| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"MrPepper11" |
| Date: |
01 May 2005 10:52:39 AM |
| Object: |
Forcing babies to have babies is now Jeb Bush's policy |
Miami Herald
May 1, 2005
DCF policy: Forcing babies to have babies
CARL HIAASEN
Forcing babies to have babies is now the official policy of Florida's
child-welfare agency.
The sadists running the Department of Children & Families are trying to
stop a 13-year-old girl under foster care from getting an abortion.
They say that she's too immature to decide whether or not she should
have the baby.
The logic is diabolically cockeyed. If the girl isn't mature enough to
make a sensible choice about her pregnancy, how can she possibly be
mature enough to care for a newborn infant?
An even better question for the extremists at DCF is this: How can any
13-year-old child, from any background, be ready for motherhood?
The girl is publicly known only as L.G., and her life so far hasn't
been a picnic. According to records, her parents lost custody of her
years ago, and she has been raised under state care.
The girl was residing in a group home in St. Petersburg when she became
pregnant 14 weeks ago. She got the news during a medical examination.
Her attorneys say L.G. immediately told her DCF caseworker ``that she
wished to terminate the pregnancy.''
The procedure had been scheduled for last Tuesday, but then the
morality police from Tallahassee arrived. That very morning, DCF
lawyers filed an emergency motion with Palm Beach Circuit Judge Ronald
Alvarez.
He signed a temporary order blocking the abortion and ordered a
competency examination for L.G.
She is represented by lawyers from Palm Beach Legal Aid and the
American Civil Liberties Union. They say that L.G. has never been found
to be incompetent, or institutionalized for mental problems.
They say she should be allowed to make up her own mind about the
pregnancy. The Florida Supreme Court has ruled that the state
constitution offers a shield of privacy in such cases.
DCF insists that it's forbidden by law to let any person under its
supervision undergo an abortion or sterilization procedure. Apparently
this is to ensure that the agency will never run out of clients.
Forcing children in state custody to have babies against their will
guarantees that there will be a whole new generation of abused,
abandoned and neglected kids for taxpayers to support. It's quite a
clever plan.
Unfortunately, DCF can't keep up with the thousands of cases that it's
already got -- cases such as L.G.'s.
In a way, she's one of the lucky ones; she only got pregnant. Others in
state care have been tortured, raped, killed or, in the case of Rilya
Wilson, vaporized into thin air.
With nightmare stories leaking out every few weeks, one would think
that DCF had its hands full. Wrong.
The zealots picked by Gov. Jeb Bush to run the agency are never too
busy to play politics with somebody's private agony. The Terri Schiavo
case was the most recent debacle, but there have been others.
Two years ago, DCF fought to block a severely retarded Orlando woman
from having an abortion. In that case, the agency litigated for so many
months that the operation could not be safely performed. The woman gave
birth, and the infant was put up for adoption.
Such ruthless intrusion into the most private matters is a trademark of
the new Republican right, which seldom wastes an opportunity to whip
the pro-life crowd into a tizzy. It will likely happen again with L.G's
case.
With the governor's political image in mind, DCF carefully tries to
mask its meddling as the act of a caring and concerned overseer. In
fact the driving but unspoken philosophy behind most of the new
abortion restrictions is punitive.
You got knocked up, kid. That's what you get for fooling around.
Now everybody but you gets to decide your future.
That's basically what the state of Florida is telling L.G.
We know what's best for you, kid. You're going to carry this baby for
the next six months, and we don't care whether you want it or not. We
don't care whether you're old enough, responsible enough, sober enough,
stable enough or financially secure enough.
You can give it up for adoption, or you can keep it. If you turn out to
be a lousy mom, we'll simply take it away and stick it in a foster
home, just like we did to you.
A spokeswoman for DCF Secretary Luci Hadi said the agency is doing
''what we believe is in the best interest of the child.'' Sure. If you
happen to believe that unplanned pregnancy is a real character-builder
for teenage girls.
Don't be surprised if DCF uses the same cold-blooded tactics against
L.G. as it did against the retarded woman in Orlando -- dragging the
case out in court until it's too late for a safe abortion.
If someone put your 13-year-old daughter through that kind of cruelty,
you'd know exactly what to call it:
Child abuse.
.
|
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| User: "Tom" |
|
| Title: Re: Forcing babies to have babies is now Jeb Bush's policy |
01 May 2005 07:13:23 PM |
|
|
"MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote in message
news:1114962759.003716.174220@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Miami Herald
May 1, 2005
I guess Bush forced her to have sex so she can be forced to have her baby.
DCF policy: Forcing babies to have babies
CARL HIAASEN
Forcing babies to have babies is now the official policy of Florida's
child-welfare agency.
The sadists running the Department of Children & Families are trying to
stop a 13-year-old girl under foster care from getting an abortion.
They say that she's too immature to decide whether or not she should
have the baby.
The logic is diabolically cockeyed. If the girl isn't mature enough to
make a sensible choice about her pregnancy, how can she possibly be
mature enough to care for a newborn infant?
An even better question for the extremists at DCF is this: How can any
13-year-old child, from any background, be ready for motherhood?
The girl is publicly known only as L.G., and her life so far hasn't
been a picnic. According to records, her parents lost custody of her
years ago, and she has been raised under state care.
The girl was residing in a group home in St. Petersburg when she became
pregnant 14 weeks ago. She got the news during a medical examination.
Her attorneys say L.G. immediately told her DCF caseworker ``that she
wished to terminate the pregnancy.''
The procedure had been scheduled for last Tuesday, but then the
morality police from Tallahassee arrived. That very morning, DCF
lawyers filed an emergency motion with Palm Beach Circuit Judge Ronald
Alvarez.
He signed a temporary order blocking the abortion and ordered a
competency examination for L.G.
She is represented by lawyers from Palm Beach Legal Aid and the
American Civil Liberties Union. They say that L.G. has never been found
to be incompetent, or institutionalized for mental problems.
They say she should be allowed to make up her own mind about the
pregnancy. The Florida Supreme Court has ruled that the state
constitution offers a shield of privacy in such cases.
DCF insists that it's forbidden by law to let any person under its
supervision undergo an abortion or sterilization procedure. Apparently
this is to ensure that the agency will never run out of clients.
Forcing children in state custody to have babies against their will
guarantees that there will be a whole new generation of abused,
abandoned and neglected kids for taxpayers to support. It's quite a
clever plan.
Unfortunately, DCF can't keep up with the thousands of cases that it's
already got -- cases such as L.G.'s.
In a way, she's one of the lucky ones; she only got pregnant. Others in
state care have been tortured, raped, killed or, in the case of Rilya
Wilson, vaporized into thin air.
With nightmare stories leaking out every few weeks, one would think
that DCF had its hands full. Wrong.
The zealots picked by Gov. Jeb Bush to run the agency are never too
busy to play politics with somebody's private agony. The Terri Schiavo
case was the most recent debacle, but there have been others.
Two years ago, DCF fought to block a severely retarded Orlando woman
from having an abortion. In that case, the agency litigated for so many
months that the operation could not be safely performed. The woman gave
birth, and the infant was put up for adoption.
Such ruthless intrusion into the most private matters is a trademark of
the new Republican right, which seldom wastes an opportunity to whip
the pro-life crowd into a tizzy. It will likely happen again with L.G's
case.
With the governor's political image in mind, DCF carefully tries to
mask its meddling as the act of a caring and concerned overseer. In
fact the driving but unspoken philosophy behind most of the new
abortion restrictions is punitive.
You got knocked up, kid. That's what you get for fooling around.
Now everybody but you gets to decide your future.
That's basically what the state of Florida is telling L.G.
We know what's best for you, kid. You're going to carry this baby for
the next six months, and we don't care whether you want it or not. We
don't care whether you're old enough, responsible enough, sober enough,
stable enough or financially secure enough.
You can give it up for adoption, or you can keep it. If you turn out to
be a lousy mom, we'll simply take it away and stick it in a foster
home, just like we did to you.
A spokeswoman for DCF Secretary Luci Hadi said the agency is doing
''what we believe is in the best interest of the child.'' Sure. If you
happen to believe that unplanned pregnancy is a real character-builder
for teenage girls.
Don't be surprised if DCF uses the same cold-blooded tactics against
L.G. as it did against the retarded woman in Orlando -- dragging the
case out in court until it's too late for a safe abortion.
If someone put your 13-year-old daughter through that kind of cruelty,
you'd know exactly what to call it:
Child abuse.
.
|
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| User: "Michelle Malkin" |
|
| Title: Re: Forcing babies to have babies is now Jeb Bush's policy |
01 May 2005 11:14:41 PM |
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"Tom" <Tom@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Hcede.150616$vK6.136870@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
"MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote in message
news:1114962759.003716.174220@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Miami Herald
May 1, 2005
I guess Bush forced her to have sex so she can be forced to have her baby.
She's a thirteen year old child, you moron. Did it ever
occur to you that that the father of the child probably
committed statutory rape? No child should be forced
to have a baby just to satisfy someone else's religious
beliefs. You see this as a political thing. You forget
the just barely teenaged child involved who may still be
13 if forced to carry and deliver an unwanted baby
into the same messed up system that has probably
ruined her life already. Why are you so eager to punish
this child and her possible unborn child? You are evil.
DCF policy: Forcing babies to have babies
CARL HIAASEN
Forcing babies to have babies is now the official policy of Florida's
child-welfare agency.
The sadists running the Department of Children & Families are trying to
stop a 13-year-old girl under foster care from getting an abortion.
They say that she's too immature to decide whether or not she should
have the baby.
The logic is diabolically cockeyed. If the girl isn't mature enough to
make a sensible choice about her pregnancy, how can she possibly be
mature enough to care for a newborn infant?
An even better question for the extremists at DCF is this: How can any
13-year-old child, from any background, be ready for motherhood?
The girl is publicly known only as L.G., and her life so far hasn't
been a picnic. According to records, her parents lost custody of her
years ago, and she has been raised under state care.
The girl was residing in a group home in St. Petersburg when she became
pregnant 14 weeks ago. She got the news during a medical examination.
Her attorneys say L.G. immediately told her DCF caseworker ``that she
wished to terminate the pregnancy.''
The procedure had been scheduled for last Tuesday, but then the
morality police from Tallahassee arrived. That very morning, DCF
lawyers filed an emergency motion with Palm Beach Circuit Judge Ronald
Alvarez.
He signed a temporary order blocking the abortion and ordered a
competency examination for L.G.
She is represented by lawyers from Palm Beach Legal Aid and the
American Civil Liberties Union. They say that L.G. has never been found
to be incompetent, or institutionalized for mental problems.
They say she should be allowed to make up her own mind about the
pregnancy. The Florida Supreme Court has ruled that the state
constitution offers a shield of privacy in such cases.
DCF insists that it's forbidden by law to let any person under its
supervision undergo an abortion or sterilization procedure. Apparently
this is to ensure that the agency will never run out of clients.
Forcing children in state custody to have babies against their will
guarantees that there will be a whole new generation of abused,
abandoned and neglected kids for taxpayers to support. It's quite a
clever plan.
Unfortunately, DCF can't keep up with the thousands of cases that it's
already got -- cases such as L.G.'s.
In a way, she's one of the lucky ones; she only got pregnant. Others in
state care have been tortured, raped, killed or, in the case of Rilya
Wilson, vaporized into thin air.
With nightmare stories leaking out every few weeks, one would think
that DCF had its hands full. Wrong.
The zealots picked by Gov. Jeb Bush to run the agency are never too
busy to play politics with somebody's private agony. The Terri Schiavo
case was the most recent debacle, but there have been others.
Two years ago, DCF fought to block a severely retarded Orlando woman
from having an abortion. In that case, the agency litigated for so many
months that the operation could not be safely performed. The woman gave
birth, and the infant was put up for adoption.
Such ruthless intrusion into the most private matters is a trademark of
the new Republican right, which seldom wastes an opportunity to whip
the pro-life crowd into a tizzy. It will likely happen again with L.G's
case.
With the governor's political image in mind, DCF carefully tries to
mask its meddling as the act of a caring and concerned overseer. In
fact the driving but unspoken philosophy behind most of the new
abortion restrictions is punitive.
You got knocked up, kid. That's what you get for fooling around.
Now everybody but you gets to decide your future.
That's basically what the state of Florida is telling L.G.
We know what's best for you, kid. You're going to carry this baby for
the next six months, and we don't care whether you want it or not. We
don't care whether you're old enough, responsible enough, sober enough,
stable enough or financially secure enough.
You can give it up for adoption, or you can keep it. If you turn out to
be a lousy mom, we'll simply take it away and stick it in a foster
home, just like we did to you.
A spokeswoman for DCF Secretary Luci Hadi said the agency is doing
''what we believe is in the best interest of the child.'' Sure. If you
happen to believe that unplanned pregnancy is a real character-builder
for teenage girls.
Don't be surprised if DCF uses the same cold-blooded tactics against
L.G. as it did against the retarded woman in Orlando -- dragging the
case out in court until it's too late for a safe abortion.
If someone put your 13-year-old daughter through that kind of cruelty,
you'd know exactly what to call it:
Child abuse.
.
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| User: "Peacenik" |
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| Title: Re: Forcing babies to have babies is now Jeb Bush's policy |
02 May 2005 11:45:51 AM |
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"Tom" <Tom@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Hcede.150616$vK6.136870@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
"MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote in message
news:1114962759.003716.174220@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Miami Herald
May 1, 2005
I guess Bush forced her to have sex so she can be forced to have her baby.
You are one evil, sick person. seek help.
.
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| User: "Liz" |
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| Title: Re: Forcing babies to have babies is now Jeb Bush's policy |
01 May 2005 07:40:50 PM |
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On Sun, 1 May 2005 20:13:23 -0400, "Tom" <Tom@yahoo.com> in news
message <Hcede.150616$vK6.136870@bignews3.bellsouth.net> wrote:
"MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote in message
news:1114962759.003716.174220@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Miami Herald
May 1, 2005
I guess Bush forced her to have sex so she can be forced to have her baby.
Do you think that forcing a 13 year old to give birth against her
wishes is an acceptable punishment for her having sex?
Liz #658 BAAWA
I could not believe that anyone who had read this book
would be so foolish as to proclaim that the Bible in every
literal word was the divinely inspired, inerrant word of
God? Have these people simply not read the text? Are they
hopelessly uninformed? Is there a different Bible? Are
they blinded by a combination of ego needs and naivete?
-- Bishop John Shelby Spong!
.
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| User: "junegill" |
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| Title: Re: Forcing babies to have babies is now Jeb Bush's policy |
08 May 2005 12:06:38 AM |
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"Liz" <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message
news:q9ta719sopc06jvikqqud0tnrj49i8jmk3@4ax.com...
On Sun, 1 May 2005 20:13:23 -0400, "Tom" <Tom@yahoo.com> in news
message <Hcede.150616$vK6.136870@bignews3.bellsouth.net> wrote:
"MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote in message
news:1114962759.003716.174220@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Miami Herald
May 1, 2005
I guess Bush forced her to have sex so she can be forced to have her
baby.
Do you think that forcing a 13 year old to give birth against her
wishes is an acceptable punishment for her having sex?
Hi Liz. You and I both know what labour pains are like: if someone were to
inflict even one such pain on a child in any circumstances other than
childbirth, would they not be prosecuted for child abuse? Multiply that
pain by several hundreds or even a thousand and surely the perpetrator would
face a long jail sentence. I think forcing a child to give birth is child
abuse of the grossest kind.
--
June G
# 364
http://uk.geocities.com/junegill@btopenworld.com/webpages/index.html.html
.
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| User: "The Great Hairy One" |
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| Title: Re: Forcing babies to have babies is now Jeb Bush's policy |
08 May 2005 04:39:00 PM |
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In article <d5k6ot$pn7$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
junegill@btinternet.com says...
Hi Liz. You and I both know what labour pains are like: if someone were to
inflict even one such pain on a child in any circumstances other than
childbirth, would they not be prosecuted for child abuse? Multiply that
pain by several hundreds or even a thousand and surely the perpetrator would
face a long jail sentence. I think forcing a child to give birth is child
abuse of the grossest kind.
