON!_.com> wrote in
news:so_5d.2271$QU5.189275@wagner.videotron.net: