Foundation of Christian Religion



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Bill"
Date: 13 Nov 2005 07:26:09 PM
Object: Foundation of Christian Religion
The foundation of the Christian and Hebrew religions are the Bibles. They
are a foundation of quick sand! Yet most followers believe they are the word
of their God.
The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in
existence. Why would God not protect the originals? What are available are
copies of copies by unknown men of questionable veracity biased by, and
dependent on, their membership in the clergy. The originals rotted and
disappeared thousands of years ago. The Bibles were hand written and
recopied more than a thousand years before the invention of the printing
press. And of course we not only do not know what was in the originals but
they were also written by errant biased men motivated to impress their
flock.
If Jesus was God, why did he not leave behind his recorded record of his
rules and commands? Why are there NO Biblical documents written during his
time on earth? The Old Testaments were written before his birth. The New
Testaments were written 60 and more years after his death and there is NO
objective verifiable evidence as to their authenticity and veracity.
The Bibles contain both historical and scientific errors. They contain
manifest absurdities, unfulfilled prophesies, immoralities, indecencies,
obscenities, atrocities, barbarities, myths, folklore and legends. They are
nothing more than hearsay, myths and implausible tales.
Here is just a small sampling of implausible Bible stories.
The story of creation
A totally illogical Biblical story is the story of creation. It is obviously
pure fiction
Biblically, god created the world 5,000 to 10,000 years ago. Scientific
evidence indicates the Universe, as we now know it, began more than 14
BILLION years ago or more.
In the Bible, the Universe is a firmament and the Earth is a fixed (not to
mention flat) Planet and the Son, Moon and other planets revolve around the
earth. We now KNOW the Earth revolves around the Son and the Universe is
over 20 BILLION light years in diameter and is made up of trillions of Stars
and Planets of which our planetary system is a very miniscule and
unimportant part.
In the Bible the earth is created in the first day, before the Son, Moon and
Stars. Objective scientific evidence is that the Earth did not form until
approximately 10 BILLION YEARS after the beginning of the present Universe
and after the formation of the Son, and many other stars.
The Creation of the World
Genesis
In the beginning of creation, when God made heaven and earth, the earth was
without form and void, with darkness over the face of the abyss, and a
mighty wind that swept over the surface of the waters. God said, Let there
be light, and there was light; and God saw that the light was good, and he
separated light from darkness. He called the light day, and the darkness
night. So evening came, and morning came, the first day. God created light
before he created the Sun and the Moon!
The Son is known to have existed long before the Earth; therefore the earth
was not created before the Son. It is equally obvious that the writers of
that time thought the World was the center the firmament and that they had
no conception of the size and nature of the Universe. Everything beyond the
Sun and Moon was considered to be gods Heaven
God said, Let there be a vault between the waters, to separate water from
water. So God made the vault, and separated the water under the vault from
the water above it, and so it was; and God called the vault heaven. Evening
came, and morning came, a second day.
God said; Let the waters under heaven be gathered into one place, so that
dry land may appear; and so it was. God called the dry land earth, and the
gathering of the waters he called seas; and God saw that it was good. Then
God said, Let the earth produce fresh growth, let there be on the earth
plants bearing seed, fruit-trees bearing fruit each with seed according to
its kind. So it was; the earth yielded fresh growth, plants bearing seed
according to their kind and trees bearing fruit each with seed according to
its king; and God saw that it was good. Evening came, and morning came, a
third day.
And this good and loving God created animals that eat other animals (and
man) and poisonous plants and snakes that kill!
God said, Let there be lights in the vault of heaven to separate day from
night, and let them serve as signs both for festivals and for seasons and
years. Let them also shine in the vault of heaven to give light on earth. So
it was; God made the two great lights, the greater to govern the day and the
lesser to govern the night; and with them he made the stars. God put these
lights in the vault of heaven to give light on earth, to govern day and
night, and to separate light from darkness; and God saw that it was good.
Evening came, and morning came, a fourth day.
Ancient man erroneously thought the stars beyond the Sun and Moon to be
Heaven. The Moon was not considered a reflection from the light of the Sun
but a lesser light.
God, said, Let the waters teem with countless living creatures, and let
birds fly above the earth across the vault of heaven. god then created the
great sea-monsters and all living creatures that move and swarm in the
waters, according to their kind, and every kind of bird; and God saw that it
was good. So he blessed them and said, be fruitful and increase, fill the
waters of the seas; and let the birds increase on land. Evening came, and
morning came, a fifth day.
And this all loving God created creatures of the that kill and eat other
creatures including man.
God said, let the earth bring forth living creatures, according to their
kind: cattle, reptiles, and wild animals, all according to their kind. So it
was; God made wild animals, cattle, and all reptiles, each according to its
kind; and he saw that it was good. Then God said, Let us make man it our
image and likeness to rule the fish in the sea , the birds of heaven, the
cattle, all wild animals on earth, and all reptiles that crawl upon the
earth. So God created man in his own image; in the image of God he created
him; male and female he created them. God blessed them and said to them, be
fruitful and increase, fill the earth and subdue it, rule over the fish in
the sea, the birds of heaven, and every living thing that moves upon the
earth. God also said, I give you all plants that bear seed everywhere on
earth, and every tree bearing fruit which yields seed: they shall be yours
for food. All green plants I give for food to the wild animals, to all the
birds of heaven, and to all reptiles on earth, every living creature. So it
was; and God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. Evening came,
and morning came, a sixth day.
And God created animals that need to kill and eat other animals including
man in order to survive. This is a loving and caring God?
Thus heaven and earth were completed with all their mighty throng. On the
sixth day God completed all the work he had been doing, and on the seventh
day he ceased from all his work. God blessed the seventh day and made it
holy, because on that day he ceased from all the work he had set himself to
do and rested.
Why would a God that is not physical but spiritual, get tired and need rest?
If this creator is such a loving and caring guy, why does he permit totally
innocent children to die at birth? Or worse, be born lacking eyesight, a
fully developed brain, deaf and dumb, missing limbs etc.?
Why are some born idiots and others with super intelligence?
Why does this loving and caring god create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes,
Volcanic Eruptions, Wars, cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases and
serious body malfunctions that effect people indiscriminately regardless of
their conduct or religious beliefs? Why does he permit millions of both
young and old to starve to death?
These afflict humans indiscriminately - young and old, atheists and members
of all religious beliefs.
Why did he design humans to suffer the decrepitude and malignancies of old
age? Even those that devote their lives to religious leadership suffer these
punishments of old age.
Why did this caring benevolent god create animals that need to eat other
animals to survive?
If there is a god that created the Universe, he is obviously not an
all-caring and benevolent god. The objective evidence is that, if there is a
god creator, he has no concern about the welfare of the creatures on Earth.
Adam and Eve
In the Bible, there are two different accounts of Adam and Eve's creation.
According to the Priestly (P) history of the 5th or 6th century BC (Genesis
1:1-2:4), God on the sixth day of Creation created all the living creatures
and, "in his own image," man both "male and female." God then blessed the
couple, told them to be "fruitful and multiply," and gave them dominion over
all other living things.
According to the lengthier Yahwist (J) narrative of the 10th century BC
(Genesis 2:5-7, 2:15-4:1, 4:25), God, or Yahweh, created Adam at a time when
the earth was still void, forming him from the earth's dust and breathing
"into his nostrils the breath of life." God then gave Adam the primeval
Garden of Eden to tend but, on penalty of death, commanded him not to eat of
the fruit of the "tree of knowledge of good and evil." Subsequently, so that
Adam would not be alone, God created other animals but, finding these
insufficient, put Adam to sleep, took from him a rib, and created a new
companion, Eve. The two were persons of innocence until Eve yielded to the
temptations of the evil serpent and Adam joined her in eating the forbidden
fruit, whereupon they both recognized their nakedness and donned fig leaves
as garments. Immediately, God recognized their transgression and proclaimed
their punishments-for the woman, pain in childbirth and subordination to
man, and, for the man, relegation to an accursed ground with which he must
toil and sweat for his subsistence. Adam died at the age of 930!
In later Christian theology, the concept of original sin (q.v.) took hold-a
sin in which human kind has been held captive since the fall of Adam and
Eve. The doctrine was based on Pauline Scripture but has not been accepted
by a number of Christian sects and interpreters. Why should BILLIONS of
innocent people be punished over thousands of years for this original sin
that they had no part in?
This is both sadistic and ridiculous!
Jonah
As the story is related in the Book of Jonah, the prophet Jonah is called by
God to go to Nineveh (a great Assyrian city) and prophesy disaster because
of the city's wickedness. Jonah, in the story, feels about Nineveh as does
the author of the Book of Nahum-that the city must inevitably be destroyed
because of God's judgment against it. Thus Jonah does not want to prophesy,
because Nineveh might repent and thereby be saved. So he rushes down to
Joppa and takes passage in a ship that will carry him in the opposite
direction, thinking to escape God.
A storm of unprecedented severity strikes the ship, and it shows signs of
breaking up and foundering. Jonah confesses that it is his presence on board
that is causing the storm. At his request, he is thrown overboard, and the
storm subsides.
A "great fish," appointed by God, swallows Jonah, and he stays within the
fish's maw for three days and nights. He prays for deliverance and is
"vomited out" on dry land (ch. 2).
Totally implausible. He would have been digested by the fish in those three
days!
Sodom and Gomorrah
According to the Bible these cities and everyone in them, except Lot and his
family, were destroyed by fire and brimstone for their sinfulness. Lot's
wife was turned into a pillar of salt for disobeying God's command to not
look back at her city of birth being destroyed.
There is no way that EVERYONE in two cities could be so sinful, especially
innocent children, to deserve destruction by fire and brimstone.
Sodom and Gomorrah constituted, along with the cities of Admah, Zeboiim, and
Zoar (Bela), the five biblical "cities of the plain." Destroyed by"brimstone
and fire" because of their wickedness (Genesis 19:24).
Sodom and Gomorrah probably were devastated about 1900 BC by an earthquake
in the Dead Sea area of the Great Rift Valley, an extensive rift extending
from the Jordan River valley in Israel to the Zambezi River system in East