Heya June! Long time no see. How are you doing?
--
The Great Hairy One,
BAAWA all night long
SMASHing it to the masses
====================================
CEO EAC Roleplaying Division
Roleplay. Just do it.
.
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| User: "junegill" |
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| Title: Re: Forcing babies to have babies is now Jeb Bush's policy |
08 May 2005 07:57:23 PM |
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"The Great Hairy One" <the.great.hairy@GEEmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ce931ffe556dfb1989917@freenews.iinet.net.au...
In article <d5k6ot$pn7$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
junegill@btinternet.com says...
Hi Liz. You and I both know what labour pains are like: if someone were
to
inflict even one such pain on a child in any circumstances other than
childbirth, would they not be prosecuted for child abuse? Multiply that
pain by several hundreds or even a thousand and surely the perpetrator
would
face a long jail sentence. I think forcing a child to give birth is
child
abuse of the grossest kind.
Heya June! Long time no see. How are you doing?
Hi GHO. I'm good thanks - hope you are too. I've been hanging out in the
abortion newsgroups for the last year or so, but I still lurk in alt.atheism
from time to time (just to make sure that you aren't behaving yourself). ;)
--
June G
# 364
http://uk.geocities.com/junegill@btopenworld.com/webpages/index.html.html
.
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| User: "The Great Hairy One" |
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| Title: Re: Forcing babies to have babies is now Jeb Bush's policy |
09 May 2005 06:10:59 AM |
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In article <d5mchj$3v2$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
junegill@btinternet.com says...
Hi GHO. I'm good thanks - hope you are too. I've been hanging out in the
abortion newsgroups for the last year or so, but I still lurk in alt.atheism
from time to time (just to make sure that you aren't behaving yourself). ;)
I'm only back posting here after a couple of year's break. Liquid Grace
says "Hi hi hi!" and will jump on shortly to chat. We've got our second
wedding anniversary on the 11th (I have to get her a pressie yet).
Things have been very good here, and life is treating us quite well.
How's yourself? How did you manage to stay sane in the abortion groups??
Do you still have the Oven of DDDDDDDOOOOOOOOMMMM??
Cheers & hugs,
TGHO
--
The Great Hairy One,
BAAWA all night long
SMASHing it to the masses
====================================
CEO EAC Roleplaying Division
Roleplay. Just do it.
.
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| User: "junegill" |
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| Title: Re: Forcing babies to have babies is now Jeb Bush's policy |
09 May 2005 11:06:59 PM |
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"The Great Hairy One" <the.great.hairy@GEEmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ce9f04edd27eb74989920@freenews.iinet.net.au...
In article <d5mchj$3v2$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
junegill@btinternet.com says...
Hi GHO. I'm good thanks - hope you are too. I've been hanging out in
the
abortion newsgroups for the last year or so, but I still lurk in
alt.atheism
from time to time (just to make sure that you aren't behaving yourself).
;)
I'm only back posting here after a couple of year's break. Liquid Grace
says "Hi hi hi!" and will jump on shortly to chat. We've got our second
wedding anniversary on the 11th (I have to get her a pressie yet).
You and LG got married? That's wonderful - the last time I was in touch
with either of you, LG was planning her trip down under. I'm so glad that
things worked out well for you both. (Big hug)
Things have been very good here, and life is treating us quite well.
How's yourself? How did you manage to stay sane in the abortion groups??
Heh - it can try one's patience at times.
Do you still have the Oven of DDDDDDDOOOOOOOOMMMM??
The oven? Hmm, I think you'll have to visit me to find out ... if you dare!
:)
--
June G
# 364
http://uk.geocities.com/junegill@btopenworld.com/webpages/index.html.html
.
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| User: "The Great Hairy One" |
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| Title: Re: Forcing babies to have babies is now Jeb Bush's policy |
10 May 2005 07:19:23 AM |
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In article <d5pc12$6mg$2@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
junegill@btinternet.com says...
You and LG got married? That's wonderful - the last time I was in touch
with either of you, LG was planning her trip down under. I'm so glad that
things worked out well for you both. (Big hug)
Things are going very well! We're having a lot of fun, and greatly enjoy
each other's company. Although we'd like to get LG's son out here as
well.
The oven? Hmm, I think you'll have to visit me to find out ... if you dare!
:)
We'd love to visit! We are planning on coming to the US in 2006, maybe
we can come to the UK in 2008 or so. Although you'd have to put up with
the both of us.
Great to see you still around!
Cheers,
TGHO
--
The Great Hairy One,
BAAWA all night long
SMASHing it to the masses
====================================
CEO EAC Roleplaying Division
Roleplay. Just do it.
.
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| User: "Michael Calwell" |
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| Title: Re: Forcing babies to have babies is now Jeb Bush's policy |
09 May 2005 06:31:52 AM |
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The Great Hairy One wrote:
How did you manage to stay sane in the abortion groups??
Good question. We have people in here who believe that human beings
don't exist before they're born, that sex does not result in pregnancy,
and that people have "right" to conceive someone only to destroy them.
It really is a virtual lunatic asylum.
.
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| User: "The Great Hairy One" |
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| Title: Re: Forcing babies to have babies is now Jeb Bush's policy |
09 May 2005 04:13:27 PM |
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In article <427f4f70$0$2591$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk>,
michael.calwell@btopenworld.com says...
