| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Bill" |
| Date: |
19 Sep 2005 06:59:52 PM |
| Object: |
FOUNDATION OF RELIGIONS |
I keep hearing people quoting from the Bible and other ancient religious
documents as though it was proof or a fact.
There is NO objective verifiable evidence that any of the Bibles are the
word of ANY God. There is no objective verifiable evidence that the stories
in the Bibles are historical fact. In fact many of the stories in the Bibles
are obviously impossible and implausible nonsense.
There is NO objective evidence that the Bibles are the word of ANY God and
if they are he was truly a confused, erratic and inconsistent story teller.
There are no originals in existence. They are all hand copies and
modifications of copies of copies etc. with alterations, additions and
deletions to suite the transcribers motives. The printing press was not even
invented until the 15 Th. Century and the latest Bible copies date back
1,400 years and more before the invention of the printing press. The present
book of Bibles was assembled from numerous documents chosen by self
interested church leaders. They are not all or even most of the ancient
religious documents.
Here is a list of just the ENGLISH translations of these old and
unauthenticated Bibles. Which are the correct ones? And were the copies they
translated from accurate translations of the originals? NO originals exist.
NO ONE knows.
The evidence is that these Bibles, written and copied by over 150 men over a
period of over 2500 years are nothing but a combination of history, myths,
folklore and legends.
It is very likely that these ancient documents were doctored and altered to
enhance the power of the clerics of the time. Many of these writings come
from fraud, interpolations, myths and hearsay.
There is NO objective evidence that they are accurate history or the words
of any God.
There are eighteen different English translations alone:
New American Standard
New International Version
Amplified Bible
New Living Translation
King James Version
Contemporary English Version
New King James Version
21 St. Century King James Version
New International Version
American Standard Version
Holman Christian Version
New Life Version
Darby Translation
Young's Literal Translation
New International Readers Version
World English Bible
New Revised Standard Version
The Jerusalem Bible
Religion built on the stories in the Bibles is a religion built on myths and
quick sand.
There are a plentitude of different religious documents that proclaim the
validity of various Gods. Which, if any, are correct?
Major sacred texts and documents;
Baha'i Sacrid writtings
Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon
The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.
No originals of the old or new testaments exist.
The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints
The Analects - Confuscianism
The Eddas and Sagas - Icelandic beliefs
Wicca - Neo paganism of Greece and Rome over the centuries
Bhagavgita and Rig Veda - Hinduism
Qur'an - Islam
The Tanakh - Jewism
Tao-Te-Ching - Taoism
Nag Hammadi - Gnostics
Zhuan Falun - Falun Gong
Of all these different Gods and belief systems which is the true one, if
any, and which are fakes? Non of these documents are objective evidence.
They are all documents written, hand copied, modified and further copied,
over the centuries, by errant men with their own personal and selfish
motivations. There is no way to determine authenticity or accuracy. The
objective evidence is that they are a mixture of history, myth, folklore and
legends.
Man can directly communicate essentially with the whole world via TV, the
Internet, Mobile Phone and Radio. If there is a REAL God, why does he not
announce to the whole world, from his heaven, that he is the real God and
all the others are fakes. And tell us clearly and directly what he expects
from us instead of using hundreds of vague, ancient and contradictory
documents compiled by dozens of different religions.
The objective evidence is that God did not create man but that man created
Gods (and the religious documents).
.
|
|
| User: "Carl Rooker" |
|
| Title: Re: FOUNDATION OF RELIGIONS |
20 Sep 2005 12:22:42 AM |
|
|
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:%SDXe.4808$Ew4.3011@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
I keep hearing people quoting from the Bible and other ancient religious
documents as though it was proof or a fact.
There is NO objective verifiable evidence that any of the Bibles are the
word of ANY God. There is no objective verifiable evidence that the
stories
in the Bibles are historical fact. In fact many of the stories in the
Bibles
are obviously impossible and implausible nonsense.
There is NO objective evidence that the Bibles are the word of ANY God and
if they are he was truly a confused, erratic and inconsistent story
teller.
There are no originals in existence. They are all hand copies and
modifications of copies of copies etc. with alterations, additions and
deletions to suite the transcribers motives. The printing press was not
even
invented until the 15 Th. Century and the latest Bible copies date back
1,400 years and more before the invention of the printing press. The
present
book of Bibles was assembled from numerous documents chosen by self
interested church leaders. They are not all or even most of the ancient
religious documents.
Here is a list of just the ENGLISH translations of these old and
unauthenticated Bibles. Which are the correct ones? And were the copies
they
translated from accurate translations of the originals? NO originals
exist.
NO ONE knows.
The evidence is that these Bibles, written and copied by over 150 men over
a
period of over 2500 years are nothing but a combination of history, myths,
folklore and legends.
It is very likely that these ancient documents were doctored and altered
to
enhance the power of the clerics of the time. Many of these writings come
from fraud, interpolations, myths and hearsay.
So far you make charges with nothing to back them up.
There is NO objective evidence that they are accurate history or the
words
of any God.
There are eighteen different English translations alone:
New American Standard
New International Version
Amplified Bible
New Living Translation
King James Version
Contemporary English Version
New King James Version
21 St. Century King James Version
New International Version
American Standard Version
Holman Christian Version
New Life Version
Darby Translation
Young's Literal Translation
New International Readers Version
World English Bible
New Revised Standard Version
The Jerusalem Bible
So what? Except that a few of these Bible translations add what we call the
apocrapha, they do not say anything substantially different than the others.