Africa. When the catastrophic destruction occurred, the petroleum and gases
existing in the area probably contributed to the imagery of "brimstone and
fire"
Cruel, inhumane and pure nonsense!
The Tower of Babel
Genesis 11.1 - 11.9
God became concerned that the Tower being built would reach his heaven.
He confounded the builders by giving them different languages so they could
no longer communicate with each other to continue the construction.
Why would this be of any concern to an all powerful God creator and wouldn't
this God creator realize that no tower could possibly reach his spiritual
heaven?
Noah and the Ark
The Bible is claimed to be the inerrant word of God
The story of Noah and the flood is only one of many ridiculous biblical
tales with no authentication or plausibility of any kind. It is an
impossible story.
1. The largest boat ever built to this day could not even come CLOSE to
housing Noah, his sons, wives and two of every type of animal on earth. And
this was a boat built of wood many thousands of years ago. There are 1.7
million KNOWN species of animals on this planet. This story is patently
impossible, using only materials and tools available to Noah, to build an
arch large enough to hold all these creatures, together with suitable
environments for each of them to live in, keeping them all separated so they
don't kill and eat each other. And then provide room and an environment for
many hundreds of millions of known species of insects, plants, molds etc. on
this planet?
2. Where did they house all of the new born during this ten month
escapade?
3. In addition, the ship would have to carry a TEN MONTHS supply of food
and fresh water for the people and thousands of animals for them to survive.
What would the carnivores have eaten? Whatever prey they ate would have gone
extinct. How did they dispose of the thousands of tons of feces? It must
have been one stinking ship!
4. Now according to the Bible the earth was flooded for ten months. This
would kill off all the vegetation. What did the animals eat for an
additional year or more after the flood subsided?
5. Noah sends a dove out to see if there was any dry land. But the dove
returns without finding any. Then, just seven days later, the dove goes out
again and returns with an olive leaf. But how could an olive tree survive
the flood? And if any seeds happened to survive, they certainly wouldn't
germinate and grow leaves within a seven day period. 8:8-11.
6. And according to this myth, Noah was also over 600 years old!
This is a grossly implausible tale that ranks as a greater tale than Santa
Claus, The Wizard of Oz, The Easter Bunny and The Tooth Fairy!
Genesis 6:6
6 The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was
filled with pain.
7 So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face
of the earth: men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and
birds of the air-for I am grieved that I have made them."
9 Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he
walked with God.
Genesis 7
1 The LORD then said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family,
because I have found you righteous in this generation. 2 Take with you seven
[a] of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of every
kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven of every kind
of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the
earth. 4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days
and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living
creature I have made."
6 Noah was six hundred years old when the floodwaters came on the earth. 7
And Noah and his sons and his wife and his sons' wives entered the ark to
escape the waters of the flood. 8 Pairs of clean and unclean animals, of
birds and of all creatures that move along the ground, 9 male and female,
came to Noah and entered the ark, as God had commanded Noah. 10 And after
the seven days the floodwaters came on the earth.
This is patently ridiculous and impossible. How could they capture and load
over three million animals in a period of seven days???
11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the
second month-on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and
the floodgates of the heavens were opened. 12 And rain fell on the earth
forty days and forty nights.
13 On that very day Noah and his sons, Shem, Ham and Japheth, together with
his wife and the wives of his three sons, entered the ark. 14 They had with
them every wild animal according to its kind, all livestock according to
their kinds, every creature that moves along the ground according to its
kind and every bird according to its kind, everything with wings. 15 Pairs
of all creatures that have the breath of life in them came to Noah and
entered the ark. 16 The animals going in were male and female of every
living thing, as God had commanded Noah. Then the LORD shut him in.
17 For forty days the flood kept coming on the earth, and as the waters
increased they lifted the ark high above the earth. 18 The waters rose and
increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the surface of the
water. 19 They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under
the entire heavens were covered. 20 The waters rose and covered the
mountains to a depth of more than twenty feet. [, 21 Every living thing that
moved on the earth perished-birds, livestock, wild animals, all the
creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. 22 Everything on dry
land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23 Every living thing
on the face of the earth was wiped out; men and animals and the creatures
that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the
earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.
24 The waters flooded the earth for a hundred and fifty days.
This of course would have also killed all the vegetation on Earth!
Genesis 7:6 (New International Version)
6 Noah was "six hundred" years old when the floodwaters came on the earth.
7 And Noah and his sons and his wife and his sons' wives entered the ark to
escape the waters of the flood
Genesis 8
1 But God remembered Noah and all the wild animals and the livestock that
were with him in the ark, and he sent a wind over the earth, and the waters
receded.
3 The water receded steadily from the earth. At the end of the hundred and
fifty days the water had gone down,
4 and on the seventeenth day of the seventh month the ark came to rest on
the mountains of Ararat.
5 The waters continued to recede until the tenth month, and on the first day
of the tenth month the tops of the mountains became visible
And what did they eat until all the vegetation recovered from the flood???
Genesis 9 God's Covenant with Noah
1 Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, "Be fruitful and
increase in number and fill the earth.
2 The fear and dread of you will fall upon all the beasts of the earth and
all the birds of the air, upon every creature that moves along the ground,
and upon all the fish of the sea; they are given into your hands.
3 Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you
the green plants, I now give you everything.
4 "But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it.
5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand
an accounting from every animal. And from each man, too, I will demand an
accounting for the life of his fellow man.
Before man learned how to create a fire, he had no choice but to eat raw
meat!
Samson
Hebrew Shimshon, Israelite hero portrayed in an epic narrative in the Old
Testament (Judg. 13-16). He was a Nazirite (q.v.) and a legendary warrior
whose incredible exploits hint at the weight of Philistine pressure on
Israel during much of the early, tribal period of Israel in Canaan
(1200-1000).
Samson was claimed to possess extraordinary physical strength, and the moral
of his saga relates the disastrous loss of his power to the violation of his
Nazirite vow. Credited with remarkable exploits-e.g., the slaying of a lion
and moving the gates of Gaza-he first broke his religious promises by
feasting with a woman from the neighboring town of Timnah, who was also a
Philistine, one of Israel's mortal enemies. Other remarkable deeds follow;
e.g., his decimating the Philistines in a private war. On another occasion
he repulsed their assault on him at Gaza, where he had gone to visit a
harlot. He finally fell victim to his foes through love of Delilah, a woman
of the valley of Sorek, who beguiled him into revealing the secret of his
strength: his long Nazirite hair. As he slept, Delilah had his hair cut and
betrayed him. He was captured, blinded, and enslaved by the Philistines, but
in the end he was granted his revenge; through the return of his old
strength, he supposedly demolished the great Philistine temple of the god
Dagon, at Gaza, destroying his captors and himself (Judg.16:4-30).
A truly implausible tale!
God created a three level Universe - Heaven above, a flat World resting on
water. Genesis 1:6-10; 7:11; 8:2; 11:11-9; 19:24; 28:12-13; Exodus 20:4;
Numbers 16:30-33; Deuteronomy 33:17.
God created the Sun and the Moon on the fourth day but created light on the
first day! Genesis1:1-9; 14-19
It is claimed that the Eve, first woman, was created from one of Adam's
ribs.
Genesis 3:1-5 Men and women have the same number of ribs on each side of
their body? And in any case why would a god that has created the Universe
and everything in it need to tale rib from Adam to create Eve???
The Bibles claim that a talking snake talked Eve into eating the forbidden
fruit.
The Bibles claim that Adam lived 930 years, Seth 912 years, Enosh 905 years,
Kenan910 years, Mahalael 895 years, Jared 962 years, Methuselah 969 years;
Lamech 777 years, and Noah 950 years. Genesis 5:-31; 9:29
God commanded that every baby boy at age of eight days be circumcised.
At that time sterilization (of knives) was unknown and many died of
infection for which they new no cure. Why did this almighty and all caring
God create baby boys with foreskins on their penis that he then required to
be painfully and dangerously removed?
This all caring and loving God sent ten horrible plagues upon the Egyptians
Exodus 7:14-12:32 and in his loving generosity gave Israel the land of the
Canaanites and the Israelites slaughtered every person of seven nations.
Twenty one million, men women and innocent children, were slaughtered
according to the Bible. Exodus 12:1-2
This is a loving god???
God in the Bibles classifies bats as birds when anyone with an elementary
knowledge of biology knows that bats are flying MAMMALS!
Letiviticus11:13, 19
This God can't control his temper resulting in killing thousands of people.
Numbers 11:31-35; 25:1-9
He and Moses ordered the Israelites to kill all the male and Female
Medianites who had ever had sex but to spare the young women who were
virgins and keep them for themselves to enjoy. Numbers 31:14-1
Jeremiah:16:1: The word of the LORD came also unto me, saying,
2: Thou shall not take thee a wife, neither shall thou have sons or
daughters in this place.
3: For thus saith the LORD concerning the sons and concerning the daughters
that are born in this place, and concerning their mothers that bare them,
and concerning their fathers that begat them in this land;
4: They shall die of grievous deaths; they shall not be lamented; neither
shall they be buried; but they shall be as dung upon the face of the earth:
and they shall be consumed by the sword, and by famine; and their carcasses
shall be meat for the fowls of heaven, and for the beasts of the earth.
5: For thus saith the LORD, Enter not into the house of mourning, neither go
to lament nor bemoan them: for I have taken away my peace from this people,
saith the LORD, even loving kindness and mercies.
======================================================
According to the unerring Bible, the earth is the oldest object in the
Universe. (Genesis 1:1), snakes can talk (Genesis 3:1-5), and Man had
dominion over the dinosaurs (Genesis 1:26, 28)."
Really??? The Earth did not come into existence until 10 BILLION years after
the Universe. Man came into existence MILLIONS of years AFTER the extinction
of the Dinosaurs.
======================================================
This is just a sampling of ridiculous Bible tales. The Bibles are obviously
a mixture of fiction, fables, folklore and pure nonsense.
And these Bibles were dictated by God??? Then this God must be a demented
idiot.
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.

User: ""

Title: Re: Foundation of Christian Religion 18 Nov 2005 01:12:33 PM
Bill wrote:

The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in
existence.

There are no originals of any ancient writing, at all.
You need to either start a crusade against history or admit your
hypocrisy/ignorance.
.
User: "Dennis"

Title: Re: Foundation of Christian Religion 18 Nov 2005 01:50:00 PM
<thissteve@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1132319553.356805.308920@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...


Bill wrote:

The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in
existence.


There are no originals of any ancient writing, at all.

What do you call the hieroglyphic writing of the ancient Egyptians? Are
those copies?


You need to either start a crusade against history or admit your
hypocrisy/ignorance.

Now your admission is necessary.
In His Service,
Dennis


.
User: ""

Title: Re: Foundation of Christian Religion 18 Nov 2005 02:27:54 PM
Dennis wrote:

<thissteve@yahoo.com> wrote in message

There are no originals of any ancient writing, at all.


What do you call the hieroglyphic writing of the ancient Egyptians? Are
those copies?

Now your admission is necessary.

In His Service,
Dennis


I admit that I didn't play "lawyer" very well. An ancient writing to a
historian is a literary composition--a book, a letter, a document.
Compare "an ancient writing" to "ancient writing". But if it's
necessary for me to admit that I neglected wall scribblings or clay
pottery or whatever to move forward, than I admit that neglect.
There are no originals of the Iliad. There are no originals of any
work from Thucydides, Polybius, Josephus, Tacitus, Aristotle,
Confucius, or Caesar. The person who demands original manuscript
evidence for acceptance must deny all specific events in ancient
history. That person would likely become very upset in a history class
as delusions are foisted on the minds of the gullable.
.

User: "Don Kresch"

Title: Re: Foundation of Christian Religion 18 Nov 2005 03:30:09 PM
In alt.atheism On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 07:50:00 -0600, "Dennis"
<dvickers@fidnet.com> let us all know that:


<thissteve@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1132319553.356805.308920@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...


Bill wrote:

The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in
existence.


There are no originals of any ancient writing, at all.


What do you call the hieroglyphic writing of the ancient Egyptians?

I wasn't aware that any bit of the bible was written in
Egyptian hieroglyphs. Nor is any biblical scholar aware of it.
Don
.
User: "Dennis"

Title: Re: Foundation of Christian Religion 18 Nov 2005 08:29:28 PM
"Don Kresch" <ROT13.qxerfpu@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote in message
news:lqsrn1tbnkgulug4k8so5c7qaljevb3dq2@4ax.com...

In alt.atheism On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 07:50:00 -0600, "Dennis"
<dvickers@fidnet.com> let us all know that:


<thissteve@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1132319553.356805.308920@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...


Bill wrote:

The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in
existence.


There are no originals of any ancient writing, at all.


What do you call the hieroglyphic writing of the ancient Egyptians?


I wasn't aware that any bit of the bible was written in
Egyptian hieroglyphs. Nor is any biblical scholar aware of it.

You are average in attempting to place words where they do not belong. I did
not say nor did I imply that the Bible was written in Egyptian
heiroglyphics. I was simply stating that there are originals of ancient
writing available. Although the heiroglyphics have backed up portions of the
Bible. By the way, how do you have infinite wisdom of all Bible scholars to
make such a statement?
In His Service,
Dennis



Don

.
User: "Don Kresch"

Title: Re: Foundation of Christian Religion 19 Nov 2005 04:59:00 AM
In alt.atheism On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 14:29:28 -0600, "Dennis"
<dvickers@fidnet.com> let us all know that:


"Don Kresch" <ROT13.qxerfpu@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote in message
news:lqsrn1tbnkgulug4k8so5c7qaljevb3dq2@4ax.com...

In alt.atheism On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 07:50:00 -0600, "Dennis"
<dvickers@fidnet.com> let us all know that:


<thissteve@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1132319553.356805.308920@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...


Bill wrote:

The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in
existence.


There are no originals of any ancient writing, at all.


What do you call the hieroglyphic writing of the ancient Egyptians?


I wasn't aware that any bit of the bible was written in
Egyptian hieroglyphs. Nor is any biblical scholar aware of it.


You are average in attempting to place words where they do not belong. I did
not say nor did I imply that the Bible was written in Egyptian
heiroglyphics.

Yes, you most certainly did.

I was simply stating that there are originals of ancient
writing available. Although the heiroglyphics have backed up portions of the
Bible.

Such as?

By the way, how do you have infinite wisdom of all Bible scholars to
make such a statement?

I don't need to; all I need are their writings.
Don
.
User: "Dennis"

Title: Re: Foundation of Christian Religion 21 Nov 2005 01:19:57 PM
"Don Kresch" <ROT13.qxerfpu@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote in message
news:n6ctn1dpki5ulg0km4v3m833ftnkpgm0v8@4ax.com...

In alt.atheism On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 14:29:28 -0600, "Dennis"
<dvickers@fidnet.com> let us all know that:


"Don Kresch" <ROT13.qxerfpu@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote in message
news:lqsrn1tbnkgulug4k8so5c7qaljevb3dq2@4ax.com...

In alt.atheism On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 07:50:00 -0600, "Dennis"
<dvickers@fidnet.com> let us all know that:


<thissteve@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1132319553.356805.308920@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...


Bill wrote:

The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS

in

existence.


There are no originals of any ancient writing, at all.


What do you call the hieroglyphic writing of the ancient Egyptians?


I wasn't aware that any bit of the bible was written in
Egyptian hieroglyphs. Nor is any biblical scholar aware of it.


You are average in attempting to place words where they do not belong. I

did

not say nor did I imply that the Bible was written in Egyptian
heiroglyphics.


Yes, you most certainly did.

First lesson in answering: Have even a little knowledge of the subject
matter.
Bill stated, and I quote: "There are no originals of any ancient writing, at
all". Check the original post should you have doubt.

I was simply stating that there are originals of ancient
writing available. Although the heiroglyphics have backed up portions of

the

Bible.


Such as?

By the way, how do you have infinite wisdom of all Bible scholars to
make such a statement?


I don't need to; all I need are their writings.

If you have infinite knowledge of all writings of Bible scholars, then you
already have the list of findings which you know to be true.
A bit pious don't you think?



Don

.




User: "Jos"

Title: Re: Foundation of Christian Religion 21 Nov 2005 11:52:06 AM
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 07:50:00 -0600, "Dennis" <dvickers@fidnet.com>
wrote:


<thissteve@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1132319553.356805.308920@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...


Bill wrote:

The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in
existence.


There are no originals of any ancient writing, at all.


What do you call the hieroglyphic writing of the ancient Egyptians? Are
those copies?

Do they mention a worldwide flood?
A chappie named Mo?
A bunch of rebellious slaves running away causing a giant economic
depression?
.


User: "Christopher A. Lee"

Title: Re: Foundation of Christian Religion 18 Nov 2005 02:16:10 PM
On 18 Nov 2005 05:12:33 -0800,
wrote:


Bill wrote:

The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in
existence.


There are no originals of any ancient writing, at all.

Rosetta stone? Egyptian clay tablets?

You need to either start a crusade against history or admit your
hypocrisy/ignorance.

You need to either get an education or admit your hypocrisy/ignorance.
.
User: "Dennis"

Title: Re: Foundation of Christian Religion 18 Nov 2005 02:23:37 PM
Good morning Christ-o-pher,
It is good to see that you are in a prime frame of mind this morning.
See you are denying yet another fact, yes the Rosetta stone, and
heiroglyphics are proof that ancient writings do exist. Any other mistakes
you would like to make today, it is still early.
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:8eorn19mukuhq6dn16qbve9o7vnsbvidkd@4ax.com...

On 18 Nov 2005 05:12:33 -0800,

wrote:


Bill wrote:

The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in
existence.


There are no originals of any ancient writing, at all.


Rosetta stone? Egyptian clay tablets?

You need to either start a crusade against history or admit your
hypocrisy/ignorance.


You need to either get an education or admit your hypocrisy/ignorance.

Your "education" and mine are of no equal, you see mine will overshadow
yours, and how do I know this? It already has. I accept your appology for
inferring that I did not have an education.
I kniow, you are going to refute the fact that you appologized, but I know
you really want to, so go ahead, your appology has already benn accepted/
In His Service,
Dennis
.



User: "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian"

Title: Re: Foundation of Christian Religion 14 Nov 2005 05:33:49 AM
Bill wrote:

Yet most followers believe they are the
word of their God.

To be fair toward the non-braindead believers, as far as I can tell, most
christians
1. don't believe in literal truth of the bible
2. don't know jack about the nonsense and barbarism one can find in there,
only knowing what their preachers told them.
Of course these only had a homeopathical dose of the mind virus, so one
_could_ argue that they are *cough cough* not true christians ;)
--
"To his friend a man a friend shall prove,
And gifts with gifts requite;
But men shall mocking with mockery answer,
And fraud with falsehood meet."
(The Poetic Edda)
Must have been written with fundies in mind...
.
User: "Uncle Vic"

Title: Re: Foundation of Christian Religion 14 Nov 2005 05:40:42 PM
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian
(MAILTOcommoner@carcosa.de) made the light shine upon us with this:

Yet most followers believe they are the
word of their God.


To be fair toward the non-braindead believers, as far as I can tell, most
christians
1. don't believe in literal truth of the bible

This is because it doesn't jive with reality. Reading between the lines is
a form of rationalization, like making the square peg fit the round hole.
--
Uncle Vic
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
----
"GARGOYLES, PSYCHICS, EVERYTHING UNGODLY, GET THE HELL OUT OF MY
HOUSE, IN JESUS NAME I PRAY. THE DARK SIDE, SHE's NOT A CHRISTIAN,
SHE'S DARK-SIDED, SHE'S DARK-SIDED, THIS IS MY HOUSE, I WANT MY GOD
AND I WANT MY FAMILY. I AM A GOD WARRIOR SHE'S A SPIRITUAL WARRIOR,
SHE WAS THROWN IN THE PITS, OH NO THE HORRORS"
Ain't Christianity great?
.
User: "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian"

Title: Re: Foundation of Christian Religion 14 Nov 2005 08:02:21 PM
Uncle Vic wrote:

To be fair toward the non-braindead believers, as far as I can tell, most
christians
1. don't believe in literal truth of the bible

This is because it doesn't jive with reality. Reading between the lines
is a form of rationalization, like making the square peg fit the round
hole.

Strictly speaking yes.
But then, as soon as they "live and let live", I don't mind ;)
--
"To his friend a man a friend shall prove,
And gifts with gifts requite;
But men shall mocking with mockery answer,
And fraud with falsehood meet."
(The Poetic Edda)
Must have been written with fundies in mind...
.
User: "Uncle Vic"

Title: Re: Foundation of Christian Religion 14 Nov 2005 09:16:52 PM
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Thurisaz, Germanic
barbarian (MAILTOcommoner@carcosa.de) made the light shine upon us with
this:

Uncle Vic wrote:

To be fair toward the non-braindead believers, as far as I can tell,
most christians
1. don't believe in literal truth of the bible

This is because it doesn't jive with reality. Reading between the
lines is a form of rationalization, like making the square peg fit
the round hole.


