Religions > Atheism > For Frankie boy - Knowledge, Belief, Faith & Socialization
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Amangi Machque" |
| Date: |
08 Mar 2006 03:26:58 AM |
| Object: |
For Frankie boy - Knowledge, Belief, Faith & Socialization |
All convictions can be classified into one of four categories:
1. Knowledge - you are absolutely certain - e.g. the fact that you have five
fingers.
2. Belief - you have some, but incomplete evidence.
3. Faith - you have a desire to believe, with no supporting evidence.
4. Socialization - you accept it based on societal conditioning.
Did your brother rob a bank this week? You don't believe so... Your
brother's good character is evidence that he didn't rob a bank, but you
can't be absolutely sure. If you were suddenly presented with witnesses,
fingerprints and a video showing your brother walking into the bank carrying
a shotgun and commanding, "Give me all your money!" you'd say, "Gee, I never
would have believed it."
However, if one day you were confronted with a videotape and witnesses
saying, "You robbed a bank," you'd say, "It's a frame-up, it's ridiculous" ?
because you know it's absolutely false. That's the difference between
knowledge and belief.
Faith is a leap against logic, a product of desire. Did you ever get a hot
tip on the stock market guaranteeing to triple your money in one month? Many
people with good sense still get fleeced because they are allured by the
promise of quick money. That's faith.
Socialization is ideas you accept from society without ever checking them
out for yourself. In America, it's capitalism; in China it's communism. To
Iranians, Mohammed is god; to Italians it's Jesus. Have you examined the
evidence - or are you going along with the crowd? (Excerpted from "How Can
We Be Sure of Anything"; Noah Weinberg)
--
Machque
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past, Wisdom is of the
future." Lumbee
"The one who tells the stories rules the world." Hopi
"Sing your death song and die like a hero going home." Shawnee
.
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| User: "Roy Jose Lorr" |
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| Title: Re: For Frankie boy - Knowledge, Belief, Faith & Socialization |
08 Mar 2006 11:24:14 AM |
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Amangi Machque wrote:
All convictions can be classified into one of four categories:
Its pretty hard to differentiate between belief and faith.
1. Knowledge - you are absolutely certain - e.g. the fact that you have five
fingers.
2. Belief - you have some, but incomplete evidence.
Belief in evidence you didn't collect yourself is faith.
3. Faith - you have a desire to believe, with no supporting evidence.
Faith does not require evidence, positive or negative.
4. Socialization - you accept it based on societal conditioning.
This is not a personal 'conviction'. Faith in the rules of others is
not a conceptually relevant act.
<snip>
--
The last stage of
utopian sentimentalism
is homicidal mania.
.
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: For Frankie boy - Knowledge, Belief, Faith & Socialization |
08 Mar 2006 10:38:23 PM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Roy Jose Lorr
(mosestorah@worldnet.att.net) made the light shine upon us with this:
Amangi Machque wrote:
All convictions can be classified into one of four categories:
Its pretty hard to differentiate between belief and faith.
Unless you read and understand the OP.
1. Knowledge - you are absolutely certain - e.g. the fact that you
have five fingers.
2. Belief - you have some, but incomplete evidence.
Belief in evidence you didn't collect yourself is faith.
3. Faith - you have a desire to believe, with no supporting evidence.
Faith does not require evidence, positive or negative.
As we witness on a daily basis, theists all over the globe refuse to give
up their faith despite overwhelming evidence against it.
OK, give it to me baby. "So You Pray".
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
Atheists get to live their lives in accordance with their own desires. I
call that a win, compared to the collossal waste of time being an active
Christian. Atheist: win. Christian: lose. "No win" never comes into
play, because there are no gods.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: For Frankie boy - Knowledge, Belief, Faith & Socialization |
09 Mar 2006 03:39:33 AM |
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On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 22:38:23 -0600, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <Xns9780D1C925E61vicman@216.196.97.136>
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Roy Jose Lorr
(mosestorah@worldnet.att.net) made the light shine upon us with this:
Amangi Machque wrote:
All convictions can be classified into one of four categories:
Its pretty hard to differentiate between belief and faith.
Unless you read and understand the OP.
Roy has a history of deliberately lying about "misunderstanding" other
posters, in order that he may further push his degenerate delusions.
1. Knowledge - you are absolutely certain - e.g. the fact that you
have five fingers.
2. Belief - you have some, but incomplete evidence.
Belief in evidence you didn't collect yourself is faith.
3. Faith - you have a desire to believe, with no supporting evidence.
Faith does not require evidence, positive or negative.
As we witness on a daily basis, theists all over the globe refuse to give
up their faith despite overwhelming evidence against it.
OK, give it to me baby. "So You Pray".
.
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| User: "Roy Jose Lorr" |
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| Title: Re: For Frankie boy - Knowledge, Belief, Faith & Socialization |
08 Mar 2006 11:12:02 PM |
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Uncle Vic wrote:
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Roy Jose Lorr
(mosestorah@worldnet.att.net) made the light shine upon us with this:
Amangi Machque wrote:
All convictions can be classified into one of four categories:
Its pretty hard to differentiate between belief and faith.
Unless you read and understand the OP.
Did I miss something?
1. Knowledge - you are absolutely certain - e.g. the fact that you
have five fingers.
2. Belief - you have some, but incomplete evidence.
Belief in evidence you didn't collect yourself is faith.
3. Faith - you have a desire to believe, with no supporting evidence.
Faith does not require evidence, positive or negative.
As we witness on a daily basis, theists all over the globe refuse to give
up their faith despite overwhelming evidence against it.
You have evidence disproving the existence of God. Let's see it.