They do say the same things in different ways, because of the target
audiance, or the method of translation, but they are in complete agreement
with each other on the central issues of Christianity. They are all the
correct ones.
So, your continued tirade only shows your ignorance of the issues involved,
and not any structured thought of your own philosophy.
God Bless
Carl
.
|
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| User: "Bill" |
|
| Title: Re: FOUNDATION OF RELIGIONS |
20 Sep 2005 02:34:28 PM |
|
|
"Carl Rooker" <rookerc@dnx.net> wrote in message
news:1127175793.707992@w9.dnx.net...
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:%SDXe.4808$Ew4.3011@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
I keep hearing people quoting from the Bible and other ancient religious
documents as though it was proof or a fact.
There is NO objective verifiable evidence that any of the Bibles are the
word of ANY God. There is no objective verifiable evidence that the
stories
in the Bibles are historical fact. In fact many of the stories in the
Bibles
are obviously impossible and implausible nonsense.
There is NO objective evidence that the Bibles are the word of ANY God
and
if they are he was truly a confused, erratic and inconsistent story
teller.
There are no originals in existence. They are all hand copies and
modifications of copies of copies etc. with alterations, additions and
deletions to suite the transcribers motives. The printing press was not
even
invented until the 15 Th. Century and the latest Bible copies date back
1,400 years and more before the invention of the printing press. The
present
book of Bibles was assembled from numerous documents chosen by self
interested church leaders. They are not all or even most of the ancient
religious documents.
Here is a list of just the ENGLISH translations of these old and
unauthenticated Bibles. Which are the correct ones? And were the copies
they
translated from accurate translations of the originals? NO originals
exist.
NO ONE knows.
The evidence is that these Bibles, written and copied by over 150 men
over
a
period of over 2500 years are nothing but a combination of history,
myths,
folklore and legends.
It is very likely that these ancient documents were doctored and altered
to
enhance the power of the clerics of the time. Many of these writings come
from fraud, interpolations, myths and hearsay.
So far you make charges with nothing to back them up.
There is NO objective evidence that they are accurate history or the
words
of any God.
There are eighteen different English translations alone:
New American Standard
New International Version
Amplified Bible
New Living Translation
King James Version
Contemporary English Version
New King James Version
21 St. Century King James Version
New International Version
American Standard Version
Holman Christian Version
New Life Version
Darby Translation
Young's Literal Translation
New International Readers Version
World English Bible
New Revised Standard Version
The Jerusalem Bible
So what? Except that a few of these Bible translations add what we call
the
apocrapha, they do not say anything substantially different than the
others.
They do say the same things in different ways, because of the target
audiance, or the method of translation, but they are in complete agreement
with each other on the central issues of Christianity. They are all the
correct ones.
So, your continued tirade only shows your ignorance of the issues
involved,
and not any structured thought of your own philosophy.
God Bless
Carl
As usual, you continue dodging the important issue and that is the lack of
any OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE
that the Bibles are the word of any God. Your Bibles are just a mixture of
history, fables and rediculous tales that are no
evidence of any real God.
Why should any sane person believe in these books of nonsense???
.
|
|
|
| User: "Peter Olcott" |
|
| Title: Re: FOUNDATION OF RELIGIONS |
20 Sep 2005 08:30:55 PM |
|
|
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:b4VXe.11870$pn2.7393@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
"Carl Rooker" <rookerc@dnx.net> wrote in message news:1127175793.707992@w9.dnx.net...
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:%SDXe.4808$Ew4.3011@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
I keep hearing people quoting from the Bible and other ancient religious
documents as though it was proof or a fact.
There is NO objective verifiable evidence that any of the Bibles are the
word of ANY God. There is no objective verifiable evidence that the
stories
in the Bibles are historical fact. In fact many of the stories in the
Bibles
are obviously impossible and implausible nonsense.
There is NO objective evidence that the Bibles are the word of ANY God and
if they are he was truly a confused, erratic and inconsistent story
teller.
There are no originals in existence. They are all hand copies and
modifications of copies of copies etc. with alterations, additions and
deletions to suite the transcribers motives. The printing press was not
even
invented until the 15 Th. Century and the latest Bible copies date back
1,400 years and more before the invention of the printing press. The
present
book of Bibles was assembled from numerous documents chosen by self
interested church leaders. They are not all or even most of the ancient
religious documents.
Here is a list of just the ENGLISH translations of these old and
unauthenticated Bibles. Which are the correct ones? And were the copies
they
translated from accurate translations of the originals? NO originals
exist.
NO ONE knows.
The evidence is that these Bibles, written and copied by over 150 men over
a
period of over 2500 years are nothing but a combination of history, myths,
folklore and legends.
It is very likely that these ancient documents were doctored and altered
to
enhance the power of the clerics of the time. Many of these writings come
from fraud, interpolations, myths and hearsay.
So far you make charges with nothing to back them up.
There is NO objective evidence that they are accurate history or the
words
of any God.
There are eighteen different English translations alone:
New American Standard
New International Version
Amplified Bible
New Living Translation
King James Version
Contemporary English Version
New King James Version
21 St. Century King James Version
New International Version
American Standard Version
Holman Christian Version
New Life Version
Darby Translation
Young's Literal Translation
New International Readers Version
World English Bible
New Revised Standard Version
The Jerusalem Bible
So what? Except that a few of these Bible translations add what we call the
apocrapha, they do not say anything substantially different than the others.
They do say the same things in different ways, because of the target
audiance, or the method of translation, but they are in complete agreement
with each other on the central issues of Christianity. They are all the
correct ones.
So, your continued tirade only shows your ignorance of the issues involved,
and not any structured thought of your own philosophy.
God Bless
Carl
As usual, you continue dodging the important issue and that is the lack of any OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE
that the Bibles are the word of any God. Your Bibles are just a mixture of history, fables and rediculous tales that are no
evidence of any real God.
Why should any sane person believe in these books of nonsense???
Both belief and disbelief are formal errors of reasoning known
as fallacies. The truth about religion is available to all whom
seek it, and no beliefs are required. Look in to Zen Buddhist Satori.
Its the same truth the every religion is professing, its just that with
Zen there are no beliefs required, and the proof is incontrovertible.
.
|
|
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| User: "Bill" |
|
| Title: Re: FOUNDATION OF RELIGIONS |
23 Sep 2005 11:58:29 PM |
|
|
"Peter Olcott" <olcott@att.net> wrote in message
news:4k_Xe.24993$UI.184@okepread05...
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:b4VXe.11870$pn2.7393@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
"Carl Rooker" <rookerc@dnx.net> wrote in message
news:1127175793.707992@w9.dnx.net...
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:%SDXe.4808$Ew4.3011@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
I keep hearing people quoting from the Bible and other ancient
religious
documents as though it was proof or a fact.
There is NO objective verifiable evidence that any of the Bibles are
the
word of ANY God. There is no objective verifiable evidence that the
stories
in the Bibles are historical fact. In fact many of the stories in the
Bibles
are obviously impossible and implausible nonsense.
There is NO objective evidence that the Bibles are the word of ANY God
and
if they are he was truly a confused, erratic and inconsistent story
teller.
There are no originals in existence. They are all hand copies and
modifications of copies of copies etc. with alterations, additions and
deletions to suite the transcribers motives. The printing press was not
even
invented until the 15 Th. Century and the latest Bible copies date back
1,400 years and more before the invention of the printing press. The
present
book of Bibles was assembled from numerous documents chosen by self
interested church leaders. They are not all or even most of the ancient
religious documents.
Here is a list of just the ENGLISH translations of these old and
unauthenticated Bibles. Which are the correct ones? And were the copies
they
translated from accurate translations of the originals? NO originals
exist.
NO ONE knows.
The evidence is that these Bibles, written and copied by over 150 men
over
a
period of over 2500 years are nothing but a combination of history,
myths,
folklore and legends.
It is very likely that these ancient documents were doctored and
altered
to
enhance the power of the clerics of the time. Many of these writings
come
from fraud, interpolations, myths and hearsay.
So far you make charges with nothing to back them up.
There is NO objective evidence that they are accurate history or the
words
of any God.
There are eighteen different English translations alone:
New American Standard
New International Version
Amplified Bible
New Living Translation
King James Version
Contemporary English Version
New King James Version
21 St. Century King James Version
New International Version
American Standard Version
Holman Christian Version
New Life Version
Darby Translation
Young's Literal Translation
New International Readers Version
World English Bible
New Revised Standard Version
The Jerusalem Bible
So what? Except that a few of these Bible translations add what we call
the
apocrapha, they do not say anything substantially different than the
others.
They do say the same things in different ways, because of the target
audiance, or the method of translation, but they are in complete
agreement
with each other on the central issues of Christianity. They are all the
correct ones.
So, your continued tirade only shows your ignorance of the issues
involved,
and not any structured thought of your own philosophy.
God Bless
Carl
As usual, you continue dodging the important issue and that is the lack
of any OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE
that the Bibles are the word of any God. Your Bibles are just a mixture
of history, fables and rediculous tales that are no
evidence of any real God.
Why should any sane person believe in these books of nonsense???
Both belief and disbelief are formal errors of reasoning known
as fallacies. The truth about religion is available to all whom
seek it, and no beliefs are required. Look in to Zen Buddhist Satori.
Its the same truth the every religion is professing, its just that with
Zen there are no beliefs required, and the proof is incontrovertible.
Pure nonsensical babble. This is not objective verifiable evidence or proof
of anything other than you babble on with nonsense.
.
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
|
| Title: Re: FOUNDATION OF RELIGIONS |
24 Sep 2005 11:32:19 AM |
|
|
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:XC0Ze.1196$op4.358@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
"Peter Olcott" <olcott@att.net> wrote in message
news:4k_Xe.24993$UI.184@okepread05...
Both belief and disbelief are formal errors of reasoning known
as fallacies. The truth about religion is available to all whom
seek it, and no beliefs are required. Look in to Zen Buddhist Satori.
Its the same truth the every religion is professing, its just that with
Zen there are no beliefs required, and the proof is incontrovertible.
Pure nonsensical babble. This is not objective verifiable evidence or
proof of anything other than you babble on with nonsense.
Everything anybody posts here is "pure nonsensical babble" to you, Bill.
That's why you never post anything in support of anyone. Peter merely needs
to define his terms to make perfect sense.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: FOUNDATION OF RELIGIONS |
23 Sep 2005 01:29:00 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:30:55 -0500, "Peter Olcott" <olcott@att.net>
wrote:
:
Both belief and disbelief are formal errors of reasoning known
as fallacies. The truth about religion is available to all whom
seek it, and no beliefs are required. Look in to Zen Buddhist Satori.
Its the same truth the every religion is professing, its just that with
Zen there are no beliefs required, and the proof is incontrovertible.
And you believe that, do you?
Or not?
.
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| User: "Tink" |
|
| Title: Re: FOUNDATION OF RELIGIONS |
20 Sep 2005 08:31:10 PM |
|
|
Bill wrote:
"Carl Rooker" <rookerc@dnx.net> wrote in message
news:1127175793.707992@w9.dnx.net...
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:%SDXe.4808$Ew4.3011@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
I keep hearing people quoting from the Bible and other ancient religious
documents as though it was proof or a fact.
There is NO objective verifiable evidence that any of the Bibles are the
word of ANY God. There is no objective verifiable evidence that the
stories
in the Bibles are historical fact. In fact many of the stories in the
Bibles
are obviously impossible and implausible nonsense.
There is NO objective evidence that the Bibles are the word of ANY God
and
if they are he was truly a confused, erratic and inconsistent story
teller.
There are no originals in existence. They are all hand copies and
modifications of copies of copies etc. with alterations, additions and
deletions to suite the transcribers motives. The printing press was not
even
invented until the 15 Th. Century and the latest Bible copies date back
1,400 years and more before the invention of the printing press. The
present
book of Bibles was assembled from numerous documents chosen by self
interested church leaders. They are not all or even most of the ancient
religious documents.
Here is a list of just the ENGLISH translations of these old and
unauthenticated Bibles. Which are the correct ones? And were the copies
they
translated from accurate translations of the originals? NO originals
exist.
NO ONE knows.
The evidence is that these Bibles, written and copied by over 150 men
over
a
period of over 2500 years are nothing but a combination of history,
myths,
folklore and legends.
It is very likely that these ancient documents were doctored and altered
to
enhance the power of the clerics of the time. Many of these writings come
from fraud, interpolations, myths and hearsay.
So far you make charges with nothing to back them up.
There is NO objective evidence that they are accurate history or the
words
of any God.
There are eighteen different English translations alone:
New American Standard
New International Version
Amplified Bible
New Living Translation
King James Version
Contemporary English Version
New King James Version
21 St. Century King James Version
New International Version
American Standard Version
Holman Christian Version
New Life Version
Darby Translation
Young's Literal Translation
New International Readers Version
World English Bible
New Revised Standard Version
The Jerusalem Bible
So what? Except that a few of these Bible translations add what we call
the
apocrapha, they do not say anything substantially different than the
others.
They do say the same things in different ways, because of the target
audiance, or the method of translation, but they are in complete agreement
with each other on the central issues of Christianity. They are all the
correct ones.
So, your continued tirade only shows your ignorance of the issues
involved,
and not any structured thought of your own philosophy.
God Bless
Carl
As usual, you continue dodging the important issue and that is the lack of
any OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE
that the Bibles are the word of any God. Your Bibles are just a mixture of
history, fables and rediculous tales that are no
evidence of any real God.
Why should any sane person believe in these books of nonsense???
Sane people DON'T believe in that *****.
--
Skydivers don't knock on death's door; they ring the bell and run
away... It really pisses him off.
The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS# 8808
EAC Chairman, Division of Skydiving and Sushi consumption.
.
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| User: "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim" |
|
| Title: Re: FOUNDATION OF RELIGIONS |
20 Sep 2005 03:28:29 AM |
|
|
So, your continued tirade only shows your ignorance of the issues
involved,
and not any structured thought of your own philosophy.
God Bless
Carl
well, at least Bill doesn't worship a MASS MURDERER who has confessed to
MURDERING almost every living thing on this planet.
.
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| User: "Peter Olcott" |
|
| Title: Re: FOUNDATION OF RELIGIONS |
19 Sep 2005 10:11:47 PM |
|
|
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:%SDXe.4808$Ew4.3011@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
I keep hearing people quoting from the Bible and other ancient religious documents as though it was proof or a fact.
Study Zen Buddhism, achieve Satori, and then you
will have the completely verifiable fact of the truth
of religions. With Zen you don't have to believe a
single thing that can not be directly proven immediately.
There is NO objective verifiable evidence that any of the Bibles are the word of ANY God. There is no objective verifiable
evidence that the stories in the Bibles are historical fact. In fact many of the stories in the Bibles are obviously impossible
and implausible nonsense.
There is NO objective evidence that the Bibles are the word of ANY God and if they are he was truly a confused, erratic and
inconsistent story teller.
There are no originals in existence. They are all hand copies and modifications of copies of copies etc. with alterations,
additions and deletions to suite the transcribers motives. The printing press was not even invented until the 15 Th. Century and
the latest Bible copies date back 1,400 years and more before the invention of the printing press. The present book of Bibles was
assembled from numerous documents chosen by self interested church leaders. They are not all or even most of the ancient religious
documents.
Here is a list of just the ENGLISH translations of these old and unauthenticated Bibles. Which are the correct ones? And were the
copies they translated from accurate translations of the originals? NO originals exist. NO ONE knows.
The evidence is that these Bibles, written and copied by over 150 men over a period of over 2500 years are nothing but a
combination of history, myths, folklore and legends.
It is very likely that these ancient documents were doctored and altered to enhance the power of the clerics of the time. Many of
these writings come from fraud, interpolations, myths and hearsay.
There is NO objective evidence that they are accurate history or the words of any God.
There are eighteen different English translations alone:
New American Standard
New International Version
Amplified Bible
New Living Translation
King James Version
Contemporary English Version
New King James Version
21 St. Century King James Version
New International Version
American Standard Version
Holman Christian Version
New Life Version
Darby Translation
Young's Literal Translation
New International Readers Version
World English Bible
New Revised Standard Version
The Jerusalem Bible
Religion built on the stories in the Bibles is a religion built on myths and quick sand.
There are a plentitude of different religious documents that proclaim the validity of various Gods. Which, if any, are correct?
Major sacred texts and documents;
Baha'i Sacrid writtings
Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon
The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.
No originals of the old or new testaments exist.
The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints
The Analects - Confuscianism
The Eddas and Sagas - Icelandic beliefs
Wicca - Neo paganism of Greece and Rome over the centuries
Bhagavgita and Rig Veda - Hinduism
Qur'an - Islam
The Tanakh - Jewism
Tao-Te-Ching - Taoism
Nag Hammadi - Gnostics
Zhuan Falun - Falun Gong
Of all these different Gods and belief systems which is the true one, if any, and which are fakes? Non of these documents are
objective evidence. They are all documents written, hand copied, modified and further copied, over the centuries, by errant men
with their own personal and selfish motivations. There is no way to determine authenticity or accuracy. The objective evidence is
that they are a mixture of history, myth, folklore and legends.
Man can directly communicate essentially with the whole world via TV, the Internet, Mobile Phone and Radio. If there is a REAL
God, why does he not announce to the whole world, from his heaven, that he is the real God and all the others are fakes. And tell
us clearly and directly what he expects from us instead of using hundreds of vague, ancient and contradictory documents compiled
by dozens of different religions.
The objective evidence is that God did not create man but that man created Gods (and the religious documents).
.
|
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
|
| Title: Re: FOUNDATION OF RELIGIONS |
21 Sep 2005 10:29:49 AM |
|
|
"Peter Olcott" <olcott@att.net> wrote in message
news:oIGXe.24907$UI.1451@okepread05...
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:%SDXe.4808$Ew4.3011@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
I keep hearing people quoting from the Bible and other ancient religious
documents as though it was proof or a fact.
Study Zen Buddhism, achieve Satori, and then you
will have the completely verifiable fact of the truth
of religions. With Zen you don't have to believe a
single thing that can not be directly proven immediately.
Anything that needs "achieving" is somewhat suspect as it requires
prerequisites which are not under the control of the achiever, such as
talent, intelligence etc. etc.
Only the Christian religion requires no prerequisite and its goals are
attainable by all. It's goals is for one to become a loving, caring person,
'a Mensch', a humane and emotionally alive human being. See below contrast
with the uncaring and emotionally dead.
Pastor Frank
Christ in Mt:11:17: And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not
danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: FOUNDATION OF RELIGIONS |
22 Sep 2005 05:21:10 AM |
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"Pastor Frank" <PastorFrank@christfirst.edu> wrote in
news:446a7$433208d2$d1d894ea$27229@PRIMUS.CA:
Stop posting in mine and/or Schornak's
names, ***** Foot. It's not funny!!!
You should stop posting altogether. You are capable of far better, and of
doing it in your own name.
Stay away from Christians, as we have a certain obligation towards people
like you, fake Pastor Frank. "If a man also lieth with mankind, as he
lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall
surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them" (Leviticus 20:13).
Where is Flevoland?
Please disregard the fake Pastor Frank.
--
Pastor Frank Bernhard Schornak
Broomleigh Evangelische Kirche GmbH (Zurich)
Hardenbergstr. 14, D-Augsburg 86165, Germany
+ 49 - 0821 - 729 87 83
http://www.pastorfrank.broomleigh.com/
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| User: "Peter Olcott" |
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| Title: Re: FOUNDATION OF RELIGIONS |
22 Sep 2005 01:57:25 PM |
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"Pastor Frank" <PastorFrank@christfirst.edu> wrote in message news:446a7$433208d2$d1d894ea$27229@PRIMUS.CA...
"Peter Olcott" <olcott@att.net> wrote in message news:oIGXe.24907$UI.1451@okepread05...
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:%SDXe.4808$Ew4.3011@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
I keep hearing people quoting from the Bible and other ancient religious documents as though it was proof or a fact.
Study Zen Buddhism, achieve Satori, and then you
will have the completely verifiable fact of the truth
of religions. With Zen you don't have to believe a
single thing that can not be directly proven immediately.
Anything that needs "achieving" is somewhat suspect as it requires prerequisites which are not under the control of the
achiever, such as talent, intelligence etc. etc.
Only the Christian religion requires no prerequisite and its goals are attainable by all. It's goals is for one to become a
loving, caring person, 'a Mensch', a humane and emotionally alive human being. See below contrast with the uncaring and
emotionally dead.
Satori is called "union with God" in Christian mysticism.
Very few ever achieve it. All it takes is diligence, and an open mind.
After this point one is no longer merely a believer in God, but a
KNOWER of God.