Good question. We have people in here who believe that human beings
don't exist before they're born, that sex does not result in pregnancy,
and that people have "right" to conceive someone only to destroy them.
It really is a virtual lunatic asylum.
I'm not going to argue with you, Michael. I don't want to discuss
abortion. As far as I am concerned, it is the woman who makes the
choice. You're a man. Until you get a womb, stay out of the discussion.
Cheers,
TGHO
--
The Great Hairy One,
BAAWA all night long
SMASHing it to the masses
====================================
CEO EAC Roleplaying Division
Roleplay. Just do it.
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Forcing babies to have babies is now Jeb Bush's policy |
09 May 2005 10:15:06 PM |
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Michael Calwell <michael.calwell@btopenworld.com> wrote:
The Great Hairy One wrote:
How did you manage to stay sane in the abortion groups??
Good question. We have people in here who believe that human beings
don't exist before they're born, that sex does not result in pregnancy,
and that people have "right" to conceive someone only to destroy them.
And we have people like you who thinks that women may be treated like
animals.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Forcing babies to have babies is now Jeb Bush's policy |
10 May 2005 09:08:08 AM |
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On Tue, 10 May 2005 03:15:06 GMT, (Ray
Fischer) wrote:
Michael Calwell <michael.calwell@btopenworld.com> wrote:
The Great Hairy One wrote:
How did you manage to stay sane in the abortion groups??
Good question. We have people in here who believe that human beings
don't exist before they're born, that sex does not result in pregnancy,
and that people have "right" to conceive someone only to destroy them.
And we have people like you who thinks that women may be treated like
animals.
Disagree. Animals are treated better.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Forcing babies to have babies is now Jeb Bush's policy |
10 May 2005 09:07:39 AM |
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On Mon, 09 May 2005 12:31:52 +0100, Michael Calwell
<michael.calwell@btopenworld.com> wrote:
The Great Hairy One wrote:
How did you manage to stay sane in the abortion groups??
Good question. We have people in here who believe that human beings
don't exist before they're born, that sex does not result in pregnancy,
and that people have "right" to conceive someone only to destroy them.
It really is a virtual lunatic asylum.
Yes, you are a cowardly, lying, ignorant sack of christian dog *****.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
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| User: "Michael Calwell" |
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| Title: Re: Forcing babies to have babies is now Jeb Bush's policy |
10 May 2005 09:06:37 AM |
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stoney wrote:
On Mon, 09 May 2005 12:31:52 +0100, Michael Calwell
<michael.calwell@btopenworld.com> wrote:
The Great Hairy One wrote:
How did you manage to stay sane in the abortion groups??
Good question. We have people in here who believe that human beings
don't exist before they're born, that sex does not result in pregnancy,
and that people have "right" to conceive someone only to destroy them.
It really is a virtual lunatic asylum.
Yes, you are a cowardly, lying, ignorant sack of christian dog *****.
Your mother must be proud.
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Forcing babies to have babies is now Jeb Bush's policy |
10 May 2005 12:23:29 PM |
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Michael Calwell <michael.calwell@btopenworld.com> wrote:
stoney wrote:
On Mon, 09 May 2005 12:31:52 +0100, Michael Calwell
<michael.calwell@btopenworld.com> wrote:
The Great Hairy One wrote:
How did you manage to stay sane in the abortion groups??
Good question. We have people in here who believe that human beings
don't exist before they're born, that sex does not result in pregnancy,
and that people have "right" to conceive someone only to destroy them.
It really is a virtual lunatic asylum.
Yes, you are a cowardly, lying, ignorant sack of christian dog *****.
Your mother must be proud.
Not as proud as yours, given that you'd make her a slave and force her
to suffer and even die for your selfish wants.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Forcing babies to have babies is now Jeb Bush's policy |
12 May 2005 10:49:00 AM |
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On Tue, 10 May 2005 15:06:37 +0100, Michael Calwell
<michael.calwell@btopenworld.com> wrote:
stoney wrote:
On Mon, 09 May 2005 12:31:52 +0100, Michael Calwell
<michael.calwell@btopenworld.com> wrote:
The Great Hairy One wrote:
How did you manage to stay sane in the abortion groups??
Good question. We have people in here who believe that human beings
don't exist before they're born, that sex does not result in pregnancy,
and that people have "right" to conceive someone only to destroy them.
It really is a virtual lunatic asylum.
Yes, you are a cowardly, lying, ignorant sack of christian dog *****.
Your mother must be proud.
Thank you for agreeing with my point oh cowardly, lying, ignorant sack
of christian dog *****.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
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| User: "Michael Calwell" |
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| Title: Re: Forcing babies to have babies is now Jeb Bush's policy |
12 May 2005 10:40:20 AM |
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stoney wrote:
On Tue, 10 May 2005 15:06:37 +0100, Michael Calwell
<michael.calwell@btopenworld.com> wrote:
stoney wrote:
On Mon, 09 May 2005 12:31:52 +0100, Michael Calwell
<michael.calwell@btopenworld.com> wrote:
The Great Hairy One wrote:
How did you manage to stay sane in the abortion groups??
Good question. We have people in here who believe that human beings
don't exist before they're born, that sex does not result in pregnancy,
and that people have "right" to conceive someone only to destroy them.
It really is a virtual lunatic asylum.
Yes, you are a cowardly, lying, ignorant sack of christian dog *****.
Your mother must be proud.
Thank you for agreeing with my point oh cowardly, lying, ignorant sack
of christian dog *****.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8917158&dopt=Abstract
"The association of antisocial personality symptoms with marijuana
abuse/dependence. A monozygotic co-twin control study."