--
The last stage of
utopian sentimentalism
is homicidal mania.
.
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| User: "Amangi Machque" |
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| Title: Re: For Frankie boy - Knowledge, Belief, Faith & Socialization |
08 Mar 2006 11:42:07 PM |
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"Roy Jose Lorr" wrote
: You have evidence disproving the existence of God. Let's see it.
C'mon José, you are smarter than that.
--
Machque
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past, Wisdom is of the
future." Lumbee
"The one who tells the stories rules the world." Hopi
"Sing your death song and die like a hero going home." Shawnee
.
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: For Frankie boy - Knowledge, Belief, Faith & Socialization |
08 Mar 2006 11:53:11 PM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Amangi Machque
(bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net) made the light shine upon us with this:
"Roy Jose Lorr" wrote
: You have evidence disproving the existence of God. Let's see it.
C'mon José, you are smarter than that.
No, he isn't.
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
Atheists get to live their lives in accordance with their own desires. I
call that a win, compared to the collossal waste of time being an active
Christian. Atheist: win. Christian: lose. "No win" never comes into
play, because there are no gods.
.
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: For Frankie boy - Knowledge, Belief, Faith & Socialization |
08 Mar 2006 11:52:51 PM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Roy Jose Lorr
(mosestorah@worldnet.att.net) made the light shine upon us with this:
You have evidence disproving the existence of God. Let's see it.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/evil/
http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/evil.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil
http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=79868
http://www.tyler.net/triddorus/omniscience.html
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
Atheists get to live their lives in accordance with their own desires. I
call that a win, compared to the collossal waste of time being an active
Christian. Atheist: win. Christian: lose. "No win" never comes into
play, because there are no gods.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: For Frankie boy - Knowledge, Belief, Faith & Socialization |
08 Mar 2006 06:01:31 AM |
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On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 04:26:58 -0500, "Amangi Machque"
<bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote:
- Refer: <ToSdnR-T_-z-PpPZnZ2dnUVZ_tmdnZ2d@comcast.com>
All convictions can be classified into one of four categories:
1. Knowledge - you are absolutely certain - e.g. the fact that you have five
fingers.
2. Belief - you have some, but incomplete evidence.
3. Faith - you have a desire to believe, with no supporting evidence.
4. Socialization - you accept it based on societal conditioning.
Did your brother rob a bank this week? You don't believe so... Your
brother's good character is evidence that he didn't rob a bank, but you
can't be absolutely sure. If you were suddenly presented with witnesses,
fingerprints and a video showing your brother walking into the bank carrying
a shotgun and commanding, "Give me all your money!" you'd say, "Gee, I never
would have believed it."
However, if one day you were confronted with a videotape and witnesses
saying, "You robbed a bank," you'd say, "It's a frame-up, it's ridiculous" ?
because you know it's absolutely false. That's the difference between
knowledge and belief.
Faith is a leap against logic, a product of desire. Did you ever get a hot
tip on the stock market guaranteeing to triple your money in one month? Many
people with good sense still get fleeced because they are allured by the
promise of quick money. That's faith.
Socialization is ideas you accept from society without ever checking them
out for yourself. In America, it's capitalism; in China it's communism. To
Iranians, Mohammed is god; to Italians it's Jesus. Have you examined the
evidence - or are you going along with the crowd? (Excerpted from "How Can
We Be Sure of Anything"; Noah Weinberg)
You left out the zeroeth option:
0. Theist - Believe it implicitly, in the face of overwhelming facts
and undeniable evidence against.
.
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| User: "Amangi Machque" |
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| Title: Re: For Frankie boy - Knowledge, Belief, Faith & Socialization |
08 Mar 2006 06:21:52 AM |
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"Michael Gray" wrote
: "Amangi Machque" wrote:
: >All convictions can be classified into one of four categories:
: >
: >1. Knowledge - you are absolutely certain - e.g. the fact that you have
five
: >fingers.
: >
: >2. Belief - you have some, but incomplete evidence.
: >
: >3. Faith - you have a desire to believe, with no supporting evidence.
: >
: >4. Socialization - you accept it based on societal conditioning.
: >
: >Did your brother rob a bank this week? You don't believe so... Your
: >brother's good character is evidence that he didn't rob a bank, but you
: >can't be absolutely sure. If you were suddenly presented with witnesses,
: >fingerprints and a video showing your brother walking into the bank
carrying
: >a shotgun and commanding, "Give me all your money!" you'd say, "Gee, I
never
: >would have believed it."
: >
: >However, if one day you were confronted with a videotape and witnesses
: >saying, "You robbed a bank," you'd say, "It's a frame-up, it's
ridiculous" ?
: >because you know it's absolutely false. That's the difference between
: >knowledge and belief.
: >
: >Faith is a leap against logic, a product of desire. Did you ever get a
hot
: >tip on the stock market guaranteeing to triple your money in one month?
Many
: >people with good sense still get fleeced because they are allured by the
: >promise of quick money. That's faith.
: >
: >Socialization is ideas you accept from society without ever checking them
: >out for yourself. In America, it's capitalism; in China it's communism.
To
: >Iranians, Mohammed is god; to Italians it's Jesus. Have you examined the
: >evidence - or are you going along with the crowd? (Excerpted from "How
Can
: >We Be Sure of Anything"; Noah Weinberg)
:
: You left out the zeroeth option:
:
: 0. Theist - Believe it implicitly, in the face of overwhelming facts
: and undeniable evidence against.
Especially Frank.
--
Machque
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past, Wisdom is of the
future." Lumbee
"The one who tells the stories rules the world." Hopi
"Sing your death song and die like a hero going home." Shawnee
.
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