Pastor Frank
Christ in Mt:11:17: And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not
lamented.
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: FOUNDATION OF RELIGIONS |
23 Sep 2005 04:03:29 AM |
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"Peter Olcott" <olcott@att.net> wrote in message
news:9LyYe.25182$UI.7179@okepread05...
"Pastor Frank" <PastorFrank@christfirst.edu> wrote in message
news:446a7$433208d2$d1d894ea$27229@PRIMUS.CA...
"Peter Olcott" <olcott@att.net> wrote in message
news:oIGXe.24907$UI.1451@okepread05...
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:%SDXe.4808$Ew4.3011@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
I keep hearing people quoting from the Bible and other ancient
religious documents as though it was proof or a fact.
Study Zen Buddhism, achieve Satori, and then you
will have the completely verifiable fact of the truth
of religions. With Zen you don't have to believe a
single thing that can not be directly proven immediately.
Anything that needs "achieving" is somewhat suspect as it requires
prerequisites which are not under the control >> of the achiever, such as
talent, intelligence etc. etc.
Only the Christian religion requires no prerequisite and its goals are
attainable by all. It's goals is for one to become a loving, caring
person, 'a Mensch', a humane and emotionally alive human being. See below
contrast with the uncaring and emotionally dead.
Satori is called "union with God" in Christian mysticism.
Very few ever achieve it. All it takes is diligence, and an open mind.
After this point one is no longer merely a believer in God, but a
KNOWER of God.
Yes. Sounds good doesn't it. It's like chanting a mantra. But what does
it mean? Maya explains what "union with God" means.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: FOUNDATION OF RELIGIONS |
23 Sep 2005 01:29:54 AM |
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On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:57:25 -0500, "Peter Olcott" <olcott@att.net>
wrote:
"Pastor Frank" <PastorFrank@christfirst.edu> wrote in message news:446a7$433208d2$d1d894ea$27229@PRIMUS.CA...
"Peter Olcott" <olcott@att.net> wrote in message news:oIGXe.24907$UI.1451@okepread05...
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:%SDXe.4808$Ew4.3011@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
I keep hearing people quoting from the Bible and other ancient religious documents as though it was proof or a fact.
Study Zen Buddhism, achieve Satori, and then you
will have the completely verifiable fact of the truth
of religions. With Zen you don't have to believe a
single thing that can not be directly proven immediately.
Anything that needs "achieving" is somewhat suspect as it requires prerequisites which are not under the control of the
achiever, such as talent, intelligence etc. etc.
Only the Christian religion requires no prerequisite and its goals are attainable by all. It's goals is for one to become a
loving, caring person, 'a Mensch', a humane and emotionally alive human being. See below contrast with the uncaring and
emotionally dead.
Satori is called "union with God" in Christian mysticism.
Very few ever achieve it. All it takes is diligence, and an open mind.
After this point one is no longer merely a believer in God, but a
KNOWER of God.
Another step up in level of self-delusion.
Pastor Frank
Christ in Mt:11:17: And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not
lamented.
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| User: "Witziges Rätsel" |
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| Title: Re: FOUNDATION OF RELIGIONS |
19 Sep 2005 10:57:40 PM |
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Study Zen Buddhism, achieve Satori, and then you
will have the completely verifiable fact of the truth
of religions. With Zen you don't have to believe a
single thing that can not be directly proven immediately.
I always fall asleep when I meditate. By the way,
"Buddha" is the Sanskrit word for "woke up".
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| User: "Peter Olcott" |
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| Title: Re: FOUNDATION OF RELIGIONS |
20 Sep 2005 08:25:03 PM |
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"Witziges Rätsel" <zer@roer.com> wrote in message news:83780$432f41ae$41e50d2f$13886@DIALUPUSA.NET...
Study Zen Buddhism, achieve Satori, and then you
will have the completely verifiable fact of the truth
of religions. With Zen you don't have to believe a
single thing that can not be directly proven immediately.
I always fall asleep when I meditate. By the way,
"Buddha" is the Sanskrit word for "woke up".
There is only one thing about Zen Buddhism that counts,
and that is Satori. Directly Experience this one thing, and
you will know the underlying truth of all religion.
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: FOUNDATION OF RELIGIONS |
22 Sep 2005 12:44:27 AM |
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"Peter Olcott" <olcott@att.net> wrote in message
news:Ae_Xe.24991$UI.1004@okepread05...
"Witziges Rätsel" <zer@roer.com> wrote in message
news:83780$432f41ae$41e50d2f$13886@DIALUPUSA.NET...
?????? wrote:
Study Zen Buddhism, achieve Satori, and then you
will have the completely verifiable fact of the truth
of religions. With Zen you don't have to believe a
single thing that can not be directly proven immediately.
I always fall asleep when I meditate. By the way,
"Buddha" is the Sanskrit word for "woke up".
There is only one thing about Zen Buddhism that counts,
and that is Satori. Directly Experience this one thing, and
you will know the underlying truth of all religion.
Yes. That's the urban legend. However the "underlying truth of all
religion" is much more clearly expressed in Hindu maya philosophy. No
super-sensual experiences are required, nor necessary.
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| User: "Peter Olcott" |
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| Title: Re: FOUNDATION OF RELIGIONS |
22 Sep 2005 01:36:48 PM |
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"Pastor Frank" <PastorFrank@christfirst.edu> wrote in message news:8d9b7$433208e2$d1d894ea$27229@PRIMUS.CA...