Strictly speaking yes.
But then, as soon as they "live and let live", I don't mind ;)

I wouldn't either...but I'm still waiting.
--
Uncle Vic
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
----
"GARGOYLES, PSYCHICS, EVERYTHING UNGODLY, GET THE HELL OUT OF MY
HOUSE, IN JESUS NAME I PRAY. THE DARK SIDE, SHE's NOT A CHRISTIAN,
SHE'S DARK-SIDED, SHE'S DARK-SIDED, THIS IS MY HOUSE, I WANT MY GOD
AND I WANT MY FAMILY. I AM A GOD WARRIOR SHE'S A SPIRITUAL WARRIOR,
SHE WAS THROWN IN THE PITS, OH NO THE HORRORS"
Ain't Christianity great?
.




User: "Dennis"

Title: Re: Foundation of Christian Religion 15 Nov 2005 06:53:22 AM
It takes more faith to believe the way you do then it does to believe in the
one true God and in the inerrancy of the Bible.
Your post is so full of mindless bable that it indicates that you obviously
have not completed any personal research, but are relying on the liberal
world view for your information. I would suggest that you forget all you
have ever been taught, and come up with your own individual research on God,
and then you will come to know the truth, and the Truth shall set you free.
If you need help there are plenty of true Christian believers on this
newsgroup to help you find your way.
In His Service,
Dennis
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:gpMdf.13744$kd.11525@bignews4.bellsouth.net...

The foundation of the Christian and Hebrew religions are the Bibles. They
are a foundation of quick sand! Yet most followers believe they are the

word

of their God.



The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in
existence. Why would God not protect the originals? What are available are
copies of copies by unknown men of questionable veracity biased by, and
dependent on, their membership in the clergy. The originals rotted and
disappeared thousands of years ago. The Bibles were hand written and
recopied more than a thousand years before the invention of the printing
press. And of course we not only do not know what was in the originals but
they were also written by errant biased men motivated to impress their
flock.



If Jesus was God, why did he not leave behind his recorded record of his
rules and commands? Why are there NO Biblical documents written during his
time on earth? The Old Testaments were written before his birth. The New
Testaments were written 60 and more years after his death and there is NO
objective verifiable evidence as to their authenticity and veracity.



The Bibles contain both historical and scientific errors. They contain
manifest absurdities, unfulfilled prophesies, immoralities, indecencies,
obscenities, atrocities, barbarities, myths, folklore and legends. They

are

nothing more than hearsay, myths and implausible tales.



Here is just a small sampling of implausible Bible stories.



The story of creation



A totally illogical Biblical story is the story of creation. It is

obviously

pure fiction



Biblically, god created the world 5,000 to 10,000 years ago. Scientific
evidence indicates the Universe, as we now know it, began more than 14
BILLION years ago or more.



In the Bible, the Universe is a firmament and the Earth is a fixed (not to
mention flat) Planet and the Son, Moon and other planets revolve around

the

earth. We now KNOW the Earth revolves around the Son and the Universe is
over 20 BILLION light years in diameter and is made up of trillions of

Stars

and Planets of which our planetary system is a very miniscule and
unimportant part.



In the Bible the earth is created in the first day, before the Son, Moon

and

Stars. Objective scientific evidence is that the Earth did not form until
approximately 10 BILLION YEARS after the beginning of the present Universe
and after the formation of the Son, and many other stars.



The Creation of the World

Genesis







In the beginning of creation, when God made heaven and earth, the earth

was

without form and void, with darkness over the face of the abyss, and a
mighty wind that swept over the surface of the waters. God said, Let there
be light, and there was light; and God saw that the light was good, and he
separated light from darkness. He called the light day, and the darkness
night. So evening came, and morning came, the first day. God created light
before he created the Sun and the Moon!



The Son is known to have existed long before the Earth; therefore the

earth

was not created before the Son. It is equally obvious that the writers of
that time thought the World was the center the firmament and that they had
no conception of the size and nature of the Universe. Everything beyond

the

Sun and Moon was considered to be gods Heaven


God said, Let there be a vault between the waters, to separate water from
water. So God made the vault, and separated the water under the vault from
the water above it, and so it was; and God called the vault heaven.

Evening

came, and morning came, a second day.


God said; Let the waters under heaven be gathered into one place, so that
dry land may appear; and so it was. God called the dry land earth, and the
gathering of the waters he called seas; and God saw that it was good. Then
God said, Let the earth produce fresh growth, let there be on the earth
plants bearing seed, fruit-trees bearing fruit each with seed according to
its kind. So it was; the earth yielded fresh growth, plants bearing seed
according to their kind and trees bearing fruit each with seed according

to

its king; and God saw that it was good. Evening came, and morning came, a
third day.



And this good and loving God created animals that eat other animals (and
man) and poisonous plants and snakes that kill!


God said, Let there be lights in the vault of heaven to separate day from
night, and let them serve as signs both for festivals and for seasons and
years. Let them also shine in the vault of heaven to give light on earth.

So

it was; God made the two great lights, the greater to govern the day and

the

lesser to govern the night; and with them he made the stars. God put these
lights in the vault of heaven to give light on earth, to govern day and
night, and to separate light from darkness; and God saw that it was good.
Evening came, and morning came, a fourth day.



Ancient man erroneously thought the stars beyond the Sun and Moon to be
Heaven. The Moon was not considered a reflection from the light of the Sun
but a lesser light.


God, said, Let the waters teem with countless living creatures, and let
birds fly above the earth across the vault of heaven. god then created the
great sea-monsters and all living creatures that move and swarm in the
waters, according to their kind, and every kind of bird; and God saw that

it

was good. So he blessed them and said, be fruitful and increase, fill the
waters of the seas; and let the birds increase on land. Evening came, and
morning came, a fifth day.



And this all loving God created creatures of the that kill and eat other
creatures including man.


God said, let the earth bring forth living creatures, according to their
kind: cattle, reptiles, and wild animals, all according to their kind. So

it

was; God made wild animals, cattle, and all reptiles, each according to

its

kind; and he saw that it was good. Then God said, Let us make man it our
image and likeness to rule the fish in the sea , the birds of heaven, the
cattle, all wild animals on earth, and all reptiles that crawl upon the
earth. So God created man in his own image; in the image of God he created
him; male and female he created them. God blessed them and said to them,

be

fruitful and increase, fill the earth and subdue it, rule over the fish in
the sea, the birds of heaven, and every living thing that moves upon the
earth. God also said, I give you all plants that bear seed everywhere on
earth, and every tree bearing fruit which yields seed: they shall be yours
for food. All green plants I give for food to the wild animals, to all the
birds of heaven, and to all reptiles on earth, every living creature. So

it

was; and God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. Evening came,
and morning came, a sixth day.



And God created animals that need to kill and eat other animals including
man in order to survive. This is a loving and caring God?


Thus heaven and earth were completed with all their mighty throng. On the
sixth day God completed all the work he had been doing, and on the seventh
day he ceased from all his work. God blessed the seventh day and made it
holy, because on that day he ceased from all the work he had set himself

to

do and rested.



Why would a God that is not physical but spiritual, get tired and need

rest?




If this creator is such a loving and caring guy, why does he permit

totally

innocent children to die at birth? Or worse, be born lacking eyesight, a
fully developed brain, deaf and dumb, missing limbs etc.?



Why are some born idiots and others with super intelligence?



Why does this loving and caring god create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes,
Volcanic Eruptions, Wars, cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases

and

serious body malfunctions that effect people indiscriminately regardless

of

their conduct or religious beliefs? Why does he permit millions of both
young and old to starve to death?



These afflict humans indiscriminately - young and old, atheists and

members

of all religious beliefs.



Why did he design humans to suffer the decrepitude and malignancies of old
age? Even those that devote their lives to religious leadership suffer

these

punishments of old age.



Why did this caring benevolent god create animals that need to eat other
animals to survive?



If there is a god that created the Universe, he is obviously not an
all-caring and benevolent god. The objective evidence is that, if there is

a

god creator, he has no concern about the welfare of the creatures on

Earth.




Adam and Eve



In the Bible, there are two different accounts of Adam and Eve's creation.



According to the Priestly (P) history of the 5th or 6th century BC

(Genesis

1:1-2:4), God on the sixth day of Creation created all the living

creatures

and, "in his own image," man both "male and female." God then blessed the
couple, told them to be "fruitful and multiply," and gave them dominion

over

all other living things.



According to the lengthier Yahwist (J) narrative of the 10th century BC
(Genesis 2:5-7, 2:15-4:1, 4:25), God, or Yahweh, created Adam at a time

when

the earth was still void, forming him from the earth's dust and breathing
"into his nostrils the breath of life." God then gave Adam the primeval
Garden of Eden to tend but, on penalty of death, commanded him not to eat

of

the fruit of the "tree of knowledge of good and evil." Subsequently, so

that

Adam would not be alone, God created other animals but, finding these
insufficient, put Adam to sleep, took from him a rib, and created a new
companion, Eve. The two were persons of innocence until Eve yielded to the
temptations of the evil serpent and Adam joined her in eating the

forbidden

fruit, whereupon they both recognized their nakedness and donned fig

leaves

as garments. Immediately, God recognized their transgression and

proclaimed

their punishments-for the woman, pain in childbirth and subordination to
man, and, for the man, relegation to an accursed ground with which he must
toil and sweat for his subsistence. Adam died at the age of 930!



In later Christian theology, the concept of original sin (q.v.) took

hold-a

sin in which human kind has been held captive since the fall of Adam and
Eve. The doctrine was based on Pauline Scripture but has not been accepted
by a number of Christian sects and interpreters. Why should BILLIONS of
innocent people be punished over thousands of years for this original sin
that they had no part in?



This is both sadistic and ridiculous!





Jonah



As the story is related in the Book of Jonah, the prophet Jonah is called

by

God to go to Nineveh (a great Assyrian city) and prophesy disaster because
of the city's wickedness. Jonah, in the story, feels about Nineveh as does
the author of the Book of Nahum-that the city must inevitably be destroyed
because of God's judgment against it. Thus Jonah does not want to

prophesy,

because Nineveh might repent and thereby be saved. So he rushes down to
Joppa and takes passage in a ship that will carry him in the opposite
direction, thinking to escape God.



A storm of unprecedented severity strikes the ship, and it shows signs of
breaking up and foundering. Jonah confesses that it is his presence on

board

that is causing the storm. At his request, he is thrown overboard, and the
storm subsides.



A "great fish," appointed by God, swallows Jonah, and he stays within the
fish's maw for three days and nights. He prays for deliverance and is
"vomited out" on dry land (ch. 2).



Totally implausible. He would have been digested by the fish in those

three

days!



Sodom and Gomorrah



According to the Bible these cities and everyone in them, except Lot and

his

family, were destroyed by fire and brimstone for their sinfulness. Lot's
wife was turned into a pillar of salt for disobeying God's command to not
look back at her city of birth being destroyed.



There is no way that EVERYONE in two cities could be so sinful, especially
innocent children, to deserve destruction by fire and brimstone.



Sodom and Gomorrah constituted, along with the cities of Admah, Zeboiim,

and

Zoar (Bela), the five biblical "cities of the plain." Destroyed

by"brimstone

and fire" because of their wickedness (Genesis 19:24).



Sodom and Gomorrah probably were devastated about 1900 BC by an earthquake
in the Dead Sea area of the Great Rift Valley, an extensive rift extending
from the Jordan River valley in Israel to the Zambezi River system in East
Africa. When the catastrophic destruction occurred, the petroleum and

gases

existing in the area probably contributed to the imagery of "brimstone and
fire"



Cruel, inhumane and pure nonsense!



The Tower of Babel



Genesis 11.1 - 11.9

God became concerned that the Tower being built would reach his heaven.

He confounded the builders by giving them different languages so they

could

no longer communicate with each other to continue the construction.



Why would this be of any concern to an all powerful God creator and

wouldn't

this God creator realize that no tower could possibly reach his spiritual
heaven?

Noah and the Ark

The Bible is claimed to be the inerrant word of God

The story of Noah and the flood is only one of many ridiculous biblical
tales with no authentication or plausibility of any kind. It is an
impossible story.

1. The largest boat ever built to this day could not even come CLOSE

to

housing Noah, his sons, wives and two of every type of animal on earth.

And

this was a boat built of wood many thousands of years ago. There are 1.7
million KNOWN species of animals on this planet. This story is patently
impossible, using only materials and tools available to Noah, to build an
arch large enough to hold all these creatures, together with suitable
environments for each of them to live in, keeping them all separated so

they

don't kill and eat each other. And then provide room and an environment

for

many hundreds of millions of known species of insects, plants, molds etc.

on

this planet?

2. Where did they house all of the new born during this ten month
escapade?

3. In addition, the ship would have to carry a TEN MONTHS supply of

food

and fresh water for the people and thousands of animals for them to

survive.

What would the carnivores have eaten? Whatever prey they ate would have

gone

extinct. How did they dispose of the thousands of tons of feces? It must
have been one stinking ship!

4. Now according to the Bible the earth was flooded for ten months.

This

would kill off all the vegetation. What did the animals eat for an
additional year or more after the flood subsided?

5. Noah sends a dove out to see if there was any dry land. But the

dove

returns without finding any. Then, just seven days later, the dove goes

out

again and returns with an olive leaf. But how could an olive tree survive
the flood? And if any seeds happened to survive, they certainly wouldn't
germinate and grow leaves within a seven day period. 8:8-11.

6. And according to this myth, Noah was also over 600 years old!

This is a grossly implausible tale that ranks as a greater tale than Santa
Claus, The Wizard of Oz, The Easter Bunny and The Tooth Fairy!

Genesis 6:6

6 The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart

was

filled with pain.

7 So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the

face

of the earth: men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground,

and

birds of the air-for I am grieved that I have made them."

9 Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he
walked with God.

Genesis 7

1 The LORD then said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family,
because I have found you righteous in this generation. 2 Take with you

seven

[a] of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of every
kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven of every

kind

of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the
earth. 4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days
and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living
creature I have made."

6 Noah was six hundred years old when the floodwaters came on the earth. 7
And Noah and his sons and his wife and his sons' wives entered the ark to
escape the waters of the flood. 8 Pairs of clean and unclean animals, of
birds and of all creatures that move along the ground, 9 male and female,
came to Noah and entered the ark, as God had commanded Noah. 10 And after
the seven days the floodwaters came on the earth.



This is patently ridiculous and impossible. How could they capture and

load

over three million animals in a period of seven days???



11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the
second month-on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth,

and

the floodgates of the heavens were opened. 12 And rain fell on the earth
forty days and forty nights.

13 On that very day Noah and his sons, Shem, Ham and Japheth, together

with

his wife and the wives of his three sons, entered the ark. 14 They had

with

them every wild animal according to its kind, all livestock according to
their kinds, every creature that moves along the ground according to its
kind and every bird according to its kind, everything with wings. 15 Pairs
of all creatures that have the breath of life in them came to Noah and
entered the ark. 16 The animals going in were male and female of every
living thing, as God had commanded Noah. Then the LORD shut him in.

17 For forty days the flood kept coming on the earth, and as the waters
increased they lifted the ark high above the earth. 18 The waters rose and
increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the surface of the
water. 19 They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under
the entire heavens were covered. 20 The waters rose and covered the
mountains to a depth of more than twenty feet. [, 21 Every living thing

that

moved on the earth perished-birds, livestock, wild animals, all the
creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. 22 Everything on dry
land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23 Every living

thing

on the face of the earth was wiped out; men and animals and the creatures
that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the
earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.

24 The waters flooded the earth for a hundred and fifty days.

This of course would have also killed all the vegetation on Earth!



Genesis 7:6 (New International Version)

6 Noah was "six hundred" years old when the floodwaters came on the earth.

7 And Noah and his sons and his wife and his sons' wives entered the ark

to

escape the waters of the flood

Genesis 8

1 But God remembered Noah and all the wild animals and the livestock that
were with him in the ark, and he sent a wind over the earth, and the

waters

receded.