Among randomly selected individuals from each twin pair, 8 of 10 anti
social personality symptoms were significantly more prevalent in persons
with a lifetime history of marijuana abuse/dependence compared with
those who had never abused any drug.
.
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| User: "Andrew Louden" |
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| Title: Re: Forcing babies to have babies is now Jeb Bush's policy |
12 May 2005 03:44:44 PM |
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On Thu, 12 May 2005 16:40:20 +0100, Michael Calwell
<michael.calwell@btopenworld.com> wrote:
stoney wrote:
On Tue, 10 May 2005 15:06:37 +0100, Michael Calwell
<michael.calwell@btopenworld.com> wrote:
stoney wrote:
On Mon, 09 May 2005 12:31:52 +0100, Michael Calwell
<michael.calwell@btopenworld.com> wrote:
The Great Hairy One wrote:
How did you manage to stay sane in the abortion groups??
Good question. We have people in here who believe that human beings
don't exist before they're born, that sex does not result in pregnancy,
and that people have "right" to conceive someone only to destroy them.
It really is a virtual lunatic asylum.
Yes, you are a cowardly, lying, ignorant sack of christian dog *****.
Your mother must be proud.
Thank you for agreeing with my point oh cowardly, lying, ignorant sack
of christian dog *****.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8917158&dopt=Abstract
"The association of antisocial personality symptoms with marijuana
abuse/dependence. A monozygotic co-twin control study."
Among randomly selected individuals from each twin pair, 8 of 10 anti
social personality symptoms were significantly more prevalent in persons
with a lifetime history of marijuana abuse/dependence compared with
those who had never abused any drug.
Oooo, more government propaganda
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Forcing babies to have babies is now Jeb Bush's policy |
14 May 2005 10:23:23 AM |
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On Thu, 12 May 2005 20:44:44 GMT, Andrew Louden <amlouden@google.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 12 May 2005 16:40:20 +0100, Michael Calwell
<michael.calwell@btopenworld.com> wrote:
stoney wrote:
On Tue, 10 May 2005 15:06:37 +0100, Michael Calwell
<michael.calwell@btopenworld.com> wrote:
stoney wrote:
On Mon, 09 May 2005 12:31:52 +0100, Michael Calwell
<michael.calwell@btopenworld.com> wrote:
The Great Hairy One wrote:
How did you manage to stay sane in the abortion groups??
Good question. We have people in here who believe that human beings
don't exist before they're born, that sex does not result in pregnancy,
and that people have "right" to conceive someone only to destroy them.
It really is a virtual lunatic asylum.
Yes, you are a cowardly, lying, ignorant sack of christian dog *****.
Your mother must be proud.
Thank you for agreeing with my point oh cowardly, lying, ignorant sack
of christian dog *****.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8917158&dopt=Abstract
"The association of antisocial personality symptoms with marijuana
abuse/dependence. A monozygotic co-twin control study."
Among randomly selected individuals from each twin pair, 8 of 10 anti
social personality symptoms were significantly more prevalent in persons
with a lifetime history of marijuana abuse/dependence compared with
those who had never abused any drug.
Oooo, more government propaganda
Of course, and projection from Michael?
OOOO....(eyes gleam)
The association of antisocial personality symptoms with superstition
abuse/dependence. A monozyotic co-twin control study.
Among randomly selected individuals from each twin pair, 8 of 10
antisocial personality symptoms were significantly more prevalent in
persons with a lifetime of superstition abuse/dependence compared with
those who were never inflicted with superstition as a child.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Forcing babies to have babies is now Jeb Bush's policy |
14 May 2005 10:19:37 AM |
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On Thu, 12 May 2005 16:40:20 +0100, Michael Calwell
<michael.calwell@btopenworld.com> wrote:
stoney wrote:
On Tue, 10 May 2005 15:06:37 +0100, Michael Calwell
<michael.calwell@btopenworld.com> wrote:
stoney wrote:
On Mon, 09 May 2005 12:31:52 +0100, Michael Calwell
<michael.calwell@btopenworld.com> wrote:
The Great Hairy One wrote:
How did you manage to stay sane in the abortion groups??
Good question. We have people in here who believe that human beings
don't exist before they're born, that sex does not result in pregnancy,
and that people have "right" to conceive someone only to destroy them.
It really is a virtual lunatic asylum.
Yes, you are a cowardly, lying, ignorant sack of christian dog *****.
Your mother must be proud.
Thank you for agreeing with my point oh cowardly, lying, ignorant sack
of christian dog *****.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8917158&dopt=Abstract
"The association of antisocial personality symptoms with marijuana
abuse/dependence. A monozygotic co-twin control study."
Among randomly selected individuals from each twin pair, 8 of 10 anti
social personality symptoms were significantly more prevalent in persons
with a lifetime history of marijuana abuse/dependence compared with
those who had never abused any drug.
As usual, Michael, fouls his panties running away from points he dare
not address and he projects his antisocial tendencies onto others.
Your capitulation is noted. Now as to your other idiocy...
Damn, Michael, I was fully aware you were the epitome of stupidity,
but you've really outdone yourself. BRAVO!!!!! You've really made an
***** out of yourself. Well done, lad! Free clue, oh putrid wanker,
I've zero interest in marijuana, cocaine, and the rest of the rubbish.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
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| User: "Glenn Arnold" |
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| Title: Re: Forcing babies to have babies is now Jeb Bush's policy |
09 May 2005 07:37:01 PM |
|
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junegill wrote:
"The Great Hairy One" <the.great.hairy@GEEmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ce931ffe556dfb1989917@freenews.iinet.net.au...