"Peter Olcott" <olcott@att.net> wrote in message news:Ae_Xe.24991$UI.1004@okepread05...
"Witziges Rätsel" <zer@roer.com> wrote in message news:83780$432f41ae$41e50d2f$13886@DIALUPUSA.NET...
?????? wrote:
Study Zen Buddhism, achieve Satori, and then you
will have the completely verifiable fact of the truth
of religions. With Zen you don't have to believe a
single thing that can not be directly proven immediately.
I always fall asleep when I meditate. By the way,
"Buddha" is the Sanskrit word for "woke up".
There is only one thing about Zen Buddhism that counts,
and that is Satori. Directly Experience this one thing, and
you will know the underlying truth of all religion.
Yes. That's the urban legend. However the "underlying truth of all religion" is much more clearly expressed in Hindu maya
philosophy. No super-sensual experiences are required, nor necessary.
The Hindu equivalent of Satori is known a Moksha.
There is also a Christian, Jewish, and Pagan equivalent of Satori.
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: FOUNDATION OF RELIGIONS |
23 Sep 2005 03:50:33 AM |
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"Peter Olcott" <olcott@att.net> wrote in message
news:KtyYe.25179$UI.6289@okepread05...
"Pastor Frank" <PastorFrank@christfirst.edu> wrote in message
news:8d9b7$433208e2$d1d894ea$27229@PRIMUS.CA...
"Peter Olcott" <olcott@att.net> wrote in message
news:Ae_Xe.24991$UI.1004@okepread05...
"Witziges Rätsel" <zer@roer.com> wrote in message
news:83780$432f41ae$41e50d2f$13886@DIALUPUSA.NET...
?????? wrote:
Study Zen Buddhism, achieve Satori, and then you
will have the completely verifiable fact of the truth
of religions. With Zen you don't have to believe a
single thing that can not be directly proven immediately.
I always fall asleep when I meditate. By the way,
"Buddha" is the Sanskrit word for "woke up".
There is only one thing about Zen Buddhism that counts,
and that is Satori. Directly Experience this one thing, and
you will know the underlying truth of all religion.
Yes. That's the urban legend. However the "underlying truth of all
religion" is much more clearly expressed in Hindu maya philosophy. No
super-sensual experiences are required, nor necessary.
The Hindu equivalent of Satori is known a Moksha.
There is also a Christian, Jewish, and Pagan equivalent of Satori.
That doesn't explain what you are talking about. The Christian
equivalent of Satori is love AKA agape, which is easier to understand. But
that doesn't explain the underlying structure / nature of religion, only
maya does.
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| User: "Peter Olcott" |
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| Title: Re: FOUNDATION OF RELIGIONS |
22 Sep 2005 01:53:56 PM |
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"Pastor Frank" <PastorFrank@christfirst.edu> wrote in message news:8d9b7$433208e2$d1d894ea$27229@PRIMUS.CA...
"Peter Olcott" <olcott@att.net> wrote in message news:Ae_Xe.24991$UI.1004@okepread05...
"Witziges Rätsel" <zer@roer.com> wrote in message news:83780$432f41ae$41e50d2f$13886@DIALUPUSA.NET...
?????? wrote:
Study Zen Buddhism, achieve Satori, and then you
will have the completely verifiable fact of the truth
of religions. With Zen you don't have to believe a
single thing that can not be directly proven immediately.
I always fall asleep when I meditate. By the way,
"Buddha" is the Sanskrit word for "woke up".
There is only one thing about Zen Buddhism that counts,
and that is Satori. Directly Experience this one thing, and
you will know the underlying truth of all religion.
Yes. That's the urban legend. However the "underlying truth of all religion" is much more clearly expressed in Hindu maya
philosophy. No super-sensual experiences are required, nor necessary.
When I am saying directly experienced it is in the sense of being
a direct witness to the truth. It is like after seeing an alien abduction,
you would KNOW that extraterrestrials exist. AFTER experiencing
Satori you KNOW the truth of religion.
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: FOUNDATION OF RELIGIONS |
23 Sep 2005 03:58:42 AM |
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"Peter Olcott" <olcott@att.net> wrote in message
news:SHyYe.25181$UI.16771@okepread05...
"Pastor Frank" <PastorFrank@christfirst.edu> wrote in message
news:8d9b7$433208e2$d1d894ea$27229@PRIMUS.CA...
"Peter Olcott" <olcott@att.net> wrote in message
news:Ae_Xe.24991$UI.1004@okepread05...
"Witziges Rätsel" <zer@roer.com> wrote in message
news:83780$432f41ae$41e50d2f$13886@DIALUPUSA.NET...
?????? wrote:
Study Zen Buddhism, achieve Satori, and then you
will have the completely verifiable fact of the truth
of religions. With Zen you don't have to believe a
single thing that can not be directly proven immediately.
I always fall asleep when I meditate. By the way,
"Buddha" is the Sanskrit word for "woke up".
There is only one thing about Zen Buddhism that counts,
and that is Satori. Directly Experience this one thing, and
you will know the underlying truth of all religion.
Yes. That's the urban legend. However the "underlying truth of all
religion" is much more clearly expressed in Hindu maya philosophy. No
super-sensual experiences are required, nor necessary.