3 The water receded steadily from the earth. At the end of the hundred and
fifty days the water had gone down,

4 and on the seventeenth day of the seventh month the ark came to rest on
the mountains of Ararat.

5 The waters continued to recede until the tenth month, and on the first

day

of the tenth month the tops of the mountains became visible



And what did they eat until all the vegetation recovered from the flood???

Genesis 9 God's Covenant with Noah

1 Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, "Be fruitful and
increase in number and fill the earth.

2 The fear and dread of you will fall upon all the beasts of the earth and
all the birds of the air, upon every creature that moves along the ground,
and upon all the fish of the sea; they are given into your hands.

3 Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you
the green plants, I now give you everything.

4 "But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it.

5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand
an accounting from every animal. And from each man, too, I will demand an
accounting for the life of his fellow man.



Before man learned how to create a fire, he had no choice but to eat raw
meat!



Samson



Hebrew Shimshon, Israelite hero portrayed in an epic narrative in the Old
Testament (Judg. 13-16). He was a Nazirite (q.v.) and a legendary warrior
whose incredible exploits hint at the weight of Philistine pressure on
Israel during much of the early, tribal period of Israel in Canaan
(1200-1000).



Samson was claimed to possess extraordinary physical strength, and the

moral

of his saga relates the disastrous loss of his power to the violation of

his

Nazirite vow. Credited with remarkable exploits-e.g., the slaying of a

lion

and moving the gates of Gaza-he first broke his religious promises by
feasting with a woman from the neighboring town of Timnah, who was also a
Philistine, one of Israel's mortal enemies. Other remarkable deeds follow;
e.g., his decimating the Philistines in a private war. On another occasion
he repulsed their assault on him at Gaza, where he had gone to visit a
harlot. He finally fell victim to his foes through love of Delilah, a

woman

of the valley of Sorek, who beguiled him into revealing the secret of his
strength: his long Nazirite hair. As he slept, Delilah had his hair cut

and

betrayed him. He was captured, blinded, and enslaved by the Philistines,

but

in the end he was granted his revenge; through the return of his old
strength, he supposedly demolished the great Philistine temple of the god
Dagon, at Gaza, destroying his captors and himself (Judg.16:4-30).



A truly implausible tale!



God created a three level Universe - Heaven above, a flat World resting on
water. Genesis 1:6-10; 7:11; 8:2; 11:11-9; 19:24; 28:12-13; Exodus 20:4;

Numbers 16:30-33; Deuteronomy 33:17.



God created the Sun and the Moon on the fourth day but created light on

the

first day! Genesis1:1-9; 14-19



It is claimed that the Eve, first woman, was created from one of Adam's
ribs.

Genesis 3:1-5 Men and women have the same number of ribs on each side of
their body? And in any case why would a god that has created the Universe
and everything in it need to tale rib from Adam to create Eve???



The Bibles claim that a talking snake talked Eve into eating the forbidden
fruit.



The Bibles claim that Adam lived 930 years, Seth 912 years, Enosh 905

years,

Kenan910 years, Mahalael 895 years, Jared 962 years, Methuselah 969 years;
Lamech 777 years, and Noah 950 years. Genesis 5:-31; 9:29



God commanded that every baby boy at age of eight days be circumcised.

At that time sterilization (of knives) was unknown and many died of
infection for which they new no cure. Why did this almighty and all caring
God create baby boys with foreskins on their penis that he then required

to

be painfully and dangerously removed?



This all caring and loving God sent ten horrible plagues upon the

Egyptians

Exodus 7:14-12:32 and in his loving generosity gave Israel the land of the
Canaanites and the Israelites slaughtered every person of seven nations.

Twenty one million, men women and innocent children, were slaughtered
according to the Bible. Exodus 12:1-2

This is a loving god???



God in the Bibles classifies bats as birds when anyone with an elementary
knowledge of biology knows that bats are flying MAMMALS!

Letiviticus11:13, 19



This God can't control his temper resulting in killing thousands of

people.

Numbers 11:31-35; 25:1-9

He and Moses ordered the Israelites to kill all the male and Female
Medianites who had ever had sex but to spare the young women who were
virgins and keep them for themselves to enjoy. Numbers 31:14-1





Jeremiah:16:1: The word of the LORD came also unto me, saying,
2: Thou shall not take thee a wife, neither shall thou have sons or
daughters in this place.
3: For thus saith the LORD concerning the sons and concerning the

daughters

that are born in this place, and concerning their mothers that bare them,
and concerning their fathers that begat them in this land;
4: They shall die of grievous deaths; they shall not be lamented; neither
shall they be buried; but they shall be as dung upon the face of the

earth:

and they shall be consumed by the sword, and by famine; and their

carcasses

shall be meat for the fowls of heaven, and for the beasts of the earth.
5: For thus saith the LORD, Enter not into the house of mourning, neither

go

to lament nor bemoan them: for I have taken away my peace from this

people,

saith the LORD, even loving kindness and mercies.



======================================================

According to the unerring Bible, the earth is the oldest object in the
Universe. (Genesis 1:1), snakes can talk (Genesis 3:1-5), and Man had
dominion over the dinosaurs (Genesis 1:26, 28)."



Really??? The Earth did not come into existence until 10 BILLION years

after

the Universe. Man came into existence MILLIONS of years AFTER the

extinction

of the Dinosaurs.

======================================================

This is just a sampling of ridiculous Bible tales. The Bibles are

obviously

a mixture of fiction, fables, folklore and pure nonsense.



And these Bibles were dictated by God??? Then this God must be a demented
idiot.





.
User: "Libertarius"

Title: Re: Foundation of Christian Religion 16 Nov 2005 02:43:35 AM
Dennis wrote:

It takes more faith to believe the way you do then it does to believe in the
one true God and in the inerrancy of the Bible.

===>It takes "faith" to blindly 'believe" in ANYTHING.
It takes no "faith" to recognize REALITY. -- L.
.
User: "Dennis"

Title: Re: Foundation of Christian Religion 16 Nov 2005 11:42:45 AM
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:437A9CD7.E109873A@Nothing_But_The.Truth...



Dennis wrote:

It takes more faith to believe the way you do then it does to believe in

the

one true God and in the inerrancy of the Bible.


===>It takes "faith" to blindly 'believe" in ANYTHING.
It takes no "faith" to recognize REALITY. -- L.

Reality is a state of mind.
Example: Someone who truely believes that they have spiders crawling all
over them, in actuality it may not be happening, yet to them it is reality.
Faith is a state of relationship.
Example: Do you love anyone in your life? Wife, children, parents? If so
this is faith, for you cannot prove love exist.
God is love, and without his example of love on the cross we have no
measuring line to go by, hence we would not know love without God. This is a
simple yet profound truth.
In His Service,
Dennis
.
User: "Libertarius"

Title: Re: Foundation of Christian Religion 16 Nov 2005 03:44:02 PM
Dennis wrote:

"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:437A9CD7.E109873A@Nothing_But_The.Truth...



Dennis wrote:

It takes more faith to believe the way you do then it does to believe in

the

one true God and in the inerrancy of the Bible.


===>It takes "faith" to blindly 'believe" in ANYTHING.
It takes no "faith" to recognize REALITY. -- L.


Reality is a state of mind.

===>That is a weird belief on your part.
By your definition an insane person's delusional "world"
is reality?


Example: Someone who truely believes that they have spiders crawling all
over them, in actuality it may not be happening, yet to them it is reality.

===>SO, you don't believe in objective reality.
Strange! -- L.
.

User: "B T"

Title: Re: Foundation of Christian Religion 17 Nov 2005 07:14:32 AM
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 05:42:45 -0600, Dennis <dvickers@fidnet.com> wrote:


Reality is a state of mind.

Say that loud jumping of the top of empire state building.

Example: Someone who truely believes that they have spiders crawling all
over them, in actuality it may not be happening, yet to them it is reality.

Sure, and many such "realities" get "treated" in psychiatric wards

Faith is a state of relationship.
Example: Do you love anyone in your life? Wife, children, parents? If so
this is faith, for you cannot prove love exist.