In article <d5k6ot$pn7$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
junegill@btinternet.com says...
Hi Liz. You and I both know what labour pains are like: if someone were
to
inflict even one such pain on a child in any circumstances other than
childbirth, would they not be prosecuted for child abuse? Multiply that
pain by several hundreds or even a thousand and surely the perpetrator
would
face a long jail sentence. I think forcing a child to give birth is
child
abuse of the grossest kind.
Heya June! Long time no see. How are you doing?
Hi GHO. I'm good thanks - hope you are too. I've been hanging out in the
abortion newsgroups for the last year or so, but I still lurk in alt.atheism
from time to time (just to make sure that you aren't behaving yourself). ;)
--
June G
Hey June! Coming across the pond anytime soon? We have room for you.
Glenn Arnold
.
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| User: "Liz" |
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| Title: Re: Forcing babies to have babies is now Jeb Bush's policy |
08 May 2005 06:40:47 AM |
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On Sun, 8 May 2005 05:06:38 +0000 (UTC), "junegill"
<junegill@btinternet.com> in news message
<d5k6ot$pn7$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> wrote:
"Liz" <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message
news:q9ta719sopc06jvikqqud0tnrj49i8jmk3@4ax.com...
On Sun, 1 May 2005 20:13:23 -0400, "Tom" <Tom@yahoo.com> in news
message <Hcede.150616$vK6.136870@bignews3.bellsouth.net> wrote:
"MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote in message
news:1114962759.003716.174220@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Miami Herald
May 1, 2005
I guess Bush forced her to have sex so she can be forced to have her
baby.
Do you think that forcing a 13 year old to give birth against her
wishes is an acceptable punishment for her having sex?
Hi Liz. You and I both know what labour pains are like: if someone were to
inflict even one such pain on a child in any circumstances other than
childbirth, would they not be prosecuted for child abuse? Multiply that
pain by several hundreds or even a thousand and surely the perpetrator would
face a long jail sentence. I think forcing a child to give birth is child
abuse of the grossest kind.
I haven't seen your electrons in a long time, June. Hope you are
well. I see you are still kicking.
I run into too many self righteous people who are quite willing to
punish those who have sex outside of their approved parameters. One
of those suggested punishments, astoundingly enough, is to force the
female to give birth and raise a child "to teach her the consequences
of having sex outside of a GodŽblessed marriage" and "to teach her
responsibility".
Of course it would be child abuse in this case, but that doesn't seem
to bother those who make these suggestions.
Liz #658 BAAWA
4th Law: Most people cannot imagine a god morally superior
to themselves; if you want to know what such a person would
do if they had ultimate power, ask them about their deity.
-- Abner Mintz
.
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| User: "junegill" |
|
| Title: Re: Forcing babies to have babies is now Jeb Bush's policy |
08 May 2005 07:50:44 PM |
|
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"Liz" <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message
news:92ur71530jsm5g1cg03990u49aho41hjep@4ax.com...
On Sun, 8 May 2005 05:06:38 +0000 (UTC), "junegill"
<junegill@btinternet.com> in news message
<d5k6ot$pn7$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> wrote:
"Liz" <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message
news:q9ta719sopc06jvikqqud0tnrj49i8jmk3@4ax.com...
On Sun, 1 May 2005 20:13:23 -0400, "Tom" <Tom@yahoo.com> in news
message <Hcede.150616$vK6.136870@bignews3.bellsouth.net> wrote:
"MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote in message
news:1114962759.003716.174220@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Miami Herald
May 1, 2005
I guess Bush forced her to have sex so she can be forced to have her
baby.
Do you think that forcing a 13 year old to give birth against her
wishes is an acceptable punishment for her having sex?
Hi Liz. You and I both know what labour pains are like: if someone were
to
inflict even one such pain on a child in any circumstances other than
childbirth, would they not be prosecuted for child abuse? Multiply that
pain by several hundreds or even a thousand and surely the perpetrator
would
face a long jail sentence. I think forcing a child to give birth is
child
abuse of the grossest kind.
I haven't seen your electrons in a long time, June. Hope you are
well. I see you are still kicking.
Heh. Yes, still alive and kicking.
I run into too many self righteous people who are quite willing to
punish those who have sex outside of their approved parameters. One
of those suggested punishments, astoundingly enough, is to force the
female to give birth and raise a child "to teach her the consequences
of having sex outside of a GodŽblessed marriage" and "to teach her
responsibility".
It would be delicious if we were allowed to inflict the same amount of pain
on such people as every woman giving birth has to go through ... every time
they pontificated about sex and responsibility - I think they'd become
pro-choice at the speed of light.
Of course it would be child abuse in this case, but that doesn't seem
to bother those who make these suggestions.
Right - they aren't the ones who have to suffer it.
--
June G
# 364
http://uk.geocities.com/junegill@btopenworld.com/webpages/index.html.html
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Forcing babies to have babies is now Jeb Bush's policy |
07 May 2005 08:46:27 PM |
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On Mon, 02 May 2005 00:40:50 GMT, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:
On Sun, 1 May 2005 20:13:23 -0400, "Tom" <Tom@yahoo.com> in news
message <Hcede.150616$vK6.136870@bignews3.bellsouth.net> wrote:
"MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote in message
news:1114962759.003716.174220@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Miami Herald
May 1, 2005
I guess Bush forced her to have sex so she can be forced to have her baby.