When I am saying directly experienced it is in the sense of being
a direct witness to the truth. It is like after seeing an alien abduction,
you would KNOW that extraterrestrials exist. AFTER experiencing
Satori you KNOW the truth of religion.
The word Satori has no known definition. The Christian equivalent may be
agape, which can be losely translated as 'love'. I think you are chanting a
mantra just because it sounds good, but unable to put a meaning to the word
Satori yourself. Check out maya and compare.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: FOUNDATION OF RELIGIONS |
23 Sep 2005 01:28:11 AM |
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On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:53:56 -0500, "Peter Olcott" <olcott@att.net>
wrote:
"Pastor Frank" <PastorFrank@christfirst.edu> wrote in message news:8d9b7$433208e2$d1d894ea$27229@PRIMUS.CA...
"Peter Olcott" <olcott@att.net> wrote in message news:Ae_Xe.24991$UI.1004@okepread05...
"Witziges R?el" <zer@roer.com> wrote in message news:83780$432f41ae$41e50d2f$13886@DIALUPUSA.NET...
?????? wrote:
Study Zen Buddhism, achieve Satori, and then you
will have the completely verifiable fact of the truth
of religions. With Zen you don't have to believe a
single thing that can not be directly proven immediately.
I always fall asleep when I meditate. By the way,
"Buddha" is the Sanskrit word for "woke up".
There is only one thing about Zen Buddhism that counts,
and that is Satori. Directly Experience this one thing, and
you will know the underlying truth of all religion.
Yes. That's the urban legend. However the "underlying truth of all religion" is much more clearly expressed in Hindu maya
philosophy. No super-sensual experiences are required, nor necessary.
When I am saying directly experienced it is in the sense of being
a direct witness to the truth. It is like after seeing an alien abduction,
you would KNOW that extraterrestrials exist. AFTER experiencing
Satori you KNOW the truth of religion.
Alien abduction "truth" = psychotic delusion
You say that "Satori" is the same.
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| User: "Chris" |
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| Title: Re: FOUNDATION OF RELIGIONS |
21 Sep 2005 09:54:58 AM |
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I totally agree with this post.
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:%SDXe.4808$Ew4.3011@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
I keep hearing people quoting from the Bible and other ancient religious
documents as though it was proof or a fact.
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: FOUNDATION OF RELIGIONS |
19 Sep 2005 07:44:26 PM |
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On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:59:52 -0400, "Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
I keep hearing people quoting from the Bible and other ancient religious
documents as though it was proof or a fact.
They do that, but actually it's all about mutually granted premises:
fellow believers can convince each other by quoting the bible.
But they know we don't grant the bible the same kind of authority they
do. So citing it to us as proof of anything is both silly and a waste
of time. After all, who are they trying to convince? Yet when this is
pointed out they get offended - which IMO is a pretence because they
know they can't use it to convince us.
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| User: "skyeyes" |
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| Title: Re: FOUNDATION OF RELIGIONS |
20 Sep 2005 08:46:47 PM |
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Christopher A. Lee wrote:
But they know we don't grant the bible the same kind of authority they
do. So citing it to us as proof of anything is both silly and a waste
of time. After all, who are they trying to convince? Yet when this is
pointed out they get offended - which IMO is a pretence because they
know they can't use it to convince us.
Actually, Chris, the Bible-quoters believe that just *hearing* the
Bible quoted will eventually cause unbelievers to believe. When I was
growing up fundie, they called it "seeding the Word." There's a verse
in the Bible - and I forget just where, right now - that says that the
Word of God will work in a nonbeliever's heart. That's why they keep
quoting it at us.
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: FOUNDATION OF RELIGIONS |
21 Sep 2005 01:04:15 PM |
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"skyeyes" <skyeyes@dakotacom.net> wrote in message
news:1127249207.094268.8130@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Christopher A. Lee wrote:
But they know we don't grant the bible the same kind of authority they
do. So citing it to us as proof of anything is both silly and a waste
of time. After all, who are they trying to convince? Yet when this is
pointed out they get offended - which IMO is a pretence because they
know they can't use it to convince us.
Actually, Chris, the Bible-quoters believe that just *hearing* the
Bible quoted will eventually cause unbelievers to believe. When I was
growing up fundie, they called it "seeding the Word." There's a verse
in the Bible - and I forget just where, right now - that says that the
Word of God will work in a nonbeliever's heart. That's why they keep
quoting it at us.
Hmm, doesn't seem to be working. I can't imagine why ;)
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: FOUNDATION OF RELIGIONS |
20 Sep 2005 09:10:00 PM |
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On 20 Sep 2005 13:46:47 -0700, "skyeyes" <skyeyes@dakotacom.net>
wrote:
Christopher A. Lee wrote:
But they know we don't grant the bible the same kind of authority they
do. So citing it to us as proof of anything is both silly and a waste
of time. After all, who are they trying to convince? Yet when this is
pointed out they get offended - which IMO is a pretence because they
know they can't use it to convince us.
Actually, Chris, the Bible-quoters believe that just *hearing* the
Bible quoted will eventually cause unbelievers to believe. When I was
growing up fundie, they called it "seeding the Word." There's a verse
in the Bible - and I forget just where, right now - that says that the
Word of God will work in a nonbeliever's heart. That's why they keep
quoting it at us.
Then they're stupid as well as rude.
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
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