*****, there are volumes of scientific works published on the
physiological correlates of inter-personal attraction. Pick up any book
of psychophysics.

God is love, and without his example of love on the cross we have no
measuring line to go by, hence we would not know love without God. This is a
simple yet profound truth.

Here is a good example of god's love from another post in this group :
"When you approach a town to attack it, you shall offer it terms of
peace. If it responds peaceably and lets you in, all the people present
there shall serve you at forced labor. If it does not surrender to you,
but would join battle with you, you shall lay siege to it; and when
the lord your God delivers it into your hand, you shall put all its
males to the sword. You may, however, take as your booty the women,
the children, the livestock, and everything in town -- all its spoil --
and enjoy the use of the spoil of your enemy, which the lord your God
gives you. Thus shall you deal with all towns that lie very far from
you, towns that do not belong to nations thereabout. In the towns of
the latter people, how-ever, which the Lord your God is giving you
as a heritage, you shall not let a soul remain alive."
-- Deuteronomy 20 ( The Bible )
.
User: "Pastor Dave"

Title: Re: Foundation of Christian Religion 17 Nov 2005 07:56:24 AM
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 07:14:32 GMT, B T <bt@hotmail.com> spake
thusly:

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 05:42:45 -0600, Dennis <dvickers@fidnet.com> wrote:


Reality is a state of mind.


Say that loud jumping of the top of empire state building.

<LOL!>
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
1st Century Church of Christ
Preaching the truth of Scripture,
from Creation to Revelation!
http://home.tampabay.rr.com/1stcentury
The way of a fool is right in his own eyes,
But he who hates correction is stupid.
Go from the presence of a foolish man,
When you do not perceive in him the lips of knowledge.
He who despises the word will be destroyed.
- Proverbs (assorted)
.
User: "Christopher A. Lee"

Title: Re: Foundation of Christian Religion 17 Nov 2005 08:01:30 AM
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 07:56:24 GMT, Pastor Dave


Pastor Dave Raymond
1st Century Church of Christ

Preaching the truth of Scripture,
from Creation to Revelation!

What "truth of Scripture", nym-shifting, in-your-face, lying moron?
re-<plonk>
.
User: "Pastor Dave"

Title: Re: Foundation of Christian Religion 17 Nov 2005 09:02:37 AM
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 03:01:30 -0500, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> spake thusly:

On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 07:56:24 GMT, Pastor Dave


Pastor Dave Raymond
1st Century Church of Christ

Preaching the truth of Scripture,
from Creation to Revelation!


What "truth of Scripture", nym-shifting, in-your-face, lying moron?

re-<plonk>

Yes, thank you for showing us the maturity and intelligence
of evolutionists.
He plonks me because of my sig. But he's not scared of
the truth about evolution, right? :)
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
1st Century Church of Christ
Preaching the truth of Scripture,
from Creation to Revelation!
http://home.tampabay.rr.com/1stcentury
The way of a fool is right in his own eyes,
But he who hates correction is stupid.
Go from the presence of a foolish man,
When you do not perceive in him the lips of knowledge.
He who despises the word will be destroyed.
- Proverbs (assorted)
.






User: "Bill"

Title: Re: Foundation of Christian Religion 15 Nov 2005 06:00:35 PM
Dennis, you obviously have your head up your Christian A--.
I was raised a Catholic, served as an alter boy, attended both Catholic
Grade schools, High School and College.
Early on I considered the priesthood.
I have read the scriptures and am well versed on Christianity and other
religions.
You quite obviously either did not read the post or are not literate.
Almost all of the material is quoted directly from the Bible.
"Dennis" <dvickers@fidnet.com> wrote in message
news:rcydnWvN0q4RG-TeRVn-iw@fidnet.com...

It takes more faith to believe the way you do then it does to believe in
the
one true God and in the inerrancy of the Bible.

Your post is so full of mindless bable that it indicates that you
obviously
have not completed any personal research, but are relying on the liberal
world view for your information. I would suggest that you forget all you
have ever been taught, and come up with your own individual research on
God,
and then you will come to know the truth, and the Truth shall set you
free.
If you need help there are plenty of true Christian believers on this
newsgroup to help you find your way.

In His Service,
Dennis

"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:gpMdf.13744$kd.11525@bignews4.bellsouth.net...

The foundation of the Christian and Hebrew religions are the Bibles. They
are a foundation of quick sand! Yet most followers believe they are the

word

of their God.



The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in
existence. Why would God not protect the originals? What are available
are
copies of copies by unknown men of questionable veracity biased by, and
dependent on, their membership in the clergy. The originals rotted and
disappeared thousands of years ago. The Bibles were hand written and
recopied more than a thousand years before the invention of the printing
press. And of course we not only do not know what was in the originals
but
they were also written by errant biased men motivated to impress their
flock.



If Jesus was God, why did he not leave behind his recorded record of his
rules and commands? Why are there NO Biblical documents written during
his
time on earth? The Old Testaments were written before his birth. The New
Testaments were written 60 and more years after his death and there is NO
objective verifiable evidence as to their authenticity and veracity.



The Bibles contain both historical and scientific errors. They contain
manifest absurdities, unfulfilled prophesies, immoralities, indecencies,
obscenities, atrocities, barbarities, myths, folklore and legends. They

are

nothing more than hearsay, myths and implausible tales.



Here is just a small sampling of implausible Bible stories.



The story of creation



A totally illogical Biblical story is the story of creation. It is

obviously

pure fiction



Biblically, god created the world 5,000 to 10,000 years ago. Scientific
evidence indicates the Universe, as we now know it, began more than 14
BILLION years ago or more.



In the Bible, the Universe is a firmament and the Earth is a fixed (not
to
mention flat) Planet and the Son, Moon and other planets revolve around

the

earth. We now KNOW the Earth revolves around the Son and the Universe is
over 20 BILLION light years in diameter and is made up of trillions of

Stars

and Planets of which our planetary system is a very miniscule and
unimportant part.



In the Bible the earth is created in the first day, before the Son, Moon

and

Stars. Objective scientific evidence is that the Earth did not form until
approximately 10 BILLION YEARS after the beginning of the present
Universe
and after the formation of the Son, and many other stars.



The Creation of the World

Genesis







In the beginning of creation, when God made heaven and earth, the earth

was

without form and void, with darkness over the face of the abyss, and a
mighty wind that swept over the surface of the waters. God said, Let
there
be light, and there was light; and God saw that the light was good, and
he
separated light from darkness. He called the light day, and the darkness
night. So evening came, and morning came, the first day. God created
light
before he created the Sun and the Moon!



The Son is known to have existed long before the Earth; therefore the

earth

was not created before the Son. It is equally obvious that the writers
of
that time thought the World was the center the firmament and that they
had
no conception of the size and nature of the Universe. Everything beyond

the

Sun and Moon was considered to be gods Heaven


God said, Let there be a vault between the waters, to separate water from
water. So God made the vault, and separated the water under the vault
from
the water above it, and so it was; and God called the vault heaven.

Evening

came, and morning came, a second day.


God said; Let the waters under heaven be gathered into one place, so that
dry land may appear; and so it was. God called the dry land earth, and
the
gathering of the waters he called seas; and God saw that it was good.
Then
God said, Let the earth produce fresh growth, let there be on the earth
plants bearing seed, fruit-trees bearing fruit each with seed according
to
its kind. So it was; the earth yielded fresh growth, plants bearing seed
according to their kind and trees bearing fruit each with seed according

to

its king; and God saw that it was good. Evening came, and morning came, a
third day.



And this good and loving God created animals that eat other animals (and
man) and poisonous plants and snakes that kill!


God said, Let there be lights in the vault of heaven to separate day from
night, and let them serve as signs both for festivals and for seasons and
years. Let them also shine in the vault of heaven to give light on earth.

So

it was; God made the two great lights, the greater to govern the day and

the

lesser to govern th