Do you think that forcing a 13 year old to give birth against her
wishes is an acceptable punishment for her having sex?
Liz you asked the lamer to do something it isn't capable of
doing-think.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
|
|
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| User: "Liz" |
|
| Title: Re: Forcing babies to have babies is now Jeb Bush's policy |
07 May 2005 08:57:08 PM |
|
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On Sat, 07 May 2005 18:46:27 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> in news
message <0qrq71h599qugfcj6gqlgaetgrhpcf263b@4ax.com> wrote:
On Mon, 02 May 2005 00:40:50 GMT, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:
On Sun, 1 May 2005 20:13:23 -0400, "Tom" <Tom@yahoo.com> in news
message <Hcede.150616$vK6.136870@bignews3.bellsouth.net> wrote:
"MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote in message
news:1114962759.003716.174220@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Miami Herald
May 1, 2005
I guess Bush forced her to have sex so she can be forced to have her baby.
Do you think that forcing a 13 year old to give birth against her
wishes is an acceptable punishment for her having sex?
Liz you asked the lamer to do something it isn't capable of
doing-think.
It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it.
Liz #658 BAAWA
It's an incredible con job when you think about it, to
believe in something now in exchange for something after
death. Even corporations with their reward systems don't
try to make it posthumous. -- Gloria Steinem
.
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| User: "Kate " |
|
| Title: Re: Forcing babies to have babies is now Jeb Bush's policy |
02 May 2005 09:49:01 AM |
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On Sun, 1 May 2005 20:13:23 -0400, "Tom" <Tom@yahoo.com> wrote:
"MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote in message
news:1114962759.003716.174220@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Miami Herald
May 1, 2005
I guess Bush forced her to have sex so she can be forced to have her baby.
No 13 year old willingly has sex. By definition, it's rape no matter
how many times she says yes.
Apparently you believe that victims are responsible for what happens
to them. I hope you lock up your house at night, or one of your
children may get what's coming to them.
.
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| User: "Michael Calwell" |
|
| Title: Re: Forcing babies to have babies is now Jeb Bush's policy |
01 May 2005 11:11:15 AM |
|
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MrPepper11 wrote:
Miami Herald
May 1, 2005
DCF policy: Forcing babies to have babies
CARL HIAASEN
It's called the precautionary principle. The history of humanity and
even the humble animal kingdom would not point to having a baby being
likely to cause irreparable or profound psychological and emotional
trauma, even in the very young. Abortion, however, can have a
catastrophic effect on even the most "empowered" women, so only a state
driven by a lunatic fanaticism would permit a child to have an abortion.
But then maybe that's the state we're in.
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: Forcing babies to have babies is now Jeb Bush's policy |
01 May 2005 11:53:27 AM |
|
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Michael Calwell <michael@calwell-computing.co.uk> wrote:
MrPepper11 wrote:
Miami Herald
May 1, 2005
DCF policy: Forcing babies to have babies
CARL HIAASEN
It's called the precautionary principle. The history of humanity and
even the humble animal kingdom would not point to having a baby being
likely to cause irreparable or profound psychological and emotional
trauma, even in the very young.
STUDY REPORTS RISE IN CHILDBIRTH DEATHS
San Jose Mercury News (SJ) - Tuesday, June 11, 1996
By: New York Times
UNITED NATIONS In the first comprehensive survey in a decade to look at
maternal deaths worldwide, UNICEF reported Monday that about 585,000 women die
each year during pregnancy and childbirth, many needlessly.
Millions more, perhaps as many as 18 million women, suffer debilitating
illnesses or injuries that often disable them.
The figures are nearly one-fifth higher than previous estimates of about
500,000 deaths, according to the report by UNICEF, the United Nations Childrens
Fund, which compiled the new data with the World Health Organization and Johns
Hopkins University.
Much of the tragedy is preventable, the study says.
"For the most part, these are the deaths not of the ill, or the very old,
or the very young, but of healthy women in the prime of their lives," says the
report, the Progress of Nations 1996.
Data from the report indicate that one in 13 women in sub-Saharan Africa
and one in 35 in South Asia dies of causes related to pregnancy and childbirth,
according to UNICEF officials, compared with one in 3,200 in Europe, one in
3,300 in the United States, and one in 7,300 in Canada.
The survey faults the shortage of obstetric care in many nations. It calls
for the proper medical training of more midwives who would be better qualified
than traditional birth attendants to assist mothers before, during and after
delivery.
About 75,000 women die annually of botched abortions and another 75,000 of
brain and kidney damage in eclampsia, a disorder that can cause high blood
pressure and convulsions late in pregnancy. At least 100,000 die of blood
poisoning and 40,000 of obstructed labor.
The report on maternal risks, prepared under UNICEF's director, Carol
Bellamy, a former New York City Council president and director of the Peace
Corps who took over the agency last year, is notably stronger in its language
and imagery than many U.N. publications.
The new figures produced in the UNICEF report raised some questions among
experts, who say that getting accurate information on maternal mortality is
notoriously difficult. At Harvard University, Lincoln Chen, professor of
international health and head of the Center for Population and Development
Studies, said that the difference between 500,000 maternal deaths, the
previously accepted figure, and 585,000 or 600,000 may fall within a margin of
error, since all such numbers were "insecure."
More information at http://www.unicef.org/pon96/contents.htm
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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